BAE Systems has achieved a significant milestone by delivering the 1,000th rear fuselage to Lockheed Martin for the F-35 fighter.

The Company’s facilities located in Samlesbury, Lancashire, supported by over 1,500 employees, manufacture the rear fuselage for every F-35 in the global fleet.

The initial rear fuselage delivery was made to Lockheed Martin in 2005.

Cliff Robson, Group Managing Director, BAE Systems Air, said:

“This is a significant moment for everyone involved in the programme and a testament to the highly-skilled workforce we have in the North West of England. Our role on the F-35 programme is another example of how we make a substantial contribution to the local and national UK economy and help to deliver capability which is critical for national security.”

Bridget Lauderdale, Lockheed Martin Vice President and General Manager of the F-35 programme, said:

“The F-35 programme powers economic growth and prosperity for the UK injecting approximately £41billion* into the UK economy and supporting more than 20,000 jobs in the UK supply chain, many of those based in the North West. With more than 500 companies in our UK supply chain, we’re proud of the role that our partnership with BAE Systems has in delivering the world’s most advanced aircraft for the UK and 17 other allied nations.”

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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105 COMMENTS

  1. I think this is something a lot of people and newspapers gloss over when screaming that Britain doesn’t build anything anymore. We have one of the largest aerospace industries in the world, we may not build many whole planes but we do build a hell of a lot of the components that go into both military and civilian aviation. That’s even without going into the amount of small satellites which we build.

      • True but you need some middle ground I think, I’m also seeing a lot of people going on about how the UK can do no wrong and is perfect. In my opinion the country can’t grow if we can’t admit our faults and grow from there whilst also celebrating our accomplishments.

        • I would love to say you’re wrong but you’re not. We have lost a lot of ground over the last twenty years. Even though we are still a seriously strong country and ally we have to accept that we can no longer do everything, unless of course the services get a serious injection of cash.

        • How will admitting your faults improve anything except make remainers feel better. Happy to make stuff up if it makes remainers happy and less anxious.

      • I’m making $80 for every hr. to finish some internet providers from home. I absolutely never thought it would try and be reachable anyway. My comrade mate got 13,000 US dollars just in about a month effectively doing this best task and furthermore she persuaded me to profit. Look at additional subtleties going to
        this article.. https://Americanliberty7.blogspot.com

    • More the issue was the ‘globalisation’ of the supply chain. Where trotting out that it was OK to just do the high value bits…

      Some of it total economic, security and environmental nonsense.

      • Oww I’m not denying the fact that a lot of manufacturing in the UK has disappeared either due to low investment or cheaper labour in sweatshop states. However as I said to my reply to DMJ we also need to acknowledge our accomplishments and work on them to improve the country.

        Hopefully with what BEA have learnt from working on the F35 and Eurofighter will help a lot with tempest. I would also like us to start building commercial planes again as we used to be one of the world leaders in that but now we are strangled by the monopolies of airbus and Boeing.

        • Boeing is falling so far behind in commercial aircraft that the traditional duopoly really is becoming an Airbus monopoly for the foreseeable future. Of course, we (the UK) did have a major share in Airbus but somehow decided that wasn’t really to our advantage and sold it off, though all the wings are still manufactured here. The cost barriers of entry to commercial aircraft are so high now that there is no way the UK is going back into it.

      • are you volunteering to do garments stitching or plastic mould injecting for a couple of dollars a day? I’m not and quite happy to focus on high end.

        • there plenty of plastic mold injection work going on in the UK. There is also garment work as well, but it is high end or bespoke

          • Yes, buts it’s not the kind of thing I’ll be doing. Every time people decry the state of some industry we don’t do anymore they should be required to go work in said industry for pissy wages. I’m quite happy working in an office doing finance and I don’t mind my t shirts stitched in Bangladesh and my iPhone assembled in China and it all arrived in the UK on a container ship made in Korea.

        • Not everyone can do high end jobs and as long as you have minimum wage protections and actually ensure you manage your markets so they are not filled with products made by near slaves or children it can work out fine.

          • Minimum wages and international markets don’t allow the UK to compete on low end production. What your proposing is autarchy. Stalin and Hitler tried that as did Mao and Pol Pot. I’m guessing your PHD in Econometrics told you what happened next.

          • Nope it’s called management of markets not complete freedom of markets there is a very very large difference between a totalitarian dictatorship and management of markets to suggest otherwise is being a little hyperbolic.

          • The nonsense is that there is a group of well(ish) paid workers £16:00/hr who are stuck in the benefit notch.

            I cannot get any of those guys to accept £2/hr pay rises or promotions because they loose so much benefit.

