A recent session the House of Commons Defence Committee raised critical concerns about the readiness of the UK’s armed forces.
Committee member Mr Mark Francois, a prominent Conservative MP and former Minister of State for the Armed Forces, opened the session with an inquiry into the British military’s preparedness for potential conflicts, specifically referencing the escalating tensions in Ukraine.
Mr Francois asked, “If Russia were to attack the United Kingdom tonight, are our armed forces ready at short notice to fight a major war?”
He then added, “That is the bottom line question, is it not?”
Answering Mr Francois’ question, Dr Simon Anglim from King’s College London presented a less than promising assessment. “If the United Kingdom was attacked tonight, it would be a case of our armed forces that are committed to NATO that would respond. Right now, the British Army says that it can put a single heavy division into the field, and it is a rather under-strength division. It has two brigades instead of the requisite three.”
Considering the comparison, Dr Anglim mentioned other armed forces’ capabilities. “Consider for a moment the Polish army. That has four divisions and four independent regiments. The Turkish army has five divisions and over 20 independent brigades.”
Highlighting the challenges faced by the UK, Dr Anglim said, “The UK looks upon a single division as a major commitment. We have just one brigade deployed in the Baltic right now, and it is going to take days, if not weeks, to bring that up to divisional strength.”
While discussing the RAF’s readiness, Professor Justin Bronk from the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) suggested a somewhat brighter scenario.
“We would be in slightly better shape if Russia were to choose to attack the UK right now,” he asserted. “In that sense, if you asked the question, ‘Russia attacks us conventionally tonight’—madness, but if it did so—we would probably be all right, especially because the Americans would then come steamrolling in.”
However, Professor Bronk also raised concerns about the RAF’s future readiness, stating, “My concern is much more that, in three years’ time, with Ukraine frozen somewhere, Russia will continue its mobilisation and its war economy on current to build back up to a much larger, if not better equipped, point than it was before Ukraine.”
Nick Childs from the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) voiced similar concerns for the Royal Navy, stating, “In terms of fighting tonight, the Royal Navy could deliver some key capabilities at pretty short notice… but in terms of something more ambitious, such as the carrier strike capability, that remains a work in progress.”
A key point that emerged in the discussions was the significant dependence on the United States.
In response to the Committee Chair’s remark, “The takeaway from this discussion is that we are not expecting article 5 to be triggered. If we did, we would be heavily reliant on the United States,” Professor Bronk agreed, “Again, the backbone of that capability, from C2, through munitions, through enablers, is the United States.”
Reflecting on the state of readiness of the UK’s armed forces, Mr Francois lamented, “If I am Vladimir Putin, you are not frightening me.”
South Korea produces much of the equipment we require and can deliver it on time as we have seen recently in Poland.
So, pick up the phone and start talking about a deal which suits us both they have already mentioned that they would like to partner with the UK in the past.
UK Team Thunder moves forward with plans for British variant of K9 Self-Propelled Gun
LINK
Yes it is a disgrace how we’ve let so much of our own defence manufacturing go when many nations provide much themselves. We’ve let the wrong sort of people guide policy way too long.
Agreed, they have the manufacturing capability we require and we have the technology. To me, this makes a great deal of sense if we require the equipment in the short term rather than solely relying on other nations to come to our aid. “We need a better conventional deterrent than what we have now unless people are happy with what we currently have. It’s funny how many Western nations are now doubling down on purchasing new equipment since the war started in Ukraine! “A year in the making, the package will “fully connect” allies’ collective defence “with the planning for… Read more »
“Ajax is the Army’s new armoured fighting vehicle programme. Costing £5.5 billion, it is the biggest single order for a UK armoured vehicle in more than 20 years and will replace the Army’s ageing fleet of tracked reconnaissance vehicles. The vehicles are assembled at prime contractor General Dynamics’s facility in Merthyr Tydfil in Wales. However, the vehicle’s entry into service has been repeatedly delayed and the Ministry of Defence’s (MOD) management of the programme criticised by the National Audit Office, the Defence select committee and the Public Accounts Committee. In March 2023, the Minister for Defence Procurement announced a new… Read more »
Challenger MBT
“The CDR means that the design for the tanks has been agreed and that RBSL can now start building the CR3 prototypes.
The work was carried out under an £800M contract which was awarded to RBSL in 2021 to deliver 148 upgraded, fully digitalised battle tanks to the British Army from 2027.”
LINK
Block 4 2029 and now delays with Tech Refresh 3 2024 and counting. Today’s F-35As Not Worth Including In High-End War Games According To Air Force General Comments from one of the Air Force’s top officers adds fuel to a newly-swirling and already fiery debate about the future F-35 program, as a whole. “At the same time, Hinote’s comments about the F-35A are notable in their own right. “We wouldn’t even play the current version of the F-35,” Hinote told Defense News. “It wouldn’t be worth it,” he continued. “Every fighter that rolls off the line today is a fighter that… Read more »
F-35 Engine Running Too Hot Due To ‘Under-Speccing,’ Upgrade Now Vital (Updated)
The F-35’s engine is having to work harder to cool and power the aircraft’s systems, leading to a logistical mess.
LINK
AI generated comments.
Bobby The Bots Back Again. NEWS FROM THE FLIGHT DECK “But TR-3 is slipping behind schedule. Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt, the F-35′s program executive officer, told lawmakers on March 29 that the upgrade is now expected to arrive somewhere between December 2023 and April 2024 — up to a year later than the original expected due date of April 2023. The delay drew the ire of Rep. Rob Wittman, R-Va., chairman of the House Armed Services tactical air and land forces subcommittee, who said: “the program has to do better.” Wittman also said TR-3 is running about $700 million over… Read more »
Anyone know how much the carbon fiber clutch on the F35 lift fan costs ?
One for the engineers at Allison/R-R that worked on the F-35B clutch and lift fan design!
That’s ridiculous. if the F35A is effectively unworthy to war fight now then its design is so fundamentally flawed, improvements so slow and delayed that it could not be reliably effective in the future surely. The fact that no threats or scenarios were mentioned that restrict its effectiveness I don’t see how such comments can be taken as realistic. That said it’s worrying that anyone with that sort of experience would make such a claim. What would he prefer to use in high end war games I wonder, F-16, F-18 F-15? I’m sure he would like Raptors at a guess… Read more »
It was reported that the 20 mm cannon is on restricted used due to causing cracks lol
A bit more on the subject can be found via this link For years, Air Force officials have portrayed the F-35 as the aircraft that it would use to infiltrate into enemy airspace to knock out surface-to-air missiles and other threats without being seen. However, in the war game, that role was played by the more survivable NGAD, in part due to the F-35′s inability to traverse the long ranges of the Pacific without a tanker nearby, Hinote said. Instead, the F-35 attacked Chinese surface ships and ground targets, protected American and Taiwanese assets from Chinese aircraft, and provided cruise… Read more »
The reality is this is US politics and who’s getting job at major contractors in the future. When you look at all the details and what the F35 is replacing its more balanced, yes the F35 has issue but you look at availability of other airframes its actually worse. The f35A now costs less almost every 4th gen fighter and the F35A B and C out performs many it will replace (compare the F35 to the Harrier for instance.). Would countries be dumping flyable F16s if the F35 was a train wreck, no. I tend to watch what is actually… Read more »
Hi Expat,
You will find this is an interesting read.
LINK
It’s been delayed because it doesn’t work.
Roll on the 2030s!
Nigel, we all know this!
Try telling that to a certain person on here, it’s for his benefit after posting his usual idiotic comments to me!
The American GD forgot to put a fume extractor on their 105 mm light prototype (Ajax Based ) tank and the turret filled up with fumes . this required a purge system to be fitted . There were also concerns about noise and vibration although at lower levels than AJAX !
Why-o-why are they then still using the Ascod chassis? Buy the Ascod based Sabrah light tank or the Merkava off the Israelis. Lots of other choices too.
Ajax….one word woefull.
It only matters what you have on day one of war to some degree. Its how your economy is setup is really what’s important. Worth a watch.
Watch War Factories Series 1 Episode 1 Online (uktvplay.co.uk)
Cheers!
What nonsense BAE is bigger than all Korean defence contractors combined, bearing in mind that many of Korea’s military infrastructure is state controlled and loss making. Rose tinted glasses based on ignorance?
BAE is a global conglomerate & most of that capability is USA based. What we sould be comparing is the S Korean based arms industry capabilities & the UK based. In those terms we produce far less of our own kit, making our resupply vulnerable as well as everything usually very expensive.
Well said! “The New York Times reported that South Korea’s arms exports rose 140% to a record $17.3 billion in 2022. These defence export volumes include deals worth $12.4 billion in sales to Poland, as it maintains a precarious balance between its unwavering ties to Washington and its own economic and national interests.” South Korea has quietly become a favorite of arms buyers around the world, in the culmination of a decades-long effort to protect itself from North Korea by building an indigenous arms industry with economies of scale gained from big export sales. Among international weapons suppliers, the country climbed… Read more »
Hanwha begins production of Huntsman vehicles for Australian Army26 JUNE 2023 “Hanwha Defense Australia (HDA) has started production of the AS9 and AS10 Huntsman family of vehicles for the Australian Army under the country’s Land 8116 Phase 1 programme, the company told Janes on 26 June. Under this programme, the Australian Department of Defence (DoD) signed a contract worth AUD1 billion (USD667 million) with HDA to supply 30 AS9 155 mm self-propelled howitzers (SPHs) and 15 AS10 armoured ammunition resupply vehicles (AARVs). A spokesperson from HDA said production of the first three vehicles – two AS9s and one AS10 – to be… Read more »
Ideal for us I would have thought. Hanwha plans to participate in India’s FICV, light tank programmes26 JUNE 2023 “South Korea’s Hanwha Aerospace is planning to participate in some of the Indian Army’s most ambitious programmes to procure capabilities including Futuristic Infantry Combat Vehicles (FICVs) and light tanks. A Hanwha Aerospace spokesperson told Janes that the company plans to offer its Redback and K21 infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) to fulfil the Indian Army’s FICV requirement. The Indian Army seeks to replace its ageing fleet of 2,500 Soviet Union-era BMP-1 and BMP-2 ICVs under the FICV programme. The government approved the FICV procurement… Read more »
Yeah, we’ll be up sh*t creek if a war with a near peer nation starts and decided to use submarines in the Atlantic! The Allies won WW2 by out producing the Axis powers, how the hell are we going to that now?
As exservices, I’m absolutely shocked by the state of our current readiness, we should have dumped Trident and years ago!
