600 British military personnel will deploy to Afghanistan on a short term basis to assist British nationals to leave.

The UK Government say that UK troops will provide force protection and logistical support for the relocation of British nationals where required and assist with the acceleration of the Afghan Relocation and Assistance Policy (ARAP).

“This will help to make sure interpreters and other Afghan staff who risked their lives working alongside UK forces in Afghanistan can relocate to the UK as soon as possible.”

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace MP said:

“I have authorised the deployment of additional military personnel to support the diplomatic presence in Kabul, assist British nationals to leave the country and support the relocation of former Afghan staff who risked their lives serving alongside us.”

The additional military support announced today will arrive in Kabul over the coming days.

A statement reads:

“The UK remains committed to Afghanistan and will continue working as part of the international coalition to support the country’s government through our diplomacy, development and counter terrorism work. This year the UK will provide Afghanistan with more than £100 million of support to improve critical health and education services.”

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RobW
RobW
1 month ago

Having never served or experienced war I know this is very easy to say, but pulling out and leaving a seemingly ill prepared Afghan army to fend for itself could end up being a colossal mistake. Ben Wallace has been very critical of the decision but with the US going what choice did everyone else have, indeed they can all blame the US decision and end their involvement without much criticism. I feel very sorry for ordinary Afghans and fear for their future, as well as for what will be allowed to grow from this. I have to say though… Read more »

Harry Bulpit
Harry Bulpit
1 month ago
Reply to  RobW

The Afghanistan military has been trained for 15 years, and has been given more then enough equipment to deal with the Taliban. If a 18 year old joined the British army 15 years ago by now they would at least be a sgt with multiple tours under their belt. The ANA had everything in their favour to win they are simply dont have the will power to stand and fight. Personally the only Afghans I have any sympathy with are the children and the few who are actually putting up a fight.

Dern
Dern
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1425919659895934977?s=20

From the chair of the foreign affairs committee, a former Int Corps officer with multiple tours under his belt.

Training a career soldier, and creating an army from scratch are not the same thing, and do not have the same timelines.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  Dern

The main issue is that they seem incapable of understanding the all arms battle. They can move from A to B, in formation, but once a contact is intiatied they all seem to bomburst and do their own thing. C&C is the biggest task for them, along with any sort of coordination from any OS or supporting elements. Many of them can fight, but getting them to employ even the basic principles of soldeiring can be a frustraining hair puling teeth gnashing issue. Its a mind set thing not a training thing…….cheers mate.

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Well said mate.

Harry Bulpit
Harry Bulpit
1 month ago
Reply to  Dern

No. But it wasn’t forming an army from scratch, it was built from the nucleus of the Northern Alliance. Plus it took less then 1/3 of the time to rebuild the Iraqi army before they began smashing up ISIS. Sorry but the ANA have no excuse.

Dern
Dern
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

The Iraqi Army also a) Fell to pieces when it first encountered ISIS. b) still hasn’t had US support pulled. c) Never stopped benefitting from US logistics, support and training.
So a good example perhaps of how the US pulling the rug out from under the Afghans doesn’t work, and they should have stayed on.
Sorry, but the ANA has every excuse.

Harry Bulpit
Harry Bulpit
1 month ago
Reply to  Dern

That may well be true, but when they seem incapable of of performing the most basic of infantry skills and often either end up running away or locking themselves in their vehicles. It doesn’t matter what support they receive their doomed anyway. 20 years we’ve thought for their country and they lose it all in a few months.

Dern
Dern
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

Let’s just say that’s not the picture that is painted by those in the know. Again I refer you to the comments I linked above.

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  Dern

Stayed on for how much longer? 50, 100 more years? The US should have never gone in there in the first place. No one learned the tough lessons the Soviets learned. It is impossible to force Western norms on them. Sad but true. Just like in other places like Somalia, parts of Africa, ect. It just doesn’t work and no amount of troops or money will change that.

Dern
Dern
1 month ago
Reply to  dan

Really? Because lets just say the US did a lot better than the Soviets did, remember the Soviet Death toll? But yeah “no lessons learned.” If anything the Biden has failed to learn the lessons of Iraq in the last 10 years.
And lets not rope Africa into this, that’s a different kettle of fish.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

Spot on Harry.

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  RobW

It is a war that cannot be won by western armies/politics. The local Afghans trust the barbaric Taliban more than the good intentions of foreign ‘invaders’, plus factoring in the duplicity of Pakistan, which has sheltered armed and trained them., and continues to do so.

Meirion x
Meirion x
1 month ago

Hard realities here!
So you would prefer bombs on our streets again?

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion x

What difference did it make? most of the Jihadists who set off bombs and did stabbings here were born in the UK. The last major terror attack was carried out by people of Morrocan heritage. The Taliban have never bombed the UK or Europe, so we are simply fighting the wrong people.

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion x

That wasn’t the Afghans. It was foreigners that hid in Afghanistan.

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  RobW

The West would have to keep a big military presence there forever in order to keep the Taliban from taking over again. Some things military might just can’t solve and this is unfortunately one of them….

