Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson has signed a £1.51bn deal to purchase five E-7 aircraft.

The E-7 fleet will replace the current Sentry aircraft and ensure the continued delivery of the UK’s Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) capability.

Named ‘Wedgetail’ by the Australian Department for Defence, the E-7 aircraft can fly for long periods of time and manage the battlespace from the sky.

Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said:

“The E-7 provides a technological edge in an increasingly complex battlespace, allowing our ships and aircraft to track and target adversaries more effectively than ever. This deal also strengthens our vital military partnership with Australia.

We will operate state-of-the-art F-35 jets and world-class Type-26 warships, and this announcement will help us work even more closely together to tackle the global threats we face. “

Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier said:

“Today’s announcement about the procurement of five E-7 ‘Wedgetail’ Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft is excellent news for both the RAF and wider Defence. This world-class capability, already proven with our Royal Australian Air Force partners, will significantly enhance our ability to deliver decisive airborne command and control and builds on the reputation of our E3D Sentry Force.

Along with Defence’s investment in other cutting-edge aircraft, E-7 will form a core element of the Next Generation Air Force, able to overcome both current and future complex threats.


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Joshua
Joshua
1 year ago

I think you have no idea what a Wedgetail does.

Martin
Martin
1 year ago

The E7 is much more than a radar, it’s a giant flying AESA. It can jam radars at the same time as carrying out AEW. Also the media makes a lot about S400 but it’s effective range is nothing like claimed. A radar like the one on the E7 May even be able to blind any missile fired at such range.

E7 is a great capability, the USAF will be most jealous. 6 would have been nice but 5 is better than nothing.

GWM
GWM
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin

Only worry is the Radar is quite an old design, how long before the parts are obsolete and can’t be obtained anymore?

Chris J
1 year ago
Reply to  GWM

The MESA on the E-7 is one of the most modern and advanced airborne radars currently available. Obsolescence is absolutely not a concern.

farouk
farouk
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris J

Chris wrote:
The MESA on the E-7 is one of the most modern and advanced airborne radars currently available. Obsolescence is absolutely not a concern

Chris,
The Feb issue of Combat Aircraft ran a really good article on the 737AEWCat the top of page 71 . I hope you don’t mind if I post (don’t tell) a few photos of the article. Hopefully you can read it on screen. (the picture will delete after 7 days)
comment image

farouk
farouk
1 year ago
Reply to  farouk

Part 2
comment image

GWM
GWM
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris J

Not really its an early AESA design built in small numbers,just saying not the latest tech and could get difficult to support in the future especially as the U.S. did not buy it.

Jack Wyatt
Jack Wyatt
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris J

If you google Australian Aviation and Wedgetail upgrade, you’ll find an article on the continuing upgrades of the RAAF E7s. The good thing about buying US, is it guarantees an upgrade pathway. The site won’t allow me to post the link at this stage.

Nick C
Nick C
1 year ago

I think that you will need this type of technology for the foreseeable future, because the info it gives will be very useful in the build up to conflict, and if that allows us to dominate the battle space then it proves its worth. What might be of concern is that , as usual we are replacing existing with less , and at a time when we are looking to for instance go back East of Suez, and therefore you can postulate that we will needmore of this capability, not less. Also did anyone pick up an interesting snippet from… Read more »

T.S
1 year ago
Reply to  Nick C

Did you also pick up on the cost they are paying for their P8’s? I can’t remember the exact figure, but if I’m correct in saying we are paying £3 billion for 9 aircraft, let’s just say the US are paying nearly half the price as is per unit!

Ollie Beckett
Ollie Beckett
1 year ago
Reply to  T.S

TS the US are also ordering a lot more so the price per unit would obviously go down.

Julian1
Julian1
1 year ago
Reply to  Ollie Beckett

I thought the whole point of ordering with/via USN is that we received their savings based on economies of scale?

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian1

Of course not Julian…..hence why we should not think that any future trade deal with the US is going to be beneficial to the UK.

