ASRAAM Block 6 reached Initial Operating Capability on Typhoon on the 1st of April 2022.

Jeremy Quin, Minister for Defence Procurement, stated:

“The Block 6 standard Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile has been successfully integrated onto the Typhoon aircraft with Initial Operating Capability formally declared on 1 April 2022.”

ASRAAM Block 6 standard, developed under the ASRAAM Sustainment programme, is expected to enter service on the Typhoon in 2022, and the F-35 in 2024. It has new and updated sub-systems, built-in cooling and a new British-built seeker with more pixels. As it uses no US-made components, it could be exported without ITAR restrictions.

Why does that matter? Well, according to this source, a previous attempt to sell the missile to Saudi Arabia was scuttled because of objections from Washington. The previous missile variant’s seeker is made in America, thus requiring export approval from the United States.

Previous versions of ASRAAM are in service with the Royal Air Force as its ‘Within Visual Range’ anti-air missile.

According to MBDA:

“In Within Visual Range (WVR) air combat, the ability to strike first is vital. A pilot engaging an enemy needs a missile that reacts more rapidly than ever before with the speed and agility to maximise the probability of a kill, regardless of evasive target manoeuvres or the deployment of countermeasures. ASRAAM has proven this capability. ASRAAM accepts target information via the aircraft sensors, such as the radar or helmet mounted sight but can also act as an autonomous infrared search and track system. The RAAF has demonstrated successful ‘over the shoulder’ firing in Lock On After Launch (LOAL) mode against target drones that were behind the wing-line of the launch aircraft.”

Last year, a British Typhoon jet shot down a hostile drone over Syria after the aircraft was deemed to “pose a threat to Coalition forces in the area”. The Ministry of Defence said that the engagement took place when drone activity was detected above the At Tanf Coalition base in Syria.

British Typhoon jet shoots down hostile aircraft over Syria

“As the drone continued on its track, it became clear it posed a threat to Coalition forces. RAF Typhoons conducting routine patrols in the area were tasked to investigate. Despite the small size of the drone making it a very challenging target, it was successfully shot down using an Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile (ASRAAM) and the threat eliminated – a tribute to the skill and professionalism of Royal Air Force pilots.”

The engagement took place on the 14th of December.

George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also works for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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David Steeper
David Steeper
11 days ago

It’s excellent news that we’ll now be able to export it without asking for permission. Without a superpowers armed forces we need to market/tailor as much of our kit to export markets as possible if we’re going to get economies of scale.

Grizzler
Grizzler
11 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Not so sure its good news we can export it to Saudi though tbh.

Joe16
Joe16
11 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

Agreed about KSA in principle, but I think that a lot of US’ concerns were more market share based than moral. That happens a lot, protecting US manufacturers.
But the fact that ASRAAM is ITAR-free and already cleared for carriage on F-35 may mean we can pick up some decent orders from all the new Lightning operators- particularly in Europe. Unless they can make AIM-9X particularly finanically appealing.

Martin
Martin
10 days ago
Reply to  Joe16

Considering the USA sells Saudi the AIM 9X sidewinder seems very much political/industrial concern rather than human rights or the Yemen civil war considering also they have approved sales of Paveway IV to Saudi that were used in Yemen. The American political system is so blatantly corrupt it’s really hard to be their Allie some times. American exceptionalism knows no bounds like criticising China for failing to abide by the UN law of the sea well also refusing to join up or recognise the UN law of the sea themselves. Now they want Putin tried by the international court for… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
11 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

If we want a thriving defence industry we don’t have a choice.

Steve
Steve
11 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I would rather not, if it means selling to countries with seriously questionable human rights and ones that are highly likely to use their equipment on their own people once their oil wealth devalues. Defence industry is worth very little to the economy, so the arguement for supporting it is questionable, plus there are plenty of better options to sell to.

Last edited 11 days ago by Steve
TR
TR
10 days ago
Reply to  Steve

I’m not sure how an ASRAAM could be used to abuse human rights.

Grizzler
Grizzler
10 days ago
Reply to  TR

Not so much the weapon – more the moral standpoint- if you can achieve that sellng arms of course….

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  Steve

Blair introduced an ‘ethical’ foreign policy when he got in. The UK defence industry more than halved in size and has never recovered but questionable regimes had no problem aquireing arms.

James
James
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Do you know if that policy was an alignment with EU policies? I find it hard that Blair would make choices on a morality basis, rocks on the beach have more of a heart than that corrupt pos.

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  James

It wasn’t aligned with French policies ! No I think it was a bone thrown to the left to keep them happy.

Douglas Newell
Douglas Newell
10 days ago
Reply to  James

Just because you disagree with him politically doesn’t make him corrupt.

James
James
10 days ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

Apologies but the man entered the post worth circa £1 million pounds, 7 years later when he left he spent over £30 million on properties.

7 x an annual salary of £175k does not give the ability to spend £30+ million. The man is corrupt and used his wife’s businesses to channel millions of pounds of over paid legal contracts through.

Douglas Newell
Douglas Newell
9 days ago
Reply to  James

You are of course assuming that was his only job. Like many politicians they do multiple jobs. Doesn’t mean they are corrupt.

expat
expat
10 days ago
Reply to  Steve

More likely to be used on Iranian drone and aircraft to be honest. There’s little difference between the 2 . Although I give Saudi a high chance of change in the next 30 years than Iran.

Grizzler
Grizzler
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

We always have a choice , its something we can hide behind- I see what you are saying but there may(should?) come a time when governments take more of a moral stance – difficult to arbiter though I agree.
I personally still wouldnt sell to Saudi.

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

So long as we accept that companies, factories and design teams will move abroad or go bust it’s an argument we can have.

Farouk
Farouk
10 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

i have no love for any Islamic country , yet I must point out that a lot of criticism regards Saudi Arabia and the Yemen is nothing more than Iranian propaganda . For example despite all the wild claims regards the death toll in Yemen often in excess of 300K the actual death toll since 2015 as of last Dec …18k.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/yemen

Grizzler
Grizzler
10 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

They behead people – they killed that journalist in their own embassy …I have no truck whatso ever with the saudi’s …I wouldnt sell arms to them period.

