The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that Royal Air Force jets were not involved in intercepting Iranian missiles during the recent attacks on Israel.
In a statement released on 2 October, it was clarified that two RAF Typhoon fighter jets, along with a Voyager air-to-air refuelling tanker, were deployed to support efforts to prevent further escalation in the Middle East. However, they did not engage any targets during the mission.
The Ministry of Defence stated, “Last night (1 October), two Royal Air Force Typhoon fighter jets and a Voyager air-to-air refuelling tanker played their part in attempts to prevent further escalation in the Middle East, demonstrating the UK’s unwavering commitment to Israel’s security. Due to the nature of this attack, they did not engage any targets, but they played an important part in wider deterrence and efforts to prevent further escalation.”
It is understood that British jets were not equipped to engage the ballistic missiles involved in this particular incident. This differs from a previous operation earlier in the year, where RAF jets successfully intercepted and shot down lower, slower-flying drones launched from Iran.
Defence Secretary John Healey thanked the personnel involved, acknowledging their role in contributing to regional deterrence, despite not engaging targets. He reaffirmed the UK’s commitment to supporting efforts to maintain stability in the Middle East.
While British jets have been previously involved in intercepting drone threats, this recent mission involved more complex ballistic missile threats, reflecting the varied challenges the region continues to face.
Impotent UK. We have so little to offer with our hollowed out military. I despair….
Seriously why are we getting involved with this. Both israel and Iran are Russian supporters and heavily involved with china. The US political system is corrupt enough to be bought by Israeli special interest groups, let them handle it. We risk getting sucked in to yet another pointless Middle East war so sleepy joe and the Donald can get a few more campaign donations.
Iran or rather Persia has a horrible government its responsible for the entire middle east problem. It’s own people bar a handful dispise their government and would like it over thrown. Isreal giving Iran a few body blows might be the catalyst to make that happen and if a few Typhoons, which are station in Cypus anyway. providing defence and deterence help that to happen then the result will be a world thats in a far better place in the 10 years time.
First reaction is why do we get involved especially as the Israeli Govt is pretty vile but in the end it can as a Democracy be changed, Iran and others won’t except through violence. So we have to look deeper at potential futures.
Yes with events in recent years we really do now have to recognise a bigger picture is in play with various corrosive actors at play working together if not directly then in sympathy for a shared goal to topple the World Order that for all its faults has brought a modicum of peace, security and shared interests, even if mutual respect is too strong a term. The lid has been kept on a very scary world with all manner of regimes developing power and threat that previously only a few had. They are working in their own regions to intimidate any and all democratic or West friendly countries. Russia wants Ukraine to further its aims of new Slavs in its dying cultural make up, control over African food supplies and imposed obedience upon East European and eventually all European Countries. China is pushing its power grab in Asia, the Pacific and progressively Africa and no doubt both will increase pressure in South America and the Caribbean. Iran wants similar power, threat and influence in the Middle East. If as it wishes Iran gains an effective coastline in the Med via Lebanon and Syria Europe will be under far great threat with the area between Lebanon and Cyprus and probably beyond not just threatened but potentially under part control. Introduce nuclear weapons and Europe is under serious threat from both east and south while China continues with the economic screw and gradual military threat far and wide.
Allow one of these players expands offers opportunities for the others and weakens western resistance let alone influence and intimidate ‘neutral’ or unaligned countries some not already well disposed to the West. If the West and its values are seen to be losing then the ‘war’ will eventually be lost before it starts on the battlefield and a new world order is established that will not be stable or peaceful or to the benefit of anyone but those tyrants in charge. So ignoring events in the Middle East is probably unwise to say the least, short end of a very big dangerous wedge.
This ^^^
Yet another cock and bull story to throw the middle-east down another abyss of heavy violence that will lead to renewed resentment for western values and associated terrorism that will play out on the streets of Europe and the west in general. We’ve been here before, Another spin on WMD story to pull western military into armed conflict, this time with Iran. The Americans are already bought and paid for by the Israelis so have no option but to go along, but I really hope the labour govt learn from history and seat this one out. We have enough problems on our hands as it stands, warmongering is the last thing anyone needs in the UK. Perhaps, young Brits aren’t queuing up to sign up and go die in a conflict that has absolutely nothing to do with protecting the territorial integrity of the UK.
You are very very keen on the west doing nothing in the world and allowing the Chinese and states friendly to china to do as they will.