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago

Afghanistan does tribal warfare. It’s in their DNA. They will be fighting outsiders like Russia and the west and then each other when there are no outsiders to fight. I supported the entry into Afghanistan post 9/11 to go after AQ and terrorist apparatus using proxy forces, SF, airpower, and the intelligence community, but not the attempts to occupy it long term after. I still remember the DS John Reid’s comments waving it off as routine and short term. It would never work and an insurgency is unavoidable. No different for them as to us if suddenly the Home Counties… Read more »

Sjb1968
Sjb1968
1 month ago

Totally agree with everything you said. It should have been a short, hard and focused intervention and nothing more. What I find unforgivable is the lack of understanding of the different cultural and religious beliefs, which were well known before we invaded. The U.K has no excuse whatsoever given our historical knowledge of the country. What do they get taught at Sandhurst and Westpoint. To those who say we should have stayed I give you this comparison. The allies occupied Germany for over 40 years, a country of which we know so much, having similar cultural, religious, and educational beliefs… Read more »

Harry Bulpit
Harry Bulpit
1 month ago

Im afraid I must disagree. Although the Taliban had always mounted an insurgency, it was a spratic and disorganised one reliant mostly on forign volunteers. Not only had we truly defeated the Taliban militarily, but we had layed the ground work for the creation of a relatively stable government. Although the coalition had certainly made mistakes it was the unwillingness of the majority of the Afghan population to work for themselves that has caused this situation. Had the ANA stood its grounds it could have wiped out the Taliban once and for all. As for the interpreters and other local… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

Morning Harry. That is welcome. But which bit do you differ with? As apart from your comments on the Interpreters your points don’t really address mine? I mentioned nothing on the capability or will to fight of the ANA or the training, money, and kit provided. I wonder how many have gone over to the other side? Another common outcome in afghan tribal politics. The insurgency against the Soviet Union also had Mujahideen foreign fighters, Osama the biggest amongst them. And the Russians could not quell it either with 300,000 men I believe? Yes, the local afghans who helped us… Read more »

Harry Bulpit
Harry Bulpit
1 month ago

Just the genral principle of the conflict being un winnable.

Sjb1968
Sjb1968
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

Harry, we have no more defeated the Taliban than the US had defeated the Viet Cong. They melted away and just waited for the invading forces resolve to weaken or for them to withdraw. Sadly despite all the money spent and lives lost you said it, it is the unwillingness of the Afghan population to work or fight for themselves that has has in part caused this debacle, hastened by our withdrawal.
An entirely predictable and avoidable disaster.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Sjb1968

Interesting point, the US military will in Vietnam was broken when they realised it would take upwards of one million troops to contain the Vietcong and NVA. Note, I said contain, not defeat…. 10,000 British troops could, in reality accomplish little in Afghanistan, a pointless 20 years of loss of life and permanent injury to live with, will lessons be learnt? I wonder……. They fought so hard, but their political masters in the shape of Blair and his cohorts, let them down, so very badly, deploying troops with no clear aim or any thought for an exit strategy …. Shame… Read more »

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago

Well said Daniele, I couldn’t have put it any better. You simply can’t defeat an ingrained insurgency, it can’t be and has never been successfully accomplished.

Those that think it’s achievable, are away with the fairies in my opinion…

Withdrawal had to happen at some point, I pity the poor people who are heading back into the hard-line Islamic depths of hell.

Expect China to occupy that narrow corridor that connects Afghanistan to China, they will take prompt action once the country officially fails I am sure…..

CAM
CAM
1 month ago

I haven’t liked Biden from the beginning but I dislike his administration more than ever now. I just can’t believe it.
… and I fear that this is not to be the last strategic mistake made by the administration.

Jonny
Jonny
1 month ago
Reply to  CAM

🤔 It was trump who started the formal process of withdrawing troops from Afghanistan. Biden is simply continuing to deliver on it.

CAM
CAM
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonny

And I disagree, even if Trump was US President now and did the same thing in the same way then I would still disagree.

CAM
CAM
1 month ago
Reply to  CAM

PS – I’ll edit the comment, looking back it does seem a bit harsh.

Positroll
Positroll
1 month ago
Reply to  CAM

Trump made a treaty with the Taliban, promising to leave, in an incredibly short timeframe, and to cut all support to the Afghan forces.

Trump did that “great deal” without consulting with either the Democrats, nor the Afghan government, nor his NATO allies.

Trump created this mess. Biden was stuck with it.

CAM
CAM
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonny

Never mind I can’t edit it…

David
David
1 month ago

One can only hope it is part of cunning plan to bring them all out into the open and then slot every last single one of them. As Dan says, we were never going to win this. The only way would have been to seal every last inch of border from places especially like Pakistan. Link ANY NATO country aid to the PAKs with them also effectively sealing their own border, build a wall aka mahoosive minefield between Iran and Afghan and systematically and publicly execute anyone found to have gun powder residue upon their clothing or bodies. They’re barbaric… Read more »

Something Different
Something Different
1 month ago
Reply to  David

I’m pretty sure being brutal to the local population in the manner you described would make us as bad as the insurgents and be a war crime (I do hope your your tongue was in your cheek). Also implying an entire nation/group as barbaric is just ‘out group’ bias at its worse and leads to a very dark place very quickly. The war is being lost sadly but it doesn’t mean all the people are going to embrace the oppressors. It’s like saying all French people in 1940-44 were pro German because their army surrendered and Vichy was established.

