Danish manufacturer Terma is set to supply another ten SCANTER 6000 radars to equip the last five Royal Navy Type 26 frigates.
The second batch of the Type 26 frigates consists of five ships – HMS Birmingham, HMS Sheffield, HMS Newcastle, HMS Edinburgh, and HMS London – and will be equipped with Terma SCANTER 6000 radars.
According to Terma:
“The SCANTER 6000 radar systems, to be supplied by Terma, are renowned for their exceptional performance in naval applications. These radars offer simultaneous detection capabilities for small targets, helicopter guidance, and large and small target detection at various ranges, including close and maximum distances.
The Royal Navy’s Type 26 frigates are designed to be versatile, advanced anti-submarine warfare warships and will serve as the replacement for eight of the retiring Type 23 fleet. Terma’s contribution solidifies Terma’s reputation as a key player in delivering cutting-edge defense technology and underscores the company’s commitment to enhancing naval operational effectiveness.
Terma’s track record in delivering advanced technology solutions for navies around the world, including the Danish, American, French, German, and Norwegian navies, underscores the trust placed in the SCANTER 6000 radar system. Its exceptional performance even in adverse weather conditions further enhances the operational capabilities and situational awareness of the Royal Navy’s Type 26 frigates.”
The agreement on the delivery of the radars has been contracted with German marine navigation manufacturer Anschütz, who is providing the complete Integrated Bridge System (IBS).
It’s good to see the long lead items for the last batch of type 26s going ahead.
Don’t get too carried away we bought the radars for the Wedgetails as well😂
That was just mean Jacko…..I feel sad…🤣😂🤣
Yes good to see forward thinking it’s a shame that future ships for the Royal navy will be built from inferior Indian and Chinese steel with demise of British steel making. I believe the plan is to import raw slab steel from India and China heat it up and from it in these electric arc furnaces, as you can’t make quality steel using this technology, and also calling it decarbonisation and green, I think not🤬
Good point around the steel, although you can make high quality steel in an electric arc furnace for instance Sheffield forge masters makes high quality steal for pressure vessels using an electric arc furnace…but you need a source of pig iron or scrap steel as a base material so a very very basic equation is:
iron or scrap steel + electricity+ EAF = high quality steel
the issue is that you need a source of scrap iron and steel..if you run out of this your buggered and it cannot produce some high carbon and specialty steels…but it is cheaper easier to set up in smaller units and has less emissions and it allows you to recycle all your used iron and steel.
blast furnaces on the other hand produce iron directly from ore and coke..you can also use to to make all grades of steel..
ore + coke ( blast furnace) = BOS or virgin steel
gets you virgin steel of many different type but costs a fortune in capital to get running, creates a lot of waste product and needs a source of coke and ore…
so EAF is great for diversifying and ensuring your sovereign ability is wide ranging with a number of smaller manufacturers…blast furnace needs to be the bed of your steel production….the reason we are loosing the capacity is capital costs and our governments unwillingness to invest in high capital cost strategic manufacturing.
Slant, just to say the bastards better stay away from the cenotaph remembrance parade. 😡
Water cannons should be avvilable.
I’d prefer to see good old fashioned wooden police truncheons being used.
Or just shot to kill. I think that’s fair enough if they disrespect our Remembrance Day ceremony. There’s freedom of speech but not when it comes to this issue. The fact any would-be protesters are even allowed to think they could disrupt the ceremony is because we live in a free and just society, thanks to the sacrifice of generations of heroic dead.
The metropolitan police need to adopt a no holds barred , zero tolerance and heavy handed approach. If they openly state any protest will be considered an act of terrorism and dealt with appropriately that might just make the woke moronic fools think twice.
So people who you disagree with shouldn’t be allowed to protest? Are you sure you wouldn’t be more comfortable living in Russia or China?
yes you can- but you also have an obligation to respect those who laid down their lives to ensure you will have the right to protest. This is day of remembrance – so say thank you.