          • Yes it’s a real problem you actually have a number of wage thresholds that make you poor in this the county, which is bonkers. There was a classic one this last year when the NHS pay rise worked in such a way to make an entire band of the workforce about 2 grand worse off…due to the pension required payment moving from 11% to 12.5%,…..movement to the higher tax bracket and loss of child benefit….we had people not wanting the pay rise ( but they had to have it).

        • JIT plastic injection moulding is done on a large scale in the UK.

          A friend of mine moved his production from China -> UK because of shipping but also the ability to flex production and money was not tied up in goods in transit nor was he subject to all over the place freight costs and random delays.

          He said that at the end of the day it was pretty much cost neutral.

      • Agree…for a stable economy you have to have an industrial base that does it all. From basing metal to manufacturing chips and doing software.

        Globalisation is good as long as you recognise a few things:

        1) mercantilism is a real strategy and a present danger to the west.
        2) never allow your own basic industries to compete with near slave economies on an even playing field…your own clothing industry cannot out cheap a factory full of children working for pennies in Dickensian conditions without any regard for the environment …we simply should not be allowing such products in our market for both the good of our own industrial output, the future of the planet and also on moral grounds….stopping child Labour in our own nation while buying cheap cloths made by children from another nation is a difficult moral question.

        • No one, not even the US can have a supply chain that “does it all” when it comes to manufacturing chips. If you had any idea what’s involved in that industry you see how crazy such a statement is. For metals it’s even harder most metals have to be imported as ore anyway and their are so many grades of just steel how do you think you could make them all? You need dozens of plants in each country and that’s with zero competition.

          • You do need to do as much as you can in your own nation. Yes you sometimes need to have specialisation. But at best you should consider this regionally and within a market place that is appropriate and is within an agreed structure and with nations that are not geopolitical opponents. But the reality is we have let the laissez faire economic model do some pretty stupid things. Having 80% of the worlds chip manufacturing on an island on the shore of snd claimed by a geopolitical enemy is and was foolish. Having most of our cloths made in hideous conditions by children when we would never allow those conditions in our own society is morally incongruent.

          • How do you “do as much as you can in your own nation” I’m guessing your talking about pulling out of our free trade agreements and taking central control of industry.

            Where would you find the people to do all this, we are running at 3% unemployment and your going to need ten of millions of people to switch in to new industries.

            I never thought you the communist type.

          • as I said, free trade agreements with peer nations is not so much the issue the issue is where we are essentially unable to compete because of very specific conditions. To simply allow your nations industries to wither because another nation is happy to work its children or poor to death in crap conditions or to use its central control of its population to effectively use a mercantile strategy against your nations industries is quite frankly foolish.

            As for free trade agreements we have far less than you would think we do not for instance have a free trade agreement with China or India….we generally only have free trade agreements with peer nations.

            Im most definitely not a communist, but i firmly believe in the carful management of external markets that may damage the UK. I’m a capitalist and agree with internal free markets and free markets with peer democratic capitalist nations. But I firmly believe we should also be less laissez faire with nations that do have the same systems….so I would not be allowing goods total free trade of all good that we know are linked to things like child Labour, wage bondage etc.

          • interest insights Jonathan. The real driver though is the race to the bottom on corporate tax. Used to be circa 33% in most develop countriss. Way below that now.

          • The US has all the metals it needs including the rare earth metals that we are presently in porting from China. We just do not have the will to actually mind them because that does not fit the present administrations concept of environmentalism.

          • No the USA doesn’t have the rare earth metals it needs, and it certainly doesn’t have the specialist refining capabilities required either.

            The word is “importing” and not “in porting”.

            Your grammar is almost as bad as your grasp on reality…

          • Funny , in the end you knew what he meant by In porting . Change your name before flashing your Grammer ability as no Real Sean allows petty pathetic minuscule ideas on word sequence or spelling to get in the way of sweeping pervasive statements.

          • So the Fake Sean returns after months of being away… I take it you’ve been released and are out on parole?
            Or as you’re defending Esteban, perhaps you’ve one of Putin’s conscripts finally on leave from fighting in Ukraine.

            BTW the word you’re grasping for and failing to find us “grammar” and it’s pretty important if you want to communicate effectively.

          • I have my own stalker-troll, who unimaginatively calls himself “Sean the real Sean” 🤷🏻‍♂️
            (He’s a bit of an idiot)

          • Oh I already get enough grief from the anti-vaxx/ pro-Putin/ flat-earth brigade on social media… 🤷🏻‍♂️

          • I’ve never actually come across a flat earth person before, to be honest I thought they were made up for channel five documentaries.

          • Oh my oh my…. I went and looked down that rabbit hole…it’s like the whole enlightenment and last four hundred years did not happen….or just passed these people right on by.

