Type 45 Destroyer HMS Duncan joined forces with FS Chevalier Paul and USS Nitze to take on French aircraft carrier FS Charles de Gaulle and her Carrier Strike Group as part of Exercise Orion 23.

The Type 45 Destroyer was able to “anti-air warfare at scale”.

Exercise ORION 2023 is the first exercise in what French Joint Forces Command hopes will be a triennial cycle of exercises aimed at reinforcing joint forces operational readiness.

ORION 23 is based on a scenario developed by NATO to explore the different phases of a modern conflict and will be on a scale unprecedented in recent decades.

It aims to train the French armed forces within a multinational joint forces framework to refocus the armed forces and their various branches and administrative levels on a joint, multi-domain exercise in a contested environment.

The exercise will also involve an inter-ministerial perspective extending beyond purely military concerns. So, one of the major training themes of ORION 23 will be the coordination of assets and effects over the full spectrum of operations. In short, it’s a big exercise covering land, air and sea operations.

 

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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35 COMMENTS

    • Very very few. All 3 of those ships have decent anti air and anti missile defences. I’d imagine the carrier strike group would have lost a few of its screening warships in the engagement.

      • NATO has the luxury of realistic wargaming against advanced and well trained professional fellow members, raising the bar for everyone and maximising the usefulness of the training.

        There’s no doubt in my mind whatever, that should NATO find itself at war with a hostile country, it would roll them up pretty bloody quickly, from a conventional perspective at least.

        It’s becoming absolutely clear that Russia really is a paper tiger, outdated equipment, poor training, new equipment that’s not as capable as some analysts thought and using Soviet doctrine that’s utterly failed.

        Despite the years of cuts, NATO is still an ‘extremely’ capable military alliance.

        • Totally agree with the general thrust. But certain European nations must raise defence expending to min of 2%, which is not a target, it is a minimum level!
          I wish we one day reach the point where European NATO can defend our own continent without US assistance – not saying we want to break away from the US at all.

          • Totally agree Graham, the fact that 3% GDP on defence now looks like a mountain to climb (I would regard that as an acceptable amount, we should never have gone below) shows how far things have gone.

            The great wake up call for NATO, should set the bar at 2.5 % as a minimum to be a member.

            Why should the American tax payer pay for European defence? All NATO countries should pull their weight. The so called peace dividend, is truly over, can anyone really doubt that now?

          • Agree Europe needs to be able to handle its own security as well as providing some support for global security. We cannot really allow the US to become to distracted by Europe ( they should be a second fiddle) as they really need all their eyes on the pacific.

          • It’s funny because when the French said that, everybody thought “Oh, France wants to break with NATO and create a hole in the alliance”.

            Although everybody agrees that a strong Europe is a strong NATO…

          • Morning David, quite the opposite, there is a strong case for a totally new Defence Review, increasing force levels across the board.

            It’s going to require a substantial cash injection to get back ahead of the curve and cross party concensus to secure the Armed forces for a generation.

            Let’s reserve our judgement until we see the results of the revised review … Not holding out too much hope though!

          • Govt is doing a new IR, no doubt followed by a revised Defence Command Paper. No idea why they did not do this soon after 24/2/2022. Are they not that interested in Defence of the Realm and our Continent?
            Ben Wallace is said to be asking for £10bn or £11bn – reports vary. Very much doubt he will get anything like that.

          • My guess is he will get a small uplift of 2/3 billion…

            Combined with a proper reorganisation and stop going for gold plated UK specific options, were applicable, then 3 billion would make a small difference.

            With no changes, then a 3 billion a year uplift will be just be swallowed up by the next Ajax to come along.

            My guess would be a ‘gold plated’ UK specific solution to what should be a simple off the shelf option for Puma Medium Helicopter replacement, with money just poured in to another black hole of out of control spending…

            Ill take bets on that one!

          • A major point is that with a tiny army (and no doubt smaller navy and air force than we would wish) we do need to have equipment that is exceptional as an offsetting factor.

            However I don’t see that the Ajax problems have been principally down to a gold-plated spec.

          • To be honest I’m not entirely sure our government has been interested in much apart from its own internal party political dramas…it’s very much time for a new broom..

          • The trouble is Jonathan, in our rather inclement political weather, you are simply getting the brolly out for a different impending shower of shit….

