According to the 2022-23 Government Major Projects Portfolio (GMPP) Annual Report, the Ministry of Defence’s (MOD) Submarine Dismantling Project is advancing despite inherent challenges and unexpected difficulties.
The project retains an ‘Amber’ rating in the Delivery Confidence Assessment (DCA), an indication of its complexities and the persistent need for careful management.
The mandate of the Submarine Dismantling Project is to prepare and safely dismantle the first defueled and decommissioned Royal Navy submarine in Rosyth by 2026. Recognised as a ground-breaking endeavour, the project is learning by doing and, as a result, faces unique challenges that cannot necessarily be planned for. Nonetheless, the project is developing in line with its maturing schedule.
The project’s end-date remains steadfast, set to finish on 2026-12-31. The report explains that this date is founded on a maturing deterministic schedule, the feasibility of which will become clearer over the next 12 months.
When it comes to finances, the report provides an insight into the project’s monetary management. The financial year forecast of £33.18m represents a negligible budget variance of less than 1% from the baseline budget of £33.39m. However, the report notes a rise in the project’s agreed Whole Life Cost from £278m to £298m, primarily due to the need for an increased workforce and the impact of inflation on the cost of materials.
In line with other military capability projects, the Submarine Dismantling Project does not report cashable benefits, as its primary objective is to provide the armed forces with the necessary infrastructure.
So is that £298m the cost to decommission the first defuelled nuclear boat?
Perhaps the next boats will be cheaper to do. Will this becoming out of the defence budget or is it some nuclear budget?
Maybe ask NASA to build us a rocket we can fire into space and float off into the universe!
Have you seen NASA’s record? Apart from Space X nothing being built for them especially by Boeing is progressing well or in some cases at all. Even Starship in its NASA offerings certainly would barely have an Amber classification presently. And NASA are rapidly running out of Russian engined rockets to use even if they reverse their soon to be banned status for US military launches. The whole moon program is at risk presently and Blue Origin still can’t deliver reliable engines for New Glenn or Vulcan despite the launch contracts getting ever closer. Starliner, well that makes Ajax look like a model of accountability. We could always ask the Indians or Chinese I guess as Ariane won’t be available till they finally get Ariane 6 up and working years late.
No that’s the whole life cost to dismantle them all only the decommissioned subs. Dont think that includes Vanguard or Astute Submarines as those are still active.
What does any of that really mean?
A project with no properly defined timeline or plan is vaguely wobbling towards something happening sometime?
The difficulty is surely the reactor compartment and to a lesser extent the turbine area as the pipe work and turbine will have secondary irradiation.
The rest of it is pretty simple to cut up and scrap.
Mind you I’d be quite suspicious of the very early ones as safety didn’t trump security then and any leaks would have been covered up.
Probably why they are starting in the middle and have probably chosen one with the lowest contamination levels to learn on.
So decommissioned like the old Soviet nuclear boats….
Reactor section cut away at the bulkheads sealed and stored for many decades to come until it can be safely dismantled…..
I assume the first boat is HMS Dreadnought?
The over option is inducting them into Ukrainians drone program, pack them with explosives, refuel them and send them on their merry way!
Plenty of bang for your buck there 💥💥💥💥
I don’t think it is – I think we are trying for full dismantling.
I don’t think it is Dreadnought that us going first.
I think it is Valiant that us the first to be dismantled.
I would think Dreadnought (as an effective operational prototype) will be tricky to decommission …
What are the Americans doing?
Chopping the ends off sealing the reactor compartment and burying them.
Let’s do this as well and bury the rest in Wales✊😆
Isle of Wight mate…defo the best place.
Westminster seems the logical choice.
What have you got against the Welsh 😇🧨
Actually, We store the used sealed reactors out in the open for Russian satellites to photograph. Spent fuel rods are taken by railroad and housed in a cave that was dug into Yucca mountain.
I agree the Dreadnought would be very hard to do which is why they started with a V boat
Hms swiftsure will be first. I believe that it has just recently the SDP Dock at Rosyth.
UKDJ article 14 June refers to Swiftsure being the first to be dismantled
I was going on the basis of this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-60337177
Which may be wrong!
That refers to the first of the Devonport subs to be dismantled following the trial at Rosyth which presumably is Swiftsure
Good point – stand corrected
It’s Swiftsure first
Some of them are still fuelled. I’d imagine that refuelling those might take precedence
Tow them to the Russians northern areas and sink them there, then it’s their problem not ours
Except that’s a prime deep sea fishery that UK boats at least used to fish in. Seawater circulates around the globe, so radiation enters all our sea food too.
They have done some of that themselves
Deep six anything that doesn’t glow in the dark, and then scrap what’s left
Not sure why they all have to be cut up – if the subs hae been decontaminated and no longr pose a threat, and if any sensitive features have been removed, surely it would be both cheaper and give some of them as museum displays, for example at Chatham.
Then they need to be maintained.
They are large and expensive to maintain.
You would still need to remove the kettle (reactor) as it would be too contaminated to have sitting around in a port city.
Also, what is the market for viewing old SSNs? It must be limited and there are for sure more units than needed.
Maybe keep one of each SSN class?
OKkkkkkkk, the nuclear reactor can bring in those tourists, make Under Siege! a day trip
Note the ‘if the subs have been decontaminated’.
We didn’t do it for any of our battleships, which would have been a great attraction, much like.belfast is, not sure about the nimby’s reaction to a dised ussed nuclear Submarine just outside the town
Well, 7 of the un-decontaminated things are currently stored 5 miles outside Edinburgh.
