The Ministry of Defence has defended the combat effectiveness of the UK’s F-35B fleet after MPs pressed the department on how it intends to address the aircraft’s lack of a dedicated standoff strike weapon, the UK Defence Journal understands.
Ben Obese-Jecty MP asked the department what steps were being taken in response to the Public Accounts Committee’s report on the UK’s F-35 capability, which highlighted the absence of a standoff weapon for attacking ground targets from outside high-threat zones.
Responding, Defence Minister Luke Pollard said the F-35B’s fifth-generation design already provides a high level of battlefield survivability and targeting performance. He said the aircraft’s stealth, electronic warfare tools and threat-detection suite together “provide the capability to dominate a highly contested battlespace.”
Pollard argued that even without an organic standoff munition, the UK can still deliver long-range strike effects by exploiting the F-35’s data-fusion architecture and targeting feeds. He said the jet’s secure links allow it to pass “threat and advanced targeting information” to UK and allied forces in real time, coordinating with land, maritime and air platforms equipped with standoff weapons to “achieve a wider decisive Joint Fires effect.”
The Public Accounts Committee had previously warned that the lack of a standoff weapon was a material capability gap in high-threat environments, noting that integration of the planned Spear 3 missile has slipped into the early 2030s.
Pollard said future munitions planning for the F-35B will be detailed in the forthcoming Defence Investment Plan.
Will Small Diameter Bomb make the list in the defence equipment plan as an interim until Spear3….Like Spear, 8 could be carried internally.
I did read that the MoD were looking to acquire GBU-53B Stormbreaker (SDB 2). I think I misread it in the vain hope they were actually buying the weapon. But it seems it was purely investigative. Perhaps the the defense investment plan might shed some light on it.
Technically the F35B can carry 16 SDBs in total, with 8 internal and 4 under each wing, the A and C version can carry 25 of them.
Oops typo alert, should read 24 not 25 – duh!
Which plane will fire the new standoff weapons like Stratus UK is co-developping?
For France it will be Rafale and beyond. It may be ready soon… It is expensive, but for sead and dead, it may be better to be somewhat further away, even with some stealth. The Awacs hunt is not a joke either. And meteor seems not be the best weapons for this, given what China and Russia do on their side.
Hi Math. Initially it will definitely be Typhoon, as the UK has more control over the integration. A lot will also depend on when the missiles (LO and RS) are available for flight trials. Stratus will be one of the key weapons to arm GCAP as both the UK and Italy have it as a requirement, Japan may have other ideas, as they also have some home grown weapons that will likely see integration. The F35 is a big question, we cancelled the Storm Shadow integration to free up a slot for Stratus, but when that slot becomes available, only the F35’s joint project office and Lockheed Martin will know the dates.
Spear-3 is supposed to be the UK’s weapon of choice for SEAD/DEAD. It was supposed to have been integrated on the F35 by now, but severely delayed due to the TR-4 update being continually delayed. Hence why they have started doing some integration trials with the Typhoon. The Stratus RS will also have a SEAD/DEAD capability.
Meteor may surprise you on what its extreme range is, especially against much slower moving targets like an AEW platform.
I have heard that Cirus may be used in Awacs or tankers hunt…
I am puzzled by these delays. It is very long, no?
What about a long range strike drone class, to équipe mistral class, QE, italian et Spanish light carriers… These drones would be carrying long range weapons…
Hi Math,
The issue with the F35, is I believe down to coding the software for the Block 4 upgrade. From what I gather Lockheed Martin don’t have enough to do the work and validate it for certification. I’ve also heard that they contracted BAe to do some of the work for them. So hopefully it will now get down this side of 2030 and they can start the getting through the weapons integration backlog.
