Ajax, the British Army’s troubled new generation of armoured fighting vehicle, has been put through its paces during cold weather trials in Sweden.
The British Army say here that service personnel from the Household Cavalry Regiment (HCR) based in Bulford, Wiltshire have successfully demonstrated the Ajax platform’s capability to operate in extreme cold weather, and fire on the move with accuracy.
Major Robert Gardner, Ajax Trials and Capability Development, said:
“We were aiming to prove that Ajax works as effectively in these conditions as it does in a temperate climate, therefore allowing it to be deployable all over the world. The live crew clearance showed that the turret is safe to use, and also demonstrated we lost no lethality or effectiveness whilst operating at extremely low temperatures.”
Major Robert Gardner concluded that ‘over the trial Ajax demonstrated itself to be very effective in this environment’, he said:
“We’ve seen no drop in its effectiveness compared to those in the UK, which is really positive. And now we’ve proved the cold climate, the next step is to prove it in the hot weather this summer, and at that point it is essentially proven and deployable in all situations.”
Am I alone in taking this with a pinch of salt? Only after real service for a few years will we know its reliability.
It’s probably being pushed a lot harder and longer than it will be in service! That’s the whole point of the trails to try to push them till they break.
Okay so what in your book is real service?
Servicing neglected and not cleaned very well and unf bolts put into metric threads. lol
Are these the bolts on special offer from Screwfix? It’s just that my sister-in-law’s friend’s dad says those are just as good as the ones the Army use, and if they weren’t afraid of picking up some Black Friday bargains, MOD would be able to afford a complete IFV to replace Warrior for £206.99, including the walkie-talkie from ToysRUs.
ToysRUs you can’t beat old school thinking.
Screwfix and tool station bolts are made in China , Babcock did source some substandard CR2 wheel nuts that cracked and fell off after the 700 Nm was applied and substandard bearings which resulted in a new quality standards regime after some flapping about reputation damage!
It’s called RGT, reliability growth trials. These platforms are hammered a lot harder than in service vehicles to find out what breaks, when and why.
Will they be be bending idler arms and cracking idler wheels like on CR2 then ?
Oh! I expect so, you know what Squaddies are like👍
Ah, you’re suggesting they put salt on the ice? Cunning. Still, s’pose at some point we’re going to have to give these Ajax trials benefit of the doubt. Now likely as good a time as any.
Blimey George….. It’s hard enough to keep up on just one new post, let alone so many all at one time mate…. please spread them out more equally…. 😄
After so long in the making, not to mention the costs, hopefully Ajax & it’s variants will be amongst the best of their type(s) anywhere in service 🤞
It will be a relief to everyone if this kit is effective. Perhaps we will be all complaining they haven’t built enough before long.
A very good idea, the commonality of parts springs to mind as I have mentioned many times before on here. Poland Partners with South Korea to Develop New Armored IFV from K9 Howitzer Chassis. Citing information released by the Polish Ministry Of Defense, the new tracked armored Infantry Fighting Vehicle based on the tracked chassis of the K9 155mm self-propelled howitzer fitted with a ZSSW Remote Controlled Turret System.14 Aug 2023 Equipped with a 30 mm Bushmaster Mk 44/S gun, the turret is capable of firing ABM ammunition and can be upgraded to a 40 mm calibre. Additionally, it boasts… Read more »
Hi Nigel, quick request, would you be able to refrain from copying and pasting entire articles into comments here? The reason I ask as it’s generally bad form to reproduce the work of others in the same link as a source from elsewhere. Cheers.
It’s strange how you choose to mention this now George, as I have been doing this on here regularly for the past five years, as have others????
Perhaps you might consider advising Navy Lookout and other military websites to do the same, or even ban posters who make veiled threats as they tend to do.
As previously communicated, this practice contradicts our website’s policies, which have been established not only to comply with copyright laws but also as part of our efforts to enhance our site’s search engine optimisation (SEO). SEO is about optimising our content and site practices to improve our visibility on search engines like Google. High-quality, original content is crucial for achieving this, and reposting content from other sources can negatively affect our rankings and, by extension, our overall visibility online. Despite our previous discussions and your clear awareness of these issues, it has become evident that there has been no change… Read more »
“Despite our previous discussions and your clear awareness of these issues, it has become evident that there has been no change in your approach. This stance, which comes across as confrontational, undermines the spirit of cooperation we strive to foster within our community. It is important to clarify that this policy has been uniformly applied; other users engaged in similar practices have been asked to cease this behavior.”
I no longer comment on this site George, 2, check your dates, 3, who allowed the post you refer to as I am under moderation.
