In a written question submitted by Baroness Goldie on September 11, 2024, regarding the future deployment of HMS Tamar and HMS Spey in Southeast Asia, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed that the Royal Navy will maintain its presence in the region.
Responding to the query on September 25, 2024, Lord Coaker, Minister of State for Defence, stated:
“Yes, the current intent is to retain a persistent forward presence with HMS Tamar and HMS Spey in the Indo-Pacific. The ships regularly engage in activities with Southeast Asian states, including participation in military exercises, maritime activity with the Five Power Defence Arrangements, and defence and diplomatic engagement.”
This announcement reaffirms the UK’s commitment to maintaining security and enhancing diplomatic relations in the region, particularly through continued maritime cooperation and participation in defence initiatives such as the Five Power Defence Arrangements.
HMS Tamar and HMS Spey are Batch 2 River-class offshore patrol vessels of the Royal Navy, designed for long-term forward deployment in the Indo-Pacific region. These vessels, named after the River Tamar in England and the River Spey in Scotland, have been deployed to support a range of missions, including military exercises and diplomatic engagements.
HMS Tamar and Spey have participated in various operations throughout their deployment. In 2023, HMS Tamar operated off the Australian coast and South Pacific, conducting exercises focused on seabed warfare and mine countermeasures. HMS Spey has also been involved in regional missions, including providing relief to Tonga in 2022 following a volcanic eruption and tsunami.
Both ships are highly versatile, with the ability to undertake a variety of roles, from humanitarian assistance to contributing to international security efforts. Their deployments have included joint exercises with regional and international partners.
The long-term deployment of HMS Tamar and HMS Spey in the Indo-Pacific is part of a broader strategy to enhance the Royal Navy’s ability to respond to emerging challenges in the region. Their presence provides the UK with greater flexibility and influence, while ensuring a consistent contribution to maintaining peace and security in international waters.
good to see the new government has not really changed its policy around the Indian Ocean and pacific region.
Hopeful it will continue and when the T31s are commissioned they will take over and the rivers 2s can be used close to home.
My understanding is that the River batch ones will be decommissioned around 2027/28 and Spay and Tamar will return home and fill their void, by which time HMS Ventura will be close to setting off for the Indo-Pacific but there’s plenty of time for things to change, plus further delays to the T31’s may occur?
That may have been the plan in 2020, but anything beyond 2025 is currently pure speculation. But the forward basing concept has clearly been a huge success operationally, and important popular with the ships crews – they really do get to “see the world” and visit exotic locations, but know they will be home after just 4 months. There seems to be assumption that the current defence review will cancel the T32 (aka T31B2) project, but perhaps some River Class Batch 3’s will be ordered instead. This will keep the Babcock Rosyth shipyard open until at least the mid-2030’s, and… Read more »
The new government is very serious about conducting a real defence review (perhaps too serious) but they won’t be preempted on any policy decisions beyond NATO and AUKUS.
I agree they are serous around the defence review…but this is where it gets interesting..because defence reviews should not lead policy, hight level policy should lead reviews. You cannot have a review without clear policy..or what are you having the review about ? What the review should decide is how you actually achieve your policy on defence..so how many ships and when and how you use them…
That is way to sensible for woke socialists politicians to grasp. They approach reviews with the aim of directing money to social programmes that buy votes. With Two Tier at the helm national defence is headed for the rocks. Anyone care to wager on what will be cut first?
One of the Carriers sold/mothballed, further reductions in the army strenght, only 3 AEW for the RAF will be ordered, no more f35 B orders, withdrawal of batch 1 thyphoons without replacement , of course forget the type 32 frigate etc.
I think you have hit all the main points except cut backs in the training budgets.
No carrier will be sold, there’s nobody to buy it. 3 AEW aircraft has been the (unfortunate) plan for years already, batch 1 Typhoons were already on the way out and nobody knows anything about the T32 yet.
I would add one carrier to be parked up, possibly sold. LPDs scrapped. The first batch of rivers to go early. Batch one Typhoons to go early. Lots of stuff kicked into the long grass. Like replacement of big ticket items. The Bays, The points. New helicopter order maybe cut or very slow delivery programme. Pumas axed early. Some RFA sold or scrapped.