Infact one of our anti western statements went so far as to say “At least the chinese isn’t bombing any country or supplying arms to genocidal regimes”…
in answer to that I ask you a very simple question ( to which I know the answer as I suspect do you) where the hell do you think Iran got the weapon tec and advanced components to manufacture all the ballistic missiles it’s firing at Israel…yes the answer is china..the root supplier of all the ballistic missile technology that the publicly declared genocidal regimes of Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthi and Iran us to attack anyone who is not an avowed Islamist and supports the Islamist mission to remove any none Islamic government from the historic and conquered lands ruled by Islam.
Where do I think Iran got the tech ? Probably China, Russia or whoever. But what difference does it make? The US, UK and European defence contractors also buy parts and components for making military drones from China…..Ukraine buy parts and whole civilian drones from China which they repurpose for military use in the war against Russia. China is the world’s factory and does business with everyone including our friends and foes….that is not new knowledge. It is public information that China has a foreign policy of none interference which they’ve stayed true to. So why are people like you acting surprised all of a sudden and making an issue of it ? Does China dictate to us who we should do business with ? Why do you think we should dictate how and who the world’s 2nd largest economy does business with ?
China has a non interference policy, that is one of the funnest statements I have heard in ages. The CCP has a policy of profound interference in other nations, I suggest you read the writings of Mao especially on the nature of warfare and protracted war..china is and has been at war with the west for a considerable time. It’s simply that china sees warfare as going far beyond kinetic warfare as the west understands it. A nation with a policy of non interference does not employ an offensive political warfare arm of 3 million people. Yes ! china has three million political warfare staff whose sole job is to actively interfere in other nations.
You really need to do a bit of reading about the aims, objects and paradigms of Chinese warfare and of the CCP. Read “on protracted warfare”, read the Chinese paradigms of political warfare and the role of all Chinese bodies including business as part of political warfare, review and understand the implications of wolf warrior diplomacy linked to belt and road, consider the Chinese view of international law and its use of law warfare ( one of the three political warfares china undertakes).
The reason the CCP don’t us kinetic warfare like the west is they believe in killing your enemies will and ability to fight before you ever fight.
For someone to say they consider the CCP non interventionist really makes me laugh.
So you mean political warfare like every other big country does ? Or do they have to play by a different rule because we can’t push them around ? If they are not going around bombing people, overthrowing govts of other countries and encouraging their friend to occupy other people’s territory, that is a peaceful international actor to me……the chinese do actual development projects(bridge, roads, dams, airport, train tracks) that is beneficial to the local population through their belt and road initiative unlike the world bank and IMF loans that just hands money to dictator if they agree to take off their uniforms and wear a suit….80% of IMF and world bank loans ends up being deposited in Swiss accounts and other dodgy accounts in the virgin Islands…..Hate the chinese all you want, but people deal with them cos they treat other countries with respect instead of the condescension and lectures they get from western countries…
I seem to remember the exact same arguments being made in 2003.
Exactly…..here we go again. However, I trust that this time, the British people will not be sending out their children to go put their lives on the line cos Netanyahu wants to show Iran who is the boss.
Clearly a left wing clown
A right wing knuckle head perhaps 😉
Nope but you are a clown who is now on her third fake account . Get a job and pay some tax . You need not worry about Gaza as there will be no Gaza in a year 👍
That’s more like it …..I appreciate you dropping the facade and admitting that your just another genocidal psycho like Netanyahu….. and I possibly pay more tax than you thank you very much……As for using other accounts, to what end ? So I can argue with psychos like you ? Come on mate ….get a life..
That’s 3 different names you been under on here . Why don’t you get a job and pay tax
Repeating it several times won’t make it true mate……though I can tell you learnt that tactics from the Israeli govt that you so admire…..if you can’t win on fact, do your best to discredit your opponent……..I have an advice for you too since you’ve asked me to go to Gaza…..how about you move to Tel aviv since you love the Israelis that much.
Good question. I think we are being careful. It was reported that Starmer talked with Abdulla of Jordan the day before the Iranian missile attack. And the Typhoons did not shoot at anything, unlike last time. They only flew around somewhere ( maybe Jordan?) to help prevent ‘escalation’. Also no T45 taking part.
Not careful enough, we get tarred with the same brush as the US and the US is threatening retaliation against Iran.
We need to make it very clear we nothing to do with this.
Even start pulling forces out of the region, let the US know they can go it alone on this one with their ally Israel.
