Imagery shows the first of five Type 31 Frigates, HMS Venturer, in her current state of construction at Babcock’s Rosyth shipyard in Scotland.
With work underway on Venturer and Active, alongside the Type 26s on the opposite coast of Scotland – it means Britain’s shipyards are producing two new classes of frigate for the front-line fleet for the first time in more than 30 years.
It's official, HMS Venturer is on Twitter. Follow us as the First in the Class of Type 31 Frigates progresses through build, testing and commissioning and acceptance into Service with the @RoyalNavy@RNinScotland#InspirationClass pic.twitter.com/IgnfJlGsL3
— HMSVenturer (@HMSVenturerRN) May 16, 2023
Type 26 will replace the submarine-hunting Type 23s coming to the end of their active lives over the next 15 years, while Venturer and her four sisters will succeed the general pupose 23s.
Each of the Inspiration class – so called because either their deeds or the ingenuity of their designers are milestones in RN history – will be equipped with the Sea Ceptor air defence missile system, a 57mm main gun and two 40mm Bofors, a 4D radar and carry a helicopter up to Merlin size.
HMS Venturer is expected to be in the water in December this year, with all five ships delivered by 2028.
And Mk41 VLS too according to yesterday’s announcement.
How tall is a MK41 VLS 3/4 floors?.If they were to be fitted where is that space somewhere in the middle of the hull in the picture above? answered my own question picture in header gives location: Royal Navy’s Type 31 frigates to be fitted with Mk41 vertical launch system | Navy Lookout
https://shipshub.com/upload/000/u2/f/3/iver-huitfeldt-class-frigate-photo-in-publ.jpg
You can see where they fit on this Danish variant – behind the mast.
Labelled photo of IH class. My best guess is that CAMM cells on T31 will be in the ESSM location on IH.
https://www.seaforces.org/marint/Danish-Navy/Frigate/F-361_DAT/Iver-Huitfeldt-class-FFG-05.jpg
Source: https://www.seaforces.org/marint/Danish-Navy/Frigate/Iver-Huitfeldt-class.htm
Great concentration of missiles for enemy targetting the ship!
I think the general idea is that any enemy targeting an RN ship will be surprised to see those very same missiles have left their tubes and are now closing rapidly.
Yes, and maybe NSM where Harpoon is.
Very odd that an article today don’t mention that major fresh announcement?
Particularly important as the SNP will probably say that it is planned to patrol Scottish waters with unarmed frigates….!!
Ah so this is what the rumours of the new Uncooperative class are about….
The rumour was that it was impossible to get them into service as the Scottish government who ordered them blamed Westminster for the delays and cost over runs.
Westminster say they have nothing to do with it?
Have I got that right?
More or less. Also the money had to be got out of the country sharpish. Bungs aside, I hear it was in suitcases filled with roubles 😂
Shirley you mean rubble sacks?
🤗
You forgot SS Slammed up.
😂
Don’t wish to pee on the ‘good news’ party ref MK 41, but, the RN doesn’t change designs normally until after hull 3 of any given class has been built. Can’t see this being any different, so, if I’m correct on this, T31 Hull 4 will be the first build fitted with MK41’s, then hull 5, while hulls 1-3 will have them retrofitted at the earliest opportunity.
As we don’t actually have anything to put in said tubes just yet (FC/ASM still in development and high on the wish list), its not an immediate priority. It also gives the powers that be, time to consider what we want to put in them, and to pay for them.
Sure
– Lots of things are tested and cleared to pop out of Mk41
– lots of things are integrated to TACTICOS
– if Uk is to have a missile export industry the missiles need to be able to pop out of Mk41
So, to me, it looks like part of a coherent naval/industrial strategy?
I know the UK has a very good ongoing ‘complex’ weapons programme, assuming we are not going to put Camm or any version into MK 41 silos, the only missile I see us currently producing to fit is FC/ASM when it eventually arrives. Most of the other stuff cleared for them is US built is it not?