Pete
Pete
10 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

Would you sell to the USA? Would you sell to Singapore? I am no fan of the Saudi regime but the method of execution isnt really a determining factor. Brutal regime that squashes freedoms of the individual / genders etc i get…but in current environment helping the Saudies preserve energy supply surety to the West is important. At the same time being able to compete against the US in sales is valuable…and currently the UK probably has a great opportunity to increase its share in the missile mkt even further.

farouk
farouk
9 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

G wrote: They behead people – they killed that journalist in their own embassy …I have no truck whatso ever with the saudi’s …I wouldnt sell arms to them period. Good point, but how do you feel about each and every muslim in the Uk, seeing as they all subscribe to the very same intolerent mindset that the saudis subscribe to. As I said I have no love for any Islamic country or even for any Muslim, but my post was about the misinfomation promoted by iran post 2015 in which to try and offset SA miltary advantage which saw… Read more »

Last edited 9 days ago by farouk
expat
expat
10 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

Its actually a more complex argument than just not selling arms. Saudi and other ME countries are increasingly buying arms from China. Currently we do have some sort of leverage over them if they migrate entirely to Chinese weapons. We may occupy a morale high ground but things on the ground physically may be a whole lot worse. Not sure that would make many feel better.

James
James
10 days ago
Reply to  expat

What types of arms are they purchasing from China?

As most the hardware is US or Europe based the munitions they use must surely remain the same.

Expat
Expat
10 days ago
Reply to  James

Dong Feng 3 misslies. China has sign a JV to produce drones with KSA.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
9 days ago
Reply to  Expat

Chinese armed drones as well…

Douglas Newell
Douglas Newell
10 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

Why not, it’s an air to air missile and the Houthis don’t have fighters, so it’ll be used defensively against stones. it’s more likely to used against Iran if that ever flares.

The yanks probably prevented export In the hope they could get a sidewinder sale from them.

Douglas Newell
Douglas Newell
10 days ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

Drones not stones!! 😀

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
10 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

That aspect has never stopped America selling (or abandoning) advanced weapons elsewhere.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Selling arms to KSA. I worked there for the UK Govt doing work that involved monitoring the performance of certain equipments and certain UK Contractors. Its a sensitive subject but it was exceptionally interesting and rewarding work.(job satisfaction rewarding .. Not brown envelopes rewarding!) My boss always had this as his take. If you fancy an extra 5 pence on your basic rate of income tax for holding the moral high ground then that is what not selling to KSA will cost you. Ask most UK tax payers if they want to pay an extra 5 pence in the pound… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Spot on.

Fred
Fred
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I said the yanks change is, now we have this keep it, don’t sell it off, they wanted our lightning, we never sold it them it was faster than theirs, same as our V bombers that Lee like a fighter, we must keep I been working with typhoons past 4 years

Screenshot_20200910_021357_com.android.chrome.jpg
Rob N
Rob N
11 days ago

Very good news. The seeker upgrade will improve detection and help to reject countermeasures.

ASRAAM is not just within visual range but a medium range missile. It outranges other short range missiles like the AIM-9X, Python, Archer etc.

A Meteor/ASRAAM UK plane is an formidable prospect.

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
11 days ago

ASRAAM combined with a Helmet Mounted Display is a deadly combination, and is making thrust vectoring a less appealing capability. Speed and altitude = energy and puts extended range into weapons, this combined with situational awareness is king. ASRAAM also tracks and can engage at BVR ranges meaning as soon as you have fired your AMRAAM, ASRAAM is already tracking and ques the pilot through his HMD. ASRAAM even transformed the capability of the not very agile Tornado F3 back in the day. And achieved a 12/1 kill ratio in it’s final Red Flag in 2009 against F15, F16 and… Read more »

John Clark
John Clark
11 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Absolutely, I’ve never understood the concept of thrust vectoring for anything (except the Harrier!) All it means is you sacrifice energy.

Flying against an aircraft like our near future Typhoon, with Radar 2, updated IRST, block6 Asraam and updated Meteor, then you will simply be a large easy target hanging in space and ready to play host to a Meteor!

Speed and excess energy, plus first look and target lock, means your opponent is going to have a very bad day!

They will clear the sky’s of all before them, who needs stealth…..

Last edited 11 days ago by John Clark
Robert Blay
Robert Blay
11 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Exactly. Thrust vectoring looks good at airshows, but that’s about it. I does have advantages. But it’s expensive, heavy, and more maintenance. Frontline pilots would rather have more situational awareness and networking capabilities. And trusty ASRAAM always saved the day. And the last thing any fighter pilot wants to do, is lose energy. or you are dead, regardless of whatever you are flying. Thrust vectoring brings advantages in the supersonic fight, but you would need to be in a very expensive F22 to see the benefits.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
11 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Even in a US report I read an F22 in a short range engagement with a Typhoon was reported as being at a clear disadvantage even with its thrust vectoring, it was deemed necessary to take a Typhoon out before it can be detected or closed down into a high manoeuvre environment except at very high altitudes. That made me think again about the reasons thrust vectoring, despite being offered by RR has never been taken up, reasons I had previously considered revolved around the cost of so doing.

