The Type 23 Frigate remains alongside at Rosyth after an emergency drydocking following “a major leak” earlier in the year and a recent “major failure” of her systems, with her becoming a “dead ship” for a short time.
*UPDATE – HMS SOMERSET SAILED TONIGHT – 22/08/2022*
Despite a £20mn major upgrade in 2018 and a return to service in March 2022, HMS Somerset is currently experiencing severe issues, according to a contact that spoke to me on the condition of anonymity.
For the sake of clarity, I should add that the upgrade was supposed to extend the life of the frigate. The Royal Navy say here that after “more than one million hours of work by skilled engineers, technicians and shipwrights” the warship left Plymouth in March as the latest ship in her 12-strong class to complete a massive overhaul – known as LIFEX (life extension).
She has undergone maintenance, received updates and structural improvements to her hull and living spaces, and enhanced sensors and weapon systems led by the latest Sea Ceptor air defence missile system, replacing the obsolete Sea Wolf. Additional upgrades to key electronic equipment, including communications, navigation and computer systems have been undertaken, ensuring the ship can operate against the latest threats “well into the next decade”.
Additionally, diesel generators were replaced, and the remainder of the propulsion system received an enhanced clean.
I was told that the vessel had to go to Rosyth as she was unable to go elsewhere.
“HMS Somerset went to dry dock in Rosyth in Scotland on the 20th June (despite being based at the other end of the country) to get essential repairs made. From what I have been told, her rudder had a major leak, and she needed emergency dry docking, but rather than returning to HMS Drake, where the crew would have had to stay, the ship came to Scotland so they could get accommodation ashore as Drake was not able to accommodate the crew.”
My contact told me that the ship also underwent a complete failure.
“Somerset spent 58 days docked down getting the rudder repaired and sealed. However, Somerset was due to go from Rosyth to RNAD Crombie a couple of miles upriver from Rosyth to be armed and then continue on her trials. On arrival the tugs, started to move the ship, when the ship had a complete failure and ended up becoming a dead ship, she narrowly avoided hitting the Jetty at Rosyth.
The tugs were able to assist and indeed the ship was towed upriver to Crombie where she was tied up. The ship has since sat there for the past three days – she was due to sail at three different times but due to various technical issues the ship has been unable to sail and remains alongside with no confirmed sailing date.”
The vessel, I’m told, still has no confirmed sailing date.
“It is also known that there are no senior officers onboard the ship as they are all on annual summer leave and that some were due back this week, but they thought they were re-joining the ship in Plymouth, however as the ship is still alongside, there is not enough crew to sail the ship.
There are rumours that the ships refit was not done properly, and corners were cut in order to get the ship back to sea, as the refitting complex was needed to get more type 23 frigates in for their upgrade. From what I understand HMS Somerset is set to be towed back to Rosyth this week so that her repairs can be rectified.”
More on this as it develops.
Run them ragged for 20-30yrs by getting 13 hulls to do the workload of the needed 20+ and this will be the inevitable result.
I bet she won’t be the only Type 23 to end up in a similar pitiful situation over the next decade, as their EOL approaches.
We originally hadc16 hulls. However, Mr Blair’s penchant for fighting wars on a peacetime defence budget meant that we sold 3 of them 15 years ago to cut costs
There is that and it is 100% true.
As well as the T23 taking on all of the T22 tasking and being run well beyond their design life.
It doesn’t matter that we had 16. They’re all well pay when they should have been replaced.
I understand the want to extend Type 26 construction, but it really needs to be sped up. The workforce can then get on with the Type 45 replacement.
As for the random Blair thing… we don’t know what the Conservatives would have done, but one might doubt that we’d even have any aircraft carriers now if they had been in power.
Not very random really, he wasted billions of pounds and countless lives being led down the garden path by the US at the time.
Maybes if Labour had not completely mismanaged the finances during the 2008 crisis we would be a in very different position to what we are now, no one knows. Heck if Corbyn had taken power the aircraft carriers might well be parked up in St Petersburg flying a different flag.