Matthew East
1 year ago
Reply to  T.S

What you need to take into account is the USN would have already done the investments in training, support, infrastructure, spares etc something the UK hasn’t and would likely be included in this budget. If you actually look into the direct contracts given to Boeing Lot 10 for the P8’s was for 19 Aircraft at $2.5 billion with the UK making up about 21% of that expense with 4 RAF aircraft in that order or around $126.7m per a P-8.

Ian Skinner
1 year ago

Excellent news, I hope they keep the name, Airseeker was such an awful name for Rivet- Joint.

Rokuth
Rokuth
1 year ago

RGR,

Falklands War. The British did not have any AEW&C aircraft. If they did, the British fleet would have been warned much earlier of incoming bandits, intercepted them ,and prevented the loss of several ships and crew.

That’s why the FAA still has Crowsnest on Merlins. It’s still a valid platform. And with some imagination, can be used to co-ordinate UAVs, and other aircraft to attack and defend.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago

Excellent.

We had 7 Sentry with 1 long out of use I believe.

Is 5 sufficient?

Fedaykin
1 year ago

The RAF hasn’t come close to utilising all those Sentry for many years.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Fedaykin

Why? Airframe? Crews? Obsolete?

Ben Goffin
Ben Goffin
1 year ago

Frequent and very high cost maintenance. I wouldn’t be surprised if we had a higher availability rate with 5 Wedgetails than we would with 6 or even 7 Sentries.

Fedaykin
1 year ago

A mix of reasons, Serviceability and Availability is a big reason. Crew availability is no doubt another reason. The 707 is an old airframe so parts availability can be a challenge albeit that is technically Northrop Grummans problem as part of their support agreement. The truth is the MOD has been cheap and failed to invest in the fleet, the UK has the odd situation of having some of the newest E3 in service that could operate for many more years as they have plenty of fatigue life left but they have the oldest system fit in comparison to other… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Fedaykin

Sorry just seen reply.

Thank you

Robert Blay
1 year ago

Yes, we have only been operating 4 E3’s for a good few years now.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago

It is so much more than that RGR.

And in a major confrontation with a peer enemy would be well to the rear of the battlespace.

Article didn’t say when we will get our mitts on these.

Not another decade procurement like Posiedon surely?

Steve
Steve
1 year ago

Press release stated early 20s, so sometime before 2025 I guess.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

For the first one of course, all 5 is probably 2030

Martin
Martin
1 year ago

5 new aircraft on 737 airframes will be much better than 6 E3’s in 707 airframes, availability will go up. Remember the money to buy these is coming for the Budget to upgrade the 6 E3’s. Also with crowsnest Merlin’s and F35B the UK has other AEW capability. E7 providing targeting data for forward deployed F35’s armed with meteors is probably the worlds most deadly A2A combination. The UK will be operating in a whole new league. Even the USA can’t match that at present on a plane for plane basis. USN and USAF Pilots are said to be thoroughly… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin

Good post.

ISTAR and wider intelligence capabilities one of our trump cards.

Wish we could keep the R1s as our ISTAR assets have been expanding over the last decade.

Steve Salt
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin

Not 737 Max airframes I hope.

John Pattullo
John Pattullo
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Salt

the airframe is fine – its the software that seems to be the trouble

Julian1
Julian1
1 year ago
Reply to  John Pattullo

They are not 737 max, they are legacy 737. The size and position of the 737 max engines makes the airframe more prone to stall and hence the software. They are related

Lee1
Lee1
1 year ago
Reply to  John Pattullo

Not exactly true. The software is needed because the airframe is badly designed and is unstable during takeoff! Basically the engines have been moved forwards compared to previous 737s and also has more powerful engines on top of the fact that the centre of lift has moved rearwards on the wings. The underside of the engines also creates lift at a certain angle which increases the not pitch even higher. This means that they have had to install software to force the nose back down automatically. However no one was told about this as it would have meant extra training… Read more »

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Lee1

Wow…how damaging is that! If it had been made by a British manufacturer it would be the end. But…vested interests!