Last edited 11 days ago by Spyinthesky
TR
TR
10 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

A thrust vectoring system was developed for the Typhoon and is still probably sitting in a warehouse somewhere, its main advantage was about a 5% improvement in fuel efficiency (and consequently range) and improved low landing speed. It can obviously help you do silly things at airshows too…

Andrew Deacon
Andrew Deacon
9 days ago
Reply to  TR

I believe it was also capable of halving the takeoff and landing distance and improving super-cruise, and was a relatively cheap upgrade given both the typhoon and the engines were designed with thrust vectoring in mind from the start. However for many of the reasons discussed in this thread it’s well down the list of priorities.
The lerx mods might see the light of day on the German tornado replacement as they are said to improve low speed stability on takeoff with heavy loads and be essential for conformal fuel tank stability.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
9 days ago
Reply to  Andrew Deacon

A good insight can be found here, I have posted other links in this thread.

https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2000/PAPERS/RESERVED/ICA0534.PDF

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
9 days ago
Reply to  TR
Daveyb
Daveyb
11 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Thrust vectoring combined with digital flight controls gives you some advantages when transiting to supersonic flight, due to when the centre of pressure changes. Thrust vectoring can help rebalance the aircraft, when there isn’t enough fuel to pump around. It is also very helpful when flying at much higher altitudes. As you fly higher and where the air gets thinner, mechanical flight controls need to deflect more and more to make a reaction. Thrust vectoring can help, especially when the aircraft has two separated engines. Then you can use differential thrust as well as thrust angling. 3D exhaust control is… Read more »

John Clark
John Clark
11 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Agree Davey, but the fringe benefits simply aren’t worth the huge additional expense and complexity. Re radar 2, it’s interesting, as you say the Captor M is still very capable, but Radar2 will have many benefits, much lower probably of intercept being one of them, especially as we now know Russian equipment is not as capable as once thought…. Rumor has it that the captured avionics examined from a downed Su35 in Ukraine proved somewhat unimpressive, by all accounts. The Su57 allegedly has a much higher radar cross section than the Russians would have us believe, according to the boffins… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
9 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Worth reading to gain a better insight as to what thrust vectoring has to offer on the EJ200.

https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2000/PAPERS/RESERVED/ICA0534.PDF

AV
AV
11 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Top post!…summed it up better than I ever could.
Off bore sight missiles and advances in helmet technology have rendered thrust vectoring an expensive unnecessary luxury. However great detail Davey with regards to supersonic/high altitude flight…will be interesting to see if the twin engined Tempest goes down the thrust vectored route?…surely they’ll be some dimensional thrust control …but perhaps not in the sense of the current understanding and more in a ‘trim’ capacity.

Last edited 11 days ago by AV
John Clark
John Clark
10 days ago
Reply to  AV

It hasn’t been mentioned in relation to Tempest, as yet….

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
9 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

I found this paper on the subject which was quite interesting.

https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2000/PAPERS/RESERVED/ICA0534.PDF

Daveyb
Daveyb
9 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Nicely explained. Funny how they use a Typhoon in the graphics.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
9 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Indeed it is!

taffybadger
taffybadger
11 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Thrust vectoring for supersonic cruise has proven a decent increase in efficiency compared to fixed nozzles.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
11 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Some info on the subject from the experts and the advantages.

Thrust-Vectoring Upgrade for Typhoon Eurojet EJ200?
https://defense-update.com/20110209_typhoon_tvn.html

“The advantage to pilots is superior low-speed and high angle-of-attack manoeuvrability, compared to conventional-thrust aircraft, says Second Lieutenant Aaron Hoke, a propulsion engineer on the U.S. Air Force team that manages the Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor program at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/how-things-work-thrust-vectoring-45338677/

Last edited 11 days ago by Nigel Collins
Marked
Marked
10 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Thrust vectoring is like VIFF for the harrier. It looks impressive at an air show. It can be effective in combat too but it’s a one shot deal, if it fails to produce a kill shot you are dead as you’ve lost all speed. VIFF was seriously over rated, thrust vectoring perhaps less so, but still not the magic capability its played up to be.

Klonkie
Klonkie
11 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Fascinating read RB. Thank you for posting.

OOA
OOA
11 days ago

Quite apart from the ethical considerations, I’d hope that anything cutting edge isn’t shared to protect our technological edge.

lonpfrb
lonpfrb
11 days ago
Reply to  OOA

Given the alignment between Saudi and Russia on oil production, why would we continue favoured nation status for Saudi? There have to be some consequences for selfish decisions opposite to our national interest. Allowing Saudi to share our technology with Russia seems to put our people in danger not to mention that they have no enemies who require ASRAAM to be overcome…

TR
TR
10 days ago
Reply to  lonpfrb

Iran is a pretty proximate enemy… Saudi has no signivicant defence ties to Russia.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
10 days ago
Reply to  TR

Hi TR. I can’t reply to your original message me fir some reason. A bunch of comment’s seem to have disappeared from this thread. But as for thrust vectoring for Typhoon, Yes, it was developed, and test bench tests took place. I just think with the advances in weapon,radar,situational awareness technology, the advantages of thrust vectoring or being eroded. And it does bring advantages certainly with slow high alpha maneuvering and super cruise performance with trim and fuel consumption. But, those advantages haven’t out weighed the overall cost of retrofit, the extensive rewrite of the flight control software, and the… Read more »

Rob N
Rob N
13 hours ago
Reply to  lonpfrb

ASRAAM is also being sold to India who do have links with Russia….

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
11 days ago

More POSITIVE news I know the wee doom doom boys don’t like it but another slice of U.K. tech ingenuity.👍🏻💯🇬🇧

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
11 days ago

It’s great news. It’s best for a British missile to have British parts. Asraam really is in its own class between short range and medium range and I think that makes it world beating.

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
11 days ago

Yep. Positive news, and only 11 comments. If this was ‘ASRAAM blk 6 delayed until 2028’ it would be 111 comments. 😄

Airborne
Airborne
11 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

What do you mean? An ASRAAM with no aircraft? Shocking?

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
11 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

😄🤣 I mean, Typhoon should be able to carry 36 ASRAAMs, on every single training sortie, otherwise its a national disgrace 😄

Airborne
Airborne
11 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

And why only one pilot, every Typhoon should have 6 pilots, all carrying fighting knives, with the ability to launch Trident via a super duper space level secret comms, which can also set of Icelandic volcanoes, otherwise it’s a fuckin disgraaaaaaaaace and we will never win any wars against the Martians!!!! 🤪!

