The Ministry of Defence has awarded a major contract to Ultra Electronics Limited for the provision of five Sonar S2150 systems for the Type 26 (Batch 2) Frigates.
DE&S, a division within the MoD, has chosen a non-competitive negotiation for the contract award.
According to the Contract Award Notice, “DE&S (MCS – UEW), part of the Ministry of Defence, intends to conduct a non-competitive negotiation for the proposed award of a contract with Ultra Electronics Limited. The proposed contract is for the provision of five (5) sonars s2150 for the Type 26 (Batch 2) Frigates.”
Furthermore, the agreement extends beyond mere provision of the systems. It also encompasses “support to installation, set to work, testing, trials and scope-related tasking”, thus ensuring that the Sonars are correctly installed and functional in these state-of-the-art naval vessels.
The 2150 hull-mounted sonar replaces the Sonar Type 2050, which has been in service with the Royal Navy since the 1990s. The digital control of the outboard array, say Ultra, minimises interference and reduces ship cabling requirements.
I was under the impression that some equipment would be ported over from the Type 23 to Type 26 frigates. Now we are ordering 5 new 2150 sonars for the Batch 2 T26’s.
So what happens to the 8 virtually new 2150’s being fitted to the T23’s ? T31/2’s perhaps ? Or T45’s ?
Good point. Just checked Janes, HMS Portland was the first to be fitted with the 2150 sonar with all ASW T23s expected to be fitted during refits, Lifex etc. So I wonder what are we going to do with the T23 sets. As you say it might be an idea to fit them to the T31s-T32s.
Maybe the decommissioning a fitting out schedule for the T23/26 would not work. It does mean there will be a lot of very new 2150 sonar sets hanging around. It would be good to see those sets then used on platform ( T32 maybe ?).
… or maybe they plan to keep the T23s until tensions subside whenever that might be
To be fair I think the T23s are being run onto the very end anyway . Some of them are not getting through the Lifex. They only had an intended lifetime of 18 years…Argyll was launched in 89..had its lifex 2015-17..( when she should have retired in 2007-8) ..instead she will retire 2027-28…at almost 40 years old…over twice as long as designed….that’s profoundly knackered. Most of the last 8 will be close to 40 before they decommission even on present planning so there is no ability to keep them longer….
I suppose what I am suggesting is to mothball them just in case war breaks out. I totally agree they are not what we want in normal times however they would be more than a match some of the ex soviet scrap that in theory have not been decommissioned however have probably been alongside rusting for a long time. Building new hulls is time consuming and we might need something to bridge the gap.
Just another cash bung to British industry to keep them in business ?
Uh?
You mean buying the best sonar to put on the best ASW frigates…..
Actually the comment is so idiotic it isn’t worth engaging with.
Well said.
No mate. This is a case of the best product being required & directly ordered. Why waste time & money just going through the motions of tendering?
Nope! Next?
Are they planning to sell the type 23s despite the life extension?
I’m not sure there is a market for frigates at 2x design life?
The LIFEX costs have been horrendous and won’t get better with age.
It won’t worry Pakistan SB, they will get another 30 years out of them, only retired when the bow goes one way and the stirn the other and the keel straight down!
Ah yes, copy the Argentinian maintenance method!
Ah yes-rolling over while tied up in a Naval dockyard😂 Per the photo above-something we will almost certainly not see in reality, definitely not in my lifetime, but would make a wonderful line in a Naval Review(remember those)
Could make a few handy SINKEX targets for the new NSM and FCASW missiles as they come into service.
Quite likely TBH…..only if they are in a poor materiel state then they might come apart quite badly giving a false idea of BDR.
SINKEX targets are very carefully chosen as being very carefully surveyed in a good enough state to learn something from.
They will probably get sold to a South American country or Ukraine (if war finished by then) and serve on for another 10-15 years.
I suspect the t23s will be sold off and the sonars go with them.
If the state of Westminster or the amount of money it took to refit Iron Duke are anything to go by it’ll be very surprising if any get sold.
Big difference between flogging off a 10-20 year old frigate that’s not been worked particularly hard and ones that have been used and abused for 35 years!
Someone will still be interested in them. There are multiple countries where their navy is more about image than actually being able to achieve anything.
Failing that the MOD will pay for another refit and sell them off for less than the price, wouldn’t be the first that has happened.
Hmm, Monmouth and Montrose haven’t seemed to generate much interest yet!
As far as I am aware they are pretty well being run on for as long as practically possible, and in some cases that just isn’t feasible.
DESA has had an unspecified T23 for sale for quite a while, but no one seems to be interested.
HMS Monmouth was decommissioned in 2021 and is pretty well stripped of anything usable as spares for the others.
HMS Montrose decommissioned in April and will probably also be stripped.
Both of those were the GP version so no VDS and an older 2050 sonar.
