The UK Government have announced that the UK and Latvia will jointly lead a capability coalition, which will see thousands of drones supplied to Ukraine, including first-person view (FPV) drones, which have proven highly effective on the battlefield.
Ukraine will receive thousands more drones as Defence Secretary Grant Shapps announces today that the UK will co-lead a major drone capability coalition with Latvia for Ukraine.
According to a press release.
“As part of the coalition, the UK will scale up and streamline the West’s provision of “first person view” (FPV) drones to Ukraine. FPV drones have proven highly effective on the battlefield since Russia’s full-scale invasion, providing their operators with situational awareness to target enemy positions, armoured vehicles, and ships with explosive ordnance.
By creating a competition to produce these drones at scale and at an affordable price point, the UK will leverage the strength of Western industry. This is the first project to be launched from the £200 million drone package announced by the Prime Minister in January this year. It will see the UK order thousands of FPV drones for Ukraine, including from UK manufacturers, providing a boost to the industry and delivering on the Prime Minister’s priority to grow the economy.”
Defence Secretary Grant Shapps said:
“The UK continues to do all we can to give Ukraine what it needs – upping our aid to £2.5bn this year and committing £200m to manufacture drones, making us Ukraine’s largest drone supplier.
Today, we’re going even further. I’m proud to announce that the UK and Latvia will co-lead an international coalition to build Ukraine’s vital drone capabilities. Together, we will give Ukraine the capabilities it needs to defend itself and win this war, to ensure that Putin fails in his illegal and barbaric ambitions.”
Can we assume that we are learning the lessons on drones and taking it on board?
Yet to hear of a regiment being stood up as the UK’s FPV/loitering drone specialists. I’m sure that will change though, based on evidence from the Ukraine War.
UK policy seems to be like trying to carry out modern medicine with one antibiotic and one procedure. You can’t just dip in and out to tailor a force hoping the next fight will be the exact one that last happened. Without a broad defence strategy with sufficient mass, it’s a waste of time. You can bet pounds to pennies the Russians are right now developing ways to shut down or capture drones with a decent success rate. Maybe we will get lucky and the next war will be a case of tonsillitis, but looking around the world, it sure looks like cancer with a side dose of haemorrhagic fever.
Sorry Luke I don’t understand your argument. One thing you can guarantee is that all manner of drones are being designed and created and those deemed successful in testing and with feedback from the end user being increased, I proved and supplied accordingly, in fact it’s what this Country has proved damn good at over many decades adaptation and flexibility under pressure rather than pre conflict long term planning which we are historically far less good at.
So unless you are claiming that drones as an entity are a one trick pony with no long term future I really don’t get it, especially as that sort of argument pretty much reflects all that is wrong with MOD thinking in peacetime whereby strategic thinking appears to be locked in to what their ‘experts’ who often have little imagination or lateral or flexible thinking prevail that’s so often shown to be invalid the moment conflict begins.
Fact is as with many types of weaponry especially new ones you get ultra fast development cycles and of course a battle between measure and countermeasure which means any new weapon has a waveform of effectiveness not a linear one. This will be the case for drones, they will change immeasurably from those that start a conflict just as the Spitfire had to change over the following months and years to stay relevant. Drones have already transformed in Ukraine, large recon drones have pretty much disappeared replaced by all manner of small attack and recon drones exploiting gps and cameras. Yes counter measures have come into play but having read up about this channel hopping anti drone EW equipment is very expensive and complex and thus difficult to make ubiquitous on the front line while cheaper single channel devices will be very effective until the enemy changes their channel and that has then to be re determined so drones will always be effective for periods and less so in others and in different places. Equally new drone systems are now coming into operation that have cameras and sensors that once the drone enters the kill zone operate independently of any remote control that can be effectively jammed presently. Yes more expensive but still cheap compared to most other munitions and extremely effective.
So drones are here to stay it’s how they transform that is the question. The other question is how drone forces are best organised, is a Regiment devoted to drones the best way to organise? Will that lead to a stagnating view as to how to best exploit and develop them, will an inflexible traditionalist top down view develop in that atmosphere that plagued tank development in this Country between the wars. I don’t know but we need to allow a range of ideas and strategic thinking to develop, as seemed to be the case pre conflict when expensive recon drones seem to have dominated but now look like they will be very vulnerable which with so few available seems like a questionable focus.