Sorry, rant over…. 🤦🏻♂️
Agreed. Far better to team up with a country that has a solid manufacturing base and produces the types of equipment we need and gets it out to the customer on time.
Its going to take us a great many years to get back to where we used to be, and that requires a great deal of investment also.
Partner with us is code for selling us stuff, you will find a very long list of foreign nations willing to “partner” with us.
We don’t face any discernible threat that requires a major army so I can’t see anything that South Korea can offer us.
South Korea has also been very hesitant to support Ukraine. It should not be rewarded for this stance.
A sensible reply to Nigel won’t generate a reply from his AI generated comments. 😉
A knee jerk reaction to just go out and buy off the shelf actually makes things worse for our long term ability to defend ourselves. The fundamental main problem with the UK economy is lack of growth due to lack of inward investment. Defence expenditure is set as a % of GDP if that doesn’t increase the available budget stagnates or shrinks in real terms due to inflation. So don’t phone Korea, get BAe, RR, JCB and the heads of UK engineering into a room and set them a challenge. UK will commit to a long term rolling programme to… Read more »
Well said but you need to emphasise the ‘manufacture it all here’so we aren’t dependent on overseas suppliers.
Sorry but that is impossible, we just can’t build it all ourselves no-one can not even France, China or the US. What you can do is ensure you have the ability to design and build the majority of your major kit in U.K with the highest home produced % you can. Also ensure you do real collaborations with countries who don’t put ridiculous non usage conditions on the bits they contribute. Besides which it does work both ways, and banning allied foreign manufacturers from supplying some components could really backfire. I’ll give you an example, we build T26 frigates, and… Read more »
“We don’t face any discernible threat that requires a major army ”
This is the most laughable of the many ridiculous comments that you habitually post here. Are you aware of what is going on in UKraine?
But it happens to be true nether the less! Only an idiot would suggest that we could be invaded by Russia or China. So we have no land threats. Zero, nil, none.
Any likely imminent threats would therefore be expeditionary and 90% of these would involve NATO. I do wish people would engage their brains.
You assume that a rational person is in charge in Russia. Clearly this is not so, or they would not have invaded Ukraine. Have you ever heard of the element of surprise? Remember the Novichok incident in Salsibury
👍I can remember comments on here in relation to a war in Europe that would “never happen” until it did!
Clearly, there is no need to purchase any additional equipment or indeed upgrade it let alone increase defence spending!
And how exactly does a Russian army travel across Europe “by surprise” are you serious or do you need some help!
I think the more serious point is that a Russian land army would be shredded by Apache / Eurocopter with help from F35A/B and Typhoon.
The Russian land army cannot make headway where they have marginal air superiority.
So I’m lost as to how they can make any progress against RAF / AAC level resources never mind that rolling into Germany /Poland is article 5 stuff so a harsh NATO response is likely to be called for.
Hi SB – the obvious lesson that is apparent in the UkR war is that MANPADS have prevented either side from achieving air superiority and being able to offer troops engaged with the enemy close air support
The MoD would have kittens if NATO (particulary the French) demanded the release of any of our air assets to attack enemy forces on the ground. The Russians have lost hundreds of helicopters in Ukraine and many Sukhoi warplanes
For reasons I’m not going to go into on here: I’m not so concerned. We can see it pick up their radars – we then send them a nice HE present and that is the send of S300 / 400 battery. Bear in mind we have integrated real time data electronic/satellite/other. As regards MANPADS that are of limited altitude. So F35 and Typhoon fly at high altitude and can use precision munitions to take them out when they are turned on. Russian MANPADS never were terribly good as they are reverse engineered STINGERs. The issue being that the Russians never… Read more »
Hi SB – hope all is well.
I’m curious if Typhoon’s DASS (especially the one we have on the RAF Typhoons which is supposed to be the best) would be effective against MANPADS?
Also, if DASS is so good (which I have read it is supposed to be) then why are we so afraid of S300/400/500?
I find it also ironic that we have no SEAD missiles after we got rid of ALARM. Do we have anything in the pipeline?
Just curious.
Thanks.
Yes Article 5 is our true defence, those who want NATO abolished are beyond naive. Putin’s chef has ridiculed Putin’s excuse for his war that so resonated with the useful idiots and left wing in Europe who loved to argue if there is no threat to it the Russians would be peace loving too. Thisis despite as Pre Fact is Europe was and still is woefully ill prepared to resist a colonial war minger who would have no problem claiming that the Scots are the lost tribe of the Rus and occupy traditional Russian lands. As Prigozhin has said there… Read more »
As I say above had Norway not been cut off from that manoeuvre by Finland and Sweden joining NATO the northern NATO flank was literally wide open for years. So they may have got a lot closer than you anticipate and like Germany in the 40s militarily very difficult to dislodge. Before the sudden increase in military spending in Europe and had as some in the US demanded they had dumped NATO Europe would have struggled to resist a Russian invasion (geez in a recent list Germany was rated the 25th most effective military power) had they been remotely competent.… Read more »
Stop living in the past. Wars have moved on. Technology has moved on USSR no longer exists. Russian economy is the size of Italy.
Or do you mean attacked by Russia or China?
Could we end up as part of NATO defending against Russia or China?
No I’m saying that anyone that thinks Russia or China are going to attack the U.K. are pretty stupid. So anyone suggesting anything other than an expeditionary army capability as part of NATO is not the smartest knife in the drawer. As an aside, to show just how stupid some people are. When we have had army recruitment targets for a larger army, we have not been able to fill said vacancies! So for those not living in Alice-in-wonderland the reality is the army is not getting any bigger and we might as well get used to reality.
Agree
The man speaks sense. Careful. It won’t go down well on this site 😄👍
Correct the U.K. mainland won’t be attacked. So the army has to be able to get to and attack/defend any U.K. interests, territories world wide. Also be able to back up any allies that ask for help.
The army has to be able to get to as far away as Pitcairn if it was invaded. Unlikely but to not have the capability sends the wrong message.
That is true at this point. However when Finland wasn’t in NATO and we and indeed they thought Russia was more powerful than they are, Norway was very much under threat. If Norway fell then part of the UK would be closer to Russian occupied territory that mainland Britain plus the whole sea to our north and east a hear Russian lake. Thankfully that weakness is now eliminated esp with Sweden now effectively part of NATO even if not actual. However in the future how reliable will future US Govts be to NATO and Europe. Without US support we could… Read more »
You fail to differentiate between intelligent analysis and fantasy nonsense. Intelligent analysis posits that 90% of Russian/Chinese claims are propaganda fantasy. Fantasists believe everything they say and believe Hollywood films are real! You fail to mention how Russian forces faired in Norway! Didn’t go so well, Ukraine doesn’t suggest any better. Europeans are big boys now, any suggestions that US forces would be necessary is living in the past. Russia is not the Soviet Union, it is a small regional economy with nuclear weapons.
Naive, Europe is a paper tiger, infact it is not even a paper “tiger”, where would Ukraine be without US intelligence, US ammunition, US deterrence? What is stopping the Russians using a battlefield nuke right now? There is only one semi European navy with an SSN fleet worth having so who keeps the sea lanes open? Where could fuel come from? Where would the gas to heat European homes come from? Biggest failing of all…..demographics.
Thanks for your wise input Mr Putin….
I think I live many miles west of you!
Things change how will China be in 10 yrs ,look at the trouble in USA with the Election Biden vs Trump .One day the USA my have a weak government or pull out of NATO Trump did consider this at one point .No country top dog for ever .
As I have said before Europeans have started putting on their big boy pants and Russia is not the Soviet Union. Those days of reliance on the US in Europe are gone.
Which Europeans? If you look at energy supply, energy cost, demographics, the impact on manufacturing base (see the impact of energy supply on German manufacturing / chemicals , as it continues to decamp overseas). The truth is in the coming 50 years, Europe will be more, not less, dependent on the US, you simply did not have enough children so you have no consumers which in turn means less manufacturing and more tax burden for healthcare (less for Defence) . The only other major European changes will be the growing influence of countries like Poland within Europe, the partial disengagement… Read more »
Trouble is, after Russia is defeated and withdraws to lick its wounds, who cares! China will think long and hard before invading Taiwan.
Until the Baltic states and most of Europe and Scandinavia have been neutered or overrun, then what? Our ability to support those frontline nations is very limited and way way less than we had in 1939. Another Battle of Britain and the glorious few last bastion again? This time round we don’t have the industry or capability to rebuild and requip in a short time.
Nonsense. Living in the past. See my reply above.
The nonsense is your dismissive reply. I suggest you read the comments and think about it. While the likelihood is low, it is higher (assuming potential aggressors expand the chips on their shoulders) than it was twenty years ago. Our ability to do anything other than field and sustain twenty to thirty thousand troops is laughable, as is the few capital ships and aircraft we have. Not living in the past at all, actually if you think abot the comparison you would understand. We could not sustain another battle of britain, still less a dunkirk in any sort of short… Read more »
Gosh, Battle of Britain, you’re obviously not living in the past! You do realise we have satellites right? We have missiles right? We have drones right? Time to move on I think. There will be no invasion, there is no USSR, we will not be fighting a land war alone, we don’t need anything other than an expeditionary army and our Navy and Airforces are the most capable in Europe.
You REALLY REALLY need to think about it. We all have satellites, did that stop them invading Ukraine, even though we could see them preparing? We do not have sufficient missiles as you glibly put it, still less the manufacturing capability to resupply in the quantities we would need. We make a contribution to NATO and EU forces, but that is all. Stop looking at defence through rose tinted spectacles! It is clear from your cmment that you have no idea. Lessons of history? If someone decides to invade us (unlikely) then it would be another Battle of Britain, which… Read more »
To be honest, it’s difficult to know where to start with this nonsense. Russia is incapable of overcoming Ukraine, never mind a 1st division power. Now you’ve either overdosed on Russia comic book propaganda or are part of the UFO brigade. Doesn’t matter.
You are right, Russia is much less capable than we feared. However, don’t forget that Putin will be keeping reserves against all the NATO borders so they are not fighting Ukraine with all their assets. The fact that they are at present not capable is not a reason for nto making sure our capabilities are up to scratch. Especially since it takes time to build them up which in todays much faster moving world can easily be too late. Nothing to do with propaganda but complacency which is what you seem to wish for is not the way to plan… Read more »
Where I’m from we deal with reality not fantasy. So you build for tomorrow, not for yesterday. The bogie man (USSR) is dead, we move on. Rogue states and terrorists don’t require mega armies they require tactical interventions.
