HMS Prince of Wales will shortly arrive in Scotland to load up on ammunition.
The aircraft carrier is expected to leave Portsmouth today, not long after the recent return of her sister from repairs in Scotland..
The 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier is heading to Glenmallan in Scotland for a routine logistics visit. Sister ship HMS Queen Elizabeth previously visited the Northern Ammunition Jetty at Glen Mallan near Faslane since the jetty was upgraded.
According to a news release on the upgrade work:
“We awarded a £67m contract to VolkerStevin in 2019. Alongside them, we worked with managing agent Jacobs, which provided engineering and professional services, as well as designer Arch Henderson. In completing this major project, £20m was spent with local suppliers and small and medium enterprises in Scotland.
The jetty was last upgraded in the 1970s and had reached the end of its economic life. The upgrade work has not only extended the life of the jetty by an estimated fifty years, but has also made the site accessible for the Royal Navy’s aircraft carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales.
In fact, HMS Queen Elizabeth visited part way through the work, back in March 2021, in preparation for her first operational deployment. This was not originally planned but became necessary when the scale of the ship’s deployment increased, presenting the team with a challenge to make the jetty operational in time for her arrival. Everyone involved, from DIO, VolkerStevin, Jacobs and the various subcontractors worked closely together to enable HMS Queen Elizabeth to berth at the unfinished jetty, which she did successfully.”
In other news, the new Labour Government recently confirmed that the Royal Navy’s Carrier Strike Group, led by HMS Prince of Wales, will be deployed to the Indo-Pacific region in 2025. This announcement reaffirms plans laid out under the previous Conservative Government.
In a parliamentary question asked by James Cartlidge, Conservative MP for South Suffolk, on 17th July 2024, the status of the deployment was queried.
Luke Pollard, Parliamentary Under-Secretary at the Ministry of Defence, confirmed on 25th July 2024 that the Ministry plans to proceed with the deployment. “Yes, the Ministry of Defence plans to deploy HMS Prince of Wales to the Indo-Pacific in 2025,” Pollard stated.
Earlier this year, under the Conservative Government, Grant Shapps highlighted the strategic importance of such deployments. He detailed that sending HMS Prince of Wales to the Indo-Pacific was intended to send a strong message against any attempts to undermine the rules-based international order.
“In an increasingly volatile world where we can no longer take peace for granted, it’s critical to stand united with our allies and partners in defence of democracy and freedom,” Shapps had said.
HMS Prince of Wales will lead the UK Carrier Strike Group in a series of operations and exercises, including a port visit to Japan. The mission is designed to enhance defence relationships and demonstrate UK commitment to the Indo-Pacific. Shapps had noted the significance of joint exercises in conveying the UK’s readiness to respond to global threats and support free trade and travel.
This deployment follows the precedent set by HMS Queen Elizabeth, which led the 2021 Carrier Strike Group on a journey covering 55,000 nautical miles from the eastern Atlantic to Japan and back.
During that deployment, the armed forces engaged diplomatically with over 40 nations, underscoring the importance of maintaining a global naval presence.
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I think it was mistake to not have the carrier force test its operations vis avis Houthis.
We probably don’t have enough craft to take out of training pipeline. Had we had maybe a few Mojave or equivalent and gone beyond testing only they you could probably spare a few f35s to do CAP and send the drones for any air missions? (Assuming we have by now managed to take out any anti air long range launchers?). Maybe sprinkle with a few apache similar to Libya and HMS Ocean. But as it stands I don’t think we have enough airframes.
Deploy a couple thousand sailors in a carrier and escorts for a few weeks to do a job 4 typhoons and a Tanker could do from Cyprus where they are already deployed for shader and essentially permanently based. Just not cost effective and probably more risk.
No training like on-the-job training though
Expensive and time consuming and the Akrotiri force was already there.
Complete nonsense as the Falklands War demonstrated.
