ASRAAM Block 6 reached Initial Operating Capability on Typhoon on the 1st of April 2022.

Jeremy Quin, Minister for Defence Procurement, stated:

“The Block 6 standard Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile has been successfully integrated onto the Typhoon aircraft with Initial Operating Capability formally declared on 1 April 2022.”

ASRAAM Block 6 standard, developed under the ASRAAM Sustainment programme, is expected to enter service on the Typhoon in 2022, and the F-35 in 2024. It has new and updated sub-systems, built-in cooling and a new British-built seeker with more pixels. As it uses no US-made components, it could be exported without ITAR restrictions.

Why does that matter? Well, according to this source, a previous attempt to sell the missile to Saudi Arabia was scuttled because of objections from Washington. The previous missile variant’s seeker is made in America, thus requiring export approval from the United States.

Previous versions of ASRAAM are in service with the Royal Air Force as its ‘Within Visual Range’ anti-air missile.

According to MBDA:

“In Within Visual Range (WVR) air combat, the ability to strike first is vital. A pilot engaging an enemy needs a missile that reacts more rapidly than ever before with the speed and agility to maximise the probability of a kill, regardless of evasive target manoeuvres or the deployment of countermeasures. ASRAAM has proven this capability. ASRAAM accepts target information via the aircraft sensors, such as the radar or helmet mounted sight but can also act as an autonomous infrared search and track system. The RAAF has demonstrated successful ‘over the shoulder’ firing in Lock On After Launch (LOAL) mode against target drones that were behind the wing-line of the launch aircraft.”

Last year, a British Typhoon jet shot down a hostile drone over Syria after the aircraft was deemed to “pose a threat to Coalition forces in the area”. The Ministry of Defence said that the engagement took place when drone activity was detected above the At Tanf Coalition base in Syria.

British Typhoon jet shoots down hostile aircraft over Syria

“As the drone continued on its track, it became clear it posed a threat to Coalition forces. RAF Typhoons conducting routine patrols in the area were tasked to investigate. Despite the small size of the drone making it a very challenging target, it was successfully shot down using an Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile (ASRAAM) and the threat eliminated – a tribute to the skill and professionalism of Royal Air Force pilots.”

The engagement took place on the 14th of December.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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178 COMMENTS

  1. It’s excellent news that we’ll now be able to export it without asking for permission. Without a superpowers armed forces we need to market/tailor as much of our kit to export markets as possible if we’re going to get economies of scale.

      • Agreed about KSA in principle, but I think that a lot of US’ concerns were more market share based than moral. That happens a lot, protecting US manufacturers.
        But the fact that ASRAAM is ITAR-free and already cleared for carriage on F-35 may mean we can pick up some decent orders from all the new Lightning operators- particularly in Europe. Unless they can make AIM-9X particularly finanically appealing.

        • Considering the USA sells Saudi the AIM 9X sidewinder seems very much political/industrial concern rather than human rights or the Yemen civil war considering also they have approved sales of Paveway IV to Saudi that were used in Yemen.

          The American political system is so blatantly corrupt it’s really hard to be their Allie some times. American exceptionalism knows no bounds like criticising China for failing to abide by the UN law of the sea well also refusing to join up or recognise the UN law of the sea themselves. Now they want Putin tried by the international court for war crimes but they are not a member of the ICC.

        • I would rather not, if it means selling to countries with seriously questionable human rights and ones that are highly likely to use their equipment on their own people once their oil wealth devalues. Defence industry is worth very little to the economy, so the arguement for supporting it is questionable, plus there are plenty of better options to sell to.

          • Not so much the weapon – more the moral standpoint- if you can achieve that sellng arms of course….

          • Blair introduced an ‘ethical’ foreign policy when he got in. The UK defence industry more than halved in size and has never recovered but questionable regimes had no problem aquireing arms.

          • Do you know if that policy was an alignment with EU policies? I find it hard that Blair would make choices on a morality basis, rocks on the beach have more of a heart than that corrupt pos.

          • It wasn’t aligned with French policies ! No I think it was a bone thrown to the left to keep them happy.

          • Just because you disagree with him politically doesn’t make him corrupt.

          • Apologies but the man entered the post worth circa £1 million pounds, 7 years later when he left he spent over £30 million on properties.

            7 x an annual salary of £175k does not give the ability to spend £30+ million. The man is corrupt and used his wife’s businesses to channel millions of pounds of over paid legal contracts through.

          • You are of course assuming that was his only job. Like many politicians they do multiple jobs. Doesn’t mean they are corrupt.

          • More likely to be used on Iranian drone and aircraft to be honest. There’s little difference between the 2 . Although I give Saudi a high chance of change in the next 30 years than Iran.

        • We always have a choice , its something we can hide behind- I see what you are saying but there may(should?) come a time when governments take more of a moral stance – difficult to arbiter though I agree.
          I personally still wouldnt sell to Saudi.

          • So long as we accept that companies, factories and design teams will move abroad or go bust it’s an argument we can have.

          • They behead people – they killed that journalist in their own embassy …I have no truck whatso ever with the saudi’s …I wouldnt sell arms to them period.

          • G wrote:

            They behead people – they killed that journalist in their own embassy …I have no truck whatso ever with the saudi’s …I wouldnt sell arms to them period.

            Good point, but how do you feel about each and every muslim in the Uk, seeing as they all subscribe to the very same intolerent mindset that the saudis subscribe to. As I said I have no love for any Islamic country or even for any Muslim, but my post was about the misinfomation promoted by iran post 2015 in which to try and offset SA miltary advantage which saw Irans proxysuffer a reverse. That Iran which holds a knife to the jugular of the vast majority of the world Oil at the straits of Hormuz. That Iran which over the weekend revealed its latest long range ballistic missile. That iran which subscribes to the 12th Iman. Which means unfortunatly until we can curb our addiction to Hydrocarbons we are wedded to islamic oil.

            Funny enough the Islamic country which has made the biggest move in which to shed the intolerence infused into its relgious DNA…Saudi Arabia.

      • Its actually a more complex argument than just not selling arms. Saudi and other ME countries are increasingly buying arms from China. Currently we do have some sort of leverage over them if they migrate entirely to Chinese weapons. We may occupy a morale high ground but things on the ground physically may be a whole lot worse. Not sure that would make many feel better.

      • Why not, it’s an air to air missile and the Houthis don’t have fighters, so it’ll be used defensively against stones. it’s more likely to used against Iran if that ever flares.

        The yanks probably prevented export In the hope they could get a sidewinder sale from them.

