The almost eight times increase in NATO Response Force troops is due to the threat posed by Russia, say the Alliance.

For clarity, the NATO Response Force is a highly ready and technologically advanced multinational combat force made up of land, air, maritime and Special Operations Forces components that the Alliance can deploy quickly, wherever needed.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg gave a speech today ahead of a meeting in Madrid amongst NATO allies set to adopt a new strategy for the Alliance. The strategy reportedly describes Moscow as a direct threat.

Stoltenberg said:

“Our NATO Summit in Madrid this week will be transformative. With many important decisions. Including on a new Strategic Concept for a new security reality. A fundamental shift in NATO’s deterrence and defence. And support to Ukraine now, and for the future.

Our new Concept will guide us in an era of strategic competition. I expect it will make clear that Allies consider Russia as the most significant and direct threat to our security. It will address China for the first time. And the challenges that Beijing poses to our security, interests, and values. It will also cover our evolving approach to a number of other threats and challenges. Including terrorism, cyber, and hybrid. At the Summit, we will strengthen our forward defences.

We will enhance our battlegroups in the eastern part of the Alliance up to brigade-levels. We will transform the NATO Response Force. And increase the number of our high readiness forces to well over 300,000.

We will also boost our ability to reinforce in crisis and conflict.Including with:

  • More pre-positioned equipment, and stockpiles of military supplies.
  • More forward-deployed capabilities, like air defence.
  • Strengthened command and control.
  • And upgraded defence plans, with forces pre-assigned to defend specific Allies.

These troops will exercise together with home defence forces.

And they will become familiar with local terrain, facilities, and our new pre-positioned stocks.  So that they can respond smoothly and swiftly to any emergency. Together, this constitutes the biggest overhaul of our collective deterrence and defence since the Cold War. And to do this, we will need to invest more. Today, we are releasing new defence spending figures. They show that 2022 will be the eighth consecutive year of increases across European Allies and Canada. By the end of the year, they will have invested well over 350 billion US dollars extra since we agreed our defence investment pledge in 2014. Nine Allies now reach – or exceed – the 2% target. Nineteen Allies have clear plans to reach it by 2024. And an additional five have concrete commitments to meet it thereafter. Two percent is increasingly considered a floor, not a ceiling. We will also agree to invest more together in NATO. For the benefit of our security.

The Ukrainian government and people continue to resist Russia’s brutal war of aggression. Their courage and commitment are an inspiration. And I welcome that President Zelenskyy will join us at the NATO Summit. NATO and Allies have provided substantial support to Ukraine since Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014. Including with military and financial aid. And training for tens of thousands of Ukrainian forces. All of this is making a difference on the battlefield every day. And since the invasion in February, Allies have stepped up even more. With billions of euros’ worth of military, financial, and humanitarian assistance. At the Summit, we will agree a strengthened Comprehensive Assistance Package for Ukraine. This will include substantial deliveries of support. In areas like secure communications, anti-drone systems, and fuel. Over the longer term, we will help Ukraine transition from Soviet-era military equipment, to modern NATO equipment. And further strengthen its defence and security institutions. At the Summit, we will also take decisions to continue adapting NATO.”

You can read the full transcript here.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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421 COMMENTS

    • Indeed…
      It will be interesting to see if any of the member nations (Hungary springs to mind) are not that inclined to put troops forward…

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      • He’ll deny it was a shopping centre,
        or that the Ukrainians had installed a HIMARS next to the deli counter,
        or that it must have been a false flag attack by the Ukranians…

        because he’s incapable of admitting the truth.

        • Looked more like a block of flats in the photo I saw.

          Anti air operations in large cities have always been fraught with danger. You may remember that there was a similar Kiev block hit by a missile back I think in March. At the time social media videos were still allowed and it was determined that it was a misfiring Ukrainian S-300 or Buk missile. Whilst those videos are no longer seen the Russians are saying that last night the same happened again. In their words, which I know some of you will dismiss as tosh, but they have an opinion.

          “Kiev attempted to intercept Russian high-precision missiles by the means of air defence deployed in the city. Ukrainian S-300 and Buk-M1 air defence system crews had launched over 10 air defence missiles. Due to lack of interoperability between the launching ramps of the air defence systems and electronic facilities deployed in residential areas, 2 S-300 air defence missiles have been intercepted by Ukrainian Buk systems. One of the intercepted air defence missiles has presumably fallen down to a residential building.”

          • Well we have seen video on the news and quite clearly it is a shopping centre shopping centres of this nature do not look remotely like residential blocks even when blocks are built on top of them. Either way targeting civilians in their homes or while shopping is a war crime however you may try to spin it. Equally, as they have little regard for such non military targets while using heavy artillery and multiple rocket launchers I doubt that they would suddenly develop a soft side while releasing long range missiles. The only question is whether it was deliberate or due to the mediocre accuracy of these missile systems barely exceeding 50% by some estimates esp the old Soviet era examples now being commonly used.

          • It’s certainly is tosh, your opinion, just like they were before Pootin’s War on Ukraine started.
            It was a direct hit from a Russian missile on the wrong target! I mean the hit on the block of flats on Sunday morning.
            So just give yourself a break MAN!

          • Give your shite a break you yapping Putin lap dog! Any condemnation of Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine yet?

          • I admire your persistence by asking him this question but he has nothing and won’t respond until Moscow gives their troll team new talking points to run with.

          • I know I know I should give it a rest but every single time he refuses to condemn he confirms he is a sad Nazi Putin loving troll! Cheers.

          • Not at all as you won’t reply, as you support the illegal invasion of Ukraine but are to cowardly to admit it. Simple really.

          • He’s got a point, you did used to throw yourself out of planes capable of landing 😉

          • You won’t answer because of moral cowardice on your part, a typically spineless, clueless dictator’s lapdog, who comes out yapping but then, like a frightened reptile slithers back under its rock when challenged. I’ve chocolate teapots that have more integrity than you.

          • Why should I answer? It is not a condition of posting on this site that we publish our political stance.

            Its just a pathetic waste of time and space asking time and time again, along the lines of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

          • So based on your response I’m assuming you answered that question at some point previously. If that’s the case then can you point me to where you did as I’m very much interested in hearing the Russian point of view on this.

          • Speaking of Yourself again, with you now making accusations of insanity?
            If you Don’t like the heat in the kitchen, Get out of the kitchen!
            As I said before give yourself a break MAN!

          • So, you’re not condeming Putins illegal invasion then? So you’re saying that naked aggression and targeting civilians is okay got it.

          • Since you have been asked likely a bazillion times if you condem the invasion of Ukraine and have refused to do so ,presumable you support said Invasion? I think the pertinent question here is why do you support the invasion of Ukraine by Russia? Maybe it would move things along if you explained your, self evident ,support for Russia in this case.

          • OK, there were two incidents, one in Kiev, which was the one I mentioned above and one in the Kremenchuk shopping centre which is the one I think Sean mentioned. There are problems with both in that both buildings back onto major armaments/munitions works.

            In Kiev that same building was damaged in another strike on April 29 and has been empty since. The target, the Artyom plant, which produces air-to-air guided missiles and artillery shells, was apparently destroyed last night by four Kh-101s.

            Behind the Kremenchuk shopping centre was the large Kredmash machine plant which also may have been a target (no claim by Russian MoD to have done so). Video of the fire shows a carpark with no cars or bicycles in it, people walking around unconcernedly, leading to a possible conclusion that, like the shopping centre destroyed in April? in Kiev it had been turned into a military storage site. Or even derelict and destroyed by the Ukrainians themselves for a NATO PR opportunity.

          • You answer yourself to back up your nonsense but you won’t answer anyones question about your refusal to condemn Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine? Here is your opportunity to do so.

          • No chance, will as always dodge that one.
            Maybe he’ll get one of his alter-ego accounts to back him up?

          • Firstly, even if what you allege is true, Ukraine has right to arm itself. Secondly, it is not the aggressor here. You consistently fail to condemn that aggression. Your insouciant tone in the face of appalling atrocities is designed to provoke. You lack a shred of moral decency.

          • Your excuses get even more pathetic and laughable, even the morons who support Putin should be capable of seeing through the tripe that you publish.

            The target in Kiev? Please feel free to believe it was destroyed, as you won’t target it again. Reality is that you missed and hit the same civilian housing block again. What level of incompetence is required to target the same facility, miss it, and hit the same civilian target twice in a row? 🤷🏻‍♂️

            As for the shopping centre, it’s not near any military targets. There were mothers, fathers, children inside, they are now dead because of you.
            (And you can forget about the rubbish about a Kiev supermarket being turned into a military storage site too. That’s another lie you’ve just invented.)

          • Regardless of what you or others think.
            Regardless of what you or others claim.

            The base reality of the situation is simple…
            Russian Armed Forces invaded a Free Sovereign nation without any precursor attack by said nation…

            Children, women and men of that nation are dying.

            If that fact escapes you and others, then please, feel free to come and visit with me…
            I will introduce you to 7 Ukrainian families staying with people from my local parish.
            All women and children!! No men at all, they are at home, defending it… and none have ever been in the military…

            Perhaps you and others might then understand just what this unprovoked attack by a melomaniac, pining for the USSRs glory days has actually done…

            But of course, we all know, you wont….

          • Stop trying to make it sound like we’re the ones confused here.

            The first post was about the shopping centre. You said it looked like a block of flats.

            You corrected yourself, but then claim the block of flats was empty, despite twelve people being injured and one killed.

            https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60733921

            It’s been fun seeing the Russian excuses here, but I think it’s time you were banned from here. It’s no longer entertaining and potential harmful. It certainly adds nothing to discussion of most topics you comment on.

          • Have you seen the “impartial” website he is using as his evidence FFS what a pathetic figure he is now cutting!