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
11 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Sod it, just buy two Death Stars, but do we have enough Tie Fighters to fill them 🤔. about 20k should do it. But we might have to skip the Mk41VLS for the proton torpedoes. Disssssssssgrace……….🤣

Airborne
Airborne
11 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

This could go on and on and on 😂😂

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
11 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

🤣 It could. But I have to be up early for work. Why isn’t more of my tax going towards a 15% defence budget! …..Disssssssssssssgrace 🤣😄 👍

Klonkie
Klonkie
11 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Robert it’s all about control of the spice! Control the spice control, the universe. The spice must flow.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
10 days ago
Reply to  Klonkie

😄👍

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
10 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

138 surely: bare minimum numbers you know old boy?

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
10 days ago

On each wing?? 😄🤣

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
10 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Obvs?

Jay R
Jay R
11 days ago

ASRAAM is also used by Australia on their legacy Hornets. What about their Super Hornets?

John N
John N
11 days ago
Reply to  Jay R

All of the RAAF F/A-18A/B Classic Hornets have now been retired, so has ASRAAM, the last flight was late last year.

The 24 Super Hornets, 11 Growler and 50 delivered (out of 72) F-35A aircraft use AIM-9X, AMRAAM and a range of other US made weapons.

In our part of the world it makes more sense to have platforms and weapons common to our major defence partner, eg, the US.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
11 days ago
Reply to  John N

Yea agree with you there. With a smaller force of 24 super hornets it’s best to stick to the US supply lines. I think the legacy hornets couldn’t carry amraam so paying for asraam integration was worth it for the range it gives over legacy sidewinders available at the time.
Good mix of aircraft the F35A and super hornets/growler.

John N
John N
11 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Actually the RAAF Classic Hornets were equipped with both AMRAAM and ASRAAM (they replaced the original AIM-7M Sparrow and AIM-9M Sidewinder).

They also carried the full range of unguided and guided weapons such as the Mark 8x series, GBU-1x series, JDAM and JDAM-ER and Harpoon Blk II.

Apart from the ASRAAM integration, the other ‘non standard’ weapon integrated was JASSM (now retired too).

To replace the ‘lost’ JASSM capability, JASSM-ER and LRASM will be integrated onto the Super Hornet fleet and eventually F-35A fleet too.

Joe16
Joe16
11 days ago
Reply to  John N

With your F-35 buy, does that not bring ASRAAM back into consideration? I know it’s external carriage only, but it’s already cleared (pretty sure it doesn’t matter if it’s F-35A or -B when it comes to the external pylons).

John N
John N
11 days ago
Reply to  Joe16

But ASRAAM is not integrated onto Super Hornet and Growler.

What would be the point of having to stock both AIM-9X and ASRAAM, plus AMRAAM?

Too complicated, it’s far better for the RAAF to stick to the USAF configuration for F-35A, and the USN configuration for Super Hornet and Growler.

Commonality of configuration is very important for sustainment, and also for future coalition operations where there would be a common ‘pool’ of weapons, spares, etc.

Joe16
Joe16
10 days ago
Reply to  John N

Ah, my mistake, I thought you were replacing the SH and Growler! You’re right, if you’re flying a mixed fleet, then keep the same weapons for all.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
9 days ago
Reply to  John N

The Australian stockpile of ASRAAM will have a significant number of years left in ‘life’ as they were purchased after the UK ones. I’d expect the Australian’s to retain them in the stockpile as a war reserve until life expiry. They did have AIM-9L and M in their stockpile until very recently (and might still have) for the same reason.

John N
John N
9 days ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

They may well be kept in storage, but unless the RAAF spends the time and money to integrate them to the current operational aircraft, they’ll probably stay in storage until disposal (we’d probably be better off selling them if possible). When the Classic Hornets retired end of last year, the JASSM capability was also retired too. The RAAF isn’t integrating JASSM onto any other current aircraft, instead, the replacement capability will be longer range JASSM-ER. It’s not the first time weapons have retired when the platform carrying them retires, back when the F-111C fleet retired, so did the AGM-142 Have… Read more »

DJ
DJ
8 days ago
Reply to  John N

John
I believe Australia was using the AIM-9L only on the Hawk armed trainer (its an old missile). Since the Australian Hawks, I believe, recently had their avionics upgraded to UK spec, could the ASRAAM be used as the AIM-9L replacement? ASRAAM has, I thought, been integrated?

John N
John N
8 days ago
Reply to  DJ

DJ, I haven’t heard/read anything regarding a ‘weapons’ upgrade being performed to the Hawk 127 fleet during that last upgrade, which was completed in 2019 (The official RAAF website mentions them being equipped with AIM-9M). It was reported two months ago that the 33 Hawks are going to be put through another upgrade/life extension so that the fleet will operate out to 2031. Again no reports/details of a weapons upgrade though. The other thing to consider is the Hawk fleet is used to train pilots before they move onto F-35A, F/A-18F and EA-18G, which are all armed with AIM-9X, so… Read more »

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
7 days ago
Reply to  John N

ASRAAM should be immediately compatible with F-35A. The software is available to all users once a single user gets it, in this case the UK. It uses the same pylons as AIM-9X, same attachment points etc. Using it should just be a software download. I’d expect most Australian personnel to be proficient in its use as many have directly transferred from the legacy Hornet fleet.

Ahms
Ahms
9 days ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

It might be an idea to have the Australian asraam missiles utilised as surface to air missiles in the sky sabre system.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
7 days ago
Reply to  Ahms

Very different missiles I’m afraid, different seekers, a tip over mechanism is required as part of the build. No 2 data link to speak to the system.
The best you could do would be a lash up like the Norwegian’s have adopted for their IRIS-T missiles.

Daveyb
Daveyb
11 days ago
Reply to  John N

It also means your Sidewinder armed F35s have a severe disadvantage to the UK ones, armed with ASRAAM, As they have to get a lot closer before they can fire. It will get worse when Meteor comes in to service.

John N
John N
11 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Disadvantage against whom?

Daveyb
Daveyb
10 days ago
Reply to  John N

OK, in a possible future scenario. A F35 equipped with Sidewinder AIM-9X II is facing off head to head against a J20. How it got in to this situation doesn’t matter! The J20 is similarly armed with the PL9C, a missile with similar performance to an older AIM-9L. Without going into to much detail. Both the PL9 and Sidewinder have a similar range, but the 9X has a better seeker, so it should detect the target using its own seeker sooner than the PL9. However, if the J20 has an infrared missile approach warning system (MAWS), it should be able… Read more »

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
10 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

The engagement range and performance envelope difference between ASRAAM and other IR missiles is stunning.
People seem to forget that ASRAMM forms the basis for CAAM which is a local area defence system

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
10 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

UK F35s are already equipped with ASRAAM.

