Aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales commissioned into Royal Navy fleet

See I land on the pro-Brexit side of things but I certainly agree the US is no friend of ours and will never play fair. They’re racketeers and extorters and they can’t be trusted in a pinch, at least not since the end of WW2

And why I would argue that membership of a huge EU economy is beneficial to Britain. The USA will pick off our industrial base (what’s left of it) piece by piece. BAE is effectively an American company…and not allowed to be known by its full title lest it causes upset!

Spot on

Of course till the 2nd WW British finsnce institutions owned a large percentage of US industry all, like our half share in Ford of Britain surrendered just like so much of our intellectual property as part of Lend Lease. Effectively by staying in the war long enough so that they and Russia could win it we lost our place at the top table while enabling the US to dominate the post War World that Trump is so keen to return to. No surprise therefore I guess he sees exploiting us for all he’s got as reflecting and repeating that former tactical triumph.

On another note it’s ironic to see a Country so keen to put tariffs on EU products in response to its objection to ‘illegal’ Aircraft subsidies when it so unashamedly uses ‘soft’ power, or is blackmail more appropriate, to enforce supposedly independent nations to buy its products or else, no matter the actual visit or quality. This sniffs of the F111 Australian debacle with the long term strategy to limit targeted countries defence industries development and ensure they are politically dependent and docile for years to come. And of course Boeings commercial products are substantially cross subsidised by its massive Govt sponsored defence business. One presumes Airbus’s keeness to expand its own military side is it’s response to this long term US duplicity that has long threatened to erupt big time as Airbus has grown to match Boeings commercial sales. With the US having over 50% of world defends exports and Lockheed Martin larger than all European based defence companies combined you can see the stakes the US is feared to see threatened. One wonders the effects on its industrial base if it ever were and if Japan becomes part of Tempest it could make it a very serious competitor in the long run especially in Asia.

“And why I would argue that membership of a huge EU economy is beneficial to Britain.”

A fading one, with the growing markets elsewhere!

Global Villages and all that?

I keep quiet on Brexit these days but if others are still banging the propoganda drum then cannot be left behind can we.

And by the way, I agree with the posts on American behaviour.

A balance needs to be sought, as our link to the USA Intelligence wise is vital, as is US involvement with NATO.

Go take a cold shower.

Not quite true – there have been instances of the US buying British kit in preference to domestically produced stuff. The British Hawk trainer Was bought by the USN And now serves as the Goshawk. There are other examples of UK kit in US service. 15% of F35 is built in the UK.

So the picture is not as simple as all that.

I was disturbed to see the US trying to bully Turkey into buying their SAM system. Their approach was very high handed and only served to push Turkey more into the Russian camp. If tge US does not trust Turkey why was it happy to sell tgem F35? It strikes me that this WAS all about making money.

I’m not sure anyone with a knowledge of business was expecting anything but a two way street when it comes to trade. Remember though that the US does a lot of business in the UK which they won’t want disrupted.

when we talk about US business in the UK, what we really mean is US companies extracting revenue and profit and UK companies and IP being consumed. I will believe America really cares for the relationship when I see US companies building hardware in the UK or better still, America importing UK goods and services. Not sure I’ll see that, not whilst “MAGA” is order of the day. I think any trade deal will be negative to the UK – we are already seeing that for internet tax avoidance, pharma and most likely agri/food sectors. What next?

It’s been said above, but weakening the relationship with Europe when the only economies which make up for it are USA and China, is total folly. We have the sharks swimming around us now

See my above comment on the Goshawk and T35….

If you come to the States, visit the 8th Air Force museum and memorial gardens in Georgia.

Oh yes, I’m sorry. What Mr Reeves actually meant to say was thank you so much for saving us in World War 2. Britain would have fallen to a Nazi invasion if you hadn’t been around, good thing Germany declared war on you so that you were able to come help us. I think the complimentary intent of his comment must have got lost in translation.

” Britain would have fallen to a Nazi invasion if you hadn’t been around”

Not sure about that. Hitlers eyes had turned east before the US became involved.

The RN, and the RAF, were still intact to stop invasion.

What saved Britain from Invasion was actually the Soviet Union.

What ifs are often difficult to judge. However, without oil, food and other raw materials from the USA in the early part of the war, we may have had to come to some agreement with the Nazis….and drop out. Albeit, that we had to bankrupt ourselves in funding the materials that kept us in a fight for the freedom of the Western World….quite nice of us!

I would clarify, what saved Britain was a mixture of our own geography (the sea is the sea even if it’s a narrow bit), the fact we actually had the political and cultural will to fight (cough…third republic) and finally the overriding nazi political dogma which insisted that land was taken from lesser races ( lucky us, that we did not hit the lesser race criteria or have a lot of land to steal). Remove any one of those and we would all (including America) be living the thousand year dream.