          • FFS you proudly use that website as a confirmed impartial link! It’s anti capitalist, anti war and anti liberal, as it’s menu states! Well at least it’s a website and not the usual random waster waffling on YouTube you seem to use more than not to “support” your crap! For someone who claims to spend such an amount of time on research your evidence and “proof” is so weak, pathetic and so fucking random (tin foil hat squad) it makes you seem even sadder than normal.

          • As usual, you’re fulsome in your praise for the Russian military and full of belittling sneers and smears about anything Ukrainian. Even blaming them for defending themselves against a genocidal onslaught by Russia.

            “Anti air operations in large cities have always been fraught with danger .”

            Really ? Firstly, just what would you know about air defence, have you ever had to defend your home against armed assault?, and in point of fact, what’s really fraught with danger is the lives of innocent Ukrainian citizens in any town or region that is occupied by Russia, where theft, rape, summary execution, forced abduction into Russia, imprisonment, torture and disease are daily realities for them. Yet still not a single word from you or your fellow travellers on the documented genocide being perpetrated on Ukraine by Russia. Point out where I’m wrong in this as you’re always bleating about factual debate and comment. You won’t of course, moral courage and having a spine are noted deficits in nazi apologists and propagandists.

            So, as you said to Sean yesterday, put up or shut up Ivanovich.

          • You never fail us. What a piece of work. The cause of all this destruction of life is solely down to a country and a man you have defended since the first Russian tank that wasn’t ever going to invaded Ukraine rolled in. Moral decency is just something other people possess.

          • Yes well we’ve all previously established that you’re blind, deaf, and daft, so I’m not surprised you thought it was something else. I wouldn’t have been surprised if you said it was a absurdly large Ukrainian tank disguised as shopping centre.

            No the Russians claim every time they murder civilians that it’s misfiring Ukrainian air-defence missiles. But we known it’s Russian missiles deliberately targeting civilians, because it knows the only way it can win wars is by terrorising civilians and flattening cities. It’s sheer military incompetence means it’s unable to win any other way.

            I hope, one day, you suffer a fate similar to those poor Ukrainian shoppers you murdered today.

          • The best thing is he’s gone “Oh no, we didn’t target a civilian shopping mall, we targeted a block of flats.” as if his side blowing up a block of flats, you know, where civilians, women and children live, WOULD BE ANY BETTER.

          • @Sean, spot on! With the very first sentence too, with its own paragraph!

            JohninMK, I’ve screencapped that. I’m not going to let you forget your comment here.

            As for the shopping centre that was hit. An intercepted missile simply does not do that much damage.

          • Good god, he keeps going dosen’t he 🤣🤣🤣😂
            Deny, deny, deny…..

            Soooo, any condemnation of that murderous little shit Putin yet JohninMk?

          • Fuck off. This was a deliberate attack on civilians, and the fact that you open with anything but “yes that was disgusting” is horrific.

        • It’s those damn Beko fridge sourced silicon chips they are using don’t you know …or maybe the string just snapped.

          • I don’t think it was just the chips from Bekos, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Russians we having to drop Bekos out of the back of transport aircraft because they’re running out of munitions.

          • Nowt wrong with Beko fridges Ive had one myself and its already lasted 4 weeks before it broke down.
            Dont worry Johnski will be along to tell us all how the shopping centre was a front for Ukrainian Nazi party operatives and they were stockpiling NATO weapons there. Or that the special military operation is intended to rebuild Ukraine in the spirit of freedom and the new Russian Empire of Tsar Putin the Great. Problem is before rebuilding they have to flatten the place and depopulate it first.

    • First the pro Russia crowd claimed that Moscow wouldn’t invade
      Then they claimed Moscow had to go in to remove the Nartsees
      Then they claimed they had to protect the Russian speaking people sorry Russians who have had to endure years of shelling from the above Nartsees
      Then they claimed that it was NATOs fault
      Then they claimed that it would be over soon
      Then they claimed that Ukraine could stop all this suffering if it simply stated it wouldn’t join NATO
      Then they claimed that Ukraine should think about its people’s welfare by surrendering
      Then they claimed that Sanctions are hurting the West more than they are Russia.
      Not once have they condemned the invasion of the Ukraine by Moscow.
      Have to ask what will they come up with next?

      • Basically that means “wa, wa, wa it is all Ukraine fault because of wa, wa, wa.”

        Have I got that right?

        In this context wa, wa, wa can be replaced with any pseudo geopolitical rubbish of quotes from Mein Kamph that have been Vladimdated by Peter The Great II His Putiness.

      • F my man , I’m broadly with you on much of what you say however the whole sanctions thing is a wee bit Smokey/mirrors Russia made 78 billion dollars in the 1st 100 days of this conflict from energy sales.

        The price of oil has sky rocketed which has more than offset the Wests sanctions and half hearted boycott of Russian oil and the lower export volumes. Also Russia has easily found alternate buyers for its energy, notably China and India. It’s Europe these sanctions are having a greater effect on.

        Get this India is importing crude Russian oil, refining it , then Re exporting it back to Europe at a profit which means Europe is still funding Putins war only now they are paying a fee for the privilege of doing so. Wee Von der Leyen ignoring her own advice but then that’s the EU through and through.

        You won’t hear any of this on the shitehoose MSM that the majority inform themselves from.

        Sanctions are actually helping fund Russia’s war. This is a calamity and I don’t believe it’s an unintended consequence . There are always those in the West who don’t want a successful war they want a never ending war I won’t even start on the WEF and what they want…….. nothing is as it seems that big wheel spins the hair thins…..

        And I’ll estate my position before the mob comes after me I DON’T SUPPORT RUSSIA or Ukraine in this tragedy .

        🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

      • How about this? Every claim you sited is correct. But, as everyone here will be well aware, plans or predictions only last until the first contact with an enemy.

        There is a long way to go yet.

      • Under no circumstances will Russia tolerate the conversion of the Black Sea to into a NATO “llake”Western aggression caused Russia to annexe Crimea in 2014 and continued NATO aggression brought about the Special Military Operation as it poses an existential threat to Russia in perpetuity.

          • Yes mate, thought I’d dip my toe in for a bit of troll baiting.

            He’s, it’s, a total embarrassment.

          • Agreed, I may give it a break as it’s taking me away from the actual stories we can chat about, but, I can’t promise anything lol

          • You are far to nice to me, ok a few more challenges to the online SS nonce squad of JohninMK, James and Anal Moore then it’s back to serious story waffling 👍😂!

          • Put your handbag away, put down the Putin picture and tissue and troll somewhere else bot boy!

          • 1. Ukraine hasn’t joined NATO, and with a territorial dispute wouldn’t have been able to, as Russia should know all too well.

            2. I’ve voiced my opposition to Ukraine’s NATO membership here before, so do keep up.

            3. No, as Russia’s coastline borders much of it.

            4. Insults only belittle yourself.

            5. Russia’s own behaviour caused them to attack Crimea, no one forces them to do anything, certainly not NATO.

            6. No one has posed an existential threat to Russia since Adolf Hitler.

            It must be fun in your house.

          • In the past A Moore seemed, or pretend to be a retired non-com. Army officer some months back. Have I missed something happened to him since then?

          • I’d read you mentioning that, never saw A Moore say that myself.
            TH or Harold returned maybe?

          • I think that was someone else with a similar handle?

            The other Moore could write recognisable English sentences……also he checked out unless it was an assumed persona.

          • Don’t confuse A. Moore with Graham Moore who is an excellent poster and ex R.E.M.E. officer I believe.

          • Ah the nazi trollbot awakens and spews forth its bullshit. You’ve a long way to go with your spelling and grammar before you convince anyone here.

            Here’s one for your algorithm, which is best, four candles or fork handles?

          • I’m almost certain I’ve been asked that on a pre-employment psych test before 🤣🤣👍

          • NATO countries already border the Black Sea and have done since nato was created. Turkey controls the only access point into and out of the Black Sea. Turkey is in nato! Russia also has always had access to the Black Sea due its coast line. Look at a map before u claim such nonsense.
            The reason countries want to be part of nato is to protect them from other countries aggression. Perhaps Russia should be looking at itself for why countries do not want to be aligned with them instead of blaming everyone else for there own errors.

          • Is the North Sea a British Lake? Ever heard of the International Law of the Sea? My advice is stay away from sites where people understand more than you do and that’s nearly all of them except the ones run by Mr D. Icke.

          • War is the complete opposite of CIVILIZATION .There never has been any morality in war. What do you think the fire bombing of Hamburg,Dresden and Tokyo were?Its no good quoting Sunday School in war.Russia has the military capacity to totally kill the population of Europe and North America.Tyson Fury is not going to enter the ring against a Polar Bear,you obviously would.Biden immediately ordered the withdrawal of US naval vessels from the Black Sea on 24/2/22 and sent them to Greece.They have not returned.NATO is getting ever more desperate-they will be sanctioning russian butterfly milk next!The bloated mouth of Boris Johnson is merely self promotion with his constant proclaiming”I am the fattest floor mop”

          • Russia is the opposite of civilization. Throughout the 20th century and this century its history is tainted by genocidal campaigns, death camps, mass imprisonment, warcrimes, attacks on neighbouring countries, invasions, oppression, economic stagnation, military and political incompetence, poisoning, chemical and nuclear attacks, barbarism, theft and murder. It is a fascist gangster mafia state now, run by a psychopath.

            You haven’t a clue about what you’re talking about, another craven bullshit spouting apologist.

          • AM wrote:
            War is the complete opposite of CIVILIZATION
            Is it? Islam, the Mongols, the Incas, the Mayans, the Persians and even the West advanced their civilisations via the use of war. Due to war, we have seen the development of ideas which have advanced humanity :
            Nuclear power
            Jet engines
            Space race
            Medicine
            The Internet

            AM wrote:
            There never has been any morality in war.
            There isn’t, haven’t you heard of the age of chivalry, how about the truce on Christmas day, what about the Islamic penchant of allowing captives to buy their freedom. What about low yield weapons and finally what about the subscription to the GC.