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago

Hi, I agree with Dan, we should have limited our involvement to SF and airpower and left that bedevilled country alone.

Andy a
Andy a
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

The west needs to realise when going into situations like this sometimes there is no quick fix and best you can hope for is management

Andy a
Andy a
1 month ago
Reply to  David

Unfortunately unlike a disarmed country like ours it’s quite normal for peaceful citizens there to use firearms to protect families and livestock so couldn’t really disarm them or test for GSR.

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy a

15 years… big boy’s games, big boy’s rules.

We should never have gone in; SF pin point, RAF light up, and let the rest play with their goats. It is a God forsaken land.

Karl
Karl
1 month ago

Like Saigon all those years ago. The “west” has let another country down, that after thousands of troops gave their lives and for what?
I fear for a major confrontation with Biden “leading”, to think that an obviously dementing man could get elected just astounds me, like Johnson, Macron and all the others voted in, where are the true leaders?
Still, the CIA will at least get some money from poppies again.
More proof, if it were needed, that governments do not run things.

dave12
dave12
1 month ago
Reply to  Karl

Unless you want to invade pakistan to get at the Taliban it was always going to end this way. NATO has done supremely better than when Russia tried it which by the way started all this mess. 2500 US , 450 brits loses , Russia over 50,000 killed . Comparing vietnam to this conflict doesn’t quite match up as the taliban are not native to Afghanistan they where installed by Pakistan when Russia retreated.

Last edited 1 month ago by dave12
Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  dave12

Or seal the Iran border, another route supplies were smuggled in.

Meirion x
Meirion x
1 month ago
Reply to  dave12

Yes, the ISI are a law to themselves. Why no sanctions on them?

Karl
Karl
1 month ago
Reply to  dave12

The analogy with Saigon does match. Loss of interest on behalf of corrupt politicians sentences millions to terror. And this goes back further than Russia. Read some Kipling. As for Pakistan playing regional broker? They cannot even settle their own problems in their borderlands. Pashtuns will never be ruled by any “state”, history proves that. When you dig deep enough, the real culprits are easy to spot.

dave12
dave12
1 month ago
Reply to  Karl

You cant deflect away the fact that Afghanistan was in a very good state before Russia invaded and after that, quick chaos.

Last edited 1 month ago by dave12
Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  Karl

Yes but the common cause the Vietnamese, Iraqis, and Afghans had is that there were foreign invaders on their soil imposing an unwanted culture and politics on them and they wanted them out. The west takes a view that it is fighting off communism, tribalism, and religious extremists for a good cause and order to establish democracy in those countries. The lesson should be obvious from those conflicts our ideas, values, and politics are totally unwelcome there and that is why we can never win, it’s very different from fighting dictators in Europe.

Karl
Karl
1 month ago

Agreed, the “logic” behind The Gan mess was 9-11 and the bullshit “war on terror”. I am with Ron Paul on all these foreign adventures. Keep out. My issue is if you commit, you stay. Weasel western governments are just that. We basically have no right to intervene unless we are attacked. The “who did 9-11 and why question” is still wide open.

dave12
dave12
1 month ago
Reply to  Karl

The “who did 9-11 and why question” is still wide open”

I think you should stick to youtube conspiracy videos.

Last edited 1 month ago by dave12
Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  Karl

We (the west) should just stick to containing what is harmful to us and not go on expeditions to countries where the culture is so different that we are not welcome at all. By containing I mean degrading the military threats such as destroying hostile ships/aircraft / AFVs/ personal that threaten our immediate peace rather than attempting to occupy another country.

Meirion x
Meirion x
1 month ago
Reply to  Karl

“The who did 9-11 and why question”
Is truly closed and established, A. Jones!

Lordtemplar
Lordtemplar
1 month ago

Should have never gone there in the first place. But US wanted a whipping boy after 9/11. But once there should have pulled out after Bin Laden was killed. Afghanistan was a disaster long before 9/11 and unfortunately is returning to that chaos of tribal conflict, except now it seems the Taliban are unopposed since Northern Alliance has disentegrated over the years. Unfortunate for the people who will have to live under Taliban oppression, i guess we are going back to the days of using football stadiums for executions as entertainment. Sad, but none of their “muslim brothers” from other… Read more »

Meirion x
Meirion x
1 month ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

Bin Laden was not killed until 2011, that is 10 years after 9/11!

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion x

Because he was allowed to flee?

Embrace decarbonisation, electrify our railways, 31.12.2029 ban all diesel and petrol vehicles and turn off the money tap to the Saudis et al.

Use COP in Glasgow to urge all others to do the same.

Am I becoming a Conservative?

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

The UK gets most of its oil from Norway and West Africa these days, so all that would have no effect on Gulf countries.

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago

The International community has no desire to send large numbers of troops to police the whole of Afghanistan for a long time to come. However, if it was me, I would be asking the US, Russia & India to join the UK in creating an international safe haven, roughly a circle 25-35 km from the centre of Kabul. Get the bulldozers in to dig a trench to build a dyke alongside. A boundary to say to the taliban, this far & no further. Have enough international airpower at the airport to stop any taliban advance.