The bogey man is NOT dead yet. Look around you. The rise of fascist militarism is rife. Look at the Far East, who do you think will replace Putin? Why has Finland joined NATO, why does Sweden want to? What about the militarisation of oil/gas in Europe? Russia certainly has shown itself to be not very good (even if questionably it ever was), but that doesn’t mean it’ll stay that way, and they still have enormous resources that they haven’t committed to Ukraine. While a NATO v Russia conflict will not go Russia’s way, regardless of their hubris, it still… Read more »
Presumably you have no expertise in Risk Management. Whilst planning for “known unknowns” and “unknown unknowns” makes a nice sound bite, in real life you can only plan for events which are probable. To put it simply, you can “plan” for a Black Death or the plague, but you cannot plan for an extinction event or alien visitation. So your premise is naive at best and silly at worst. In order to “practically” plan in Risk Management, you start with possible scenario, based upon past events and societal developments. The famous quote “history doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes” applies. This… Read more »
Sorry to inform you, but this fantasy Russia sweeping through the Baltic states is a figment of imagination. It no longer exists. The USSR died in the 80’s RIP.
You need to thnk about it. Firstly, USSR was not singularly Russia, it stands for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Secondly retaking the Baltic States would have been easy prior to them joining NATO, and if they had done that which would have been much easier than taking on Ukraine, they would have done so. They invaded Finland in the 30s. Secondly you are falling into the same trap of the various Governments since the early 90s, assuming that Russia has no benign intentions and therefore cutting back substantially on our defence and indeed offense capabilities. If Russia deided to… Read more »
Confused.com???
I must say with Russia heading into civil war with nuclear armed nutters fighting for their lives defence looks quite important to me.
Maybe I’m not reading the room but desperate people do stupid things to themselves survive.
I’d be less than surprised if Wagner isn’t treated to a few buckets of sunshine. If it is within Russia’s own borders it will be passed off as Wagner trying to deploy tactical nucs and getting it wrong.
Of course once that happens the gloves are off conventionally.
Sensible comment. Reuters is now reporting that Russian army helicopters are engaging the Wagner military convoy heading North to Moscow on the M-4 motorway. As usual with Reuters there is no evidence for this statement other than they cite “witnesses”
David wrote:
There is video of Russian military Hinds apprantly striking Wagner troops/postions
Of strikes in the city of Voronezh
Wagner have shot down a IIyushin II-22 communications aircraft
As well as a couple of Mil 8 EW helos
The Independent now has footage of civies in Rostov bringing food and beverages to Wagner fighters, who staged an armed rebellion against Russia’s defence ministry and who have apparently siezed the building
David wrote:
Yeah seen that, there another (same camera man i think) in the same area where people express solidarity with Wagner.
Wagner troops have now advanced further north and are reported to have reached Tula Oblast which is next door to Moscow, with reports Putin has left Moscow for St Petersburg
Amazing, US news media always appears to lag reality by a considerable margin. However, always willing to cover latest fashion trend. 🙄 At this rate, anticipate breaking news at some point stating: World has ended, video at eleven, sometime next week…🙄
There’s the beginning of a internecine fight inside the Western regions of Russia, here’s a video of a Strela-10 air defence system targeting a KA 52.
And here’s the same instant but from a few miles away, something tells me a clean set of underwear will be needed
Thanks for posting links. Anyone else experiencing at least a slight sense of unease that this may become a pathway for loss of containment of current situation ?
You never know if there’s some collusion going on here too. They seem to play off each other a bit.
Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see….. never been a time when this statement has sounded more true😂
🏴🇬🇧
Johnie will be on in a minute telling us that it’s being reported in Russia that it landed safely
This is what happens when you outsource the military to a catering company.
Next year I think CAPITA might try and take out London if labour try and cut their contracts 😀
Exactly, and apart from those living in Alice in Wonderland we know he would do anything to blame the West to detract from his current problems.
Almost surreal to be posing these questions, but how secure are Russian tactical nuke weapon storage complexes? Do Russian tactical nukes have something approximately equivalent to a PAL System?
I have no real knowledge. The rumour was that it relied on various bits being physically stored separately. And a final assembly taking place. You can’t really store the mortar/howitzer shells all assembled, long term, for a variety of good reasons. Given all the 8” mortar/howitzers that fired the battlefield variants are as old as the hills they would super easy to spot. The air gravity bombs could probably be stored more assembled. Again, as I understood it, the interface to the plane weapons system wasn’t kept in place and was stored separately. How well the procedures are observed is… Read more »
Thanks, food for thought that if a civil war ever truly erupts in Russia, the effective control of thousands of weapons of this class may be in jeopardy. 🤔😳
Who knows what is really going on? The Chef has apparently stopped Wagner’s advance?? WTF?? He trusts Putrid not to throw him out of a window? However, I’m getting more than a little clear that the ‘rest period’ that Wagner took was part of this. That putting the Russian army reserves into the grinder, to backfill the ‘rest’ was an also part of a plan. Was ‘the plan’ to create a space for the Ukrainians to punch into? With the militaristic Chef now racing back to the front line to save Russia’s bacon? Is it just me: or does this… Read more »
Now that you mention it, there does seem to be a choreographed component to this most recent theatre spectacle, but damned if I understand how it could redound to Mad Vlad’s benefit! Russians are masters of political intrigue from the days of the Czars, and obviously believe it to be a full contact sport. Imagine UKR and multiple western agencies are working overtime to parse the implications of this episode.🤔😳
Yes, the nation that represents the only conceivable land threat to Europe made it 40km in to the poorest country in Europe before retreating and is currently disintegrating, its population will drop by half and its weapons manufacturing industry has been proven to be useless.
It’s rapidly running out of money as it’s only credible industry disintegrates under sanctions.
Hence no need for an army.
The 68th Middlesbrough Brownies could likely take on the Russians and win.
Yup, but idiots only count numbers of troops and how fast their aircraft fly and how many ancient tanks they have in storage.
Do you mean we, UK, have no need of an army? You are of course being ironic!
Jims’ crystal ball wouldn’t lie to us.
Like the unsinkable Titanic, Peace in our time, etc.
Todays world is a powder keg right now.
South Korea like Japan is in a very difficult position so I can understand its hesitation to become too involved I have less sympathy for the likes of Switzerland and Austria.
Jim, why do you single out the army here? Does the RAF and RN need to be major in size to face discernible threats?
Sorry what ? U do know the uk has one of if not one of the largest defence industries in the world right ? BAE alone is bigger than all of koreas combined
Worth reading, plus, they get their products out on time.
LINK
I don’t recall many army equipments being slow to deliver from BAE.
BAe isn’t really an all-British defence company any more though. From what I have been able to gather only 30% of BAe system’s revenues are generated by UK based manufacturer IMG, the rest by its foreign based subsidiaries, particularly BAe systems Inc, which may as well be counted as a US defence company using a British brand name.
Nonsense Bae Systems is 100% owned by BAE, as is every other subsidiary. BAE is one of the top defence contractors in the world. And for those bigging up South Korea’s biggest ever defence contract with Poland ($13bn), this is dwarfed by BAE T26 deal with Canada and by T26 deal with Australia and will look like a Pygmy compared to BAE benefits from AUKUS. Popular to denigrate U.K. and U.K. companies on this site, unfortunately never based on facts or reality.
Correct
Yet it continuously produces stuff late, over budget and fails to export it.
Saudi bought Tornado, Typhoon, as just one example. T26 is also sold to Australia & Canada.
It is hard to build to time & budget, if the customer launches a project without knowing exactly what it wants, keeps changing specs, numbers, then delays for a year for budgetary reasons, then just as the project is coming right, cancels it on a whim.
Correct Tim but don’t spoil a good story with fsct.
And Trained manpower are you suggesting we ask them to move into the UK as well, after all, we are taking in a foreign force, where those criminals are allowing them to set up bases
Are you a racist by any chance?
The banned cleric came and preached that people in this country should be beheaded if they do not accept Muhamad, The home office allowed him in to spread his hate, do you support their terrorism in this country? It seems you do..You would turn on the people of this country for their Christian values and colour ..the only racist and moral bigot is you
You also may understand that this war is not supported by the British public, the lap dog of Biden ..you don’t have to support Trump but the duty is to protect this country and not the commercial benefits of those willing to sacrifice troops for profit of the banks
Which one is you?
The ‘Master Race’
https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/t_share/MTc2NDY0NjYxMDk1NTg5ODUw/the-nazi-policies-put-in-place-to-domesticate-nazi-women-1933.jpg
https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/assets/img/jackets/large/20359.jpg
is that you and your wife
How’s the war going at the moment? Sounds a bit like a slaughterhouse for Russian men.
When will the pensioners be called up to fight?
Do you believe everything these idiots print or cherry pick the parts you want to believe ? South Korea don’t produce more than the UK and what you also forget South Korea like Russia and China it’s not tried or tested some will be vastly overrated over hyped cr.. Like we’ve seen the Russians using.
No, I do my research first, you should try it. How do you think military equipment makes its way into different countries’ armed forces? Does it need to go to war first to prove its worth? Has Ajax been tested on the battlefield yet? Challenger 3? No, they go through a rigorous set of trials first to test their effectiveness. Mar 2023 “The New York Times reported that South Korea’s arms exports rose 140% to a record $17.3 billion in 2022. These defence export volumes include deals worth $12.4 billion in sales to Poland, as it maintains a precarious balance between… Read more »
Try telling that to Poland and Australia for starters. Australia selects Hanwha’s Redback for IFV requirement27 JULY 2023 The Australian government has selected Hanwha Defense Australia (HDA) to deliver 129 Redback infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) to the Australian Army under its Land 400 Phase 3 programme, the country’s Minister for Defence Industry Pat Conroy announced in Canberra on 27 July. The announcement concludes a five-year tender process during which HDA, a subsidiary of South Korea’s Hanwha Group, competed with the Lynx KF41 IFV proposed by Germany’s Rheinmetall Defence Australia (RDA) to replace the army’s Vietnam-era M113AS4 armoured personnel carriers (APCs).… Read more »
Mr Francois is not a great seer. Yevgeny Prigozhin has supposedly taken control of Rostov on Don and Wagner forces are marching on Moscow. I think Putin has bigger problems and is on his way out.
Divided they fall, hopefully. Hopefully without more suffering for the ordinary Russian people. YP is a strange “saviour”, leading a brutal paramilitary mercenary group that brutally & viciously unleashes criminals across Africa as well as all the awful things against Ukraine. Hugely ironic the Russian military is shelling it, striking it with missiles & they’re all at each others throats.