          • Careful, it is rabbit hole which people get sucked down into. The flat-earthers are towards the wackiest-end along with those that think the Illuminati/ WEF/ Lizard Aliens run a secret world government.

            Oh I forgot chem-trails too, that’s another popular one.
            Trending is the belief that the Turkish earthquake was caused by a U.S. military earthquake-induction weapon…

            It shakes your faith in democracy a bit, that up to 10% of the population are fruitcakes, and they all have a vote…

        • “your own clothing industry cannot out cheap a factory full of children working for pennies in Dickensian conditions without any regard for the environment”

          That is mercantilism…

          • Hi Alex mercantilism is more than just that ( it is a symptom of mercantilism ) it’s a very specific geopolitical approach, which is based on the assumption wealth is finite and that a nations power is dependent on grabbing and keeping as much of that finite wealth as possible…basically via maximising exports ( exploit your workforce and force open external markets) and minimising imports via control of your internal markets ( keep your pollution poor and controlled) …at its best ( least impactful) we see it in western democracies put tariffs on some imports to help protect key industries ( a sort of mercantile light ) at its worst it’s linked to control of a population via a totalitarian state to work in its factories…reduced personal wealth and freedom to so limiting imports ( poor people don’t buy imports) and finally the use of force to open markets and protect raw materials.basically the worst examples of these ( or should I say the very best practitioner of the art) were the US ( slave economy) and the British empire ( bound its population into factories and used force to open markets), trouble is we got freedom and the belief in the free market to create new wealth…while some other parts of the world look back at how the west became dominant and want a bit of that while missing the advantage a more free marketplace with social freedom ( with some minor controls) can give you.

    • London press loves to slate the UK post brexit as does much of the international. This would not be such an issue if the same nonsense was not being used by Putin and the CCP to justify their own regime’s.

    • People don’t say that, people say we don’t own anything anymore, majority is foreign owned or based, We do well but as a country we very rarely reap the full rewards, they go to France, USA, Germany etc

  2. How about a government initiative to build nuclear power stations for more industry?

    The way to save British manufacturing is to build the infrastructure to deliver more automation, more cheap energy and cheaper communications.

  4. As an industrial project F35 has been great for UK. Almost as much industrial participation as typhoon with four times the orders a minimal support required from MOD.

    They don’t even need sales teams, seems to sell itself.

          • Well the UK was planning both a Harrier replacement and a stealth fighter bomber but a whole range of reasons mostly around cost and the fall of the Soviet Union of course gave it up to join the F-35 as a level one participant. Correct decision, if sad to admit as one doubts either were feasible in the end as partners wouldn’t have been likely. US power at all levels killed off the competition, thankfully that’s a little brighter option post F-35.

          • Wrong. It uses advanced and expensive to develop technologies.
            That’s completely different to “too complex”.

            As for ‘competitors’, guess you haven’t heard of GCAP (previously Tempest and F-X) or FCAS sixth-generation projects.

  6. For those who have been grossly misinformed and are too obtuse to verify ridiculous claims that the 🇬🇧 produces nothing; here are the facts:

    🇬🇧 is the world’s ninth largest manufacturer, just a smidgen behind 🇫🇷. 
    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/02/countries-manufacturing-trade-exports-economics/

    Furthermore, the 🇬🇧 is the world’s second largest exporter of high value services, such as IT, finance, engineering, design and scientific services, just to name a few.
    https://www.worldstopexports.com/worlds-top-export-services/

    Still, despite this, Brits are living way beyond their means. If all that exported services brainpower was utilised more by 🇬🇧 government to improve your own economy, just as it’s export improves other economies, 🇬🇧 might be in better shape economically.

    • Better shape economically? The U.K. is actually in pretty good shape already.
      Aside from Germany, every other country in the G7 has a higher national debt to GDP ratio. As various countries discovered in 2008 (eg Greece), having too higher a ratio can be disastrous.

  7. For those who have been grossly misinformed and are too obtuse to verify ridiculous claims that the 🇬🇧 produces nothing; here are the facts:

    🇬🇧 is the world’s ninth largest manufacturer, just a smidgen behind 🇫🇷.

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/02/countries-manufacturing-trade-exports-economics/

    Furthermore, the 🇬🇧 is the world’s second largest exporter of high value services, such as IT, finance, engineering, design and scientific services, just to name a few.

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/worlds-top-export-services/

    Still, despite this, Brits are living way beyond their means. If all that exported services brainpower was used more by 🇬🇧 government to improve your own economy, just as it’s export improves other economies, 🇬🇧 might be in better shape economically.