            AM wrote:
             What do you think the fire bombing of Hamburg, Dresden and Tokyo were?
            Yeah terrible, but all three came after both countries in question decided that they wanted what others had and set upon total war in which to achieve their aims, so spare me the faux outrage over how two of the most vile regimes in recent history got their just reward.

            AM gushed:
            Russia has the military capacity to totally kill the population of Europe and North America.
            Yes it has, and on the other foot so has Europe and the US towards Russia. Your point?

            AM laughed:
            Biden immediately ordered the withdrawal of US naval vessels from the Black Sea on 24/2/22 and sent them to Greece.They have not returned
            And you leave out that Turkey, which controls access to the Black sea has banned all movements of military vessels, which explains why Moscow has a fleet of ships in the Med, just hanging around twiddling their thumbs. it really does help if you quoted all the facts. Such as Nations which don’t border the Black sea need to give 15 days warning to enter it and that only 9 ships to a total tonnage of 15K tonnes can enter and for a total of 21 days.

            AM wrote:
            NATO is getting ever more desperate-
            How so, NATO is not operating inside the Ukraine, and hasn’t suffered any losses. (unlike Moscow)

            AM wrote:
            The bloated mouth of Boris Johnson is merely self promotion with his constant proclaiming”I am the fattest floor mop”
            ?????

          • Turning it into a NATO lake would require the annexation of Rostok, Novorossyisk, Sochi and Batumi by NATO.

            Hint: NATO isn’t the side that annexes other nations lands.

          • Yeah, fuck off cunt.
            Come back when you can geography, because unlike you, I can read a map.

          • NATO controls which ships can enter and leave the Black Sea, so yes, it’s a ‘NATO Lake’ already! 😂

          • Ooooooh ‘child’ huh that word alone speaks of an overbearing and insufferable personality flaw?

        • You even termed it a special military operation FFS total confirmed troll, a troll being so obvious in order to deflect from JohninMKs garbage but on occasion more subtle propaganda.

          • Yeh, certainly read like bad cop, worse cop with these two…

            Point is, that for all their trolling and Russian mis-information generally the West is still holding firm as this announcement from NATO clearly shows.

            Must be realling peeing them off…

            Cheers CR

          • Agreed, the amount of trolling and ms-information in general shows they are flapping like fuck!

          • Let us summarise the ‘special operation’ thus far.

            Elite troops and crack special forces thrashed before the gates of Kyiv, one of the most astounding feats of arms in Europe for 77 years at least.

            The ‘special operation’ designed to ‘halt’ N.A.T.O. expansion has resulted in Sweden, effectively neutral since the end of the Napoleonic Wars, to apply to join N.A.T.O. Finland, studiously neutral since 1944, also wishes to join N.A.T.O. Last January only minorities in both those countries considered joining N.A.T.O. was in the national interest. Effectively the entire western world is united as hardly ever before. Vladimir Putin, architect.

            Russia is stuck in a slogging match it has no idea how to progress and must now realise the only winner here, whatever happens, is N.A.T.O. Some operation!

            Russia faces an extremely difficult future in coming years and will effectively be a’failed state’; it will be ruined. This to no one’s advantage. The west thrives on working together with like minded, well run countries with free and plural institutions. The only thing that will save Russia is a complete change of governance and all the old school U.S.S.R. Re-enactment criminal types sent away – the further the better.

          • Nice summary Barry, I’ve said much the same sort of things myself over the last few months.

            You can also add that Ben Wallace is asking for more money for defence backed up by the CGS.

            Trouble is dictators who surround themselves with supporters and sycophants get told what they want to hear so make real world decisions based fairy tale data…

            Cheers CR

          • He probably had to call it a “special military operation” – JohnInMK has probably been disciplined by his superiors for referring to it as a “war”.
            Putin jails people for using that word.

        • You really have to declare your background (nationality and military experience) as everyone otherwise will think you are a Russian troll.
          Then we can discuss your claims.

          • Indeed. But before we sentence AM to ritual stoning we might reflect that given that the West did nothing about Russian involvement in Syria and failed to anticipate Crimea we are where we are either because of monumental foreign policy failures to read the Russian psyche, which I find difficult to believe, or because some groups in the west actually wanted to provoke a war with Russia.

          • Up you your last sentence you made sense. Joe Biden could not provoke anyone to wear socks. Dictators such as Vladimir Putin are not provoked; they scheme. He saw weakness, in America, in Germany, at the U.N. and he struck when he was ready. Or so he thought.

          • The strategy of subtle provocation has been going on for some time: see my post to Sean. And bears all the hallmarks of Donald Trump.
            After his divorce (2014) we saw Putin embrace macho man. It was clear to thinking people that we were dealing with wounded animal; bear baiting is not the way to proceed.

          • No provocation.

            After Afghanistan and Iraq the public in the West were sick of wars. Unprincipled politicians picked up on this and voted against action in Syria.
            Putin interpreted this as weakness, and as a former KGB thug and bully he sought to exploit this.

            Like most bad shit in life, it’s explainable by fuck-ups, no need for Spectre style conspiracies.

          • I disagree. ‘Provocation’ can take subtle forms. Russia has for centuries attempted to become an outward looking European country. For this it needs guaranteed access to the Baltic and the Black Sea. It sees ‘the west’ gradually encroaching to control these routes. It does not see NATO as a ‘defensive alliance’. It sees it as a military alliance capable of depriving it of key ports. The powers that be have engineered what for Russia is an existential crisis.

          • (a) The Baltic and Black Sea are international sea lines, they’re not for being controlled no more than we can stop Russian ships using the English Channel, which we can’t.

            (b) Global warming is ensuring that ports which were previously iced up over winter are navigable all year round.

            (c) Aside from raw materials Russia doesn’t produce anything, and both oil and gas can be pumped overland through pipelines far more cheaply than by tanker.

            Russia doesn’t see this as an existential crisis, Putin sees this as an opportunity to grab land and paint himself as some great leader. You should put your tin foil hat away.

          • Well we are not going to agree. One last attempt…if you are dealing with a leader who is emerging from a divorce with a wounded psyche and a persecution complex you don’t play to his fears by pressing his cultural buttons.

          • If he didn’t want to get divorced he wouldn’t have. He’s not above physically threatening the mother if his children.

            As it is, he’s shagging a former Olympic gymnast young enough to be his daughter FFS – well assuming he can still get it up, possibly the entire swaggering warload thing is because he’s impotent.

            He has no culture. He’s an opportunist bully and fantasist who joined the KGB because he watched too many Cold War spy tv series and pictured himself as a Russian Janes Bond. He now fantasies himself as the successor to Peter the Great. He clearly has a deep routed inferiority complex.

            If NATO made a mistake, it was not placing bases in unoccupied Ukraine after the 2014 invasion. Doing that would had stopped him invading any further, because like all bully’s, he’s a coward.

          • Try this for size.Who produced Russias 13509 Artillery tubes compared with UKs 256 including those in storage.Who produced Russias 6257 nuclear warheads compared with UK 225.As for America ,they lead the world in producing…………….VFP(very fat people) and little else.The UK produces lots of paper money and little else,

          • PP wrote:
            that the West did nothing about Russian involvement in Syria 

            I’m sorry, but what would you have wanted the West to have done. Syria as a state was on the cusp of falling to a band of jihadists in 2015 when Moscow officially supported it with military support. At the time (well actually a year before) the world was more concerned with the ISIS invasion of Iraq which saw the Iraqi military collapse and ISIS knocking on the door of Bagdad a full year before Moscow sent troops into Syria. Maybe just maybe the West was more concerned about Iraq which is why we saw the start of Operation Inherent Resolve on the 15th of June 2014

          • Syria is worth a thread of its own. As in Vietnam the US found it difficult to parse nationalism from ideology, simplistically categorising everyone as an Islamic terrorist. PTSD following 9/11. There are voices in the US today who are suggesting the leader of al-Nusra (I think) should be taken off the terrorist list.
            The Iraqi WMD saga has been exhaustively debated.

          • Paul wrote:

            Syria is worth a thread of its own

            So let me get this right, you brought into the conversation Syria in which to try and claim the moral righteous card, and then when somebody replied with a lot more knowledge on the subject than your good self, you ink the board by quoting Vietnam in which to allow you to scuttle off up the nearest dark hole like a Cephalopod

          • What? I’m not claiming any moral high ground, neither am I an expert on Syria. But I’m sure that Russia would not have gone in without a signal from the US and for all I know the UK that there would be no problem. The one moral point I would make is that refugees from war torn Syria don’t seem to get fast tracked immigration visas…..
            As AM says the west fears Russian influence in the east. Having left the EU block the UK needs to weaken Russia and replace it as India’s best friend. The ‘Indo-Pacific tilt’ is a reversion to the 19th century foreign policy which pitted the British Empire against Russia in the Indian sub continent. We need India to counter China and so are cosying up to the creepy Hindu Nationalist Modi. Desperate.

          • The latter posit is correct but should read “weaken”Russia.What the west fears is Russias pivot to Asia

          • Yes, weaken is a closer description. I do believe the war in Ukraine could have been awarded had we wished to do so,

          • Paul, Russian involvement in Syria was ostensibly part of the international anti-IS ‘alliance’ but it soon became clear that they aided Syrian forces in their oppression. What could the West do? The West, especially Obama, also did not deal with Assad when he unleashed chemical weapons against his own people.

            I don’t see that this weakness translates into a desire to provoke a war with Russia – logic says that the West was tryng to avoid conflict with Russia by its inactivity.