I would council no sudden moves. We have to decide what outcome we want and act accordingly. The Israeli government is not representative of the nation’s population. The ideal would be a one state solution – a secular Israel – a shared land for people of all faiths. Its really down to the Israeli people to rein in the Jewish fundamentalists. But realistically a demilitarised zone in south Lebanon, a lunch Korea?
That’s a very bad idea, this goes well beyond Israel, Iran is also after Jordan and iraq..they want the whole region run by their proxies…if they win the war they are fighting, Western Europe is cut off from the western Indian ocean sea lanes and the entire eastern Mediterranean comes under threat as well as does North Africa..We the west simply cannot let that region fall to Islamists. Ignoring the tide of human misery that will create..it will slice the world in half geopolitically. The Middle East directly interacts with Europe it is not a far distant land.
Ah yes I believe it’s called the Domino effect, I seem to remember LBJ using this as justification for intervening in Vietnam. It was also very much spouted by Blair and Bush when intervening in Afghanistan to save Pakistan from falling to the Taliban.
At some point we need to learn, there are no good out come for us in the Middle East and no matter what we do it won’t make a blind but of difference in the long run.
Rapidly divesting from fossil fuels should be our main priority then we can ignore the region.
Bankrupting our country you mean yes
Energy is not the issue, it’s the geostrategic position, essentially cutting Europe from the indo pacific region.
Afghanistan failed because it was about nation building. Only idiots invade and conquer other nations..the clever players subvert and contain…what is needed in the Middle East is containment..in the end as long as Iran religious rulers and their hideous ideology is contained it will destroy itself, it’s hated by its own population and is geostrategically isolated as long as the west supports a number of core nations in the region. No one needs to invade Iran, it can be isolated and subverted from within. We just need to help ensure places like Jordan are not subverted before Iran and Irans attempts to subvert and attacked other nations are robustly managed.
Can’t (won’t) even control Islamists in the UK, but expect to control them in their dusty shit holes??? Went well in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan that……….
Spineless coward you sound . The U.K. stands with Israel . Did we not dump them there for fighting for us you spineless man
The t45 can’t shoot down long range ballistic missiles , that’s why it didn’t take part this time or last time
Israel is the only true democracy in the middle east. It the only bastion of liberalism. And it is tiny compared to the hostile surrounding countries, most of which are variants of islamic theocracies that have varying levels of disdain for Israel and Jews, and are only peaceful because they know the West has got Israel’s back.
Since 2023 Israel is no longer classified as a liberal democracy, it’s been downgraded to an electoral democracy much the same as Hungary after it attacked the independence of its judiciary.
It’s now continuously prolonging a war so its Prime minister does not have to have an election and face going to jail for multiple crimes. It’s also increasingly a religious theocracy as well as its criminal leadership turns to extremist polarities to hold power.
Why would you want to support such a nation?
Also literally what has Israel ever done for the UK? It’s refusing to do anything against Russia as well. It’s neither an ally or friend to the UK. it’s often down right hostile to our interests.
Hamas, Iran and Hezbollah are also terrible, I don’t see any benefits in supporting anyone in this conflict.
Every paragraph here is inaccruate:
You call Israel the Sole democracy in the middle-east as if we all have to die for them cos they’re a democracy….and please don’t make me laugh with that joke of Israel respecting human rights. Where is the freedom of press in Israel? Where is the respect for international law ? Where is their just conduct of war ? Where is equality and fundamental human rights in Israel? I can keep going ….just conducting elections and right to vote does not make you a democracy. 130 journalists, 280 aid workers and over 40000 civilians and counting killed in Gaza so far……..Except you tell me that the features of democracy now includes mass murder, flagrant disregard for international law and basic human decency, Israel isn’t a democracy in my book.
Who is claiming we have to “die for Israel”? … they can defend themselves.
Democracy is rule by the citizens. Israel certainly has that just like every Western European country. Just because you don’t like Israeli policies is immaterial to the fact that the country is a democracy with free elections.
What happened in October 2023 is that war was initiated … not by Israel, but by the Iranian-Hamas-Hezbollah axis. When wars are initiated, terrible events follow. That is the case in all wars. But that is immaterial to the fact that states that find themselves the victims of aggression have a right to defend themselves. Britain certainly did that from 1939 to 1945. It carpet bombed German cities, sunk the French fleet after France surrendered and rentlessly pursued the advance into Germany in 1945. That is the sad reality of war.
