HMS Prince of Wales, currently on her way to the United States, has conducted night gunnery training.
Some great images of this were posted by the ship on Twitter, I’ve placed those images below.
3️⃣… pic.twitter.com/nuxBgp07kV
— HMS Prince of Wales (@HMSPWLS) September 17, 2023
What is HMS Prince of Wales up to?
HMS Prince of Wales will be operating off the Eastern Seaboard of the USA until Christmas as she conducts experiments with F-35 Lightning stealth fighters, MV-Osprey tilt-rotors, and the Mojave drone.
Are the CIWS in place?
no they decided the odds of US navy firing on us isnt that high
I am well aware that the USN is an ally. Just wondered what and if will be fitted in the near future.
No ciws like the old harpoon are fitted on a threat basis so when big liz went round the world it’s fitted, trials of drones in US no. You can see the threat level as no escort group. Where as South China Sea gets full load of weapons f35 and ciws
We don’t want to look threatening in the new woke Britain
In plain English, we don’t have enough to fit them to all active ships. Same obviously with the 30mm mounts.
Actually can’t remember who it was but someone posted how many ciws the uk bought and was surprising numbers
Apparently we upgraded 20 ciws to modern model so we have 20
The 30mm and the new 40mm the MOD have loads spare but decided the risk in major fleet action of hitting frigate with 40mm was too much as would cause major damage and cover deck of carrier with frag
Unbelievable really. Isn’t the carrier higher in the water than other ships in the fleet? Why not remove all guns and put in hoses…. No other navy on the planet seems to be doing/thinking the same thing. How about some trainable SEA decoy launchers, including anti torpedo defences and maybe an extra CIWS to give these fantastic ships and very expensive assets a more comprehensive defensive armament? Said this before, the forward 40mm from the T31s could be removed and put on the Carriers or buy some more if not enough 30mm or CIWS. Note even on the FSS’s, 2 CIWS plus 2x30mm, so hope they don’t fire all those when close to other ships.
So in light of the USV revolution going on in the Black Sea what are people’s views on the Carriers’ defenses?
Is a ‘kinetic’ (sorry) upgrade needed or can we just stick more EW bits somewhere?
In this increasingly hostile and unpredictable international environment any additional kinetic or electronic spectrum multipliers that have been installed with pace and increased agility, will provide a huge uplift in versatility, global presence and resilience for the surface fleet allowing it to provide a credible fighting force across the full spectrum of global military operations.
In short more woosh bang is always nice and also Pinky stuff would be good.
Multiple GPMGs lashed to the rails a la Operation Corporate ? (Probably HMG favoured option as it’s the cheapest)
Fitting supplementary weapons to all our capital ships and larger RFA vessels seems necessary to me. the Bofors 40mm mounts would be a good option as bolt onto the hull and not deck penetrating. Ditto a hard kill anti-torpedo/ anti-mine system would seem a vital self defence upgrade that is very much overdue.
Totally Mr Bell. What with all the 40mms coming for the T31s, they could surely get a some more for the carriers. And a few SEA Ancilla Decoy launchers each as shown in DSEI, wouldn’t break the bank. A bit of bulk buying. And know what you’re aiming at so no stupid excuses about hitting the ships next door either!
Dont forget LMGs…
We used LMGs the Booties had first takes on the GPMGs WSM
Nice to see some 50 cals on board!!
So they have .50cal do they have anything akin too the 20mm Gambo1 as the old Invincible class had along with her 30mm phalanx/ Goalkeeper CIWS ?
FBNW (as per usual) four 30mm DS30Ms, can have up to 4 Phalanx depending on threat level and a number of .50cals, miniguns and GPMGs.
Obviously, sailing to the US we aren’t going to be swamped by gun boats but if they were to sail into the Gulf they would obviously have everything available fitted.