Criticism of going into Iraq, fine; but how were the finances mismanaged during the financial crisis? The government did what it needed to prevent the banking system (and thereby the rest of the economy) from collapsing. The UK was far from alone in taking on substantial additional debt to do this. The real problem is the Conservatives reducing spending in an economic downturn, resulting in the stagnation and lack of rise in living standards we’ve seen since 2010 – unlike our competitors.
A leak?
Maybe someone forgot to put the plug back in??
To be fair, if the refit had been completed successfully, whoever carried it out would have received nothing but praise. Unfortunately however, with comments made by the protected source such as ‘corners cut’, you cannot help but ask what… on earth has happened here, to cause such catastrophic failures.
Review, review and more reviews will no doubt occur, revealing little, and costing the MOD loads of money. Have the Royal Navy not got their own engineering and maintenance engineers any more, or is it all ‘subbed out’?
Yeah, these things are usually made with care. All T crossed.
Something that governments worldwide are starting to realise (but do nothing about), is that in their rush to contract out everything to the ‘more efficient private sector’, they no longer have the capability to manage their own contracts. They now need private contractors to manage their own contracts. If contractor A puts forward option A & contractor B put forwards option B, but you no longer have the ability to differentiate what they are talking about, you end up employing company C to advise you (at even greater cost) & you don’t have anyone who can tell you if C is telling you porkies.
Bean counters often make really stupid assumptions & assume they are saving millions. Truth is the exact opposite. We will contract out all the military radio repairs because private industry can do it for half the cost. True. Except the military still trains all their radio technicians to go to board level repairs because private contractors don’t work in war zones or 24×7 if required. So the military pays for a whole host of people who could do the job for free (because the military is already paying them regardless). But that is not how the bean counters count things. So they still pay for the military techs (under the training budget) & the private techs as well (via contract). So look how much money we are saving in radio repairs – wonder why the training costs are so high. Not our department – can I have knighthood now please.
Well said that man. I couldn’t agree more! The whole notion of sub-contracting is grievously flawed, and most often a fallacy.
In the late 1980’s, I worked as a toolmaker at Lucas Industries. Some ‘goon’ came up with the notion, that it was cheaper to sub out worked carried out in the toolroom, to small local firms. At the time I was on around £7 an hour.
They closed the toolroom, and made us redundant. Four months later, I was working for a small engineering firm, and ended up producing item for Lucas, who made 8 of us redundant. My new employer was charging Lucas Industries £67.00 an hour for my labour. 😐
This isn’t about sub-contracting Tom. It is about contracting work to a civilian company, work that is beyond the resources of RN engineering personnel.
Is the RN able to repair a ship at sea without assistance if needs be?
Depends what the work is.
Sometimes you need contractor assistance because it involves specialist skills or equipment so you go alongside to get it.
You can keep stuff working at sea by being creative but the chances of it staying working or running at 100% are reduced. You may also need to put limitations on performance.
Funny though most yards who rely on purely commercial work do it what appears to be a higher standard. I seriously doubt a government owned yard would perform any better and probably be on strike as we speak.
The thing is Tom that Lucas were probably charging £300 an hour for your services. I’m guessing that Lucus were looking to sell or merge at the time and the company will look more efficient especially to the Americans if they have less staff.The smart move would have been for you to set up your own SME charging £150. Sometimes you need to go with the flow.
They do save millions, from a particular budget.
Give them some credit.
I was chatting with a guy who is a diver (ex RN) and is contracted to do work for the navy. According to him most of these sailor’s don’t know one end of a screw driver from another. He gets called out for routine work that back in the day was done by the ships crew.
Are you talking about ABs or RN engineering technicians? I would be very concerned if you were talking about the latter!
I did know a few of the latter Graham ,Could tell you the Square root of a Jar of Pickled Ouions buy didn’t have a clue how too get the lid off sorry too say
Hi Tommo
I’ve worked with some of them, came in with qualifications but didn’t have a clue about the job….Ian
Snap Ian Classroom work top notch practical application start again Right is tight left unwind more crossed threads than the Bayeux tapestry
Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story eh 😄
The ship had a massive overhaul (1 million hrs of work costing £20m) in 2018-March 2022, known as a LIFEX – that is a job for Industry (Babcock International, I believe).