That makes no sense as reply, not saying never deploy a carrier. In this case the UK had assets available to do the job required at a fraction of the time and cost. Why spend millions sending more that isn’t required?
The Cyprus aircraft only attack. The carrier force F-35 would intercept missiles and drones and also attack. It would be a great training.
For me this leads me to believe that RN don’t have confidence in carrier force preparation yet.
A very big expensive way to do that really and can only ever be short term. No way a a whole carrier group can deploy long term in this task. A type 45/23 and the typhoons at Akrotiri are doing the task for a fraction of the cost and on a long term basis rather than some big expensive short term gesture with a carrier.
Always very picturesque when any of the carriers visit Glenmallan. Hope they have decent loads out from there and that we have enough weapons stockpile for repeated visits. If this ever gets attacked do we have an alternate site for weapons storage for navy assets? Or usual cost cutting has made it all eggs in one basket?
DM Glen Douglas is the facility the ships are drawing the munitions from. It is east, north east of Mallan and buried under hills. Glen Mallan is just the munitions jetty to transfer aboard. Yes, there are other munitions sites on MoD estate. RNAD Coulport, and DMs Beith, Crombie, Kineton, Longtown, Ernsettle, Gosport. Gosport, Ernsettle are co located with HMNBs Portsmouth and Devonport. Crombie, Beith and Coulport I believe also store naval munitions. There have been cuts in this area over the years, Dean Hill and Eastriggs in more recent times closed. Below these major sites, there are several munitions… Read more »
Kineton – “You can’t enter here, you have a bottle of pop in your cab!”
Is that as the saying goes due to it wiping out most the midlands if it goes bang?
On another news .Italian orders 2 FREMM EVO for 1.5 B€
Notice in the 3D model how the dual band planar radars is split between a structure over the bridge and another over the helicopter hangar.
Also 76mm guns fore and aft- the first time I’ve seen that on a design since the Ticonderoga cruisers.
Wish we could do something similar with the 57, would look excellent in CGI.
I keep reading about this deployment next year but can’t figure out in my head where the escorts are coming from. Obviously we can use allies where they are available, but all I can picture from the RN at the minute is one or two T45’s and maybe a T23 if we are lucky. So at least one US destroyer required and potentially two allied frigates? And that’s before you mention the RFA issues.
It really is very usual to have a mix of sources for the escorts: RN; Commonwealth; NATO. No need to worry.
I would be more concerned at the RFA issue.
It is only usual because of our shortages of escorts. Yes I’m all for using our allies but shit like Brexit doesn’t help.
What has NATO to do with Brexit?
Even the USN often has allied escorts in a Carrier Task Force, not because they themselves are short of escorts, but because interoperability and working with allies is what NATO is all about.
I don’t get the Brexit comment, in this context.
Completely agree! No way Fort Vic is going to be sea-worthy and crewed up in time. They will probably look to run 2x Tide Boats, justifying a set of 40′ ISO containers on the bow as a solid support capability. Which means no munitions reload if things get spicy. Also means thrashing the Tides back and forth out of foreign ports to resupply provisions and stores.
Thanks for the detailed comment. This is not credible for a Rank 2 Bluewater Navy.
The Escort situation is dire with perhaps just 8 Type 23s left in service of which only one has a towed array. As you say “don’t mention the RFAs” which is catastrophic . The outgoing Tories have a lot to answer for re our armed forces.
Only two don’t have a towed array: Lancaster and Iron Duke.
“of which only one has a towed array.”
? I believe most the tailed are still about.
Great piece released on Navy Lookout today/yesterday looking at the state of the FF fleet, well worth a read.
I’m almost too scared to…The Tories delays in getting in with the 13 new Frigates has cost us badly.
What about the previous Labour govt halving the T45 numbers?
Howard. I know, if you’ve read my posts on this forum for the last 7 years I lambast blasted Labour often enough.
I’m well aware, and have stated here, escorts dropped from 35 to 23 under them.
