Defence Eye has reported that the UK is in discussions with German defence firm Hensoldt about a possible purchase of its Pegasus signals-intelligence aircraft.
The outlet’s piece, available here, says the talks have progressed under the Trinity House framework and could feature in the forthcoming Defence Investment Plan.
UK and US have a highly coordinated collaboration over Rivet Joint, which is already planned out all the way to 2035 and includes agreement over tanker support (100 USAF Wing, Mildenhall, due to Boom “issue” x Voyager). I struggle to imagine wanting to signal an early exit. pic.twitter.com/mT1dfakMMZ
— Gabriele Molinelli (@Gabriel64869839) November 14, 2025
Pegasus is based on the Bombardier Global 6000 business jet and carries Hensoldt’s Kalaetron Integral mission system, which is designed to detect, analyse and geolocate radio and radar emissions across a broad frequency range.
Germany is acquiring three aircraft to restore a capability it has lacked since the withdrawal of the Breguet Atlantic in 2010. That programme is valued at about €1.54 billion and includes ground elements, evaluation systems and training infrastructure.
Hensoldt is the prime contractor and leads development of the reconnaissance technology, while Lufthansa Technik Defence manages aircraft procurement, structural modifications and mission-system integration. Bombardier Defence undertakes the initial conversion work at its site in Wichita before the aircraft are transferred to Hamburg for the installation of the SIGINT suite.
Almost 30 German companies support the wider programme.
Let me make it more interesting: “UK reportedly considers purchasing something”
Is this meant to be the successor to the RAF’s Sentinel R!?
based on the article it will be a replacement for the Rivet Joints.
Considering the complaining that has gone on around the decision to use a british firm for the new nuclear reactors, i can’t imagine this will go down well with the trump adminstration.
The Rivet joints are ancient airframes and due to go out of service in 2035. By the time Pegasus gets into German service that time will be coming up. Trump will be long gone.
There is no schedules replacement from the US side and the RAF page in 2021 said UK and the US entered a £910m context to support it to 2035, so I doubt we will bin it early.
Makes sense if we are developing long range 2000km strike with the Germans. We will need sovereign ability to locate targets and plan flight routes.
Agreed with all that but only problem is the defence plan is next year, and with the whole tarrifs issues I suspect the government will be nervous about announcing a European replacement for a US asset.
Trump isn’t the smartest cookie in the jar and is doing a lot to damage the US people, economy and reputation, but it’s hard to argue that his bully boy tactics have worked against everyone other than Russia and china. China so far has out trump trump and got the best of every stand off.
Currently takes us 7 years to stick an existing missile on an existing plane so you would think looking at an SIGINT/ELINT replacement now would make sense for 2035.
However there is no way Germany is in the same league the UK is currently operating in and no way to get them there. There is no way we will be sharing SIGINT aircraft with anyone other than the USA.
Ancient, yet the youngest of the KC fleet which were taken from reserve stocks I recall.
I’m more interested in the systems aboard them than the airframe, the equal to what was in the Nimrod R1.
You might be surprised how much SIGINT tech is from the UK.
NIMROD R1 was a key R&D program just as AEW was for P8.
Don’t assume that everything from US is always best.
Course not. And German? Which is the main thrust of my concerns here? The system that the article references is from Germany I understand? A non 5 eyes member, but seen as one of the “second signitaries” like a few other nations who get passed data by 5 eyes occasionally rather than unilaterally.
I’m quite happy if there is British kit aboard, we are 5 eyes.
Didn’t the Trump administration want the UK to go down a different route IE purchase American made reactors?? I think they wanted the UK to purchase larger reactors from Westinghouse?? But aren’t Westinghouse having financial difficulties so much so that the Trump administration is thinking of bailing them out or taking a stake in the company??
Yep. That’s my point, they are putting pressure on any decision not to buy US. I assume they wanted the UK to prop up Westinghouse. Something I’m glad we didn’t, as last thing we want is a company in financial difficulties building something that can melt down if corners are cut.
