Defence Minister Alex Chalk dismissed hypothetical questions over Scottish independence, telling the UK Defence Journal that Scotland’s place in the union is secure.

Minister for Defence Procurement Alex Chalk told the UK Defence Journal, when asked about Royal Navy shipbuilding in an independent Scotland, that Scotland’s place in the union is secure and that the “lights of Scottish shipbuilding are burning brighter than ever”.

The Minister also highlighted the UK’s ability to deliver exceptional capabilities through the collaboration of the four nations. He recalled past doubts about the future of shipbuilding in Scotland, but stated that it is now thriving, with its potential maximized by staying in the United Kingdom.

When I asked about the future of Royal Navy orders in an independent Scotland, I was told:

“I’m not going to get into these hypotheticals. I think Scotland’s place in the union is secure. And what this shows is, together, the Four Nations of the United Kingdom can deliver something truly extraordinary, a world-beating capability and there is no doubt of course, there’s no doubt that our ability to do that is enhanced by the fact that we come together as one nation.

As I said before, 10 years ago, people were wondering as the cranes disappeared from this very yard, did this herald the end of shipbuilding here? In fact, the person who said that was a former First Minister, who now is no longer in office.

I’m pleased to be able to say that the lights of Scottish shipbuilding are burning brighter than ever, and one thing that is crystal clear is the ability of those lights to burn as brightly as possible is enhanced by Scotland’s remaining in the United Kingdom.”

Speaking to the UK Defence Journal, SNP Defence Spokesman Dave Doogan MP said:

“The steel cutting on Birmingham is another excellent milestone in the generation of Type 26 for the Royal Navy. BAEs Global Combat Ship represents a welcome departure from traditional Royal Navy procurement in that industry and engineers are in the driving seat with Whitehall and politicians limited to playing an enabling role. This is why GCS is an export success, and this procurement model must be the template going forward.

The UK Government must [also] get serious about ending feast and famine and instead act to provide the sustained pipeline of naval ship orders to match their political rhetoric over the last 10 years. The industrial reality is that primes need time to gear up with skills and equipment over the horizon.

Nevertheless, Alex Chalk MP is a beacon of competence within the MOD ministerial team. He must commit to ordering Type 32, or more realistically Type 31 Batch Two, frigates from Babcock in Rosyth. Given the success of Type 31 production thus far, I’m confident that just as soon as the Treasury give him permission, Mr Chalk will do just that.”

You can read more about the steel-cutting ceremony today by clicking here.

Work starts on construction of huge new frigate in Scotland

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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104 COMMENTS

  1. Good to see France has increased its defence budget to $450 Billion (A third higher than the previous 6 years) for the period 2024 to 2030 . Which is the largest increase in French Military spending for over 50 years.

    • Wee wee. Great news for our french neighbours. I wonder what there priorities will be for extra spends?

        • French deterrent in sub terms is not on pare with the US or UK their subs are less capable probably why the Aussies chose AUKUS. They do have deterrent nuclear bombs fast air capable with the mirage jets so I believe which the UK does not have.

          • Yes it’s really part of the strategic mix. Just not as secure as the submarine part. But when the carrier is operational it gives a very significant option around nuclear escalation without actually crossing the read line and using a bucket of sunshine as moving the carrier becomes a nuclear escalation if needed( but only having the one carrier is they key weakness of this arm of the friend nuclear force).

          • And the Rafales, including the M.

            I read somewhere that when the De Gaulle was remodelled after the French stopped regularly carrying nukes in her, its capability to handle air-delivered nukes was maintained, and there’s a bunker deep inside reserved especially for nuclear weapons. I read it some time ago so it may no longer be true, but I believe that in theory that’s still an option.

          • The subs are probably good. RN and french deterrents did bump each other a while ago.