Lee1
Lee1
1 year ago
Reply to  Lee1

Indeed, The US always protects its companies no matter how bad the issue. However I am pretty sure many airlines will cancel the orders pronto as passengers will not be happy to travel on these things. One airline has already cancelled its order for 49 of them I am sure more will follow.

Julian1
Julian1
1 year ago
Reply to  Lee1

Ok, precise post, mine was laymans terms 😉

Thanks for the advice, I will follow your lead

Julian1
Julian1
1 year ago
Reply to  Lee1

Good for airbus and the neo family then. Let’s hope Broughton and Filton stay open

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  Lee1

Great reply there Lee 1.

Elshad Karbasi
Elshad Karbasi
1 year ago

Another reason to finally fit booms to the A330 MRTTs like most other countries.

HF
HF
1 year ago

Remember Duncan Sandra 1957 Defence white paper ?

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  HF

Duncan Sands?

Hf
Hf
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Didn’t notice the typos !

Hf
Hf
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Didn’t notice the typos ! Sandys

keithdwat
keithdwat
1 year ago
Reply to  HF

basically the report said that all manned aircraft were obsolete and that you didn’t need it with the advent of missiles, the English Electric Lightning was called to last interceptor! Boy were they wrong.

So many promising innovative aircraft projects were cut leading to many famous British aircraft manufacturers closing down or uniting due to the lack of orders and the future looked bleak for them, today all those companies are know as BAE! All of them! Shorts Brothers survived somehow! It was this that lead BAE today to have such a monopoly on industry.

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  keithdwat

Duncan sands was allegedly involved in the Duchess of Argyll case. What a women….by all accounts!

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

I of course meant ‘woman’ However, if she were plural, it might account for her appetites?

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

My bad spelling again….it should be Duncan Sandys….is there an auto correct going berserk here

Hf
Hf
1 year ago
Reply to  HF

I don’t ‘remember’ it in that way either !

peter moger
1 year ago
Reply to  Hf

History isn’t a matter of memory, it’s about reading and researching the past. You can’t understand now without viewing it through the prism of the past!

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 year ago

The RAF E-3 are relatively young by B707/C-135 standards.
I wonder if we could re-purpose those E-3 to boom tanker duties?
So take off the radome, fit a cargo door, remove the radar consoles, slide in a fuel tank & raid the boneyard for retired C-135 boom.
Before Airtanker puts in a bill, point out this is a boom only capability so does not clash with their hose & drogue.

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

Wouldn’t a C135 boom require an operator station in the tail?

Lee1
Lee1
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

As far as I know they are remotely operated from the cockpit.

Daniel
Daniel
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Having been aboard a KC-135, the boom operator lies on his stomach in the read of the aircraft.

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel

And he’s got a window….and a ry long probe. Reminds me of the start of Dr Strangelove….kC135 refuelling a B52!

Martin
Martin
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

Much easier to fix the booms to the current Voyagers But then you would need an entire new training scheme for RAF. The current E3’s can be sold to the USA and France who are desperate for spares but no point in converting 30 year old + aircraft to tankers when we already have 14 better tankers we have to pay for. If we need extra tanker capacity then better to buy the kits for our A400M fleet. However now that almost every large RAF aircraft uses the boom system including the voyagers themselves it’s certainly time to start the… Read more »

Elshad Karbasi
Elshad Karbasi
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin

Agree. Lack of a boom on the MRTT is an example of gross short-sightedness.

Cam Hunter
Cam Hunter
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

We do need booms…

Daveyb
Daveyb
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

Nope, the airframes are goosed. It was found that to replace the obsolete radar and recondition the airframes was going to cost too much, so was actually cheaper to replace. One aircraft flying at 40K can cover most of the UK and they’re expected to stay up for at least 8 hours. So 3 on rotation should be good for the UK with one going through maintenance whilst the other is available for training deployment. I believe the Aussies have 6, so how come we are only getting 5?

Rob
Rob
1 year ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Look at a map, they have a lot of area to cover!