  8. Unfortunately we have lost control of own destiny so companies like BAe, RR and Airbus UK, and what was Westland and Dowty, will slowly whither

  9. Contracts signed this weekend, middle fuselage production site #2 has officially moved from Turkey to Germany. Rheinmetall got the work.

  10. I believe it breaks down like this, maybe wrong:
    All rear fuselages including tail control surfaces made in the UK
    Centre fuselage was made in the US and just starting in Turkey, now moved to Germany
    Front fuselage made in US, and now Finland
    Wings made in US, Italy and Israel
    Final assembly in US, Japan and Italy

    Also made in the UK all Lift fan, lift fan doors, exhaust vectoring and other associated gubbins for the B’s, ejection seats, bomb bay doors, life support system, targeting laser within EOTS, and various other electro/mechanical subsystems

  11. The ones who drip about the UKMOD paying XX Billions for the F35 dont cover the CAT 1 partner work share input to the UK Economy.
    “We should have gone CATBAR with angled decks” and ” Buy F18/ Rafael” crowd dont seem to get that it would be money lost to UK PLC .
    With F35 we are getting the money we spend and also what everyone else spends back into the economy and then some.

    • “We should have gone CATBAR with angled decks” and ” Buy F18/ Rafael” crowd dont seem to get that it would be money lost to UK PLC .”

      Those same people also don’t get that, without nuclear power, CATOBAR isn’t that great, and EMALS still has teething problems.

      And that going nuclear-powered would be prohibitively expensive, not to mention that a Nimitz or Ford class carrier has a crew of 5,000+, so we’d struggle to crew two similar ships plus escorts.

      • Indeed if nothing else timing would not have been right, can just imagine the uproar about delayed EMALS it would have put existing whinging into the child with a splinter category. And yes it would have pretty much closed down our National aircraft design and engineering ability which all other Countries with the potential are trying to generate. Worse still that category is a far bigger and vital proportion of UK industrial capability than our competitors and one of the major holds on Bae committing efforts to thus Country. These idiots have no idea whatsoever what the results of such decisions would bring to fruition though that wouldn’t stop them moaning about them later when they happen. It’s the new UK disease refusing to accept any responsibility for the damage inherent in decisions you make based on narrow short term motivations without any concern for their longer term implications that only third World Countries generally emulate.

    • Or the fact we would have very little hope of keeping a CATBAR air wing qualified.

      As for the F35 the 15% share of a programme that is likely to produce many 1000s of jets and be used by pretty much over western nation over the next 70 years is huge.

      The UK airo industry has managed to insert itself in a big way into what is the on western 5th generation fighter show in the west.

      I do wonder in the end if the 6th generation programmes we are seeing now will all collapse into 1 offer in the end. It seems that as we move to newer generations of fighters the ability of nations to develop fighters on their own has passed( maybe even for the US….after all the F22 was not a success story).

      • I think you could be correct mate. We will see technology demonstrators fly, then I still wouldn’t rule out us joining NGAD or joining forces with the French and Germans along with Italy and Japan. The cost are going to be enormous and European air arms are not going to be buying 6th gen in particularly large numbers. The lessons learnt from Typhoon, Rafale and Gripen was that it was to many projects for the EU to handle effectively, and a crowded export market. We should have got behind one, more ambitious airframe and developed a European F22 of sorts. But we couldn’t agree on requirements and the need to protect national industry’s so we have what we have. Tempest has huge potential, but I’m struggling to see how it’s going to be affordable. I hope I’m proven very wrong.

        • agree at present we have the Uk,Japan, Italian offer…their own markets are not going to see more than 300 airframes sold as these nations are all going for F35 fleets as well.

          The French German offer again your probably only talking a few hundred airframes total.

          Then the US offer…let’s be honest that bulk of US fast jets will be F35 so even they are going to end up with a limited internal market.

          every other airforce is either a geopolitical enemy…not trustworthy to sell such tec or will only buy in penny packets…

          im just not seeing how there will be 3 western 6 Gen aircraft will only airframe numbers in the hundreds each…..the development costs will be astronomical and so they will need mass to bring down unit cost..just like the F35.

          • I think your right, essentially the f35 is going to be flying for 70 years so all those smaller European nations and western airforces that have purchased or will purchase f35 are not going to be interested in new six generation aircraft, most airforces don’t have the mass for multiple fleets. So let’s be honest the market for new western 6 gen fighters is probably very limited and will likely be:

            UK, Germany, France, Japan, Italy ( I have my doubts that Italy in the end will go for anything) and the US. The US will do its own thing so that is a really small market for the UK/Japanese and German French six generation offer. To be honest I can see at least one of the projects failing. It would not in the end surprise me if the UK and Japanese project does not merge with the US programme. I think France is so bloody minded it will keep going even if it ends up with a very low number hyper expensive product ( just like the US did with the f22…totally shot themselves in the foot with that one).