Excellent post
Touché
This. 5 AAC are going over to Drones reportedly. Maybe they will take the role.
if you have 20 spare mins Daniele, you might like to listen to this:
A google on the above will give you the times radio pod cast on top
followed by the Youtube version.
Most revealing
Thanks Farouk, I will. I’d read of the MI6 Afghan business but not listened to this.
Could be something for 32 to convert to on the smaller end of the scale. Be interesting to see how they split the roles between AAC and RA.
That is an excellent point I hadn’t considered. Even going back to Midge Drones ownership of the role has been with the RA.
As an initial guess, all RA ones have been and are unarmed and non offensive.
Maybe the AAC will take the FPV/ offensive side?
Personally, I can’t help but feel that FPV drones are going to need to be the new ATGM gunners/operators in every platoon, at least for mechanised troops. Maybe everyone carries one and there’s a designated operator or two, but in Ukraine they’re basically being used something between 40 mm grenades and ATGMs/LAWs as far as I can tell.
Initially the need is for something like the Machine gun Corps of WW1. They could do the heavy lifting and then disperse to teach the rest of the Army who probably aren’t going to like Drone War.
Well Forces News is reporting that the UK is now Ukraines largest UAV supplier so I bloody well hope the army are learning from them.
All reliant on chips, cameras, radio modules etc shipped in from foreign sources. Maybe the plastic mouldings are UK made. Maybe.
Would be very interested to know what it is we’re providing- the list that they originally gave in that announcement included all kinds of stuff we don’t have in service. Hopefully the ramp up in production will mean it’s an easy transfer into British service, but I’m not holding my breath…
Well the equipment review a few months ago stated the uk had no drones outside reaper/watchkeeper, so hopefully they will be buying some for the uk at the same time as ukraine.
Mini drones are deployed by infantry. High value drones by the RA. It is worth considering who operates this intermediate category of drones. As Daniele says, maybe it could be 5 Regt AAC.
Hi Graham, I think I take two points of view with this class of loitering/first person view (FPV) drone.
The first is at Brigade level. Where the drones are used strategically in support of the Brigade’s standing orders. Where they are used offensively or defensively as part of the RA’s contribution.
But as importantly, I feel that a Regiment should also have their own loitering/FPV drone section. Be that as a new company, or more likely as an expansion of the support company. This would be better for the Regiment. As having your own organic element leads to a faster response to a situation. But also better use and decision making on how the drones are employed tactically.
So like the mortar section. The drones will give the Regiment the option to persecute specific targets beyond the reach of the mortar. Or keep them over a specific area like an airborne mine. But also provide surveillance and overwatch for Companies/Sections that are either manoeuvring or tasked with standing firm.
Indeed Davey. The future acquisition use of loitering/FPV drones by our army at Div, bde and (in some cases) unit level needs serious and rapid consideration.
Need to differentiate between recce/surveillance drones and attack drones of course.
I don’t see anything in drone defence.
Army has something like 8 ongoing air defence programmes. Dragonfire, Stormer replacement, CAMM and Terrahawk are 4, not sure about the rest.
You need anti drone in all assets.Example: is the Boxer turret being prepared for anti drone being able to fire the machine gun almost vertically or are the developers seating in their hands?
A CUAV sight for IW is another I think, the VATAC Rapid Ranger for interim SHORAD, and ER Skysabre.
Worth trying out during Steadfast Defender using paint bombs instead of paint balls.
“Another video shows Hamas destroyed an Israeli Merkava Mark IV tank – costs approximately $3.5 million – with what appears to be a mortar dropped by a drone.
Tanks usually have thin armour on the top (and the rear), which is also its most vulnerable part. This is why some of the most effective man-portable anti-tank missile systems like the Javelin have a top-down attack – the missile flies upwards and then descends rapidly to hit the upper part of the tank where the lightly armoured hatch is located, instead of hitting from the sides.