          • Graham, just one last thought on this…any dog owner will tell you that your well behaved mutt, if it’s on a lead is likely to get attacked by an agressive dog which is roaming free…an animal knows when you can’t or won’t defend yourself. I think this is what happened with Obama, Putin and Syria. Putin is KGB. He works on the animal level. Not provocation as such …but you see what I’m getting at. Cheers

          • Please accept my apologies to you Graham!
            I confused A Moore with you. Now I know that he is not the same person.

          • I have now realised my mistake, thinking he was someone else. The real G Moore who is genuine.
            Apologies for any offence caused.

          • Some potentially good news Daniele.

            “Britain and its allies face their “1937 moment” following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and must do everything possible to avert another world war, the new head of the Army is set to say.

            The warning emerged as Prime Minister Boris Johnson is expected to announce an uplift in UK defence spending this week, in line with growing security challenges.”

            https://news.sky.com/story/britain-and-allies-face-1937-moment-following-ukraine-war-head-of-army-to-warn-12641463

            And a prayer for the innocent people of Ukraine who are suffering daily.

          • Nice try. Now I know you’re just pillocking. Was A Moore the name of the tutor who spoke English on the CDs you used to learn English in Pune? Now you spend time in an anti west social media farm? Little tip, stop copying and pasting things from your crob sheets without removing the capitalisation. We can tell it’s copied and pasted. And by the way, in true Indian social media form, using obscure and out of date English phrases does make you better at English. It shows you’re trying too hard

          • And how did they do that without invading the Falklands?a little investment in socratic questioning would do you some good.You confuse actus reus with mens rea dear child.

          • No morality- but there are international laws and Russia has committed mass rape, looting, crimes against humanity. slaughter of innocent non combatant civilians. Would you care to either deny those facts or at least have the decency to admit they are wrong?
            To be honest I hope Putin does get too confident and makes a single mistake so NATO can go in and kick your Russian fascist arses back to the stone age.

          • Law is for lawyers,War is for warriors.Lawyers only speak for victorious warriors,see Mcarthurs speach on USS Missouri.”ALL ISSUES HAVE BEEN SETTLED ON THE BATTLEFIELD”Keep up your Sunday School lessons.

        • Well clearly Putin doesn’t have any maps if he thinks that. The Black Sea is bordered by Bulgaria, Georgia, Romania, Russia, Turkey, and Ukraine.
          Of these Bulgaria, Romania, and Turkey are member states of NATO, representing over half the Black Sea coastline. Add in those countries who want to join NATO, namely Ukraine and Georgia, and the Black Sea is virtually a NATO lake already.
          But the clincher? A NATO member, Turkey, controls all maritime access to and from the Black Sea via the Bosporus.
          Which is why no Russia is unable to send any ships to reinforce its rapidly diminishing Black Sea Fleet. (Or is that just Black Sea Squadron now?)
          😂

          NATO doesn’t commit aggression. It has invaded zero countries in Europe.
          Whereas Russia has invaded Hungary (1956), Czechoslovakia (1968), Georgia (2008), Ukraine (2914, 2022). It’s clear Russia is the aggressor not NATO. That’s why when countries have a free choice they choose to join NATO.

          NATO isn’t a threat to Russia. We’d leave your godforsaken wilderness alone if it keeps it’s rapist thugs inside it’s own borders. The greatest threat to Russia, is it’s mad dictator who have looted the country of billions is now intent on using its population as cannon fodder in pointless and self-defeating wars.

        • You see John its easy to come clean with your ‘beliefs’ on here after all. It’s a shame and a missed chance to disentangle yourself that you have to change your name to do so. Alfred Hitchcock would have loved you as a movie character back in his day 👍

        • AM wrote:
          Under no circumstances will Russia tolerate the conversion of the Black Sea to into a NATO “llake

          Do you know where the Black sea is do you know that Russia on its own holds (by legal accounting of its borders and not including the annexed parts of other countries (Ukraine and Georgia) around 14% of the black sea coast line, the 3 NATO countries (Turkey/Bulgaria/ Romania) hold just under 33% of the Black Sea coast line and the Ukraine by international law (and before 2014) held 48% of the shoreline, but as others have mentioned after Moscow annexed the Crimea, thus resulting in  a border conflict between Moscow and Kyiv, saw the Ukraine chances of joining NATO end. Then there’s the little matter of the Montreux Treaty which restricts ships not belonging to the Black sea nations to a stay of a maximum of 21 day with the max tonnage of 10K for one ship or 15K combined. So do explain how with such restrictions NATO could take control of the black sea seeing as they all abide by the rule of law unlike Moscow,

          AM wrote:
          Western aggression caused Russia to annexe Crimea in 2014 

          From 2014 to 2017 I was part of an officer recruiting cell for the British Army. We would organise weekends for anybody who wanted to join the army as an Officer (Civy/TA/Regs and including those who wanted to undertake the vicars and tarts cse) we would test them on numerous things leadership qualities Physical fitness, mental agility, mental fitness, and current affairs. We would ask them to write an essay on certain subjects : Falklands/Afghanistan/NATO/Brexit and from 2014 the Ukraine. (Then when they arrived we would ask them to write another on the same subject and compare the two) which meant we had to know more on the subject than they did.)

          So back to your claim of NATO aggression, want to name when and where, because the last I looked the Ukraine and Poland earned independence from the Soviet Union at around the same time, the Ukraine the richer of the two decided to remain tied to Moscow, and Poland looked west, within 20 years Polands GDP eclipsed the Ukraine’s and the Ukrainians wanted the same as their western neighbour, things of course weren’t helped by by how Moscow had a habit of cutting off the Gas to the Ukraine in the middle of winter and demanding a price increase in which to get it turned back on. The people demanded that the country sign a deal with the EU, the President said he would and at the 11th hour he went against his word and sided with Moscow. Protests on streets and he was removed from office. Yet the Ukrainian people voicing their displeasure at getting shafted from behind, has been remade into NATO/US/EU aggression. No it wasn’t the only aggression the Ukraine has seen has come primarily from Moscow. I unlike you can verify everything I have written. Can you?

          AM wrote:
          continued NATO aggression brought about the Special Military Operation as it poses an existential threat to Russia in perpetuity.

          What aggression? No seriously back up your claims with facts, and I will enjoy demolishing them with hard facts from reputable sources.  The ball as they say is in your court. You may wish to continue.

          • Well Russia could of been strong and all it had to do was stay in its own borders. Why can’t you grasp that is what nearly all people have an issue with.
            Nato would never of launched a special operation onto Russian soil so Russia was completely safe. Nor would it launch a first nuclear strike. So all your points about nato expansionism are irrelevant. Believe it or not all European countries have tried really hard to be Russias friend from end of the Cold War. To work together economically and strategically. Be it russia given partner status at nato; joining the G7, working together in multiple ways.
            Your point about 25 million Russians outside Russia, how many of them are still alive and living outside Russia. I would say they had 31 years to get back to Russia if that’s what they wanted and if they haven’t I would suggest that’s because they are happy where they are.

          • Also if Europe is so evil why is putins mistress and children hiding out in Switzerland instead of mother Russia?

          • Another mad rant, from Lavrov here, isn’t it?
            You have really lost your kettle, haven’t You!

          • “…it was “Russian”President Yeltsin who demanded that”Soviet “President”Gorbachov dissolve the Soviet Union which occured on 26/12/1991.The following day 25 million Russians wokeup in a foreign country…”

            That’s a great point you make. The Russians screwed themselves and they’ve been blaming the west ever since. As for the rest it’s a mix of neo-imperialism, and dodgy Russo-nationalism, and paranoid conspiracy theory.

          • AM,
            Bloody hell I know I enjoy reading sci fi, but you really should have your own aisle.

          • You have just defeated your own argument by repeating my points.Logical debating position?

        • I would love to know what Russia thinks it can do to prevent the Black Sea becoming a “NATO lake”. With Turkey guarding the Bosphorus, and RAF Akrotiri covering the approaches, how exactly would Russia plan on reinforcing its rustbuckets it calls a navy?

          • 6257 Nuclear warheads is what Russia has in its locker.More then the rest of the world combined.Meanwhile continue to count western sardine tins.On 24/2/2022 US warships were ordered to withdraw IMMEDIATELY from the black sea and proceed to Greece.

          • They aren’t even rust buckets- I would describe them as artificial reefs. Placed their deliberately by Russia to ensure a healthy Black sea environment and biodiversity.

          • Have you seen images of them trying to load a SAM system from a floating crane onto a landing barge?

            It almost didn’t need the Ukranians to bomb them.

      • Well as they are already claiming through the comic demonic mutterings of Lavrov that this is all a reflection of WW2 where it was Russia v the rest of Europe apparently (casually ignoring it was the Soviets who created a pact between them and the Nazis to split a conquered Europe between them) I’m sure there is ample scope to re write the history of the Universe to suit their narrative. It will be Klingons operating out of NATO bases next no doubt which no doubt MK will demand that we prove isn’t true.

      • Excellent summary- I think you have alluded very well to Russia’s “foreign policy”
        Missed out the real peach though from their foreign minister today. IN a speech in Turkmenistan, that great bastion for free speech and diplomacy.
        NATO weapons are prolonging the war. We should stop supplying them and the suffering would be over quicker.
        Sheezus these people are more delusional and brain-washed than those who joined the SS in 1939-1945- albeit more dangerous as they have their finger on the nuclear holocaust button.

        • You mean the Ukrainians who joined the SS DivisionGalicia.Einsatzgruppen D.manned the gas chambers at Treblinka and who fought against British forces on the Normandy Beaches(including my father the Green Howards)Their Trawniki men would soon do for you dont worry about it.A disgusting people.

          • Ah look, there he goes again, the fawning little dictator’s poodle, yapping out his incomprehensible bullshit before he scuttles back back behind his masters legs. Revelling in the murder and rape of innocents like a coward.

            Go back to the Kremlin and polish your leader’s turds. It’s all that you’re good for.