The thinking is the US administration is making it clear that the larger plant that is due to be ordered in a few years, has to be built by the US firm or the UK will face consequences. The thinking is the US gov isn’t too worried about these small plants, and their focus is on the big order hence why not immediate tarrifs.
The US ambassador, Warren Stephens, has already expressed extreme disappointment
A very odd position as we have a respected national champion in RR whom UKPLC needs to support for a whole range of good reasons that even Millibrain understands.
Reuters did an article on it called, “US criticises Britain over nuclear reactor proposals”
Indeed.
A very odd POV given The Tangerine Tinted Genius was telling Europe to stand on its own two feet…..I think rebuilding our nuclear sector is part of that….
The RC-135 Rivet Joint was a very expensive emergency purchase when the Nimrod R.1 was suddenly grounded in 2011. But if we get 20 years of service from the RC-135s, that will be at least par with most MOD procurements, value for money wise.
Absolute disaster I’d think if these replace the Rivets.
I doubt they have their capability.
Intel wise, we are joined at the hip with the US, whether posters here approve of that or not. We lose that, the UK loses out, big time.
And so does the US.
Spot on. We rely on each other in some areas more than I think most here realise. The UK provides plenty to the US, not just geographic access to bases.
The Rivets also get refuelled by US assets, and the “back end” of the Rivet Joint capability, so the interesting ground elements, work hand in glove with US elements as part of UKUSA, so embedded in the GCHQ, NSA, 5 Eyes set up.
We throw that away for a Business Jet???
If so, we’re out of our flipping minds. Yet, with who is in No 10, I’d not be the least bit surprised.
Are the US even planning to replace Rivet Joint with a similar capability? If so, we should carry on as we are and transition onto the new airframe. If not, now is the right time to start hunting for replacements, as we know what happens when these programmes start too late.
PS there seem to be a lot of bizjet-based systems around, I think the newer types have even more range than 737etc so it isn’t too much of a step down.
Morning mate.
My comment was primarily about Hensoldts “integrated mission system” and also how many support crew it carries as I understand the Rivets have quite a few analysts aboard, rather than just the aircraft. Maybe it’s the same number, no idea.
We’ve had Sentinel before after all, but that was a different role.
My shock in the post concerned wider 5 eyes. 5 eyes nations operate some very advanced stuff that i dont believe this German company have access to. The Rivet being particularly sensitive, the US shared it with us and no other due to the GCHQ NSA alliance. Same procedures, same or similar systems, shared intelligence capability. It shocks me that a system from a non 5 eyes nation could be used instead.
Maybe I’ve got it all wrong and it will seamlessly fit in.
Maybe this replaces Shadow instead? Who knows.
Gabs suggests it might replace both Shadow and the Rivets….wonderful…..9 aircraft down to this….
It’s surprising the US hasn’t started looking at a 737 based replacement to Rivet Joint with us, so that all of their and our MPA, AWACS and SIGINT aircraft can be based on the same airframe.
Alternatively, we pull away from the US and begin a transition to Global 6500-based aircraft that would be cheaper to run and less Boeing-dependent but have less volume. It’s a crying shame the UK didn’t even retain the ability to build our own business jets, that way we could have done everything ourselves.
US has no intention od replacing Rivet Jount before 2050, only the UK would be that stupid.
Hi M8, I suppose my concern about 5 Eyes is a bit more nuanced, if we continue on our path of not buying into US SIGINT Tech what use are we other than a friendly Landlord of usefully located bases (and dumb enough to pay £30 billion on their behalf).?
As for Joint Rivet let’s face it in wartime they’d be sitting ducks and the USAF is either doing nothing to replace them or keeping their cards very close to their chest. What I do find interesting is they retired JSTARS without any obvious replacement and they seem to be going down a smaller, more distributed nodal system for certain functions (E11, Satellite’s and Drones).