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Rob

Its not a helicopter, so will be doing circuits over the UK. Still think 5 is not enough though.

Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

We have operated only 4 E3s for many years, so yes, 5 is enough

Jason
Jason
1 year ago

GA is already making electronic warfare pods for Reaper size platforms

Julian
Julian
1 year ago

It depends on the state of Sentry, whether they can be updated at reasonable cost, and it might be “not long” before unmanned is the solution but how long is “not long”? There isn’t, as far as I am aware, something that could be ordered right now. I don’t disagree with your basic point but might this be a case of “dammed if we do, dammed if we don’t” for the MoD? HMG/MoD gets lots of criticism here for gapping capabilities – if the answers to my questions above are such that not replacing Sentinel now (or at least starting… Read more »

J
J
1 year ago

How easy would it be to stick some asraam on these kind of aircraft just for some protection? , actually I’d say that about every tanker/isr asset in the fleet- i know it’s not going to happen but considering how small the airforce is, a bit of extra protection would be a good idea in my mind. if it’s even possible

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  J

Might it not shoot itself down…..

Gavin Gordon
1 year ago

It is interesting that, as beam forming radars become more sophisticated, they’re potential as weapons in their own right is now rapidly being pursued, thus moving from the realms of AEW / jamming towards actively attacking incoming threats. At the moment I’m under the impression that primarily large combatants will be required to initiate this developement due to their energy generating capabilities i.e. warships, allbeit at eye watering cost. But clearly the capability is intended for all developing platforms over time. Obviously for many years now the term ‘radar’ has been anachronistic to all intents and purposes, so evidently ‘Spectrum… Read more »

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Spectrum Warfare….great, Captain Scarlet is back! This is the voice of the ministryofdefence!

Cam Hunter
Cam Hunter
1 year ago

Why can’t we British Along with Europe use an Airbus plane and build a similar capability to Wedgetail, hell even the p8s and rivet joints dam it lets fling sentinel in while were at it. Fly the airbus planes to the UK and convert them here, why not? Europe needs these capabilitys. Or is it so we can work with USA and Australia ect more closely with the Boeing planes.

Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Cam Hunter

It costs a huge amount of money to develop an Airbus, and the program would have to have started many years ago. It could be done, but at huge cost that Europe simple isn’t willing to pay.

expat
expat
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

But if these were frigates being bought from another country there would be up roar. Seems complex military aircraft can be bought from outside the UK but complex warships cannot. Hell, there’s massive support for building fleet support ships at inflated prices in the UK, its strange military aircraft production gets no where near the same support.

Matthew East
1 year ago
Reply to  expat

It all comes down to jobs. The aero space industry in the UK ajusted years ago to supporting global companies and as such is secure while the shipbuilding industry has been slower to adjust and as such the job losses are in the news creating the publicity to ‘build all ships in the UK’ when they should instead be shifting away from cheap low skilled ships and towards more high quality technical and military ships. Its the same here in Australia.

Dan
Dan
1 year ago
Reply to  Cam Hunter

Why should the Brits spend billions more on a system like the SAAB/Airbus AEW system that hasn’t even been built, tested or flown yet and probably wouldn’t even be operations for another 5-10 years? Or the Israeli aircraft that is geared towards a very different set of operational needs? The Wedgetail is an operational aircraft that the Aussies have spent the time and money to work out all the kinks that is ready right now. Hands off to the Brits for making a smart decision.

Paul T
Paul T
1 year ago
Reply to  Cam Hunter

Probably down to mitigating Risk – Nimrod AEW MK1 didn’t go too well,add to that the MR4 saga its no surprise a Capable off the shelf solution is a safer bet.

