The Chief Executive of Ferguson Marine, David Tydeman, has said that Ministry of Defence work could potentially provide a “solid base” for the future of the troubled Port Glasgow ferry builders.

Mr Tydeman insisted the shipyard was now in much better shape and was ready to re-establish its reputation with new orders.

“We have the opportunity, starting with 802 over the next year, to show we are as good as we were 10 years ago,” he said.

Speaking to the BBC, Tydeman said that the yard has recently secured some new work for BAE Systems, delivering Type 26 frigates. Adding that, Despite the difficulties with the current CalMac ships, the yard is also hopeful of future work for the state-run ferry operator, particularly for smaller vessels similar to ferries the yard has successfully delivered in the past.

Tydeman added that seven planned CalMac vessels, along with Ministry of Defence work, could potentially provide a “solid base” of work for the next five to ten years.

“They are exactly in our sweet spot of what we could do well. We’ve just got to price them properly and deliver them on time – and win some hearts and minds to give us that contract.”

A history of bidding for naval work

Unfortunately, Ferguson Marine missed the boat a couple of years ago on the chance to carry out supply-chain work for the Type 31 Frigates being built on the east coast.

Then Defence Secretary Michael Fallon visited the Ferguson Marine shipyard at Port Glasgow in 2017 where he remarked upon the opportunity for the Clyde yard to build the new frigates. Babcock, Thales, BMT, Harland & Wolff and Ferguson Marine had teamed up to form ‘Team 31’ a consortium to bid for the Type 31 Frigate.

Babcock CEO Archie Bethel said:

“Team 31 will allow Babcock and Thales to take forward the key lessons from the Aircraft Carrier Alliance and apply them in a new and highly capable team with Harland & Wolff, BMT and Ferguson Marine.”

While Babcock eventually won the bid, Ferguson Marine was no longer able to receive any work due to the issues at the yard. After Harland & Wolff and Ferguson Marine both collapsed into administration, Bethel told the Financial Times that both yards would still “get a chance to bid” but the company “would not risk the programme” subcontracting work out to them.

On a brighter note for the yard as it exists today, Ferguson Marine said in a recent letter to the Scottish Government that they intend to work with defence contractor BAE Systems “to re-engage with them as a supply-chain partner” for the eight, complex Type 26 Frigates being built upriver. Ferguson say that this third-party work will contribute millions to the costs of running the shipyard and help sustain workforce skills.

“The FMPG board also approved our acceptance of a letter of intent from BAe for FMPG to re-engage with them as a supply-chain partner for their T-26 programme. This type of 3rd party work will develop during the next 3-6 months, and we have assumed will contribute ~£6-7m to the costs of running the shipyard through to handover of 802 (thus reducing the costs charged to Glen Sannox and 801 in 2023/24 by this amount) and creating work for staff not required on the ferries as commissioning of Glen Sannox progresses through to handover.

Overall, the revised best estimates of costs to complete include assumptions on efficiency improvements, contributions from 3rd party work, allowances for inflationary pressures and other economic factors such as cost of living, energy costs, and, importantly, sensible estimates of contingencies that may be required.”

The third-party work on behalf of a military shipbuilder upriver in Govan requires quality, precision and exacting standards. It’s a very big deal when it comes to sustaining the future of the Port Glasgow yard and it, in my opinion, demonstrates the trust the shipbuilding industry has in the Port Glasgow shipyard.

A brighter, more transparent future?

It’s no secret that the two vessels, Hull 802 and the Glen Sannox, will be more than £150m over budget and five years late.

The structural completion of Hull 802, which had been scheduled to begin in September 2022, will now happen in late November of this year. With final dry docking and trials finished by the first quarter of 2024, practical completion is now scheduled for the end of December 2023.