    • Selling arms to KSA.
      I worked there for the UK Govt doing work that involved monitoring the performance of certain equipments and certain UK Contractors. Its a sensitive subject but it was exceptionally interesting and rewarding work.(job satisfaction rewarding .. Not brown envelopes rewarding!)

      My boss always had this as his take. If you fancy an extra 5 pence on your basic rate of income tax for holding the moral high ground then that is what not selling to KSA will cost you.

      Ask most UK tax payers if they want to pay an extra 5 pence in the pound on the base rate and they will tell you to do one.

    • I said the yanks change is, now we have this keep it, don’t sell it off, they wanted our lightning, we never sold it them it was faster than theirs, same as our V bombers that Lee like a fighter, we must keep I been working with typhoons past 4 years

  2. Very good news. The seeker upgrade will improve detection and help to reject countermeasures.

    ASRAAM is not just within visual range but a medium range missile. It outranges other short range missiles like the AIM-9X, Python, Archer etc.

    A Meteor/ASRAAM UK plane is an formidable prospect.

  3. ASRAAM combined with a Helmet Mounted Display is a deadly combination, and is making thrust vectoring a less appealing capability. Speed and altitude = energy and puts extended range into weapons, this combined with situational awareness is king. ASRAAM also tracks and can engage at BVR ranges meaning as soon as you have fired your AMRAAM, ASRAAM is already tracking and ques the pilot through his HMD. ASRAAM even transformed the capability of the not very agile Tornado F3 back in the day. And achieved a 12/1 kill ratio in it’s final Red Flag in 2009 against F15, F16 and F18s. Mainly due to having superb Situational awareness with link16, and the capability of ASRAAM/AMRAAM, and some cunning crews 👍🇬🇧

    • Absolutely, I’ve never understood the concept of thrust vectoring for anything (except the Harrier!) All it means is you sacrifice energy.

      Flying against an aircraft like our near future Typhoon, with Radar 2, updated IRST, block6 Asraam and updated Meteor, then you will simply be a large easy target hanging in space and ready to play host to a Meteor!

      Speed and excess energy, plus first look and target lock, means your opponent is going to have a very bad day!

      They will clear the sky’s of all before them, who needs stealth…..

      • Exactly. Thrust vectoring looks good at airshows, but that’s about it. I does have advantages. But it’s expensive, heavy, and more maintenance. Frontline pilots would rather have more situational awareness and networking capabilities. And trusty ASRAAM always saved the day. And the last thing any fighter pilot wants to do, is lose energy. or you are dead, regardless of whatever you are flying. Thrust vectoring brings advantages in the supersonic fight, but you would need to be in a very expensive F22 to see the benefits.

        • Even in a US report I read an F22 in a short range engagement with a Typhoon was reported as being at a clear disadvantage even with its thrust vectoring, it was deemed necessary to take a Typhoon out before it can be detected or closed down into a high manoeuvre environment except at very high altitudes. That made me think again about the reasons thrust vectoring, despite being offered by RR has never been taken up, reasons I had previously considered revolved around the cost of so doing.

        • A thrust vectoring system was developed for the Typhoon and is still probably sitting in a warehouse somewhere, its main advantage was about a 5% improvement in fuel efficiency (and consequently range) and improved low landing speed. It can obviously help you do silly things at airshows too…

      • Thrust vectoring combined with digital flight controls gives you some advantages when transiting to supersonic flight, due to when the centre of pressure changes. Thrust vectoring can help rebalance the aircraft, when there isn’t enough fuel to pump around.

        It is also very helpful when flying at much higher altitudes. As you fly higher and where the air gets thinner, mechanical flight controls need to deflect more and more to make a reaction. Thrust vectoring can help, especially when the aircraft has two separated engines. Then you can use differential thrust as well as thrust angling. 3D exhaust control is better in this regard than 2D, as you can also include yaw, rather than just pitch and roll. Through with a 2D exhaust, you can generate some yaw by differential thrust.

        Yes, you can use it for hot dog air show manoeuvres, like the cobra etc. But doing these in air combat will significantly and quickly bleed off speed, you’re using the whole underbelly of the aircraft as an airbrake after all! Thus setting you up as an easier target, but which also then requires lots of reheat (fuel) to generate energy to accelerate again. The main advantage is to help point the nose, when at high angles of attack for within visual range missiles and gunnery. However, with a helmet mounted display and very high off-boresight capable missiles, it’s not really needed.

        Radar2 will not negate stealth. It will still have its issues detecting a stealthy aircraft, that have radar cross sections measuring 0.01m2 and lower. It will likely pump out more effective radiated power than the Captor-M, due to it being an AESA, as more energy can be directed in the narrower beam, along with substantially less sidelobes. But RF still behaves the same when hitting radar absorbent material (RAM). It just means that the Typhoon will be able to detect such an aircraft slightly sooner than the Typhoon using the older radar. For example 40km compared to 50km.

        I would amend your statement: “Speed and excess energy, plus first look and target lock, means you opponent is going to have a very bad day!”

        To the following: Speed and excess energy, plus first look and first to fire, means you opponents will have a very bad day!

        • Agree Davey, but the fringe benefits simply aren’t worth the huge additional expense and complexity.

          Re radar 2, it’s interesting, as you say the Captor M is still very capable, but Radar2 will have many benefits, much lower probably of intercept being one of them, especially as we now know Russian equipment is not as capable as once thought….

          Rumor has it that the captured avionics examined from a downed Su35 in Ukraine proved somewhat unimpressive, by all accounts.

          The Su57 allegedly has a much higher radar cross section than the Russians would have us believe, according to the boffins who have analyzed the available data.

          The above means a well trained Typhoon pilot, with the sensors and weapons available to him, will eat both for breakfast…

        • Top post!…summed it up better than I ever could.
          Off bore sight missiles and advances in helmet technology have rendered thrust vectoring an expensive unnecessary luxury. However great detail Davey with regards to supersonic/high altitude flight…will be interesting to see if the twin engined Tempest goes down the thrust vectored route?…surely they’ll be some dimensional thrust control …but perhaps not in the sense of the current understanding and more in a ‘trim’ capacity.

          • For Tempest, it would depend (as with all trade-offs).
            The larger and more expensive Tempest gets, the less the extra cost and weight of TVC would add (in % terms).
            It would also depend on how much range is prioritised (traditionally, the RAF hasn’t really cared much about range during design, and then every time regretting it). I would estimate the extra weight would be a net negative for climb performance (unless the aircraft was already very heavy).