Yea we did it in the 1930s, so let’s turn a blind eye to slaughter in 2024 cos it is our ally…….Will you make the same argument if Putin was killing the Ukrainian civilian population is equal measure as Israel is killing Palestinian civilians? Or do we excuse them cos they’re the only democracy in the middle-east? You see how easily the whole international rule based order can unravel when you are not consistent in your condemnation…..The west has lost all credibility and now has to resort to violence or sanction to secure compliance from the rest of the world…..Developing countries don’t respect us anymore and our soft power is a thing of the past cos our double standards are now in full display with the help of social media. Our Mainstream media is so compromised that most of our young people don’t even get their news from them anymore. I’m sorry but no one is buying those skewed and half-truths you wrote.
Who’s no one ? You mean you , listen you been on this form under 3 names now . Most in the U.K. don’t give a shit if developing countries respect us or not and neither does the majority in the U.K. , another British woman raped by another Mohamed and is now dead because of clowns like you and your views on developing countries . Thats a polite was of saying savages 🙄
You don’t have to descend that low to make your point mate…..you don’t have to care if we are respected, but I certainly don’t want to live through another period where British citizen are at risk anywhere they go just cos their govt is supporting a warmongering Israeli prime minister who is hell bent on a war in the middle-east so he can save his own neck.
Again go live in Gaza then cause the U.K. does stand with Israel apart from 2 million weirdos who go on protests , you need not worry as Gaza will soon be totally flattened , you never wonder why Egypt has a huge razor wire wall around Palestine ? The reason is they done want the animals either .
Have you ever wondered why we sent out the Jews to the middle-east instead of accommodating them in Europe? Could it have something to do with us not liking animals ?
Why don’t you get a job and pay some tax ?
I pay way more tax than you’ve ever done in your life so don’t even go there…
No you don’t . You are also not educated in world affairs . 🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡🤡
Certainly way more educated than you….lots of emoji in your attempt at trolling cos you lack substance in these adult discussions….lots of emotions going on in every line you write that’s how I gauge your level of intelligence…and I’m afraid to say that’s its below par
We live in a democracy in the UK, but it’s anything but, just a pantomime to fool the fools.
Listen silly girl , we put the Jews in that hell hole for fighting for us so we can well back them . The amount of intelligence they share with us is high 🙄🙄
Okay wet lettuce….. let’s destroy our reputation and put our country on terror alerts because the Israeli govt are trigger happy psychos that think they can shoot their way into lasting peace. I hope you’re still in fighting age or have grown up children who you can encourage to elist and go waste their lives in another senseless war because the Israelis share intelligence with us….
Our reputation at what ? Being a wet lettuce . It’s clowns like you that caused the uk decline . Go live in Gaza and be an outspoken white woman and see how many days you last before you are killed
What does living in Gaza has to do with basic human decency if you claim to uphold the principles of democracy? Our reputation at what you asked ? Our reputation as a decent country that is respected by others for our values and respect for human rights and international law. The UK is in decline because the world have changed and we have relics in the ruling class who did not recalibrate the UK economy to take advantage of a changing world. We can’t blame someone else for our mishaps. It is relics like you that think it’s still the 19th century where we can do what we want without consequences.
If we was a decent country we would flatten that shit hole Iran’s military capabilities. How many fake names you had now ? 3 ? You are a fool that needs to get a job and pay some tax
Not sure of your reason for the name calling…..but you sound very angry over what should be an educated dialogue over international affairs…..get a grip mate before you have a heart attack 😁
You don’t even work and your on about the economy 🤣🤣🤡piss off
That’s really funny……I’m sure you can tell from my knowledge of world affairs that I’m highly educated and well travelled, but then you have to resort to personal insults when you can’t make a convincing argument…..out of curiosity, what was your gross last year ? 😁
No I can’t tell at all . You sound stupid and you can’t even see it , well traveled 🤣 most are well travelled . Bye bye
Go on Tom…….tell us your gross last year since you pay a lot of tax….or are you ashamed of your tax Band? 😂
How many of the 40,000 dead in Gaza are hamas soldiers, that’s never mentioned by the Gaza health authority which is controlled by hamas, this is part of their propaganda which has proved very effective in convincing most of the world that Israel is conducting genocide against the Palestinians. I deplore all wars but I don’t like blatant lies being told.