          • I’d be willing to put money on that scenario working out. Tempest/NGAD merging and France/Germany doing its own thing. It was a big mistake they didn’t build more F22’s. Even if they didn’t go for the full 750, but capped it at 3 or 4 hundred of them. They could have retired more ageing F15C’s and wouldn’t have required F15EX and spent the money on further developing F22. It’s an amazing machine but has been underdeveloped considering how much the project cost. They could have added more air to ground capability, integrated an HMD and IRST, and improved its networking capability. F35 doesn’t match F22 in brute performance (it wasn’t designed to), but in every other way, it’s a generation ahead.

          • 20 FEBRUARY 2023
            BAE Systems awarded GBP1.4 billion to lead UK GCAP future fighter effort
            The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) has awarded BAE Systems GBP1.4 billion (USD1.7 billion) to lead the country’s Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) effort.

            Announced on 15 February, the award is a continuation of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) research and development work of Team Tempest that comprises the MoD, BAE Systems, Leonardo, MBDA, and Rolls-Royce, and internationalises it under the GCAP programme recently announced with Italy and Japan.

      • Fundamentally you are correct, but there are reasons why I suspect that general trend won’t be the case with the current 5.5/6th gen projects. Japan has shunned the US for a reason esp in the new threat to its very existence in its own locality it needs as much control over its destiny as possible and the whole future of the US isn’t remotely as certain as it has been since WW1 and in a year or so we will start to see that future start to pan out and raise serious questions. Eggs in one basket is becoming far less of an option and only more so as the whole balance of friends an enemies intensifies. Britain isn’t immune from this either even if it’s best placed to stay committed to the US for the time being. However for Europe it’s far less of an option, relationships are far less strong indeed there is a lot of pent up animosity and there is no consistency between European Countries and their US relationships. And of course there is no close military ties whereby the US is willing to ‘share’ like it does with the UK or Australia so they are have to persist with their own military projects or pretty much buy off the shelf with a few crumbs thrown in as compensation. But I do think this might be the last generation where separate projects may be truly independent

    • Some of us actually do and factor in the growing costs per tail along with the endless delays and cost per flight hour. As for the next generation Engine….

      “How much does an F-35 cost per hour?

      $41,986 an hour And compared to the new F/A-18E/F Super Hornet at $30,404

      16 Nov 2022

      “The Navy’s newer force of F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighters are also relatively affordable, at $30,404 an hour.“

      16 Nov 2022

      “The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter costs $41,986 an hour across all models, including the F-35A for the Air Force, the F-35B for the Marine Corps, and the F-35C for the Marine Corps and Navy.“

      “On 6 April 2009, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates proposed speeding up production for the U.S. to buy 2,443 F-35s.”

      Now 1,763 F35A’s down 680 from the original figure and counting.
      “The service is currently evaluating its options through a tactical aircraft study to inform the fiscal 2023 budget, which could result in cuts to the Air Force’s program of record for 1,763 F-35As.”

      LINK

      “Air Force Confirms It Plans To Slash F-35 Buy In 2023—But Can’t Explain Why
      Why buy more outdated combat aircraft while buying fewer new ones?

       “The Air Force plans to spend many hundreds of millions of dollars in its 2023 budget upgrading 60-year-old B-52 bombers and buying new F-15 fighters based on an airframe that commenced design in 1969.

      The service says it has sound reasons for these and other outlays on aged airframes, but it can’t explain why they deserve a higher priority than maintaining production of its most lethal and survivable new combat aircraft.

      Why damage a domestic manufacturing base that is already struggling?

      “Aerospace is one of the few manufacturing sectors in the U.S. that still enjoys a positive balance of trade, and F-35 is by far the biggest government program on which the sector depends.

      It is also one of the few industrial sectors where organized labor continues to play a critical role.

      But according to a letter recently sent to President Biden by F-35 suppliers, a reduction in F-35 quantities will have “an immediate negative and dramatic impact on our businesses and thousands of represented workers who are counting on F-35 for their jobs and livelihood.”

      This is no exaggeration: Lockheed figures F-35 accounts for nearly 300,000 jobs at 1,650 suppliers scattered across 47 states.

      It is also the best bet that America has to continue its leadership of the global market for military aircraft through mid-century.

      And that is before we even get to the domestic political fallout from such an ill-timed move on the eve of mid-term elections.”

      The service is currently evaluating its options through a tactical aircraft study to inform the fiscal 2023 budget, which could result in cuts to the Air Force’s program of record for 1,763 F-35As.

      “We don’t have to make that decision this year,” Hinote said. However, he added, the roles each aircraft played during the war game could influence the outcome of the study “to a great degree.”