As odious as I personally find anyone who supports the terrorist group that is hamas, and I must make the point that hamas and the larger Palestinians population are not one and the same. It is absolutely critical in an open and free society that people must have the right to peaceful protest. We can find their reason for protest completely repulsive but it’s important that we all have that right.
Sorry but is this not the same Palestinian population that on the night off 7 October were chanting and joyfully on the streets supporting HAMAS killing,raping Israelis?
Is that a serious question? You saw all five million Palestinians celebrating and supporting the killing of Israeli? Is guilt by association a standard that you keep for everyone including certain behavior by uk citizens throughout history?
Well in contrast I don’t see Israelis on the streets celebrating what they are having to do to protect themselves! We also had the disgusting scenes here as well are they guilty by association? You really can’t have it both ways if they didn’t agree with Hamas they wouldn’t have been out enjoying what Hamas was doing would they?
Netking you should consult Fatah areas mosque sermons for after 07 October and if PA will give money to the families of those that attacked Israel.
They pay terrorist families even those made by Hamas
the right to peaceful protest.,, one may suggest, that the violence at some, and abuse of the poppy sellers, strongly suggests otherwise. Just a observation..?
👍
in not questioning your interpretation of the situation. My point is purely around the choice of day. As was written below:
“Organising it on THAT day, as opposed to one of the other 364 days of the year is intentionally inflammatory, and is almost certainly going to cause disruption & confrontation”
That’s an extreme response. I was deliberately being proactive but my point stands. The right to protest and freedom of speech is only in place in the UK and democratic Western society because of the sacrifices made to protect it. Any protest that disrespects that or in anyway impedes remembrance Day ceremony should be treated as an anti democratic, terrorist action and an attack on our very freedoms that remembrance Day stands for. If the protesters don’t like that “control or advice” then I’d politely suggest they should look to move abroad to another country.
The protesters should be informed where they are allowed to protest or march too but precisely what won’t be tolerated if they take any action against our country’s right to remember those millions of young men and women who have fought and died or been wounded for our democracy and freedom.
It’s that simple. There is a line. They cross it and they should rightly be treated within the full force of the law as anti democratic and terrorist actors.
I respectfully disagree. Who gets to decide what is allowed to be protested. What happens when You want to protest something that is vitally important to you and you’re are told, sorry… that can’t be protested. Democracy does not work that way. The people we disagree with gets a voice too.
If it wasn’t for the likes of my Mother’s father my Grandfather who was killed at Arras in 1918 and her brother who was killed in 1944 and their Sacrifice for King country and freedom this country of ours would be a place where there would be no thought of having a protest march or speaking out about anything then again there would have been no mass migration to the UK either .we won the war but have lost the peace
Appreciate a different POV but i don’t think you are going to find a receptive audience here. Freedom of Speech is a right but it also comes with reponsibilities. Personally i didn’t have a massive amount sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo crew, you know you are playing with fire when you publish stuff like that. We all need to be mindful of others beliefs and sensitivities. And it goes the other way, the Pro-Palestinian crowd need to be mindful of the fact that its an emotive day for UK and just choose another day to protest. Easy.
“We all need to be mindful of others beliefs and sensitivities. And it goes the other way, the Pro-Palestinian crowd need to be mindful of the fact that its an emotive day for UK and just choose another day to protest. Easy.”
Fair and sensible.
Tell me, a British Intifada can start because all these Palestinian supporters provocations against UK ?
It seems that media justify all wars started by Palestinians(or any non western) even if just by a provocation, meaning the academia and media narrative allows Palestinians(and non western) to have symbolic sacred values.
Do you and the media allow the Western world to have symbolic Sacred values too?
It seem you do not.