Military planners around the world are waking up to the threat posed by drones now. Many nations have invested in anti-drone technologies like jammers to disable or override the controls of drones.”
Have we???
Of course we have Nigel.
It will be interesting to hear the outcome.
Counter UAS Technology Europe16 April – 17 April 2024 United KingdomDeveloping Effective C-UAS Capabilities to Protect European Skies from Hostile Unmanned Air Systems
“SAE Media Group are delighted to announce the second annual Counter UAS Technology Europe Conference, taking place in London on 16-17 April 2024.
With the growing proliferation of small drones and UAS technology, European armed forces and security agencies seeking to protect critical national infrastructure at home and also forward deployed personnel operating abroad.
The European Counter UAS market is constantly growing with new programmes and projects announced. There has therefore never been a more important time for European C-UAS stakeholders to meet and network at Counter UAS Technology Europe 2024.
Counter UAS Technology Europe 2024 will showcase the very latest technology in the market to ensure that European personnel, equipment and infrastructure are protected from the proliferation of drones.
Speakers will feature from leading European C-UAS Programme Managers, wider international defence organisations and the top industry providers.”
Here’s one of the many speakers at the conference.
Group Captain Gary DarbyHead UK Joint C-UAS Office, Ministry of Defence
“Group Captain Gary Darby joined the Royal Air Force in 1989 and has served globally, including on operations in Northern Ireland, Afghanistan and Iraq. Whilst a military policeman by background, Gary has held a number of senior appointments within both security and cyber targeting and was recently embedded with US CYBERCOM, Maryland for 2 years.
Before taking up his current post as Head of the UK MoD’s Joint C-UAS Office in February 2022, Gary was the MoD’s Assistant Head for Strategic Campaigning Counter Russia.”
https://
smgconferences.com/defence/uk/conference/counter-uas-europe
That Merkava was not destroyed. The internal of engine compartment was.
Good enough then.
https://
youtube.com/watch?v=ty3eiLGORc4
Yes it was certainly a mobility kill.
And cheap at half the price!
20 Sept 2023
A Merkava 4M for the Israel Defense Forces is about $3.5 million.
Btw the hit was not by a mortar round but by an HEAT grenade.
“with what appears to be a mortar dropped by a drone.”
That depends on the source of the information. Either way, it’s far cheaper than the tank!
Agreed.
Thousands won’t be enough. Hundreds of thousands to the millions are needed. Hopefully the U.K./Latvia can come up with some way of improving them.
Grant Schapps is the best defence minister Ukraine have ever had. Weird as he was catastrophic when he did it for the UK.
Luke, in his defence he does wear many hats, and under each one he has a different name.
He’d fit in well on here then….😎
The US Army has just cancelled its FARA helicopter programme after spending>$2b. The reason given is the vulnerability of helicopters seen in the Ukraine conflict. Instead, they plan to rely on drones to deliver battlefield reconnaissance and light attack.
20 years ago, after spending $7.4b, the army cancelled Comanche after experience in Iraq suggested it would be too vulnerable in the planned role.
UK is not alone in procurement problems.
Is it a procurement problem when you realise what you were going to buy won’t work and you cancel the programme? That seems sensible to me.
What is surprising is that they started it in the first place, because I witnessed the simulated wargame in 2015 with the US Army where they worked out that a near peer enemy would completely destroy the 82nd Airborne before it hit the LZ. When they reduced the air defence assets of said enemy, they never made it off the LZ because they were smoked by artillery.
Although I think that’s why this programme was for something faster than a standard helicopter… That’s why I tare my hair out when I see us looking for a new medium helicopter – why?!
Hence why BAe just snapped up a UK Military drone manufacturer, there’s goes any hope of getting a cheap affrodable military drone.
Do you mean Malloy, or is there yet another one?
It was Malloy.brought at the beginning of this month.
Yep.
As soon as the T-650 was reported as being jointly developed with BAEs, it was never going to be cheap. The philosophy also seemed to change, with them working up the T-600 before developing a higher powered version.