Hi mate.
They might be sitting ducks in wartime, but so would transport aircraft, and every fixed SIGINT site we possess, and we don’t see that as a reason to get rid of those.
What use are we? GCHQ has certain places that contribute a disproportionately high amount to NSA take, relative to our size. The world is also split into areas of responsibility, with GCHQ having primacy in two key regions.
I’m also confident that our own boffins are just as good as theirs when one looks at past history at what GCHQ has contributed and what breakthroughs were made. It’s been said before, the US has the resources and the money, we have the brains and the skills.
Both sides benefit from the other.
On bases, yep, another big reason the relationship grew post war, they needed our bases in the empire.
I see it often here, there are posters who it seems would throw our position in this alliance away based simply on their dislike of Trump, who will be gone one day, once we’ve sawn our legs off at the knees.
“I see it often here, there are posters who it seems would throw our position in this alliance away based simply on their dislike of Trump, who will be gone one day, once we’ve sawn our legs off at the knees.”
Sawn off at the knees like voting for Brexit?
Computing power is such that the possibly we don’t need such large airframes and if, IF, data links can be high speed and secure, the analysts could be ground based rather than risk another Haddon Cave.
Which, if extrapolated, could an unmanned frame actually do the deed?
I’ve no idea, but very high speed data links will be de rigour in 2035 and only become faster with smaller airframes needed.
Don’t you despise the Americans now though? We signed a mutual defense pact with Germany for a reason. Because neither of us can trust the USA anymore. I think we never really could trust them.
No? For what reasons?
Trump being Trump? No.
Trump seeing America first in everything he does?
No. How refreshing! Pity our governments seem to be the opposite.
Trump getting European NATO to sownd more after Europe has disarmed? No. Big plus, pity our government is dragging it’s feet.
Why should I despise the Americans?
Underneath the politics, the DSF work’s hand in glove with them, and actually has access to some of their assets that our government won’t buy.
The RN in the field of ASW, Sigint, Maritime Crypto, and surveillance works side by side with them using kit often paid for by the US which we have privileged access to. Literally, in the same buildings, both in the UK and at Dam Neck.
The RN and USN coordinate our SSN ops and share tech.
The RAF have the RC135, which no other country can access. Stuff the plane, what is key is the systems inside it that form part of possibly the widest intelligence alliance the world has ever seen, and were a part of it, not on the outside like France.
In the agencies, the SS, SIS, GCHQ, through same said intelligence alliance, giving this country reach far beyond our means. Oh yes, those damned Americans.
At Pathfinder, Defence Intellgence again works seamlessly with US representatives, and the NCGI has access to space based IMINT we can only get through the USA as our wonderful government, which always puts our country, threw away our missile programs in the 60s that could have given us our own capabilities. They caved in to US pressure. Do I hate the US for that, for wanting no rival and to be top dog? No. We would have been the same throughout our period of Empire
No Lee, I despise our own governments, not the US, not the Brexit vote, not Trump. He’s a corrupt buffoon, sure, aren’t they all? Look at our political class, Labour have lost 2 ministers already. He’s causing damage to western hegemony, do I hate him or Americans? No. He’s appalling on animal welfare and the environment, two things close to my heart. Do I despise Americans for that? No, I just disagree with Trump on that issue. There are other issues I agree with him on. Same with our blasted government too, ironically.
Do I despise the US for them wanting to sell us their small reactors? No, it’s what any country should be doing, pushing itself. Do we push ourselves?
No.
I know where my loathing truly lies…..
well said!!
I hate the guy but you gotta respect him looking out for his nation first unlike our lot for last 40 years
Stop Dicking around.
This Country seems to be run by Halfwits.
The UK strengthening relationships with Germany and with Canada – I think I read Canada wants to join the Eurovision song contest. Bombardier make trains in Derby. If Trump wants Europe to look after itself there are consequences. Rolls Royce small modular reactors chosen for Wylva.