I’m on about Frigates, if the Tories had not delayed our frigate force would not be literally falling apart due to late replacements.
Two from St Albans, Richmond, Sutherland, Somerset?
Bearing in mind the length of the carrier deployment (6-7months?) and the length of time after that where ships would be unavailable (all ships that returned last time were tied up for months iirc), I can’t really see two T23’s being committed to it. Realistically if we only have 8 left, likely 2-3 are actually available to be (or are) deployed at any time. 4 at a push. If you start over committing the tiny number we have left they will just drop faster.
We are expected to have more than the average number of frigates available next year, and that’s no coincidence. As well as the four I mentioned above, Portland should still be active. Lancaster and Iron Duke will both be working. The cost of that is 2026 will be a problem year no matter what. If Richmond went on CSG 25, I’d expect it to go straight into long term refit at the end of 2025. Portland would join her in 2026. Lancaster will probably be decommissioned in 2026 (although many think it could be extended) and I don’t know when… Read more »
With regard to Northumberland, NL suggests that its been found to be beyond economical repair. Otherwise what you’ve added is good information. Certainly more than I knew. My only add on would be that the trend for ‘going in refit’ seems to change to ‘decommissioning’ more often than not at the minute. Reverting to my last statement, if we send two of them round the world on this particular deployment, that will likely be the last trip at least one of them makes. With the delays to any replacements I’d be very hesitant to send more than one. Whilst its… Read more »
That’s depressing news about Northumberland, and it wouldn’t surprise me if the same happened with Richmond next year as there’s only a year between them on launch date. Like Westminster before them, all Swan Hunters of the same period. I feel these ships are a bit Schrodinger: they work well enough until you look, then they are binary repairable/irreparable. So we might as well send Richmond if it’s going to be a dead duck either way. Just don’t look at it first.
‘Just don’t look at it first’ – my thoughts exactly!
This is good news and suggests that the new government, at least for the moment, is listening and taking note of the briefings it is getting from the civil service. A huge amount of work will have already gone into the planning of CSG25, including a lot of diplomacy with friends and allies around the world. Cancelling would send a very very negative message. The downside is that the RN is going to struggle to find a frigate to support the deployment as according to Navy Lookout, HMS Northumberland may be beyond economical repair potentially reducing frigate numbers to 8…… Read more »
There does need to be austerity, but not on defence, which has bore the brunt of austerity. Foreign aid budget needs to be reduced dramatically, contingent on reforms in recieving countries, and focused on areas where there is a much bigger return on investment, such as family planning. Not sure this new government is listening to anyone bar special interest groups, as the events of the last week or so have shown. They are already lining up their excuses for more cuts. Does anyone truly believe that Labour are going to fulfill their 2.5% pledge given they’ve just cut winter… Read more »
Are you serious, you are suggesting that labour will do worse than the clowns that have just been kicked out after a catastrophic 14 years. When Labour were last in power the defence spending was 2.7% of GDP. Of course in 2010 our GDP per capita was on par with the USA Vs Now the USA is four times ours which the achieved by massive investment not Austerity which is a recipe for it disaster.
Yes, much worse I fear. Our GDP per capita has never been as high as the USA, and it is not currently 4 times less. No idea where you are getting your stats from but you might want to reconsider your sources. Defence spending when labour came to power in 1997 was 2.7%, but had reduced to about 2.5% by 2010 when they left power. And their refusal to implement any degree of fiscal austerity for the crash that happened on their watch, and was much worse than most other countries, meant that the bulk of the cuts were attributed… Read more »
Not one of the stats you quote is accurate. 2010 was 2.47 % which included the costs of the idiotic intervention in Afghanistan.
GDP per capita, usually calculated on nominal gdp not ppp, is not 25% of the USA. Information readily available.
Idiotic? What was idiotic was the mission creep.
Do you mean in 1910 our GDP was on par with the USA?
By the time she’s finished dolloping out loads of cash in the public sector pay rises which apparently she doen’t have the money for due to a “black hole” that she new about three months ago (?) there won’t be any money for defence.