      For years, Air Force officials have portrayed the F-35 as the aircraft that it would use to infiltrate into enemy airspace to knock out surface-to-air missiles and other threats without being seen.

      However, in the war game, that role was played by the more survivable NGAD, in part due to the F-35′s inability to traverse the long ranges of the Pacific without a tanker nearby, Hinote said.

      Instead, the F-35 attacked Chinese surface ships and ground targets, protected American and Taiwanese assets from Chinese aircraft, and provided cruise missile defense during the exercise.

      But “it’s not the one that’s pushing all the way in [Chinese airspace], or even over China’s territory,” Hinote said.

      Notably, the F-35s used during the war game were the more advanced F-35 Block 4 aircraft under development, which will feature a suite of new computing equipment known as “Tech Refresh 3″ enhancements to its radar and electronic warfare systems, and new weapons.”

      “Cost overruns on a project to upgrade Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35 cockpit computer have risen another $236 million, nearly doubling the size of the original $712 million contract, US officials said.

      The F-35 Joint Program Office said cost overruns on the project now total $680 million and that delivery of the first jet with the upgraded hardware and software would be pushed back several months from the planned completion date of July 2023. The original contract, from 2018, was valued at $712 million.”

      In short, a bottomless pit. What’s our defence spending looking like currently? Block 4 completion is now set for 2029.

      • I also forgot to mention.

        “Nearly twenty years ago, the USAF set out to develop a replacement for the F-16’s successor, but the program only continued to grow prohibitively expensive as more cutting-edge technology was poured into it.
        When it grew too expensive, other nations were brought in as partners to offset the runaway costs.

        In an ironic twist, the F-35 has become the kind of dilemma it was initially supposed to resolve. Now, a new fighter jet is needed to meet the needs of the US Air Force. 

        Running the F-35 for 66 years is expected to cost $1.182 trillion, on top of its already hefty development cost of $397.8 billion. The F-35 costs slightly less than $100 million per plane. But the cost is the least of its concerns.”

        In short, If it had worked as advertised at the time, the chances are we and other nations would not have had access to it.

        And still no date set for full-rate production with Block 4 being pushed back “again” until 2029 and counting.

        LINK

          • You seem to forget the original number these days! Any reason why 😂

            “On 6 April 2009, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates proposed speeding up production for the U.S. to buy 2,443 F-35s.”

            Now 1,763 F35A’s down 680 from the original figure and counting.

            “The service is currently evaluating its options through a tactical aircraft study to inform the fiscal 2023 budget, which could result in cuts to the Air Force’s program of record for 1,763 F-35As.”

            LINK

          • How’s that F21 coming on? Why didn’t they buy 750 F22’s? Why didn’t we buy 250 or 232 Typhoons? Why hasn’t France bought 300 Rafale’s? you get the drift Nigel. 1,763 Is still one hell of a number. And that number doesn’t include US Navy or USMC numbers or the hundreds flying across the globe. 25 F35 operating bases now and counting. Try finding a link from a serving F35 pilot who thinks like you do about the aircraft. Good luck with that.

          • UK 48 contracted to buy with a possible increase to 72. What happened to the 138 figure banded about? Can’t afford them?

            Big numbers eh 😂 Over the lifetime of the programme?

            The contract agrees to the procurement of 36 F-35As to be delivered between 2027 and 2030. The advanced capabilities of the 5th Generation F-35 will ensure the Swiss Air Force can defend Swiss sovereignty for decades to come.

            15 Dec 2022

            German pilots are slated to train with the first German-lot F-35s in the U.S. beginning in 2026. Training will move to Germany the following year, before the Luftwaffe, declares an initial operational capability in 2028.

            To Replace their Nuclear capability.

            “After formalizing its purchase of 35 F-35As to replace its nuclear-capable Panavia Tornados Wednesday, Germany must reckon with the possibility that Lockheed won’t be able to start delivering them by the 2027 deadline the deal specifies.” 😂

            How many F-35s did Poland buy?
            32

            Foreign Military Sales Program

            16 Sept 2022

            “Under the program, foreign countries are allowed to purchase F-35 jets manufactured by Lockheed Martin and then be trained at a US base. Poland bought 32 of the jets in 2019 in a deal worth more than $6 billion.“

            Canada

            9 Jan 2023

            As outlined in Strong, Secure, Engaged, Canada has committed to purchase a new fleet of 88 advanced fighter jets for the RCAF, and today, the federal government announced that this new fleet will be comprised of F-35 jets.

        • Two years old like the comments he posts and still doesn’t get it.

          One for the readers here that are concerned about the spiralling costs.