All of the above being said, activity at the yard appears to be increasing and if recent statements are anything to go by, I think the transparency the yard now appears to be committed to shows a far more professional situation than the yard’s workforce endured previously. Yes, there are setbacks – massive setbacks actually – but the largest shipbuilder in the country has given them a vote of confidence and that speaks volumes.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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82 COMMENTS

    • Your handle accurately reflects the Bright Side that you always promote, as far as I can recall, Supportive. That the above statement is the most positive you could conjure speaks volumes.
      If the firm has decided to come clean (my default these days is that all firms will lie first and reluctantly reveal as little truth as possible when forced: instance water companies, ad infinitum – see the Drax BBC1 Panorama last night)).
      OK, that said, Ferguson do have great ‘potential.’…. that’s all I can muster.

        • Just this morning finished Tom Burgis’ Kleptopia., it’s not exactly a fun read. Started it in February, an appropriate month this year, you could say, and very much linked to the novel you may conclude, with hindsight not available to the author when published.
          The subjugation of democratic and moral standards, to the extent they’ve existed, now almost completely subsumed to criminal vested interest, throughout all – ALL – national & international institutions.
          So plainly widespead in the actions of politicians, lawyers, bankers, business, down to the enforcement authorities we lean upon, that I say the bulboes are becoming plain to us all, regardless of Power’s desire to keep them subterranean. I sound ‘leftie’, but we’re all socialists.
          Democracy only has one card; that’s our regular, secret and monitored ballots. Weak as that seems – is – it just about keeps Our Conceited looking over their shoulders periodically. Hence the worldwide effort put into destroying it’s vestiges.
          Hey, it’s my wedding anniversary. So I thought I’d start the day on a joyous note.

      • I haven’t seen that Panorama yet.

        From the coverage they seemed to have to navigate quite a heavily nuanced line to land the sensationalist headline claim that Drax were evil planet-destroyers.

        Seemed to come down to “Drax cut down prime forests”, whilst it was not clear at all whether Drax were actually using anything more than the timber residue they are supposed to use in their pellets, rather than eg the heartwood.

        Will watch it later today.

      • Or The Great Post Office Scandal – jailing innocent postmasters to cover up the fact that the accounting software didn’t work.

        If a High Court judge hadn’t called it out as a scandal and conspiracy……

        I think the problem with Fergusons is that neither Jim McCall nor whichever type of fish is running Scotland ATM want anyone to get to the bottom of this one. Which of itself stinks like a rotten fish.

        It is, of itself, a remarkably inefficient job creating scheme and the workforce could have simply been invited to get jobs down the road building T26 or T31 as there were plenty of bodies needed for the build up for those projects: at that time. It wasn’t like they were going to be unemployed?

        Those ferries are a poster child for ship building nightmares. That is a pattern not to be replicated for any reason whatsoever.

        • Now here’s a funny thing; the only place I’ve mentioned the issues in Kleptopia are on here, this morning *. Opened YouTube an hour back and there was a Recommended UK oriented video touching upon just this issue. The publishing site is not one I follow.
          Not Georges or UKDJ fault whatsoever, of course. But still a wonderous coincidence that YT thought I might be interested a) across unassociated sites, b) my default preferences not to be tracked.
          The issue is not whether there are, or are not, bona fides in the article, but that it was selected under these circumstances, by a site that I’ve looked up and learnt has a clear agenda. Regardless, I haven’t bothered to open it.
          For internet companies we know that data is knowledge is power is money. An attitude that, one can reasonably argue, is a keystone of klepocracy.
          * I still keep a sense of humour, as you know. At my age, closer to wry observation. The anniversary would probably been more ideal had I remembered it.
          Rgs

  2. My instinct is anything to do with the SNP (Scottish government) is a bad idea. A shipyard effectively run by them building UK warships is bound to be used for independence propaganda.

      • The problem is shipbuilding and the defence industry in general is part of the debate. It does irk me that the SNP orders ferries from Turkey whilst BAe orders from a yard they run.

        • Yes but there was space for an 8th boat after the delay to successor. Instead they choose to pay BAE to slow construction and have 7 Astute.

          • yes to a certain extent although funding was provided to cover the gap instead of building another boat. Much the same as happened with the delay on the CVF program.