Cheers Rowan, the yanks have lost 1 F35 yesterday hope the POW was no where near South Carolina when conducting their Night shoot
Even if they had DS30Ms fitted, they’re far too low RPM for AA. The 20mm is usually c700-1,000rpm for AA, the DS30M just 200rpm, not intended/capable of AA apart from v slow moving helicopters. The DS30M was selected for anti small fast attack boats, but sacrificed the AA ability of what the weapons stations were formallyintended/capable of. Albeit last ditch defence. (Jets/cruise missiles coming in at 500knots+ you only have a second or two to engage within range, so you need a high Rpm to have any chance of hitting, as far as I understand it).
Should of kept the Gambo1 good rate of fire for AA and SU
Agreed. Or the 30mm Oerlikons also used before bushmasters became the RN choice. It never made sense to me that we replace a weapons system with one that can only do half the job.
I really doubt AA artillery is all that relevant tbh. 20mm Phalanx, .50 cals, and the 7.62 minis and GPMG are more than enough to deal with low slow aircraft. For everything else there’s the F-35s and the destroyers. A couple extra DP guns won’t make a difference to an anti-ship missile.
Thanks Marmite, but the Gambo1s we used on the Invincible were primarily used for surface action akin too boats (Boghammers) far cheaper than using the Goalkeepers which was for AA and antiship missiles, thats why I posted about the POW
What about dealing with terrorists in FACs and unmanned suicide attack boats?
Maybe they are practicing for punishing those found responsible for the faulty prop shafts ?
Or Planning a covert raid on the Treasury to get some money for a bigger gun ?
But to me it just shouts one word “pathetic” and should never have been advertised.
At least the Invincible had 20mm Gambo1 fitted as well as the 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS can’t have ratings putting their backs out lifting a box of 20mm Rds
Huge cost for a machine gun tripod! £4bn, what a waste of money!!
Aye, “goonery” as they say in Sunderland.
Or in the sickbay queue “I’m the Gunnerhere” well it worked in the Naafi queue!!!!!!!!! I get my coat
😄
Looks like using a 7 alpha spider web sight lol
Cool… I believe the Mongolian Navy are selling off their old Pom-Pom guns. Huge upgrade from the toys on display.
Hey George not sure if there’s been some technical issues but it seems a comment I made here is missing.
Don’t think I said anything bad, just asked if the carrier’s defences were sufficient (so a pretty typical UKDJ comment.)
Keeping up the correct level of defence, is not the same as world domination.
The fire power!!! if they got that close to use a 50 cal it’s too late. A aircraft carrier without planes instead of one fully equipped with cats and traps we’ve got two done on the cheap. No anti aircraft missile system to talk about. F35s that seem to be crashing a lot with malfunctions. Quality like everything this country does. For a country that developed the first aircraft carrier, the first tank, the first successful vertical take off and landing aircraft. All we can develop now is ridicule and useless governments.
The QE class vessels are multirole. They are not always in the aircraft carrier role.
Wrong, they tried to make a statement with money we could not afford, multi-role did not have to be so big and expensive, it’s was two aircraft both with upto 40 aircraft now its two big white elephants that we cant afford to equippe can’t afford to protect and haven’t got the manpower, let’s think what we can do let’s equippe with drones. Rubbish that was never the intention we are a small country with a small military trying to look big and powerful which we are no longer. Instead of doing one fully equipped carrier we got two part equipped. A complete waste of taxpayers money.
What did I say that is wrong? The carriers are multi-role – they can be:
1. aircraft carriers;
2.HADR response vessels;
3.C2 node/asset;
4.amphibious enablers, carrying 250 troops and commando helicopters.
Studies conclusively proved that the required sortie rate could only be achieved by a larger carrier than the Invincible class carriers. They had to be ‘that big’ or they would have been ineffective.