Apart from the US made weapons. Aster can be fired from Mk41. The JSM was recently cleared, as the NSM can’t be fired by Mk41, due to its engine intake location. The Japanese Type 07 ASROC, S.Korean K-ASROC and Hyanmoo III land attack cruise missile are cleared.
I’ve no doubt that other weapons will become compatible as time progresses, although can’t see T31 being fitted with any form of ASROC unless it’s fitted with a sonar first.
When Mk41 is eventually fitted, it will change the dynamic of T31 capability totally.
Of course, then we will have to see what exactly UK PLC actually buys to put in those tubes.
That would be an interesting addition to its capabilities.
No doubt we will all get v excited when we finally discover what’s going in Mk41 too.
Thats not actually a bad shout Andy. Would certainly keep our adversaries guessing as to any units actual capabilities.
There is also the really big version of CAMM-XR that is under design with Poland.
That probably needs a bigger launch tube? So I could see a mixture of CAMM cold launched and say 8-12 of the XR version in the VLS. With the rest of the slots filled with Tomahawk style missiles. 8 NSM in canisters to round it all off.
That is quite a potent load out.
That gives the captain + WO a lot of options.
Yes, totally agree, its very intriguing to see what we eventually do put in all those tubes across both T26/T31.
In this instance provision is already there to fit Mk41 vls, just a case of getting the silos to the shipyard in time for fit out
So it seems, but what is actually not very clear is do the Mk 41 silos come at the expense of part of or all of the Camm farm tubes? They are being fitted in the same area, it would no doubt be preferable to have both. Also dont believe its a simple case of ‘slotting in’ some silos, still, might be a wrong assumption on my part there.
That is an interesting point, is Mk41 vls replacing the sea ceptor silos on the basis of quad packing? If not you are looking at a partial re-design to incorporate both and I can’t see that happening…..
No see comment above. Both are located in different parts of the ship. Cheers.
In 2021 at DSEI, Babcock had a model of Arrowhead/T31 on its stand. The fascinating part of the model is that the guys on the stand could swop modules around and change the nature/fightyness of the ship.
See link below:
(185) Babcock’s Arrowhead 140 Frigate at DSEI 2021 – YouTube
At 01:23 you can see amidships that there is a 24 cell CAMM farm and two quad cannisters for AShMs. This is purported to be what the T31 would look like, with NSM fitted. In the background are other fitouts. One of them is an 4 x 8 Mk41 VLS farm. There were some videos showing how these were fitted together.
I think the best option to check out is the Iver Huitfiedt frigates themselves. Where they have a centre Mk41 VLS, then a set of 2 x 6 Mk56 VLS either side. Then a set of cannister launched AshM in from of the VLS farm. Though they do have a large SMART-L search radar on top of the hangar, which takes up some of the available deck space.
Yes indeed. The mast where the SMART-L is located is retained on T31 so not extra deck space. Used for comms masts ATM.
No – Sea Ceptor is part of the basic fit contracted with Babcock, but so is the ‘hole’ for Mk 41 VLS. Will come with Sea Ceptor and then have Mk 41 added after commissioning.
The parent IH Frigates have MK41 and MK57 VLS silos in the same area so there shouldn’t be much of a problem having CAAM and MK41 there too.
That would be good news cheers.
Looking at the T31 CGI on NL the MK41 is clearly shown but in place of the CAAM VLS,now there might be some design work still to do on the correct placement but here is a good pic of the arrangement on the IH – https://twitter.com/SimonHoejbjerg/status/1164966345886314497/photo/1
But the Mk57s on IH are fitted where the boat bays are on T31
On one side, yes. There are three boat bays. Two one side and one on the other.
The CAMM farm tubes are located in a different part of the ship to the Mk41 vls cells. These are large surface combatants 5600 tons and are based on a Danish full fat frontline NATO frigate.
It demonstrates the wisdom of going for a large proven design with lots of growth potential. The Iver Huidtfield design has adequate wide margin to accept both the CAMM mushroom farm carried over from type 23s leaving service and the 32 cell Mk41 vls.