Probably an accurate prediction Micki. I don’t think they’ll sell off one carrier(being strategic assets), likely to go into extended readiness -i.e un crewed reserve.
19 surface warships will be it – no Type 32 .
Indeed. The fact that the government has set up a portal to invite random opinions about fundamental questons that should already be a matter of policy is quite alarming.
Hopefully the Type 31s won’t take over from the Rivers at all, costing twice as much to do a presence job only two-thirds as well. We need fighty ships doing fighty things, such as forming the escort part of the LRG(S) and in the case of Venturer taking over from the T23 in the Gulf.
Let the Rivers keep doing what they are already doing very well.
Jon it’s very likely that at some point after 2027 the indopacific is going to turn into the worst shitshow since WW2, with very real chance of strategic surprise. We want fightingships in the pacific from 2027 both as part of the wests deterrence package and for the simple reason they may need to fight their way to safety across a 11,000mile battlefield.
We agree that the T31s should be there, but I’d argue not as presence ships. They need to be war focused. Let Tamar and Spey continue to turn up at Pitcairn, Tonga and Papua New Guinea. Let them help out as Kiribati sinks beneath the climate change waves. They don’t have to be plying the South China Seas or navigating the Straits of Taiwan if it’s all kicking off. The Indo Pacific is huge and there’ll still be presence work to be done from South America to East Africa.
If we had adequate patrol vessels at home I would agree, but how water defence has become very big and we really need ships for that, the rivers 1s are simple fisheries protection vessels and not suitable and are also old and will be gone by the end of the decade. So we need adequate home waters patrol vessels that are capable of monitoring and protecting infrastructure..that means, they can carry and launch air, surface and subsurface drones…in the end the Rivers 2 would be good at that, so we will need them home doing serious work protecting underwater infrastructure… Read more »
The B1s are overspecified for what’s needed in home waters. We could happly use something like three Cape Class at £35m a pop, new. Getting some second hand could cost half that, or throwing in with Border Force for their requirements could add economies of scale.
Replacing B1s with B2s and B2s with T31s is the equivalent of using up a billion quid’s worth warships for £50m worth of need.
But in really what does HMG need to be doing in the pacific from a defence point of view..it has zero need for a OPV in the pacific as HMG has nothing to patrol..apart from a totally pointless rock with around 50 old people living on it. The only security concern for the UK in the pacific is to help deter a devastating world war focused around china and the U.S. ..and OPVs have also zero deterrent value…proper warships contribute to the balance of power in the area…the deployment of the OPVs in the pacific was a place holder for… Read more »
What are we doing in the Pacific? Remember the Solomon Islands case where China was trying to get a naval base? If you ignore countries they will shift allegiance to the power-blocks that don’t. Small countries have the same votes in the UN as larger ones. We need to be there for them so they’ll be there for us. We have a historic link to many of the Commonwealth countries in the South. Australia has taken over the burden of much of that, but we really should be pulling our weight too. This can be seen as obligation AND opportunity.… Read more »
Agree.