Andrew Deacon
Andrew Deacon
10 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Yes but the older block 4 version, hopefully block 6 doesn’t need to wait until block 4 (f35) which seems to be moving further out in to the distance all the time , 2029 has been mentioned recently.

John N
John N
9 days ago
Reply to  Andrew Deacon

Block 4 + 2029 is being misreported that Block 4 doesn’t start until 2029, that is wrong.

Block 4 is completed in 2029, it consists of many software drops each year up to 2029, plus the Tech Refresh 3 hardware that is due for production line introduction late next year.

Yes there have been delays and an extension from 2026 to 2029, but Block 4 has also been expanded with additional weapons and other capabilities too.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
8 days ago
Reply to  John N

This Link will give you a better picture of where we are with block 4. Worth reading in full and the links themselves. “Neither the program office nor Lockheed Martin appear to be making the most of their second chance. “The program has not sufficiently funded the developmental test (DT) teams to adequately test, analyze data, or perform comprehensive regression testing to assure that unintentional deficiencies are not embedded in the software prior to delivery,” DOT&E reports. Program leaders promised to deliver regular design updates in six-month increments when they announced the “modernization,” or Continuous Capability and Development Delivery (C2D2), plan.… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
10 days ago
Reply to  John N

I totally agree.

Why pay to integrate stuff onto a small(ish) fleet? Would make zero financial sense unless it was a sovereign weapon.

Paul.P
Paul.P
11 days ago

Does CAMM have the same seeker?

zavve
zavve
11 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

CAMM has an active radar seeker while ASRAAM has a IR seeker.

Paul.P
Paul.P
10 days ago
Reply to  zavve

Thx for the reminder. A senior moment. Maybe I got confused with Mica-IR and Mica-EM.

farouk
farouk
11 days ago

Completly off topic, the otherday there was an article on here about why Ukraine will win its current conflict with Russia. One of the reasons given was the poor state and quality of first aid kits. So imagine my suprise when I came across this tweet by Rob Lee (Decent poster of all things mil on Twitter) I’ll post the link in the next post: Anyway here is a picture of offical Russian and a Ukrainain first Aid kits (The small one is Russian) and this next picture is of them broken down. The first aid kit i carry when… Read more »

FRfkd9-XsAAh-8p.jpg
farouk
farouk
11 days ago
Reply to  farouk

The link to Robb lees Twitter site

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
11 days ago
Reply to  farouk

As a non first aider( peppa pig plasters is my limit) What is in them. Looks like a belt, a bandage and a packet of something. Tell you a funny story I was a civilian working at a barracks and for some reason some troops were doing first aid training in the shared break room. They have the practice morphine stick things and left them on the table. The guy I’m working with says I wonder if they are real and takes one to look at. Next minute 2 soldiers comes running in and one says they are the real… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
11 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Russkie one looks like a strap to use as a tourniquet, a first field dressing and maybe a sachet of quick clot! With a small instruction manual on how to provide first aid with no first aid kit! You would hope they have a team medic who has more stuff, to include trauma kit and morphine, plasma, drips, cannulae kits etc, but I doubt it mate!

AV
AV
11 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Dont think they’re issued with the magic clotting stuff..certainly sachet looks too small. Morphine tabs? Or similar perhaps.
Otherwise yes it’s a strap, a dressing, some tablets and a pamphlet!…
Girl guides have better kit…and probably training !

Airborne
Airborne
11 days ago
Reply to  AV

👍😂 Agreed!

Farouk
Farouk
11 days ago
Reply to  AV

AV wrote:
<b>Girl guides have better kit…and probably training !</b>

When I did my DoE at school, for first aid, we were taught by a Dr in which to pass the St Johns first Aid exam.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
9 days ago
Reply to  AV

Probably Ketamine, which is used in their med kits.

Daveyb
Daveyb
11 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Going out the gate with four tourniquets fitted, ah memories!

Airborne
Airborne
11 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Yes, after many years of ripping the piss out of the medics and the RAP people, Herrick made you appreciate and want them close!!!!! Fitted and just needed a twist, save those precious 15 seconds mate for sure!

Farouk
Farouk
11 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

The official breakdown of the Ukraine first aid kit adhesive roll plaster; 2 pairs of latex gloves; antiseptic (Chlorhexidine bigluconate); Cellox (haemostatic agent); emergency blanket; bandage; elastic roller; arresting bleeding tourniquet; decontaminating pills for water; nalbuphine (anaesthetic); spasmalgon (anaesthetic); loperamide (anti-diarrhea medicine); gauze bandage. The breathing tube isn’t listed , neither is the Israeli bandage, ( of which I have a number) the Tournniqet is a Cat Gen 7 Same as I was issued and which I keep in my first aid pack) as for the Russian one, all I see is a a rubber tourniquet and something which looks… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
11 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

I’ve still got some decent first aid kit from when I left the job and kept quite a bit after working the sand pit! It’s a good habit I think most ex mil can’t quite relinquish! Although I bought my clotting gauze from woundclot! Small but will be good enough if needed (and not cheap)!

AV
AV
11 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

It’s crazy money, even now.
Worth it though.

AV
AV
11 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

Celox, that’s the stuff 👍

Simon
Simon
11 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

There was a point raised on one of the articles (think it was the six reasons one) on here that said the Russians were useing first aid kits that were dated 1978!!