          • All true. Yet all irrelevant.
            Russian NKVD murdered thousands at Katyn, and millions elsewhere, Germans killed millions in the Holocaust, and Romanians killed tens of thousands of Jews in and around Odessa. Your point?

          • Speaking of yourself, as you are correct to call yourself a disgusting CONMAN, using FAKE name etc!
            Your Father was most likely in the SS!

          • Yawn yawn bore off with your chuff and very bad trolling. You cant even formulate a logical sentence. What about the millions of Russians on the Eastern front who joined the German army. Give your handbag a break.

    • Got to love the Russian paths of explanation here. 1) If they ordered the strike then they are just turds. 2) If they didn’t order the strike then whosoever launched is incompetent, inefficient, corrupt (or all 3). 3) If they targeted something else then the weapon’s accuracy is a joke.

    • Sean you surely are aware the target that was hit was the Kredmash machine plant which is right beside the shopping centre? . The shopping centre was NOT the target and was damaged as a result of the strike. Half truths make for good outrage opportunities.

      As always truth is the first casualty of any war .

      Again don’t support Russia , don’t approve of their actions and don’t endorse this war.

      🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

      • That’s what they might have been aiming at, with their old anti-ship missile, but what they hit was the shopping mall – apparently in the vacuity of a toy shop.

  4. More pre-positioned equipment?
    Stockpiles of military supplies?
    Forward-deployed capabilities?
    Air defence?

    Good lord – what will they think of next!

      • We’ve got some nice Ajax IFVs coming down the line – we could donate them…! Or perhaps we could just give them to the Russians, after which they would all be quivering, deaf wrecks!

        • Today’s NATO announcement will provide the MOD with a handy excuse to buy it’s way out of the General Dynamics Ajax contract…wouldn’t be surprised to see an announcement on reinstatement of WCSP and that Ajax is miraculously cured and going into production.

  5. Given that we and the USA are cutting troop numbers I have a hard time in seeing NATO going from 40,000 to 300,000. Nice sounding headline but I seriously doubt it means much. I can’t see any new brigades forming in the baltics, hope I am wrong.

    • Poland alone is talking about going to 400k, though how between their equipment shopping list and such increased manpower they are going to pay for it is another question.

        • The US Army in particular is having major recruiting problems and have had to lower their qualification standards again. No doubt this is true across all NATO when the military is not looked up to as a desirable career. A bit too much like hard work perhaps for our modern society.

          • It’s all going to be killer robots don’t ya know just like in those fantastic 40s/50s Soviet posters. Aah those were the days.

          • Don’t take the piss, the ones coming out of retirement are quality, have you seen the latest obese fat mess to be dragged back into the Russian SS! He’s going to have a great time trying to hide that fat arse from Ukraine SF and OS!

          • 👍🥮🍩🥧 a murdering fat slob, I seethefitness standards have dropped considerably, I mean how is he supposed to do the 20 yard dash to catch young girls and kids, like the rest of his dross!!!

          • Difficult I’d imagine – 11 dead generals with others relieved of command for incompetence.

            Over 30+ colonels smoked too.

            Of course we don’t know how many were killed by the Ukrainians and how many were killed by their own mutineering troops. 😆

          • Or backward ones like Russia, scraping the barrel as we chat. It wasn’t meant to be like this, was it Vladimir? Just a ‘Motor holiday’ wasn’t it? Over by lunchtime.

          • I expect a large number of people will be motivated by what is going on in the Ukrainian. That usually happen when there is a war on.Health care and chance of a collage eduction are a driver in the US which help with recruitment. Maybe the problem the NATO member have is that the vast majority are looking for highly motivated & tech savvy recruits for today armed forces. One thing this conflict has shown is that conscription & not having a core of professional NCO doesn’t work

          • “OUR modern society” – since when was Russia part of modern society? You’re rapidly degenerating back to medieval days – you’ve already achieved that with your political system and I’m sure a year from now your economy will be heading there too.

    • Latvia was pushing to double their strength, effectively, a new brigade. And there is a reason that Latvia provided Stalinist Generals and protection troops – they’re nails.

      Example? Their officer cadets get dropped off… naked… for 3 days in January -° can be -40°, I’ve been outside with -30° at 6a.m.

      Well, they’ve been given the skills and drills and they either survive or… don’t attend the Passing Out Parade. Even Airborne might not sign up for that one 😉

    • It’s not NATO going from 40,000 to 300,000. It’s increasing the high readyness troops. These are prepositioned soldiers, or soldiers on short notice to move, which means they kit is prepped and ready to go. It’s not about raw numbers in NATO forces, it’s about keeping them on high alert.

        • My wife’s just walked past and asked “is that the British Army?” !

          Are they reservists from an inner city AR centre?

          My wife has also just asked “What’s that on her head?”

          • I thought they looked like reserves mate or a PR get together for a diversity photo opportunity!

          • Yep, possibly now thinking Vader instructors possibly? Front row are officers, cannot quite see the rank flash slide!

          • London Irish Rifles Coy of London Reg is in Camberwell. Badge looks similar on G images.

          • You should have joined the int corp mate, your research skills and drills are top bloody notch!!!!!

          • Lol, cheers mate. I just have a VERY large database to draw on to look up details.

            Yes, I like finding out stuff.

          • They’ve ditched our beloved caubeen and the green hackle

            I had to eat so many smarties – washed the hackle, and dried it in the smartie tubes.

          • Your wife is very funny and very shrewd. This is about the worst photo of the British Army I have ever seen – and that has nothing to do with racial mix.

          • Jesus!… and it’s got nothing to do with race either…the armed forces should be purely based on merit and ability. (of foreign origin myself).

          • Question: Do you think Sikhs should have to shave their beards and remove their turbans when serving in the Armed Forces?

          • Not asked of me, but will give my answer, and that is that is a difficult one!!!
            Am I right in saying only certain posts in the army may wear beards anyway? I recall reading about Pioneers?
            I know whatever the rule is it does not seem to apply to SF given the number of photos of bearded members on operations.
            I watched a TV documentary about the Mets CTSFOs and there was a Sikh lad in that.
            I also heard of a plan to form a Sikh Infantry Battalion once.

          • Pioneer Sergeants are allowed to, not Pioneers in general. But I’m not arguing about beards, I’m pointing out that the Army already makes allowances, and has always made allowances for peoples cultural and religious practices when it comes to dress.

            So when a picture comes out of people wearing religious headress in uniform, or having beards in uniform and people start saying “Jesus Christ.” or calling “Woke Bollocks.” the simple fact is you have to go one of two ways: Either you remove the existing religious freedoms in army dress, even if they have existed for centuries, or you allow groups that haven’t traditionally served to express their cultural identity within the army. You can’t say “Well it’s okay for Sikhs’ to have beards and tubrans, but if a Rastafarian signs on he has to cut his dreads.”

            So that’s why I was asking the question, less about elucidating the exact rules for where beards are allowed in the Army, but more trying to get AV to think about where his left and right of arcs are, and what the implications of them are.

          • Understand exactly what you mean👍…not as simple as this or that.
            We had a local crackpot who grew his hair long and became a Sikh. He used to ride his motorcycle round town with no helmet on. The Police couldn’t do a thing about it.
            Nothing in life is clear cut, and even simple rules are far more complex than people think.

          • Of course not, not my point. You could be 2 foot tall with a horn on your head for me if you’re good at what you do.
            It’s this progressive woke agenda I take issue with.

      • Are the majority not cadets? Hard to see detail but rank slides look like they have the red lettering “Cadet” that they use.

    • So far I think the only thing the UK has committed to is increasing its deployment in Estonia from 1,000 to 3,000.

      • That’s not a Bde with a tail and I hope the Challies are amphibious for crossing the Baltic! Stalwarts anyone?

        The Andrew are going to be pissed if it all goes tits up and they need to send ships into the Baltic Lake…

        However, I expect the RAF will enjoy the smorgasbord of Swedish hospitality! 🙂

    • When a kid at school we did Ali Baba and his 40 thieves ( look it was the 60s lol) and being a little short on extras we had 10 ‘thieves’ running around the back of and through the stage 4 times. I think Boris is doing something similar with his promises as usual.

      • ‘… a little short on extras we had 10 ‘thieves’ running around the back of and through the stage 4 times.‘

        I’m not going to be able to get that image out of my mind! Thanks!

  8. 300000 properly trained, properly equiped, properly fed, properly motivated troups. Quite a force indeed if my summation above is correct.

    • I think there is a perception that this is to be 300,000 ground troops. It is the personnel numbers across SF, cyber, maritime, land and air domains.

        • True enough Dern, but given the poor readiness of many of NATO’s forces until recently that step up iw significant and will cost quite a bit of extra dosh to achieve – assuming that other units aren’t asset stripped…

          Either way, politically it is quite the awaking. Ben Wallace is to ask, publically,, for more money for defence having written to Sunak and Boris and apparently getting no where.

          Go Ben.

          Cheers CR

          • Oh I agree, significant step up, but a lot of people are misunderstanding what is happening.

          • Ben will be told he has already and recently had extra money and that when the economy was flatlining. He has little chance of getting much more unless Putin’s invasion fleet was heading for the shores of England.

    • Thinking clearly isn’t your strong point; don’t strain yourself, just put your feet up, have a nice glass of vodka and let Herr Putin do all your thinking for you.

    • Well that does seem to be the way with war these days, though hostages for a fortune is probably more apt.

    • Engaging with you is pointless….maybe we should just flag up every comment you post as ‘Harold’…and then we can move onto proper discussion in your absence.

  9. Is it me or does 300k seem a crazy number pulled out of the air.

    Alright I can see the UK being able to contribute about the same as always and it will be pretty good. France no change. Germany up quite a bit once they have fixed their kit etc and the addition of the Nordics does effortlessly add mass anyway.

    But 300k? That is a lot: an awful lot.