Matthew East
1 year ago
Reply to  Cam Hunter

Because that would be reinventing the wheel at increased time and cost at a time that the UK can’t afford to do so or Europe for that matter? If something already exists that does what you need it to do (and more) then you grab it. If your order is large enough then you can make the expense work to your national interest by increasing local content. That being said Europe has had two big wins by selling Australia the Hunter class FFG and the Attack class SSG but you want to complain over 5 aircraft that will likely be… Read more »

dan
dan
1 year ago

The USAF cancelled it’s JSTARS replacement because they think any manned aircraft that performs that mission against a near peer enemy would be very vulnerable to attack. They are looking at creating sats or UAV or both to fulfill this need in the future. Probably the same reasoning for the Brits wanting to scrap their current ground mapping jet too.

Ron
Ron
1 year ago

It good to hear that the RAF command and control is getting a reasonable upgrade. Possibly these would be the last of the manned aircraft. With these five E7s plus the nine P8s it is a pity that the RAF cannot look at the airframe for other uses such as tanker capability or electronic intel gathering or even a flying command centre for drone control. Can anyone tell me if it is an issue with the airframe of the E3s or the electronics. My reason for the question is would it be possible to have two or three of the… Read more »

Cam Hunter
Cam Hunter
1 year ago
Reply to  Ron

Also Norway will use Lossiemouth at times and will share North Atlantic patrols with the uk. What about our rivet joint Aircraft.

John Clark
John Clark
1 year ago

To answer your question Ron, it’s airframe and avionics. Our E3’s are really creaking now, in an increasingly difficult and expensive to maintain condition. Continued use of the remaining examples is not really feasible beyond 2025, the Sentry has to go. This is excellent news, the E7 will be a massively important asset for the UK and NATO. Future upgrades will without doubt be centered on focused electronic attack. A real game changer! On a plus side, we should get a few £££ on trade in with Boeing ( if not, why not), the USAF can canibalise our E3’s to… Read more »

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  John Clark

It would be interesting to know if this is true or not, considering the US has decided not to replace their AWACS with the E7. Yes it has some capability enhancements but it also has some reductions, in range and 360 degree coverage. Which is better at spotting modern jets, who knows, all we know is this was cheaper than upgrading our current airframes that should have been upgraded a fair few years ago.

DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Unlike the SAAB Globaleye and the Israeli Eitam, the E7 does have 360 degree radar coverage. The top hat section of the fin contains the transmitter receiver modules that point forwards and rearwards to cover the AESA flat panels natural blind spots. In the azimuth plane a planar array has a field of view of 120 degrees. It can be made to see past this but you run in to side-lobe and performance issues and the signal processing requirement is enormous to resolve a target. The E7 will be the better performer that the E3D’s AN/APY-1 is now decades old… Read more »

Matthew East
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

Should be noted that the E-7 can divert power to look at a particular area (at the expense of others) increasing the range and accuracy further.

Mike
Mike
1 year ago

Speaking of Tempest-https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/03/22/think-tank-to-italy-join-uk-tempest-program-then-try-to-merge-it-with-franco-german-effort/?utm_source=clavis

John Clark
John Clark
1 year ago

I think it’s simply a case of spending priorities Steve. The US had a large fleet of E3’s and the constant need to rebuild ancient C135 derivatives, gives a ready source of expertise and manufacturing to keep these birds flying. So for now, it’s simply easier for them to rework airframes and upgrade systems. Also, allied air forces are helping pay for the program of works, the NATO and French fleets for one. When the rebuild of our fleet was costed up, it was a no brainer to renew the fleet, interesting that France didn’t reach the same conclusion though.… Read more »

James M
James M
1 year ago
Reply to  John Clark

France kept up with the USAF upgrade program for the E-3, whereas we didn’t. To upgrade to the newest standard AND renew the airframes was simply too much. The French would have a smaller upgrade cost as there aircraft are an upgrade ahead of ours. My bet is on them retiring them for the Airbus/SAAB system in 15 yrs or so

Martin
Martin
1 year ago

I dare say many in the USAF would love to get E7 they just don’t have the cash, replacing the entire RC135 derived platform systems is a mammoth task beyond the US tax payers willingness to pay. Best thing we can look to do is support our key ally by investing in capabilities like Sentinal, Wedgtail and Voyager that the US will lack. I would love to see 12 P8’s and even 9 E7’s but the Budget is not their and there are more important things to spend the money on. It’s also certainly the case that other drone based… Read more »

T.S
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin

Just found some info: first delivery planned for 2023. Conversion work to be done by Marshall’s in the UK.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  T.S

Thanks TS.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 year ago

Amazing purchase. What has come over the MOD? Surely a 5 year competitive evaluation of Saab, Nimrod, A320 and Britain Norman Islander would have been a better way to go.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul.P

GW?