It seems you would be much at home in a fascist police state like Russia. your views seems to chime with alot of the nationalist and Putin supporters there. one of the point of a free and democratic society is the right to protest> you might not like what theyre protesting about but they still have a right to do it in a peaceful manner
Get real. I’m massively pro democracy but will not tolerate any disruption to our remembrance Day ceremony. The protesters have a right to protest but unless they are deliberately trying to stock up racial tensions. Which they are. They should simply choose another weekend and respect the UK’s laws.
If you think because I don’t agree with your point of view that I’m a fascist then you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself who really is the hardliner here? Answer is…not me!
👍
Does that include pushing and Punching an old Veteran selling Poppys .Oh yes very peaceful .Real big people 🙄
Mr Bell, 👌👍👍
👍
If it causes ‘alarm’ ‘offence’ or ‘distress’ then it is breaking the law. Period. Read the Public Order Act.
Freedom of speech isn’t a carte blanche green light to act like c*nts. And comparing us to Russia or China is a pathetic attempt, and shows you’ve already lost the argument.
Disrupting one of the most sacred events in the British public calendar would, without a single solitary doubt, offend and alarm thousands upon thousands of members of the public. Maybe even millions.
Based on that alone the permit to protest should be withdrawn. Period.
Peddle the agenda in anyway you wish, but if ever ‘fuck about and find out’ was relevant – the remembrance parade should be the dictionary example.
Newsflash…. As much as it might offend your delicate sensibilities, people peacefully protesting is not against the law. I’m sure there will some c*nts involved who are looking for trouble and will break the law. We find those on all sides of most issues and they should be dealt with by the law. The fact remains that in a democratic society the ability to protest is a fundamental right that is afforded to all. I repeat, if you don’t like people who have an opossing opinion having the right to voice that opinion then yes Russia or China or Iran (I added a third just for you if weren’t into the first two) is a more suitable place for you.
I’ve served 3 tours on foreign soil sunshine. I don’t have delicate sensibilities.
Any other day they can crack on as they have for whatever cause they fight for. Free Palestine, BLM or any other movement for that matter. Go crazy. I’m all for it.
Organising it on THAT day, as opposed to one of the other 364 days of the year is intentionally inflammatory, and is almost certainly going to cause disruption & confrontation at some point, and therefore alarm or distress the wider public.
My first point still stands. Rights to free speech don’t overturn Public Order legislation. Period.
Ironic that I am not allowed to say I think the protest shouldn’t be allowed and should leave the country for a third world extremist shit hole because of it.
I’ll correct your comment…
In a democratic society the ability to ‘PEACEFULLY’ protest, ‘WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE LAW’ is a democratic right afforded to all ‘BY THE SERVICE PERSONEL THAT FIGHT AND DIE TO PROTECT THAT RIGHT’.
Don’t you dare tell me I should be in another country, because of a legitimate and genuine concern I hold, over disruption to the remembrance of the glorious dead.
We will remember them, my mates included, and whatever your ’cause’, you should either join in, or shut up while we do.
I’m sincerely thankful for your service and hope the larger society and country are eternally grateful for the sacrifices for those who chose to wear the uniform.
My larger point is democracies, this one in particular have faced down much tougher challenges than the c*nts who will take the opportunity to be inflammatory over this issue. For me, break the law, go to jail…..Peacefully protest, (even though I might disagree vehemently with your point of view and the way you express it), go right ahead. After all we might be in reverse positions the next time around.
Well said.
Translation of where we now stand in the UK, and which must be the way things are, because to even make a peep of complaint is being “racist”
The thoughts and beliefs of the majority take second place to the rights of a minority, in all fields, not just protest marches.
The silent majority will continue the stiff upper lip British fashion of looking on disapprovingly at events while doing nothing at all, while the minority get more emboldened by the year.
So, even if the protest organisers could quite easily arrange for said protest march on another day, as they will still make their point and it does not change one iota the situation in Gaza, they will schedule it on that day BY DESIGN, to make a point.
And to HELL what the rest feel about that.
Correct?