Having said that, would we ever have seen the T-600 dropping a dummy BAE Stingray otherwise, or be told that the Mod 2 (that I’d never heard of before) was being developed for a wider range of platforms, like the Malloy. The Malloy heavy lift drones aren’t the kind of disposable/attritable cheap and cheerful FPV attack drones we are mostly talking about developing here. The T-100 and I think the T-400 have been sent to Ukraine, but wasn’t that in the context of logistics and resupply?
My comment was a little tongue in cheek. You’re right Malloy wasn’t targeting low end cheap drones. But BAE have now taken out a competitor, and whilst Malloy have been targeting the high end market the have expertise to build a cheap attack drone. With the BAe takeover it won’t happen.
Lastly I’ll add I don’t think multi motors are the best platforms particularly for halling big weapons. Fixed wing airframes offer more efficiencies.
“”By creating a competition to produce these drones at scale and at an affordable price point, the UK will leverage the strength of Western industry. “”
I wonder if this will entail a brand new paper company whose owners have links to people in Government winning the above contract and which will then subcontract the tender out to China just as we saw with PPE, usually resulting in shoddy kit.
FYI: The name Shoddy comes from my home town where in 1813 used Wool was recycled into new fibre , but because it was deemed inferior the term ‘Shoddy’ became synonymous with poorer quality
I hope we are stocking some for ourselves as well and not waiting for the need to arise before realising we are short of what we need…
Right response to what Putin is doing; putting the Russian economy on a war footing. Guardian reporter Andrew Roth quotes some observers who reckon he can sustain current attritional manpower and vehicle losses for 2 or more years. Ukraine needs these drones asap,
If the supporters of Ukraine want to give them the tools to win more needs to be done. There is only so much old stuff that can be donated. Russia is building loads of stuff and putin is unlikely to be willing to stop unless something bad happens in his country to threaten his leadership or is shown that his forces cannot win and are being pushed back.
A main priority for supporters of Ukraine needs to be given them equipment and training that can keep as many of them alive as possible. Russia wins the numbers game if the Russian population is willing to give millions to the slaughter.
“Russia wins the numbers game if the Russian population is willing to give millions to the slaughter”.
I imagine the Russian population is very much unwilling to ‘give millions to the slaughter’ – sadly, they just have to do as they’re told.
Putin has now incorporated into the defence of those contested areas with thousands of Railway wagons constructed into a barrier ” the Putin Line ” reeks of desperation but a cheap version of the ill-fated Miginot line
The USA disgusts me as do the trolls. In Afghanistan the politicians were cowards to pull out; that was Biden but Trump was just as bad as he set the start.
In Ukraine is entirely the fault of the Republicans Playing Politics. They have form of course. Shame on them; I hope it costs them the election and the party falls apart. Serve them right.
I don’t get the philosophy of many US Republicans. They beat the drum for strong armed forces and yet want to cease supply of weapons to Ukraine which are used to defeat the Russians.
There is a big difference between the old Republican Party and the newer part of it unfortunately.
The MAGA Republicans exist to do the biding of their Glorious Leader Don the Con. He has made personal loyalty to him the key test with the Republican In Name Only (RINO) phrase.
All but one alternative candidate for the Republican primary election have dropped out such is the aggressive nature of #45 and his MAGA loyalists.
He has had his daughter in law appointed to chair the Republican National Congress (RNC) and she confirmed that fund-raising body now exists to fund his campaign.
MAGA Republicans were responsible for preventing the bi-partisan Border improvement bill in Congress because they don’t care about America just keeping the issue alive so Don the Con can campaign on it.
The 11th Circuit Appeal panel was unanimous that there is no presidential immunity to prevent accountability for the crimes of a president. So he’s not getting a get-out-of-jail-free that he hoped for.
Since that 57 page ruling has been described as water-tight it’s likely that Supreme Court will not take it for review. So it will stand as precedent and enable the four criminal trials in progress to continue.
The other matter before the Supreme Court is the Colorado State Supreme Court ruling that #45 is ineligible for public office having engaged in Insurrection or supporting the same.
That’s the 14th Amendment Section 3 and is clear as day, confirmed by constitutional scholars and retired Judges. So the majority republican appointed Supreme Court wants to avoid the question such is their fear of #45.