Russia was always the aim, all other nations were just stepping stones or obstacles to be knocked out. Hitler and his leaders gambled that they had done enough to knock the British empire and commonwealth out of the game for long enough to destroy Russia (always the main aim).

It was unlucky for them the lesser race just happened to fight as hard as they did and that you can’t get around geography or winter.

Totally disagree, what saved the UK from invasion was the defeat of the Luftwaffe at the Battle of Britain. The Luftwaffe quickly realised they had bitten off more than they could chew, especially as we were starting to out-produce Germany in the number of aircraft and pilots that could be sent to the “Front”. The German high command understood without control of the air, their army would have been decimated.

What is not said about the BoB, was the tremendous losses faced by the then bomber command flying Fairey Battles, Bristol Blenheims and Vickers Welligtons when attacking the ports around Calais destroying a significant number of barges that were supposed to be used for the invasion.

There was also the small issue of the Home Fleet sailing south from Scapa, doing basically a suicide mission to destroy the invasion fleet. Realistically the German Navy could do nothing to stop them, so it was reliant on the Luftwaffe to control the skies and seas for the invasion. Due to the BoB this could not be guaranteed, so it was cancelled. I do believe that Operation Sealion was a hastily put together side-show, as the High Command didn’t expect their forces to gain so much territory so quickly. Besides, Hitler always had his eyes on destroying communism and expanding the Fatherland eastwards, so that was his real focus.

Thank god for that …. Davey I applaud you, another accurate depiction of military history by someone, other than myself, that has read around the issue and clearly knows his military facts. Thank you for posting the truth.

Congratulations on your reading ding dong. I can recommend a very good Masters Degree in ‘War and Reconstruction’ ….the one that I did some years ago! Without US aid in the form of essential supplies such as oil and aviation grade aluminium, we would have been up shit creek without a paddle.

Germany did not have a hope in hells chance of invading britain. What might have defeated us was from within. The defeatests ranged against Churchill. It is not just Spitfires that won the Battle of Britain (or the attempted invasion), it was the will power of people like Churchill. France fell because it was corrupt inside.

“what saved the UK from invasion was the defeat of the Luftwaffe at the Battle of Britain.”

I agree.

What I meant, and I probably worded it badly, was that had the Soviet Union not either defeated Hitler or embroiled him as it did, the Germans could have come back and finished the job. During 41 their air fleets were dispersed to Crete, Africa, and the Soviet Union.

Indeed, the hero’s of the Battle of Britain prevented air superiority being gained, which would have spelt problems for the RN.

I do not think the German airforce would have had any better luck if they had returned. If anything we would have been better prepared… more planes, experienced pilots, improved air defence and ULTRA.

No I think they gave it their best shot at the BoB and failed.

Please can those of you that no zero about the military history of WW2 stop commenting. Britain was at risk of invasion upto September 1941, after that our aircraft production, tank production and small arms production started to outstrip Germanys. By 1942 we were militarily never going to be able to be successfully invaded by Germany.
We won the Battle of Britain on our own, in what was cruelly our finest hour. Even if we had lost the battle of britain and Germany had tried to invade I think the strength of the Royal Navy would have made the maintenance of an invasion force on UK territory very perilous indeed. The RN could control the channel crossing points and sink anything in the channel for a week or 2, admittedly at terrible atritional cost, but we would have prevailed.
Yes Hitler turned east against Russia, but he realised beforehand that prosecuting attacks against Britain was costly in military lives and material and was futile. He hoped after September 1941 that we would seek terms for peace or be brought to the table by unrestricted submarine warfare.
Britain was never saved by America or Russia. We were too strong for nazi germany to try to invade. If you dont believe me just google wartime industrial output germany vs allies and you can rapidly see that end 1941 we had overtaken Germany in all forms of military production.

10% of RAF fighter command pilots in the battle of britain came from Czech or polish units. Yes important contribution never going to say anything against those brave men continuing the fight for freedom, but the majority were from Britain or the commonwealth.

No need to go that far. The American cemetary at Madingley near Cambridge or the D Day cemetary at Colville Sur Mere above Omaha Beach are moving testament to the young men of the U S

Moving the goalposts again.

Brexit has nothing to do with being simply a Trump US / UK Trade deal, no matter how much the Liberal Left wish to turn it so.

It is fascinating to see.

People who voted leave did not have that in their minds in 2016.

Really not sure what you mean. An Anglo-American Trade deal is everything to do with Brexit. By its very nature it has to be post Brexit as bilateral trade deals are not permitted. If we are leaving the EU to take advantage of the big -wide world out there, how can a trade deal with the US not be part of it.
‘People who voted leave did not have that in their minds in 2016’. You are absolutely right Daniele, the question is, what exactly was in their minds other than immigration? I suspect there was very little in their minds other than a farcical game of pin the tail on the donkey!