Hi Dainele, I’m sure your view of silent majority is common across western nations. Personally, I believe the Government should not permit any demonstrations on this day.
The hypocrisy of the protester is breath taking, disrespectful of those who gave their lives so that they may have the right to peaceful protest. A sad state of affairs.
It seems it’s ok for the rest of us to respect all faiths religious days! Yet it’s ok for these people to disrespect one of ours.
it actually beggars belief that a British citizen would protest over this weekend seeing that they probably knew grandfathers etc that went to war to protect these ‘rights’
well said Sir
I hadn’t read the new Public Order Act, so thank you for the prompt.
I shall no longer call a spade a spade. From here on in it shall be called an object prohibited under section 5(1) of the Public Order Act 2023 if carried with the intention that it may be used in connection with the commission by any person of an offence under section 3(1) or 4(1) of said Act (to wit, tunnelling).
Jon , I think you may be ok to get away with the noun “shovel” ? Please do seek legal advice first. 😁
hi Mr Bell, I’d like to see the protest organisers held legally responsible for the associated costs when they inevitably end up misbehaving. Why should taxpayers carry the costs when these rioters smash other peoples private property?
Make ’em pay a bond in advance – i.e. pay to march
You do realise the cenotaph commemorates more than the heroes; it commemorates the soldiers and civilians lost. Armistice day means the day of ceasefire and ensuing of peace is it not? What other day to protest than that?
Let us not forget that the dead died supposedly to ensure a more ‘just’ world, at least by the book of the allies. Would you say the civilians afflicted by this conflict are getting their just desserts?
Protest is a right of the British Public, even if Suella Braverman thinks otherwise, otherwise you risk having the right to claim to be a democracy. Well I question it right now.
As I wrote on another thread.
This Govt should order 3 more T26 now.
I’m not sure the Destroyer project is going to dovetail in T26 end dates, especially as production appears to be speeding up.
Furthermore, an incoming Govt might have different spending priorities and decide to review the project and cause delays.
B3 T26, would alleviate that.
Agree. With unit price down to <£800 million each now is the time to squeeze a few more ships out of the programme.
Totally imposible, for british políticians defence is not a priority.
Defence what’s that ,HMG 🙄
Agree but you know what HMG are like 🤔
At least you didn’t swear this time ! 😎
When did I swear?
Oh, might have been another poster with a similar name, Soz mate…. a whole bunch of comments were removed on another thread… my bad.
The delay in moving Type 83 into concept with no new advertised start date is getting worrying. Given the difficulty in designing a new class of complex warship we are unlikely to start T83 construction until well after the T26 construction starts to wind down. Whether we can afford to squeeze in an extra two or three Type 26 to fill the gap is open to question and to finances later this decade.
Lifex for the Type 45s is the next thing we need to plan (financially). There is no way they can start going out of service in 2035.
Have a read of this, it’s a proposal from BAe to RAN to capitalise on the T26 ASW build for what is essentially a very poweful AAW Destroyer.
https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/indo-pacific-2023/2023/11/bae-offers-evolved-up-armed-hunter-for-australia/
The T26 is when all is said and done a large, flexible modern design with lots of space and options. So why not just develop it for our use rather than an all new T83 design ? Folks tend to forget that a new, shiny purpose built design will take years and cost 100’s of millions of £’s which is then spread over the number of hulls being built.
Stalin said “Quantity has a Quality all its own”. Well we want both and that isn’t an easy ask.
We are building 8 ASW Frigates, I’m not going to use the well used political Buzz word but the fact that 32 variant being built (so far) suggests it’s an excellent design.
But by using 85% of the same build you can reduce overall unit costs, maintain the supply chain, ensure continuity and can probably afford more ships overall.
Agree Type 45 should be around for sometime, and they do have potential just need the government to invest more on this class.Hope HMG who is ever in don’t do a sell off .🙏 🇬🇧
I think there is plenty of time to plan for whatever the T83 ends up being,maybe 2030 till long lead items need to be ordered.Im not expecting the build process to be as pedestrian as that of the T26.