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

They have already infiltrated Kabul and are busy doing assassinations of military personnel and politicians.

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago

Yes, because no one is stopping them at the moment.

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

And who should stop them? , clearly, the ANA / Afghan police are not doing a good enough job, but I also suspect the Taliban are always one step ahead of them. So no, we should not go back in to clean this mess up, they need to learn how to counter Taliban tactics/propaganda and fend for themselves.

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago

If there is no safe space in Afghanistan, then there will be a huge outpouring of refugees, heading to the US, Europe & the UK. How can we deport an Afghan criminal if the taliban are in charge? Human rights lawyers would stop any deportation. Russia & India do not want islamofascists in charge, near their borders. Trying to police the whole of Afghanistan is beyond international will at the moment, but a multinational force protecting a small safe haven around Kabul, would be in the interests of the international community.

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Strange how those ‘refugees’ will choose Europe rather than going to neighboring countries, they should be refused refugee status because they leave the first ‘safe’ country and cross several more to get to Europe, which makes them economic migrants, not refugees.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago

Bingo.

coll
coll
1 month ago

I’m sure the government and police will be itching to clamp down more on opinions.

Rob
Rob
1 month ago

What is happening to Afghanistan is absolutely tragic. There has to be a public enquiry. The politicians undoubtedly have made many, many mistakes but I feel the military leadership of our brave and brilliantly professional service men & women has also been poor too; dispersion of effort, platoon blockhouses, unclear strategic objectives, mission creep, etc, etc… Over the course of the conflict many, mainly in the US, have been at pains to point out that this wasn’t another Vietnam but from what I can see it is exactly like Vietnam even in it’s impending denouement where we are likely to… Read more »

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob

Why an inquiry? , what could we have possibly done differently that would have changed the outcome?

Yes, our forces fought honorably and valiantly, but the situation over there is impossible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/some-afghans-blame-neighboring-pakistan-for-taliban-gains-pakistan-afghans-islamabad-quetta-peshawar-b1901191.html

Last edited 1 month ago by Bringer of Facts
Rob
Rob
1 month ago

Why an enquiry?
Because 400+ British soldiers have died. Because 1000s have been injured. Because £billions have been spent and, I know it is painful, but we have lost the war. We can never get into a situation like this again and we can’t do that unless we learn the lessons.

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob

Yes but we know all the reasons why the Taliban were not defeated, the military has learned, but our politicians have not.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

I think your optimistic about the military learning. Who trained the ANA officer corps ?

OldSchool
OldSchool
1 month ago

The real problem is that Afghanistan is not, never was and is unlikely to ever be a modern liberal democracy. What it is is a fragmented, backward, religiously conservative, patriachal trbalised rapacious, envious, corrupt society where groups are always trying to align with more powerful groups for mutual advantage ( and if it can do in traditional rivals all the better). The West has had to deal thro venal Afghan groups whose real interest was to get as mich Western money as possible and ( again) damage rivals at local and tribal levels etc. The reason the game is falling… Read more »

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  OldSchool

I’m wondering if countries that are highly tribal should have ever been constituted into large nations …. would breaking them up into smaller countries (by tribal area) stop the fighting? …probably not ..they are stuck in their feudalist ways, most countries in the west and the northern hemisphere left that behind centuries ago as they formed nations. The only thing to do is leave them to find their own way. They don’t want to be like us and we don’t want to be like them.

Meirion x
Meirion x
1 month ago

But will they leave us alone and safe on our streets? I doubt it!

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion x

The Taliban have never attacked the UK. Most of the UK Jihadist terrorist attack has come from within (i.e UK born citizens) and that is the fault of our own governments for being too accommodating.

Meirion x
Meirion x
1 month ago

The Taliban hosted Al Qaeda and allowed it to base terrorist training camps in Afghanistan pre 2001. They dispersed after 9/11 to stage terrorist attacks in Europe.

Meirion x
Meirion x
1 month ago

You seem to have forgotten the London bombings in 2005.

James
James
1 month ago
Reply to  OldSchool

Having had the west impose on the country for the past two decades the population now is even more split than it ever has been in the past. A large number of younger people have been brought up in a more western way which is exactly what the Taliban want to eradicate completely. This is only going to end in a horrendous humanitarian disaster. The country has nearly double the population of Syria and Libya combined. Which countries are these poor people going to flee to? China wont let them in, Iran I doubt will let them in. Pakistan may… Read more »

coll
coll
1 month ago
Reply to  James

I’m sure our government will let them in.

Last edited 1 month ago by coll
James
James
1 month ago

When the Taliban end up controlling the country who are they going to be cosying upto regionally, Pakistan and Iran.

One can only fear the dealings and movements going on between those three countries.

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  James

I think once the Taliban have control then Pakistan will reap the full fury of the monster it has created, and it will serve them right. As for Iran, they are Shia and don’t want the Taliban around. Also right now Iran is annoyed at the Afghans for damming up rivers that feed southwest Iran and creating a water shortage., that may lead to conflict too.

