The Ministry of Defence is evaluating the future demand for the Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 4+, both domestically and internationally, according to a written parliamentary response from Maria Eagle, Minister of State for Defence.

The assessment, perfectly routine and normal, is part of the ongoing Strategic Defence Review, which examines the future capability and relevance of the UK’s combat air fleet.

Responding to a question from Ian Roome, Liberal Democrat MP for North Devon, regarding the potential demand for the Typhoon Tranche 4+, Eagle stated that “the Ministry of Defence continually reviews the demand for Combat Aircraft, including through the ongoing Strategic Defence Review.” She noted that future combat aircraft will need to operate in increasingly demanding threat environments, making such evaluations essential for maintaining the UK’s operational edge.

Despite the emergence of 5th generation aircraft like the F-35, the UK remains committed to sustaining and upgrading the Typhoon to meet modern challenges. Eagle explained, “The UK is committed to upgrades to ensure the Typhoon aircraft remains competitive into the future, including the introduction of the European Common Radar Standard 2 radar.”

The minister highlighted the role of the UK’s Combat Air strategy in determining the balance between 4th and 5th generation aircraft. She emphasised the importance of delivering a “relevant and capable force mix” to counter evolving threats. These efforts ensure that the Typhoon remains a cornerstone of UK airpower alongside newer platforms.

Additionally, the upgrades, such as the European Common Radar Standard 2 radar, aim to enhance the Typhoon’s competitiveness in the international market. With its advanced capabilities and adaptability, the Typhoon Tranche 4+ remains attractive to partner nations and potential export customers.

Lisa West
Lisa has a degree in Media & Communication from Glasgow Caledonian University and works with industry news, sifting through press releases in addition to moderating website comments.

100 COMMENTS

    • 40 F35B, 24 Typhoon tranche 4+ and retention of 30 Tranche 1 Typhoons should do it. That would make the RAF the largest air force in western Europe.

        • Apart from the French what ? They are the biggest smoke and mirrors merchants in the world . Rafales originally destined for the Armée de l’Air have been diverted to overseas orders . The Mirages’ that make up numbers on paper and on Wiki are completely obsolete and many not fit to fly . Never believe French published numbers on any military capability .

          • People also need to look at French munitions orders….as well as Italian….when they look at force size…

      • The problem with the T1s is they can’t be updated to the same standards as the T2 onwards. So their only real role would be as trainers. Or scrap the Hawks, paint the T1s red, and have a much more modern display team.

        • The T1s can’t easily be updated to T2 or T3 but it is possible, albeit at significant cost. BAE presented options to the MOD on this.

          • Your are sort of right that although the tranche 1 airframes are slightly different to the 2’s and 3’s but yes BAE have said it is possible to upgrade them to 2/3 configuration like Airbus are doing to the Spanish tranche 1’s, only real trouble is it was estimated to cost around £30 million per jet and that was seval years ago. A lot of money on an old airframe.

      • Jim, According to journalist Tim Ripley in the November 2024 edition of “Air Forces Monthly”, wef 1st September 2024 – there were only 21 Typhoon Tranche1s remaining in the RAF inventory. Tim obtained those numbers from a Freedom of Information (FOI) request.
        A further “harvesting” (RTP) of those surviving airframes may already have commenced.
        The current plan is to retain only four T1s until 2027 for Falklands air-defence.
        Spares obtained from the RTP project will support sustaining the Typhoon fleet (107 Tranche 2/3s airframes) until 2040.

