Scottish shipyard to build warship for Ukraine

Thanks. So was pomerania ethnically cleansed by the poles?

Technically also by the Russians. The Poles had very little do do with the Genocide other than occupying the lands that where suddenly empty (after Eastern Poland was ethnically cleansed of poles by the Russians as well I might add).

Dern, of course I don’t support genocide, ethnic cleansing or massacres committed by Russians or any other people, including the massacres committed by Teutonic Knights in 1255.

it would be helpful if you could give further context, which Russian genocide are you referring to? there have been so many to date; place, time, name? Also, I was wondering, do you view this event from a personal perspective or as an outsider with an interest in history. Obviously you need not answer that question, although it does help to explicate the frame of reference, as I wouldn’t wish to upset you by making an inappropriate comment.

I feel that we the British might need to rename a lot of suburbs, towns, cities all around the world … and the odd country too, due our very own misadventures in genocide, ethnic, cleansing and massacres. As I had to brush up on the term genocide as I knew it had evolved since being concocted by Lemkin 1944. In doing so I found an interesting article on reddit r/AskHistorians regarding the Irish Potato famine 1845-1852 compared to the Holodomor/Soviet Famine 1932-1933.
and an answer by eddie_fitzgerald gave some excellent insights. Well worth a read imho and under a week old.

The Irish Potato Famine (1845-1852), while often viewed as a tragedy, largely escapes being labelled as a genocide by the academic community. In contrast to this, the Holodomor/Soviet Famine (1932-1933) is actively labelled as a genocide by 16 countries. What are the causes behind this difference?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/pqjz96/the_irish_potato_famine_18451852_while_often/

The Potato famine wasn’t deliberately aimed at exterminating the Irish, the Holdomor was deliberately aimed at exterminating the Ukranians.
The British, unlike the Russians have generally given back/granted independence to the places they occupied, and many of them have been renamed. So not sure what the anti-British angle here is. But enough “whataboutism”

The Russian actions in Eastern Europe where the deliberate destruction of ethnic groups that they didn’t like, and they get a free pass on it because “they where on our side.”
No, it’s not comparable. It was irredeemably evil.

So you didn’t give further information re the genocide and Königsberg, are you able elucidate on that, if not I’ll assume you can’t back it up.

I wasn’t drawing parallels between the Irish potato famine and Stalin’s acts in the Ukraine, I was drawing your attention to “intent” but I’ll have to assume that you didn’t read the commentary. 

You say “Holdomor was deliberately aimed at exterminating the Ukranians to my understanding it is not generally seen or agreed upon as an act of genocide, in my opinion it was a crime against humanity bordering on genocide, semantics aside it was heinous.

“Anti-British” oh please, that hoary old adage is as unimaginative as it is stereotypical, and you know that’s beneath you. 

When a citizen (British or otherwise) can proudly look into the eyes and heart of their country and openly question its past history with honesty and then accept, acknowledge and apprehend the critiqued response, that is the power and potency of intellect, an “edumacated” and “embiggened” mind if you will, to accept the truth and build upon it. There is no denying our own despicable deeds of the past and there is absolutely nothing “Anti-British” about it when inquiring into them, in fact it makes one a better “British Person”. 

“whataboutism” says you, you who deflected my initial question about a massacre re Königsberg, with a dull accusation of sorts when a straight forward simple answer would have sufficed. Maybe you thought I was being dastardly and playing you; trolling, I wasn’t as that’s not my MO as I don’t find anything rewarding comes from it, so a sincere answer to a benign question would have been easy. As you were the one who found the name Kaliningrad distasteful due to historical events I pointed out our need to re-examine our own distasteful historical events, that’s not “whataboutism” that’s opening the discussion to further discourse, I think you should have agreed and moved on, but you accuse me of “Anti-British” sentiment and to be frank that does not sit well with me, not at F’n all. “… How very dare you” as Catherine would say.

You wrote […and they get a free pass on it because “they where on our side.”…] Why you pointing this out to me, I don’t know, I am certainly not giving the Fucks a free pass, a pox on their house I say, besides the Russians were never on our side, we needed them they needed us. Nonetheless it is true they were given a pass by the Allies as that was the strategy employed at the time as needs ebbed and flowed, much like knowledge of concentration camps, that is the horrific nature of war and it’s not relegated to just your area of interest. 

The maxim – One death is a tragedy, a million deaths a statistic – is, when one meditates on how true the abstraction is, it is entirely demoralising another testimony of how irredeemably corrupt of virtue the modern civilisation has become; hundreds of millions of people who have and are dying in famine and war.