      • Not true, it was rumoured that HMS Agincourt, the seventh astute boat, would be called Ajax. The plan was always for 7 Astutes to replace the five Swiftsure class subs still in service and the first two Trafalgar’s. Presumably another class would then be brought with perhaps different capabilities, e.g. increased land attack capability, to replace the rest of the Trafalgar’s.

      • I recall it was under Des Brown.

        Not Cameron, Osborne, or Fox.

        SSN reduced 12 to 7 from Blair to 2010.

        Geoff Hoon vowed 12 T45 and 8 SSN at one point.

  4. We are likely going to need every bit of ship building capacity in the UK in the coming years if we are going to build 3 FSS, 6 MRV, 9 Type 26, 5 type 31 and 5 type 32 now that we only have one fully functional surface yard and a second that’s also a dockyard.

    Ferguson Marine bailout has been a disaster for the Scottish tax payer, however some credit needs to be given to the SNP and the Scottish government for having the guts to bail out a yard. The governments in other parts of the UK would not have done this and we would end up with even fewer ship yards.

    Many English nationalist have to wind their necks in a bit as well, this was Scottish tax payers money being used to support a yard in Scotland it was not only the right move but a popular one. It’s neither the SNP or Scotland’s fault that successive English governments have allowed all yards in England to close and its a complete fallacy to say that it’s an attempt to buy off Scottish voters by the UK government as it was BAE that decided to concentrate all ship building on the Clyde long before a Scottish independence referendum and Babcock was the only other game in town when it came to T31 and happens to be mainly based in Scotland.

    • The SNP deserves no credit over Ferguson, recent revelations make the award of the contract to them as very suspicious. Constant changes to the requirements by the SNP then led to the debacle that bankrupted Ferguson.

      Personally this yard having any connection to UK defence work is alarming. I hope both BAE and Babcock steer well clear. Let them screw up more CalMac ferries instead.

      • Whatever is given to Ferguson needs to be given in such a way that if tight quality and deadlines are not met then the work is taken away pronto.

        Babcock did have a point when they said they didn’t want to risk program by giving suspect parties parts of the contract.

        That said CL are working on Astute and T26 bits which does keep another plate line active and welders are kept current.

        I am relatively suspicious as to how small the footprint of Fergusons actually is and how much they could do **efficiently** on that footprint.

        Even BAE have learned that with the Frigate factory. What I am surprised about is that if BAE have most of an automated plate line: why are they subbing bits out to a manual plate line where the QA is going to be more of an issue. Or is BAE’s plate line not really that automated?

        Something doesn’t quite add up here.

        • Perhaps and it’s only a wild guess. BAe have been asked to speed up the production line. To do that they will have to farm out work that would normally be done in house. If Ferguson and build a block to contract with the right quality. Who knows we may be seeing the T26 line sped up. Bugger, there goes another unicorn in the field!

          • I agree: full scale warship building is a real stretch.

            I was pleasantly surprised that CL did what they did with the Attenborough.

            Thing is how efficient and cost effective are the lines? That is the real question: surely?

          • We will find out if the yacht goes ahead. But, considering that Ferguson seems to be in the news for the wrong reasons, I would say that CL should get more of a chance. CL also has a big vacant lot next to it that can be utilised for manufacturing. Oh, Cammell Laird is supporting four tide class ships, and a type 45. Up until June 2022, CL also did the engine refit for HMS Dauntless.

          • Don’t care about the yacht now. Charles III won’t want it. He would probably have kept Britannia.

            Yes, CL have more recent warship history. Just CL may be a bit busy with work for Barrow.

      • Clearly the SNP f**ked it up and are grossly incompetent in the execution. The credit I’m giving them is for trying in the first instance. No government in England had done the same for a shipyard post 1979 which is why they are all gone.

        • As a Geordie it’s tragic the way shipbuilding had disappeared in the North East. There’s a campaign trying to resurrect the Pallion Shipyard in Sunderland which has two covered dry-docks. But the local council seems set on it being ‘redeveloped’ rather than a return to industrial use.