Last edited 1 month ago by Bringer of Facts
David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

Thanks you’ve actually cheered me up a bit. A war between Pakistan and Iran would be the cherry on the cake though.

James
James
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Who has the most nuclear weapons!?

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  James

That’s way over my pay grade but Pakistan for now ! But i’d settle for a conventional one.

James
James
1 month ago

Yeah I saw riots in Iran over the lack of water, maybes they will trigger an action to go into Afghanistan to sort it out, who knows.

Rob
Rob
1 month ago

Very reactive, no planning for this? This is not good.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

Truth is we took on the Pakistani ISI and they’ve won. Just like we took on the IRGC in Basra and they won. So will we learn ? Of course. I can see the MoD press release right now ‘Problems have been identified and lessons learned’ So don’t worry everyone.

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

In both cases, it would have meant engaging Pakistan and Iran in an open conflict which the UK does not have the means to do on its own. Also, the ISI/Taliban and IGRC/Mahdi army have no fear of inflicting civilian casualties, while our armed forces are heavily scrutinized by both enemy propaganda machines and our own masochistic media.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

Wow sorry but 3 posts from Friday have suddenly been approved. Your probably right on all counts so HMG needs to draw the right conclusions unless we’re going to end up in the same result in the future.

Steve
Steve
1 month ago

Whether you agreed or not with the original war, it’s a shame that within a few weeks the country will be back to where it was before it. With the exception that there will be a lot more western miltiary gear there and a whole lot more anti western mentality. We have effectively help recruit a whole generation of potential future terrorists. Such a shame.

Albion
Albion
1 month ago

It wouldn’t surprise me if Kabul falls by the end of the month, let alone 90 days as predicted in the news media. The Taliban now have a free run, they know that they are on a winning streak, and what with all the US equipment and vehicles falling into their hands, they will be in a stronger position than they ever were. Once they have the country, there will be no going back for the ‘West’ – that will be that. Then watch the heads roll, literally, as the Taliban take their revenge. However the big wigs of Afghanistan… Read more »

Tom Keane
Tom Keane
1 month ago

So now we send 600 ‘personnel’, to help British Diplomats and nationals to leave Afghanistan, oh and “support the relocation of Afghan staff, who risked their lives serving alongside us”. Almost as if the ‘Afghan staff’ were a second thought. Other than the ‘diplomatic element’, a large number of these other British nationals were over there raking money in left right and centre. They know the risks when they went out there in search of the ‘dollars’, so let them sort their own exit out! The ‘diplomatic element’ were never going to be left behind, plans would have been in… Read more »

farouk
farouk
1 month ago

Ok so the country is falling like a pack of cards, and like each and every democratic President since the peanut farmer , Biden has messed up big style. Now before anybody berates me, he not only pulled troops out within days, hes now having to send troops back to help evacuate US citzens. But it gets worse, the likes of Osma Bin Laden (and his ilk) used the hasty evacuation of US troops out of: Vietnam Beruit Somalia As his excuse for carrying out 9/11 on the understanding, if you hurt the US enough they will leave. All his… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by farouk
Positroll
Positroll
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

BS. It was TRUMP who signed the “great deal” with the Taliban, insisting on a ridiculous timetable of retreat to please HIS isolationist base. Just like he dumped the Syrian Kurds a bit earlier. Biden was stuck with the problem Trump and his Republican friends in the senate caused. Speaking of the Republicans in the senate: It was THEM who (after the Black Hawk down thingy) forced the US retreat from Somalia, claiming again and again that creating order aka nationbuilding in Somalia “was not in the American national interest”. Since they controlled the purse strings, and things looked bad… Read more »

Positroll
Positroll
1 month ago
Reply to  Positroll

Clarification: it was republicans in both houses of congress who spouted that line, but what mattered was the opposition in the senate …

Wolf
Wolf
29 days ago
Reply to  Positroll

Clarification: It was Biden who pulled but he pulled out without any conditions which Trump claims he would have done. Trump has been the biggest peacekeeper in the Middle East over the years so I can’t see him do this in Afghanistan…

TabYomper
TabYomper
1 month ago

20 years of blood given by Western armies for no reason.We must never engage again in legacy wars.This latest scramble looks like Saigon all over again.

dave12
dave12
1 month ago

OK UKDJ i think now that all comments have been taken away at this moment in time proves my point that Russian trolls are abusing your flag system, time to bring back the like ,dislike system, or is this a technical glitch?

Ulya
Ulya
1 month ago
Reply to  dave12

Why does it need to be “Russian” trolls? Easier to blame? Why not UK trolls? Personally this Russian wants to see all the comments, even your Dave

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Ulya

Quite a few removed, Ulya, including some very good, thought provoking ones by various posters, and a few of mine.
Some of us were just debating the futility of it all in occupying Afghan, as your nation once did.

Over on the River paint job thread a lot has gone too, including a jovial exchange that I started between Lusty and I in which some magnificently detailed and long historical posts by Lusty have vanished.

It is what it is. Someone somewhere was offended. If it’s Trolls UKDJ will know.