HMS Westminster has had her planned refit halted due to the costs involved in extending her life to 2028. Uneconomic to repair I think is the expression.
So as you can see they are pretty well run into the ground until replaced.
Not bad for a hull designed for only 18 years.
Then its going to be interesting what they do with the existing kit, especially the newer added stuff.
4 T-22s still active, how do their state and age compare I wonder. They are still a damn good looking ship to my eye, indeed look cleaner and more modern than the T-23 if you ignore the old fashioned missile add ons.
Couldn’t agree more 👍
Also agree, T22 was a fine looking design.
This seems odd. We expected 8 going onto the T23s and 3 more for the T26B1s to make swap over easier. That would have left 3 over. Now are we to expect 8 left over? Perhaps they will no longer be fitted to all Type 23s, just Kent, Portland and St Albans. Maybe the rest will keep the 2050s until they retire.
Indeed .UKDJ reported less than 2 years ago that the first 2150 had been successfully installed and tested on HMS Portland. Not sure if all the ASW T23s have had it installed yet.
T45’s are not fitted with sonar
Not true, the T45 is fitted with the Ultra Electronics/EDO MFS700 hull-mount sonar
All sonars were removed from the Type 45’s a few years ago as a cost saving measure. They initially were fitted with sonar.
USNI have a good piece on the affordability of the Type 45 and what was ditched so we could afford them. Especially CEC
It was mothballed onboard. The RN did a similar thing on T23 with S2050 as well when maintainers and operators where in short supply. You gap the capability and note it on the Operational Capability Matrix.
So is this a different sonar to that going into the batch 1s?
Batch 1 and 2 Type 26 will have the 2150 Sonar.
T31 needs a hull sonar. Currently has no sub detecting sonar at all. What is an escort if it has no sub hunting ability? Merlins can’t do it if Wildcats embarked instead.
Could be very useful.
“As part of Ultra’s ‘Sea Searcher’ sonar range, Ultra has also developed two smaller and lighter weight variants of the Type 2150 Hull Mount Sonar for naval vessels up to 1,000 tonnes and 2,000 tonnes respectively.”
LINK
From Ultra’s website
The new hull mounted Type 2150 sonar incorporates a state of the art GUI to improve operator effectiveness and usability. The digital control of the outboard array minimises interference, reduces ships cabling, maximises reliability and extends array maintenance intervals out to at least five years. The sonar will be fitted to eight of the Royal Navy Type 23 frigates and Ultra has also been awarded the contract to supply this sonar to the first three Royal Navy Type 26 frigates currently under construction
Why does Type 26 have separate Sonar 2150 and Sonar 2087 rather than integrating the data from all the arrays?
Data from both Sonar’s will be integrated through the CMS surely.
Only tracks and contacts, not the acoustic data.
Different jobs. I suppose could use the Med Frequency 2150 as a transmitter for 2087 but why spend the time and effort doing it?
2087 LF Active for V long range and 2150 for medium range active…I say medium range but its still a substantial range capability plus the other capability’s it will have such as basic mine detection, torpedo warning and passive detection.
Integrate the data via the CMS and let the TAS Apes earn their money.
My understanding the US Navy fit the SQQ-89 Undersea Warfare Combat System, a separate system, but integrated with the Aegis CMS, which presents an integrated picture from its active and passive sonars, HMS, TAS and sonobuoys for targeting its ship, helo and ASROC LWTs
You get the same picture in RN Command Systems. As a PWO or Supervisor you don’t need to see the raw sonar data. You want to see where the Sub is so you can direct assets against it.
Its the same for the air and surface picture. Nobody sees or uses raw radar data anymore except on the bridge for navigation. In the OPS Room its blue and red icons with track numbers on a screen with a side window for bringing up target data.
Sonar 2076 on the Astute boats integrates data from all the arrays – almost always passive of course. Having separate sonar sets on Type 26 means different displays so more TAS operators are needed. There never seemed to be enough of them a few years ago – not sure of the current situation.
2150 needs 1 operator. Not sure on 2087 probably 3-4 including the supervisor. TAS SR in the OPS Room with PWO U running the battle on the Command System. So around 12 ish Tas Apes to cover defence watches is a ball park figure.
As you also need to integrate your own sensors such as EW as well as other units info via Link , surface units positions , Helo dippers, Ponys doing vectac and P8s you can only do that from the Command System where everything from all sensors ( and not just your own but other units and sources) is put together to give you the battle space picture
2087 has four ABs and the supervisor when fully manned. 2150 one leading hand.
I was best guessing well then! Worked on 2050 a lot and S2031 as well. I know that the 2 operators for 2050 is now down to one on 2150 due to the modernisation and better GUI. Passive there is not a lot you can do to reduce manpower…you still need bums on seats for the analysis and track building. You can only automate so much.
I’m just glad I’m not in navy anymore sick of the shit show lol