          • I agree and I am sure if there had been a North East Assembly they would have made more effort in this regard given the significance of ship building to the area. However people in the North East choose not to have devolution and its been successive UK/English governments that ran ship building down to zero. People in Scotland should not be slagged off for doing their best to preserve what little ship building is left in the entire country. Its a real shame that what effort is being expended is only going on CL and that Tyneside is being completely over looked.

          • A North East Assembly wouldn’t have made the slightest difference. More corrupt, incompetent socialist politicians never did any good. A large part of the problem is that any donkey wearing a red rosette gets elected.
            The RFA Lyme Bay fiasco illustrated why the existing shipyards in the north east were doomed. Inefficient, badly run, and with antique working practices, only new owners with investment and and end to union control could work.
            The government did run down U.K. shipbuilding, inability to compete doomed them. If it weren’t for the fact warships must be built in the U.K. then the Scottish yards would be gone too.

          • No, definietly not C&L which bid for the Type 31 work, ad recently completed a ferry and RSS Sir David Attenborough. Appledore was still building ships 4 years ago. The lack of orders at the moment is what is leading to the focus on repair. They are more than capable of building ships.

    • Yet the T26, T31 and T32 will be shared by two yards. FSSS will either be built in Rosyth or will be built abroad with perhaps one built in Belfast. As of now it is unknown where MRSS will be built.

    • We’re the Scottish government responsible for its failure in the first place. Ironically its UK government orders that’s helping the yard turn around not orders from the SNP.

        • But the yard failed due to government meddling in the ferry orders. Ferguson place orders for fabricated parts for the ferries as far away as China instead if going to UK yards. The whole thing is a joke.

          • I agree, anything this late and overbudget isn’t good. I’m hoping at the end of this debacle there will be a working shipyard capable of winning orders and lessons will have been learned.

          • Yes it looks to be the case, hopefully the SNP will get a good kick in for this but I doubt it as the media always gives them an easy ride in Scotland and the UK (TV) BiFab was just as big a screw up as was the intervention in Prestwick airport and there dealings with Liberty seem to be equally as incompetent.

          • No the yard failed before that. It’s failed twice, Scottish government was only involved in second failure.

      • The yard failure initially had nothing to do with the Scottish government. It was rescued by Jim McColl on a basis of Scottish government support and a ferry deal. The first ferry went fine but it was subsequently when they awarded two much larger ferries that things went wrong. Clearly the SNP are responsible for the f**k up and it has been a disaster. But there is a ship yard there that can now be built up which is very different to CL, HW or Swan Hunter where there is basically nothing left to build up.

    • Yes there are such a thing as Scottish tax payers. People in Scotland pay different tax rates to people in the rest of the UK those tax rates are set by the Scottish government. Basic rate in Scotland is 1% higher now following Truss tax cuts and the starting bands for 40% tax have been different for about five years. It was part of the last amendment to the Scotland act carried out by Cameron. If your going to try being a d*** to people try and at-least get your facts right. I have no idea what you statement about English yards means perhaps go back and read what I wrote.

    • The 8 Type 26’s will tie up BAe Govan and Scotstoun into the 2030’s.
      5 Type 31+5 Type 32 same for Babcock in Rosyth.
      3 x FSS and 6 x MRSS will fill up H and W Belfast and CL in Merseyside.

      So that leaves H&W Appledore and Ferguson Marine still contract free. Hardly “every bit of shipbuilding capacity in the UK”

      • Appledore and Ferguson are tiny though and as the article points out Ferguson is already building sections for T26. If we are building 3 ships in excess of 40,000 t and for the FSSS and 6 in excess of 20,000 for the MRSS then you will need all that support plus anything A&P has on the Tyne. That’s almost double the output effort for CVF which took them all and they were not building any other ships at the same time. In addition H&W make sections for Astute as well and with 4 SSBN being built that will probably require more sections to be built as well.

        • They’re hardly building “sections” they’re doing some third party supply work. Oh and they’re doing it alongside their “amazing” ferry construction gig, the dramas with which are BY FAR the bigger red flag than any side jobs they’ve got going on. Anyway neither are “tiny” as both are capable of building 100m+ ships, which, when you look at what the navy is building atm, are really the only likely things to follow in the short term.