    Do you really need 300k at that high level of readiness. Is is sustainable? Is it doable? I mean without massive budgets to prize people away from other jobs.

    Yes, you do need the mentions and war stocks to support 300k in theatre for a long period of time so that is a given but 300k to go at the drop of a hat.

    Really what would it have taken to stop Mad Vlad

    100k and air power?

    With 300k, yes you have overwhelming numbers and technology to match and there is a sense that NATO has realised that, yes, AirPower can smash all of Mad Vlad tanks, APC and theatre AAW in a few days but then we still have to deal with a lot of nasty orcs who won’t follow the rules of war.

    OK so, Oh dear Doris, where is the spending uplift to pay for 4x more activity and lots of war stocks?

    Ummmmmmm

    • The two options they were considering were 250,000 rapid response or 150,000 permanently deployed in Europe, they have gone for the rapid response option but increased it by another 50,000. Diplomatic relations with Russia have also been downgraded from Partner to Adversary.

      The choice of rapid response over permanent deployment reflects the increasing threat from the Pacific as well.

      • How are these “rapid response” forces getting to the battlefield? Assemble at the closest airport and wait for a US/UK/Canadian C-17 to come pick them up?

        These countries (GERMANY, SPAIN, ITALY) need to invest in full spectrum logistics support. Not just the sexy stuff they can put on display at the local airshow,

        • Return to Cold War Pre-positioned equipment was announced and then soldiers just flown over to be mated up.

    • This is not 300,000 soldiers. It is 300,000 military personnel across all domains (SF, maritime, land, air, cyber).

      • It sounds like there going to be a lot of air defence units involved, so I expect they are included in that number

    • I think the problem is one thing Mad Max does have (or did) is massive stocks of armaments to drag out of storage. Yes mostly absolute rubbish but when you have little regard for your troops as they are dragged from various parts of the distant Empire to be used as cannon fodder, that the elite in Moscow and many in European Russia generally care little about, you can still win by having something left to use when your enemy has used up all its elite weapons and forces. At least that seems to be their logic especially as Europe demilitarised over the last 20+ years as the Russians stuck their junk in warehouses for their planned day of ‘vengeance’.

      I suppose by the way Turkey could supply that number of troops to NATO almost alone, I just don’t think anyone knows whose side they would be on. 😈

    • “Really what would it have taken to stop Mad Vlad?”

      Declaring that if he invaded Ukraine(again) we would engage his forces within Ukraine. Not saying, ‘please don’t, but we won’t intervene if you do!!!!!’ in effect.

  10. Under 2020 refine we are cutting to 2 armoured Bdes. Now we are reinforcing the UK Estonia BG to Bde which means we will not be able to rotate Bdes through Estonia less still to reinforce it. We MUST therefore go back to a 3 Bde structure. Actually a whole new armoured division would be sensible so that one div can rotate through Estonia and a second division is available to reinforce.

    • 2 Armoured Brigades, 1 Light Mechanized Brigade, 1 Air Assault Brigade Rob.

      Plus a DAG, in effect a brigade sized formation but devoid of its own CS CSS.

      Plus other brigade sized formations also lacking.

      Also due to the way they are organising the army much of its strength is in Field Troops, not brigades.

      With a redesigned ORBAT and some changes to the Boxer order allocating more as infantry carriers as well as a renewed emphasis on CS CSS ( if only ) we could improve the structure.

      Til then, it’s a bit of a mess.

      Where is it said the Estonian deployment will be at brigade size?

        • Single nationality or multi national brigades?

          If multi this already exists in things like the ARRC at Innsworth.

          • Breaking. Tom Newton Dunn (journalist) understands that Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to request a minimum defence spend of 2.5% of GDP to deliver current operations and replace legacy equipment that the Ukraine war has now made obsolete.

          • I not so sure, a Chally 2 would have fun faced with a squadron of T62s which the Russians are now fielding.

          • A C2 would cut to pieces everything the Russian military would care to put in front of it.
            They all seem to have glass jaws (russian tanks) whereas the C2 is combat proven and known to be a tough and resilient tank. Outstanding armour.

          • Exactly my point, the only difficulty the Chally would have is deciding which Russian tank to take part with its next shell. It would notch up a record number of kills.

          • CVR(T) and FV432 are 50 and 60 years old respectively so they were obsolete ages ago, anyway. AS90 and Light Gun are not spring chickens either so should have been replaced a very long time ago too, irrespective of the Ukraine war.

            Challenger 2 and Warrior should both have received upgrades throughout their service life but didn’t (except for the very minor).

            I think that we would have tactically handled our aged fleet very much better than the Russians and had better engineering support and logistics and operated with air superiority – I doubt we would have suffered such attrition.

          • I think it’s time to ask once again, another troll (avatar) are you going to condemn the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Putin and the Nazi Russian army, and want an end to this war by Russia pulling back to its pre 2014 borders and start lines. Johnskie won’t condemn it, but as you are all one and the same, I don’t expect you to either.

          • The ARRC is of course a NATO Corps (evolved from 1 (BR) Corps) and certain countries assign a national division to it. I am not aware of any multi-national brigades within those national divisions.

          • Indeed, I was thinking of the HQ formation which is indeed multi national but which the UK provides “framework nation” for with 1 Signal Brigade as part of the HQ element.

          • Single nationality with the UK manning Estonia- the most tricky Baltic state really as its further away from UK- although nice and close to our new allies Finland and Sweden so air umbrella can provide overflight and air superiority flying out of Sweden, Northern Norway and Finland

      • Think from what i saw last week.. The UK could add an extra battle group to the two already there in Estonia. I guess adding the other NATO units that are attached to the British forces – would amount to a brigade size force. Also mentioned a Brigadier being based in Estonia (HQ) Some of the UK units would be based back here, deployed when or if needed to Estonia.

        • Indeed mate, thus the comment
          “Plus other brigade sized formations also lacking.”

          Rob mentioned Armoured Divisions so I was concentrating more on the fully supported Field Army elements we have, the main brigade formations.

          4 Light could be one if it had any regular CS/CSS in its ORBAT. I don’t think it could take part in any theoretical roulement operation if one appeared.

          That BCT is the greatest disappointment for me in FS as, if it had a proper ORBAT of say 4 manoeuvre units in its Infantry Bns, the attendant RAC Light Cav Reg on Jackal, and its own regular artillery, engineers and the rest we would have a 5 brigade structure with a mix of heavy, medium, light capabilities that they were aspiring to way back in the day.

          They could find the manpower for that by reducing some Infantry Battalions. But we’ve done that to death here already and they’ve already downsized several for SFAB.

          Oh, and the S Ops Bde! That’s gone quiet lately??

    • To roule a brigade, you need an Orbat of 5 brigades – and that is just for Estonia. We have troops elsewhere too.

        • They do things differently of course.
          Our Formation Readiness Cycle,(later called FORM), which covered the brigades of 1st and 3rd divisions had a 3 year cycle but that was for role changes relating to training state – so was a different thing.
          If our troops are in Estonia and Poland for many years a roulement of 6 months should be considered – and that requires a force of 5 times the deployed force to ensure tour intervals are within Harmony guidelines.
          Daniele suggests an alternative idea; if that were adopted troops would have to be trickle posted over time from UK which is not something the teeth arms are used to.

      • Maybe not a roulement but a new BAOR type set up with a brigade permanently garrisoned.

        Just as they spent a small fortune on the super garrison around SPTA!

        • An interesting thought. A brigade permanently garrisoned in Estonia (or Poland) on BAOR/BFG lines (as an alternative to roulement of troops) would require: high quality permanent barracks (including vehicle garaging (possibly CHE) & washdowns, SLA, messes, and indoor/outdoor sports facilities, huge car park for civvy cars and caravans), nearby vast training areas and ranges, married quarters, forces schools, education centre, indoor training facilities including simulators, med centre, dental centre, (access to) hospital for servicemen and families, NAAFI shop, cinema, depots for ammunition and pool stores. Our grateful government would have to pay for all this, plus airtrooping flights and Local Overseas Allowance for all personnel plus to provide a NSE (National Support Element). I think there would have to be an expectation of at least 10 years occupancy to justify the outlay. I doubt it would be a popular posting (2 years for officers, 3 years for ORs)!

          Super Garrisons (SGs) have been a concept in the UK for 15 or so years and there are several in place – I was COS of the Colchester SG (which also encompassed Wattisham Flying Station and Woodbridge). Catterick was a SG and I suppose Aldershot is. The army has about 13 or 14 garrisons in the UK but I am not sure how many are transitioning to SGs,

          I don’t see that we either have a long-stay brigade in eastern Europe or a SG around SPTA, and not both. The latter will not become redundant as a consequence of the former; there would still be plenty of UK-based troops who would benefit from proximity to our largest UK training area.

          • Well explained, so a considerable outlay and likely a non starter.

            Yes I can only think of Aldershot, Catterick, Colchester, and of course the SPTA one at Tidworth, Bulford, Warminster as becoming SGs. I don’t think Upavon is part of it.

          • Could Estonia not pay the cost of our servicemen and women needing infrastructure to be permanently based there? After all they are there to defend Estonia and are there on their request. So Estonia with respect cough up the required £s to support the troops you’ve asked for.

          • Interesting. In all the years of BAOR, then BFG, we paid the German Government a small fortune to lease the Hitler-era barracks our troops used.

          • Well, the Baltics are a super place to live and they provide great training opportunities. I lived in Latvia for 8 years.

            However, I do take your point on the ancilliary costs of a Bde being stationed there.

    • If it is indeed the case that we are to deploy an armoured brigade to Estonia (plus the troops in Poland?), and they are there for many years – then we would have to consider rouling the troops every 6 months as for any op tour. We would need a force of 5 armoured brigades to do that to ensure tour intervals are within harmony guide lines – and we don’t have 5 armoured brigades.
      Daniele suggests a permanently deployed brigade in Estonia (if that is what the politicians demand) – but the soldiers would be in an operational posture and would need to be relieved after 6 months so trickle posting would be required – not done that before for teeth arms.

