The UK and Poland have agreed to deepen cooperation on air and missile defence and expand helicopter training links, as both countries look to strengthen their ability to counter airborne threats across NATO’s eastern flank.
The agreement was announced during a meeting in Downing Street between Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer and Polish President Karol Nawrocki, with the Ministry of Defence confirming that the two allies will explore closer collaboration on both training and future capability development.
As part of the arrangement, the UK and Poland will examine options for the joint development and procurement of new air and missile defence capabilities, alongside ways to encourage additional manufacturing capacity within Europe. The focus is on countering a broad range of aerial threats, including missiles and aircraft, amid rising concern over Russia’s long-term military posture. The two militaries will also increase the use of virtual and synthetic training environments to improve coordination between air defence forces. According to the Ministry of Defence, this approach is intended to enhance operational effectiveness while reducing the cost and risk associated with live-fire exercises. The work will sit within the UK-led NATO initiative Delivering Integrated Air and Missile Operational Networked Defences, known as DIAMOND.
Alongside air defence cooperation, the UK and Poland agreed to expand helicopter training links under NATO Flight Training Europe. From this summer, eight Polish military helicopter pilots will begin training in the UK, supported by two experienced Polish instructors who will be permanently based at RAF Shawbury for a full rotational tour. The pilots will undertake advanced helicopter training at RAF Shawbury, preparing them for operational roles flying attack helicopters. The Ministry of Defence said the move would deepen interoperability between the two forces and strengthen long-term cooperation.
Defence Secretary John Healey said the agreement reflected the growing defence relationship between London and Warsaw.
“The UK and Poland’s defence relationship has never been stronger. Standing strong on NATO’s eastern flank, Poland is a crucial ally for the UK in this era of rising threats,” he said. “This new cooperation we have announced today will see more joint training and integration between our two militaries.”
He added that the agreement was intended to reinforce European security in the face of Russian aggression.
“It is another example of how the UK and Poland are stepping up to defend Europe and face down the threat from Putin,” Healey said.
The Ministry of Defence noted that Poland is one of the UK’s closest military partners in eastern Europe, with more than 350 British personnel currently deployed in the country. British and Polish pilots are already operating together as part of NATO’s Eastern Sentry mission, which provides air policing and protection of Polish and allied airspace.
Poland buys new Kit a lot of it, we just think about it. Is the start of yet another project? lucky us.
Any update on CAMM MR?
Such a missile will be a real game changer for our Sky Sabre batteries and frigates.
It’s still alive as of DSEI25, so I think it’s progressing slowly and steadily.
I suspect this is it and that the DIP will include a commitment to CAMM-MR in principle even if it gets no funding.
As Leh said MBDA showed it at DSEI and the twin packing in mk41 is confirmed. I’ve still never seen it in a standalone canister though which is odd.
Morning TJ, wasn’t there also the quadpacked CAMM-ER? That would also add some masse and punch and could compete against the ESSM.
Would like to see an article on the Classic CAMM farm/6 launcher and if any developments with that. No new photos of the CAMM upgrade done on the T45s yet?
Be interesting to aee what Poland puts on its AH140s with what goes on the T31s with their CIP.
CAMM ER, MR and classic CAMM will make a good mix for all the frigates..if they each had 12 ExLS cells you could have 12 CAMM, 12 CAMM ER and 12 CAMM MR.. essentially if we put that that on each type 31 and 26 you would have a frigate that was a good secondary AAW ship.
Yes and if the Sky Sabre system could handle all three types that coukd be useful. With you on the secondly AAW ship. Even an upgraded T31 has potential there and the T26 could use the mk41for ER/MR. Not sure if the six farm vls can take the ER though I did see on an image of the Pakistani corvettes that their CAMM-ER appeared in a similar 6 farm format too.
As the front end of the missile is pretty much identical and the control of it won’t be the issue.
The issue is the range of the GIRAFFE radar.
Even that may not be such an issue as other data feeds could be used such as from E7 or P8 drones, satellites etc.
Sky Sabre should be able to handle all of the CAMM variants. It uses Rafael’s Modular Integrated C4I Air & Missile Defence System (MIC4AD) for its management system. This system is also used with Israel’s Iron Dome. Which can control the usual Tamir SAM, but I believe forms most of the management system used on the David’s Sling system.
ExLS as it stands isn’t long enough for either CAMM-ER or CAMM-MR.
It was designed around CAMM so it’s 1.2m too short for -ER, and I doubt it has the width for the CAMM-MR twin pack cell. It needs to be mk41, though self defence length would be enough.
I thought that was still all a bit up in the air to be honest, last article I read sort or said maybe maybe not as there is talk of an ExLs for the 4.2meter missiles. Although if it was as you say you could just have the longer missiles in mk41 launchers.
I’m sure it would be possible to build a drop-in canister for CAMM-ER like for ESSM, and equally possible to redesign ExLS to take the longer canisters,but ExLS as it stands won’t take it as is.
I’m more worried about that we have only ever seen CAMM-MR in Mk41, but the place where it would be really transformational is ashore as part of a ‘Sky Sabre-XR’ alongside Giraffe 4A.
If the Polish Narew system is maturing for their AH140s then maybe some of that tech could be migrated to the T31 or an AAW variant and or even GBAD?
Hasn’t this Anglo-Polish cooperation being going on for a while already? Needs a hurry on.
Bonkers suggestion, but do you reckon an extendable Saab Giraffe type radar could be added to the T31s as a backup? Big empty space rear port on the hangar.
If you use the planed mk41 32 cell VLS on the T31 and T26 with quad packed CAMM and twin packed CAMM MR that MBDA demonstrated at DSEI then, you can have 24XCAMM 24XCAMM ER and 16XCAMM MR.