Both France and the UK have an awesome platform that could be used as a long range strike drone, which are the Neuron and Taurus respectfully. However, as both aircraft use a very highly swept wing, there approach speeds for carrier landings will likely be to high for any arrestor wire system. Besides if “Cirrus” Lo or RS weighs similar to Storm Shadow/Scalp, the platform that carries them will need a catapult launch or a monster of an engine for STOBAR type launching. The Chinese have a catapult fitted to their new Type 076 LHD, which is about the same length as used on their CATOBAR carrier. So it may be able to launch very heavy drones or even manned aircraft, such as a J35. To be brutally honest, a catapult system gives you so many advantages over other launch methods. The problem is the installation and maintenance costs. But if Turkey can use their modified Spanish LPD as a drone carrier, then why can’t France, Italy, Spain etc use theirs? The Ski ramp does help with take-off weight, the problem would be making sure the landing can be done safely.
Hi DaveyB
Neuron and Taurus were made as technology demonstrator. They were used to improve all softwares, communication links and stealth. The shape of a carrier based drone could be different, to lower stall speed. What would be needed anyway? I think it may be early warning and détection, and capacity to strike First at long range… Even a turboprop could be interesting.
What a load of bull. Clearly they aren’t the pilots who have to take these risks and to talk about them being able to provide the data fusion and targeting feeds isn’t exactly what the aircraft were acquired for as their prime function. Especially when operating from carriers. What actual long range strike weaponry are they supporting in this way, none airborne unless they can bring Typhoons in to the fray, ironic to say the least and rather wasteful exploitation of a carrier group. Yes all sounds good when spouted in complex word games but I wonder how practical, useful and effective in reality. All sounds rather like covering inadequacy and shortcomings with generous dollops of pr magic camouflage. Bet they have a committee for that, let’s hope the big words are not tested any time soon.
Can’t understand this under utilising of top notch defence assets. Will Italy and others besides the US be integrating anything different on their F35Bs to the UK? Be interesting to see and then ask more questions. Can the UK afford to wait until 2030s for Spear 3? Hopefully there’s an improved version by then and why not get it onto Typhoon’s sooner. What’s if your adversaries are better armed than you are? Everyone is continuously seeking advantage.
With this wait you could convert a QE carrier and buy Rafale! Joking of course! Kind of.
India will use rafale from a skyjump aircraft carrier, but i think they have arrested recovery.
They shall be able to carry Exocet missiles. So it is possible to go this way, in theory. Though, QE does not have arrested recovery, does it?
A motion of NO Confidence should be moved against the Government in the HoC regarding Defence. Is all I see are Lies, Half Truths and Obfuscation from the Government. I think they will try to wait out pres Trump on increasing defence spend beyond the current levels of 2.6%. They would rather spend our Taxes on their constituents of Asylum Seekers, Massed Immigrants and the Train Drivers than securing the Country against Invasion.
If it was the 17th or 18th century there would have been a Revolution by now. Of course its not, but people are getting increasingly angry and frustrated.
So get that No Confidence before the HoC.
And what other government is going to throw their all into defense exactly?
I hope the present Government will speed things up. It is a big problem for the RAF and FAA not to have any long range weapons except US ones for the F35Bs.
Answers needed as to when we will get Meteor or any other LR missiles on our planes. Maybe we should try installing them ourselves. Seems Israel has done this.
I hope GCAP gives the USA a run for their money and we keep it on track.
GCAP is fighting for funding with F35A
It appears the hardware and software is not up to scratch to deploy the weapons we want, that relys on waiting for LM
Could still integrate Storm Shadow, especially as we are building new inventories of them. If we can integrate them onto Soviet era Su-24s in Ukraine surely we can do that for an F-35 as well?
Yes, but that was needs must. The normal way makes sure it costs a fortune so the MIC cash in, my standard cynicism.
But, does it fit in a Bs internal weapons bay, and why would a stealth asset need Stormshadow with that long a stand off range? Surely Meteor, Spear 3, and an ASM are where we need to act.
Hi M8, Now turn that around and do the opposite, why bother buying more F35A at all, if you can avoid the need of a Stealth Aircraft by firing a long range stealthy missile. And let’s face it you aren’t stealthy in daylight no one has invented an invisibility cloud yet !
What concerns me is allthis emphasis on Stealth on Aircraft that by 2060 will be using 60 year old tech to hide in an aircraft that isn’t exactly top of the line in air to air ! Just remember the F117 was Stealthy until it wasn’t and someone figured out how to detect it and shoot one down.