          • You do have to wonder on the actual odds of that one, it must have been the equivalent of rolling a 6 a mad number of times in a row…two nuclear subs with a specific mission of hiding from everything in very large 3 dimensional operational areas in a ocean actual collide in space and time….with only likely 2 subs operational in that space…..it’s really mind boggling unlikely when you think about it…..it does show ( and I know this from experience) every catastrophic even that can possibly happen no matter how unlikely..is always at some point going to occur and bit someone on the arse.

          • I thought the main reason for abandoning the French Aussie sub program was delays in the French build timescale.

        • Is that how they spell wee wee?! Crikey french is a funny language. As u can probably guess foreign languages aren’t my strongpoint 😂😂😂. I can say un baguette, du pan chocolate. Sorted for food

          • Not really or only if they’re feeling charitable. It’s une baguette et du pain au chocolat.

          • 😀I understand. As a french speaker the biggest complaint they have against us is pronouncing vowels . It makes a huge difference but the the article or adjective agreeing with the noun is the MOST important thing . “ un” baguette “ is just not going to cut it ! Une ( oon ) will make sure you dont starve and you might get a few brownie points along the way .

    • Hi Farouk,
      Always enjoy your posts and expertise on military matters.
      “450 billion dollars” France defence budget? Did you add an extra 0.
      Cheers,
      George

    • Hi Farouk,
      Apologies read the recent information on the French defence budget increase.
      The increase is over the next 7 years at 413 billion Euros, making the defence budget at 59 billion Euros per annum.
      Cheers,
      George

      • This is a government statement part or ,potentially all of which, has yet to have approved funding . The new aircraft carrier comes into this even though they admit funding will not be available until ‘ 27 to begin construction.

    • If it’s going to be based on T31 then the only news I want to read is that we won’t be building them. Our major weakness going forward is a lack of ASW capability and more cheap, non-quietened frigates don’t help with that.

      • Wonderful….. I seriously hope they get the go-ahead. We truly need an increase in escort hull numbers.

        Any idea when the funding decision will be made?

  3. Hopefully with the collapse of the SNP we can all move on to discussing something else. Once the thief’s and tax dodgers are out of downing street next year everything calm down and the UK can start re asserting its place in the world.

          • To my knowledge no cabinet ministers ended up on reality TV shows and no one was charged by the police.

            Current government really takes it to new lows along with the SNP now sturgeons husband has been arrested.

          • Ah yes labour just closed most of the pits and devastated the economy leading to thatcher balancing the books. Labour consistently spends billions we don’t have leaving debts for our kids.
            Labour more recently destroyed the military with cuts. Say what u want but labour has done nothing but inflate benefits, create a culture of “I’m entitled” and spend billions they don’t have.
            Yes conservatives are s**t but labour are worse

          • Yup. People have short memories. Labour were a disaster when they were in, at the time raiding the MoD budget to pay for Afghanistan. The Conservatives were known as the party of Defence but have proved to be as utterly useless in the defence of the realm as Labour.

            Sunak is in complete denial about the investment needed in our Armed Forces if we are to meet our changing world and the threats posed. Ukraine is of course, the prime example. Nobody ever thought such a conflict would ever kick-off but it did and exposed how depleted and unprepared we truly are.

            Next-up to the plate will be China and Taiwan. If you ask me, Xi is itching for a punch up soon (experts estimate in 2-5yrs he will try to take Taiwan). Make no mistake, we will be dragged in – as unprepared as we will be – and it will be too late. Game over.

          • Did Tony Blair lie to take a country to war, Did Gordan Brown bankrupt the country, and Did Steptoe want to ignore the Voting Puplic. Labour is full of racist bigoted MPs and has as much to hide as Tory. they are all as bad.

      • There are bigger issues than Labour vs Tory. For example, prostitution, smuggling and drugs add significantly to the circulation of money and therefore to GDP, a measure which really cannot be simply equated with a healthy economy and society. Again, leaving things to unregulated market forces leads to widening wealth gaps, homelessness, huge amounts of alcohol related disease and NHS costs, sewage filled rivers at home; and abroad to destruction of Amazon forests to grow soya much of which is sent to China. Governments need to start governing properly in the public interest, not assuming that every human desire is saintly FFS.