Last edited 11 days ago by Simon
AV
AV
11 days ago
Reply to  farouk

That clotting co-agulant stuff is a real life saver. Makes a massive difference when faced with serious trauma/blood loss situations.
Got some ex Israeli sachets in my chainsaw kit.
(Might be wrong but think the Israelis developed the stuff)

Airborne
Airborne
11 days ago
Reply to  AV

The powder version was chinned off some time ago and now it’s strips which gel/liquify! To much powder getting thrashed about became an issue which wasn’t thought about until it was used and got just about everywhere and on everyone who was a bit damp!!!!! Great kit and superb for its intended purpose mate. I’m my chainsaw kit I’ve just got a will 🤪

AV
AV
11 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Operate my chainsaw kit alone and miles from anyone….always have a couple with me👍

Farouk
Farouk
11 days ago
Reply to  AV

The clotting stuff is Celox

AV
AV
11 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

That’s the stuff, pretty sure that’s the Israeli stuff…or at least they pioneered its use in military medi packs 👍

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
9 days ago
Reply to  AV

Celox is actually from the UK. Developed by a US citizen, he was diagnosed with a terminal illness, and passed the development over to a company in the UK. They finished it off and sell it today.

AV
AV
9 days ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

Stand corrected RB 👍
Think the Israeli brand is quick clot or wound clot?
Cheers.

Daveyb
Daveyb
11 days ago
Reply to  AV

Towards the end of Afghan, we got impregnated pressure dressings with the stuff in it. A lot safer than the powered stuff, especially if some gets blown into an eye. One of the other items I used a few times, were a certain ladies sanitary product, good for entry wounds and some exit wounds.

AV
AV
11 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Yes, ‘stuff the wound’…necessity is the mother of all invention. Real life saver the Celox stuff, even when self administered 👍

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
10 days ago
Reply to  AV

I’d never heard of clotting powder/gel before. Fascinating. Also never knew about deploying with tourniquet on the body for quickness.
Everydays a school day.
I will need to update my first aid box at some point. Thanks for the info guys.

AV
AV
10 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Google the stuff, you can even pick it up on ebay. Totally recommended adding it to your kit. 👍

Daveyb
Daveyb
9 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Used to wind up the septics, by saying they needed 5….. It’s far easier and quicker to have the tourniquet set up relatively loose on your limb (above the knee/elbow). This is for a couple of reasons. Firstly, when in a firefight and you get hit, you can self medicate, leaving your team to get on and win the fire fight. If you are still talking and therefore conscious, people won’t have to stop to deal with you. Secondly, when in a flap seeing your mate very badly hurt, you can/will become all fingers and thumbs, trying to get the… Read more »

Coll
Coll
11 days ago

Reached Initial Operating Capability on Typhoon on the 1st of April 2022, and when they fired it, a little flag popped out the end of the missile saying April fools.

Last edited 11 days ago by Coll
Jon
Jon
10 days ago
Reply to  Coll

They shouldn’t do anything on the first of April. I remember a conversation in the pub last year, when my mate said that the Yanks had a Space Force, and I told him we had one too. Sure, he said sceptically, since when? April 1st, I told him.

Well obviously he didn’t believe me and it only got worse when he asked me what they did, and I said they probably operated Skynet.

jason
jason
11 days ago

What is the british government’s obsession with short range? Short range anti air defence, short range missiles, short range howitzer? What about long range?

Marked
Marked
10 days ago
Reply to  jason

Err Meteor, possibly the most capable BVR air to air missile in the world right now.

I’m as critical as anyone, ok probably more, but the air to air fit for typhoons is not something I have a problem with.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
10 days ago
Reply to  jason

ASRAAM is not really that “short range” compared to Meteor yes it is… Compared to other IR missiles no it isn’t.

Rob N
Rob N
12 hours ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

It is effectively a medium range missile not just a short range one. Various reports have suggested it may have a range of 60km. It is a different beast from standard short range missiles like AIM-9x.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
10 days ago
Reply to  jason

May I rephrase that for you?

What is the British government’s obsession with short range missiles that actually work?

Short range anti air defence, short range missiles, short range howitzer?

What about the super fandango Russian stuff now we have seen how well that works on long ranges?

Joking apart we do have Meteor on Typhoon, A30 on T45 and TLAM on Astute.

Michael S.
Michael S.
11 days ago

Are the IRIS-T and Asraam compatible? Could UK Typhoons fire Iris and German ones Asraam (with reduced capabilities) or is that impossible?

Daveyb
Daveyb
10 days ago
Reply to  Michael S.

Yes, to an extent that they are both able to be fitted to Typhoon and they are both IR guided missiles. The four partner Nations locked down the allowed modifications done to the aircraft. Which meant each Nation had to agree to any proposed modification. This meant the flight control system’s software, flight management and weapons computer software were equally locked down. But meant that any authorised modification was then available to all partner Nations. This was also true for weapons integration. If Germany fits the Iris-T and UK the ASRAAM, both Nations aircraft can be fitted with either. The… Read more »

Randal Mcmurphy
Randal Mcmurphy
11 days ago

a good bit of engineering. and easier to service mid east clients

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen
10 days ago

Anybody else seen this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61302975

You just can’t make it up. What a bloody joke.

Paul.P
Paul.P
10 days ago

Now that’s what I call ‘stealth’…..

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
10 days ago

Were army lads on the gates or MGS?

farouk
farouk
10 days ago

He tipped up pretending to be a Padre, claiming to be a friend of the camp Padre, and thus was entertained by the officers Mess as a Padre. What I can’t understand he was allowed to stay the night, I can only presume that he presented himself at the front gate and the guy on duty didnt ask him for his ID simply because he wore a white collar . Failure at all levels: Main Gate, Guard Commander and the whoever picked him up from the main gate. As a young Sapper, it was always drummed into us, that we… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by farouk
Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
10 days ago

As a civilian who has worked in barracks the security can be poor sometimes. With a office made laminated card (printed on a paper with hand written name, company logo and a photo glued in place and laminated in the office) I could get into defence estates easily. On rare occasions the gate would ask who in here to see and call to check but not very often. On sites I regularly visited that’s ok when they know your face. But for locations never been before not so great. I was in officers accommodation quarters and the most I ever… Read more »

farouk
farouk
10 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

My last camp security was really good. You had to show ID, then your photo was taken and you were issued with a pass with your happy snap on it, which you had to hand in on the way out. these were then checked at the end of each shift to ensure that all passes were accounted for.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
10 days ago

It is amazing, funny and at the same time quite terrifying.