          9 Jan 2023

          The first four aircraft to be delivered in 2026, the next six in 2027, and the next six in 2028, with the full fleet to arrive in time to enable the phase-out of the CF-18s by the end of 2032.

          Upgrades
          
          “Delays come with some benefits in that aircraft from LOT 15 and later will have hardware updates under the Technology Refresh 3 (TR-3) programme.
          These include a new L3Harris [LHX] integrated core processor and memory unit, 25 x the power of the current system and capable of running future Block IV software upgrades.

          TR-3 also includes upgrades to the Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS), an improved Electronic Warfare processor and new receivers plus the Distributed Aperture System (DAS), which provides a 360º view to the pilot, including through the fuselage, via the helmet and a panoramic cockpit display.

          If the UK decides it can afford to retrofit Block IV capability for its entire tranche 1 fleet, at an estimated cost of around £22M per aircraft, it would total more than £1Bn for all 48 jets.

          The software update is a critical requirement, needed to integrate the UK F-35’s two most potent weapons, SPEAR-3 and the beyond-visual-range Meteor air-air missile.”

          • And how many years have I been telling you about this?

            Leonardo claims that ECRS Mk 2 will be the world’s most capable active electronically scanned array (AESA) fighter radar, and says it promises to make Typhoon the ideal partner in any fourth/fifth-generation and unmanned force mix for decades to come.

            It was once expected that many leading air forces would move to an all-stealth, all-fifth-generation force structure, and that fourth-generation fighters would have no part to play.

            But the growing vulnerability of stealth aircraft to new and developing counter-stealth systems, coupled with their high cost, has led to a growing emphasis on operating fourth- and fifth-generation fighters together, in a more complementary and synergistic fashion.

            This is what lies behind the resurgence of the Block III Super Hornet and Growler, and also the development of Boeing’s advanced F-15EX.

          • All that’s happening Nigel, are more nations are buying F35. Share what links you like, it doesn’t make a blind bit of difference. So you go ahead and waste your time. I’ll look out for the next F35 order. Or take a trip to RAF Marham or Lakenheath. You can sit and watch how impressive they are with a coffee and a bacon roll. 👍 Oh, and F15EX is to replace ageing F15C’s, because they didn’t buy enough F22’s. And they are looking at capping the order at 80 somthing instead of 144.

          • “Or take a trip to RAF Marham or Lakenheath. You can sit and watch how impressive they are with a coffee and a bacon roll.”

            Don’t forget to take your anorak with you.

            If that gets boring, try this instead!

            LINK

            Below are some important tips.

            Do not cross the yellow line at stations. …Do not wave with both arms in the air – this should only be done in an emergency and you need the train to stop for safety reasons.Advise station staff of your presence. …Try to keep out of the way of commuters.
            I’ve even found a new forum for you to join. 😂

          • At what range? Meteor has slipped to 2027 and counting.

            It might get the first look….

            It flies at well over Mach 3 to ranges in excess of 25 kilometres (16 mi). It retains a 50 g manoeuvrability provided by body lift technology coupled with tail …
            Operational range: 25+ km

            AIM-120A/B/C-3/4 – 27 nmi (50 km) AIM-120C-5/6/7 – 57 nmi (105 km) AIM-120D – 86 nmi (160 km)

          • Well, a,Typhoon isn’t going to be engaging a F35 is it. Because we don’t sell them to the bad guys. Did that minor point not cross your mind? No, thought not.

          • I wonder if the anorak in the room bothered to look in China’s direction? If we listened to you we would have no defence budget left and shot to shit in the process.

            Time to stop knocking one out in your deckchair watching the F-35 take off at  $41,986 an hour with a bacon buttie in the other and look at what’s really happening in the world.

            9 Sept 2022

            The PL-15 poses a greater performance challenge not only in terms of range, but also of speed regarding the AIM-120D3 (the latest model of the AMRAAM) and the Meteor.

            The Meteor’s ramjet sustainer keeps the missile powered potentially throughout its flight, including in the terminal phase of engaging a target aircraft.

            How accurate is PL-15?

            “Because of the use of multiple guidance methods, the PL-15E missile can maintain strike accuracy at a maximum range of 145 kilometres.”

            Because of the use of multiple guidance methods, the PL-15E missile can maintain strike accuracy at a maximum range of 145 kilometres.

            “The US media said that China’s new ultra-long-range air-to-air missile codenamed “PL-21“, which is 5 meters long, uses a high-thrust ballistic and double-pulse solid rocket engine, uses active radar and infrared imaging dual-mode guidance, and is guided by a two-way data link. Ballistics can be launched by mounting on the J-16 and J-20.

            The US Air Force believes that the air-to-air missile has a range of 400 kilometres and can pose a huge threat to US military early warning aircraft, electronic warplanes and other special aircraft.”