Cost. At the time of project approval the budget was £4.085 billion for two ships. A political decision was made in December 2008 to slow production, which added £1.56 billion to the cost. By November 2013 the contract was renegotiated due to political interference and the budget was finalised at £6.2 billion for two ships and the programme costs. This amounts to about a quarter of the cost of a US carrier, (which admittedly is more capable). £6.2bn amounts to less than 1 weeks expenditure on ‘Social Protection’
https://www.statista.com/statistics/298524/government-spending-in-the-uk/
or one sixth of what HMG spent on the Covid-19 Track and Trace app. over its 2 year life.
We can’t afford to equip? What do you mean? I assume you mean that we have not yet acquired a full complement of F-35B fighters. The carrier programme is a UK national programme. The F-35 programme is an international programme led by the US Government and Lockheed Martin; unsurprisingly these 2 different programmes originating in 2 different countries are not in perfect sync and our full complement of F-35s have yet to be built and delivered. Surely you must know this? There is no evidence that we cannot afford sufficient aircraft – they have not all been built yet. We have 30 of the 48 ordered so far and Tranche 1 remains on track to deliver total of 48 F35Bs by 2025,
Tranche 1 remains on track to deliver 48 F35Bs by 2025,
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/12/uk-industry-officials-raise-eyebrows-over-royal-air-force-f-35-e-7-and-a400m-programs/
A further 27 will be delivered by 2033, thus a total of 75 – there may well be further tranches up to a maximum of 138 aircraft.
We can’t afford to protect? What do you mean? Do you mean that we have insufficient escorts? It has always been more likely that one carrier would be deployed at a given time rather than both – not unusual – you do not expect all of a class to be at sea at the same time. You think we do not have enough escorts for a single CSG? I have checked and found that all six T45s are functional and none are in refit – and at least 9 T23 frigates are functional and not in refit. So we have 15 DD/FF, some of which are on tasks – that leaves sufficient for use as escorts in a CSG. Even if there were very few RN DD/FF available then we would use US or Commonwealth DD/FF to make up the numbers.
Haven’t got the manpower? What? To man one carrier? To man two carriers? To send a CSG to sea? Please advise.
The UK (and before it GB and before it then simply England) has always been a global power. We are an island nation with a maritime outlook. We have always had a capable bluewater navy although it is smaller than it should be. We are not a small and insignificant country. Our carriers are not white elephants – they get used – and they will be used even more in the future. They are something to be proud of. They were affordable, have at least 4 different roles, are of advanced design and require a much smaller crew than US carriers – they carry 5th gen fighters, and can carry all types of helicopters (from the army, navy and RAF) up to Chinook and commando soldiers.
Month by month we are getting more F-35s. We have the best carriers in Europe, second-best in NATO. By the way, many other non-US countries have helo/aircraft carriers – do they all have delusions of grandeur?
DC,
Don’t get hung up about 40 aircraft per carrier. The number is a movable feast:
‘The two ships of the Queen Elizabeth class are each expected to be capable of carrying over forty aircraft, with a normal maximum load of thirty-six F-35s and four helicopters, but with a theoretical surge capacity of up to 72 aircraft. The 2010 SDSR anticipated the routine peacetime deployment of twelve F-35Bs, but a typical warload will be 24 F-35Bs and some helicopters’.
Source: MoD, FT and Aviation Week, repeated in Wikipedia.
I find the comments here fascinating.
If the Carriers were fitted with CAMM, 4 CIWS, and these assorted guns, I guess there would be no comments at all?
As it is, they have these weapons, they’re good to have vs suicide boats and such, and they’re being used.
The fact that a carrier is the best defended airfield the armed forces have, with CIWS, CAAM, Sea Viper, F35s, AMRAAM, ASRAAM, and various EW things best not discussed and ships guns all around it on the escorts if the shit hit the fan, plus any allied NATO ships adding to the screen, seems lost.
It’s just moaning for the sake of it. This posts sums it up
“Huge cost for a machine gun tripod! £4bn, what a waste of money!!”
I shake my head…..