        • By ordering an extra 24 tranche 4+ typhoons and upgrading the existing tranche 3 typhoons to tranche 4+ makes sense.. this would keep the fleet going to 2040+
          F35Bs
          We need a minimum of 4 squadrons and OCU plus the evaluation unit. So a follow on order of 47 F35Bs
          Once FCAS is up and running in the late 30s they will probably be 100 minimum order.
          Sadly we need a new trainer Hawks are now beyond its sell by date and dosnt work for training our future pilots.
          South Korean TA50 & F50. Built under licence would be my choice with 42 TA50 and 16 F50 . 12 designated for red arrows.
          3 wedgetails is not enough 5 makes more sense and we have 5 radars. Ordering an extra radar as we have ordered 5.
          A400Ms we need an extra 10 to replace the C130s.
          All voyagers upgraded to A330 Neo and by them back from Airtanker.
          Finally poseidon 18 in total will allow us to do the job properly and aid our wedgetails
          That’s what our air force should be.
          Helicopter fleet
          Replace pumas with AW149

          • I don’t really disagree with any of that, Chris. But it’s politically impractical when the UK Treasury doesn’t yet believe that Russia is a serious threat. Neither was I suggesting that 107 Typhoons should be the sole component of our combat air.

            And you must also take account that GCAP (and Dreadnought) will be dominating the equipment budget for the next ten years.

            On another post, I suggested that as far as combat-air is concerned, we should at least look for the government to accelerate procurement of the next Lightning II purchase and the CAPTOR-E ECRS2 radar for Typhoon Tranche 3.

          • You cannot upgrade A330 MRTT to A330 NEO….its almost a new aircraft. Given how much our Voyager fly we’d never recoup the cost….

            A330 have decades left in them….but we need to prepare for the end of the PFI, taking them ‘inhouse’ is the only sensible option along with a Boom upgrade for them…

          • Many thanks Daniele. I’m very well – you can find me more often on X these days.
            But the surroundings on this forum are much more civilized!

    • What the RAF needs is the ability to maintain the squadron numbers it has and for that it needs 200 single seat aircraft and after all the tranche 1 typhoons have gone it will have

      96 single seat typhoons and 47 f35b…3 of those are orange wired so it only has 140 single seat front line aircraft….so a total of 60 more is needed. 30 f35b and 30 typhoons would make sense.

      With that it could move 12 squadron to F35b for a total of 3 front line f35 squadrons, and maintain 6 front line typhoon squadrons and Falklands flight.

      • I think the current MOD plan, Jonathan, is an inventory of 181 combat jets by the early 2030s.

        107 Typhoon Tranche 2/3 (40 with the new CAPTOR-E ECRS2 radar from 2030)
        74 Lightning II (a new order is expected to increase the fleet from 47).
        Eight front-line squadrons – and two reserve units. (And a Falklands flight).

        I think ECRS2 is a real game-changer for Typhoon, giving the aircraft a powerful Electronic Warfare capability. That will be allied to the introduction of the new SPEAR/SPEAR-EW family of missiles (from 2028).

        I would argue that’s not a bad combat capability – and the RAF’s priority might not be expanding the fast-jet fleet, but procuring additional Wedgetails, Poseidons and Atlas aircraft. And perhaps also accelerating the introduction of ECRS2, and the new order for Lightning II, if practical.

    • Why are 24+ F35B hilarious? That was a budgeted line?

      24 Typhoon @ £85m is £2Bn over 8 years £200m/yr.

      Increasing the pilot flow would cost about £125m.

      • There would be no increase in pilot flow supportive, we need 25-30 new typhoons to maintain the squadron numbers we have…the RAF is soon to drop to 96 single seat typhoons, that’s not enough to run 5 front line IX bomber, 12 squadron, Falklands flight and an ICO..so it will probably loss a couple of typhoon squadrons in the near future without a recapitalisation.

      • I’m not sure actual numbers matter as much as the rate of production of new aircraft that will influence Putin to see that he can’t win the cold war 2 we are now in.
        My guess is that the UK ought to be procuring 10 new aircraft per year as our share of NATO new aircraft production. We need other countries to match this as well so that European NATO members are procuring about 70 to 80 new aircraft a year. A figure which Russia can’t match at the moment.

        USA may well be forced to concentrate it’s own efforts on matching China and not able to significantly deploy US assets in Europe iat a significant scale.

        The UK government need to spend an adequate amount of money to deter Putin or we will finish up having to fight a war with Russia, which I for one don’t wish to see.