Problem solved then, take care.
A troubled start but will be one the best vehicles on offer when operational, As will C3 , it just takes time to get there.
It certainly does and hopefully not too late! Defining IOC and FOC for Ajax “On 20 March 2023 the Defence Procurement Minister Alex Chalk set a new timeline for Ajax’s entry into service. It is now expected to begin to enter service in the latter half of 2025, with a full operating capability towards the end of 2029. In 2011, the MOD was still expecting what was then known as FRES-SV to enter service around 2017. However, by the time of contract award in 2014, this shifted to July 2020. The contract was reset in 2018. In September 2020 the… Read more »
Just needs some export orders now
I trust you are right Martin
I hope I am, we as a country can make the best kit in the world, we just do not make enough of it or up date it.
Agree.
The sooner this and the Boxer gets into service, the sooner we can retire the Warriors, preferably in the direction of Ukraine.
Seems plausible. They haven’t been given any Warriors yet I don’t think, but they do have Bulldogs and Scimitars.
George, think of another adjective, not “troubled”, it’s old now.
Oh Dear, I hope this vehicle is not too heavy as experience with CH2 in Ukraine is raising eyebrows. The CH2 is just too heavy on open prairies if the ground is wet, as I just witnessed watching a brilliant Sun on YouTube. I would hazard a guess the true weight of CH3 will be greater than the current machine, leading me to believe this may not be an exclusive problem for UK-made tanks. Call me daft but should the Army be looking at smaller MBTs that sacrifice weight and gun type for greater agility? 45-50 tons would allow for… Read more »
The war is not really rewriting the manual,both sides have failed to establish any air superiority,it has been reduced to an old fashioned slug fest just like the old days.
Bloody sure it’s being rewritten according to military experts.
Trench warfare,massive artillery fire!missile attacks instead of aircraft bombing civilians,deadly but hardly cutting edge is it? Drones are the only modern thing about it!
The territorial performance of CH2 and Abrams should be well known by now. The rainy (mud) season is about to start in the Ukraine. It will make no difference how much any tank weighs, nothing moves in that season.
I doubt if the inoperability of CH2 in wet conditions has been recognised. Not all MBTs fall victim to mud only those that are obviously too heavy. If were a war planner such facts would be of huge concern.
From the footage I have seen the ground in Ukraine gets so soft and water-logged (Spring Thaw) that even cars and trucks get bogged down, it is like a quagmire. Any MBT/AFV has no chance in those conditions
Absolutely no lack of evidence of t72s getting stuck in mud in Ukraine (image from a 20 second Google search to follow in a separate comment). A T72 btw weighs about 4 tons more than Ajax, so using Maurice’s (wrong) conclusions about weight: Ajax will operate where T72 can not.
Oh and let’s quickly acknowledge that Russian 40t tanks are no faster than British 60t tanks. Off road there are distinct limits to how how fast you can go.
What Ukranian mud does to “Superior” lightweight Russian tanks:
https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/107048901-1650460959423-gettyimages-1239689362-AA_02042022_674095.jpeg
Pretty much the same ground is being fought over between Ukraine and Russia, as the Nazis were doing with the USSR. During WW2, Tiger 1 tank crews would test the solidness of the ground. By one crew member carrying another piggy back fashion on the ground they wanted to cross. If they started sinking, the ground was too soft for the Tiger. The only vehicle I know that could cross such ground with relative ease, would be a BV206 or similar. I’d expect a Viking to cross that ground, but being a lot heavier than a 206, I do wonder… Read more »
It’s not weight. It’s ground pressure. Anyway in Ukranian rainy season even light vehicles bog down.
Just FYI: the British Armys main Armoured Warfare training facility for the entirety of Challenger 1 and 2s life has been an open, muddy Prairie. I can attest first hand that CR2 was just fine on that.
Sadly the Sun video tells a different story one of underpower and weight….simply undeniable evidence. If the answer is horses for courses then the UK army needs a mixture of battle tank weights and sizes similar to those used in WW2.
Maurice I’ll take my own experience over a Sun Journalist thank you. Tanks get bogged down in mud, as does every vehicle, I’ve sent multiple replies explaining this to you but you’ve ignored them. Let me put it another way: You’ve watched one video of one tank getting bogged in, and come to a bad conclusion because you don’t understand why tanks bog in (as you’ve proven by constantly complaining about weight, when as I’ve pointed out: It’s not weight, it’s ground pressure that is important) [Plus if it’s the article I think you’re talking about it’s worth pointing out… Read more »
Just watch the video. Obviously, wet ground conditions compromise many vehicles but CH2 appears to be underpowered according to Ukrainian tankers, which exacerbates the overall dynamic concerns. Due to the CH2 issues it appears they are being used in certain conditions only, which is not ideal. A lighter footprint is the answer if NATO MBTs are going to make headway east of Germany.