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 year ago

I think so….good work by him. Very welcome decisiveness.

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago

Herodotus mate, When are you going to allow TH back ?

Just Askin !

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

TH will have to speak for himself….meanwhile I’ve just got back from London. Over 1 million protesting for a second referendum…..massive turnout. A pathetically small group of brexiteers tried a counter march near Trafalgar Square wearing yellow vests. Not too bright really as the police arrested them….best bit of the day?????

Steven
Steven
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Thanks for providing another example of the institutional bias, the sooner we get our country back, the better.

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Steven

The Lone Ranger and Tonto are surrounded by Indians
” Looks like we’ve had it this time Tonto”
“What Um mean we Kemosabe”?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

“Over 1 million protesting for a second referendum” No. To cancel Brexit. I’d laugh if this second referendum arrives and Remain is not an option. That question was already decided. As for the million. The 17 million plus say hi! There is no need for vast numbers of leavers to appear on the streets. They already spoke. I read that nonsense all the time in everything from the Guardian to the Observer to the Independent, all highlighting the low numbers of leave protesters at events that somehow the first vote was a mirage. Laughable. There are some mightily pissed off… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus
Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

No Captain. Please.

One is enough!

At least one can communicate nicely with H when the mood takes him and the B word is not on the menu!

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago

1 million eh ? WOW.

Actually though, I never seen so many Losers In One Place !

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

If we end up with a hard Brexit, you’ll see 66million losers in one place!

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

A second referendum should be on a different question. In 2016, we were asked if we wanted to stay in the EU. The answer was no. You cannot ask that question again, for at least 25 years or we risk referendums on the same subject every 3 to 5 years, which would be a farce. You could have a referendum on what type of leave. That has not been asked & would be a valid question. A choice of a hard or soft Brexit. Hard Brexit means leave the EU without a deal, but negotiate a Canada style deal over… Read more »

Herodotus
1 year ago

Absolutely wrong. We can ask the same question on the basis that a huge number of our people are now better informed about the issues. There will be no further referenda after the next one, as the vast majority of MPs are remainers. They would sack any leader of their party that tried to even question membership of the EU. Do you really think that any political leader is going to put this country through it again! There are large numbers of young people of voting age that will vote in favour of remaining. It’s their future…they have the right… Read more »

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Great News the withdraw Article 50 petition now stand at nearly 5 million. This is unheard of in Parliamentary petitions. Go on, vote now…lets take it to 10 million plus in the next few days!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Now standing at 5,016,000 since I last posted 13 minutes ago!!! Its a tidal wave folks….middle Britain fights back against extremism!

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

So if there was another referendum & remain won by a whisker, how would Parliament turn down a request for a third if the EU demanded something the UK did not want? Lets face it, Cameron did not want the 2016 referendum, but he was forced into it by tory support defecting to UKIP. If by another knife edge referendum result we stay in the EU, that will breathe life into UKIP or some new Brexit party. By the way, it is not middle Britain vs extremism. It is anywheres vs somewheres. Read the book “The road to somewhere” by… Read more »

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

Yes, John, Exactly, It’s not Middle Britain V’s Extremism, That’s just how the Losing Minority would like It to be. It’s yet another Lie and a continuation of the spoiler Tactics from a bunch of Bad Losers. They’ll throw everything out of their prams to try to stop the Majority. It’s going to be an Interesting Country to live in If Democracy Dies a horrible Death and these Moaners get their way. As a firm Be-Leaver, I’m looking on in Horror at the potential outcome should the Peoples Vote be Overturned. Europe needs the UK way more than the UK… Read more »

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

I think that the appetite for further referenda would be seveverely diminished. Governments would rightly avoid such a choice….as would public opinion. It may well breath life into UKIP but, as with all minority parties, there actual impact is negligible. I’m not saying there would not be problems ahead, but the fiasco over the last couple of years would dampen any enthusiasm for further change. Despite the result over the first referendum, I don’t believe that there is the level of active support on the brexit side that would sustain any real opposition over the long term. Much of the… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

John. Captain. Thanks for answering.