The public sector pay rise includes the armed forces which at the moment cannot recruit. The problem is that the Tories made spending commitments which they have not allocated any funding . The public sector pay will settle down the NHS so that they can start dealing with the backlog. I agree that Labour will struggle to implement 2.5% which I point out was made by the Tories with again no idea how they would fund it.
Bit of a contradiction, spending commitments with no funding so Labour are currently allocating even further spending allocations with no funding but have cancelled a tunnel under Stonehenge to apparently fund everything.
Massive cuts are coming, oh sorry massive additional taxes are coming, oh no sorry cant say that either its actually both!!
Reeves has said she will have to raise some taxes in the October budget.
The armed forces always struggle to recruit during periods of low unemployment – but it’s a lifestyle choice more than anything.
The anti-British rhetoric from large parts of the left wing media etc turns people off serving their country, especially minorities who are the fastest growing segment of the UK population. And those who would be willing to serve the country feel less inclined to do so because they are not sure what they’d be defending anymore.
The recruitment process, mishandled by Capita who are making a fortune out of it, is badly dysfunctional, which is more a problem than what you mention. It actively deters applicants by being too lengthy & incompetant.
If the Tories did leave a “black hole” in the budget, and I say if, given that Reeves had all the papers back in May so she would have known then, how is it that she can award pay rises, without any review, costing over £12 billion so far. In other words half the supposed deficet. The NHS budget, not counting additional Covid money, rose from £131 billion under the Tories to £185 billion last year. A rise of over forty per cent so the NHS, when they’re not on strike, shouldn’t have any problems as it stands. As for… Read more »
The armed forces pay award at least, follows from a review process by an independent pay review body.
Agrred Graham, but I would still argue that any pay award should have waited until we knew which wa swe are going when the Defence Review findings are annouced. Don’t get me wrong. As you know, I am in favour os improved pay and conditioins for the armed forces They desrve it but it’s getting the right people in the right places that concerns me.
The forces have a Pay Award every year. It would be very wrong to not give a Pay Award this year – the Defence Review does not report until the first half of 2025. This Pay Award has allowed recruits to have the Living Wage for the first time ever. How many people in any sector would give up having a pay award and have their salary further eroded by inflation which has been up to 10% in the last 12 months? Recruiting would have an even worse nosedive if there had been no military pay rise this year, and… Read more »
I think we’re talking at cross perposes here. I’m not saying that there shouldn’t have been an award, maybe inflationary, but that the whole process of who we need to do which jobs is supposedly going to be reviewed in the defence review. I find the whole Reeves process as baffling anyway. She moans about the £22 billion “black hole” one minute, which she would have known about months ago if it exists at all, and is now using an excuse, and then hands out billions of pounds she has just said she hasn’t got. This is classic Labour from… Read more »
Thanks Geoff. I am sure the Defence Review will modify the structure of the three armed forces in some way. We are all no doubt hoping for manpower and platform increases just about everywhere, which of course won’t happen – in the classic phrase – ‘there will be winners and losers’.
The £22bn black hole seems to be unfunded Tory government projects – well she can cancel some or all of them.
She has already apparently said that there will be some tax rises in the October budget.
Always winners and losers Graham..such is life. Forgive me if I have one more try with the “black hole” It only exists if the money has been spent on nothing. If the spend can be cancelled it is not a black hoel. It is an accounting evercise. As for tax rise, why? We had six weeks of being told there wouldn’t be any. Now apparently all sorts of manouvers are up for grabs. I just don’t trust her. To be fair I didn’t take too kindly to Osborne and co. either. ⏱will tell.