      • True however the current lot have stretched the limits. The outright theft over COVID is positively third world levels of corruption. Don’t get me started on the honours lists.

        The piss has been positivity taken, PM’s running dodgy hedge funds and health secretaries with mates down the pub getting NHS contracts. Never thought I would see anything like that from a British government of any colour.

        • Yes but when it comes to the Navy the Tories have done well with a thoroughly competent minister in charge. Labour on the other hand had a part time defence minister and I dont think they ordered any frigates which is why we are down to 11 now.
          Labour dont inspire me with any great confidence over defence.

          • When the Tory’s came to power we had 24 escorts and 12 SSN’s. what do we have now? Labour ordered the carriers, they are the best thing that ever happened to the RN, Cameron tried to sell them/scrap them but could not because Labour had it written it in the contract that the cost of cancelation was the same as the cost of building them. Labour got us a 15% and joint tier development on the greatest event naval aircraft for nothing and ordered 138.

            When the Tory’s came in to power we also had a CSG and ARG capability but the Tory’s scrapped Ocean without replacement so now we have a RFT.

            Can you please demonstrate how the current government has “done well” for the navy?

          • At least labour cuts in the 90s and early 2000s corresponded to what at the time was a genuinely improved security situation in the world.

            What we’ve seen from the tories is cuts whilst all the evidence is world security has been severely declining again.

            Whilst i didn’t agree with the labour cuts I could see the valid argument justifying them, it was something that could be genuinely debated. What we’ve seen since though is just inexcusable.

          • Gordon Brown comes in for a lot of stick. But his foresight in the financial crash was a life saver and by making the carrier contract uncancellable he saved the UK ship building industry.

          • Yes and that Contract was a good idea, But again it was a mates Contract. something the Tories keep getting pulled for

          • Yes they did and it cost the UK £2billion in R&D and it’s one of the biggest exports in UK history.

            It supports 25,000 jobs and around £1 billion a year in revenue almost all of that is exports.

            The government generates more than £400 million a year in tax revenue from F35 production in the UK.

            I’m guessing you don’t read a lot, if your going to Troll then atleast have something useful to say.

            https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/f-35-support-25000-british-jobs/

          • I’m not trolling I’m correcting your incorrect statement that the f35 share was free. It wasn’t we paid part of the costs.
            U said “ Labour got us a 15% and joint tier development on the greatest event naval aircraft for nothing ”
            It cost billions it wasn’t free so how is that trolling? I suggest keeping your insults to yourself , if u can’t say anything nice don’t say anything as my mother used to say

          • I think you call that sound investment in British industry. Spend billions to make more billions.

          • Could I just substitute Cameron for “ Tory’s” . I had the misfortune of meeting him once in a defence context . He just didn’t get it !!! Frankly he was embarrassing.

          • Yes, pretty much the worst thing to ever happen to the UK was the day an Eton educated low tier aristocrat said call me Dave.

          • I hope that was in a defence context as well . Frankly he was a disappointment to me , in a senior role at the time that a Prime Minister, with the educational background he had , was so ignorant of the the Armed Forces and their role. It wasn’t just only the obvious one , but also their importance and participation in the culture of our country and the daily life of most people even though they may not realise it .

          • Have to loosen your grip mate and stop Tugging, MRA4 was a LABOUR issue which lead to further issues. Ocean couldn’t be upgraded to take the modern communications, and as any one who actually sailed on her was a basket. Carriers consumed the Budget and maybe were not quite right, Yet the contract for Browns mates was set up. They are all shite Yet LOSING makes children Bitter and YOU LOST but i bet you had your hand and arm out to Boris during Covid. and took everything you could.,

        • Shall we add ex MPs being jailed for expenses fraud used to fund cocaine habits or city mayors removed for corruption, oh but they were Labour!

          • Yes, when labour where in power and people did bad things they got prosecuted even if they were labour MP’s.

            The current government sticks them in the House of Lords with nice PPE contracts.