Ulya
Ulya
1 month ago

Good morning Daniele
Understand it is annoying the post are gone, hopefully they will come back and George can fix the problem, most are interesting for me. Afghanistan was lost the moment you started. I have meet a few Afghan men on the border region when I was working in Iran, not a fan of them or their view on religion, but of course I cannot let the view of a few make me judge all

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Ulya

I agree. My view is after 9/11 I agreed with intervention, but only to kill terrorists and remove the structure, not to occupy.
That just creates an insurgency.

Afghanistan is based on tribal warfare and they will fight each other if the west or Russia were not there. We try to impose our ways on them which is impossible.

Invaders in Afghan always lose in the end unless they go the whole way with millions of soldiers, which no one has.

Even the Soviet Union failed.

Yes, I recall you mentioned your work in Iran.

Peter S
Peter S
1 month ago

There have not been many successful interventions against insurgencies. Britain achieved one in Malaya for couple of key reasons. Operationally, government forces vastly outnumbered the communist guerillas. Politically, the majority Malay population rejected the largely Chinese terrorists, not least because independence had been promised. I’m not sure what the maximum overall Western force level in Afghanistan was; the US got up to around 100000 for a short period. The rest added perhaps 30/40000. In Malaya, Britain deployed 100000 just to deal with a rebellion that never involved more than 7000 insurgents. To impose peace and maintain it over a much… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Peter S

SF. Raids. Airpower. Intelligence. Use them. If the terrorist training camp returns use them again. And again. And again.
We have the flexibility.

But never occupy your enemies land unless you intend to remain forever in a state on state scenario where the population are culturally aligned with you and in your favour.

Maybe this experience has influenced the dispersed fewer forces but forward located strategy where we can strike faster if needed without a long mobilisation period.

I agree with Old School.

dave12
dave12
1 month ago
Reply to  Ulya

True Ulya my comment was a sweeping statement ,but knowing the efforts the kremlin goes to influence the internet ,it just would not surprise me.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  dave12

The Russians also pay UK and western ‘influencers’ so some/many trolls aren’t even Russian.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Ulya

You have a good point Ulya, it’s more the work of certain childish individuals, who aren’t actually capable of proper discourse….

dave12
dave12
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Well my posts are flagged every time Russia is mentioned , and Airborne had post flagged explaining the effectiveness of wagner mercs ,so as I said it would not surprise me if Russian trolls are involved.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

And now I notice Ulyas reply to me yesterday has vanished. 😆

Ulya
Ulya
1 month ago

One of those Russian trolls must of made complain 😂

Peter S
Peter S
1 month ago

I can’t see any of the 23 comments so apologies if I repeat what others have posted. The failure of the US + NATO operation was always likely: our own history of attempting to control Afghanistan should have served as a warning. So should the comments from I think around 2006 from a former Russian general that the West would fail just as the Soviet Union had. There is an interesting article on RUSI which tries to analyse specific reasons for the failure. But even this doesn’t really acknowledge the near impossibility of bringing peace and stability to a country… Read more »

farouk
farouk
1 month ago
Reply to  Peter S

Peter,
can you see mine?

geoff
geoff
1 month ago
Reply to  Peter S

Peter-agree with much of what you say. Another route is to split the country into different states. Allow the Taliban to creat their own feudal state along the lines of fundamentalism and let more dare I say progressive/modern Afghans defend a state based on a modern Islam and democracy. btw I am sure most of you might remember that Churchill was mentioned in dispatches after an engagement with the enemy on the Khyber! His time here in South Africa also is a Boys Own tale. There is still a plaque at the old Durban City Hall marking the spot where… Read more »

OldSchool
OldSchool
1 month ago
Reply to  geoff

Yes. Churchill’s ‘The story of the Malakand Field Force’ should have been mandatory reading for the military planners and even more so for the liberal-minded nincompoops ( sorry I mean politicians) who decided ( once again) to try regime change. Butcher and bolt should have been the method used ( fly in fly out version minimal footprint on ground – rinse and repeat). And then after whacking the Talibs and terrorist friends explain you will return if required. The Talibs understand that language ( it bought around 40 years of peace 1880-1919). The British used it in the 19th cent… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  OldSchool

Yep different world out there in Afghanistan not just country.

OldSchool
OldSchool
1 month ago

My recent comments have been ‘removed’. So yes someone is trolling the site. Iwould hope those comments ( including mine) can be put back up and the system changed to stop this happening.

James
James
1 month ago
Reply to  OldSchool

Definitely, most the comments on most the threads these days just vanish.

Sadly someone has worked out the ‘key’ words to remove the posts by replying to them.

Meirion x
Meirion x
1 month ago
Reply to  James

It only requires one person using two different IP addresses objecting!

Last edited 1 month ago by Meirion x
James
James
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion x

Not much effort involved then, sad live some people lead!

Karl
Karl
1 month ago
Reply to  James

Its getting to be a waste of time, some brilliant discussions just vanish. Needs sorting.

Karl
Karl
1 month ago
Reply to  OldSchool

There were some good posts too. This is happening more often. I dont think it is trolling but more hacking.

farouk
farouk
1 month ago
John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

Again, really!!!!

I can only assume it’s the Woke set reporting everything that upsets their delicate sensibilities!