            But really, I think the biggest problem would be the impact on RCS and thermal management. On the one hand, if you can trim using TVC, you don’t have to deflect the control surfaces so much, reducing RCS, but the complex nozzle, I’m sure would be more difficult to make stealthy. The F-22 has done it, but that was a very expensive aircraft, I doubt we’ll be spending so much on Typhoon.

      • Thrust vectoring for supersonic cruise has proven a decent increase in efficiency compared to fixed nozzles.

      • Some info on the subject from the experts and the advantages.

        Thrust-Vectoring Upgrade for Typhoon Eurojet EJ200?
        https://defense-update.com/20110209_typhoon_tvn.html

        “The advantage to pilots is superior low-speed and high angle-of-attack manoeuvrability, compared to conventional-thrust aircraft, says Second Lieutenant Aaron Hoke, a propulsion engineer on the U.S. Air Force team that manages the Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor program at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio.”

        https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/how-things-work-thrust-vectoring-45338677/

      • Thrust vectoring is like VIFF for the harrier. It looks impressive at an air show. It can be effective in combat too but it’s a one shot deal, if it fails to produce a kill shot you are dead as you’ve lost all speed. VIFF was seriously over rated, thrust vectoring perhaps less so, but still not the magic capability its played up to be.

  4. Quite apart from the ethical considerations, I’d hope that anything cutting edge isn’t shared to protect our technological edge.

    • Given the alignment between Saudi and Russia on oil production, why would we continue favoured nation status for Saudi? There have to be some consequences for selfish decisions opposite to our national interest. Allowing Saudi to share our technology with Russia seems to put our people in danger not to mention that they have no enemies who require ASRAAM to be overcome…

        • Hi TR. I can’t reply to your original message me fir some reason. A bunch of comment’s seem to have disappeared from this thread. But as for thrust vectoring for Typhoon, Yes, it was developed, and test bench tests took place. I just think with the advances in weapon,radar,situational awareness technology, the advantages of thrust vectoring or being eroded. And it does bring advantages certainly with slow high alpha maneuvering and super cruise performance with trim and fuel consumption. But, those advantages haven’t out weighed the overall cost of retrofit, the extensive rewrite of the flight control software, and the extensive flight test programme that would be required. The Typhoon customers would rather spend the money on Radar2, Striker 2 HMS, and all the new weapons coming online and improving the defensive aids systems. 👍

  5. More POSITIVE news I know the wee doom doom boys don’t like it but another slice of U.K. tech ingenuity.👍🏻💯🇬🇧

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

    • It’s great news. It’s best for a British missile to have British parts. Asraam really is in its own class between short range and medium range and I think that makes it world beating.

    • Yep. Positive news, and only 11 comments. If this was ‘ASRAAM blk 6 delayed until 2028’ it would be 111 comments. 😄

        • 😄🤣 I mean, Typhoon should be able to carry 36 ASRAAMs, on every single training sortie, otherwise its a national disgrace 😄

          • And why only one pilot, every Typhoon should have 6 pilots, all carrying fighting knives, with the ability to launch Trident via a super duper space level secret comms, which can also set of Icelandic volcanoes, otherwise it’s a fuckin disgraaaaaaaaace and we will never win any wars against the Martians!!!! 🤪!

          • Sod it, just buy two Death Stars, but do we have enough Tie Fighters to fill them 🤔. about 20k should do it. But we might have to skip the Mk41VLS for the proton torpedoes. Disssssssssgrace……….🤣

          • 🤣 It could. But I have to be up early for work. Why isn’t more of my tax going towards a 15% defence budget! …..Disssssssssssssgrace 🤣😄 👍

          • Robert it’s all about control of the spice! Control the spice control, the universe. The spice must flow.

  6. All of the RAAF F/A-18A/B Classic Hornets have now been retired, so has ASRAAM, the last flight was late last year.

    The 24 Super Hornets, 11 Growler and 50 delivered (out of 72) F-35A aircraft use AIM-9X, AMRAAM and a range of other US made weapons.

    In our part of the world it makes more sense to have platforms and weapons common to our major defence partner, eg, the US.

    • Yea agree with you there. With a smaller force of 24 super hornets it’s best to stick to the US supply lines. I think the legacy hornets couldn’t carry amraam so paying for asraam integration was worth it for the range it gives over legacy sidewinders available at the time.
      Good mix of aircraft the F35A and super hornets/growler.

      • Actually the RAAF Classic Hornets were equipped with both AMRAAM and ASRAAM (they replaced the original AIM-7M Sparrow and AIM-9M Sidewinder).

        They also carried the full range of unguided and guided weapons such as the Mark 8x series, GBU-1x series, JDAM and JDAM-ER and Harpoon Blk II.

        Apart from the ASRAAM integration, the other ‘non standard’ weapon integrated was JASSM (now retired too).

        To replace the ‘lost’ JASSM capability, JASSM-ER and LRASM will be integrated onto the Super Hornet fleet and eventually F-35A fleet too.

    • With your F-35 buy, does that not bring ASRAAM back into consideration? I know it’s external carriage only, but it’s already cleared (pretty sure it doesn’t matter if it’s F-35A or -B when it comes to the external pylons).

      • But ASRAAM is not integrated onto Super Hornet and Growler.

        What would be the point of having to stock both AIM-9X and ASRAAM, plus AMRAAM?

        Too complicated, it’s far better for the RAAF to stick to the USAF configuration for F-35A, and the USN configuration for Super Hornet and Growler.

        Commonality of configuration is very important for sustainment, and also for future coalition operations where there would be a common ‘pool’ of weapons, spares, etc.

        • Ah, my mistake, I thought you were replacing the SH and Growler! You’re right, if you’re flying a mixed fleet, then keep the same weapons for all.

        • The Australian stockpile of ASRAAM will have a significant number of years left in ‘life’ as they were purchased after the UK ones. I’d expect the Australian’s to retain them in the stockpile as a war reserve until life expiry. They did have AIM-9L and M in their stockpile until very recently (and might still have) for the same reason.

          • They may well be kept in storage, but unless the RAAF spends the time and money to integrate them to the current operational aircraft, they’ll probably stay in storage until disposal (we’d probably be better off selling them if possible).

            When the Classic Hornets retired end of last year, the JASSM capability was also retired too.

            The RAAF isn’t integrating JASSM onto any other current aircraft, instead, the replacement capability will be longer range JASSM-ER.

            It’s not the first time weapons have retired when the platform carrying them retires, back when the F-111C fleet retired, so did the AGM-142 Have Nap missile.