Come on now……over 11000 children and 6000 women dead aren’t all Hamas mate……Anyone with some decency and sincerity in them can tell that the Israeli govt is deliberately prosecuting the war in this manner. Every human right organisation have said Israel might be committing a war crime. How about the killed journalists and aid workers who are bombed in clearly marked aid vehicles? How about people getting food from aid trucks who are shot indiscriminately in Broad daylight? We are living in a time when you cannot hide such crimes anymore that’s why decent people all over the world are protesting this behaviour and demanding that their govt cut ties with Netanyahu’s govt. If they have nothing to hide, why do they go out of their way to keep journalists out of Gaza ? If you still need convincing about the motive behind such indiscriminate massacre going on in Gaza then maybe you need to check your own bias. I am a Christian myself and have nothing against Jews and the good people of Israel, but what the Netanyahu govt is doing is sheer madness and our govts are simply going along because the Americans have been bought and paid for by Israeli interest groups. The west unfortunately have lost every moral authority to speak to anyone else on human rights if they cannot restrain Netanyahu’s behaviour.
The V Dem institute in its annual index ranking. There a massive difference between having the right to vote and being a liberal democracy.
I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Israel or its politics I suggest you look it up. The government has interfered with the independence of the judiciary. That’s why it’s not a liberal democracy.
If I recall correctly, after mass demonstrations, including the army reserves, the government backed down and the independance of the judiciary remains, which is why it remains a liberal democracy. That’s not to say the government might not try it again in the future; it’s just a little busy right now.
So did the Tories in the UK along with the right wing press
Ukraine hasn’t had an election either
So what ? We should go bomb everyone at the say so of Netanyahu? It has nothing to do with us…..if Israel is going about assassinating anyone it likes and bombing any location of its choosing irrespective of civilian casualty, it is not for the UK to come to their rescue when those actors retaliate against them. We need to mind our business.
We put them there
Sure….but if they’re not going to be responsible international actors with value for human lives other than there own, then we shouldn’t be obliged to defend them irrespective of their actions…..And if I may ask, why did we put them there ? Seems to me that we couldn’t tolerate them either…
They are responsible. They are surrounded by Muslims who want to wipe them out . What would you like them to do ? Act all liberal in the face of rockets being fired at their towns ? We put them in that shit hole and I guarantee you every single U.K. soldier would love to go help them so it’s irrelevant what you think as you won’t be doing the fighting . Might I suggest you go live in Gaza with your liberal views and see how you get on as an out spoken woman you total fool . Muslim country’s in the region only fear strength and aggression . Israel is showing having a set of balls the U.K. hasn’t had since at least 1980 . I see another British woman was raped and died of repeated rape by some sack is shxt called Mohamed in England and you wonder why the Jews have to be aggressive .
Showing strength to you is murdering 40000 civilians, 280 international aid workers and dozens of journalists. The Israelis certainly have the expertise and capabilities to go after Hamas and hezbollah leadership and members as they demonstrated in Lebanon. But what they are doing in Gaza is sheer madness and can only be justified by a blood thirsty psycho…..And what is that with bombing another country’s embassy and conducting assassination within their territory then expecting them to not retaliate…….is this some form of arrogance or do you expect other countries to go about acting like that ?
Nah nah nah . If hamas fire rockets out of civilian buildings then that building becomes a military target . Blame Hamas you absolute clown . Again I’ll state since you ignored it , why don’t you go live in Gaza as an out spoken white woman and see how long you live . I watched Palestinians cheer In the streets when Hamas butchered the Israelis . I saw them spit on hostages and hit them with sticks as Hamas paraded them so fuck Them all . They are now getting what’s coming to them and so is Allah 👍
Wow you just stepped into antisemitism there. That was a disgraceful comment.
How so ?
They are facing existential threats in a multipronged assault by state and terrorist actors who are willing to use human shields and slaughter civilians in first strike attacks.
If we had similarly powerful and ruthless enemies on our borders then I’m sure we’d be much more willing to incur civilian collateral damage on the enemy side in order to protect our own population.
If the west did not back Israel at this point it would send a message to others in the region that they can bully Israel with impunity.
Just like I said to another warmonger in a different comment, I hope you are of fighting age or have family members who can enlist to go throw away their lives once the UK government decide to send troops into the middle-east to march with Israel……I for one will only put my life on the line for king and country(which means in defence of territorial integrity of the UK). I will certainly be on the street protesting any attempt by our government to send out British troops to go fight another senseless war in the middle-east that puts our streets and citizens in danger of terrorism. Netanyahu can play hardball with his own people.