      • This is where the original 2010 plan would have been useful. 5 multi role brigades keeping to the rule of 5, each with a mix of Light Medium Heavy formations.

        Until 2015 and Strike the CS/CSS regular units kept to the rule of 5, we had 5 or more of each to support an ongoing deployment. And there were 5 brigades, the 3 Armoured and 2 more Infantry Bdes in 1 UK Div with the required CS/CSS, even if some of them were hybrid requiring AR elements ( RE and RA Regs )

        All thrown away on the altar of Strike.

    • Interesting question, logically a ground launched ASRAM should be able to if it is within range so presumably they will be used as point defence. The problem is the spread out geography of Ukraine and the sneaky routing capabilities of cruise missiles once the risky locations are identified.

    • Must admit they are new to me a bit out of left field that I thought was because they didn’t want to risk their own tech falling into the wrong hands, though as apparently they use them to protect Washington ( if the info I read is correct) they must have some faith in them and they have a decent range but as MK says below a big area and terrain to cover in Ukraine. I guess they will be for 3 or 4 major targets like the capital, Odessa etc. be interesting to see how well they work.

      • The system sounds a bit like Sky Sabre; networked and distributed. The Amraam missiles have longer range than CAMM but a lot of the effectiveness of the system will depend on the radars and networking software. Camm is the Sea Cepter missile and was designed to take out cruise missile flying low over the sea. No idea about how good the Amraam seeker would be for a low flying cruise missile over land.

          • Not sure how many we actually have so far, I’ve only seen a single unit in photos but assume must be more than 1 delivered.

          • Maybe Raytheon/US also want to test it in a live war situation? This is a JV with Kongsberg Norway and I believe Australia is getting this system too. It seems like some chances for promoting CAMM/Sky Sabre are being missed by the UK or, it’s just strong competition or easier US supply options from NASAMS or, maybe the UK doesn’t want to take on any risk with deployment in Ukraine?

          • In essence the Sky Sabre should be better at dealing with cruise missiles. I base this on the fact that the Saab Giraffe radar it uses, is extended some 30m above ground level. Thereby giving it a better radar horizon, so it should detect low flying object a lot sooner. The only downside is that the AMRAAM-ER that NASAMs uses has a significant range advantage over CAMM, probably CAMM-ER as well.

            If the UK were serious about not just local air defence but area defence, it should not only look at using Meteor as a ground launched interceptor, that incorporates a similar rocket booster. But also upgrade the Saab Giraffe to the newer Saab 4A AESA radar.

    • Yes, its very good. During a NATO exercise involving Norway and the USMC. The USMC launched a number of waves of F18s from a carrier. Their task was to hunt down SAMS. Over a couple of days which involved 18 aircraft, not one was able to locate a NASAMs site. Yet the Norwegian NASAMs managed to lock onto all 18 F18s.

      NASAMs is a modular networked system. There can be up to eight launchers networked to a control station via secure datalink. It can also be networked to at least 4 radars. But it is usually two, one a medium range radar and the other being a low level short range radar. It also has a passive visible and IR turret for checking on threats and being used passively to lock on to threats. The Norwegian system can handle I believe 72 missiles in flight.

      The later Block 3 version uses AMRAAM-ER. They have mounted the rocket booster from the ESSM. which gives a better range. The standard launcher contains 6 AMRAAMS, but they can also hold cannister launched Sidewinder AIM-9Xs. Both AMRAAM and Sidewinder can lock onto cruise missiles. The Norwegian system can also be integrated with IRIS-T SL system.

    • Yes, it shouldn’t be happening. And the army is currently around 75,000, not 82,000.

      So there is no 10k cut in actual personnel, the 82k is establishment strength and the army is way below that.

    • If Phil (Spreadsheet) Hammond as Chancellor (but a former SofS) had his way the army would have been set at 50,000 some several years ago. Some of these politicians are quite insane.

    • Doubt it. Budget is going to increase now the conflict is dragging on. Summer recess in parliament so expect some ad hoc meetings/announcements about more kit to be sent. Anything that has been supplied by the U.K. already, the replacements have been costed and money is being made available to replace. Most of the extra funding has been kept quite due to cost of living crisis etc, 3billion already given from treasury and increasing all the time.
      That’s pounds not rubbles

    • Not at all, your Nazi leader Putin is and has ensured the opposite effect, showing the danger of appeasement to deranged shit lickers like Putin and giving voice and cause for big increases of investment, funding and planning. Cheers to your Nazi boss, and tell him you condemn his illegal invasion of Ukraine at the same time!

    • Hows the Black Sea reef making going?

      Please let us know if you do or do not think Russia’s attack on Ukraine is justified. (Waits with bated breath …)

    • The budget for the RN is set for the remaining 3 years of last settlement in 2020.
      Cobbers as usual from you again!

  14. The essence of propaganda is comprised of 1)Deception2.)Scaremongering.3)Spin.This is scaremongering for the gullible.The real question which will occupy minds is will the US risk its nuclear destruction to defend Romania,Latvia,Italy or even Germany .Henry Kissinger said HE would never have done it when in office

    • Yaaaaaawn, so Mr Moore, would you like to condemn Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine and see Russian forces pulled back, immediately to pre 2014 borders?

    • Which is why the UK & France having nuclear weapons is essential to deterrence because the Russians need to think about what we might do too. It adds another headache for the Kremlin.

      • The purpose of Britains deterrent is so as to not to leave the European continent(especially Germany) under French force majeur.it is nothing to do with deterring Russia.That is such for the masses who have no concept of the realities of international relations

        • The purpose of you is to continue to behave while your out on licence as its rare for nonces to get the opportunity.

    • I can’t believe a word of what you say ever again!

      No ex non-com officer, as you said you were in the past, would ever have opinions of this nature.
      Unless you were discharge from the Army as mentally unfit.

      • Well we’ve established he’s mentally unfit.

        As for him ever having served, he clearly a fantasist on that point.

    • Big question that isn’t it, esp as it involves how many of their citizens in forces and civilians in the target areas involved would they allow to die in that circumstance too without reacting. No easy answer.

    • Who is talking about US nuclear weapons release – and why? It has only been Putin who has hinted at Russian use of nuclear weapons.

    • Yes. That’s what allies do. Europe and America are not scared of Russian nukes. If Russia launches MAD kicks in and it’s bye bye everyone. If Europe gets hit Americans die due to being based here
      When was Kissinger the president of America? And you are miss quoting him by the way.

      • Kissinger was Secretary of State.MAD is an obselete idea from the 60s.You think America is golng to take 300 million dead for Europe or a handful of troops.Kissinger already told you the answer to that

    • Do you support the invasion of Ukraine by Russia that Putin assured everyone would not happen? Yes or no?

      • President Putin never assured anyone about anything.Do you think any commander is going to inform a rival of his plans one way or another.Y That would have no parallel in history.You watch to much TV

        • “President Putin” shit you can tell your troll comments are logged and monitored as you are shit scared to say the wrong thing. Putin is a sick, deluded K fiddler and needs to die and be churned up into shit sausages and lobbed in the sea so fish can eat him and shit him out once again.

    • Bollocks. America has lives invested in Latvia – I’ve met them. Russia kills Americans and God will rain nucs on Mother Russia and deliver the damnation she deserves and wipe the scum of the face of the earth.

      • Steady on old chap, thats a bit gung-ho, what?

        Talk like that might provoke the war criminal Putin to adopt a ‘launch on warning’ policy to pre-empt a first strike

        Once the Conservatives get rid of Johnsonski and Sunak, in the light of the unprovoked Russian war of agression against Ukraine we can have a look at defence expenditure again

        • And it needs looking at! On another someone had suggested was 2.5 or 3% and outlined the thinking behind it.

    • Well as a propagandist you’d know. Presumably you studied under Joseph Goebbels?

      The USA doesn’t need to worry about nuclear destruction. NATO can wipe out every single rapist Russian orc that steps into NATO territory with conventional forces alone.

  15. Imagine they had done that before the war started and deployed a chunk of it into Ukraine on a training mission, the war wouldnt have happened.

  17. This is dramatic news. Will all member nations sign up to this commitment?
    It surely must mean all nations will have to spend at least 3% of GDP.

  19. Reported NATO will increase its proportion of air defence batteries and the batteries will be pre-assigned defensive positions deployments with operators learning the local geography and getting to know the local hosts troops so when deployed they can already account for the impact on radar of the local terrain and know which spots offer the best radar sight lines/ defensive cover the moment they arrive.

    • You would think that by now that has been fully mapped. I would have thought ideal spots would have been identified during the cold war, although admittedly expansion of cities etc in the last 30 years will have changed things a little.

      • Hi Steve,

        The kind of software you need has been around for decades. Cruise missiles need very detailed and up to date maps, for example. Taking that level of ground truth detail and applying line of site calculations would give you what you need to site Radars / SAM’s. Commercially available earth observation satellite data and mobile phone network companies do that kind of stuff all the time. I think there are specialists who supply that data – Ordinance Survey in the UK.?!

        The kind of experience Watcherzero refers to would be helpful if you were in a hurry to set up so that even a sub-optimal location was better than nothing. The human eye / brain can still be very effective when compared against computers especially with multiple rapidly changing variables. As we probably all know sometime a good enough job is actually more appropriate than trying to do a perfect job.

        Cheers CR

        • I assume you need boots on the ground though. Sat maps etc identify potential sites and then human needs to go there to assess things like ground firmness, defensive lines/ consealment issues etc.

          • Yes, because some muppet might have put a telephone line or power line in the wrong place, that is not marked on a map. It still sadly happens, especially in Norway of all places.