          • John
            I believe Australia was using the AIM-9L only on the Hawk armed trainer (its an old missile). Since the Australian Hawks, I believe, recently had their avionics upgraded to UK spec, could the ASRAAM be used as the AIM-9L replacement? ASRAAM has, I thought, been integrated?

          • DJ,

            I haven’t heard/read anything regarding a ‘weapons’ upgrade being performed to the Hawk 127 fleet during that last upgrade, which was completed in 2019 (The official RAAF website mentions them being equipped with AIM-9M).

            It was reported two months ago that the 33 Hawks are going to be put through another upgrade/life extension so that the fleet will operate out to 2031.

            Again no reports/details of a weapons upgrade though.

            The other thing to consider is the Hawk fleet is used to train pilots before they move onto F-35A, F/A-18F and EA-18G, which are all armed with AIM-9X, so it would probably be more useful if they at least ‘emulate’ that same missile during training.

          • ASRAAM should be immediately compatible with F-35A. The software is available to all users once a single user gets it, in this case the UK. It uses the same pylons as AIM-9X, same attachment points etc. Using it should just be a software download. I’d expect most Australian personnel to be proficient in its use as many have directly transferred from the legacy Hornet fleet.

          • It might be an idea to have the Australian asraam missiles utilised as surface to air missiles in the sky sabre system.

          • Very different missiles I’m afraid, different seekers, a tip over mechanism is required as part of the build. No 2 data link to speak to the system.
            The best you could do would be a lash up like the Norwegian’s have adopted for their IRIS-T missiles.

    • It also means your Sidewinder armed F35s have a severe disadvantage to the UK ones, armed with ASRAAM, As they have to get a lot closer before they can fire. It will get worse when Meteor comes in to service.

        • OK, in a possible future scenario. A F35 equipped with Sidewinder AIM-9X II is facing off head to head against a J20. How it got in to this situation doesn’t matter! The J20 is similarly armed with the PL9C, a missile with similar performance to an older AIM-9L.

          Without going into to much detail. Both the PL9 and Sidewinder have a similar range, but the 9X has a better seeker, so it should detect the target using its own seeker sooner than the PL9. However, if the J20 has an infrared missile approach warning system (MAWS), it should be able to detect a missile launch out to 5km or more depending on the MAWS sensitivity.

          So in theory the J20 could launch a PL9 in the direction of the detected missile launch, which would have both aircraft within the firing envelopes of each others missiles.

          Compare this to a F35 armed with ASRAAM. ASRAAM uses a 6.5″ (166mm) diameter rocket, whereas Sidewinder and PL9 and nearly all other short range IR air to air missiles use 5″ (127mm) dimeter rockets. This means the ASRAAM has a higher initial specific thrust and therefore a higher terminal velocity. Which translates to a shorter transit time as well as a longer maximum engagement range.

          For the J20 it means, that it might detect the missile launch via its MAWS. But it wont be able to fire back, as the target is outside the engagement envelop of the PL9. The the F35 armed with ASRAAM can stay safely out of the firing envelop of the majority of aircraft armed with air to air IR missiles. Whereas all other aircraft will be within the ASRAAM’s envelop.

          • The engagement range and performance envelope difference between ASRAAM and other IR missiles is stunning.
            People seem to forget that ASRAMM forms the basis for CAAM which is a local area defence system

        • Yes but the older block 4 version, hopefully block 6 doesn’t need to wait until block 4 (f35) which seems to be moving further out in to the distance all the time , 2029 has been mentioned recently.

          • Block 4 + 2029 is being misreported that Block 4 doesn’t start until 2029, that is wrong.

            Block 4 is completed in 2029, it consists of many software drops each year up to 2029, plus the Tech Refresh 3 hardware that is due for production line introduction late next year.

            Yes there have been delays and an extension from 2026 to 2029, but Block 4 has also been expanded with additional weapons and other capabilities too.

          • This Link will give you a better picture of where we are with block 4. Worth reading in full and the links themselves.

            “Neither the program office nor Lockheed Martin appear to be making the most of their second chance. “The program has not sufficiently funded the developmental test (DT) teams to adequately test, analyze data, or perform comprehensive regression testing to assure that unintentional deficiencies are not embedded in the software prior to delivery,” DOT&E reports.

            Program leaders promised to deliver regular design updates in six-month increments when they announced the “modernization,” or Continuous Capability and Development Delivery (C2D2), plan.

            That scheme quickly fell apart as designers and the testing teams could not keep up with such an aggressive schedule.

            DOT&E now reports that the program leaders have given up on the six-month updates plan and are now operating on a one-year timeline for updates.”

            https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2022/03/f-35-program-stagnated-in-2021-but-dod-testing-office-hiding-full-extent-of-problem/

    • I totally agree.

      Why pay to integrate stuff onto a small(ish) fleet? Would make zero financial sense unless it was a sovereign weapon.

  8. Completly off topic, the otherday there was an article on here about why Ukraine will win its current conflict with Russia. One of the reasons given was the poor state and quality of first aid kits. So imagine my suprise when I came across this tweet by Rob Lee (Decent poster of all things mil on Twitter) I’ll post the link in the next post: Anyway here is a picture of offical Russian and a Ukrainain first Aid kits (The small one is Russian)
    https://i.postimg.cc/cLHJHHSF/FRfkj-YPX0-AAXIe.jpg
    and this next picture is of them broken down. The first aid kit i carry when I go out mountain biking (I live out in the sticks) is far superiour to them both never mind the Russian one.

      • As a non first aider( peppa pig plasters is my limit)
        What is in them. Looks like a belt, a bandage and a packet of something.
        Tell you a funny story I was a civilian working at a barracks and for some reason some troops were doing first aid training in the shared break room. They have the practice morphine stick things and left them on the table. The guy I’m working with says I wonder if they are real and takes one to look at. Next minute 2 soldiers comes running in and one says they are the real morphine not the practice ones. Work colleague winks at me as they carry them off. He took the one home and never heard anymore about it

        • Russkie one looks like a strap to use as a tourniquet, a first field dressing and maybe a sachet of quick clot! With a small instruction manual on how to provide first aid with no first aid kit! You would hope they have a team medic who has more stuff, to include trauma kit and morphine, plasma, drips, cannulae kits etc, but I doubt it mate!

          • Dont think they’re issued with the magic clotting stuff..certainly sachet looks too small. Morphine tabs? Or similar perhaps.
            Otherwise yes it’s a strap, a dressing, some tablets and a pamphlet!…
            Girl guides have better kit…and probably training !

          • AV wrote:
            <b>Girl guides have better kit…and probably training !</b>

            When I did my DoE at school, for first aid, we were taught by a Dr in which to pass the St Johns first Aid exam.