Of course the RN have engineers and technicians but they would not do a LIFEX. Similarly problems arising a few months later from a poorly executed LIFEX would be dealt with by the same defaulting company, not RN engineering staff.
The same is true for army equipment.
I did not mention a lifex! It goes without saying that a navy yard could only undertake such work. So, a ship at sea in… the middle of the pacific. Could a ships crew undertake something as serious as prop shaft, or rudder problems?
Depends on the snag. If a stern or stock seal goes you can pack it out and stop the leak. You will lose the use of the shaft.or rudder.
To fix it you need specialist diver assistance , possibly a coffer dam, hab or a dry dock. Heavy duty slinging , machining .
You can change the emergency inflatable stern seal afloat but again diver assistance is required along with all the safety requirements of using divers. Surface air supply, dive boat, medical, tag out ship systems (cathodic, suction intakes and discharges)
Had a off centre shaft bearing just after Granby in 91 caused by so many detonation of Mines over a period of clearing lanes of Kuwait that we had too come out the water in Dubai for repairs FMG mobile all accomadated on one of the RFA Sir class bloody pain didn’t get it fully repaired until returned to Vospers
Whenever we’d have a shake down after DandD there would always be Docky Staff on board too ensure work carried out was fit for purpose Graham
Money, lack of resources and the fact that Babcock and BAE have the monopoly on the various classes of Ships so there is no holding them to account. This isn’t a new thing this has been going on for a long time.
The subbing out of work is based on category of maintenance dictated by the maintenance management systems. Most work is still done by RN Engineers but with Operation commitments these days, time alongside is limited so if you can get jobs done by the shoreside contractors to enable a bit of down time you do.
Wonder if it would be quicker/cheaper to buy and fit out the USS Boone? then use Somerset for SINKEX?
😜😜😂
Old ships…
Was this source wearing a Light blue uniform and trying to deflect from the RAFs woes?
So the rudder stock seal let go. It happens. It’s not a quick fix. Drop the rudder, possibly build up and machine the stock then also the same to the rudder bearing housing.
As for the P/TLF they also happen. Moving under tugs she would be on 1 maybe 2 DGs with a standby. If one went off it will go dark until the standby comes online.
However I will call BS on no senior officers.
The CO, XO,WEO, LO, Navs and MEO are all going to be onboard for a cold move and Ammo ship.
Whilst not great news, these things do happen after all, we have to be thankful that the ship was about to go on further trials and wasn’t out on operations.
What it does highlight is the challenges of keeping older ships in service for longer than planned because of poor investment decisions made in the 2002-16 period. We only have to watch the Channel 5 Warship at Sea documentary to witness how fragile these platforms are becoming, no amount of rework can fix being run a lot longer than they were designed for.
What will be interesting to see now is the RN response (Press Office) and how quickly the ship can be repaired and set sail.
On a lot of ships I end up arranging new sea water pipework fixes. CuNi pipe errodes out after say 5-10years dependent on the turbulent flow inside. Galv Steel pipe is the same. Unless you conduct a Ultra sonic survey of every inch of pipe length and circumference then pipes will burst.
It’s the same for electrical systems, sea valves, seals etc. Sometimes catastrophic failures happen and no amount of maintenance or survey work will find or stop it.
Just as well or I wouldn’t be doing ship repair as my job.
That said on a class of ships things tend to wear in similar places if builds were consistent so preventative pipe replacements are possible?
Rabbit runs were order of the day Gunbuster quickfix on the spot that seemed too do the job ,without the paperwork sometimes if it’s not in the BRs it should be
Its worse in the army. It is now almost unknown for a complex AFV to receive a major upgrade every 7-10 years or so.
Or even a Base overhaul a la 23 Base at Wetter!
I remember visiting 23 Base Wksp REME as a REME YO, probably in 1975. It fell victim to Options for Change and closed in 1993. Sounds like you know it carried out Base level repairs, including Base Overhauls (BOH) every 7-10 years on BAOR/BFG’s ‘A’ Vehicles.