Corleone, after reading your comments, I can not imagine any scenario where you will lay your life on the line for ‘king and country’.
I can however, see a scenario where you will be on the streets ‘protesting’.
Oh I love my country and will lay down my life if the territorial integrity of this country is ever threatened, and it will interest you to know that I voted for reform in the last election and will vote for anyone who puts the interests of the British people first. What I will not do is encourage or partake in any war that does not benefit this country in any way. We are not Americans who have built their economy around defence contractors hence, I don’t see why we have to play superhero in another person’s movie.
Quality buddy 👍
Iraq, Libya and Syria were well ordered until the US&A/UK ruined their countries. Israel can get to fcuk, the kiddie murdering cnuts.
There’s an interesting turn of phase here, ‘the Typhoons were not equipped to engage’ as if they could have been. The UK military is not equipped to engage’ ballistic missiles in general (arguably the type 45s can although we’re waiting for the upgrade to officially be able to)
During the Cold War, the Stalinist Albanians used to issue statements such as: “We and the Chinese are 800 million strong” … there is an element of “Albanianism” in current UK foreign policy … endless rhetoric about how important the UK is, but with ever declining substance.
Agree , Two tier kier , reminds me of your typical old school 80s left wing communist dictator with the way he speaks to the public . He’s only been in charge a few weeks , dread to think how he will be dealing to us after one year
I would have thought the press office would have kept quiet about helping.
Israel is such a toxic topic, there is no right answer that pleases people.
Im not against Israel it’s a good country and has nice people. Just the current government are a bit trigger happy
Ben Wallace has confirmed today that the U.K. was put on the back bench in defending Israel as the RAF and type 45 cannot deal with ballistic missiles . Embarrassing it Is that a so called g7 nation couldn’t intercept attacks from Iran . Even the last time it was just some drones the typoon’s took out yet Starmer is saying we defended Israel
Your statement about the T45 is incorrect. More accurately it should say the T45 does have a terminal phase anti-ballistic capability. However, the success rate of the interception is not guaranteed.
The current CMS, Sampson and Aster 30 Block 0 can intercept ballistic missiles, as it has been proven off Yemen. Even if these were the slower anti-ship ballistic missiles.
They are not the same tho and if it could intercept then we wouldn’t be spending money on new aster upgrades
The upgrade is about improving probability of kill, or P(K), of the Aster-30 and PAAMS against ballistic missiles. At the moment, Aster-30 Block 0 has proved that it can intercept multiple short range ballistic missiles in their term. However, this isn’t what the missile was designed to do and as such it’s P(K) against these targets is likely lower than dedicated systems. Aster-30 Block 1 improves P(K) against BMs, making the missile more reliable and enabling the reliable engagement of the next range class of BMs, namely the 600km class. Aster-30 Block 1NT increases the missiles range and P(K) against intermediate range BMs.
These upgrades are not introducing a whole new capability for the missile, but improving its inherent abilities and general P(K).
Nicely put Leh.
Silly question, when you say “increase the range” is that the “engagement range” and or an actual increase in “distance range” of the new Aster itself and or the whole system with its radars as a whole?
I wouldn’t listen to starmer.the only thing he wants to put out of action is old people
I agree . They are a clown show
So, as I said yesterday, we did not get involved. Amazing.
I think in this case the government may be relieved, they have quite a few votes hanging on not helping Israel. They will be hoping that they don’t actually get called on to do something we can actually do.
I hadn’t thoght of it like that. I must be getting old ! You might well be right. I wouldn’t put it past them.
It’s quite sad that we may have a government that needs to pander to a religious group to ensure it can secure enough votes . And for balance, I would say that of any party that relies on a minority group, it will ultimately affect their decision making.
…and you can get a wallopping majoriyt with less than a third of the votes cast. What a system..
Don’t get involved in any major action against Iran. We’ll throw people, money and resources at it to show everyone how important we are only for the US to heel turn during a future election cycle, leaving us out of pocket, bewildered and looking foolish. Fool me once…..
Iran is a tinder box, it won’t be a military intervention that causes the regime to fall but some smaller actions like Israel hitting its oil and gas infra could tip the population, which is largely pro western, over the edge. People forget most of the big street protests in Iran they shout Not for Palestine, no to Gaza, no to Lebenon. effective the people are completely against Irans foreign policy in the region, ironic as our street protest are exactly the opposite!!! Go figure.