Yes, a strange saviour indeed. It was clever of Ukraine to maintain the fight for Bakhmut, inflicting heavy losses on Wagner forces. I’m sure they knew they could easily retake it once the Wagner forces handed it over to the Russian army. YP must have been as sick as the proverbial parrot…a real WTF moment. He has decided enough is enough. With any luck we are seeing the final denouement of the 1917 Tragedy. )8
Yes, where is JinMK for his assessment as to how swimmingly things are going?
I think the video they showed of the camp is an obvious fake, and Prigozhin is potentially a bigger SoaB than Putin, so lets be careful what we wish for.
Unless its all a plan to get rid of the Defence Ministry leaders as the scapegoats and Putin and Prigozhin then remain.
As you say, be careful what you wish for. I see Lúcia de Jesus Rosa dos Santos, the last remaining of the 3 children of the 1917 Fatima visions, has just been declared venerable. Perhaps Putins removal will be her first miracle on the way to sainthood. I must check Paddy Power to see what odds they are offering on his successor 🙂
i had a debate with MK two weeks ago when I said Russia was just about to fall to warlordism and internal civil strife. I was quite frankly pretty clear from the open source intel this was a major risk.
John in Mk has filled his Lada boot with Vodka and hightailing it out of Moscow, heading for the Belarus boarder as fast as his belching Russian car can go…..
I’m sure when he eventually turns up Daniele, he will tell you Putin is merely “defending in depth”, as he seeks asylum in Beijing🤣🤣
It’s all part of a “Cunning Plan” Baldrikinski.
🤣🤣🤣🤣👍
I wonder where he might get asylum. I was thinking China but I very much doubt it, it would humiliate them too and they want to side with winners not failing fools and losers. Syria, well they too need the new regime surely or another ICC case picks up momentum. Belarus is hardly likely to be a safe haven for long either. None of the Stans will want him they are taking advantage already by distancing themselves. So a tinpot nation in Africa or South America who might just ignore his please I suspect so North Korea it is I… Read more »
I would not be surprised if Wagner moves on block to Africa for mercenary activities there. Earning its way back to Putin’s love with gold, minerals, dollars, etc. that it sends back to mother Russia.
Digging a trench outside Moscow again 😂
https://worldwar2database.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_400x400/public/wwii0212.jpg
I think that’s John MK with the shovel 😂
My thoughts exactly mate!
Just came up, civilians in Moscow are to stay indoors.
I had an interesting debate with our own Russian troll two weeks ago when I said the evidence was there that Russia was likely to soon fall into civil strife and possible warlordism…I actually think the whole invasion of Ukraine was a symptom of this ( it was not a sane invasion…..the time was all wrong).
Did he say when would be the right time for an illegal invasion?
I said it was the wrong time to invade from a pure military point of view…(remove the illegal and immoral bit, it’s never right to invade bit as that is a different discussion). This revolves around the pure utter foolishness of launching an offensive in Eastern Europe during the rasputitsa…effectively the Russian invasion of Ukraine in mid February was utter bonkers and cost them the core of their professional army..if they had waited until mid April that attack from Belarus from the north would have probably worked…as it was you cannot manoeuvre during the Rasputitisa…so the question has to be… Read more »
Interesting question if your appraisal is correct. Though incompetence can at times not need a logical explanation I guess, over confidence can be enough and they felt that there would be no need to actually have the right conditions to fight. Britain has made some similar strategic errors in its past, even the taking of Quebec was a disaster until a totally off the wall desperate last attempt ( when Wolff was ill ironically) was devised which drew one of the great successes from many weeks of near disaster that were erased from history.
That is true you can never rule out incompetence, but this is not a lack of knowledge as the Russia Army live with the rasputitsa every year….they know how it prevents campaigning in a profound way ( it’s saved their nation from invading armies a number of times). There are only really two explanations: 1) utter Hubris and forgetting everything the Russian army knows about campaigning on effectively home turf ( geography and conditions speaking not national boundary speaking) 2) some form of domestic tension forced Putin to invade before he wanted to….I truly think they were going to invade… Read more »
Prigozhin now says he has stopped moving north on Moscow.
I actually prefer Putin to Prigozhin, thank you.
Real thing? Or ruse to create a pretext to pull back from Ukraine? Defence of the motherland? Putin securing his position by pulling more of the army back?
Or is my conspiracy brain overcooking?
They are all vile war mungering mass murderers…it’s interesting if you look at all those senior figures in Russia they all have those profoundly cold eyes… I think it’s too heavy for a ruse…although you never know with that lots…I’m sure we will find out in a few days depending on who’s dead. If suddenly we see Prigozhin back in his position and still alive then just maybe it was a move Backed by Putin to cut down the defence minister, especially if we see a removed defence minister and then Putin suddenly try’s to have talks with Ukraine (… Read more »
Well, our resident expert Troll will be along shortly to explain everything I’m sure…..
I think his last explanation was that it was a simple administrative miscommunication….
Daniele a fair few trolls on Ukdj at least 6 maybe more some are more sutle than others .
Oh, only 2 spring to mind. Others over the years have faded.
I’m not great at spotting them if they’re subtle, as by my nature I’m too trusting. I was even giving JMK the benefit of the doubt. Not now.
It matters not, others here are eagle eyed.
A fair few Nigel one he’s now gone back on the F35 fake BS . He must think all the fighter jet aviation experts from the majority of NATO members & Israel Japan Australia are complete idiots . Strange the cmention mention lead the world with technology by a country mile ..
My thoughts exactly mate, in concert with some tacit relaxing foot off the gas black op type politicking from Ukrainian head sheds, let Prigohzin move toward Moscow, not blaming Putin but going to save him from his generals! Generals get strung up, they get blamed by Putin for bad advice, Prigohzin is a hero, Putin is off the hook for the cluster invasion, ceasefire called, slow withdrawal to pre-invasion start lines! Then Russia will get time to re-equip, re-train and look to the next 5 years plus! Not sure, just thinking on the hoof! Thoughts mate?
You have a devious mind mate….Like me! 😆
Silly argument since there tanks and troops drove along motorways! There main attempt to take the airfield outside Kieve failed all on its own!
um What is a silly argument…..if you are talking about the mud season impacting on military operations as being a silly argument…ummm no, it’s a fact of campaign in Eastern Europe.
Not when you’re driving on motorways and taking airports it ain’t. Presumably you’ve heard of the old blitzkreig! It’s like the commentators talking about Russian strong defensive positions! Hello, if an invader has defensive positions he’s already lost, it’s not if, but when you go round and encircle him.
Yes but the reason they had to follow a plan of driving their armoured battle groups down a motorway was because at that time of year it was the only option…..because they invaded in February their battle groups were stuck on tarmac and could not manoeuvre, because at that time you cannot undertake manoeuvre warfare at all……if they had attacked in mid to late April that area between Kyiv and the Belarus boarder is great for manoeuvre warfare. They could have used their advantage in numbers of armoured battle groups actual used manoeuvre warfare, which Ukraine would have struggled at… Read more »
And we are thankful that they did. Slava Ukrain!
Indeed, thank goodness for the Russian army leaderships hubris or incompetence ( or both) it gave Ukraine the moment and chance it needed (as well as effectively shattering Russias professional army). Ukraine has taken the gift with both hands and immense fighting spirit.
And who will fill his place if that happens, a Western-friendly President prehaps?
Well, that wouldn’t be difficult 🙂
Well I note the PM has sensibly kept to a far less confrontational stance. Trouble is he doesn’t have an army at his back like the Chef but if the latter is defeated but at great cost to Putin just maybe. I think there are a lot of people who see the alliance with China to be a disaster for the Country long term whatever the short term benefits Putin and his cronies could sell and exploit for personal benefit and riches.
Most of us here have been banging on about it too for quite some time!
You can cut the state smaller & smaller ruthlessly, but you will end up delivering ourselves into the hands of our enemies & make the country a hell hole.
They need to wake up & spend what is necessary to guard & preserve what we hold dear.
Defence spending does not take place in a vacuum, last year we had the third biggest defence budget in the world. In 1937 we were not even in the top 5. The state has never shrunk, numbers in the armed forces have dropped primarily because automation has lead to more equipment spending and massive productivity gains and our security situation is extremely good relative to history and we have few overseas commitments and powerful Allie’s to help guard what we do need to guard. A single F35 on its own can now put more ordinance on target than all of… Read more »
“A single F35 on its own can now put more ordinance on target than all of bomber command combined in 1945”
Where do you dream up this absolute crap? Have you every heard of the WW2 1000 bomber raids on cities like Dresden?
Maybe he means F35A and tactical nucs?
Many estimates from WW2 had ratios of 500 bombers being required to put a single bomb on an exact target when you were talking about a pin point target and that was in daylight bombing from high altitude, night bombing unaided could take thousands.
Either with precision weapons for pin point targets or nuclear weapons for area targets a single F35 is more capable and survivable than an entire strategic Airforce from WW2.
I agree to a point.
If you are taking out a whole airbase then a bit more weight would be required.
Exactly there was precision bombing in the war but if your strategic aim is to take out a city then you use different methods not far removed from what the Russians are trying and generally failing to do from the air and don’t gave the capacity to carry out.
Well strange then that the late war radar guided bomb sights were used for many years thereafter. However I will agree you are right as a generalisation but don’t under estimate the technology that was being developed late war esp in radar. 617 were able to hit a well protected battleship after all from great height. Yes it was all early days and only available to or possible by small numbers but at its best the RAF was by wars end very capable and accurate at its best day or night it just wasn’t able to expand it to its… Read more »
The HS2 derived bombsight was used in Vulcan which was used in Black Buck.
Precision it was not.
The main reason for the Barnes Wallis earthquake bombs success was they didn’t have to be terribly accurate.
In a way, Chastise didn’t have to be either apart from the drop height as the bomb would be unlikely to go over the dam top and then inevitable fall to depth to trigger the pressure fuze.
That’s true but that’s one Vulcan bomber in black buck 1 used 21 bombs dropped at very low level and it managed to put a single bomb in the runway at Stanley and that was consider good luck in 1982.
A modern single F35 would have put every single bomb in the runway no questions asked.
So could Harrier: if the laser guidance kits sent South had been used?
Apparently they where used but they where few and far between as most where on Atlantic Conveyor
There were two ground laser designators for SF to use.
One of them ended up in the drink I think as a result of a cab going down. I may be wrong in that detail.
The issue was also the prevailing conditions were not fantastic for the early laser tech.