{The quote is often misattributed to Stalin in the form “If only one man dies of hunger, that is a tragedy. If millions die, that’s only statistics” by the Washington Post 20 January 1947. However it was Kurt Tucholsky 1890–1935 a German writer and satirist who wrote – The death of one man: that is a catastrophe. A hundred thousand deaths: that is a statistic! … and attributed it to a French diplomat in the essay ‘Französischer Witz [French Wit]’ in Vossische Zeitung 23 August 1925}.

Still haven’t received an answer to my honest question.

edited to add { parentheses }

I’ll start with your last point. Any true democracy has no interest in waging war as an aggressor there are simply no votes in it. Providing a deterent against attack certainly or defending your allies certainly but otherwise you will get thrown out of office.

On your comment about an American dominated organisation I think you might be falling for your own Government’s propaganda. NATO countries will have nothing to do with making an unprovoked attack on another country.

It is interesting seeing a fanatic at work on the comment section.

If America is your biggest security concern, joining them in a military collective defence pact eliminates your big fear over night doesn’t it? And your real fear should be China racing up the East and nicking the raw minerals you haven’t the money to excavate

Indeed China is I suspect it’s greatest fear actually whatever it’s public stance. I can only speculate but I suspect Russia is willing to pursue a balancing act here some might say a pact with the devil but probably their only available policy tbh. China is the future and Russia intends to play the role of the useful idiot the longer it goes on but does give it some relative strength or illusion of it for the foreseeable future. It keeps the rest of the World guessing and in fear both in Europe and the Far East which suits both Countries. Equally one can’t but see some semblance of the old Nazi Soviet pact being revisited in which both have their sphere of operations and conquests (economic now military only as required). Effectively Russia buys its own existence by being China’s wingman in Europe with freedom to do what it wants there keeping that front busy leaving China free to establish the Pacific as its lake. Russia increasingly plays the minor partner but gains nonetheless. What happens thereafter of course is anyone’s guess but as usual such relationships tend to falter the more they achieve their initial goals and the mutual usefulness fades. Thereafter if it’s lucky Russia is tolerated as that pawn. This great game of China, if not then it’s fate becomes that of the rest of us if they have their way in these Initial stages of economic war backed up with implied military threat.

Wow there you go a totally one eyed view of the realities no one has any reason whatsoever to fear Russia apparently and it’s actions despite in our very personal case having both a nuclear and biological attack on our shores instigated by that regime in the past decade. Had the opposite happened I wonder how close to all out war we would have become. So no we really don’t have to care a fig about your views of us and our actions either. Whatever the faults in our democracies and there are many I point out here and elsewhere regularly at least I and others can do so without being eliminated by the psychopathic actions of a dictator. And hey I don’t like my leader, I don’t like the major opposition leader much either indeed I don’t like a two party system but hey it’s immeasurably better than a one party dictatorship where even growth of any second opposition party is made through brutal force and intimidation impossible. If you actually voted to support that then that’s anyone needs to know about your intentions towards the rest of humankind. Hell I have great dislike of the Americans (certainly their political structures) but I am equally knowledgable enough to recognise without them we would be vassals under a regime that has a history of killing many hundreds of thousands of its own people let alone those it doesn’t see as insiders.

Spyinthesky […in our very personal case having both a nuclear and biological attack on our shores instigated by that regime in the past decade….]

Out of interest, what Russian nuclear attack on the UK shores in the last 10 years … or even longer? interested in that.

Edited because I used the built in quote marks and I didn’t like the look it produced, so reverted to my style as seen at top.

Seriously??

1. The use of Polonium to kill Litvinenko.

2. The use of Novichok in an attempt to murder the Skripals in Salisbury.

Do try and keep up.

Thank you, no seriously … Thank you PC. I knew the incident involving Alexander Mishkin and Colonel Anatoliy Vladimirovich Chepiga and the now named Denis Sergeev. It was the Po-210 incident that I had entirely forgotten about, mea culpa domine.
Please allow me to present some music to sooth your irascibility at my memory lapse. Seriously (again) do you believe the PC Act was an encumbrance to Trump?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1tSVVhRRfg

Probably the Narrower European as Europe already has a Highspeed Rail system and Russia doesn’t.

Well thx for that. I learned something. Obviously the 4ft 8 1/2 inch standard would be our contribution to the design. We would loan the Evening Star for the inaugural run.

Well, the thing is Putin has to want to end the isolation. But he actually cultivates a bunker mentality. It’s how he keeps himself in power as the saviour of his people.

Point taken. I certainly agree there is little the west can or should do. It is for the Russian people.

Yep! Unfortunately much of the population is too drunk and lazy to even work never mind start a revolution. Like I said, the interesting moment is what will happen when Putin pops his clogs.

Depressing but accurate take I fear.