Canada’s free trade deal with the EU is being used to the max now. Canada can even utilize the EU defence procurement imitative and Canadian defence companies can also have their gear available to purchase on it as well.
75% of Canada’s population is of Euro origin and with a hostile administration in Washington I would say the relationship between Canada and the US will not be the same again for a very long time.
Hi Paul, No they don’t ! Bombardier Transportation bailed out of the U.K in 2021, the Train business was sold to Alstom (French) and is quite happily still building Trains here in Derby. They are however still involved in Aerospace in Belfast, Luton and Biggin Hill.
Alstom Derby hosted “The Greatest Gathering” this year which was an absolutely stunning tribute to 200 years of the U.K. rail industry, my wife works for Network Rail and her desk overlooks their site (yep she’s the Family Train Nerd).😉
😁
Ah! I stand corrected. Good to hear of that Great Gathering. Well done Alstom
Trump like all Americans is just in it for the money. Every step however small we take away from having to even pretend to be friends with the shower across the pond can only be good. They have never been our friends, we have just been their customers. Move on.
Exactly. I been saying for years they wouldn’t help Europe if Putin attacked. We need this alliance with Germany and Japan. F the USA.
We need Canada and Australia as well. Leave the US to be Putin’s lapdog.
This Pegasus Sigint airframe looks more like a replacement for Shadow than Rivet Joint. Going from a Beechcraft 350 to the Bombardier 6000 would give a longer cabin with more consoles, a big increase in range, speed and altitude and I would assume greater endurance. Assume the Intel gathering, surveillance would be a step up too.
The RAF had claimed that the upgrade to Shadow 2 would give better range, speed and altitude and had agreed to add a flight simulator from Raytheon, but then the plan to upgrade Shadow was recently cancelled out of the blue. I wonder if that was because the Pegasus system had made an appearance?
I never really trust.the costs given in the trade press, because you rarely know what the price covers. FWIW, the Shadow 2 upgrade was reported as a £110m contract for I assume 8 upgrades and a flight simulator. The German order.for 3 Pegasus reported as.£154m, including ground elements, training infrastructure.etc.
The Rivet Joint RC-135 is a much larger, heavier aircraft and vastly more expensive biz jet turbos. I can see the RAF showing interest in Pegasus, as Shadow’s OSD is 5 years away. Rivet Joint’s OSD is likely 10 years away and it would be surprising if MOD was actually thinking and planning ten years ahead!
I’m all for sharing kit and future developments with our European allies. I trust them far more than I trust the US going forward. Our concerns are more closely aligned with what’s going on in Europe than they are with the US.
Joachim Schranzhofer, head of comms at Hensoldt, just denied this on his twitter, i quote:
“To clarify: HENSOLDT is not in negotiations with the UK Ministry of Defence on this topic at the present time.
We remain focused on delivering for our existing customers and on supporting defence cooperation with our European and NATO partners.
No further comment.”
The RC135 is the most advanced aircraft of its type in the world with individual airframes undergoing exhaustive overhauls and sensor upgrades in rotation, our airframes are in that rotation ensuring we have the very best capability there is. The US has no plans to retire the Type until at least 2050, if the UK is stupid enough to retire ours before then we’ll.lose the unique capability.
Yep.
Surprised Chairman Starmer 🐹🦄🌈 hasn’t gone for a Chinese option.
So we can help kill more Gazans
Not being too controversial, but history of Gaza shows they have always reaped what they have sown. Without any of our suggested help.
Absolute cobblers.
Aircraft of this level of technology aren’t jist listening for some Hamas with a walkie talkie, they’re monitoring the electromagnetic spectrum looking for radar and other emissions.
That is aimed at nations and their militaries, not a bunch of terrorists.
Shadow with it’s capability is more suited, and lo and behold, that was what was flying from Akrotiri. To help find Israeli hostages.
Hamas knew what it was doing last October. The Israelis did not disappoint them.
hope so