        If the strategic defense review doesn’t provide for adequate aircraft production including a plan for purchasing tempest in adequate numbers to replace typhoon then it’s unlikely to work as a deterrent. My view is that we need at least 3% of GDP per year and may need a little more once we see how Russia responds.

        • Why will we have to fight Russia if they’re struggling against Ukraine? They’ve been decimated. Why would Russia attack a near peer? That would be silly.

          • Putin needs flag waving success to stay in power. He won’t attack west directly on mass but will create a marginal conflict zone that may not trigger article 5. Start to lay claim to Svalbard with justification Norwegian control was granted at time of Russian weakness after the revolution blah blah blah. High Arctic is the likely conflict zone / trigger.

            2.5% of UK GDP should be more than enough to fund robust navy, airforce and adequate army. Wasted money is the issue. Look at what Australia fields with 2% of GDP.

          • That’s true now but, however the Ukraine War ends, Russia will immediately go back to rearming and reequipping their military.

            The problem isn’t that NATO can trounce Russia; it’s that Russia is deluded enough to try. If the US left NATO, or even just showed that they wouldn’t come to the aid of Europe, that would send a strong signal to Russia that the Baltics etc are vulnerable and he’d doubt eNATO’s resolve to fight for, say, a few border villages and towns in Latvia – and that’s where it gets messy.

            If we don’t attack then, NATO shows it has no teeth and falls apart. If we do, it could escalate, potentially to full-blown nuclear war when Russia starts losing. The best bet is to have strong militaries across the alliance to deter war in the first place.

            2.5% might have been enough prior to the severe cuts of the last 15 years that have hamstrung our armed forces, but nowhere near enough to rebuild it to a credible force resembling even our 2009 armed forces in terms of size and depth.

            Really, 3% would do it.

          • I don’t seem to have the option to reply directly to “Pete ( the original from years ago)” here! One point on your comparisons with Australia’s defense budget, they don’t fund an independent nuclear deterrent with their 2%, from our circa 2.2% we do and it claims a huge chunk of that.

          • A recent report in the media has suggested that SDSR has come up with a figure of 2.75%. A financial commitment that the Treasury is unhappy about.

          • Because we’re only indirectly trying to deter capability what we’re actually trying to do is deter intent. It doesn’t matter if the Russian armed forces are not qualitatively up to the job if Putin still believes he can win he has history of doing something recklessly stupid. He may walk away from the Ukraine conflict politically secure holding onto Crimea and a large chunk of Eastern Ukraine I’m not sure history will paint him the great loser the Western commentariat seem to think he is. He may want to try “losing” again.

    • And no stealth. Less survivable, inferior situational awareness, inferior ISTAR capability. And at the senior end of its development path. An excellent aircraft. But F35 will be around until 2070+. The RAF would rather have more F35s.

      • Still a very capable aircraft, with lower support costs and a much higher UK industrial footprint. Not every operation will require 5th generation stealth capabilities.

      • F-35B will eventually be more capable, thats when it gets the software update and can carry more than paveway 4 and a couple of air to air missiles.
        Another batch of Typhoons could be in service before the software update lands and am pretty sure the RAF would prefer Tempest which will have stealth and all the tech.

          • Well listening to what Trump is currently saying regards Greenland – and how that could effect NATO- I would suggest we need to give additional consideration to the potential impact to our military his attitude could have long term.
            I think Tempest could end up being more important than we realised.

      • And more order for F35 does have to be the B version once there enough or carrier strike an oder for the A could ge placed that has more range, weapons and performance than the B.

        However the problem is the Typhoon assembly lines, which is more a industrial decision than a strategic decision on fleet mix.

        • Has to be F35B, the A has so little common parts that you’re effectively introducing a new plane to the RAF. So separate spares, separate training for maintainers and pilots. Also the F35A uses a different refuelling system that is not used by the RAF.