          • Yes, after many years of ripping the piss out of the medics and the RAP people, Herrick made you appreciate and want them close!!!!! Fitted and just needed a twist, save those precious 15 seconds mate for sure!

        • The official breakdown of the Ukraine first aid kit

          • adhesive roll plaster;
          • 2 pairs of latex gloves;
          • antiseptic (Chlorhexidine bigluconate);
          • Cellox (haemostatic agent);
          • emergency blanket;
          • bandage;
          • elastic roller;
          • arresting bleeding tourniquet;
          • decontaminating pills for water;
          • nalbuphine (anaesthetic);
          • spasmalgon (anaesthetic);
          • loperamide (anti-diarrhea medicine);
          • gauze bandage.

          The breathing tube isn’t listed , neither is the Israeli bandage, ( of which I have a number) the Tournniqet is a Cat Gen 7 Same as I was issued and which I keep in my first aid pack)

          as for the Russian one, all I see is a a rubber tourniquet and something which looks like the old fashioned first field dressing oh and the Russian equivalent of the British Army First Aid booklet.

    • That clotting co-agulant stuff is a real life saver. Makes a massive difference when faced with serious trauma/blood loss situations.
      Got some ex Israeli sachets in my chainsaw kit.
      (Might be wrong but think the Israelis developed the stuff)

      • The powder version was chinned off some time ago and now it’s strips which gel/liquify! To much powder getting thrashed about became an issue which wasn’t thought about until it was used and got just about everywhere and on everyone who was a bit damp!!!!! Great kit and superb for its intended purpose mate. I’m my chainsaw kit I’ve just got a will 🤪

        • That’s the stuff, pretty sure that’s the Israeli stuff…or at least they pioneered its use in military medi packs 👍

          • Celox is actually from the UK. Developed by a US citizen, he was diagnosed with a terminal illness, and passed the development over to a company in the UK. They finished it off and sell it today.

      • Towards the end of Afghan, we got impregnated pressure dressings with the stuff in it. A lot safer than the powered stuff, especially if some gets blown into an eye. One of the other items I used a few times, were a certain ladies sanitary product, good for entry wounds and some exit wounds.

        • Yes, ‘stuff the wound’…necessity is the mother of all invention. Real life saver the Celox stuff, even when self administered 👍

          • I’d never heard of clotting powder/gel before. Fascinating. Also never knew about deploying with tourniquet on the body for quickness.
            Everydays a school day.
            I will need to update my first aid box at some point. Thanks for the info guys.

          • Google the stuff, you can even pick it up on ebay. Totally recommended adding it to your kit. 👍

          • Used to wind up the septics, by saying they needed 5…..

            It’s far easier and quicker to have the tourniquet set up relatively loose on your limb (above the knee/elbow). This is for a couple of reasons. Firstly, when in a firefight and you get hit, you can self medicate, leaving your team to get on and win the fire fight. If you are still talking and therefore conscious, people won’t have to stop to deal with you.

            Secondly, when in a flap seeing your mate very badly hurt, you can/will become all fingers and thumbs, trying to get the tourniquet out the packet, looping it around a very damaged limb etc. If it is already on the limb, a couple of twists and then lock it out and you’re good to go, relatively speaking.

            The original clotting powder was based on crushed shrimp shells mixed with a small amount of volcanic ash. I’m sure some of the lads and lasses on here will remember the pig video!

            The powdered stuff was really good, as you tip a whole sachet into an exit wound or onto a stump, and it would seal the wound. However, if was windy, the dry powder will blow everywhere. It will react instantaneously with moisture. So eyes, nose and mouth would be susceptible, which meant you would need medivacing as well. When the they introduced impregnated dressings, this help reduce secondary injuries, but you still needed the powder, as it could get into all; the nooks and cranies. The gel does a similar thing, though he powder is easier to apply.

            The “kwikclot” stuff has made a vast difference to battlefield first aid, especially dealing with gunshot and blast injuries. But compared to a standard field dressing, it will stop bleeds within a minute. The stuff acts like a coagulant to block cuts etc, it doesn’t cauterize. Arterial can also be stopped. but takes longer, as you still needs to apply pressure to stop it pushing off the clot. It’s still best to tie off an artery bleed with clamps, if you can get to it. Wack in a drip or two, if you can get medivaced within 30 minutes, there’s a very good chance the person will survive. Especially with an onboard trauma team (Chinook MERT).

            In Afghan, the MERT teams got so good, the major killer became blast injuries from IEDs. Compared to earlier conflicts, gunshot injuries were in the main treatable (fatalities not withstanding), where quick and thorough first aid meant the person could be saved.

  9. Reached Initial Operating Capability on Typhoon on the 1st of April 2022, and when they fired it, a little flag popped out the end of the missile saying April fools.

    • They shouldn’t do anything on the first of April. I remember a conversation in the pub last year, when my mate said that the Yanks had a Space Force, and I told him we had one too. Sure, he said sceptically, since when? April 1st, I told him.

      Well obviously he didn’t believe me and it only got worse when he asked me what they did, and I said they probably operated Skynet.

  10. What is the british government’s obsession with short range? Short range anti air defence, short range missiles, short range howitzer? What about long range?

    • Err Meteor, possibly the most capable BVR air to air missile in the world right now.

      I’m as critical as anyone, ok probably more, but the air to air fit for typhoons is not something I have a problem with.

    • ASRAAM is not really that “short range” compared to Meteor yes it is… Compared to other IR missiles no it isn’t.

      • It is effectively a medium range missile not just a short range one. Various reports have suggested it may have a range of 60km. It is a different beast from standard short range missiles like AIM-9x.

    • May I rephrase that for you?

      What is the British government’s obsession with short range missiles that actually work?

      Short range anti air defence, short range missiles, short range howitzer?

      What about the super fandango Russian stuff now we have seen how well that works on long ranges?

      Joking apart we do have Meteor on Typhoon, A30 on T45 and TLAM on Astute.

  11. Are the IRIS-T and Asraam compatible? Could UK Typhoons fire Iris and German ones Asraam (with reduced capabilities) or is that impossible?

    • Yes, to an extent that they are both able to be fitted to Typhoon and they are both IR guided missiles. The four partner Nations locked down the allowed modifications done to the aircraft. Which meant each Nation had to agree to any proposed modification. This meant the flight control system’s software, flight management and weapons computer software were equally locked down. But meant that any authorised modification was then available to all partner Nations.

