British weapon supply flights, the first taking off before the invasion started, continue day and night to supply Ukraine with weapons with which to defend itself against invading Russian forces.
The supply flights started before the invasion and have not stopped since. However, they now land in Poland near the Ukrainian border.
The British military continues day and night to supply #Ukraine with weapons with which to defend itself against invading Russian forces. The supply flights started before the invasion and have not stopped since, however, they now land in Poland near the Ukrainian border. pic.twitter.com/aJ7QYgkJMg
— George Allison (@geoallison) February 20, 2023
UK military assistance to Ukraine
To date, the United Kingdom has committed £2.3 billion in military assistance to Ukraine, with £250 million of this amount earmarked for the International Fund for Ukraine. The Government has indicated its intention to surpass this financial commitment in the upcoming 2023/24 fiscal year and is expected to provide further details in the forthcoming Spring Statement.
As the second-largest contributor of military assistance, the UK has provided lethal weaponry such as anti-tank missiles, artillery, air defence systems, armoured fighting vehicles, and anti-structure munitions, including three M270 long-range multiple launch rocket systems. In January 2023, the UK announced a substantial increase in combat support, with the provision of 14 Challenger II main battle tanks.
Moreover, the UK has contributed over 200,000 units of non-lethal aid, including body armour, helmets, night vision equipment, medical supplies, and winter clothing. In November 2022, the Ministry of Defense confirmed the delivery of the first of three retired Sea King search and rescue helicopters to Ukraine.
You can read about the specifics of UK military aid to Ukraine here.
Operation Interflex, the UK’s long-term training program for the Ukrainian armed forces, has the potential to train up to 10,000 new and existing Ukrainian soldiers every 120 days. The program includes the participation of the Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania, and New Zealand, with Australia joining in January 2023. The UK has expanded the program to include Ukrainian fast jet pilots and marines, as confirmed in February 2023.
Combined with economic and humanitarian aid, the UK has committed a total of £3.8 billion to Ukraine since February 2022. It is worth noting that the United States is the largest provider of military assistance to Ukraine, having provided $29.3 billion since February 2022.
Longstanding support
In response to Russia’s annexation of Crimea and the destabilization of eastern Ukraine, the UK has been providing military assistance to Ukraine since October 2014. The initial support included a package of non-lethal military equipment, and in 2015, the UK launched Operation Orbital, which focused on non-lethal training and capacity building for the Ukrainian armed forces.
Through several advisory and short-term training teams, Operation Orbital has been the primary means of providing training and assistance to Ukrainian forces. Additionally, the UK launched an initiative to improve Ukraine’s naval capacity and provide training for its naval forces.
Given the two Ukrainian units training with Challies, send 30 tanks to augment the two UAF airborne units.
No. Let the laggards (certain European countries) do some heavy lifting for a change. The UK needs to sort its own defence out first.
Supplying Ukraine is our defence.
Yup, otherwise our boys and girls would get involved if it spilled over so it is vital to contain it.
It is the outer shell of our defence, I would say.
Totally agree…..
Exactly!
And the UK has done a wonderful job at it. But it cannot continue to bear a disproportionate share. There are other countries who in Europe who have not done enough – and should be called out for it. I won’t give away too much – but one of them uses Leclerc mbt’s…..
Most succinct phrasing I’ve seen yet 👍🏻
ABSOLUTELY!!
If only it was that simple.
The point is, the UAF airborne forces normally have a Sqd of tanks in 1 Regt. We can equip one Regt, but, as things stand, not two.
It would make sense to equip the two self contained units.
The Chally’s were given to nudge Germany and others in Europe to give mbt’s. Not to equip x number of Ukrainian brgades. It was a political statement tbh.
And we hoth know that.
However, there are two UAF Brigades yraining in the UK, so equip both of them.
Leopards will hopefully be available to fill that role.
I think a total of 30 are are on the cards.
In reality we need to send upwards of 70, 50 to equip their equivalent of an Armoured regiment and 20 reserves.
An Armoured formation with 50 Chally 2’s would be exceptionally difficult to stop, add more Leopard 2 equipped formations of a similar size and the Russians would have a major headache stopping them.
There are 400 Challenger I tanks in Jordan
They may have been a political statement but the uk is giving some and training crews so might as well do it properly. The uk can manage with -50 tanks at least. If they can’t sort out more challenger 2 if needed for the British army it’s time to move onto a new built tank or if there is no appetite for that a foreign tank.
If Ukraine falls the consequences will Cost much more than some vehicles.
Other countries are watching and depending on the outcome that will help them decide what they do in the future.
‘The uk can manage with -50 tanks at least. If they can’t sort out more challenger 2 if needed for the British army it’s time to move onto a new built tank or if there is no appetite for that a foreign ….’