            Labour have nothing new to say, or offer, they are simply (probably) the winner by default.

            All they do is poo poo the Government with “We wouldn’t have done that” and if the Scumbag Tories say its white, then we say its black etc etc

            Its a poor show, Starmer and Co will be an absolute rabble, mile wide lead, but an inch thick as they say. I don’t see any outstanding players in his ranks.

            I will confidently predict a continuation of the endless strikes, as the Unions realise Starmer wont be throwing buckets of cash at them for one…

            What’s the bet they will be badly out of favour after their first years in power, probably with the opposition Tories under Boris Johnson 20 points ahead😂

  4. Fantastic I love it when our french cousins 10 centuries removed lol. Still getting a virtual kick up the ass. I think we should sell the NHS to the Americans and Saudis and who ever else wants to take on that pie… Total assets are £3trillon enough to pay our national debt and pay for economical upgrades to everyone’s homes and the £159 billion cost saved every year for the mismanagement and unaccountable staff holding the nation to Ransom… We need to spend at least an extra £25 billion a year propping up and arming our military for at least a decade and pay our squaddies a decent wage… Reality is folks the NHS is destroying our country… This is the real threat to our security

    • Well since the US government pays its health care providers more per person than the British government pays the NHS…then the US public and employers then have to pay another amount per person more that the UK governments pays for the NHS…if we sold our health system to the US providers we would be paying something in the region 450billion per year ( the US system gets paid around 3 times the amount per person that the UK system) in very short order…..but you know what you would not see DRs and Nurse on strike anymore….one thing the US system does is pay its fee earners very well.

      Im not sure how the NHS is destroying the county since it’s just about the cheapest health system in the western world on a per person basis…but feel free to somehow find the 8-9 grand insurance a year it costs in a truly private western system or maybe we just don’t do healthcare any more if your poor because that really works…nothing like kicking up the infant mortality rates to say 5.8 per 1000 babies from the 3-4 or lowering average life expectancy down into the 70s….that’s the way they have gone in the states….make loads of money of people….make the state prop up the system..for even more cash….to the same existent most other state managed health systems pay for whole lot…reduce all the indicators of health at the same time….

      is the NHS perfect..nope but a lot of its troubles relate to this nationals refusal to sort out social care and pay careers properly..and a level of entitlement that’s staggering in regards to healthcare…critical of the health system..will underfunding it by untold Billions over 50 year or more and then expecting it to do everything…including fixing a broken nail to saving a life to taking care of granny for 6 months because now-one will pay for her social care.

      that 159 billion each year is the cheapest amount of money you can pay for a western level heath system for 60 million people.

      As of 2022 UK pays 10.5% of its GDP to healthcare. France 12.2% of its GDP, Germany 12.9% of its GDP..the U.S. as a private market driven system spend 16.8% or its GDP on healthcare ( that’s works out at over twice as much per person as the UK).

      Also the Percentage of health cost payed by the governments of France, UK Ana Germany are around the Same at around 77%..the French have direct taxation for healthcare ( social security contributions) at 7% for employee and 13% employer….there is then a optional top up or if your over a specific income you have to have a top up insurance as well. The German system is not much different with a mandated national insurance payment and then an opt out option for the better off…

      just for reference all western health systems eat up a massive level of every nations GDP it’s the cost of living a western lifestyle and also wanting to live into our 80s. The NHS just happens to be just about the cheapest system for delivering that. There is a reason that even Margaret Thatcher never ever sold our health system…even the most effective disruptor and advocate of market economics new that setting up a private Health system was bonkers and financially suicidal for our nation….consecutive governments have kept the NHS not because they love it ( they all hate it as it’s a responsibility they don’t want..a part of the county alway thinks it costs to much and another part think it’s always not delivering)..but because it would be financially nuts to do anything else.

      The best think to do around this is pull out some academic comparisons studies of health systems…there are some good one especially US studies ( they spend all their time looking at other systems because theirs is so utterly and completely broken). The common wealth studies are good especially the mirror mirror studies as these come out every few years and you can track how each system has worked over the decades.