Hi Geoff, perhaps we need an economist to define a black hole! Would a government really spend something on nothing? The way I see it is…. I have a wish to buy a Ferrari next week costing £100,000 and I declare this intention publically to anyone who will listen. Trouble is my household budget does not have that money available. Black hole. I can close the black hole by not buying the car. Tax rise. Why? She will never be able to close all of the last Tory Government’s £20bn black holes and she has spending plans of her own… Read more »
I don’t think we are going to be able to agree on this one Graham. A black hole in my book only exists if the money has been spent , otherwise whatever it was for can be stopped. Assuming the balck hole is there she shouldn’t be spending £1 billion per day as soon as she gets into office. She should be looking at fiscal commom sense. As for this Labour clap trap about ordinary working people they all keep coming up with it applies, in my opinion, to anyone who has a job. Rhetoric should also protect pensioners who… Read more »
Hi Geoff. I would have thought that if MoD has the money for a programme and spent it, then there can’t be a black hole relating to that equipment. You are saying that if MoD spends, yet hasn’t yet got the kit, that is a black hole. So, to take Ajax as an example, MoD has spent 90% of its programme budget but not one vehicle has properly entered service, just a few out with units on trials/evaluation. I don’t see that as cause for concern – they will be built and they will be fielded. Anyway, let us move… Read more »
Yes. I think provided the money is committed to a programme it’s not a black hole. If the money has gone for nothing then it is. As you say though, I think we’ve 🔨hammered this one. Pay awards? Probably. I do take your point but giving inflation busting awards now may , and probably will, come back to haunt her. As for the rest there seems to be a new threat everyday but how much is the press, how much is reality. Back to time will tell. I’ve never ben greatly impreese with her but now she has her new… Read more »
I have never had much of a view about Ms Reeves but she seems determined to play hard ball in areas where she has discretionary freedom of action – its like a badge of honour for her.
For someone who stresses that all hangs on the need to boost growth and productivity, she seems to have done nothing in that regard and may not do anything substantive before the end-of-October budget.
Other radical Chancellors have put ground-breaking policies in place in their first few weeks.
Yep. Almost back to my original thoughts. She doesn’t draw breath before she spends more on whatever.
The Independent of 23/4/24 said “It is understood that two-thirds of the uplift in defence spending will be paid for by reducing the civil service headcount to pre-Covid levels. The government has announced plans to cut the equivalent of 70,000 jobs – with £2.9bn of savings being redirected to the defence budget”.
That was under the Tories but is it still an active policy? Defence Review again?🤔
Geoff, the question was about how the Tories would have funded the uplift to 2.5% of GDP. I answered that question.
Clearly Labour may well have a different way of funding the increase to 2.5%.
Okay but the question still remains. The Tories were going to do it by cutting Civil service jobs but are Labour going to make any cuts in the public sector to do the same. I very much doubt it but time will tell, as always.
Hi Geoff, To be fair public sector workers are the ones who undertake everything from defending the country to fixing the roads… Yes she has given them an above inflation pay rise costing £7b, but that is going to people who mostly are low to medium earners who have had will likely spend it on essentials. So it is probably the most powerful thing any government has done in recent years to grow the economy. We talk about calculating the tax take on defence spending to work out the true cost of defence so we should also consider that there… Read more »
A huge proportion of that extra public sector pay rise is going to junior doctors, who will be within the top 3% of earners in the country in less than 5 years time (and who are already significantly above average). That’s in addition to the tax on their pension pots reaching a value of £1+ million being scrapped by the conservatives (basically their compensation was so generous that they were all retiring early to avoid more taxes).
There is only one group of people that can sustain the economy, that is to say make money for the country, and that is the private sector. The bizarre thing about the election we’ve just had is that the economy was strong, despite Covid, a world energy crisis and wars in the Ukraine and the middle east which dramatically affected food prices. Yes, we did have high inflation and high interest rates for many months but both have come down. Unemployment is low and job vacancies high. The best thing that she can do for the private sector, my friend,… Read more »
I fear that the CSG deployment will be a display of weakness rather than strength. Until such time as it is a proper, fully equipped and defended task group, it might be better not to undertake such an operation at all.