I’m not disputing you but I am somewhat more wary because these are always the people that our press latch on to: Westward leaning students, pro democracy and human rights activists, social media influencers and the like. However, judging by the standards of other places such as Libya, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, they talk the talk but they are just not fighters. The fighters are those other guys that we might consider even worse than the regime they are trying to topple.
I’m not sure that’s the case. The regime is brutal it doesn’t target the protesters, but it will go and arrest their family members like grandparents to make the fight unfair. The country is run by the government and Basij, who are small % of the population. The basij are not uniformed and report people to the authorities. The Mullahs got to power through revolution and know how they did it so know how to quickly crush any revolution. However , the revenue stream of oil and gas being cut off could see their abilities to pay the Basij for their loyalty reduced as well as more hostility towards the government’s rather stupid regional policies which do nothing for the Iranian people. There’s always a tipping point where those loyal realise this may not end with their side winning, once that’s hit things change rapidly as they start to desert the cause.
Shouldn’t get involved. Not capable of taking out ballistic missiles. Whole episode should be a massive wake up call to UK Govt
How many wake up calls do they need? It’s like they have an entire row of alarm clocks going off and they turn over murmuring about sleeping in just a little longer.
Indeed. I know the MOD are making noises..studies, research etc but I’ve been banging on about capability gaps and bare bone approach to many issues for over a decade now. Strikes me that decades of neglect will result, in certain scenarios, in a re-run of the 1939 Polish Cavalry charges against German tanks. Well trained, very disciplined, very brave but fundamentally outmatched and doomed.
Demonstrably, at least the RN has recognized the dimensions of the issue, though they have been hobbled in addressing it by budgetary constraints. Presumably, both the British Army and the RAF have future plans to address the threat w/in their respective roles, provided funding becomes available. Somewhat ironically, believe that one modern equivalent of a German V2 rocket, landing on Parliament, would revise HMG’s viewpoint re ballistic missile defence more dramatically than any amount of analyses and studies would ever accomplish. 🤔
Essentially, have exactly the same viewpoint re Uncle Sugar’s ballistic missile defense initiatives.
Yes, how easily politicians fail to learn from history. 6,725 V1s (‘cruise missiles’) were launched against England, killing 5,475 people and wounding 16,000.
Germans launched 1,400 V2 ballistic rockets against England.
My Dad, then a schoolboy, narrowly avoided a V2 strike it landed in the net street.
Devastation to housing was huge.
We had a partial counter to the V1s (Ack-ack and wing-tipping) but none to the V2s.
The only real air defence we have is at sea and the only one getting any BM capability is the T45. Will be interesting to see if the defence review actually acknowledges the the threat to UK mainland and its offshore infra.
V2 required recce and bombing runs before they could be launched as once they were in the air we had nothing.
I’m not aware that we do now!
GBAD…
…or is this a task for our shiny new Aerospace Command, rather than single service approach.
Is that indeed the approved plan? 🤔
Well said, couldn’t have put it better.
There are things in the works. Tenders and things. Doesn’t happen overnight
Perhaps revise second sentence of post as follows: “Not capable of taking out ballistic missiles (on the probable required scale?).” Believe a T-45 has already demonstrated that capability. Otherwise, concur w/ sentiment of your text. 🤔👍
The Israelis undoubtedly have the capability to escalate exponentially by themselves, a capacity which the Iranians cannot match. There is even a reasonable probability that the Israelis would constrain the dimensions of the conflict to the employment of conventional munitions solely. 🤔🤞
Stand to be corrected by others but my understanding is that T45 today, can take out short range Ballistic missiles during the launch Phase (if launch is detected and close enough) and can focus on certain aspects in the descent phase (but not Vertical) if it diverts its radar capacity from lower level trajectories. If the threat was near concurrent Sea Skimmers plus BM and/or long-range BM then T45 would today struggle. Planned upgrades currently being planned are intended to allow for basic vertical view as well as concurrent horizon view.
I think that’s about right, but I recall it was able to track BM and did well in a US exercise in the Pacific a few years back doing so. The government blurb they will use a land base version of Aster 30 which can already handle BM defence, probably a combination of changes needed.