I doubt the British Army or HMG see it that way.
If it was up to me I would get every spare tank running and give a loan of 100 to Ukraine leaving 150 for the British army. They can return what’s left of them in a couple of years.
They need them. The British army probably doesn’t need more than the 2 strike groups worth for 2 years.
It might even be quicker than that.
‘If it was up to me…….’ Tbh if it was up to me I’d be giving the big 4 EU nations a kick up the a***e and getting THEM to start handing over buckets of THEIR tanks to Ukraine. Understand none of them care if the UK forces are beggared helping Ukraine. Just as they never cared about the great sacrifices the UK went thro in two world wars to save Europe. Neither France (never paid its ww1 debts to UK – still on BOE’s books – but UK had to fork for brexit) and Germany which paid only a… Read more »
What is the issue of just building more challenger 2’s with the challenger 3 upgrades as standard. Are the jigs gone? Is it too difficult to restart that? What do we need to do to get a production line running. Do we really bread a brand new design or will C3 do?
Bread -> need! 🤬 autocorrect
In the myriad of information put out about the state of CR2 stocks etc,i read that the Jigs miraculously still exist ,only the Hull ones would be needed anyway.
It’s also worth noting that there are 302 CR2 definitely in existence… (288 minus the 14 going to Ukraine) perhaps there are some hulls of the remaining ’80’ left as well…they were apparently being scrapped but someone from the Army did say they’d managed to stop the process….how far along is a good question.
Interesting. I was always amazed as a former MoD Equipment Support Manager to hear that 80 tanks that had not been formally declared ‘Obsolete’ had been scrapped.
[I am assuming people are using the term ‘scrapped’ correctly ie that usable parts are removed and the main remaining hull and turret structures have been smelted.]
From my information the 80 were literally cut up, no amount of work could bring them back to any usable condition.
Really? I am amazed – I would have thought they would have been scrapped when the Newcastle and Leeds tank factories closed.
From what I have read, Pearson Engineering reside in one of the old Tank factory buildings, can’t remember if it’s Newcastle or Leeds, but the Jigs are still there.
Incredible – but we don’t want to build more CR2s for any reason. If we want more CR3s we convert more of the CR2s that we already have.
CR2 production ended in 2002. The tank factory no longer exists. I would think the jigs were scrapped 20 years ago – why keep them? I could list what it would take to start a CR2 production line from scratch, but readers will be bored with the length of my post, suffice to say it would take uge capital investement which could only be justified by a build of several hundred. No-one inGovernment or Treasury would support this. Why build more CR2s – we have 227 in-service (less the 14 going to UA) and there should be about 80 out-of-service.… Read more »
Yes all the jigs are gone. And the people as well. Possibly we could buy the chal 1 hulls from Oman. I’m not sure if that feasible though
You must have heard that our next tank is CR3! Contract was signed in 2021, we are though PDR and CDR and work is well underway to start to build some prototypes.
CR3 is not a new tank. It is an upgrade of existing CR2 platforms.
I said it was our next tank, not a new tank.
With that kind of attitude it will take even longer for Ukraine to win and cause even more death and suffering.
And Ukraine is the front line. They’re fighting Russia on behalf of every free country in Europe; the LEAST we can do is back them up with as much heavy and advanced weaponry as we can spare.
The British Army needs to rebuild. It needs mbt’s for its own purposes. Unlike say …France, the UK has been selfless not selfish. But there are limits to generosity. And the UK is still giving in other ways so not a black and white picture.
We have only given away 6% of our active in-service tank fleet, and to a very good cause.
Yes 6% doesn’t sound much but I think we need to wait to see if any additional Chally’s will be upgraded before giving away more.
In addition, how many L2’s and Leclerc’s have been given (L2 much less than 6% of those available I’d imagine and as for Leclerc’s – absolutely zero – no surprise there of course!).
We had 227 in-service CR2s so that is down to 213 following gifting 14 tks to UA. We are currently upgrading 148 to CR3.
I wonder if we will increase the number of CR3s – the obvious thing to do is to retain the third T56 regiment, but that would be a big decision for Sunak/Hunt.
We need MBTs, but only as a pre-emptive precaution.
There is no foreseeable likely situation that we will need them anytime soon. Ukraine need them now. We are probably one of the countries that needs MBTs right now the least in the world as we are an island nation surrounded by allies.
And just to be clear, I do think we need a tank force. But we absolutely can afford to temporarily significantly reduce it in order to help Ukraine (and ourselves).