However, I’d have been quite clear that a precise zig zag of craters down the runway would have sent a clear message.
I’m also unclear why Vulcan couldn’t have dropped LGB’s – this could have been practised.
I meant H2S radar…….
But I agree that F35(any variant) would put all the LGB / PAVEWAY exactly where they were needed and from high altitude so above MANPAD range.
To be pedantic….. I think it was Tall Boy, not Grand Slam (the earthquakes bomb) that was used on the Tirpitz.
Chastise was more of a height issue, too low and the bomb wont make it to the wall, to high and it could bounce over, ideally it needed to come to a stop exactly as it reached the wall and then sink down it, not bounce up, over or off it.
Spot on ref the Vulcan bomb site….although if you are dropping the originally intended ordinance, perhaps 100ft either way wasn’t a deal breaker 🙂
Just accuracy mate..a B17 had around a 1% chance of landing one of its 600kg bombs on a 100 square feet target. The US airforce worked on an estimate of 220 bombers giving them a 90% of knocking out a target.
Yup
I walked everyone through the maths at the start of this wrt to Russian munitions expenditure.
That was about 1% too……
And that is ironic as going into the war they claimed their ‘superior’ sights could land a bomb on a shall we say ‘beer barrel’,( I forget their actual term in pr campaigns). As usual the US under estimated the problem and over estimated their own capabilities in executing it.
Yes it was massively overestimated….it’s one of the key reasons the RAF Simply moved to night bombing…you were effectively just dumping hundreds of tons of ordinance and hoping be it night or day…and at least at night the vast majority of enemy fighters could not operate.
Pickle barrel…….who knew Europe had clouds ….
Suppose it depends on the target. If its a specific building then yes, the single f35 can hit that where in ww2 it would take 100s of bombers to saturate an area and still have to hope a bomb or 2 found the target.
Most WW2 raids were targeting a single building. City area bombing was not that common even for the RAF. Many raids were launched by bomber command to try and take out a single building or a complex and most USAF raids where for this purpose as well.
That’s exactly my point, it took hundreds of bombers to possibly not even hit the target building.
Yes it took 1000 bombers attacking an entire city to take out a couple of rail lines. An F35 could do that with a couple of Paveway IV’s. If you wanted to do take out the entire city it could do it with a couple of B61’s.
Any other questions?
As I have pointed out here before, you post the most ridiculous rubbish on this thread. In this case you insult the memory of the many RAF Bomber Command officers who lost their lives contibuting to the Allied victory over Germany.
You really don’t know what you are talking about – and thats my last word on it
It has some fact. A WW2 heavy bomber could not land a bomb on target for love nore money…the mass bomber formations were essentially need to hit a single strategic target..they would literary dispatch the entire bomber force to knock out production from one factory…only 16% of bombs fell within a 1000 feet of the target…a bomber had a 1.2% chance of hitting a target of 100 square feet, it was estimated that you required 220 bombers to have a 90% chance of destroying a target. Where as a single F35 can put 12,000lbs of bombs through a window. Where… Read more »
Wow quick call the news papers, the two countries on NATO’s boarder surrounded by hostile nations have army’s that are larger than the island at the other side of Europe with the big navy. It really amazes me what anyone expects us to do with a big army in the current climate. Are we so desperate to subsidise Germany’s boarder now America is not doing it? It also worth pointing out that Poland and Turkey have always had bigger army’s than Britain, even when we ruled a third of the world. It’s a stupid comparison that highlights just how useless… Read more »
Well said, but logic is pretty useless here…facts serve no purpose here….emotions are all!
Agree, too many looking back at the “good old days”. Britain having a bigish army is a 20th century phenomenon that bankrupted us. It was done out of necessity because of two massive threats in Germany then the Soviets. Both are gone now p, no need for a massive army anymore.
We need a kick as deployable army with a big navy and cutting edge Airforce.
Aagh, does this mean my Khazi, at the end of the garden, is in danger!! That’s emotional. Tis where my thunking’s dun. 😭😱🤔🙃
We only need an army as big as we can actually deploy and maintain. It probably needs to be a bit bigger than it is at present and things like our MBT force needs to be the correct size…if you want to be able to deploy and maintain a tank regiment you need 3 regiments….so we should have three regiments of 56 challenges….. that’s 168 MBTs+ a maintenance pool+ attrition reserve+ training establishment that’s around 220 MBTs..going to 2 regiments and 150 MBTs is below what is needed for what we want of the army….we also need greater precision fires… Read more »
Really hoping we see a slight reshuffle in the DCP and the 3rd Armoured Regiment is retained.
Your rule of 3 ( army once had rule of 5 regards deployable Bdes and CS CSS up to 2015 ) should also apply to Armoured Bdes, but they did away with the 3rd one and now we have the DSRB that cannot deploy alone.
Hi yes in deed, the rule of three only works for a deploying and sustaining a tank regiment presence for around 18 months…after that you would be over deploying and breaking the present terms of service. The Maths is three regiments would not be enough for multi year sustaining a tank regimen presence..so the five is actual right I think….But I could not see a situation where we would be needing a sustained deployment of a tank regimen for over 18 months…so three works.
The focus should be on deployment in large strength rather than sustainment on an enduring operation.
Sustaining a tank force anywhere for 18 months is impossible, you basically need to base the tanks in that area like we did in Germany.
That rule of 5 was for enduring operations only and ensured a tour interval of 2.5 years (Harmony guidelines). It was a guideline more than a rule really and was not always achieved.
Yes I agree, still too much emphasis on light infantry battalions not based in deployable formations at the expense of heavier formations in a deployable division.
Fielding a mechanised division should be the major bases for the entire army outside of 16AAB 3 com and SF.
“Fielding a mechanised division should be the major bases for the entire army outside of 16AAB 3 com and SF.”
Yes, I agree. Though it is difficult, as many of those LI Bns do have roles to play that will need covering by something.
The army is now lopsided with so many light units, and too few “teeth” units, armour, artillery, Armoured or Mech Infantry, and other CS CSS.
I partially blame the cap badge mafia for that, who cares about a precious RE, RA or RLC regiment getting chopped, much better than a named infantry battalion. Not for me.
Think your math is a bit off! If you need 3 regiments to deploy 1, you don’t need 3x 56 MBTs to deploy 1 regiment!
Well since every UK armoured regiments consists of 56 MBTs….then yes you do…..each regimen has its amount of MBTs, these are swapped out to and from the maintenance pool…but they each have 56 MBTs….3 regiments require 3×56 MBTs…then to support those three regiments you have a maintenance pool, ( around 10% of the total..then a training establishment the finally an attritional reserve ( around another 10-15%j . That is why the Army maintained around 220 MBTs for three regiments and now it’s dropping to 2 it will maintain 150 MBTs…..
1 tank regiment is 56 tanks.
Completely agree, small expeditionary army, all be it with substantial armour rather than the boy-scout brigades 25K total deployable max effort + marines. Nothing stationed in Germany or Baltics 12 x SQ Fast jets at home with 5 expeditionary squadrons, and 3 SQ long range drone. MR handed over to FAA, two substantially enhanced CV air wings. 12 SSN, 4 SSBN 8 x 82, 10 x 26 and 16 x 32. 8 x OPV (with hanger) 2 x Albion (this time with a hanger and lifts), 4 Bay, 2 MCM mother ships + remotes. 4 RoRo. Transport, RFA , enablers… Read more »
Why nothing stationed in Germany or Baltics? You know where Russia is, right?
The main thing that springs out to me is…
How much of a dickhead Mr Francois appears to be.
“Mr Putin you don’t frighten me”…He’s obviously been watching too many Dads Army repeats on BBC2.
I think you have completely misunderstood his reference to Putin. He is simply saying that Putin would not have much to fear from UK armed forces. The real issue is what is expected of our armed forces. With the exception of the RAFs patrolling of UK airspace, much of our capability is deployed away from the UK, something likely to increase following the Integrated Review. If we were to concentrate our resources on defending the UK and just its near abroad, then the current budget ought to be sufficient. Over time, such a policy. might lead to different equipment choices… Read more »
Very little of the army is located, trained, tasked or roled for defending the UK homeland.
You read it wrong, he’s talking from the point of view of the poo tin stating the UK doesn’t frighten him.
Yes sorry speed reading & I missed the ‘If i am’ prefix to the “you are not frightening me” comment – which totally reverses the context…that’ll learn me…..
What could Russia attack us with tonight that we won’t know about until tonight? Answer: ICBM, SLBM, SLCM, Aircraft. The RAF QRA could deal with any aircraft Russia could attack us with tonight. Our own SSBNs will respond to any nuke hitting us. That just leaves SLCM. How many sonar listening stations do we have? Could we have a TAS in the North sea 24/7/365? This is the threat to tackle tonight.
This is what makes our close to non existant ground based air defence border on being criminally negligent. With our very limited number of jets it would only take a couple of SLCMs to get through to potentially wipe out a significant percentage of our combat strength. True, it would be an unlucky hit, but I believe you make your own luck to a degree and we are openly inviting an unlucky roll of the dice to kick us in the nuts… Then there are targets like nuclear power stations, whilst we may have moral standards that would stop us… Read more »
What nonsense. Is this some kind deluded Russian wet dream. Russia would cease to exist the next day.
I’m talking conventional warheads, not nuclear.
Doesn’t matter. You do realise that we have no borders with Russia right? Missiles are not invisible and if we are sending old kit to Ukraine to successfully shoot down Russian missiles what do you think new kit that exists in Russians neighbours would do. Is this some kind of juvenile fantasy computer game scenario. The Russians can’t even defeat the Ukraine!
You do realise sub launched missiles don’t come from over a land border right? Or is that too complicated to grasp?
It’s not our old kit shooting down missiles.
Russia doesn’t need to militarily defeat us to cause a lot of damage.
You do realise that we know where Russian subs are and that we have been tracking them for over 50 years right? And we have subs to, but more importantly NATO nuclear subs outnumber Russian nuclear subs by about 60/10.
The prevailing wind in Europe is West to East so hitting a Nuclear power station is pretty dumb, and besides which a containment bulding is pretty well built. As for lnocking out our Aircraft on the ground that is what we have HAS for. But if you look at the havoc a few well placed conventional weapons can have on crippling a country just look at the Ukraine. The worst thing for us in the UK is that the further we progress as a society the further we get from being able to deal with lack of day to day… Read more »
Agreed. Just a note, not all RAF stations have HAS, but you’re right on the CNI.