If you have a look at an overhead view of a IH class, you will see all the missele tubes located in the area between the mast and uptakes. Also located in that area are the canister launched weapons.
I’m not suggesting that we won’t have both CAMM and Mk41 tubes, it’s just not immediately clear as to the final arrangement of tubes on the T31.
WRF to your other post below, T31 might well have been designed with Mk41 in mind, but, it was ordered and built to a price -£250 mill a pop. All design drawings will have had a CAMM farm first, as there was no realistic way we were going to get Mk41 at the original build price.They are some $15 million a set of 8, and we are getting 4 sets per ship. That’s an extra $60 mill each before anything goes in them.
I doubt Venturer will come out with them fitted, as the area they are going will need some redesign work to accommodate both sets of wue keep the CAMM farm. I suspect the first 2-3 hulls might not have them on build, but receive them at their first refit. Only speculation on my part obviously.
Presumably, we both believe T-31 and (T-26) will ultimately follow an evolutionary path similar to T-23. As requirements change, predict the RN will respond appropriately, albeit on a resource constrained timeline. It is unfortunate however, that as a cost savings measure, RN opted not to implement radiated sound reduction measures; duly concerned for any non-stealthy, surface fleet warship, steaming in harm’s way anywhere near scum-sucking, slimeball PLAN fleet from 2030 onward. 🤔😳
In any event looking forward to the ‘flying mini sub’ on either SSN AUKUS or SSNX (the type displayed in ‘Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.’) 😂😁
Yes, pretty much what I think too. The announcement has certainly generated lots of ‘excitement’ not least with what might go in them! As HMS Glasgow won’t be ready for sea trials for a year or two, wouldn’t expect to hear what we are buying for them until later next year at the earliest. Suspect possibly a varied range of weaponry, but much will depend on their price when it comes to ordering amounts.
A lack of decent or intact any hull sonar is a serious omission, but, could be added at a later date. A bigger issue is who will operate it and where are they coming from? T45 sonar (utter rubbish system) has been put into hibernation to release manpower to T23 crews.!
The latest article ref ‘Mojave drone’ has also generated much excitement, unfortunately there is a general lack of understanding as to what they can actually achieve!!! Still, why spoil the moment with facts…..
‘Infact’
You’d hope that these type of announcements are done after having been approved prior to the actual build. There’s plenty of good space in these designs so that shouldn’t be an issue. One on the A140 variants (I think it the land attack version) has the forward 40mm removed and 2 MK41s instead and a 5″ gun. Having to wait until hull 3 seems another waste of time, money and opportunity. As someone else said, with the T31 getting upgraded maybe there’s no need for T32 yet, maybe a few more T31s instead? The T32 might morph into the MCM logistics support vessels. Who knows I definitely don’t. Lol 😁
As I said earlier, T31 is built to a price, which didn’t include Mk41 even though the RN probably wanted it straight away.
The RN usually waits to build up it’s experience and baseline all issues as new warships/SMs are built, before they start implementing changes. Adding Mk41 should be relatively straightforward if as indicated thought has been given to their installation, although some redesign work/alterations will certainly be required.
I hope they keep both systems and add a canister launched ASM is JSM. Would certainly up it’s capabilities immensely.
It’s ok. The iver huidtfield class design has Mk41 vls built into it, as does the type 31 from the get go.
It does not need a design change – was purchased as a basic-fit with ability to integrate new equipment after build. There is a great big space for Mk 41 left available, can be slotted in once ship is completed.
And you know that for definite because, you are part of the design/build team?
I imagine the drawings for below decks/or equipment fit for T31 aren’t readily available on the internet just yet, so, its not really clear if any changes are required or not, just speculation on every ones part, mine included.
Agree that there is ample space to fit both CAMM farm and Mk 41 tubes, problem is we don’t really know if we are getting both and if so how many CAMM tubes we are getting/keeping as renderings have shown 12-24 depending on which picture you look at.
I still believe its a reasonable assumption that some re-design work will be required to install Mk 41 regardless of whether we keep CAMM or not. Everyone can have a different view, in due course we will know doubt find out, just not yet!