          • It has to be the B variant. Otherwise, the bean counters could count each F35b as one less Tempest. If the Royal Navy has all the F35B by the mid-2030s, the RAF can be confident in building its own Tempest numbers.

      • Indeed, Robert. And from what I’ve recently read the RAF is looking to operate Typhoon & Lightning II (I hate calling an aircraft after a number!) in a self-supporting strike package. And to do that the service needs more than 47 Lightning IIs.

      • Are you sure about that with ECRS.2?

        People I’ve talked to, who know, say otherwise.

        Sure Typhoon isn’t as stealthy as F35 but it is a lot more stealthy than you might think.

        The main thing is the very wide range of integrated weapons Typhoon carries.

      • If we bought F-35As then it means a 3rd aircraft type, a 3rd OCU and a 3rd pool of spare airframes, as well as a 3rd logistics train for spare parts. F-35s of all varieties cost more to maintain.

        Plus the cost of upgrading to Block IV, enabling the use of Meteor, SPEAR etc.

        It would end up more expensive than ordering more Typhoons in the long run, with much less benefit for UK industry and also no guarantee of spares.

    • Not only that the US haven’t programmed integration of Meteor onto F-35. At least with Typhoon the UK has design authority.

    • Nope. T2 and T3. Only T3 will receive the ECRS MK2 radar. Hopefully the contract will extend to T2. But Many other upgrades are being implemented to both tranches. Computing power. Defensive aids, navigation, weapon systems. Striker 2 DHMD among many others.

  1. And then why not do more? It must be quicker to update existing than totally new build as an interim before Tempest?

  2. Completely of topic but did anyone else notice in the photo of Maria Eagle and two other gents in front of the first British made Boxer all pointing to the sign “Made in Britain” which wasn’t even put on straight!! I don’t know if it’s my eyesight or the angle of the shot or if it’s a large fridge magnet, but come on, not a good look! 🇬🇧

    • Apparently that was all stage managed, for her benefit. I read the first Brit built Boxer was produced last year.

      • Morning Daniele, yes, the photo had that quality about it. Reminded me a bit of the “Faulty Towers” sign. It made me smile. Roll on with the Boxers. Any talk of new variants for the UK, like Skyguard shorad happening?
        Off topic, but hopeful everyone is surviving the awful weather in the UK. The military has to operate in all that too. I have family near Bournemouth and Bristol so getting updates.

        • First UK built Boxer was at Telford back over 30 years ago
          When they found out you couldn’t drive the chassis without a pod on it..whoops
          Seriously we did miles of testing, before the MOD decided it was too..Big, heavy, expensive…oh, and couldn’t fit in the garages at ITDU…
          GERMANY was gifted all the tooling and jigs..just in case FRES was stillborn..which it was..anyone remember a purchase that went right for MoD?
          Back when they wanted to buy Swift but wound up with Hunter.?

  3. It would be nice to have a single engine light fighter to buy in numbers for cheaper operations, possibly, they they could go through with the light fighter variant of Aeralis. I guess that would be more of a job for UCAVS if we get any in great numbers.

  4. Next tranche of 24 f35 plus 24 more of either type or mix of both gets fast jet numbers up to more realistic level. If its going to be a deterrant need to do that sooner rather than later.

  5. I very much doubt that another batch of Typhoons will be ordered and suspect the SDR outcome will confirm that 90 – 100 Typhoons plus 70 or so F35B will suffice for UK needs into the next decade. Sorry to be pessimistic but I honestly think our current Government is set on running this country into the ground.

  6. In the end to keep running the squadrons it has the RAF needs 200 front line single seat fighters…with what it will have 96 single seat and 44 F35B it’s about 60 airframes down..so it needs an order of about that number or squadron numbers will end up dropping off before they start bringing up the 6th generation fighter..

    For comparison in 2014 the RAF had 120 single seat typhoons and with that number it only had 4 squadrons, OCU and test and evaluation… it will drop to 96 single seat typhoons and yet have 7 squadrons, OCU, test and evaluation and Falklands fight….