I simply agreed with Daniele’s excellent (and totally relevant post).

I wonder how long this post will be here before it magically disappears?

James
James
1 month ago

Taliban reportedly 7 miles outside Kabul now.

So much for the US intelligence suggesting it would take another 30 days for them to reach the main city.

Unless foreign troops that are being sent to help evacuate start defending the city this is looking like it will be over very quickly.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  James

It’s being rolled over faster than South Vietnam. The difference being that the Afghan army is well supported, just incapable of fighting in an organised manner. The ARVN was cut off from its supplies.

The Paras are likely to be fighting in and out of Kabul at this rate, I hope they stay safe. … Expect total collapse of the Afghan government by next weekend, god help all of those poor people.

James
James
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Awful situation for the mass majority of civilians, especially the younger generations who have grown up with 20 years of more freedom.

Will the Taliban let those who wish to leave? Or will it be an iron fist rule of fit in or die.

Humanitarian disaster unfolding in front of the world.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
1 month ago
Reply to  James

Aye absolutely agree it’s the people who will suffer . The west couldn’t give a %€£@ the Muslim nations are just as uninterested. It’s a total disgrace . The west is run by absolute donkeys weak men and women with no principles. History is just repeating itself as it always does.

only a matter of days or weeks till we’ll see Blackhawks leaving the rooftop of the US embassy ala Saigon 1975 and the population are hung out to dry.

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

James
James
1 month ago

Very sad times for the population, at least Canada has taken a token lead in regards to the humanitarian nightmare that is coming, I hope others will follow.

The surrounding nations dont want to fight as much as the Afghan army thats the simple reality of the region, no one wants to get involved and im sure politics amongst other factors will be playing out hugely behind the scenes.

If the world cared the UN would have stepped in to do something, clearly it doesnt.

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  James

I suspect the local neighbours knew the government would fall and didn’t want to get involved. It’s not like the government is a bastion of freedom, it was insanely corrupt and not a whole lot better than the Taliban in respect of western freedom. Ultimately the country is ruled by a series of warlords and the government was never really in control.

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Lets hope the paras won’t be fighting their way out, as I doubt we will be sending the heavy gear and helicopters needed to keep them safe. 600 sounds like a lot of troops but if they are stretched across multiple extraction zones, that number will suddenly seem tiny.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve

Absolutely, I hope the Taliban have the good sense not to fire on the US/UK force. With any luck they will let these final Western acts play out without intervention.

By my guessing, our next Afghan intervention will be sometime in the early 22nd century ( long enough for us to forget), I doubt Afghanistan will have changed a jot too……

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

I suspect they will be exactly waiting to do it. From what I have read they are insanely well prepared and experts seem to think there is a guiding mind behind their approach. I suspect one last kicking to the west is probably planned, and my guess they might be concerned that taking on the US could result in the US coming back in forcd, so I would guess going after the Brits would be their best bet. I really hope not and if they do I hope the troops have been sent their properly armed to fight and defend… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Steve
Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve

Both the US and Brit forces were pulled out quietly under cover of night with the pull out kept quiet from the government. I can only assume because they were worried about attacks. This is the complete reverse, small ish force being highly advertised in advance. Let’s hope plenty of typhoons have been moved into place for close air support

James
James
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve

Do you think an element of the 600 will be SF with the required equipment to cause a bad day for anyone coming at them?

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  James

I really hope so, none of us want to read about more deaths. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they were going in light, so not to upset / set unrealistic expectations from the government forces. The gov is trying to make it sound like this is all planned, but it doesn’t feel like it

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  James

Doubt it. From what I read it’s a Para battalion from 16AA, the rebranded “Global Response Force”
They can look after themselves.

Any SF are probably already there just like in Syria, Africa, Yemen, and elsewhere.

Deep32
Deep32
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve

Not sure where these Typhoons will be flying from?
Its over 1000 NM from Dubai to Kabul, or some 470 NM from the nearest water that our CSG could launch from – which effectively rules that option out!!

Unless Pakistan were to allow some forward basing/overflights or indeed some of the ‘Stans’ to the North, there will be no CAS on offer period. That, unfortunately is the grim situation we now face ,to evacuate all those people/troops.

At this point, only the US is able to offer any support via LR bombing – B52/B1 or indeed B2s.

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  Deep32

Fair point. Hard to find details of when they will be deployed. It seems the US has already done so and is actively air lifting people out.

Deep32
Deep32
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve

Lets hope its sooner rather than later, dont think it would take the Taliban too much effort to shut the airport down,several SUVs with MANPADS would probably do the trick.
Lets hope this so called ‘deal’ is enough for us to get everyone out!

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  Deep32

I assume the US are using the same airport and so will properly secure it for now. They are sending a pretty significant force, so I assume that will include full base secruity setup.

Deep32
Deep32
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve

It is certainly to be hoped that that’s the case, one more joint action before things go down the pan so tonspeak.

Always Right
Always Right
1 month ago
Reply to  Deep32

At this point, only the US is able to offer any support via LR bombing – B52/B1 or indeed B2s.”

No it isn’t, and won’t. And B-52s? A cold war 1950s relic.