          • Your really are so so sad. bitter and lonely as no one is going to want to sit in the outside loo with you and your whippet

        • Ahhhhh Yes but if Labour were in power, we would be all dead while they worked out which 3rd world country could supply the PPE. Corbyn had a chance and he shot his fat against the wall. Starmer the man who released criminals to rape and kill people on Londons streets and coundnt prosercute the worlds largest sex offender. Typical Labour who think there OWN SHIT dont smell.

    • I agree Jim. A better outcome was always there for the U.K. to lose. With agility and imagination the nation has prospects. However, this is by far the worst political class I have ever seen. They are obsessed with silly and dangerous fads and how they look in day to day media headlines; a tiny number have done anything other than politics (holiday jobs and stays in the jungle don’t count). The future is not looking rosy whomever wins next time.

      • Both are pretty garbage. Been the same for years. One propagated an illegal war & cost the lives of hundreds of thousands, the other dishonest, corrupt and cost billions.
        The beauty of our current system is that we all sit around shouting “Tory scum” or pointing out all the myriad flaws in socialism instead of addressing the actual problem. Either side is as corrupt as the other. How is Tony worth £60m? Or his son worth £150m+? All legit and above board or payment for services rendered? They’re all at it. It’s all a distraction & anyone daft enough to think either is infallible or more virtuous than the other needs their head examined.
        Unless and until we get a viable third option, we’re scuppered and we’ll just lurch from crisis to crisis with a promise of better days whilst they milk the nation for everything it’s worth.

        • I’ll correct myself, not “all at it”. I’m sure many are there for the right reasons and a good amount wouldn’t be corrupted. Just a good chunk are corruptible and those that are seem to rise to the top… I apply this to both parties.

    • Issue is Labour has to balance those books as well, and as a Host of the Local city and town councils have Proved Labour can borrow and spend. but not balance.

  4. Can anyone refresh us on whether the Artisan radar going onto the T26s has been upgraded? Is it the current model? I thought they might upgrade it a bit to support any future weapon developments for the MK41s.

    • Artisan is always being upgraded as a lot of it is software based. Couple of guys with a laptop did a T23 I was working on at the time in a couple of days.

      • Thanks GB. Are all the T26s are getting newly built equipment, Artisan included, with nothing brought over from any T23s?

        • Some stuff will carry over. That said after its been removed , stripped down to lowest unit configuation, rebuilt , modded, tested , fitted, HAT and SAT’d is it still the original fitted to T23 and not new built? In name only perhaps.

          • In any case it is a mistake to think that the radar head fitted to T23 frigate A will be the same unit that was before a dry docking period after a dry docking period.

            The unit fitted post dry dock will simply be the one from the common stockpile that has been fully upgraded and certified – just like Phalanx or 30mm. With digital systems the old issue of ‘tuning the hardware’ to the idiosyncrasies of each ship is gone. That is now all in a software file.

            Same with missiles. The advantage of using the same mod state of Sea Ceptor everywhere is that there is total commonality.

      • Quite – the days of having a bespoke console connected to a computer room are long gone.

        Rack of blade servers linked to a PC is more like it now.

        So how the analogue filtering, gating, receiver, digitiser/DQD and post processing are done and integrated together are all software controlled and tuneable.

    • That area has been discussed on here recently,the consensus is that the work on that part of the Ship is unfinished,those supports will be covered up.

  6. Meanwhile across the water on the Emerald Isle:
    https://i.postimg.cc/4x8RBYY1/Opera-Snapshot-2023-04-05-082317-www-irishexaminer-com.png
    WED, 05 APR, 2023 – 02:00
    SEAN O’RIORDAN, DEFENCE CORRESPONDENT

    The navy’s personnel crisis has sunk to new depths as it is now so short of frontline sailors that, for the first time, none of its four ship-fleet, worth €280m, has been able to go out on patrol.Previously, patrols have been delayed or temporarily postponed due to a lack of specialists such as medics, communications experts, marine engineers, and ERAs (Engine Room Artificers).