Making
Aggression
Great
Again
or American Kompromat as FSB says.
The problem for US is their constitution. It was written with the idea of an elected King to replace an unelected British King. Things have moved on. USA is stuck with an irrelevant document, which despite amendments, is not fit for purpose.
The President is the elected head of state (Executive branch) and commander in chief (Armed Forces) not an elected King or Dictator immune from prosecution under the law.
That remains fit for purpose in leading the republic though #45 has tried to assert immunity but failed.
Patriots uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and are not above the law.
The question is are the Supreme Court Justices patriots who uphold the Constitution especially Amendment 14 Section 3?
They should be loyal to the United States Constitution not to any one person especially due to intimidation or corruption.
All of this may not suit dictators; kaputin, Xi and the rocket man. For everyone else it’s awesome.
There are some good videos on Russia’s information war and how a prime targets is causing rifts in western Politics, whether that’s Brexit here or Republican/Democrat mutual hatred in the US. As long as we are split, we are less effective in opposing Russia.
It seems to be working particularly well in the US right now.
Today (Fri 16 Feb) will see the verdict in the NYC fraud case likely $600,000,000 penalty against trump and his crooked family.
All his fraudulent NYC businesses will be dissolved and licenses to run a corporation revoked. Full destruction of the trump really great businessman delusion.
Six bankruptcies and more than 3400 court cases for the suppliers that he didn’t pay are evidence in the public record that he’s just a fraudster.
So his FSB handlers are going to need a lot of petro-dollars to keep the stinky defective trump ship afloat.
His recent outburst about NATO funding being a reminder to the FSB that defeat in Ukraine depends on his reelection to commander in chief.
Also a reminder to NATO members of the chaos that the Tangerine Toddler can cause when he interferes with the grown-up business of geo-politics.
Let’s hope that our intelligence services are working against the Kompromat. For example with evidence of #45s crimes and misdemeanors.
Great. But where’s all the ammunition UKR desperately needs? Artillery has no shells, while Russia has plenty. Let’s not just allow UKR to be ground down to the last willing Ukrainian & hand Putin another victory.
If we fiddle while UKR burns it only encourages more aggression & ultimately the extinction of our way of life. I know we’ve delivered loads of aid, but usually never enough for the task in hand & often rather late.
We should at least boost our own manufacture of munitions.
we have upped our ammunition production quite a bit, as has the US and Europe. trouble is it isn’t something you can magic up over night
@Louis said:
Rheinmetall is on track to make 700k 155mm shells this year. Pre war they had the capacity to make 450k a year, with 350k in Europe, so presumably 550-600k of the 700k will be made in Europe.
Nammo was at 100k a year pre war and will double by 2028, Nexter at 3k a month.
US production hit 28k October last year and they are planning for it to hit 36k in March, 60k in September and 100k by the end of 2025.
No idea what FMG was at, apparently it had a lot of spare capacity.
Then there is PGZ which for some reason is never included in anything online listing 155mm factories, and MSM in Slovakia, both of which are increasing production.
Bofors also probably makes 155mm and there are probably others.
Pre war the EU was making 20k a month, and US 14k, plus BAE. A lot of EU factories (Rheinmetall and Spanish ones) were running on low capacity.
Just to chuck in my pen’orth of comments.
Drone defence. I am not sure that electronic drone defence will ever “out” properly. jamming devices is probably all we will hear of it,,unless there is some physical evidence..guns or pew pew devices. My guess regarding hothi drones…they are not trying too hard electronically to disable these thing in order to hide our capability. Likely they would be hit hard if a drone got too close.
Attack drones generally appear to be much too slow. Four poster types will never be that quick. Makes them easy to jam or shoot down. A shahed type cruise missile (as thats what is is in reality) needs to do say 300mph. Undecided about dropping grenades into open tank hatches….hmm.. one good staged example makes it look like they do it all the time. Other than the open hatch, how large and heavy does an explosive need to be dropped on a tank to kill or disable it?
Love the Malloy drones. Really good work and out in the field already. Buy more! Malloy must have been working with Bae surely as evinced by the torpedo mockup.