I don’t think so Andy…they probably had no idea about such matters, and cared even less….

And once again……Golly gosh, we all soooo wish we were as worldy and educated as you!

And there you go once again, patronising and be-littling those who think different than you, and continuing to make out your of a far superior education level than those who had chose to vote leave. Your sad superiority complex does seem disturbing.

Let yourself down a bit last time…didn’t you. I would stick to your area of expertise…However, I have noticed that you have recovered from your dyslexia. Excellent sentence structure, advanced use of punctuation and, altogether, at least Level 3 communication skills. Of course, that was also evident before you lost it over my, fully justified, accusation of bullying in the last thread. Some time ago we had a contributor by the handle of Rear Gunner Richards (Daniele will remember him…they got along quite well). RGR made some appalling comments about a young female Army recruit that had been abused by her male colleagues. He justified himself by claiming that he had been abused as a child. Get my drift…you can run chum…but you can’t hide. People notice!

So easy to reel you in, you bite so easy, froth fume and cannot do anything but reply! Oh and I didn’t need to bluff, I am what I and I achieved all through dedication and hard work! You keep reading the books and I will remain the content!

Apologies for the short reply, pressed post prior to finishing my reply! I love your replies, they are so presumptuous and subtly nasty, with your misplaced arrogance and self righteous attitude. Middle class but not quite there, but always thought you should be better. And never presume that others lie, just because it may come easy to you. Please reply as us working class peasants do need your educated guidance to make sure we do as expected.

Lost it again! Just don’t learn, do you? Class A Pratt!

You make this far to easy, try harder oh aged one! And class A Pratt? Ah the thin veneer of left wing civility! Keep going grumpy keep us peasants educated!

Morning.

“Daniele will remember him…they got along quite well)”

I do remember him Herodotus. And Captain Pugwash! Another arch enemy. I try and get along “quite well” with everybody if I can, even if I disagree with them. I did not care for some of RGR’s comments, but they were not directed at me, and he was always friendly enough.

You should try it. Another poster here, Sole Survivor, I have great respect for, and I find his detailed explanations fascinating, and even compelling, even though I fundamentally disagree with his support for Corbyn.

It might also surprise you that I support a free Palestine. Hardly the stereotypical image of a right wing Tory, Brexit voter.

I have never thought you were stereotypical in any respect. When a contributor starts to argue that ‘women that join the armed services are asking for it’, I feel that it is only right that they are held to account for it….Similarly, those that go out of their way to bully others ought to be reminded that we all have a voice on this forum…..

“I have never thought you were stereotypical in any respect”

No, that’s fine. I was not suggesting you were concerning myself, I just thought I’d throw it in there for interest!

Oh, congratulations by the way, it looks as if Brexit will now go ahead! I am intrigued as to what sort of Boris we will get in the coming year. I have a feeling that it might well end up being quite a soft Brexit. Boris was really quick to play the ‘One Nation Conservative card. The February cabinet reshuffle will tell us a lot!

Herodotus. I’m sick of Brexit, and I campaigned for it. And I’m sick of squabbling with fellow Brits over it. My kin.

Who will replace Swinson? When I mentioned her to a colleague today they replied “who”? Not much to go on.

I would like to see Boris ease austerity and spend, especially in the north. Too much emphasis on the south east leaving those up north feeling left out.

Soft Brexit. Yes it probably will be, as I’m reading the EU will now demand compromises to agree a trade deal.

To be honest, I don’t care who replaces Swinson. I am more concerned about getting the Labour Party back as an electable force. There is no future in niche socialism in this country….a lot of people don’t want to know. It is time for Labour to re-stablish itself around electable Social Democratic core values.

I quite agree. It is healthy to have effective opposition and genuine choice.

You always need an effective and viable opposition, and that’s where the Labour Party under Corbyn, and momentum have disgraced themselves in letting the working people of this country down! We are forced to choose from the lesser of a number of evils, not necessarily who or what we want! Cheers mate.

Respect mate. As always.

Just got to take this opportunity to say thank you! If it wasn’t for you and others of your ilk, the arrogant, dismissive and patronizing way you have treated and spoke to others, who disagree with your middle class wannabe attitude, then the working man may have used his vote to get in Corbyn and his acolytes in power. However your condescending attitude has ensured that most are sick of being told how to behave and how to vote and have chosen reality over fiction! Therefore myself and others are in your debt. Many thanks and have a great evening.

I have to conclude you know nothing about history. Also you know little about the American people and have no American friends. Otherwise you would know how inaccurate and offensive your comments are.

They did, though they’re locked out their own black boxes as with any export F16. Also the cost was massively inflated

In this case, the very best Japan can expect from the US is the option to do a domestic license build with limited access to information or capability for their industry. Tempest on the other hand will be a joint programme

If you are an optimist Friday morning?

Problem is, I don’t know what “good” likes anymore