BOH now has a new name, BIR (Base Inspection & Repair) and should still be done. Base Workshops REME (and Command/Station workshops) were placed under the ABRO banner then the whole lot was contracted out to Babcocks. No idea if BIR is still done by Babcocks on that sort of periodicity.
Major upgrades were done at the time of BOH/BIR, excepting if it could only be done by the OEM.
Hi Graham, yes, I visited Wetter in the early 80’s. Chally’s in cradles being dunked and cleaned, armour being stripped and then guarded by Germans ( always cracked me up that one). I don’t believe Babcock undertake BIR, but happy to be corrected. Thanks for the detailed reply.👍
Thanks Ian. If Babcocks don’t do BIR (a lot cheaper than BOH and almost as good) then it is not done at all – and that is very worrying.
It’s unknown for then to get an upgrade full stop!
Sorry a load of the comments seemed to have vanished. The contractor I was chatting too didn’t point the finger at a particular group, rather he was saying he got called out for what he called general maintenance. Fixing door hinges on a Type 45 for example.
Contractors fixing door hinges! I am amazed. Assuming this is as trivial a job as it sounds it should be done by uniformed RN technician engineers, not expensive contractors.
Hmmm…apparently suffering from some random, unfortunate maintenance issues, however, upon reflection, wonder whether RN will revisit the deliberate pace of completion of PGMU mod?
The ‘source’ does whiff a bit of rumour and sour grapes.
I think it was delivered on the sour grape vine.
🤣👍
Totally agree it is not the first rudder or shaft seal to let go in RN history.
There can be many good reasons for a failure such as the rudder snagging something large and the whole assembly getting bent to the point of welds failing.
I don’t understand why it is being made out as such a big deal for a ship to go dark with tugs in attendance. As long as the ship -> tug and ship -> shore comms were go then the risks were tiny that anything much was going to happen.
I don’t believe that FOST would pass anything suspect either. So I smell and over egged story here.
I had the same thought as you – has the ring of a Daily Mail story about it. so the rudder stock seal went or the sleeve on the stock was not sweated on right and came loose and dislodged the seal ring – no drama llama really – I have a feeling the stock seal is manufactured by the same outfit that supplied the DG – so spares will be a while as they don’t carry the stock in the UK anymore – hence the hanging around like a Stonehouse tom – Hey Ho.
Thank you GB, a dose of reality and yet again more knowledge! Shit happens, things go wrong when they shouldn’t, it’s called life! Certainly complex platforms, mo matter what update it has had, can go wrong! It’s how it’s dealt with is the issue!
The voice of reason as always. 👍, shame few understand the realities of these things.
Point of Order! Shoe laces may be ‘tied up’, Royal Navy ships on the other hand are ‘secured”.
Sounds like the RN is as bady effed up as my beloved army, So sad.
So long as the navy have sufficient capacity they should be able to cover the temporary loss of a few units. That’s generally what happens in conflicts and war. Unfortunately our betters have decided we should have lots of single points of failure. And it’s not a navy-only problem.
Given current escort numbers(15-17?) the days of “sufficient capacity” are long gone & it will be years before we even begin to reverse the rot.
No senior officers onboard? Sounds like the ship will be looking for a new Captain. lol
No senior officers on board?? Yeah ok sure
The MOD are excellent at wasting tax payers money so £20M is a mere drop in the ocean. Cut your losses, save all the equipment that can be transfered for future use and you can add her to the Sinkex program as the RN acquires (eventually) an interim anti ship missile. Most of the type 23s have been described as partly obcellecent anyway, by our very own vice admiral Gardner I think it was. So what’s the point in keeping her. Another £20M and she’ll be on the scrap heap in 5 years.
Lots of point in that she is 1000% better materiel condition than the Russian subs it is her job to hunt.
When Gardner said that she was partly obsolescent he was more referring to machinery, pumps and other systems and subsystems. Weapons and sonar are 100% up to date.
She is one of the 8 T23s that have the towed array ASW sonar, our best ASW capable escorts & upgraded to Sea Ceptor SAMs, so while old she’s far from obsolescent.