The Type 26 concept work was started in 1999. A four year design contract was handed out in 2010. A demonstration phase ran between April 2015 and June 2017. Long lead time contracts came in 2016 and the first ship will be operational in 2028, 29 years after the concept work began.
The first concept phase for Type 83 hasn’t even started yet. Realistically, we have to get through Concept (2 years minimum), Competition and Selection (another 2 years-ish), Detailed Design (4 years+), and Agreement & Contract (1-2 years). Not to mention that we are currently on a project hold of 2 years and counting. Even if we start concept work immediately, if it goes like Type 26, the long lead contracts won’t come until 2040.
Still think we have time? Google “Think Defence Type 26 Global Combat Ship (GCS) History”. That’s the real world. But don’t get too depressed. I’m sure we can do better this time.
They managed to get T31 sorted quickly enough. Granted, that was a nominally off-the-shelf design but still…
I’m really looking forwards for more info on T83. It has the possibility, if HMS Bristol is anything to go by, of being a truly world-class escort above and below the water. Bristol was an alright ASW asset and a good AA by the standards of the time.
I am currently imagining T83 as larger than T45, same number, but able to provide a one-man escort as a core of a carrier group in much the same way as Bristol, perhaps permanently attached to a carrier with synchronised maintenance
That sound about right to me, HMS Bristol good Vessel for her time with the cancellation of the Carriers sadly RN receiving just one .Would say T83 if it ever comes to function should have a Displacement around 13-14.000 tons.Giving it AA, ASW capability .Now that is what I call a warship .HMS Bristol very fine looking ship .👍 🇬🇧
Well if T83 ever comes to function for me a Displacement around 13-14.000 tons .With AA and ASW capability ,now that’s what I call a warship.For HMS Bristol fine ship for her day sadly RN receiving only one has HMG at the time Cancelled the new Fleet Carriers.HMS Bristol was a real fine looking ship looked the part. 👍 🇬🇧
I’d suggest this is a great discussion; if this Govt signed up to order an additional three, I’d suggest lessons learn from the Canucks and Aussies could be toyed with.
Alternatively…
B3 Rivers 😉
T45 are currently spending 3 years having pretty comprehensive refits that I think should be viewed as a pre-emptive lifex. The hulls have not done much work over their short lives so should be good past 2035. An idea I have been thinking over is retaining the T45s past T83 introduction with whatever new missiles are in service as BMD assets that would just float (on very short deployments to keep crew and maintenance down) around the British Aisles with small missile loadouts.
Interested in anyone’s opinions on this idea or potential alterations
Well if the T83s come along and T45s still Bobbin up and down sounds good to me 👍 🇬🇧
If T83 ever comes along and T45s still in service sounds good to me 👍 🍺
BAEs Air Warfare version of Type 26 proposed to Australia: https://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/news/bae-unveils-upgunned-hunter-proposal
Each Type 26 will have a medium-range Artisan 997 radar, two Terma Scanter 6000s and a SharpEye radar.
Labels on diagrams describe the forward Terma radar as surface surveillance, the aft as helicopter control. The SharpEye is described as a navigation radar. Does anyone have a link as to how this mix of radars will be used in practice, fleshing out these descriptions? It seems unlikely that the rear Scanter radar will only be used to control helicopters, doesn’t it? What distinguishes a navigation radar from a surface surveillance radar?
The SharpEye for Rivers is described as working at dual frequencies (S and X band) and being capable of helicopter control. Are the Scanter and SharpEye radars used differently on the Rivers, which have no missiles?
The more important question is are all three radars fully fused with the EO and other EW data too.
There are very good reasons for fusing the full sensor picture.
Given the present level of tensions I doubt that will, rightly, come into the public domain.