That’s the same number of air to air missiles as a T45 although obviously lacking the ABM capability of Aster 30 and the radar.
We really missed a trick on t45 by not installing the mk41 VLS instead of the mushroom farm
All comes down to £££££
And
Availability in the end
If you wanted Mk41 on T45 the wouldn’t be able to fill the impending frigate gap.
Yep. A poor decision for lesser versatility. And was any cost comparison done? Not that the mk41s are entering RN “at pace” anyway. Surprised the T45 CAMM farm seems flush with the fore deck in a paddling pool arrangement, you’d think a higher raised position would be way more protective. And with the Classic CAMM blocks of 6, why not put another 2x2x6 down each side of the Aster silo to give 48 CAMM? Or, make the 6 block into an 8 CAMM block for same sized footprint?
….sorry, this gets my goat up a bit.
Putting Mk41 into the Mk41 hole/gym would be fair enough. It was designed for that. However, it was decided, for, possibly, the wrong reasons that CAMM tubes and not Mk41 would be used.
That could have been ££££ to buy and integration costs as well as lead times. CAMM is UKIP as is the BAE CMS. And the BAE CMS is already controlling CAMM on T23 out of CAMM tubes. So the software and hardware risks of using CAMM tubes are minimal and it can’t turn in AJAX.
I suspect that CAMM was chosen as low cost and low risk. The integration of Mk41 into T45 would have been an expensive project and the trials of BAE CMS on T26 have not been done yet so a fully tested software module cannot be ported. Having two slightly different integrations running semi in parallel for Mk41 could be very, very expensive as they would have been marginally out of sync but not by much. The alternative being to fit Mk41 into T45 but leave it empty and unintegrated until the T26 testing was done then port and test that on T45. See the issues?
Pure guesswork on my part but those would be my thoughts if I was hypothetically tasked with sorting this out.
Where were the ££££ going to come from to allow for cutting up T45 to put CAMM tubes hullwards of ASTER silos? From a DC point of view you don’t want things in that triangle anyway.
If they’ve maximised the farm space for the CAMM fair enough. The NZ Anzacs squeezed in 20 CAMM into a 2 mk41 footprint so 4 ahead here is a plus. Yes mk41s would be expensive, heavy and as you say integration maybe would further complicate things. They’re obviously spending big money on the upgrade already, the Aster’s great, but just 24 CAMM, i think it could have been more, maybe 32?The BAE Adaptive frigate has a triangular 3way silo layout which is what I was trying to suggest. I’m not trying to stir the pot here but any silos that are flush with the deck even with breakwater walls have got to be open to ingestion of sea water in rough sea state so I thought a wall height for the CAMM farm as on the T23s would be more appropriate? The CAMM silos don’t appear to have a self closing cap design either so being open to the elements can’t be good for successive reloads. I’m happy to be corrected on any of this.
While the Poles might do quadpacked CAMM-ER, I can’t recall them announcing it. As far as I know the CAMM-ERs they bought were for the Narew land batteries, whereas they talked about CAMM and CAMM-MR on the frigates. I haven’t heard that Italy are planning on quadpacked-ER either. I think it is likely that Sweden will have quadpacked CAMM-ER on the Visbys before the RN goes down that route.
No real need for it on a stand alone container. Poland was the big pusher for CAMM-MR and their Type 31 have Mk.41. Their ground based defence is already covered by patriot.
On ships dual packing a Mk.41 is a much better option than making a custom launcher that will inevitably end up bigger than the current CAMM launchers, already horrifically inefficient in deck space .
Poland is supposed to have started down the path of CAMM-MR as a cheaper backup to Patriot, less focussed on BMD. The twin pack was just a convenient way of packing a lot of AAW firepower into their frigates.
For that reason the reason I was wondering about a single canister is land launch, not standalone naval VLS; I’ve explained elsewhere in these threads why I don’t think that’s a good idea. CAMM-MR would be an excellent addition to Sky Sabre but if the only available canister is the mk41 twin pack that’s a non-starter.
I’ve personally not heard Poland wanting a ground based CAMM-MR, it would obviously be a nice system and option but I haven’t heard anything about it so far, instead only hearing about it for their type 31.
It would also be very good for us, however let us be completely realistic, the UK is never going to get a proper long ranged land-based missile defense system
Talk Talk Talk HMG 😴
As unpalatable as it may be to some people, the grim reality is that the UK has next to no army any more. I therefore wonder, why all these little ‘agreements’ with a plethora of countries, on all manner of things are wanted, needed, or even necessary.
I presume the Polish helicopter pilots coming to the UK for training are bringing their own helicopters?
Maybe we are borrowing a cup of helicopters from next door…
It’s a bring and share event 🙂
I think Poland have the license to assemble Black Hawk helicopters in Europe.
QED?……😂
A big brave press release… And no money to fund any of it.
The fake Americans are back
Are we just chalking them all down to CCP political warfare officers…
350 personnel deployed in Poland….when we need 35,000……armoured…….tooled up, ready to rock and roll……
Our soldiers are not in Poland, they are in Estonia. It’s the US that is suppose to put extra forces into Poland while European and Canadian forces have enhanced prescience in the Baltics.
UK personnel in Poland are largely there to support logistics and intelligence sharing with Ukraine.
What is your point?
Operation Cabrit is the UK’s contribution to NATO’s Forward Land Forces in Estonia and Poland. Established in 2016, a British Army Brigade is held at readiness and deploys its fighting power to secure NATO’s flank in Estonia and provide a reconnaissance capability in Poland. Operation Cabrit works alongside multiple NATO allies in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland, showing the strength of NATO through its united commitment to the alliance’s collective security and defence.
“explore”; “future”; “options” All great words coming out of Downing Street and never meaning a thing.
Yet another agreement with absolutely no hardware or manpower to deliver it.