            Do your homework first.

            Today’s F-35As Not Worth Including In High-End War Games According To Air Force General

            LINK

          • Wow did, your mum give you that idea for a comment. Some of us have worked on fast jets for real. You’d struggle to even find Marham. Or maybe your to old to drive now. 😁

          • It’s called a force mix Nigel. And I’m fully aware of the future capability of ECRS MK2. But it’s still a good few years away. F35 will be getting equipped with it’s 2nd AESA Radar before RAF Typhoon gets it’s first. And F35 will still hold the advantage because of its all aspect stealth. He who sees first, shoots first, kills first.

        • And this of course,

          “That, however, has been a major sticking point. The Joint Program Office has made clear that any member of the F-35 program that wants to be “different” has to pay the full cost for that, which would include the development and integration of the AETP engines.

          It’s unclear whether the Navy, the Marine Corps, or any of the other nations in the F-35 program are interested in splitting the costs of such an effort with the Air Force.

          GE Aviation, the maker of one of the AETP engines, has said its engine wouldn’t be able to go in the Marines F-35Bs, though it would fit on the Navy’s F-35Cs.

          “Each of the services and each of our partners is in a different situation with regard to the economics of doing that and the performance requirements,” Kendall said.”

          LINK 

        • FEB 15, 2023

          Not a Lot of F-35s Are Flying Right Now
          “A new report finds that the F-35 isn’t keeping up with combat readiness goals and fell behind previous records in 2022. The Pentagon’s costliest weapons program has a long way to go before it can compete with older and less expensive combat aircraft in terms of availability to fly actual missions.

          Between 2021 and 2022, the F-35A’s availability dropped 11 percentage points from 65 percent to 54, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report.

          The F-35B’s availability also dipped by seven percentage points—from 61 percent to 54. Meanwhile, the F-35C’s availability jumped from 53 percent to 58 percent.

          The report also found that the F-35 had a lower mission-capable rate than older F-22s and F-15s.

          Not all F-35s are the same, and the same holds true for their mission readiness rates. For example, the F-35A variant flown by the U.S. Air Force, which uses conventional take-off and landing, is ready to fly more of the time than the short take-off-capable Marines’ F-35Bs and the Navy’s F-35Cs.”

          LINK

  12. So 1000 F35s and now many are we buying. Everyone is buying more than the UK. We have 2 joke carriers each designed to carry 65, how many has the Royal Navy got, 10. No wonder we are a joke.

    • The U.K. currently has 26 F35Bs, with 7 more expected this year, with an initial plan for 74 in total.

      The carriers standard complement is 24 F35Bs plus helicopters, drones, etc.

      As for “everyone is buying more”, that’s not true either. The following are all ordering less; Australia, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Israel, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, South Korea, Singapore, Switzerland.

    • I don’t think any nation would consider a queen Elizabeth with 30+ F35Bs a joke…infact it’s the single most potent carrier force apart from the US. It is also greater navel air power than any of our enemies can deploy.

      • Doesn’t change the fact that it should still be a CATOBAR boat.

        There isn’t another fixed wing aircraft that can operate from it. No aerial refueling options, COD, the helicopter AEW isn’t working well, the commander of the CSG said that mid cruise.

        • Why would we want to operate a less capable aircraft? CATOBAR is much more expensive, requires a much larger flight deck crew, more maintenance, longer refits, and a much larger training burden for the pilots to stay deck qualified. Merlin AEW is still at IOC, full operating capability will come soon enough. We have a very extensive global logistics footprint in place to support the carrier’s when deployed. And A2A refueling capability could still come in UCAV form. Along with other ISTAR capability. We don’t have the budget of the US. But these two vessels represent the most capable carrier force available outside of the US Navy, and still plenty of capability to come over the coming years.

        • There are some very practical reasons why we did not go down CATOBAR.

          1) EMALS is still not working…every on average every 500 launches the whole system breaks and needs fixing. If we had gone with EMALs we would have non deployable carriers.
          2) the Elizabeth has a better sortie rate in its present form than as a CATOBAR carrier.
          3) The Elizabeth can launch and recover aircraft in a far higher sea state that a CATOBAR carrier.
          4) this is the most important thing…it is very very costly and difficult to maintain an air wings carrier qualification….you have to effectively have a permanently deployed air wing which is extremely costly and wears out your jets pilots and money…you also cannot surge extra jets like you can with an Elizabeth.we can keep all our jets parked up in nice environmentally controlled hangers and our pilots how with their families until we need them..France has an appalling time trying to keep a carrier qualified air wing for its CATOBAR carrier.

          stuff like AEW and air to air refuelling can be sorted it’s just about money.

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