      This was also true for weapons integration. If Germany fits the Iris-T and UK the ASRAAM, both Nations aircraft can be fitted with either. The Typhoons weapons computer will recognise both weapons and use their firing parameters. Whether the pilots understand the full parameters of the weapons envelop would be open to debate. Though the Typhoon’s flight simulator can be set up with any integrated weapons fit, so they may have trained with unfamiliar weapons.

      The main difference between the aircraft with regards to sensor fits, is that the current German Typhoons do not have the PIRATE infrared search and track (IRST) sensor fitted. The future Tranche 4s they are buying are supposed to be getting the updated version of PIRATE.

      • He tipped up pretending to be a Padre, claiming to be a friend of the camp Padre, and thus was entertained by the officers Mess as a Padre. What I can’t understand he was allowed to stay the night, I can only presume that he presented himself at the front gate and the guy on duty didnt ask him for his ID simply because he wore a white collar . Failure at all levels: Main Gate, Guard Commander and the whoever picked him up from the main gate. As a young Sapper, it was always drummed into us, that we asked everybody for their ID when on stag, until of course you stopped the RSM or CO (Where you were always regaled to the infamous statement: “Do you know who I am?”) and ended up tapping the boards for doing as you were told. I once got hit with a 252 for stopping an infantry officer for his ID, he then asked why I hadnt saluted him, I replied that it was camp policy not to salute officers entering or leaving the camp.My Oscar Charlie threw it out of the window.

    • As a civilian who has worked in barracks the security can be poor sometimes. With a office made laminated card (printed on a paper with hand written name, company logo and a photo glued in place and laminated in the office) I could get into defence estates easily.
      On rare occasions the gate would ask who in here to see and call to check but not very often. On sites I regularly visited that’s ok when they know your face. But for locations never been before not so great. I was in officers accommodation quarters and the most I ever got was a hello.
      One civilian kitchen worker for 3 days in a row was shooting a BB gun at targets in a court yard. On the 3rd day eventually troops came and took it from him.

      • My last camp security was really good. You had to show ID, then your photo was taken and you were issued with a pass with your happy snap on it, which you had to hand in on the way out. these were then checked at the end of each shift to ensure that all passes were accounted for.

    • It is amazing, funny and at the same time quite terrifying.

      But it has always been the way: with enough confidence you can blag your way into most places.

  14. We really do need to find the money to increase the size of our Typhoon fleet.

    Stealth Technology

    “One solution to the problem of combat aircraft survivability is to use Low Observable (Stealth) technology to escape or delay detection. But although such fifth-generation aircraft are very hard to detect using current radars, these aircraft are not invisible and are becoming progressively easier to detect as counter stealth technologies are being rapidly developed and deployed.

    Mark Hewer, Leonardo’s vice president for the Integrated Mission Solutions Business, points out that: “You cannot easily modify a stealth platform to counter new high-end threats, because you can’t redesign the skin of your aircraft, or its internal structure, or its configuration. You have got what you have got.”

    This means that when new radars are introduced that erode the low observability of fifth-generation fighters, there will be little that can be done to counter that or to restore the combat advantage enjoyed by these aircraft. By contrast, EW systems are able to evolve to take account of this dynamic threat, in a way that stealth aircraft cannot. They can be upgraded and updated, incorporating new hardware and software.

    The company is also looking at inflight reprogramming of EW systems. This would allow an EW system to update itself as a result of behaviour that it is sensing and seeing. It is also working on advanced AESA radars, which offer considerable potential for EW.”

    https://www.armadainternational.com/2020/08/survivability-through-digital-stealth/

    “The AMK involves the installation of strakes (ridges along the fuselage) and leading-edge root extensions (LERX) where the roots of the delta wings meet the main body of the aircraft, right above its chin intake. Other aircraft that prominently feature such extensions include the F/A-18A-G Hornet/Super Hornet and the Su-27 Flanker, and the benefits of LERX greatly show in their performance! The addition of strakes and LERX gives the Typhoon a higher turn rate, a tighter turning radius and better control characteristics at a lower speed, all significantly contributing to the fighter’s air-to-air combat capabilities.”

    When compared to a standard Eurofighter Typhoon lacking the AMK retrofit, the enhanced Typhoon’s angle of attack (AoA) was 45% greater, with faster roll rates around 100% higher.

    • So why do you think no Typhoon customer has taken up the LERX kit? or TVN? Typhoon is a rate fighter. Very high turn rate, very high sustained turn rate. Outstanding high altitude performance, masses of excess thrust. And that is why it will win against an F18 any day, despite the F18s excellent high alpha performance. Add in ASRAAM and Striker HMD. And you have a real winner. And yet most airforces want F35.

      • It depends if close in manoeuvrability is what is needed. The typhoon is already pretty nimble and as with anything in the world the benefits the LERX bring also have a down side

        • Yes, usually drag and weight. The Typhoon LERX would know doubt improve manuvability. But it would maybe affect supersonic performance. Typhoon is already very agile. And designed to fly high and fast, putting maximum performance into its missiles when launched like a sling shot in the BVR fight. Close in, its very high 9g sustained turn rate, and HMS also win the day, especially when ASRAAM is tracking targets at BVR ranges. EJ200 is also an outstanding fighter engine.

          • The Airbus aerodynamic enhancement modification. Not only makes the aircraft more agile, but also more efficient, especially in the transonic and supersonic regions. The extended leading edge root extensions (LERX) clean up the area around the engine intake. This not only lowers drag, but the vortex in generates helps to generate more lift. They also extended the trailing edge flaperon area.

            Airbus flight tested the modifications and it improves fuel efficiency to between 10 and 15%. They didn’t mention anything about top speed or rate of climb etc, which may have slightly improved.

            Manoeuvrability wise, the kit can either reduce the turning circle or in a sustained turn reduce the amount of energy (speed) lost. It also increases the pitch rate.

            At the moment with, Captor-E, Pirate, HMD, ASRAAM and Meteor. The combined performance benefit of the sensors and weapons outweighs any aerodynamic advantages the Airbus kit delivers.

          • Yes but it would be nice to have. Perhaps we could buy some new Typhoons to replace our batch 1 Typhoons. We could give then all the bells and whistles, aerodynamic pack, Radar 2, conformal fuel tanks, engine upgrade etc. they could be used for QRA in UK and Falklands.