          H&W do not make sections for the Astutes, all that work is done in Barrow, so that statement throws everything else you say into a big question. H&W might use Appledore to help with whichever build they get but any further help will probably be from Navantia, they’re unlikely to bring A&P in (which I hadn’t even mentioned but sure that’s another ship building facility in the UK that won’t have orders for ship building under the current scheme).

          Your “greater than the CVF load” is also ridiculous sorry. The CVF build was two aircraft carriers, 140,000t of ship, being built at the same time.
          By comparison: MRSS and FSSS will be 2-3 ships at the same time, because neither yard will want to invest heavily in a workforce to burn through their order instantly. That means that the two yards will be working on 50-70,000t of ship building. The amazing thing about having 9 hulls to work on, compared to 2, is that you don’t have to build all 9 at once. Another example for you: the 8xType 26’s are a combined displacement of 89,000t. Considerably more than a QE carrier. By your logic there is no way BAE Govan could build them without enlisting every single ship builder throughout the UK. Which of course is not the case. Because they aren’t building all 8 at the same time.

  5. I really hope the shipyard gets in good shape and orders on the books. It will make it much easier to find a buyer for the yard.
    Time will tell what happens moving forward.

  6. Good, considering we’ll require all the UK shipyards to be fully functional for the increased number of hulls required for the UK Shipbuilding strategy.

    • Probably still a number of significant yards that could ramp up or do a Ferguson if required. Portsmouth has two underutilized covered halls at present. The well known BAE in #3 Basin, & Trafalgar Wharf, erstwhile VT Halmatic, at Portchester.
      Then there are the uncovered docks, and sites around the country that were yards where ground and launch facilities are recoverable, if necessary.

    • Yes, The Turkish orders were because of the 2 delayed ferries, there is no room at Ferguson’s to build them at the moment, had they been on time then Ferguson’s would have bid for the work, there are another 7 smaller ferry orders due in the coming years. Perhaps if previous Scottish labour administrations had supported Ferguson’s in years gone by instead of ordering ferries from Poland then this whole debacle would have been avoided.

      • So why weren’t those ferries ordered from UK yards? Yes they would be more expensive but the SNP is the first to criticise the UK government for not supporting Scottish yards.

          • I don’t think there is a single yard in the UK even making large ferries. I don’t think there is a single facility outside of Scotland in all the UK making actual ships anymore.

        • What UK yards could they order them from? Also again it’s not the Scottish government who order Ferries it’s CalMac.

          • And who owns CalMac? Imagine if it was the same question the otherway BAe closed Portsmouth so UK government went above and beyond to secure orders for Scotland. How much effort did tge SNP put into ensuring work went to a UK yard? I know the answer, nil.

          • It’s a bit like saying who owns network rail or who owns the BBC. It’s the owned by a company that is owned by the Scottish government but they don’t control it directly.

    • The British government sends orders to South Korea for the last non military ships they ordered so what’s your point? Ferguson can’t make every ferry Scotland needs and it’s actually CalMac not the Scottish government who orders the Ferries through a commercial tender.

      • The one case you can quote. Now sum up the rest of UK orders in the last 20 years, it 10s of billions with Scottish defence businesses befitting.

      • And the SNP BITCHED INCESSANTLY ABOUT IT*. So they don’t have a leg to stand on anymore.

        *This despite the fact, as you so smugly pointed out above, that at the time every single yard was full of CVF sections that where being built so that even if the MoD had wanted to place the RFA order within the UK it couldn’t have, and have had the ships in service on time to support the carriers.

  9. I bet queen Nicola does not trumpet the fact that it may well be the MOD that secures the long term future of FM. I have to say that it’s not the people building the ferries it’s the management and the politicians. The SNP ignored advice for political point scoring. They sacked the management and brought in management who had no record of ship building who promptly sacked the head of the various technical areas within the company. If you wrote about what went wrong it would be a volume the size of war and peace. Too many cooks spoil the broth !

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