Good Morning 😉 No they don’t, but that is mainly due to the size of the Aircraft involved. The only way you could protect them would have to be dispersal to civilian Airfields (some still have the old V Bomber dispersals in place) and the other military airfields that still have a runway (Kinloss, Wittering. Or shove them at Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester etc and hide them in “plain” sight (that was a pun). But Lossie, Conningsby and Marham do have HAS and if you add the ones still at Leeming and Leuchers we probably have more HAS than active front… Read more »
I know you knew, was just being picky, sorry. You’re not wrong mate, there are plenty of HAS about.
The RAF did a minor dispersal exercise a while back. Guessing, maybe easier with transport Tanker ISTAR types as no dedicated munitions support needed. Whatever, there will be contingencies in place I’m sure.
I’m in agreement on the ideal organisation for the army.
Hi Tim – don’t forget all the deep cover Russian moles tucked away in Milton Keynes etc with their sabotage kits. Putin was KGB, they have history for penetrating the heart of the British establishment
It won’t be your Grandad’s war. First they would switch up the trolls. You probably wouldn’t notice because Internet bubbling would almost automatically ensure it was delivered to the most vulnerable and not be visible to the likes of you and me. Do you think, because we see a few trolls on hardened sites like this, that’s the extent of it? Having prepped the masses as best they can, they would attack our infrastructure and pair it up with some big lies blaming the UK government which will be swallowed by the credulous (in a similar way that several people… Read more »
“we would probably be all right, especially because the Americans would then come steamrolling in.” That’s the sickening attitude that if I was US president would really have me questioning just what I am doing propping up a bunch of European countries that should be more than capable of looking after themselves, but prefer to use me rather than take responsibility for themselves.
Russia is no longer a super power. It just looks like one because we would rather hide behind our bigger friend than accept responsibility for looking after ourselves.
Well said.
Well said Paul P and Marked.
Did you write Donald Trump’s speeches? Because that is exactly the point he was making when he was vilified in the UK and Europe over his NATO comments, and he was slammed as a “nutter” and an isolationist. It’s a point shared by a substantial percentage of Democrats and Republicans. Just because the messenger is deeply flawed doesn’t mean that the message is.
I’ll now pause and wait for all of the TDS sufferers to vent their spleens.
I said at the time it was the first (I think its still the only) thing he said that I agreed with. Standing back and looking objectively at what he said it was 100% bang on the money. Europe, including the UK in my view, have took advantage of the US to skimp on what should be their own responsibility of defending their freedoms. The population, wealth and industrial power of Europe should mean not a single US boot on the ground is needed to defend Europe. Note the above is all based on conventional defences, not a full on… Read more »
European NATO has 1.8 million personnel deployed in Europe. The USA has 100,000 personnel in all of Europe total.
Who do you think they are defending with 100,000?
Also when the US did defend Europe in the Cold War it did it to defend the North Atlantic, that is the exact reason Britain defended Europe as well.
Not to be nice to the west Germans but to make sure you fight your wars far away from home.
Exactly
Yaaaaawn!
Wasting time, talking about a very unrealistic scenario. 🤦
Well if Russia did attack us tonight managing complete strategic surprise we would be in the shit…but every nation would be in the shit if any other nation managed strategic surprise…it’s why we spend a lot on our ability to see what our enemies are doing….you prevent a surprise by being able to see and predict what your potential enemies are up to not standing to the walls at all times burning your capital and capabilities just incase.
That’s it, mate. Nations can’t just declare major war in a few hours without anybody knowing about it. The world just doesn’t work that way.
Our intelligence community are more sophisticated than I suspect many here realize.
Definitely mate. And also how the communicate with allies.
Arguments on the size and capabilities of our armed forces has rumbled on since we had a regular standing army, I agree the army is hugely under maned and has no real capability to project any meaningful power, yes technology has minimized the need for boots on the ground but what worry’s me more is the standard of training now, are we selecting a woke force that cries for compensation if their drill sergeant shouts at them or are we trying to ensure we have motivated hard service personnel who can cope with what the Ukrainians have endured over the… Read more »
“recent session the House of Commons Defence Committee raised critical concerns about the readiness of the UK’s armed forces”
Anyone else visualising a stable with a wide open gate …. That horse bolted decades ago…
The Government have the bare faced cheek to celebrate the might of our Armed forces, on Armed forces day, while they presided over rolling never ending cuts, that have left it a shadow of its former self….
The absolute nerve of them…
Talk about taking the piss…
Yep you have hit the nail on the head, I just think we will never see an end to cuts by whoever is in power as most of them are self serving civvies with no clue on the big bad world, but by god they know how to complete an expenses form !!, such is life must be time for a drink lol
HMG attitude to the forces isn’t much detached from their attitude to the NHS. They clapped & gave weasel word praise to them through Covid, but when it came to paying them properly they didn’t give a fig.
Mick, do explain why you think the army lacks ability to project meaningful power. Are you saying its too small or lacks firepower?
Too small, stretching manpower, not enough time between deployments and not capable of sustained projection on more than one area..
We don’t need a bigger army, assuming we could recruit to get one. The days of divisions and even brigades are over. We need an army fully ready with the RIGHT equipment able to react before 2030/2035. The RAF needs the additional aircraft and PILOTS we are all aware of and the RN needs to be able to go to sea with a credible force including it’s carriers instead of spending EIGHTY per cent of it’s time tied to a quay. For those who say there is no urgency please look at he world around you. At the moment we… Read more »
I could live with a small army if the funds went into making sure the navy and RAF had everything needed. The fact is they don’t though. We still spend billions on bits and pieces here and there (not looking at you ajax, honest…) without any service having the full capability it needs. It comes across as having no real end vision of what we want our forces to do.
More Attack Subs (and munitions) and more F35s (and munitions) to deter China. They couldn’t care less about the size of our Army because they’ll never be fighting it. They are the only weapons we will be able to engage them with if/when the ‘Special Military Operation’ begins against Taiwan and they are the only weapons that will deter them from doing it.
Bang on. We have an army that has been cut to the bone and really won’t be ready for anything much before 2030 at the earliest and ready to fight who. Two small brigades and limited artillery. Poland will have getting on for 2000 tanks;1500 SP guns and thousands of support vehicles so the British army.?
Money spent on the RN and RAF makes them more capable and deployable and powerful enough to make a real difference. Couple that with Intelligence gathering as Daniele says and we have our role for years to come.
Completely agree except it isn’t 80% its way above that.
Sadly I suspect you may be right.😔
Agree. RN, RAF, Intelligence community 1st. That is where we excell.
It’s got to be. We still have the opportunity of staying a world power if we use these assets correctly.😉
Why is 80% alongside a bad thing?
If your notice for sea is 48 hrs and your Operational Capability is R2-R4 whats the issue?
You dont see all of the Army’s regiments tanks, AFVs , trucks and infantry trundling around the UKs or NATOs fields and cities 200 days a year just in case someone does something or the RAF running 80% of its aircraft continuous air patrols with tanker support for 200 days a year.
Because the purpose of having a fleet is to be seen around the world, showing the flag and working up with allied states, not moored up in the UK. In any case who’s to say we can be ready for sea in 48 hours. Have we got the crews available to man the fleet. I very much doubt it.
Seems like the war in Ukraine is coming home to roost in Russia with an open mutiny against Mad Vlad now taking place.
Great…let Russia tear itself apart. The Russian frontline in Ukraine could collapse with infighting and civil war in Russia itself.
Ukraine just needs to continue keeping the pressure on, be patient and they might just be able to retake their entire country.
Mr Bell wrote: “”Seems like the war in Ukraine is coming home to roost in Russia with an open mutiny against Mad Vlad now taking place.”” Its very interesting how Prigozhin first move was to capture Rostov-on-Don (and apparently the entire Rostov oblast) taking control of the military HQ which houses the command centre for Russia’s joint group of forces in Ukraine as a whole , it is also home to the Russian southern military district command, whose 58th Combined Arms Army is fighting against Kyiv’s counteroffensive in southern Ukraine, let’s not forget it is also a critical logistical… Read more »
The key thing now is if one arm of the army or security forces declares support for Wagner. It can be seen that the army in this region have not yet taken sides either way, so at the moment the situation is on a knife edge. If any element of the establishment declares for Wagner or to end the war Putin is done. But without such a declaration Putin will survive but in any case he is now severely wounded and will have to end the war and try to save face.
OR wrote:
“”The key thing now is if one arm of the army or security forces declares support for Wagner””
Apparently already happening:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0200R5c/Opera-Snapshot-2023-06-24-153628-twitter-com.png
Agreed. Prigozhin could well be worse. Is worse.
Crimson Tide anyone? Life imitating art…
Morning PC.
I’m sorry, I actually had to look that up….! I’ve not seen it.
A very good film. Some eerie parallels with current events.
and now he’s off to Belarus after Putin has just deployed Nukes there…surely the plan is now obvious.
I think smoke and mirrors from the Russians -providing culpable deniability for next steps.
If I was Ukraine (and NATO) I would be more than a tad concenred about Wagners’ deportation’ to Belarus.
Well Prigozhin is apparently going there, but Wagner forces? Not so sure. Not seen any report they will follow, even if they’re allowed to exist and not absorbed.
Yeah I assumed he would be taking his cronies with him…Will be interesting to see what transpires.
Looking like at least some of Wagner forces may be following.
Maybe its just me but this is a tad concerning.
At the very least adding a different dynamic to the conflict , and at the worse destabilising the area even more than it currently.
i stand by my initial concern the ‘civil unrest’ was a con job.
Let’s see. Any movement of large numbers of forces whether Wagner or army will be noted and tracked. Ukraine have not left the northern border undefended. I’m more concerned about reports the nuclear plant on the Dnieper, forget it’s name, has been mined by the Russians.
These are the same clowns who kept banging on what a great fighting force UK & NATO was up against anybody with 2 brain cells knew Russian was one big weak paper tiger a long time ago . I don’t take much notice of these reports better going down the local butchers and asking him what he thinks on defence matters .
Hind sight is such a wonderful thing but I’d rather overestimate an enemy than underestimate him.
And when it comes to Russia Historically underestimating Russia is a serious no no,and to beack that up I’d ask you a question.
What have France (twice), UK (Twice), Turkey (Twice), US (once), Germany (twice) and Japan (once) all got in common ?
It’s a different world high tec world not old time war . Anybody with 2 brain cells knew Russia was never in a position to fight and win a war . Russian limits are attacking civilians or nerve gas attacks on civilians . Fighting trained troops in Ukraine or anywhere is a different thing .