I was going to but I’m still seething, and thoroughly insulted, so won’t be giving this “extremist” any more of my time, effort, or politeness, which I’ve tried to do several times.

“Extremism”

17 million plus wanting to be an independent nation controlling our laws, borders, trade, to our advantage, after seeing enough of the EU since 1973. And this is “Extremism”

A Troll all along. I suspected as much.

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

Daniele, You’re entirely Welcome. Your blood Is not the only stuff boiling mate. My own own is too, not to mention all other bodily Fluids Truth Be Known.
All I see Is moaning and Hatred of the UK and It’s Democratic Process.

Nothing short or Treason In my Book.

You got to love a greek Troll though. Even If they are a couple of Thousand Years Out of Touch.

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Over 5million on the petition, wow the botnets are busy! Hope they remember to stop them when the petition passes the number of voters in the U.K. Apparently Jacob Rees-Mogg has signed it over 800 times, even beating famed democrat Idi Amin at 700 signings ?

Herodotus
1 year ago

Simplistic, enchoate and lacking any real understanding. You are easily offended for someone that likes to hand out invective as often as you do.

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Hero !!!!!, Mate, Step away from your Mirror , and please stop all that Typing with one Hoof, It’s just making you look an ASS.

Herodotus
1 year ago

It’s now 5,193,000….will it get 10million or will it fissle out at 6million. I reckon it might just get to 7 million!

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Would you like Us to send you a Tissue ?

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

Your Climax Is a long time Coming.

John Snow’s “Swingometer’ is still looking pretty limp though. Seems to be Leaning a long way to the left. Incredibly limply by the looks of things. Nearly 12 million short of any argument worth listening to.

Herodotus
1 year ago

It’ On C4 news….thanks for that. The petition was languishing somewhat until the BBC got hold of it and publicised the death threats against its author. C4 news has got to be worth a couple of million extra.

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 year ago

Irony.
UKIP was boosted by the proportional representation of Euro MP elections. It was kept out of the UK parliament by first past the post. Getting out of the EU destroys UKIP as an elected body of politicians.
Brexiteers are called extremist, populist bigots, yet the next Euro elections are likely to vote into the European Parliament, many extremist, populist bigots from the 27 EU nations. These are the people the remainers want to stick with!
We are through the looking glass.

Herodotus
1 year ago

I haven’t yet met a remainer that thought that the EU was perfect. I certainly don’t….there are many aspects that I would like to see reformed. But I believe that this is best done by campaigning from within the EU. I think that the Labour and Conservative breakaway MPs have made a mistake….they should have stayed in their parties and fought for change! Liberal democracy demands that, at times, you have to rub shoulders with those that you wouldn’t necessarily invite to your house. That’s political pluralism and, in any case, when was politics any thing other than a ‘Mad… Read more »

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 year ago

For the last two decades, whenever a popular vote anywhere in Europe went against the wishes of the EU elite, said EU elite has said it has heard the people & promised to reform. Then after a few months it quietly dropped any thought of reform. This has happened many times in many EU countries. Nobody believes their promises of reform any more. They need to put up or shut up. By the way, I would happily switch back to support for the EU, if it gave up its dreams of a authoritarian European Empire ruled by a small corrupt… Read more »

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

Exactly John.

I just read our Friend’s latest reply and Just can’t see his logic. He Doesn’t like the EU, want’s It Reformed, Prefers to Rub Shoulders with those you really wouldn’t Invite in to your House and thinks that Politics Is some sort of Mad Hatters Tea Party.