Fact is the US MIC in the form of LM have so screwed up the software, broken so many promises and missed all their targets that the US just cancelled half of their yearly orders.
Life would have been so much easier if Cameloon and Odbourne had stuck it out converted the CAs and bought the F35C.
Well you know my view on the A purchase.
A simple gimik, and funding cut, dressed as news and an improvement.
4-2 to Scotland though!
Not to upset you DM, but F-35A can carry JSM & JSOW-C internally. Both off the shelf purchases that would make RAF F-35A more useful.
Good to know, John.
So we’re buying 12 for training, with a nuke role on the side, allegedly.
If we are buying 100 A, wonderful, buy them. But we’re not, and if we are, Tempest isn’t happening.
What fits in the Bs bay beyond Spear3?
Good question. Paveway IV with a JDAM-ER wingkit looks like a good idea to me, but even though it is a cheap upgrade, the MoD seems to have no money. AARGM-ER is being integrated on all 3 F-35 block 4 variants. Probably under the wings for B.
If you think that UK weapons would have been intergrated any faster had we bought the C model, you are having delusions.
Agreed and we should still be buying F35C not footling about with some ‘A’s. Sometime we should mod the Carriers to Catobar. In fact when POW goes in that should be the baseline.
yes you can integrate just about integrate any weapon, but Locheed Martin is the gatekeeper, and US its biggest customer prefers to sell US weapons
Uk F35 b is amazing but toothless the minister meant to say
TBFFBNW…UK weapons…just yet.
We make 15% of a plane that can’t use British weapons… something badly wrong there. I personally feel that we should suspend orders until such time as the F35 can fire British missiles – until it can it may be staelthy but it can’t do the job we want it for.
Let’s be real, we are by no means an important enough partner to the F-35 programme anymore to pull that stunt and expect anything from it.
This might have an impact if we were planning to buy 200 or so F-35s, but with the pitiful quantity we have and are getting, LM won’t care.
It’s also not as if we can just buy a different aircraft for our carriers, and they know that.
The answer is simple, just purchase the AGM-158 JASSM off the shelf and job done!! Why in God’s name do our government make such a complicated mess and leave our pilots devoid of this capability when we could very easily have one of the best stand off missiles in the world
Saw a snippet of a Janes article 12 Mar 25 discussing this. Looks like its on the list waiting for the Block 4 TR-3 upgrade. Why isn’t a longer range Brimstone in the mix too? And the Marte ER for Typhoon?
Isn’t SPEAR 3 basically a longer range Brimstone anyway?
Because this leaves us very dependent on the US for our munitions. The exact opposite of what we should be doing generally.
I saw a photo of a F-35C with LRASM under the wings, being tested in Sept 24.
As usual we are completely “armless” in combat!!
The answer given sounds like typical ministry gobbledegook , in other words we haven’t got a stand off weapon and will rely on our partners to do the job ( again ) . The same as with lack of escorts for the carriers . They give long winded answers to confuse and obsfucate , while really saying yes you are quite correct .
Bring back the Harriers !
(for anyone not really tuned in to humour or sarcasm, that comment is specially for you).
Why does the Minister feel the need to ‘defend’ a lack of standoff weapons?
Surely the correct answer would be “yes, not having standoff weapons reduces our capability. Yes, the F35 programme as a whole needs to produce more results. But the aircraft are in fact useful whether or not they have Spear or JSM, because they are still among the most capable aircraft on the planet”.
By 2030 I’d rather we had a couple of dozen extra tranche 5 Typhoons with Stratus than 24 F-35As with US gravity bombs and a place on a missile integration waiting list. Of course our F-35s are useful, and so are the Typhoons. However, buying too many planes for the RAF that don’t have stand-off strike capability may well be a waste of scarce resources, and it needs to be defended beyond the statement that the F-35s are useful.
Lockheed keeps pushing and you keep buying, the US laughs and you weep because you’ve been scammed yet again
Its the same old story. They have a salesman in charge and we have a weakling who gives away Our Fishing to the FFrench and Chagos to the Chinese. What a terrible situation.