Our armed forces have just trained loads of Ukrainians who are currently honing their skills on the battlefield. Should the UK be drawn into that or any other conflict much of the Army will be conscript with new divisions being built. That is the reality – in my view though the big issue is will we have the kit to arm & protect the conscripts?
Conscription means WW3 has started. Thats scary. I wonder where we would get the kit from, everything ranging from personal kit to vehicles, ammo, major weapons, comms kit etc. This stuff is not in storage.
Exactly. If we haven’t got it, can we manufacture it & if so what is the lead time? Echoes of PPE and Covid. We have a peacetime military however the purpose of a peacetime military is to prepare for war. These plans could be in a filing cabinet somewhere. Let’s hope so.😀
Hopefully the coming days should see the Russians exit from Ukraine begin. What happens next?
Not only is the conscripts’ kit not in storage there may not be many British companies who could quickly make uniforms, helmets, rifles, vehicles, radios etc.
I’ve heard all sorts of rumours and legends of what’s in store Graham. Some typical mates next door neighbour stories. Others, from as serving personnel to me 1st hand.
Like you, I er on the side of caution with these tales and think one only look in Donnington, Bicester, Ashcurch, Stafford to see what’s what. But you never know.
For many, many years – perhaps to the 70s – virtually nothing was thrown away at Depots, partly because we had so many depots, no-one costed storage, and there was inertia/laziness. Conducting full stocktakes, I believe, was not done. Then perhaps in the 80s things got more business-like, and the cost of storage became documented and was seen as an issue. So full stocktakes were done and parts of depots that had remained permanantly locked up were opened. There is a well established story that sometime in the 80s a major part of a hanger at Donnington that had been… Read more »
Thanks for that, makes sense. Good stories. 👍
Historical fact of interest. The British Army grew to 2.9m in WW2 thorogh conscription, although many were of course were fighting in the Far East and in far flung parts of the Empire (either fighting or on ‘Garrison duties’) – would be interesting to see how many were committed just to the European Theatre.
Not wanting to Back Cat but…
Portland Naval Base when it closed in the 90s and was handed over…Prior to that they did the usual inspection of stores and areas in the port. On the far harbour wall that attaches to the area of the old ARE there where arches built into the wall. They found barrels of Napoleonic era nails for Wooden hulled vessels…
Stores are called Stores for a reason!
Back Cat has got to be a Navy phrase! Great dit!
There will be no conscripts , Only parliament can ask the king to go to war, he will not and has been advised of the lawful decision, we are not at war and there is no agreement with the Ukrainians..NATO was never going to allow Ukraine into Nato
Not so. If there were war conscripts would be inevitable. It is the Government under the royal perogative that declares war. Parliament’s only contribution is that it appoints the Government. We support Ukraine under international law by supplying weapons for Ukrainians to defend themselves against an aggressor. Had Russia stayed out of Ukraine there would have been no need for Ukraine to join NATO however it now looks like it will be essential for the stability of the region.
So all the indicators were true Russia was on the tipping point of strife, it’s becoming a bit clear that Russia had become more of a warlord state in which the warlords agreed to to work together than an authoritarian state ( there were hints of this, one being the invasion Ukraine itself, which always seemed pushed , as you don’t invade in the mud season).It was pretty clear it was heading this way from a few weeks ago to be honest..the moment one Russian military faction had started shooting at another it was going down hill. What was said… Read more »
The one thing from this article that comes up time and time again is the dependence on the United States. My personal view with our very naive politicians today is that they mitigate risk by assuming that whatever happens in the world will be supported by the USA. Given the relationship with the Biden administration, they need to open their eyes to ensure we are a more capable nation willing to properly invest and support our high class but small military. Again, my personal view is that our current politicians are once again making the same errors with our military… Read more »
46 th u.s president JoeBiden, 46 th president of the united states, vice president kamala Harris, vice president Barack Obama, president of the united states, vice president of the united states, president of the united states seal of the, King charles lll no, queen, f16 fighting falcon, F16C, IRaq, Ukraine, f16 Block 70/72 , King charles lll no, queen Elizabeth Il, HM queen Elizabeth Il, HMS queen Elizabeth Il, hello united kingdom, north Vietnam, Republic of Vietnam, Bataillede Dien Bien phu, General, north Vietnam, Long live the King charles lll no, queen, f22 raptor, Armee Nationale Vietnam ien ne, Etat… Read more »
I will have a pint of whatever your drinking!!!
I’m guessing snake wine, I went crosseyed after a few of those….
Comes across as something like key trigger words for Echelon might be.
Thuan you need to go lie down in a quiet and dark room. Close your eyes and sleep it off. Cheers.
“Firing a standard M107 high-explosive (HE) projectile a maximum range of 18 km can be achieved. Maximum range firing an M549A1 HE Rocket Assisted Projectile (RAP) with uni-charge of five zones is 30 km.
Firing the new locally developed K307 high-explosive base-bleed projectile with asix-zonee charge, a maximum range of 40 km can be achieved with a chamber pressure of 52,000 psi and a muzzle velocity of 924 m/s. It can also fire the locally developed K310 dual-purpose improved conventional munition base-bleed round to a maximum range of 36 km”
LINK
I know this is living in cloud cuckoo land,,, but in this day and age,, our whole defence budget needs at least doubling! We need a regular army of at least 110000 , 400 MBT, 150 Typhoons, the 138 F35s, change some of them to B and get prince of wales converted to cat and trap. Need another helicopter carrier or 2, renew the Hercules, and save money by getting rid of these pen pushers!
Who knows, one day a government may actually look after our military! Oh look,, there’s a pig flying!
My major worry is the if things did kick off, there are many other, probably weaker nations, who are also relying on the US, and probably us. How thinly will the US forces be spread around, and will it be sufficient. UK should have its own missile defence. Defence of the realm should be number one priority. If we can’t defend ourselves, no point attacking.
I think many people on this site are literally living in the past, a past that never was, Russia wouldn’t get past Poland, never mind anyone else, and hasn’t had that capability for over 30 years.
The Northern fleet does not need to get past Poland, just Norway.
You mean before it is sunk! Russian “fleet” is a paper tiger, anyone that thinks otherwise hasn’t been paying attention. The only potential weapon of any potency left is their fleet of subs, conventional and nuclear. But unfortunately these are useless for any invasion!
It wont . It will go into its bastions of the Kara Sea and protect its Boomers.
NATO subs cued by SOSUS/IUSS would have a field day. A couple of Carrier Strike Groups would close off any access to the Atlantic by Subs, Ship or Naval Air regiments. The days of Red Storm Rising are long gone.
If anyone here knows the joy of me seeing a discussion on the situation the armed forces are in makes me smile. Looking at the forces and seeing how much they have dwindled over the years is sad. In a discussion I have had recently, there is a belief, if this country was attacked, it would not be able to defend itself, if it can, how long such a defence can be maintained without relying on other countries to do everything for us. I hope one day the now dwindled armed forces can come back up in numbers and also… Read more »
It all went down hill in the 1960s when the new Labour government cancelled the TSR2 aircraft, go forward to the late 1970s and our proper aircraft carriers are also cancelled ( the Harriers and the new smaller carriers did a good job in 1982 in the Falklands but were no substitute for the real thing). The real problem is our totally incompetent politicians who in most cases have never had a proper job and never worked in the big bad world and have little understanding of the military. Back in 2010 Camerons government cancelled the Harriers much to the… Read more »
“Back in 2010 Camerons government cancelled the Harriers much to the disbelief of our American allies.” Yes, they withdrew the last front line Squadron, No 1 Sqn I recall. The other two, No 3 and No 4 Sqns, plus the Sea Harriers of 800,801,809 NAS were already withdrawn by the previous Labour government. That needs saying as too often incorrect history is repeated that the Tories cut the Harriers, when most had already gone. Cutting a type in but a single front line Sqn was easy as the RAF also wished to preserve as many Tornado GR4 Sqns as possible… Read more »
👍
👍
Happy Armed Force’s Day 🇬🇧
Bravo. It should be on every news channel. Instead, we have Prigozhin and the Titan loss. The military should get more exposure and respect, then maybe recruitment might improve if their image is seen as a positive?
BBC Breakfast had pretty good coverage, but that’s about it. Shame UKDJ doesn’t mention it. The vast decrease in the number of airshows, ect, around the country, which must have a negative impact on recruitment. That’s what sparked my enthusiasm for aircraft and a military career. Less and less family’s have an association with the Armed Force’s these days.
Thanks Robert. I went to my town’s event. Great to see our military community ranging from army cadets to veterans with their vets badge proudly displayed, and supported by civilian townsfolk.
Glad you enjoyed it Graham. 👍🇬🇧
Commons Defence Committee inputs from committee members plus Dr Simon Anglim* from King’s College, London; Prof Justin Bronk* from Royal United Services Institute (RUSI); Nick Childs* from the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS);
Do the parties denoted * have any accountability to the Crown, Parliament or the Electorate?
Can anyone help? Thanks.
If you are asking could they be held to account for their testimony, the theoretical answer is yes if they deliberately lie. Contempt of Parliament can lead to fines or imprisonment, but the last case I’m aware of that led to detention was in 1880, Charles Bradlaugh. The most recent contempt was made by one Boris Johnson, who was not imprisoned.
At this point it maybe worth considering a report in Navy Lookout which summerised the status of the RN fleet. March 23.
It reported that the RN had 7 out of its total 18 frigates and destroyers available. ( soon to be 17).
Under the old rule of 3, wouldn’t you expect to have about 7 DD/FF available for new tasking?
The rule of three was OK for continuous deployment cycles but with crew changes now being the norm for OPV and certain long term deployed units its less important. Readiness and OC of units is what counts especially OC as that defines what you bring to the party for any given tasking.
Lets not tell the politicians, as it is a good excuse to get more ships funded than we need!
So we have more than one-third of our ships on, or available for, operations? That’s good news.
OC is OPCOM or OPCON?