Now If that Isn’t a Brexiteer’s Viewpoint then I’m a Greek Troll.

Or an extremist ! FFS.

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

They’re Out There !!!

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

Well of course you can’t see….can’t work out which eye to put you patch over!

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

Actually, so would I. But we are where we are. I don’t underestimate the influence of Britain, when it is united, to achieve change in Europe. We have a significant history in garnering support in Europe. We let this laps post war…somehow believing that because we won the war (debatable) we didn’t need Europe! Post war Labour Party policy was very lax towards Europe. We should have signed up for the Schuman Plan in 1948. Europe would now be a better entity than it is. We are good at stringing counties together without overweening political claptrap….we can do it again.… Read more »

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Christ !!!!! I’m now finding It really hard to understand how you are so In Favour of the Moaners.

Oh and, Britain most certainly Did Win the Second World war after Standing Alone for
almost Half of It’s duration. And Despite the “Red Plan”.

Don’t ever Think Our Efforts to free Europe by Dying In every part of the World was just a Token Gesture.

The Majority of us still Remember their ultimate Sacrifice.

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

I’ll explain one day CPW….just don’t take it all to heart. We have a magnificent heritage in controlling world events. Much of this has been replaced by the pre-eminence of the USA. Having spent many years in the middle-east, it is clear to me that our reputation is still significant. We do operate way above our economic impact. We have still a lot to give…and it is appreciated and respected by many nations. Just have confidence in our ability to change things for the better!

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

I Have that Confidence . And so have the majority . that’s why We voted to leave this Corrupt and Anti UK , Union.

Your defence of our Incarceration and servitude just doesn’t add up to your Hatred of the Majority decision Afforded by a Democratic and Legally Binding Vote.

Forgive me If You feel I’ve Taken that to Heart. and Forgive the Majority who might take It to another level If You “moaners’ manage to Scupper Our Democratic decision.

Your 5 or 6 million Fellow losers will probably dislike the Next Stage of this . Or so I Fear.

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

We were left pretty much bankrupt in 1945. Strangely, our ally, the USA emerged from WW2 twice as rich as when they entered. Our endeavours to keep the world free of tyranny were rewarded by a debt to the USA that wasn’t paid off untiil Blair’s premiership. Does that give you a clue to where my interests lie?

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

The Yanks shafted us by paying only 40 cents on the Dollar for UK assets in America, when we stood alone.
To be fair, we had shafted them in the early 1930s by reneging on our Great War debt to them.
Neither side is pure.

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 year ago

Britain lead Europe? Good luck saying that in Paris or Berlin.

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

Fortune favours the brave. It’s all a matter of confidence…something that the English have that others despise…yet admire. However, we need smarter politicians!

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 year ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Mrs May needs to be replaced by someone from the sensible, reasonable wing of Brexit. Not an anti-EU headbanger , but a smart Brexiteer, who knows when to be firm & when to be flexible. Mrs May usually gets that the wrong way round.
We need someone who will stand up for Britain, but also build a good relationship with our European neighbours.

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

John, It’s such a shame “Screaming Lord Such” Passed away a few years back.

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

Its interesting to note how many of his early 1960s policies became fact (votes for 18 year olds, Channel tunnel, longer pub opening hours). He was truly ahead of his time.
Also shows how little new thought goes on conservative/labour circles, that they had to nick monster raving loony ideas.

Herodotus
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

Yes, but he did question why there was only one monopolies and mergers commission. Stroke of genius that one….but igored as usual!

Nicholas
Nicholas
1 year ago

Now that the E-7 fleet will replace the current RAF Sentry aircraft. Why do the other nations using the Sentry like the USA , France and the Saudi’s, modify theirs and keep them current. Looks like the RAF let theirs go out of date, not to mention slowly scrapping one example. I am sure its too late for Britain to save money by getting the most out of their Sentry fleet by refurbishing them to the latest standards like the French and USA and getting another 10+ years out of them, but RAF let theirs go out of date making… Read more »