Sadly a lighter footprint will not provide the same amount of protection. as the presumption is a lighter tank, will have less armour. As a vehicle’s mass change’s, the vehicle’s ground pressure will also be affected, especially if the vehicle’s tracks have the same contact area. To stop an armour piercing fin stabilised discarding sabot (APFSDS) or Fin for short. You need a number of factors. The first one is material density. Having a denser material means it takes more energy for the Fin’s dart to push through. Another is effective armour distance, such as spaced armour. With darts now… Read more »
Very impressive post DaveyB, such a complex business making an ideal MBT but technology must take a grip of core weight and lighter additional armour and countermeasures. The only short-term option could be tracked Boxer or 120mm equipped wheeled variant?
CR3 is just one tonne more than CR2 as produced at the factory according to RBSL.
Be interested to know how they cope with the TES applique armour fitted. Plus the CH3 will be getting the uprated suspension and the engine mod. So in theory, it should be able to cope better than a Chally 2.
I don’t see why CR3 would have any issues with TES applique, if CR2 didn’t.
‘cope better’?
I think it should cope better as it will have the upgraded suspension, drivetrain and a bit more power. I know its getting upgraded hydropneumatic suspension. So does that mean the arms are new and therefore tougher?
All AFVs will have trouble in the Rasputitsa, especially those with high ground pressure. CR2 has a 1200 hp engine which gives it less P/W than Leo 2 but has superior suspension, so I doubt cross-country speed is very different. Anyway speed is not the main issue when tackling mud – although entering a large patch of mud at speed would be better than a slow entry speed – it is ground pressure. CR3 top speed may exceed that of recent versions of Leo2. Upgraded hydropneumatic suspension for CR3 – I haven’t seen the details. RBSL just says ‘3rd gen… Read more »
Keeping a lid on weight must be an ongoing headache.
Yes, it is. Just like civvy cars, successive military vehicles seem to have become bigger and heavier than their predecessors. Ajax is an extreme example!
The weight spiral just has to end.
We certainly need to think about having a medium tank in addition to CR3, for fragile terrain, ease of deployment and supportability etc and to some extent to mitigate against having such a small MBT fleet.
Whilst the Americans do not wish to call M10 Booker a light tank, that is effectively what it is.
To fight successfully MBTs will have to be varied machines to allow commanders choices for environment and ground conditions. The current designs have not allowed the MBTs to work effectively during winter months in Ukraine. This has led to stagnation on a scale not seen since WW1. One option for the UK is to bolster the Tank Regiment with 120mm Boxer, if such a vehicle is in the pipeline. I’ve seen some variants with big guns but not sure if they are concepts only at this stage?
Deep glutinous mud experienced in late autumn, and early Spring in eastern Europe (Rasputitsa) have often caused stagnation of warfare…for centuries. [Winter conditions have also been treacherous for warfare due to snow and ice and sub-zero temperatures]. Wiki: “Rasputitsa has repeatedly affected wars by causing military vehicles and artillery pieces to become mired in the mud. In conjunction with the general conditions of winter, rasputitsa has been credited with encumbering the military campaigns of Napoleonic France in 1812 and Nazi Germany during Operation Barbarossa” Anything with high ground pressure, be it heavily laden men, wagon trains, trucks and AFVs –… Read more »
Until we find materials that are easier/cheaper to produce and has better protection properties that armoured steel. We will keep having this increase of mass issue. As weapons, in particular APFSDS get better kinematics and performance against armour. So you have to have more armour mass to defend against these improvements. Ajax is a case point. It’s armour protection levels are supposed to be better than when Warrior has its TES fitted. Which means protection against 30mm Fin rounds front and sides and number of HEAT types. There may be light at the end of the tunnel. The Israeli active… Read more »
Of course there are choices other than Rolled Homogenous Armour in one thick plate – spaced armour, composite armour, ceramic armour, Chobham-type armour. But these are probably not cheap to make. Iron Fist has beena round a while and sounds impressive. Wiki: “In May 2011, the system intercepted kinetic energy penetrators and Metis anti tank missiles during a test in the U.S.” I think there is merit in having a medium tank in addition to the MBT, particularly as we will only have 112 CR3s in 3 Div. I think you were referring to the US M10 Booker. It is… Read more »