    • Just so you know I would love to work in a U.S. style market lead system..if you think the NHS staff are holding you to ransom…just you wait until a private market lead systems asks you just how much you think your life is worth…as an advanced nurse practitioner in the US private system gets paid around 130,000 dollars to 140,000 dollars a year compared to around £40,000- 50,000 in the NHS..just bring it on ( that’s one reason why the NHS has a staffing crisis…international competition)….as for all your consultants holding the NHS to ransom for their 90-100k a year…..well the average earnings of a consultant in the US is a few million a year….that’s why the U.S. system is so great….there is no need for Unions when it’s a pay what we want or sod off and die type market….you can obviously chose not to have your primary angioplasty here with us now and not pay the £25,000 for the surgery and further 25,000 for rehab….I’m sure your children will make good use of the money…you won’t as you will be dead ( market forces don’t work when it’s pay up or die).

      • I earn £50k a year as a critical care practitioner with 26 years full time experience. I have a masters degree. Work regularly 60-72 hours per week. Yet somehow my colleagues and I are considered to be holding the country to ransom. Vs work abroad and earn + £100k for the same job.
        I don’t expect the NHS to pay me +£100k but an above inflation pay rise for the first time in 15 years, so that I’m not in essence continually becoming poorer would be a good start.
        Oh and next pandemic, don’t clap for heroes as clearly a large proportion of the populace don’t believe in that. Clapping one day, thumping us the next. Cheers.

        • Indeed what most people don’t appreciate is that our health system (NHS) is only as cheap as it because staff are happy to work in a system that is anti market forces…they fail to understand we accept lower wages than we could get because healthcare workers in this country think beyond market forces. If we were paid what the international labour market and market forces actually dictated this nation would have to pay one hell of a lot more…

          most people don’t recognise the problem has come about not because health care professionals have suddenly become greedy but because the government has dropped healthcare and social care workers wages below a level that our health and social care systems can compete both internationally and nationally…we have senior clinicians and registrants either not moving to this county or leaving to follow the pay..and for non registrants like ambulance techs, health care assistants, social careers etc, they can earn more working for a supermarket..without seeing death and suffering with all the burdens on your being that gives. So we have a few hundred thousand vacancies….that’s what the strikes are over as much even as needing to ensure our wages stay in line with inflation.

          leading to catastrophic levels of loss of strategic workforces. Its to the point I know cannot get providers to take on services even when I have the funding..because they will not be able to find the staff at the wages the NHS and social care pay…the DOH don’t mind as the money just goes back to the central pot and they can say the have offered more money this year…the fact it’s bound in rules ( such as pay levels) making it impossible to spend is irrelevant.

          I do have a real problem with those individuals who have literally no understanding of health economics going on about how it would not happen in the private sector….not realising that a market forces driven health system can charge as much as they can afford to pay for their life and health…you can chose to buy a car or not..you have no choose in healthcare and never will have…all the happens in a market driven system is a monopoly than can charge what the hell it wants to.

      • But you need to factor in 6 weeks paid leave + Bank Holidays. US workers tend to get at best 2 weeks annually.

        • Well yes that will give you around a 10% up lift but the US are paying 100% more as a minimum. You’re talking for a senior nurse £50,000 a year in the NHS vs around $140,000 dollars In the US system. The US is not even the best paid Switzerland is..with an average salary of $85,000 ( for staff nurses) going up to $250,000 for senior nurses, which is to be honest bonkers..they also have one of the highest density of nurses in Europe 18 per thousand people ( Norway has 18 per thousand as well) the Uk has a pathetic 7.7…..which puts us below Russia and at the same level as Lithuania….yes we have the same number of nurses per 1000 as piss poor countries like Russia and Lithuania…since Nurses are the backbone of any health system…it makes you realise why the NHS is running out of staff…we also have less drs…around 2.6 vs most western systems having 3.6-4 per 1000….and less hospital beds at 2.6 per 1000 instead of the average of 4.4 per thousand…this makes our hospitals inefficient…as bed occupancy should be at around 85% for a hospital to run well…Uk hospitals never really drop below 96% and most at present are running at 110% capacity ( using day services and assessment areas as bedded areas)….whatever the majority think the biggest problem with the health system in this county is that no one has moral gumption to tell the public western healthcare costs a lot more that they have been willing to pay and if you want a services that has the staff and capacity to keep you alive into your 80s you need to put your hand in your pocket big time…Americans know this so do most of our European friends…..

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