  7. No way will the current Labour fascist government order any more Typhoons, or in fact any new kit that has not already been ordered and cannot be cancelled without big penalty payments! We all know what is needed but it’s absolutely irrelevant to the Government as they have a plan, and that does not involve a strong, independent UK with a proud population!

    • Labour, “fascist”? Didn’t realise you were a closet communist. That accusation about Labour is only made by people who think Corbyn is a centrist.

  8. 48 f35b for the Royal Navy , a similar nunber of f35a for the RAF and a further 24 typhoons to complete the mix should give us a balanced fighter force going forward . Not gonna happen though . No increase in defence spending and more cuts on the way .

  9. Other possibilities is f35c. Better range than the b, already has refuelling probe, common support as b so i frastructure is in place. and if the carriers are upgraded to cat and trap as has long been talked about can be available from start I stead of waiting on delivery times.
    If a cheaper alternative is required, maybe grippen d for home defense and advanced jet training (as hawk t2 are starting to be retired, releasing more typhoons to whatever bomb a straw village duty is required abroad, and increasing aircraft type.

    • Stella, carriers were not in the end FFNW cats and traps. The cost and time for such a refit would be huge, and we would have each cqrrier out of service for many years. Plus you would have to add on an angled flight deck.

    • • F35C, not compatible with any air to air refuelling system used by RAF.
      • Low commonality with F35B so you’re almost doubling support costs.
      • Requires far more frequent initial and refresher training for pilots for cat and traps certification.
      • Cost of modifying carriers would see minimum 2 new frigates cancelled.
      • Completely tied to USN, the only other operator of the F35C

  10. Current FJ numbers are woefully small for anything other than peace time and are unable to sustain much more than deployed detachments. CAS at scale isn’t possible whilst there’s little room for redundancy

  11. Monitoring demand….aka if we can bag orders from Turkey or Saudi we can leep Wharton busy and go ahead with F-35B and avoid upsetting Donald

    • I suspect that is probably what they mean, or it could be that they are looking at the present typhoon fleet against airframe hours and fatigue usage and deciding how many more airframes they need to buy to maintain squadron numbers. People forget that fast jets are actually a consumable item it’s not a ship with a defined life.

      • Indeed: what the country needs is probably 24 new Typhoons; what we are politically locked into is 24 35Bs. Hey ho! I wish HMG good luck in navigating a good solution to the conundrum.

  12. It is fascinating reading about all these numbers of Typhoons of different tranches being tossed about like paper darts. Who and what exactly is the threat these planes will be needed to face down? The same one that is currently using barely seaworthy ships to drag their anchors over communication cables? I think we need to come down to earth when thinking of defence priorities. We cannot even adequately defend our own children in the U.K.

  13. Enjoy the optimism on numbers guys. Every Labour defence review and most Tories have been nothing but cuts, 500 million cuts already. They could not wait for the can kicking to stop. Any more I suspect we will fall below 2%., yes they will be jam tomorrow, but you can look at Starmers promise of council tax freezes : await your increased council tax in April. Uncle Sam won’t be happy either.

  14. The UK needs 30 to 40 new build Typhoons with upgrades including conformal fuel tanks (more range while freeing up under wing stores points for armament) and more powerful XG40 (EJ2000) engines with at least 10% extra thrust helping with the strike role. Forget the f35, no more UK orders for the F35, concentrate on developing the Typhoon fully (including a naval variant) and the Tempest (also naval capable).

  15. Translation for those that do not speak government. “We know the RAF needs 12 to 30 tranche 4 Typhoons to replace the retiring tranche 1 Typhoon, but Rachel from accounts has crashed the economy, so she won’t give us any money.

  16. Rather than buy more 4 gen fighters we should buy extra F35B. They would be more survivable and probably less expensive then the T4. It would also give extra flexibility in using the platform at sea and on land.

    • The latest price I could find for Eurofighter is in the 140-148 million euro range. F-35B are $160 million each in the US FY25 budget request.

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