Sharpeye is a fully digital but mechanical scanned pulse doppler radar. It designed to be fully integrated with a ship’s CMS. It can operate over the X-band and S bands. It is a fairly low powered radar. As it uses X-band frequencies it can detect very small objects in the sea against heavy clutter.
Terma Scanter 6000 is also an X-band pulse doppler mechanically scanned radar, that is also designed to be fully integrated with the ship’s CMS.
Both radars are described by their respective manufacturer, as surveillance radars. They can both detect very small UAV drones from 5km away, detecting larger objects all the way to the horizon. Both radars can be utilised to coordinate helicopter approach, take-offs and landings to the ship. Both can incorporate integration friend or foe (IFF) waveforms. However, the Sharpeye with its S-band transmitter will detect objects further away.
The main differences between a surface surveillance radar and a navigation radar are resolution and tracking abilities. A navigation radar can be either a pulse or continuous wave radar. In its most basic form, it’s used to highlight surface obstructions, like coastlines, marker buoys etc. It depends on the available money, on how much performance the radar has. Some can also provide weather information, whilst others also includes outputs to a the ship autopilot, for waypoint steering and hazard missing.
A surface surveillance radar is more expensive, as it will do this as well as provide moving target data. It can provide much better mapping information, as its signal processing is better. Scanta for example will show objects that are moving by providing track information that gets updated on every sweep. On a display, you can highlight certain objects to keep track of it. Again depending on the money available, the radar multiple target tracking, as well as provide predictive tracking.
The antenna is mechanically swept in azimuth and has a fixed elevation. Due to the antenna width being fairly wide but fairly low height of the antenna. The beam shape is fairly narrow in width, but wide in height. So the beam will detect airborne target, but only up to say 5000ft. It won’t be able to provide precise height information, only range, bearing and sometimes velocity information (depending on money spent on the processing).
To an extent both Sharpeye and Scanter can do each others roles. However, with Sharpeye’s additional S-band transmitter/receiver, it can provide further detection range as well as other data such as longer range weather info.
Thank you for that. You’ve boosted my radar knowledge yet again. 😀
Scanter and Sharpeye provide complementary back up to each other and the 997 in the surface environment and to a lesser extent the air picture..
The RN had issues previously with its main radars surface performance for nav and sea safety during things like gunnery exercises (996) . Surface contacts where missed and rounds came down close to yachties!
For Helo work it allows you to do controlled approaches to the vessel in poor weather with very limited vis. The Helo controller can talk the helo down to the flight deck using the radar and helo fitted transponder to enhance the helo approach to the vessel.
For nav the resolution of the radars is excellent as is its close in to the ship performance. Long range isn’t everything when you need to ID a buoy a few 10s of meters away from ships head at night in fog. The Radars will feed into things like the AIS and ECDIS systems giving radar overlay on bridge displays. The CMS will also take the outputs from the radars track extractors to give input into the CMS.
Cheers GB, hope the Dakari’s aren’t getting too boring? Does make you wonder how much longer mechanically scanned radars are going to be in use. Pretty sure AESA panel arrays will replace them. Especially as AESA panels can also provide a target’s height information. Thus giving the ship more flexibility and capability. Plus being AESA based, it will have a significantly better target resolution due to the much tighter beam.
Excellent post Davey B -really informative, thank you.
if you don’t fix the leak, it will start to pour , our white/yellow spineless leaders will destroy 2,000 years of history if we are not very careful.
just saying like.
Your culture is your culture, it defines you. Don’t let anyone take it away from you .
Did anyone see that hillarious video on YouTube? It was by a very slow speaking American man who witnessed a load of woke young American women wearing make up and short skirts at a pro Palestinian protest whilst wearing mistakenly Taliban flags.
Because there is nothing the Taliban like better then Western young women, wearing make up and short skirts, protesting on the streets.
Just daft. Right to protest. Absolutely.
My right to point out how frankly daft they are. Also guarenteed.
“Racist fluid” .,.now that was funny…