It makes sense to snap up Malloy. Before there were three men in a shed (ok, there’s 80 in the factory) and now there’s three men in a shed with access to a parts bin of military grade gubbins and all the muscle that comes with a big international company?
Really want to see the torpedo dropper come to fruition. If it could have a small inbuilt dipping transponder to absolutely nail the drop point (rather than doing general area searching) wow, what a tool.
AA
They are electronic devices being controlled using encrpyted radio frequencies, generally based on off the shelf electronics. If that encyption can be broken or a backdoor can be found, then you have an effective anti-drone system, at least until they are upgraded to counter it.
every last bit of aid from the UK should be provided in UK manufactured items.
This can help in supporting R&D or manufacturing.
We should not be paying out cash or non UK items unless we absolutely have no choice.
UK has a really good aerospace industry, we should be world leaders in Drones, instead we are so far off the pace it’s embarrassing. Total lack of strategy by HMG
I wonder though are we getting a bit side tracked by the whole drone warfare scenario? It seems to me that the heavy use of drones by both sides in Ukraine is due to static front lines caused in no small way by a lack of combat air superiority and air dominance. Given Nato’s doctrine of integrated and powerful air power influencing the ground element I’m not so sure about drones being the future. I’m not saying that there’s no role for them, just not as all encompassing as is being suggested. I note that when the Houthis attempted mass drone attacks on Western forces, they were blatted from the skies immediately.
First you need to obtain air superiority. Western doctrine seems to think that is a given. If you can’t obtain air superiority, Ukraine is where you end up (provided the other side also fails). The problem with cheap drones, you need cheap solutions & missiles aren’t a cheap solution. If Ukraine can take out a modern fighter/bomber with a cardboard drone, so can anyone else.
Houthi missiles & drones are decidedly at the lower end. In Ukraine, they would hardly rate a mention.
Civilian companies & associated insurance companies are worried about the Red Sea. Convoy’s are a known solution. No-one wants to go there. Why? Because most of the ships carry the flag of a no account nation. It’s fixable, but no-one wants to.
While nothing in warfare is pre ordained or certain, from what we’ve seen of the RuAF performance to date and from what we’ve seen of Nato and western air power over the past years, it’s fairly clear at the moment that air superiority would be gained by Nato in any conflict. It’s a central part of Nato doctrine, no western military wants to be caught in a WW1 style stalemate. Manoeuvre warfare is their creed.
Cost effective anti drone systems do exist, 20/30/40 mm guns paired to a radar system mounted on a vehicle are effective. Western technology has had no difficulty in detecting drones. Being Iranian supplied, I would have thought that the Houthi shahed drones were the same as the ones used by Russia against Ukraine.
Certainly guns are effective, however they are short ranged for the wider area coverage. Does an RWS mount on (say) a Boxer have anti drone capability? If so, or if they could be modified to counter drones, this would be of much benefit in an providing “organic” counter drone capability on a wider basis.
I did like the picture I saw of a DS30 mount on a flatbed. Two or three on an airfield would provide a decent ‘leaker’ defence for critical structures.
AA
Yes, something like that is what I was thinking, or something similar to the German Gepard system.
Something like the new German Boxer with the Oerlikon Sky Ranger 35 in this film. The gun can be used from the back of a MAN SX/HX or even as a DROPS load.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaQIxdii8tY
I’m noticing a very interesting pattern, everything there is major bad news (for boris, truss, sunak) either they visit Zelenskyy or he comes here. Followed a few days later an announcement of additional aid. Happened now too many times to be a coincidence.
Zelenskyy seems to be playing a blinder with our messed up political ruling party. Can’t say I blame him, good on him.
The Gem-7 UAV is better value.
Airframe designed, flown and certified.
Engine designed, flown and certified.
Autoflight designed, flown and certified.
Max takeoff weight 300 kg
Max endurance 30 hrs
Max range 3,500 km
Payload 30 – 90 kg
Best range and endurance in class.
Two man operation, with 15 minute assembly.
Operations from any farmer’s field.
Automated take off and landing
Aerobatic (ie: rugged and durable).
Gem Aero Ltd
But it’s not a one way attack drone and doesn’t fit any of the requirements.