      • Also ASRAAM can be cued by the Typhoon Radar or EO system and lock-on after launch. The medium range of ASRAAM means it can kill a AIM-9x equipped F18 well before it could get a shot off. In exercise a Typhoon pilot could kill a F15 every time within visual range in under a minute…

    • AIUI we have around 100 operational, so why do you think we need to increase the size of our Typhoon fleet? With 13 hard-points each, advanced air-to-air missiles, and top notch pilots just two typhoons could destroy anything the Russian air force could field – especially as they’re incapable of coordinated operations. Events in Ukraine have made it clear that in a direct conflict the RAF alone could wipe out the entire Russian air force.

      • The vast majority of Russian losses have been caused by SAMs. I’m a big fan of the Typhoon & the top notch pilots that fly them but I’m not sure how you’re justifying the RAF being able to wipe the floor with Russia. If anything, their losses demonstrates the importance of ISTAR and SEAD/DEAD.

        You’re also assuming they committed their entire combat air power (they most certainly have not) and that systemic errors Russia have made in terms of pilot training, maintainance, upgrades etc. are a permanent state of affairs and not something they could learn to remedy.

        We should probably also consider potential future opponents other than Russia *cough-China-cough-cough*

      • The problem with the fleet size is due to the multi role nature of typhoon. To ensure sufficient are protecting UK airspace leaves only a small number available to deploy abroad.

        This was alleviated by tranche 1 filling QRA and the more capable 2 and 3 being freed up for more varied demands.

        It seems wasteful to me having the 2 and 3 versions tied up to a purely air defence role.

        • Exactly, and any advantage will increase a pilot’s chance of survivability in a conflict. Not that they need to turn to manoeuvre out of the way of an incoming missile of course.

          Some folks on here seem to forget China and its rapidly growing defence force, you only need to look at their current arsenal to get an idea of what we may be facing further down the line.

          “It’s a bit early to say what they intend to do with the J-20, so really all we’ve seen it do is air superiority,” he says. “But we notice that they are flying it pretty well. We recently had – I wouldn’t call it an engagement – where we got relatively close to the J-20s along with our F-35s in the East China Sea, and we’re relatively impressed with the command and control associated with the J-20.”

          https://eurasiantimes.com/chinese-j-20-meets-us-f-35-stealth-fighter-jet-for-the-first-time/

          The Chinese government has announced a 2022 defence budget of CNY1. 45 trillion (USD229. 5 billion), a nominal year-on-year increase of 7.1%. The expenditure – announced on 5 March at the opening session of the annual National People’s Congress (NPC) – represents the seventh consecutive year of single-digit growth.

          • You have done nothing but big up Russian capability over the last couple of years. Look how that has turned out. If you think Typhoon needs Thrust Vectoring or LERX to ‘dodge missiles ‘ than that just shows how little you understand. Which is ‘limited’ to say the least. 6th gen fighters available from 2025, how’s that going?? Russian stealth detecting radars, how’s that going?? Just two of the whoppers you have come out with in recent times.

          • The only thing I agree with is that China has increased its defence budget and that means that we do need to be at about 3% to fund the new kit that we need properly.

            The thing we have learned from Ukraine is that tenacity, motivation, training and technology together can win the battle space. Even against the odd. Well, we knew that really already but we all get subverted by the 3:1 rule!

          • Hopefully the Autumn statement will have some good news for defence. 2.5% would be a good starting point.

          • Clearly, LEREX and or Thrust vectoring would be useful to have in this situation.

            “Missile evasion is a very important part of modern air combat, many people believe it is almost impossible, but this is false, for several reasons, the most important reason is that missile cannot turn tighter than a fighter.

            Main problem with evading missiles is their speed, which makes timing very important, a missile will be closing at 1.200-1.400 meters per second in the best case, at 20 kilometers, this means 14-20 seconds to reach the target for a BVR missile, or 20-23 seconds for IR missile.

            There are several tactics to evade the missile, some of them very simple, first is a barrel roll, as the missile is unable to track it, it will fly past and loose a lock in the process, Second is a simple turn, where pilot forces missile to follow it through a turn this turn however must be well timed, and is very useful as an end move in more complex maneuvers designed to bleed off missile’s energy, it is also very useful in a dogfight, where rear aspect shots are far more likely than front aspect shots.

          • Some more information can be found via the attached link to help educate the local idiot on here who likes to appear to know what he’s talking about.

            As for “bigging up” Russia, he’s referring to my concerns regarding the S-500/Prometheus also known as 55R6M being able to detect stealth aircraft, namely the F-35 and how long stealth will be useful.

            He fails to comment on this point!

            “This means that when new radars are introduced that erode the low observability of fifth-generation fighters, there will be little that can be done to counter that or to restore the combat advantage enjoyed by these aircraft. By contrast, EW systems are able to evolve to take account of this dynamic threat, in a way that stealth aircraft cannot.

            They can be upgraded and updated, incorporating new hardware and software.”

            27 APRIL 2022
            Russia begins series production of S-500 air-defence system
            https://www.janes.com/defence-news/weapons-headlines/latest/russia-begins-series-production-of-s-500-air-defence-system

            “Air superiority aircraft and strike fighters such as the F-16, F/A-18, Lavi or A-7 have little space for ECM, a limitation exacerbated by a single person crew; the high level of automation thus required is at the expense of ECM capability, particularly the ability to jam multiple threats simultaneously.

            Evasive manoeuvring then becomes essential to survival. Air superiority aircraft and strike fighters such as the F-16, F/A-18, Lavi or A-7 have little space for ECM, a limitation exacerbated by a single person crew; the high level of automation thus required is at the expense of ECM capability, particularly the ability to jam multiple threats simultaneously.

            Evasive manoeuvring then becomes essential to survivalAir superiority aircraft and strike fighters such as the F-16, F/A-18, Lavi or A-7 have little space for ECM, a limitation exacerbated by a single person crew; the high level of automation thus required is at the expense of ECM capability, particularly the ability to jam multiple threats simultaneously.

            “Evasive manoeuvring then becomes essential to survival.” Hence my reasoning for giving our pilots every chance of survival that’s available!

            http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Evading-Missiles.html

          • Well that’s convinced me even more you are a Internet bot. Sharing an article from 1987, and talking about A7 Corsairs that the Americans retired in 1991. Talking about Typhoons defensive aids system and missile approach warning systems would have been a better effort Nigel. If that’s even your real name.

          • Does this wonder S-500 have a kill chain capability to find, track and engage an F35 or F22 at extended range?? before a JDAM lands on its head. That will be a no then.

          • A bit more info for the idiot in the room with his usual idiotic child-like replies! Information that has been around for years and he still doesn’t quite get it but sites it as another excuse for being wrong lol.

            Why was the F-22 designed as an air dominance fighter and what does it have to improve its AOA?