Try these figures for the USN as of 20 June across the world and it like the UK does not include Subs but does include assault ships and carriers…
Total Ships–297
Deployed— 101 (USN 68. USNS 33)
Underway— 69 ( USN Deployed units 48 Local units 21)
Not totally relevant to the post above, but did note @ukdefencejournal that 2 more F-35 joined the orbat yesterday at Marham. Btw love UK DJ
It makes me sick being so dependent on NATO. (i.e the U.S) god forbid when the next isolationist (republican) government comes into power… It’s a shame our government are so incompetent, you’d have thought creating jobs through defence procurement would be a win for both sides of the house. Even after the war, defence isn’t anywhere near the top of the to-do list (just look at the top 5 priorities “StOp tHe BoAtS🤡”) and labour haven’t mentioned anything apart from “making sure we are committed to our NATO obligations”. Absolutely bloody clowns all of them and the media on both… Read more »
So here we go again… another feckin ejit ‘raised concerns’ about the deliberate ‘criminal’ undermining of the UK Armed Forces. This ‘fellow’ is a member of the Defence Committee, and would have people believe that he is/was unaware of the lack of ability of the Army to defend the country, let alone provide NATO, with a credible size force, to fulfil it’s NATO obligations. After getting rid of Putin, maybe we could hire the wagner group, to fight our battles for us… after all it will probably be cheaper than expecting the US to do things for us. No wonder… Read more »
I think Biden was once again expressing his anti-British sentiment that he thinks he is obliged to show as a ‘plastic Paddy’.
I think he needs to go and have a lie down – before he falls down …again!
Dr Anglim gives a very brief answer regarding the army.
He says that if the UK were attacked tonight that the army would deploy a two-brigade ‘armoured’ division within the UK – clearly he does not include 1DSRBCT, probably because too few of its units have restructured, although they are under command.
There are other options for Military Home Defence (MHD) which could include the use of 7 Lt Mech BCT and 4 Lt BCT (although CS/CSS in 4x is AR, and would not be in place tonight so very limited sustainability) brigades in 1xx – and also 16AA Bde.
I wonder how many of 12 and 20’s armoured vehicles are not even in the UK, but Munchengladbach CHE.
Him suggesting the army deploy an “Armoured Division” in the UK….🙄 in reality we are talking armed police, the MPGS, RAF Police and MDP for installations and KPs and whatever they could scrape together for ops. Probably one of the many LI Bns garrisoned at different places around the country. As you often say, Brigades task org taking bits and pieces from anywhere and everywhere!
A ridiculous scenario the armed forces are not organised for.
Good point about the kit stored in Munchengladbach – in Store Equipment Fleet (Germany) — ‘a store of vehicles and other equipment for exercises and operations around Europe’. I think back to Whole Fleet Management (WFM) days when a unit held only part of its equipment scale (perhaps just one sub-unit worth and plus BnHQ/RHQ kit), the rest being held in depots – I am out of date about this. Question was about the UK being attacked and the man goes on about us having a depleted ‘armoured division.’ He should have talked about the effort available for MHD and… Read more »
I think they’d use anything available.
And what would the point be? Taking territory is absurd, so we’re talking of raids? Why?
It’s all moot, we’re not being attacked in that manner. Still fun to speculate, but amazed it’s even discussed at committee level, as they must surely know what the threats are.
Cyber. Sabotage. Terrorism, be it conventional, suicide, or CBRN. And if it came to it, sea and airborne attacks on installations are the issues.
I agree. Even Hitler did not have his heart in Op Sealion – many think preparations for it (and the preliminary Battle of Britain) was intended to pressure Churchill into sueing for peace, thus securing Hitler’s western front. Very bad idea for any hostile nation to invade the UK – its very difficult, costly, needs specialist forces and kit, taked time and casualties would be high – little tangible benefit to the aggressor. In the Cold War, the threat of Spetsnatz raids on UK KPs was considered a possibility if the Cold War had turned hot and related MHD was… Read more »
If Russia attacked the United Kingdom tonight, you can have as many brigades readily available as you like, because they wouldn’t attack in a conventional manner. That’s why we are part of NATO. A conventional attack would be a vulnerable NATO country who are not equipped with weapons we are not permitted to discuss.
Tonight it is difficult to know who (if anyone) rules Russia and if they have a chain of command who would all be willing to attack a NATO country in such a way that would likely ruin everyone’s day & for no reason.
Can Russia continue a war in Ukraine &/or will there be a civil war. Many unanswered questions but I doubt Russia will be looking for further problems.
But not everything we expect & need the forces to provide.
We’re weaker by far than ever in over 100 years.
What we’ve become has been so weak that Putin & Xi feel very confident.
Just like 1981 planned cuts made Galtieri (Head of the Argentine junta at the time) feel confident enough to seize the Falklands. If he’d waited just one more year for the proposed cuts to take effect he’d have done far better.
Galtieri believed the mood music coming out of the Thatcher Government meant they were not interested in even trying to recapture the islands. He under estimated the weak and feeble woman & the British. Big mistake. Thatcher knew she had appeared weak and resolved to never make that mistake again. Putin has bitten off more than he can chew and Xi is aware of China’s strengths & weaknesses and is trying to improve his position. The solution with China is to move to help other Countries in the area protect themselves until Xi understands that trade not force is his… Read more »
Who said drugs don’t work ? They obviously do when some clowns believe China will attack the UK.. Some of the quotes concerning the f35 are now getting silly pathetic BS
UK never going to be invaded . Idiots talk about China Russia having large standing armies a few facts for you they DON’T they simply make numbers up to look good I very much doubt Russia had 20k real trained troops before Ukraine it’s bad when prisons are being emptied to bolster numbers that proved in reality Russia had very little to offer ..UK got many times more trained pro troops than Russia in the real world. Some clowns believed Russian fake numbers published for useful idiots to swallow it will be 100% the same with China fake numbers. I’ve… Read more »
Not another b***** committee! 😒
“Action” stations please…lol 😁
General Carter’s comments on NL Twitter regarding T45s being the principal air defence system for the UK mainland plus a couple of Sky Sabre. Great! Why is it so difficult then either to get more SS or have Samp/T Aster for GBAD, or both, same missiles, shared inventories, build on already existing Anglo-French-Italian relationship?Hopefully something will come from the Anglo-Polish work on CAMM-ER/MR or whatever it is. All seems so opportune. Hope the UK won’t miss out.
I was involved in an aircraft simulator project 35 years ago as a military liaison between industry and MOD(PE). I was struck by the glacially slow progress and pointless meetings, particularly from the civil servant running the MOD(PE) end of it. Seems not much has changed.
Our defence has been in decline for years thanks to excessive unwarranted defence cuts by the politicians. Its a bit pathetic to say we can depend on the US. We shouldn’t have to.
We couldn’t even retake the Falkland Islands now let alone a real big war.
How in the name of the wee man could we not take back the Falklands, I’m expecting a great answer here.
What do we lack such that we could not retake the Falklands?
BTW, that was generally regarded as the biggest air-sea conflict since WW2 – with land forces action too, of course.
Barnes is not worth a reply tbh .
Sponge ..You are seriously deluded pal .
At last a Tory with some forward thinking common-sense! Clearly there is an internal battle for them between the spend more taxes on defence and those cutting defence to save tax! He is merely echoing our own complaints for the last 20 or 30 years! Though it should be noted that there remains a reliance on the US cavalry coming over the hill, by which time it may be too late! However unlikley we still have to be able to fend of an effective attack, with our depleted air defences, reduced and easily eliminated naval resources, and a tiny tiny… Read more »
How are Russia or anybody else going to invade the UK ? The UK a tiny island if needed 7 world class hunter killer subs ready to patrol what in reality is a small area of water I wouldn’t like to be sat on a troop carring ship knowing the deadly 7 are waiting to destroy any hostile ships . Russia can’t successfully fight a war on its own door step had the Falklands been Russian the Argies would have had a easy victory .. No way China could sail from the South China seas to attack the UK Chinese… Read more »
NATO countries need to focus on their particular needs and what they can bring to the table. The UK should focus on its naval forces, Poland,Germany etc.on Army and production lines. The Dutch, Belgians on electronic warfare and help build the rocket shield. France has the most advanced radar capabilities through Thales and so on. Right now no one can attack the UK but production of new ships airplanes etc usually take 10 years and more. If you find out 10 years from now Russia has rebuilt and ramped up it’s forces together with China …. well you’re late to… Read more »
Jarvis, you advocate ‘role specialisation’, in the interest of bringing the best contribution to NATO. However the UK has commitments outside NATO, so would need to maintain strength in all 5 environments (Sea, Land, Air, Cyber, Space). We have always had a tradition of coming to the aid of European neighbours threatened by or experiencing land invasion…and that means at least a moderate armoured warfare capability – we have the bare minimum today in just one ‘armoured division’ albeit it needs restructuring to recreate the third manouevre brigade containing Infantry. Clearly we also have other army assets that can contribute… Read more »
After 13 years of conservatives in government and the pitiful ex forces minister Mark (action man toy) Francois the wannabe Johnny 7 it’s no wonder the armed forces and everything else in Britain is a complete shambles and not fit for purpose.
I’m a frequent observer of this website. Have never commented until now. I agree that the Uk armed forces are in need for overhaul / restructuring / modernisation and nobody that has an interest in defence would complain of further funding! But this really is pointless discussion. If Russia or China attacked the UK tonight, then they would have had to sneakily cross the continent of Europe in their hundreds of thousands or have sailed almost 2/3 of the way around the globe completely unnoticed in such numbers that would be impossible to hide! If Russia or china attacked the… Read more »
We are the 6th highest spender on military in the world, yet every arm of our armed forces is under strength, and we depend on the US
The mismanagement of our defence spending is criminal!
Russian trolls attention please . Russia a fighting a war on its own border up against a poor country and Russia are losing how on earth would Russia cross Europe and fight NATO countries who’ve got massive serious power .Russia tried and failed to take Snake island also got its flag ship sunk for the cheek of it .
Not much discussion on readiness in this piece on readiness; one chap instead quotes part of the British Army Orbat, then prefers to talk about the Polish and Turkish armies Orbats. Then talks about bringing the brigade (its just two BGs and a bde HQ, not a full bde) in Estonia ‘up to divisional strength’. Who says we would want the whole of 3xx in Estonia in a few weeks time if the Russians are attacking the UK homeland tonight (which was Mr Francois’ premise). Prof Bronk said we would probably be alright if the Russians came along tonight because… Read more »
That sums up quite nicely the knowledge that so many upstairs have regards defence in this country. Scary isn’t it.
This is absolutely disgusting and I hope you all will not vote either blue labour, or red labour next year!?
We have tens of thousands of migrants arriving, we have 7 mil Brits out of work, we have defence on its knees, a govt that is lost at sea, a fatted state. Where did the 37bn for track and trace go?? There is literally no one to save us. I despair
And there is the problem. Relying on the US to defend us. Its pathetic.
OT, but has anyone seen media reports that current CGS (Gen Sir Patrick Sanders) is being forced out next year as he is criticising army manpower numbers and age of the kit?