Mate – a lot of nervous Aussie politicians (left and the right) over China’s expansion in the South Pacific. NZs position remains somewhat European 1930’s- appeasement. We have it on authority that beyond Taiwan, China has no further territorial demands! 😆
Yes but, that’s what I’m saying the preset OPVs are fine place holders but they are not the capability you want for strategic engagement…nations understand the difference between a nation appearing in a region with a place holder and a nation providing serious capabilities..china has not turned up in the western Indian Ocean with a long distance OPV it does port visits with a small flotilla of warships. People are actually forgetting the plan, the OPVs were never permanent, they were there until the escort numbers were returned…going ohh well we don’t need escorts to do the pacific work is… Read more »
One size does not fit all. We should not be sending the same ship for a strategic engagement with the Maldives as with Japan; nor for naval exercises with the United States as exchanging anti-smuggling best practices with the Senegalese coast guard. There’s a whole slew of countries for which a T31 is too big or too much of a statement. Whether that’s because their infrastructure can’t handle it, their coastal vessels are too small to take advantage of exercising with it, or those worried that engaging with a British warship would send the wrong message to China. For every… Read more »
Quite possibly so but just how long a solitary T31 would last is debatable, it’s a lovely cuddly, Politically nice expression of support. But in a real “shitshow” it’s just like the pre WW2 Far East Fleet it’s “cannon fodder”. I make no secret of being Sub surface orientated, but they have their limitations but just 1 Astute forward deployed in Australia is all the presence needed (and it’s in the AUKUS plan so non negotiable). I’m also a realist and given that any increase in the surface fleet beyond that presently planned is unlikely I would keep out Frigates… Read more »
In reality, what that 31 would be doing if it kicked of would be running hard..but what it will have is the radar,soft kill, AAW and AAW guns to fight off any attacks it may suffer beyond the first chain islands..if it was caught in well inside the first chain on its tod, like any single escort it would be dead..but as long as it was not deep in the first chain it would have a chance of running..later it would be a decent escort to integrate into surface action groups for the first campaign, before any other visible RN… Read more »
just thinking re the upgunned B2 rivers….consider how the French and Italian navies are balancing their fleets for the 30s Italy is going for a more diffused set of capabilities with every ship able to participate in the long range area AAW battle as well as the ASW battle. 2 13,000ton very high end AAW heavy destroyers with ASW capability, ASuW and land attack. 2 7000ton high end AAW destroyers with ASW capabilities. ASuW and land attack 8 7000ton high end ASW frigates with long range AAW capabilities, ASuW and land attack ( limited) 4 7000ton GP frigates, long range… Read more »
Getting three replacement OPVs of 2,000 tons with say two by 40mm and two by 20mm guns plus 32 CAMM would be possible to replace the B1 OPVs.
Deployment options would be one to Pacific and two to the Middle East with overhauled B2 OPVs replacing the B1 around the UK with two 20mm guns and 32 CAMM added during the overhaul.
I must agree with you Jonathon. The Indo-Pacific is a powder keg awaiting a spark. With several belligerents willing to provide that spark at a time of their choosing. The number one threat has to be the evil CCP and if Trump somehow fails to win the election. I’d bet my pension on a major war before 2030. If Harris wins, we could see Taiwan and others invaded next year before AUKUS is implemented. The US can deter them but the current administration, president/VP are clueless and weak. I honestly can’t see our woke Two Tier socialists taking a hard… Read more »
That’s why an Astute SSN is proposed to be based in Oz although how we do that with our numbers is a valid question. Keep the Batch 2s out there doing some excellent but low key work and send the first Type 31 to the Gulf region.
Replace the Batch 1 Rivers with something perhaps similar in size but with the ability to use drones for above and below water surveillance?
Maybe as suggested above what the RN needs is a solid patrol frigate for places like the Indian Ocean and safer parts of the pacific. That’s is what the two other big European navies are doing. Italy is going for 2 Ultra high end 13,000 ton essentially cruisers for its CBG 14-16 high end escorts 7000 ton AAW/ASW/ASuW 12ish bog standard GP patrol frigates at 5000 10 patrol craft with a small ship fight, medium gun. With the B2 rivers, looking to 2030 maybe they should be used as they were designed for patrolling home waters and maybe the North… Read more »
Umm…er…what exactly is a pretend patrol frigate? 🤔 Not certain that category has a NATO classification. 😉
It’s the class of ship you get when you go ohh we need a patrol frigate…then accidentally on purpose end up with a powerful ASuW focused 6000-7000 ton large surface combatant…
The RB2s were absolutely not designed for patrolling home waters. They were designed for global deployment, because the B1s, despite occasional trips to North America, were just a bit too uncomfortable when continent hopping. Having successfully tried out HMS Clyde in the South Atlantic, the 90m length was deemed just right. Also because BAE said they were designed for global deployment and as the designers they should probably know. HMS Trent already seems to be doing just fine in Atlantic Patrol (North), as will Medway when it gets back again. After all that’s one of the roles they were actually… Read more »
Indeed. Used to keep patrol ships in Hong Kong prior to the handover and these constituted a useful presence in the region.
