Naval guns made by a British company are fitted to almost all United States Navy and Coast Guard ships yet to hardly any Royal Navy vessels, the Treasury Committee has been told, the UK Defence Journal understands.
The claim was made at a Treasury Committee evidence session on defence spending and finance on 3 June 2026, which questioned three experts on how the UK funds its defence and on the relationship between the Whitehall departments that approve defence spending.
Andrew Kinniburgh, Director-General of Make UK Defence, gave evidence alongside Lucia Retter, Assistant Director for Defence and Security at RAND Europe, and Max Warner, a senior research economist at the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
Kinniburgh raised the example as he argued that there was British defence industrial capability the United Kingdom was not making use of. He pointed to MSI Defence Systems, based in Norfolk, which makes naval guns. “They’re on hardly any UK ships, they’re on US ships, US naval ships, and Coast Guard ships, almost all of them,” he said, noting that the Royal Navy instead chose the Bofors gun, made in Sweden, for its vessels.
The point formed part of a wider argument that the UK has untapped industrial capacity that could be drawn on as defence spending rises, rather than the country needing to build capability from scratch or import it. Kinniburgh said there was capability in British companies that was not being used domestically, citing the guns as one illustration.
Asked whether such a firm could quickly scale up to supply the Royal Navy if it won an order, having reached its manufacturing capacity making guns for others, Kinniburgh said it probably could do so without much difficulty. The volumes produced for the United States were so high, he said, that the additional quantity needed for the UK would be relatively small by comparison.
MSI Defence Systems, known for its naval gun mountings, makes small-calibre stabilised mounts of the kind used for close-in defence against small craft and other threats. Kinniburgh’s account placed its guns across large numbers of US Navy and Coast Guard vessels.
I think I read somewhere that they’ve stored a load of 30 mm guns away and, for some reason, they’re not fitting them. An example is the QEcand PoW that are designed to take 4 each of these guns but, they’ve never been fitted. Why buy new if we’ve already got a stockpile of the things?
I do recall that ‘close range’ was quite a labour intensive WE department and have wondered if the reason for not fitting them is a lack of people (with knowledge and experience) to maintain them? If so, a detachment of RMs could do the job with a bit of direction from a PO. Again from dim and distant memory, the Royals were good in this role.
I wonder if they will be putting them on the type 26.
So the msi mount, not what the MK44 bushmaster II? Both are not exclusive to naval platforms. The Terrahawk Paladin is the land variant. Slightly misleading.
Fitted for, but not with, is the stupid expression used. QE and POW very poorly protected
Apart from the human cost of losing the crew how much national treasure would be lost not only if a carrier is sunk, but is lost with all F35s and Helicopters. Did we learn nothing from the Falklands about arial threat and how fallible missile systems on air defence can be.
This is reckless almost criminal negligence and can only end badly.
If not a pair of 40mm they could easily put these four 30mm where they were designed to go. The three Phalanx’s and 4x30mm is exactly same armament as on HMS Ocean so why is it so hard to replicate? A pair of marinised RapidSentry LMM launchers might be useful too. And why not upgrade the T45s with these latest 30mm if also going on the T26s and FSS’s? Why no Paladin or Tridon for the UK land shorad? Are people asleep to all this?
If not a pair of 40mm they could easily put these four 30mm where they were designed to go. The three Phalanx’s and 4x30mm is exactly same armament as on HMS Ocean so why is it so hard to replicate? A pair of marinised RapidSentry LMM launchers might be useful too. And why not upgrade the T45s with these latest 30mm if also going on the T26s and FSS’s? Why no Paladin or Tridon for the UK land shorad? Are people asleep to all this?
*sorry for the duplication. Bloody irritating.
Say again ?
Again
and Again
Halfwit makes me less annoyed
Agreed
It is extremly vexing
The Govt / Treasury / MOD are trying to spread the butter too thinly and exposing our increasingly stretched forces to danger and us
I would like the people to march on Whitehall to show them they are letting us down and also one of the last industrial sectors which provide £££ to the UK (exports and revenue)
So shortsighted Wake up and also cull the increasingly large MOD
From what I understand, even though the LMM mount on the bustmaster RWS was successful on the Type 23, it was concluded that the back blast plume was to blame damaging the area. I imagine it would be the same on the rapid ranger. I would like to know if Thale would have considered an ejection launch or a small booster module like on Starstreak in it. I guess that would ho against the cheap factor.
And looking at the QEC, the mounts are located near doors or are in confined areas. They might need to either use their engineering skills to thinks of a solutions like a deflector. Or create better mountings that are have more space.
Was the back blast issue was ever formally acknowledged as it seems to have been based on a photo either on here or Navy Lookout?
Arrows point to the UK Ministry of Defence’s annual report on major projects for the financial year 2022/23-Q4 with the information bust couldn’t find a link. The amount of articles that say “a 2023 report has said that it not been deemed successful due to efflux management issues on the Type 23”. It’s helpful that they link the report instead of going down a rabbit hole. I’m on my phone at the moment, so it is a pain to do research on.
And looking at the QEC, the mounts are located near doors or are in confined areas. They might need to either use their engineering skills to think of a solution like a deflector. Or create better mountings that are have more space.
MSI defence makes weapons mounts. Most of the guns used are US made Bushmaster cannon.
AEI Systems, ,now Turkish owned, holds the design rights to Rarden cannon and makes actual guns in different calibres, typically with low recoil forces like the 30 mm Venom.
So none of this answers the question, why?
Are the RN gold plating again where good enough would suffice?
What are the reasons?
My question would be if MSI are so good at making mounts why don’t they try to move into larger calibres? As the gentleman says there’s no particular reason why we need Sweden to design naval guns for us, but unless we give them an order there is no reason for MSI to try to break into the medium gun market. We produce our own barrels and shells so we would have complete flexibility in the calibre chosen and MSI’s reputation could win them exports over the expensive Bofors.
Their expertise seems to lie in making mounts that are fairly easy to retro fit without major alterations to the vessel itself. Large calibre guns will be deck penetrating with complex ammunition storage and feed.
I would like to know which senior naval officers thought it would be a good idea to have 3 different calibre main guns on our 3 surface escort types.
Not needed anymore.
All UK Killer Tomato’s were exterminated years ago.
And if they do come back, we can just get George Clooney.
Aaah, The Return of the Killer Tomatoes.. Classic !
DM,
Although never officially acknowledged by MoD/RN, one could presume that some form of imputed cost accounting factored into the decision process. Real decision will occur when HMS QE or HMS PWLS is next deployed to the ME theater. Personal speculation: Some leadership misjudgments/shortfalls are apparently tolerated during peacetime, but are virtually guaranteed to be closely examined and judged after the fact, should preventable damage or loss befall a RN capital vessel during foreseeable combat operations. Unfortunately, the results of a naval Board of Inquiry and/or Court Martial may be only cold comfort to the survivors.
I live two miles away from them and drive past regularly on my way into the city. So naturally I think it’s an awesome idea to give them masses of work