  20. By the sounds of things there will be an uplift in the defense budget announced this week. Will be interesting to see how much by and more importantly what it will be spent on. Logistics and stores seem like a sensible focus post Ukraine/Russia.

    • It isn’t 300,000 frontline soldiers, but everyone involved from the navy, army and air forces of NATO nations. If you are looking at frontline troops on the ground then our commitment couldn’t be more than 5,000 or so given the size of the army.

  22. Well in a diffrent thread I did mention the reconstruction of NORTHAG/2ATAF. Anyway, it looks to me that the UK will need to increase its defence budget to bring the RN up to 30 DDGs/FFGs, increase the RAF/FAA by 4+2 sqns of combat aircraft and increase the Army by one Division and possibly an extra 150MBTs. If we get the right T32 then I would say six of them bringing the surface combat fleet up to 25 DDGs/FFGs+3 LHDs and the money saved there spent on extra aircraft for the RAF/FAA.

    I would if I was the PM get the US to agree a defence pact with Finland and Sweden independently of the NATO agreement. The reason is time and Turkey. The EU has a defence agreement, I am not sure if they have an Article 5 concept in their agreement but I would think so. If that is the case then the UK and the US could sign an agreement with the EU that any attack on an EU nation would be and attack on the UK/US. Problem solved. The Turkey issue would be worked around.

    • Your last para is worthy and thank you for posting.

      This Govt moving to 2.5% when 3% should be our minimum is going to stretch the Govt.

      With your reasoning, all Challies should be upgraded, and rightly so.

      Disagree on the T32 – that is in the next decade but T31 could be built alongside each other, uparmed and added to the fleet.

      (Yes, yes, I know about needing more sailors).

      Any spare? Another Bn of PARA.

      Feck me, I’ve said it again.

      • Type 31 could easily morph into a fully capable heavy frigate with a medium gun, mk41 vls etc- just needs the £ spent. The beauty of type 31 i steel is cheap. get a large surface combatant into the water than add capability during its service life or as the strategic situation demands.

        • I hope they are improved, but, given their entry level cost another 5 would be desirable for this decade.

    • In my opinion, the Turkish posturing on Sweden and Finland has got far more to do with their desire to bring the F35 into service among other gripes….

      • I could never understand the US sanction on F-35 just because Turkey bought Russian AD. Surely that is a good thing – we can learn all about its technology and capability.

    • Ron, where do you get those numbers from? No way would politicians and Treasury agree to expand the 3 services by that much.

  23. Finally we’re waking up to the hostility of Russia & China. They’ve been attacking us for 20 years, cyber, propaganda, trying to overthrow free democracy, stealing our technology, for China our lemming like mercenary big buisenesmen & Tory dogma exported most of our manufacturing to them so we fund their next world war. Both have colonial ambitions.
    This peace dividend really paid off!!??? And we still approach the lowest escort numbers for centuries. Our conventional weakness has empowered the audacity of Russia, China & all our other enemies.

    I think our army should never have dropped below 120.000 & nations such as UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Poland should be contributing c100,000 each to Nato high alert forces. No more idiotic capability gaps.

  24. Can anyone imagine a scenario where a conventional war between Russia and Nato would not almost inevitably develop into a Nuclear holocaust?

    • If only…

      I couldn’t help but smile at your optimism. A ray of sun shine in a gloomy world.

      Cheers CR

      • Ukraine has lost 20% of its land. I cannot see Russia getting much more, unless the Western support collapses.

    • “They push back using tactical Nuclear Weapons.”

      In no universe does that not result in the West using Nuclear Weapons.

        • Probably both, it’s hard to envisage a Tactical Nuke being set off anywhere in Europe that doesn’t cause heavy collateral damage.

          Just as an example, imagine if a Russian Tactical Nuke destroyed a column outside Frankfurt waiting to cross the Oder, and NATO forces respond by nuking a Russian depot outside Voronezh, what happens then? Do both sides say “Well you destroyed one of our medium sized cities and we destroyed one of yours so lets call it quits?” I don’t see it happening.

          Tactical or Strategic, Nuclear weapons are indiscriminate enough that their use will lead to an escalating spiral that means saying good by to most major cities.

          *Edit* to add a wrinkle, if a Russian nuke falls outside an civilian target and simply causes heavy damage instead of complete incineration: Does the west assume that it was intended to miss the city, or does the west assume that Russian targeting is off? Remembering that the RuAF tried to bomb Snake Island last night and missed the entire island with 3 of the 4 bombs they dropped.

  25. The big question is China. Let’s not be under any illusion, China look’s after No1.

    It isn’t going to support a flagging Russia for nothing, it will require significant concessions from Russia as it would be very much the junior partner.

    On top of this, China won’t commit economic suicide, it’s trading with the West is economically very important, so it will weigh up it’s actions very carefully indeed and carry on walking the line between the two.

    • Yes, they need to sell to the West. Without the West their factories would produce products for whom there would be no buyers.
      The CCP has been trying to develop domestic consumer spending so as not to be so dependent on selling to the West but it’s still no where near large enough.
      Although we marvel at their vast modern cities over 40% of the population still lives in rural areas, which while a minority, is still very high compared to Western nations.

      • Which is an improvement from the average Russian peasant. “Cardboard box, damn I would kill for a cardboard box” your average Russian peasant would be an upgrade if issued a cardboard box.

    • True. China is shrewd and plays the long game…exceptionally well.
      She may overtake the USA in financial terms. She is building a more capable navy that could become ‘bluewater’ rather than regional very soon.
      Russia is a dead weight that China would not wish to be shackled to.

      • Absolutely Graham, Russia offers certain assets in the near term, Gas/ Oil etc, this trading asset will progressively disappear, as the world moves away from fossil fuels over the next 20 years. In fact this is already underway.

        The Gulf states will be only ones left in the (far smaller) fossil fuels business, as they can retrieve it and ship it world wide in the most efficient and profitable way.

        Take oil and gas away and Russia has absolutely sod all of substance to offer.

        So based on this alone, never mind the train wreck of Putin’s Ukrainians madness, the best reason for supporting Russia, from a Chinese perspective, is preventing the very real future possibility of a Russian Government collapse and an unthinkable civil war on top of the biggest nuclear weapons stockpile on the planet with their direct neighbour…

        Russia is a ticking time Bomb.
        .

        • John, I don’t believe that the largest country in the world is only good for oil and gas. From http://www.factsand details.com:
          “Russia is probably richer in natural resources than any other country in the world. It has abundant supplies of oil, natural gas, timber and valuable minerals, such as copper, diamonds, lead, zinc, bauxite, nickel, tin, mercury, gold and silver— most of which are located in Siberia and the Far East. The value of Russia’s resources is huge. The forests of Siberia contain an estimated one-fifth of the world’s timber, mainly conifers”. 

          Anyway, another point springs to mind. Might China manage to extract some benfit from a collapsing Russian Government? Perhaps to resolve any territorial disputes or to aid the installation of a genuine pro-China regime in Moscow, somehow?

  26. The Putin trolls on here are clearly thriving off the oxygen we give them with comments, arguments, etc. It is wasted energy and only fuels their work to be more disruptive and divisive when we can spend time on more positive feedback on articles that make a difference.

    Best way to deal with them is to ignore them, don’t comment on what they say, don’t give them a chance to put out their narrative. It’s difficult I know given the repugnant nature of what they say and stand for but take the moral high ground and let them wither in the dark!

  27. Yes but it’s not until around 2028 so conveniently 2 terms away. Promised about what will happen on someone else’s watch are easy.

    • I read it that he is asking for a gradual increase to 2.5%, not a sudden jump in 2028. You’d hope this makes it much more palatable to those calling the shots on budget. A 0.5% hike in one go isn’t likely on top of the increase announced last year, but 0.1% a year would add a few billion each time. It would at the very least prevent further cuts.

    • Not convenient at all, its a large amount of money that needs to be written into an already massively over stretched budget, cant just create it over night.

    • I think he is after some extra dosh now and that the 2.5% is a ‘slope’ rather than a step change. Nevertheless, any change in government would would see such a policy up for grabs.

      One day our dozy politicians will realise that we need a cross party approach to defence. Sadly, pigs will fly first…

      Ho, hum.

      Cheers CR

  28. And let’s hope they don’t waste any if it on stupid stuff that doesn’t work! A great opportunity to right things. And get a bloody move on! As my old UK maths teacher use to say to the class, “stop the silly buggers”!

  29. Russia could if not already be a great source of raw materials and energy for China, even lease some arable land for food supplies? In return China could supply all sorts of know-how, technology, hardware and share in JV developments. Not sure how subservient Putin/Russia would want to allow itself to be with China. Their political systems seem to be a bit different, oligarchic versus more party orientated, both autocratic though and probably in their own competition with each other too! Russia with the huge land mass, smaller population, China less land, huge population, more developed economy and integrated with the West.
    You got to wonder at the levels of disempowerment of the general Russian population to effect some real change for the betterment of the lives of the average person in their country with the current gang in charge. It must be very stifling and you’d need real courage to speak out, as some definitely do. First things first, Ukraine at this moment needs to be liberated!

    • China are already do this. There have been reports of vast swathes of Chinese moving across the northern and eastern borders to set up farms. The eastern part of Russia north of Vladivostok is very sparsely populated, yet it has pretty good land that hasn’t seen the plough in generations. I’m not sure what deal Russia and China struck for these scale population movements?

  31. In what scenario exactly would they crush Nato?

    If Nato tried to invade the Chinese mainland yes I would agree, in virtually every other front no not at all.

  32. I know I have a bit of a reputation for calling for a lean and mean army but I’ve just read that the remaining 80 or so Challies are going to be upgraded. If we are doing that, then for what is in financial terms peanuts, don’t we fully modernise all of them. Sorry I’m a bit late to the party!

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