Evening all,
A quick query – I was at the imperial war museum London today and they had a sealed metal box. An operator would watch for signs of chemical or biological attack via sensors and electronic equipment but I cannot find much on the internet about it? Unless it has a special name given to it. Many thanks.
No idea, but sounds like a retired version of BSCS which is currently used.
“Biological Surveillance Collector System”
Or contact this place.
https://www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/our-schools-and-colleges/defence-cbrn-centre/
https://www.cbrn-uk.com/
If its indeed a hydraulic leak in her rudder control system wouldnt be totally unexpected after a major refit, likely over pressure from the replacement compressor being more powerful than the one it replaced.
Possible.
Although you would hope the over pressure bypass device was replaced at the same time!
The problem is more likely that the new hydraulic pump is exactly on the specified pressure whereas the old one was increasingly under pressure so the hydraulic system is subject to more pressure than it has seen for years?
https://twitter.com/hmssomerset/status/1561775027648974849?s=21&t=mpNHyoZmc7yWoMIWkUDVdg
Its disgusting. We are asking people to go to war with sub standard equipment. If refits cannot be trusted? Time to buy foreign hulls and a basement price, ones that do the job. Strikes me this “British” shipbuilding malarkey is just a corporate sink hole for taxpayers money. And did I mention a certain type of destroyer?
Never let facts get in the way of a deranged rant eh? 🤷🏻♂️
Deranged? No, rant yes. Just sick of seeing taxpayer’s money pissed up against a wall. The facts are we are a weak and silly country trying to play in the big league. “Global Britain” ruling the waves is a sick joke. We have people waiting years for health interventions, people using food kitchens and we do not even know how to look after our own veterans. Don’t know about you, but I was part of that shit show called “defence” for a long, long time. It is a corporate wet dream putting money into a few selective pockets. The proof lies in the shambolic state of equipment at every level. Then Daily Mail readers infest this flag shagger site. Delusional mass psychosis springs to mind.
You’re right, the first one wasn’t, but that one was.
A rant yes but I heartily agree. MOD has lost the plot under long standing government incompetence and wether it be the senior service, army or airforce we are in the midst of a defence shambles alongside every other department of government that is crumbling into ruin. The Admiral of the fleet must surely be a worried man between Gin and tonics! (By ex- RN CEA1)
Thanks, it seems the “rants” come from veterans mainly. Then what do we know?
Hi It started with the STP surveillance system being locked. The company would not provide MOD with the code. An company engineer had to be dispatched.
Next nobody understands the importance of cathode protection. The hull is rotten.
The MEO has no tiffs to fix the kit.
HMS Somerset seen passing under the Forth bridge last evening heading out to sea.
The upgrades sound major. Perhaps the simple explanation is that there were teething problems with the refit. In which case the upgrades to Somerset might well prove to be well worth the effort.
As long as politicians stick their tuppence worth in and over-rule sailors, what can you expect?
1 million hours @ £20 per hour = £20 million.
I think I might have found the problem!
the type 23’s Hull life span was set at 15/20 years that’s when I joined up in 1990 , they have been flogged beyond there Hull life and been fixed with a masking tape and superglue attitude , the leander class frigates were around for 30 years I served on one of the last ones (minerva) they were still good ships just old
Then I went to type 22’s they were built to last but instead of upgrading they ploughed all there efforts into the 23,s which had many a teething problems
The 22,s batch 3’s were the best of the bunch
Then the navy/government stagnated with there investment and here we are with old hulls rushed through upgrades as a stop gaps until the type 45,s & 26,s are up to capacity !Will they never learn 😒
As for no senior officers on board mmmmm even cold moves ie no propulsion running have either Co or xo on board as well as navs unless the ships in hands of dockies ie signed over to the dockyard but it would be attached to tugs on a cold move I think the papers are getting carried away with there stories for a change 😉
15/20 years sounds a short service life for a frigate to me, particularly given the very major refits that RN ships enjoy. I fully accept this is not my field. Is there a reason for such a short service life?
we all get breakdowns as we get older!!!😪
Cant believe there were no senior officers on board for a move to ammunition ship. Also need power for fire mains. Think theres a bit of over reporting here.