It depends on a number of factors. The Aster 30 Block 0 should be capable of dealing with short range ballistic missiles during the launch and terminal phases. If the ship is close enough to the launch point. The ballistic missile is at its heaviest and therefore in its slowest phase. It will be accelerating, but not as fast as Aster can intercept it.
The issue is when the ballistic missile gets past the engagement window. The ship will have to wait until the ballistic missile re-enters the engagement window. As Aster 30 has a limited interception altitude.
The T45 should be able to intercept all ballistic missiles in the launch phase if it’s close enough and the missile’s engagement window overlaps the launch phase. Similarly it should be able to intercept ballistic missiles in the terminal phase. But again the falling ballistic missile or re-entry vehicle must again be in the engagement window and crossed the maximum height threshold.
Don’t worry about Sampson concentrating on one threat axis or being swamped. Sampson can multi-task (multi-beam) due to the nature of being an AESA radar. But you are correct about the vertical view. There is radar dead zone cone above the ship. Hopefully going to be remedied with a third Sampson panel that Kay’s horizontally, so it looks directly upwards.
The RAF Typhoons were not capable of taking out ballistic missiles flying from Iran to Israel. Were they equipped wrongly for the mission, or have they no capability?
Two Typhoons were deployed. The mighty British Lion roars.
The whole support for Israel needs re assessing in uk
People are on the fence at the moment
Not in my name. They’re land grabbing, resource thieving child murderers.
Couldnt have described Iran better myself. Well done.
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So how much did it cost to scramble the three aircraft? A pretty penny I suspect, and if they weren’t equipped to tackle the Iranian missiles then why the hell launch the two fighters and a refiling tanker? That’s like trying to use a challenger tank to hunt submarines!
The statement makes for an interesting question. Can an aircraft’s standard air to air missile intercept a ballistic missile?
The answer is possibly. The main caveat is the aircraft has to be in the right place at the right time. Is the aircraft expected to do a long range or short range interception? The speed of the ballistic missile will play significantly into the equation. Short range ballistic missiles are a lot slower than intermediate ones for example. Whilst ICBM MIRVs could be passing through the atmosphere faster than Mach 10.
So could a current Tranche 3 Typhoon armed with Meteor and ASRAAM, shoot down a ballistic missile? I would say also yes possibly! But it must guided to be in the right position for firing by either a radar ground station, ship’s radar or AEW. Both Meteor and ASRAAM should be able to track the ballistic missile/re-entry vehicle.
So the next step is all acceleration curves and trigonometry. To put the missile in the right place for the interception. Both ASRAAM and Meteor are renowned for hitting targets. Though I’m not sure if the proximity fuzing would be able to cope with a passing Mach 6+ target? As there’s a chance the detonated fragmentation cloud, may evolve too late. Which was a problem for the early Patriot missiles.
A hypothetical here, could a Meteor armed Taranis uav do the same? What’s happened to the Taranis, any further developments? Will they try it off the QE carriers?
I would say yes. The key factor is getting the aircraft carrying the Meteor in the right position at the right time. The window for launching and interception will be determined by the speed of the falling ballistic missile/MIRV. The faster it falls the narrower the window.
So long as Taranis or any other UAV that can carry and launch Meteor is concerned. The aircraft will be controlled via a third party guided by a separate radar.
The performance of Meteor is known. Therefore you can work out how far away the launch platform needs to be, after measuring the velocity of the falling ballistic missile/MIRV. Then matching that to Meteor’s performance. Not forgetting that the unpowered ballistic missile/MIRV will be slowing down as it progressively enters denser air, plus any maneuvers will also cause it to slow down.
I’ve heard two rumours regarding Taranis. The first is that it performed better than expected, especially in regards to its low observability. However, as an experimental test aircraft, the weapons bay was too small to meet an operational requirement.
There is still a question of why it didn’t progress to a development aircraft. If I remember correctly this was the time when the U.K. and France decided to collaborate on the Neuron UAV. Which was going to be a loyal wingman type of aircraft. Subsequently the U.K. is no longer in this program. But there is a sovereign loyal wingman program that uses lessons learnt from Taranis. So fingers crossed it will be appearing in a similar time to our FCAS.
What exactly is that vital role. There’s no other way to say it. Britain is a declined force in the world today. There’s no point claiming others glory when we are not in that position.
This situation was bound to happen after we felt the Warsaw pact disintegrated .”options for changed etc “.we should never have been complacent.so now we have no answer to hypersonic missiles etc ,where we were always at the forefront of development .sold out by weak government’s.