            “The concept of Thrust Vectoring is often associated with spectacular loop-type manoeuvres performed by small aircraft in airshow demonstrations (Uncle Albert) or combat simulations, and the operational use of these capabilities is often regarded with a lot of scepticism, due to the trends of modern air combat.”

            However, there is a lot more to Thrust Vectoring than these funny manoeuvres, and in fact, the greatest argument in favour of Thrust Vectoring is not found in combat characteristics but rather in conventional performance, as described in more detail below and in [1]:

            The use of the Nozzles as a complementary control surface allows the aircraft to better optimize its angle of attack (AoA) and minimize Flap Angle in stationary level flight for a given flight point and load configuration, and by doing so find the minimum drag condition, which in turn leads to strong benefits in SFC, and therefore range.

            Similarly to the above case, the nozzles can be used to increase the maximum load factor that is achievable under certain circumstances while maintaining the aircraft trimmed.

            This applies both for stationary manoeuvres (sustained turn rate) and for transient manoeuvres (rapid deceleration)

            On one hand, Thrust Vectoring can avoid aircraft losses due to loss of control (departure).

            It is estimated that 75% of the aircraft losses due to loss of control could have been avoided with a Thrust Vectoring System in place. The cost of one avoided aircraft loss would pay off the whole development of a Thrust Vectoring Nozzle.”

            https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2000/PAPERS/RESERVED/ICA0534.PDF

          • Good job the F22 is an allied operated aircraft then, that the RAF works with, not against. If you look at my comments properly, you can read can’t you? you will have seen that I fully acknowledged the advantages TVN brings. But for the Typhoon customer nations, none of them think its worth it. Same with Rafale and Gripen customers. Better to have a very capable HMD that also improves situational awareness. And he who has the best SA, wins the fight. If you could swallow your pride Nigel, you might actually learn something.

          • He’s forgotten his post already on this thread and clearly has not read any of the supplied data on the facts that contradict his impression of what TVN has to offer.

            And has no idea what an internet bot is or how it performs lol

            “Exactly. Thrust vectoring looks good at airshows, but that’s about it. I does have advantages. But it’s expensive, heavy, and more maintenance. Frontline pilots would rather have more situational awareness and networking capabilities. And trusty ASRAAM always saved the day. And the last thing any fighter pilot wants to do, is lose energy. or you are dead, regardless of whatever you are flying. Thrust vectoring brings advantages in the supersonic fight, but you would need to be in a very expensive F22 to see the benefits.”

          • Supplied data?? that’s a good one 🤣😄 So why haven’t Typhoon customer nations fitted TVN?? or the aero kit?? And I stand by every single comment I have made. How’s that S-500 working for you? Russia can’t even achieve air superiority over Ukraine.

        • It’s wasteful to have fleets within fleets. When one type can only do air defence and isn’t multi role. All Typhoons rotate for QRA duties. And aircraft are deployed depending on the requirement.

          • Although it would be fair to say that the RAF T1 force is the size of a lot of countries total Air Force?

            So, whilst I totally agree that running T1 alongside T2 & T3 looks expensive: not running T1 leaves a gap?

            And as the F35B’s lift won’t be around for a while I am puzzled as to what fills that gap unless RAF

            • retains T1 until enough F35 are operational; or
            • buys T4 to replace T1 as they go out of service

            It isn’t like T1 is a garbage aircraft that could not take on Russian jets, so it does have a real world use.

            I hope that RAF does extend T1 to prevent numbers dipping any more. Apart from anything else it would reduce the number of fast jet air hours if the fleet shrank too much which would be an issue to regenerate when more F35Bs come online?

          • To be honest. It doesn’t make a huge difference to the operational output of the Typhoon force. We are talking about 24 aircraft, and most of those are serving on the OCU and the Falklands. And the functionality of the types is very different. Now knobody wants to see numbers reduce, but the RAF sees the T1 fleet as a drain on its recourses, money that could be better spent on the T2/3 fleet. Radar 2, Striker 2 HMD, and Spear 3/EW, Meteor, Wide area cockpit display, engine and defensive aids upgrades ect are all very expensive, but very capable upgrades. And that’s were the RAF would rather put it’s cash. All Typhoons hold QRA, it’s not the sole responsibility of T1 jets. And we often overlook the air defence capability of the F35. Somthing we didn’t have with Tornado GR4 or Harrier GR7/9. Maybe we will keep the T1s and give them a limited upgrade like Spain is doing, but I’d be very surprised. And they don’t have F35. Yet. Hope that shines a different light on the subject. It’s also worth noting. The T1 fleet was originally meant be withdrawn back in 2015. Germany and Italy are also ditching T1 aircraft. Early French Rafales have also been withdrawn from service. As have early USAF F22s. So it’s not uncommon what the RAF are doing. 👍

          • The main benefit of getting rid of the T1s and replacing them with T4s. Will be the extended maintenance cycle. Tell me I’m wrong, but I believe the T1s have a shorter maintenance cycle than the newer T3s, the T4s should be better still. Therefore, with a reduced amount of time the T4s are in the shed, it saves costs on contracted maintenance etc and means the aircraft can be used for more tasking.

            The other benefits is spares commonality. Getting rid of Captor-M etc, means more money can be spent on spares for Captor-E. This will be the same for other T1 specific avionics. Similarly, we won’t have to keep buying AMRAAM just to equip one Tranche of Typhoons (Don’t mention our F35s).

          • That’s all correct mate. Would be great if we did order more Typhoons, but would need a considerable increase in defence spending to achieve that along with everything else. And to be honest, I’m not sure the RAF would go for more Typhoons. Even If the cash was available, I think they would go for F35A. Or keep upping the number of F35B’s. 5th gen is the way and Typhoon is still very expensive to purchase. 👍

          • All very true. For the RAF, T1 Typhoon is like running a MK6 Golf, when really you want to put the cash towards the new MK8, but running the MK6 is draining your funds. 😄 That’s my take on it anyway. In a perfect world we would buy new Typhoons to replace the T1’s, and have enough cash to purchase the right number of F35’s and fund Tempest. But it doesn’t work that way, and we can only do so much. 👍

      • Paul wrote:
        “”What about Rafale stealth; doesn’t it use Klingon cloaking?””

        Actually it doesnt, as the Klingons are a warrior race, nope the French are closer to the Ferengi

  15. Excellent tidings, and for the ones beneath on this thread bemoaning the sale of weapons to questionable countries, remember this, in life it’s never about a perfect choice, more about the lesser of two evils.

  16. Is anyone concerned that India will be getting this missile… they have had links with Russia in the past…

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