HMS Conqueror sank the Belgrano. So Conqueror should be the museum boat. Can’t think of any other SSN to sink a large warship.
And I’m the Tooth Fairy.
That’s good to know. Always wondered what the tooth fairy did during the day time.
Turns out the fairy is an avid follower of defence.
I bet you give anyone in the services an extra coin or 2 if they lose a tooth.
What is the standard rate per tooth just now? Just incase ur really busy and I need to be a tooth fairy.
😆
About the same as an astute?
According to my kids..it’s a fiver but I think the 9 year old is being wildly optimistic….
Wow, a fiver! TBF I used to get 50p, rising later to a whole pound note. So with inflation and the cost of stuff now compared to the 70s….maybe they’re not too far off?
Blimey either you had a different tooth fairy contract or I was getting done…mine were only worth 10p each raising to 20p.
😄
🤣
This whole thing has been a disgrace to have decided to go with nuclear boats, and then what to do with them when you longer need one is something that we should have put in place years ago. The conventional submarines can be binned in the same way as a surface shi these old boats have been sitting there longer than they were in service, costing minions to keep them afloat. Not to mention any other preservation issues to be taken care of. Looking at the quality of modern conversational powered submarines, with the exception of speed, they hold their own. Cheaper, smaller crews, easily maintained and a saleable item. Billion pound astutes taking years to build, hyping them Up as we always do to any new class of any military piece of kit, unproven kit as as .well
I don’t agree mate.
The SSN is a strategic asset. We are fortunate to be amongst the few nations with the capability, and a blue water navy has these assets.
As quiet as the latest conventional boats may be, they cannot dominate a sea like an SSN, or, more importantly, hunt and tail other SSN and SSBN, which is a prime task of the Silent Service.
To me, our best ASW assets are our SSN, and we need more of them.
Some SSK for intell would be good but cannot ever see it happening?
Thing is, nuclear subs leave port and you don’t know where they are for months. Non nuclear subs don’t.
As someone that served on both diesel electric and nuclear your wrong rob. With nuclear your still limited to food provisions so the notion they can stay out indefinitely is just wrong
Can only say ‘wow’ to that!
60 -80 days. Seems long enough – and just about qualifies as ‘months’ – 2 and a bit.
https://www.ussjpkennedyjr.org/nuclear-submarines-how-often-do-they-come-up-to-the-surface/#:~:text=In%20most%20cases%2C%20it%20will%20take%2060%20to,then%20on%20shore%20for%20two%20to%20three%20years.
Non-nuclear limit seems to be 14 days
https://www.mtu-solutions.com/eu/en/stories/marine/military-governmental-vessels/underwater.html#:~:text=Submarines%20with%20diesel-electric%20propulsion%20generally%20have%20to%20surface,HDW%20Class%20212A%20submarine%20%E2%80%93%20is%2014%20days.
I’m not sure how many minions died…
Seriously though electric boats are essential area denial assets with very little strategic mobility…SSNs are the most strategically mobile platforms on the plant..nothing else can charge across the globe at 25+knots 24/7…the first platform you will have on site it an SSN..electric boats will not be able to get anywhere quick.
And if your charging across the ocean at 25 plus knots you would make so much cavitation noises and you could sail right under your enemy and be clueless. Faster they go the dumber they are
It’s called transiting..you don’t think HMS conqueror poodled along at 10kns the 8000 miles to the Falklands, listening all the way just incase the Argentinian navy happened to have a frigate mid north Atlantic for some odd reason….no it would have made its best speed to its operational area..so depending on where it was is would have spend thousands of miles travelling at speeds an electric boat could never get close to maintaining…when it got to its operational area it would have slowed down….if we suddenly need to send a response to say the pacific an SSN would use its best speed to get there…not drift along and listen pointlessly through 10,000 miles of sea.
Did you give your evidence to the Australians or indeed any others who can get hold of them. Sadly they have unique advantages even the latest conventional subs simply can’t match where those qualities are required. We still have those who condemn our choice of non nuclear carriers.
The report, is as vague as a vague thing, on st vague’s day.
Is the UK looking to come up with a way of decommissioning nuclear subs, in such a way that will enable the UK, to decommission subs for other nations as well?
The US and France already handle their own decommissionings, so who else is there?
Oz, or at least it will be from about 2050. But the US may well have more build capacity than decommissioning capacity too, so it it’s a possibility even sooner than that as long as we are allowed to repatriate the nasty stuff at the end of it.
Can’t see us recycling other countries, but France plan to use UK approach eventually so may be interested in our approach. And maybe even US will decide burying whole reactor compartment isn’t the best approach eventually.
Could save some money by put them by road side and stick a label “Free to a good home” 😜. Project will be finished by the end of this year.
Silly question… but are any bits of these subs recycled in anyway? There is lots of quality steel there and probably other useful materials.
Circa 90% recycled. Majority of the sub is recyclable, one of the benefits of the UK approach maximising the reuse whilst minimising the volume you have to send to radioactive waste disposal.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/submarine-dismantling-project
Dit on…
Refitted Brum, the first T42 out of base port refit in Rosyth in 85-87.
Dreadnought was parked in the corner of the basin all on its lonesome. Occasionally someone would appear on the jetty with some meter and a probe, take some readings, take a step or two backwards, take some more readings and then leave.
In the time up there, I don’t think anyone ever saw a shitehawk land on the casing. It was always pristine black with zero guano on it.
As in The Hobbit and the thrush returning to Erebor signalling things were getting better, the only time anyone will touch Dreadnought is when a Shitehawk lands on it!!
So, no surprises that they don’t want to cut it up yet until the process is well established.