This is a fake CGI picture of a frigate in build. There are no frigates being built in Scotland!
Correct. This is an armoured ferry.
In the water by December? They need to really get a move on unless that’s a very old pic?
UKdefencejournal Twitter post says in the current state.
My thoughts as well when looking at that picture. It could be that it is a month or two old, it looks very similar to the state of build when the ceremony for the start of work on ship two took place. Even so they are going to have to get a huge wiggle on to have it structurally finished and painted by the end of this year.
Seconded, based upon photograph. On the other hand, Babcock may be very motivated to deliver by current contract provisions, or presumptive future competition w/ BAE. Really thought that the intent of this contract was to keep hands, and new requirements, off the contractor, until the day after RN acceptance. Based upon humbling experience, change orders are the perfect mechanism to enrich contractors, the world over.
Any word if Type 31 will still have a directed energy weapon?
A DEW demonstrator (laser only for the Navy — the Army get an RF DEW as well) was expected to be integrated into a Type 23 later this year, “detecting, tracking, engaging and countering Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV)”. I haven’t heard anything else announced or whether it will go into to the T31 at some point. I assume they’d want to see the demonstrator before making decisions.
This isn’t Dragonfire, but I doubt that would go first on T31 either.
Cheers
They are getting phasers, photon torpedo’s and quantum micro torpedo phalanx launchers.
What are you smokin’ and drinkin’ these days? …. Lol 😁
Why are we using Babcock (again) for warship?
Only free warship yard but they’ve been geasring up for this a while. BAE Clyde fully occupied building T26 ASW frigates, Barrow building Astutes & Vanguard successors subs & HW Belfast to build our belated Resupply ships.
So what happens after launch? Will it go into dry dock at Rosyth for fit out?
With the Navy seemingly getting all the good news lately you got to feel a bit sorry for the Army and even the Airforce! Hope the Army gets some love and attention soon. ☺
The Army are their own victims, squandered billions when they could have just got a proven armoured vehicle and be done with it. Cv90 variants could have replaced the cvrt, warrior, fv4103 variants in service. They’ve only got themselves to blame.
Some new equipment will be good for morale and restore a sense of leadership, purpose and pride. A lot of European armies seem to be getting new tanks, APC/IFVs, light vehicles, artillery, and then there’s everything going to Ukraine too. Mr BW being an ex Army man should be batting for them a bit more. But a strong Navy very much needed at the moment for global reach and influence.
Now they are getting the correct armaments fit eg Mk41 vls 32 cell the MOD should definitely order a further 5 vessels. The RN has to get back into the big league with enough warships for tasking in peacetime and war, enough warships to be able to tolerate some attrition and ships in refit, training etc.
The RN to my mind ideal surface fleet composition would be
6 current type 45 destroyers to be replaced by 10+ type 83s
8 type 26 frigates, ideally with 2-3 more added now cost per hull is <800 million.
10 type 31s built in 2 batches with Mk41 vls ideally 2nd batch would be fitted with BAE 127mm 5 inch gun for NGS.
5 type 32s optimised for subsurface warfare mine clearance and littoral combat.
That's not pie in sky thinking, should be acheivable with just a small uptick in defence expenditure and personnel numbers.
May all if not some of your and our wish lists come true. 🇬🇧 🇦🇺 🇳🇿
A bit more clarity on timing of Mk41 VLS integration from HMS Venturer’s official Twitter account (in response to a question about Sea Viper (Aster)):
“No the Type 31 will be fitted with Sea Ceptor initially with Mk41 Vertical Launch System at a later date once delivered to the RN”
https://twitter.com/HMSVenturerRN/status/1659508678293086211?t=ptO2y89FHCTRROz342xTIg&s=09
Will the new ships still need the ‘mushroom farm’ design (which as I recall was only used because the CAMM missiles were too long for the legacy Sylver tubes)? Or it it too much work to adjust the Sylver design at this point?
Please don’t forget the Norwegian attack missile is being fitted to all current Frigates and Destroyers to fill the gap in our military weapons technologies.