    However, the Irish Examiner can reveal that on top of this continuing problem there is a now a critical shortage of able seamen (the equivalent of three-star privates in the army). The navy is so short of these frontline personnel that if any report in sick, ships cannot sail. Navy bosses will not send ships to sea if they aren’t adequately crewed because they fear putting personnel at health and safety risk.

    The crewing crisis has left its four modern ships — LÉ Samuel Beckett, LÉ James Joyce, LÉ WB Yeats, and LÉ George Bernard Shaw — tied up at the Haulbowline navy base in Cork harbour.

    • Interestingly, back in Scotland the ex-First Minister Nicola Sturgeon’s husband has been arrested by the police. Apparently they are investigating an alleged fraud of SNP funds involving a missing sum of £600,000.

      Ex SNP Chief Executive Peter Murrell has been named by the BBC as the person arrested. Mr Murrell denies any wrongdoing.

      • It’s all over the news ( also a good time for others to hide bad news) the investigation has been ongoing since July 2021 and Murrell has done himself no favours by being opaque , and hindering the polis every step of the way. That said , It appears Wee Jimmy is clean seeing as she has a women in twice a week .

        • Honestly politics seems to have way of corrupting people. Maybe it’s the power.
          I would think if nothing wrong has been done the party and people involved would provide evidence to show that at the first opportunity. Instead we have a long investigation and now arrests and a load of press about it.
          Hopefully we find out the truth soon.

  7. I see Sturgeon’s husband has been arrested over SNP financial misconduct and illegal activity eg fraud probe.
    Hilarious…wonder if wee Jimmy cranky herself will be implicated. I hope Scotland’s police force are not scared to take the inquiry through to its conclusion.

    • Eh? Needs to be roomy to accommodate 2 helicopters and/or lots of kit in mission bays which aids versatility.
      Larger size also increases crew comfort (attract and retain personnel) and gives more deck space for whiz bangs.
      Couldn’t care less if it was 80k tonnes, it’s cheaper than some alternatives (see US frigates) and from what people say on here, it’s world class.
      What makes it a waste?

      • 2 helicopters? can only operate 1 AW101 or 2 Lynx, that is inferior to a smaller FREMM with size for AW101+NH90 or 2 SH-70

        • Errrr… think you may be wrong there old chap.
          https://www.navylookout.com/the-type-26-frigate-mission-bay-part-2-configuration-and-contents/

          If you scroll down, you’ll find a plan view showing 2 x Merlin aboard.

          Besides, the Merlin OSD is planned for 2040, extended from 2030 in the last review, so they were due to be replaced when the T26 go into service but will now be replaced about 20 years before the T26 is. With what, we don’t know. Point is, can take 2 (not that we have the cabs) and will likely take 2 of whatever we replace Merlin with since they’re a big old beast.

          • Now explain to me how do you operate those 2 Merlin since for one to land the other as to take off…if you want to echange their positions.

            In T26 configuration you cannot pass one trough the other, so if the Merlin in hangar have a malfunction or needs to do maintenance the other in the mission bay cannot move to the heli platform.

            While in FREMM and others the hangars are side by side. So what happens to one helicopter does not affect the other access to the heli platform.

          • Step 1) You wheel one onto the deck. Step 2) wheel the other out.
            Step 3) Put the first back.
            🤷🏻‍♂️
            Don’t get me wrong, side-by side would be a neater solution to me too, but I’m no naval engineer so couldn’t tell you why they designed it the way they did.

          • How can you move 2 +10 ton helicopter to the sides of platform to not talk about bad weather?
            Helicopter of that size are moved only to the center of platform by powered slot tracks.

            I think they designed it that way because they do not think of operating 2 Merlins.

          • For example you can search for top photos of Italian FREMM which is the other country that uses Merlin and you can see the racks clearly in the heli platform.

    • It’s a multi role warship. Optimised for top tier ASW warfare. Minus the ASW weapons of course, or torpedo defence system. Much will depend upon the Mk41 vls fit. It’s going to need an equivalent to SUBROC to deliver stand off ASW capability if it’s helicopter is unable to fly.