Deterring CCP expansion into the Pacific seems perfect use for the T31s. River B2s deter nobody.
It’s one of the often forgot and rare good news points of the RN we have no frigates debate that we have a fleet of 9 OPV’s and most of them are deployed around the world. When we had 30 to 50 frigates and most of them were little more than barely armed patrol vessels like the T21 having them on jollies across the pacific was fine. Now frigates are billion pound cruiser sized vessels they need to be kept closer to home. Looks like there is not much hope of T32 now so hopefully we can keep the B2… Read more »
Not really a patrol frigate is not the same as an OPV and the threat level was different as well. Your average RN patrol frigate in the 1970s would have 1 medium gun 4.5 inch ( AAW capable), a couple of light AA guns ( 20-40mm), some from of SAM, maybe heavyweight Antiship missiles, hull mounted sonar and a way to attack submarine contacts including a small ship flight. a rivers OPV has a 30mm light gun, that is it.
Going back to WWII, a large proportion of our escort fleet comprised small Destroyers that couldn’t even be considered ocean-going.
The Type 21s had a 4.5 inch gun, a Wasp or Lynx helicopter, Seacat, Escorts and torpedos with a torpedo launcher. They weren’t barely armed patrol vessels.
But the Rivers are doing an excellent job and armed appropriately for their tasking. Ideally we would order replacements for the batch 1s instead of expecting T31 to pick up the slack. Building some fresh Rivers could be good for keeping Appledore going.
*exocet not escort
Should be upgraded to a 40mm Bofors or even better a 57mm Bofors both are being fitted to the Type 31.
At least a 40mm Bofors, as the Navy lookout peice on the T31 states that the Bofors needs 30% less maintenance than a 30mm, so crew levels would not need to be upped.
Just the 40mm and possibly upgrading the radar would endow the Rivers so much more security, especially if combined with a marine detachment with LMM.
AA
I wonder why the Arafuras never got their 40mms, or is that still on the cards eventually?
They are based on a design that features the 57mm Bofors so maybe they should have stuck to that.
With 30% less maintenance than the 30mm I wonder what the numbers would look like for total 10 year expenditure of 40mm vs 30mm if HMG took an upfront hit to drive replace all 30mm in the RN with 40mm. With 40mm already introduced with the T31 thus currently needing logistics and support for both 30mm and 40mm I would hope that as well as reducing maintenance on individual guns it could also give other savings by completely dispensing with 30mm logistics (parts, training etc) and maybe economies of scale for parts and ammo purchases by having it all 40mm.… Read more »
Off Topic, it seems a Japanese destroyer sailed through the Taiwan Strait this week for the first time and two German ships earlier this month
Something which is interesting is that the Navy didn’t want these Batch 2 Rivers: yet they have been super useful. Contrast to those programmes like Ajax where the end users provided all the requirements and it’s a massive mess! Shows the value d&eas delivers!
A pity that they are just armed with pop-guns!
The Navy top brass were in a very difficult position with the B2s because the Government had to order something because of the contractual tie up with BAE. However, if they had been better armed then they would have been faced with a battle with its most implacable enemy. This is not the combined fleets of Spain and France, The German High Seas Fleet or even the combined navies of the Axis but HM Treasury. They would have proposed the 5 vessels ordered were actually light frigates and we would not have the 5 Type 31s. Budget allocations would have… Read more »
On the subject of British ships forward deployed in the Asia Pacific region, spare a moment to remember HMS Thanet (H29).
In Hong Kong on the China Station on 8th December 1941, Thanet departed after the Japanese assault of the city had begun, and reached Singapore. From there on 26th January 1942 Thanet, accompanying HMAS Vampire, sought out and engaged the screen of Admiral Ozawa’s invasion convoy off Endau. This was an aggressive intercept in the face of overwhelming numbers, something you might not have known happened in this region in early 1942.
RIP to those lost.