Deep32
Deep32
1 month ago
Reply to  Always Right

It would appear that some form of deal is in place, a ‘peaceful transfer of power’ whatever thst is? Kabul airport is shut to non military flights, requiring military interbention to evacuate nationals! If this went South, unless there is signicant tanker support nothing that the west has has the legs to reach Kabul for support. So yes it is all that would be available for the next 24-48 hrs. B52s are still flying and are part of the USAF inventory for a reason (payload and range spring to mind) You dont have to like it or agree, its still… Read more »

Meirion x
Meirion x
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Expact, when the Taliban get their hands on $9.5Bn of reserves, to see terrorism play out on our streets again much sooner!

I also expect to see my comment made to disappear by Peaceniks!

Frank62
Frank62
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion x

I doubt very much a Taliban victory will be in any way benign for the rest of the world & especially for the west. We’ve dropped the ball big time here like idiots.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion x

I’m not so sure … There has been a lot of backroom meetings with the Taliban, I suspect an agreement has been reached with Western powers and China. A deal with the devil if you will, we look the other way while they re-create hell on earth for their terrified population and they guarantee that Afghanistan won’t be used as a terrorist launch pad, perhaps also offering a cut in Heroin production and perhaps minimal rights further ahead….. It’s certainly not in Iran or China’s interest for Afghanistan to become a totally failed state, out of their control. Ironically, it… Read more »

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

It does seem deals have been done, but the Taliban will know that once they get back control of the country, there will be nothing the US can do to enforce any deal and so it will be rapidly broken. The only deal that could stick would be to officially recongise the Taliban government and open up trade with them, but that would be policitcally unviable for the US or the western allies

farouk
farouk
1 month ago

Really?

Opera Snapshot_2021-08-14_144326_ukdefencejournal.org.uk.png
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

See this awaiting approval nonsense can someone explain how this occurs? Flagging ? I put a post up on another thread quoted Putin and put up info re US ongoing exercise Re. AI and it never made it . So I’m confused as to how it’s flagging that it causing the removal.?

seems like good old censorship to me but happy to be corrected

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago

I replied last night Artist, but it’s gone now too, beginning to wonder what the point is really if censorship just keeps blotting us out mate….

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Aye this joint needs to take the view of the Rumble ceo his view is he’s not qualified to decide what info gets censored or not so unless it’s threatening abusive or inciting violence then it should be left up.

maybe that biblically under qualified Susan Wojcicki is advising the team here on how to make it more like YouTube? 😂

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

Frank62
Frank62
1 month ago

An absolute disgrace to pull out leaving Afghans to face “Year Zero”. What on Earth did Biden think would happen? The West is earning a reputation as fair weather friends with no staying power. China, Russia etc will be delighted as they far prefer oppressive regimes that don’t rock the boat looking at their own abuses. Sends the wrong mesage that human rights only matter to the West at home. I dread what the death toll will be as the Taliban take revenge If you were an Afghan, would you hang around from Taliban rule or try to flee? Pakistan… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Frank62
John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Frank62

We’ve certainly looking at the end game now. You can guarantee that the upper echelons of the Afghan government and their families have already packed and ready to head off for pastures new, probably with full Swiss bank accounts of Afghanistan government money too!! The latest news suggests the ANA is deserting posts and dumping uniforms in some areas in increasing numbers, a propped up puppet government that simply implodes when the puppet master goes home…. We’ve reached the open city stage now, so power is simply handed over as the Taliban sweep through. Afghanistan has days to run before… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by John Clark
OldSchool
OldSchool
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Agree. As I’ve posted above ( tho unsure if it can be seen as it is awaiting approval?). This was mostly about money. A-stan society is grasping and self centred. Now that the West is going and the money is turned off they are all looking around looking who to ally to. This is how the Afghans work, friends one minute backstab the next as they realign to a new protector. It happens at all levels regional pan-tribal, tribal subtribal etc its all there in the history books and should have been well understood by our political masters a long… Read more »

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  OldSchool

Absolutely Old school, we are leaving ‘again’ … Everyone who can is heading for the exit door, they might as well either prop it open, or install a revolving door, because a strange sort of collective amnesia seems to effect the international community regarding Afghanistan, give it 20 years and someone else will be foolish enough to march through those doors….. I still remember an old (I think it was BBC) ex Soviet era General interviewed, as the US and UK went from targeted intervention in 2001, to a broad open-ended sweeping regime change mission in Afghanistan the following year,… Read more »

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago

I see my remarks about creating an international safe haven around Kabul have gone. Even I have to admit the situation has got worse in the last two days. I picked up a RAF in the 1950s book in a charity shop. We fought a long counter insurgency campaign in Malaya, that worked because we did “hearts & minds” as well as military action.

Rob
Rob
1 month ago

Reports today (Sunday) that the Taliban are already in Kabul. Hope we aren’t sending the Paras into a hot landing zone.

James
James
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob

Yup from most directions they have entered the city with virtually no resistance.

If our lads are landing and face resistance its us against them literally.

Charles
Charles
1 month ago

Basically, western nations invade other nations and destroy whenever they want. Now look after their citizens leaving Afghan people in dismay. We have to live in this planet accepting this norm