      • SUBROC?
        No buckets of sunshine please they where a pain to look after.

        It will have a Helo for ASW. Since time in memorial and stated in the BR 6573 Air Weapons Handling and Stowage and the MATCH System handbook,  the Helo is the primary ASW weapon for a ship.

        RN vessels get fitted with Ship Torpedo defence system Sonar 2170. Its a towed array/decoy system that listens for torpedo’s and then uses counter measures to decoy it. The countermeasures are electronic from the tail and active fired from launchers on the upper deck that deploy in water decoys. The command console inboard gives course and speed instructions to allow the command to steer the best course to defeat the inbound torpedo taking into account the tail doing its bit and the deployed in water decoys doing their bit.

    • Mmm such a wasted hull design it is big, flexible and will prove economical to crew and operate.
      Which is probably why the RAN and RCN are building 24 more of them.

      • @ABCRodney

        But that is precisely my argument, the RAN and RCN Type 26 are truly multi mission ships with area AAW +100km range anti air missiles with new fixed panel radars while RN version languishes with a rotating radar from start of the century.

        • The Global Combat Ship idea was binned. We ordered an ASW Frigate. That’s what we’re getting.
          You want multi-domain, multi-mission ships? I’m afraid we have to cross our fingers for T83.

  10. The minister may profess no doubts, but it’s only a soundbite. But there are serious doubt of HMGs claims to be building the fleet(Going down to 17 escorts in service soon, T32 may be terminated, T82 delayed or reduced, capability gaps remaining). We claim to exceed the old 2% GDP defence spending, but some say we’ll be doing just 1.9% for the next few years.

    I think we do need a larger fleet to face the threats & realities out there, deter those who think it fine to expand their empires & break the rules of international relations & law, & especially to be able to both cover our excisting commitments & provide resilience. We need to stop delaying new builds by miserly funding.

  11. “The lights of Scottish shipbuilding are burning brighter than ever”.

    What planet is he from or has he been overdosing on cucumber sandwiches ?
    Those lights were brightest when 60% of all world shipping was built on the Clyde 🤔

    The Donald J Trump scriptwriters must have set up a sub office.
    After all he is the Defender of the greatest political movement the world has ever seen.
    So Civil Rights, Female Emancipation, universal suffrage, US War of Independence, Civil War and abolition of slavery are small potatoes compared to MAGA.

    Yep the idea of total BS has spread to UK.

    • I had a chuckle at that line too. Clearly needs to read a history book or, since he’s in Glasgow, maybe pop to one of the museums about the history of the Clyde.

      Re Trump. Russel Brand has some interesting thoughts on YouTube or Rumble about why anyone listens to such rhetoric. Might be worth 10min of your time.

      • El Salvador president already said that US lost any argument about “Democracy” by jailing an opposition leader on such absurd charges.
        I agree for this and other reasons US is already a banana republic.

        • Oof. Based.
          As a counter, there’s an argument that, given the way power is separated (ie the NY DA is not an employee of the federal Gov), it’s simply an over-zealous DA or that the DA is desperately trying to do something to appeal to the masses & distract from failures elsewhere, rather than ‘the dems’ trying to jail a political opponent because they can’t beat their rhetoric. But even then, it’s certainly not a good look.

          I think the US lost any argument about democracy when there were a dozen questionable events during the counting at the last election & rather than encouraging transparency & validation, it was swept under the rug and ignored. Let’s not get started on the massive weak link that is the electronic voting machines…..

          If I’d come out ahead & beaten orange man fair and square, I’d have them recount every vote 50 times over & over again, live on TV showing all 90M ballots one at a time; “another one for me, and another one for me… and ooh look, another vote for me”. Didn’t do that though did they…. Or would I just be a bad winner? 😉

  12. The SNP have ensured Scotland’s place in the Union. The subject is now moot. We can move onto more important issues.

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