But it has always been the way: with enough confidence you can blag your way into most places.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
10 days ago

We really do need to find the money to increase the size of our Typhoon fleet. Stealth Technology “One solution to the problem of combat aircraft survivability is to use Low Observable (Stealth) technology to escape or delay detection. But although such fifth-generation aircraft are very hard to detect using current radars, these aircraft are not invisible and are becoming progressively easier to detect as counter stealth technologies are being rapidly developed and deployed. Mark Hewer, Leonardo’s vice president for the Integrated Mission Solutions Business, points out that: “You cannot easily modify a stealth platform to counter new high-end threats,… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by Nigel Collins
Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

So why do you think no Typhoon customer has taken up the LERX kit? or TVN? Typhoon is a rate fighter. Very high turn rate, very high sustained turn rate. Outstanding high altitude performance, masses of excess thrust. And that is why it will win against an F18 any day, despite the F18s excellent high alpha performance. Add in ASRAAM and Striker HMD. And you have a real winner. And yet most airforces want F35.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
10 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

It depends if close in manoeuvrability is what is needed. The typhoon is already pretty nimble and as with anything in the world the benefits the LERX bring also have a down side

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
10 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Yes, usually drag and weight. The Typhoon LERX would know doubt improve manuvability. But it would maybe affect supersonic performance. Typhoon is already very agile. And designed to fly high and fast, putting maximum performance into its missiles when launched like a sling shot in the BVR fight. Close in, its very high 9g sustained turn rate, and HMS also win the day, especially when ASRAAM is tracking targets at BVR ranges. EJ200 is also an outstanding fighter engine.

Daveyb
Daveyb
9 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

The Airbus aerodynamic enhancement modification. Not only makes the aircraft more agile, but also more efficient, especially in the transonic and supersonic regions. The extended leading edge root extensions (LERX) clean up the area around the engine intake. This not only lowers drag, but the vortex in generates helps to generate more lift. They also extended the trailing edge flaperon area. Airbus flight tested the modifications and it improves fuel efficiency to between 10 and 15%. They didn’t mention anything about top speed or rate of climb etc, which may have slightly improved. Manoeuvrability wise, the kit can either reduce… Read more »

Rob N
Rob N
12 hours ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Yes but it would be nice to have. Perhaps we could buy some new Typhoons to replace our batch 1 Typhoons. We could give then all the bells and whistles, aerodynamic pack, Radar 2, conformal fuel tanks, engine upgrade etc. they could be used for QRA in UK and Falklands.

Rob N
Rob N
12 hours ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Also ASRAAM can be cued by the Typhoon Radar or EO system and lock-on after launch. The medium range of ASRAAM means it can kill a AIM-9x equipped F18 well before it could get a shot off. In exercise a Typhoon pilot could kill a F15 every time within visual range in under a minute…

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
5 minutes ago
Reply to  Rob N

Cracking bit of kit 👌

JohnH
JohnH
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

AIUI we have around 100 operational, so why do you think we need to increase the size of our Typhoon fleet? With 13 hard-points each, advanced air-to-air missiles, and top notch pilots just two typhoons could destroy anything the Russian air force could field – especially as they’re incapable of coordinated operations. Events in Ukraine have made it clear that in a direct conflict the RAF alone could wipe out the entire Russian air force.

Stu
Stu
10 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

The vast majority of Russian losses have been caused by SAMs. I’m a big fan of the Typhoon & the top notch pilots that fly them but I’m not sure how you’re justifying the RAF being able to wipe the floor with Russia. If anything, their losses demonstrates the importance of ISTAR and SEAD/DEAD. You’re also assuming they committed their entire combat air power (they most certainly have not) and that systemic errors Russia have made in terms of pilot training, maintainance, upgrades etc. are a permanent state of affairs and not something they could learn to remedy. We should… Read more »

Marked
Marked
10 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

The problem with the fleet size is due to the multi role nature of typhoon. To ensure sufficient are protecting UK airspace leaves only a small number available to deploy abroad.

This was alleviated by tranche 1 filling QRA and the more capable 2 and 3 being freed up for more varied demands.

It seems wasteful to me having the 2 and 3 versions tied up to a purely air defence role.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
10 days ago
Reply to  Marked

Exactly, and any advantage will increase a pilot’s chance of survivability in a conflict. Not that they need to turn to manoeuvre out of the way of an incoming missile of course. Some folks on here seem to forget China and its rapidly growing defence force, you only need to look at their current arsenal to get an idea of what we may be facing further down the line. “It’s a bit early to say what they intend to do with the J-20, so really all we’ve seen it do is air superiority,” he says. “But we notice that they are… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by Nigel Collins
Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

You have done nothing but big up Russian capability over the last couple of years. Look how that has turned out. If you think Typhoon needs Thrust Vectoring or LERX to ‘dodge missiles ‘ than that just shows how little you understand. Which is ‘limited’ to say the least. 6th gen fighters available from 2025, how’s that going?? Russian stealth detecting radars, how’s that going?? Just two of the whoppers you have come out with in recent times.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

The only thing I agree with is that China has increased its defence budget and that means that we do need to be at about 3% to fund the new kit that we need properly.

The thing we have learned from Ukraine is that tenacity, motivation, training and technology together can win the battle space. Even against the odd. Well, we knew that really already but we all get subverted by the 3:1 rule!