I doubt CSG 25 will lack for good defences. Enough escorts will be found from the usual sources: RN; Commonwealth, NATO.
Please send the CSG via Sydney or Freo for a visit when you are done. It will be the first time I will be able to see an RN carrier here in Australia since Invincible, Illustrious and Ark Royal in Fremantle in the 1980s. Show the flag!
yes please Jack ! I second that request!☝
Also a bit of history, go look up ‘USS Robin’ at the excellent ‘Armoured Carriers’ site to get a write up of how important Victorious was to holding the Pearl-Fiji-Brisbane line in the Pacific in 1942-3.
Hi Jack,
Thanks for the heads up on ‘USS Robin’. A very interesting read.
Cheers CR
I echo CR above, really interesting bit of forgotten history here! Good effort.
Cheers gents, if you liked that I would suggest the same site above, their presentation of Operation C, the attack on Ceylon by Nagumo’s Kido Butai. Did you know Admiral Somerville with Formidable and Indomitable closed and very nearly delivered a radar guided Albacore night torpedo attack on them, for which they had no night AA defence? Incredibly aggressive commanding given the opponent. It’s another of the stories one never hears about.
I have a horrible thought that most Americans might now know the contribution the very powerful British Pacific Fleet (BPF) made to defeating the Japanese.
Yes GM., a very good read also The British Pacific Fleet, by Cdr David Hobbs RN ret.. He also has a very impressive collection of photographs to illustrate. Recommended read to those who haven’t.👍🙃🕳️Btth
🙂
What a fascinating read -thank you Jack!
Seems very inconvenient to have to sail hundreds of miles north to arm the carriers. If they need to sail urgently we need to be able to arm them much closer to home, preferably Portsmouth.
Glen Mallan is c400 miles as the crow flies, but more like 750 if you go around Devon & cornwall, Wales etc.
The munitions site at Gosport which serves Portsmouth holds differing munitions and missile types to those at Glen Douglas, so has a different role.
I have to say i thought the same. I was under the impression POW was the alert carrier on short notice to sail in the absence of QE. If that was the case I’d have hoped she had plenty of ammunition in her already, unless of coarse there is something specialist/experimental being loaded for her upcoming deployment. A second thought is that QE now returned to Portsmouth and presumably taking over said 48 hours to sail notice, didn’t go to said area to stock up with ammunition en-route to Portsmouth so she almost definitely doesn’t have anything on board. As… Read more »
There are some good open-source details on this, just had a quick google. There is also a lot on the readiness profiles in the ‘Ready For War’ document from the Select Committee (spoiler, were not!) When QNLZ was unable to go on Steadfast Defender, she was held at 5 days’ notice as the Very High Readiness unit. The second carrier was held at 30 days’ (and sailed in 8!) as a High Readiness unit. The VHR unit will be ‘bombed up’ to meet contingency tasking but not specific tasking. If it is on board then it heightens risk, boring but… Read more »
Great replies with solid information. Thanks for sharing.
I’m a bit scared to read the ‘Ready for War’ document. When I was growing up I was taught that for every problem you can see there are probably ten you can’t. Bearing in mind the amount of issues we already know about (hull/equipment numbers, manning levels, recruitment/training issues, etc), I can’t even begin to imagine what might be hiding under the proverbial carpet, so to speak.
Greatest restriction is the safe Net Explosive Quantity that the port is allowed to handle. Any explosive has to equate the potential explosion as ‘X KGs of TNT’. So a port may have an NEQ of 200KG, meaning only 200KGs of TNT can be handled at any time. This could equate to a single bomb or a container of fireworks. You couldn’t open the magazines to load in Portsmouth even if you wanted to as it would breach the local NEQ; even in warfighting circumstances. Glen Mallen is the sensible choice and really isn’t that inconvenient. You will also need… Read more »
Is it armed with bows and arrows patriotism and brains and being sent up the thames to rid our traitors from the house of commons
Scotland is part of great Britain…see headline.