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
10 days ago

Hopefully the Autumn statement will have some good news for defence. 2.5% would be a good starting point.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Clearly, LEREX and or Thrust vectoring would be useful to have in this situation. “Missile evasion is a very important part of modern air combat, many people believe it is almost impossible, but this is false, for several reasons, the most important reason is that missile cannot turn tighter than a fighter. Main problem with evading missiles is their speed, which makes timing very important, a missile will be closing at 1.200-1.400 meters per second in the best case, at 20 kilometers, this means 14-20 seconds to reach the target for a BVR missile, or 20-23 seconds for IR missile.… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Some more information can be found via the attached link to help educate the local idiot on here who likes to appear to know what he’s talking about. As for “bigging up” Russia, he’s referring to my concerns regarding the S-500/Prometheus also known as 55R6M being able to detect stealth aircraft, namely the F-35 and how long stealth will be useful. He fails to comment on this point! “This means that when new radars are introduced that erode the low observability of fifth-generation fighters, there will be little that can be done to counter that or to restore the combat… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by Nigel Collins
Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Well that’s convinced me even more you are a Internet bot. Sharing an article from 1987, and talking about A7 Corsairs that the Americans retired in 1991. Talking about Typhoons defensive aids system and missile approach warning systems would have been a better effort Nigel. If that’s even your real name.

farouk
farouk
9 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Never mind the A7, the Lavi never saw the light of day

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
9 days ago
Reply to  farouk

He’s a strange fish is our Nigel 😄

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Does this wonder S-500 have a kill chain capability to find, track and engage an F35 or F22 at extended range?? before a JDAM lands on its head. That will be a no then.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
9 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

A bit more info for the idiot in the room with his usual idiotic child-like replies! Information that has been around for years and he still doesn’t quite get it but sites it as another excuse for being wrong lol. Why was the F-22 designed as an air dominance fighter and what does it have to improve its AOA? “The concept of Thrust Vectoring is often associated with spectacular loop-type manoeuvres performed by small aircraft in airshow demonstrations (Uncle Albert) or combat simulations, and the operational use of these capabilities is often regarded with a lot of scepticism, due to… Read more »

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
9 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Good job the F22 is an allied operated aircraft then, that the RAF works with, not against. If you look at my comments properly, you can read can’t you? you will have seen that I fully acknowledged the advantages TVN brings. But for the Typhoon customer nations, none of them think its worth it. Same with Rafale and Gripen customers. Better to have a very capable HMD that also improves situational awareness. And he who has the best SA, wins the fight. If you could swallow your pride Nigel, you might actually learn something.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
9 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

He’s forgotten his post already on this thread and clearly has not read any of the supplied data on the facts that contradict his impression of what TVN has to offer. And has no idea what an internet bot is or how it performs lol “Exactly. Thrust vectoring looks good at airshows, but that’s about it. I does have advantages. But it’s expensive, heavy, and more maintenance. Frontline pilots would rather have more situational awareness and networking capabilities. And trusty ASRAAM always saved the day. And the last thing any fighter pilot wants to do, is lose energy. or you… Read more »

Last edited 9 days ago by Nigel Collins
Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
9 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Supplied data?? that’s a good one 🤣😄 So why haven’t Typhoon customer nations fitted TVN?? or the aero kit?? And I stand by every single comment I have made. How’s that S-500 working for you? Russia can’t even achieve air superiority over Ukraine.

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
10 days ago
Reply to  Marked

It’s wasteful to have fleets within fleets. When one type can only do air defence and isn’t multi role. All Typhoons rotate for QRA duties. And aircraft are deployed depending on the requirement.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
10 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Although it would be fair to say that the RAF T1 force is the size of a lot of countries total Air Force? So, whilst I totally agree that running T1 alongside T2 & T3 looks expensive: not running T1 leaves a gap? And as the F35B’s lift won’t be around for a while I am puzzled as to what fills that gap unless RAF retains T1 until enough F35 are operational; or buys T4 to replace T1 as they go out of service It isn’t like T1 is a garbage aircraft that could not take on Russian jets, so… Read more »

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
10 days ago

To be honest. It doesn’t make a huge difference to the operational output of the Typhoon force. We are talking about 24 aircraft, and most of those are serving on the OCU and the Falklands. And the functionality of the types is very different. Now knobody wants to see numbers reduce, but the RAF sees the T1 fleet as a drain on its recourses, money that could be better spent on the T2/3 fleet. Radar 2, Striker 2 HMD, and Spear 3/EW, Meteor, Wide area cockpit display, engine and defensive aids upgrades ect are all very expensive, but very capable… Read more »

Daveyb
Daveyb
9 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

The main benefit of getting rid of the T1s and replacing them with T4s. Will be the extended maintenance cycle. Tell me I’m wrong, but I believe the T1s have a shorter maintenance cycle than the newer T3s, the T4s should be better still. Therefore, with a reduced amount of time the T4s are in the shed, it saves costs on contracted maintenance etc and means the aircraft can be used for more tasking. The other benefits is spares commonality. Getting rid of Captor-M etc, means more money can be spent on spares for Captor-E. This will be the same… Read more »

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
9 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

That’s all correct mate. Would be great if we did order more Typhoons, but would need a considerable increase in defence spending to achieve that along with everything else. And to be honest, I’m not sure the RAF would go for more Typhoons. Even If the cash was available, I think they would go for F35A. Or keep upping the number of F35B’s. 5th gen is the way and Typhoon is still very expensive to purchase. 👍

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
9 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

All very true. For the RAF, T1 Typhoon is like running a MK6 Golf, when really you want to put the cash towards the new MK8, but running the MK6 is draining your funds. 😄 That’s my take on it anyway. In a perfect world we would buy new Typhoons to replace the T1’s, and have enough cash to purchase the right number of F35’s and fund Tempest. But it doesn’t work that way, and we can only do so much. 👍

Paul.P
Paul.P
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

What about Rafale stealth; doesn’t it use Klingon cloaking?

farouk
farouk
10 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Paul wrote:
“”What about Rafale stealth; doesn’t it use Klingon cloaking?””

Actually it doesnt, as the Klingons are a warrior race, nope the French are closer to the Ferengi

Paul.P
Paul.P
10 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

‘insufficiently menacing’ according to wiki. 😂

Robert Billington
Robert Billington
10 days ago

Excellent tidings, and for the ones beneath on this thread bemoaning the sale of weapons to questionable countries, remember this, in life it’s never about a perfect choice, more about the lesser of two evils.

Klonkie
Klonkie
10 days ago

Now that is an intelligent observation.

Rob N
Rob N
8 days ago

Is anyone concerned that India will be getting this missile… they have had links with Russia in the past…