Every bit of equipment we send is in our own defence..if Russia defeats Ukraine the next nations he will be looking at are part of NATO and at that point it will not just be equipment being sent and towns in Ukraine suffering missile attack. The reality is we are so close to the edge a step back is potentially going to lead to general war in Europe. A general war that Russia cannot in any conceivable way win if NATO fights… Putin will bank on NATO suffering political failure, which it won’t, Putin will loss everything apart from his… Read more »
I don’t see Putin making an attack on NATO. Thr Russian forces would be obliterated in short order…as would Putin’s career. As for Ukraine I hope it does prevail but there are limits on what HMG can/will provide. It’s the major EU countries that are underperforming not the UK…..
To be honest, it’s not going to be a blatant attack..after all the Russian invasion of Ukraine has actually been going on for 8 years.. But if he wins in Ukraine he will need a new war..so I would suspect he would us agitators in Russian communities in the Baltic states to attempt destabilising these NATO nations…he would gamble that if it’s not a blatant attack and their is deniability that NATO would suffer political turmoil….then if one of those states got desperate and started a crack down on the ethnic Russian population you have yourself a civil war …not… Read more »
Unfortunately that doesn’t win wars.
As a percentage of GDP we spent the most for Afghanistan, one decision by the US president and it’s all gone.
The world isn’t fair but by doing what you suggest the only people we hurt are the Ukrainians and ourselves.
Like you say …the world isn’t fair.
It’s clear that that UK MOD and military top brass are now worried that about as much in the way of modern front line equipment and munitions has been sent or committed to the Ukraine as is possible without dangerously reducing our own national security and capabilities – including the provision of credible and well equipped and armed battle groups to Eastern Europe. The war is swallowing up years worth of UK arms production in as many weeks. When exactly the MOD is likely to receive greatly increased deliveries of newly manufactured equipment, missiles and munitions is as clear as… Read more »
Exactly my point. We can all be proud of what the UK has done. But frankly we should be putting a spotlight on the shameful inaction of certain EU countries. France being in that group (i notice its angling for more EU money again to bail its energy industry – it has lots of form on both military and non’- mil sponging) and also Italy and Spain who are well down the Ukraine support list.
Well said. Our needs must come first. According to senior NATO officials describing the arms manufacturing facilities in Europe. There a lead time of two and a half years for a simple request for 155mm artillery rounds to be supplied by the manufacturers. Apparently the low peacetime usage has dictated that there is no emergency wartime surge capacity built into the system. Not that the British Army has adequate numbers of 155mm artillery pieces or trained gunners left to fire them! Russia on the other hand has a larger production capacity for artillery shells. It is also being resupplied by… Read more »
2 and a half years for 155 shells? The uk is making them now along with most of Europe. The European ammunition suppliers can make more than the USA can. Granted nato needs to up production and most indicators I’ve seen suggested it was doing this. Things like missiles take a while due to getting all the bits together from multiple manufacturers. Pretty much most of Europe’s forces were prepared for defence of Europe and as the only country that could of attacked was Russia the weapons should be sent to that fight. Restocks ordered for what ever the next… Read more »
Those words were straight from NATO. I’ll dig out the video speech by NATO Sec Gen. It shocked me because I thought we had “surge capacity.”
Ukraine IS the first line of defence.
They each have a tank coy of 10 tanks, therefore need 20 tanks – plus Attrition Reserve, so say 25. 14 are coming so they need another 11.
On that Sir, I defer to you.
I believe each airborne brigade currently has a squadron of 10 T80. Only a small uplift would meet the 20 needed, wonder why it wasn’t done.
I have a feeling it’s to do with maintenance and logistics with the Ukrainians making the choice that it was easier to reduce the squadrons size to two troops of three tanks or three troops of two tanks to easy the burden on maintenance and logistics thereby getting the units in the field asap.
That 2.3 billion figure has been around 6 months is that still accurate? Because I’m sure many other things have been delivered and promised in that time.
I guess it easier to fly some items there rather than by road transport?
Maybe it’s stuff that could be considered dangerous go by air as road transport on ferries, going through multiple countries full of missiles and explosives is a headache.
How Come the Ukraine’s are not using there own Heavy Lift ????? maybe they should be doing some of the loads.
Maybe because their transports are busy inside Ukraine moving stuff around the country?… there’s a war on you know 🤦🏻♂️
You are aware they are all parked up in Germany. there is a war on, they are not included. as have no defence suite
That is incorrect in many ways.
Antonov, the aircraft manufacturer and services company, has moved its five remaining AN-124 aircraft to Leipzig, Germany. They are not parked-up, but undertaking flights for both the Ukrainian government and NATO.
The Ukrainian Air Force’s aircraft are still operating in theatre, with of their 4 transports having been lost to Russian fire (losses correct as of Nov ‘22).
The facts are somewhat different to your sweeping statement.
Ukraines op-sec has been very impressive so far during this conflict they’ve had many years to prepare for the eventuality for it, we don’t know the actual losses they have sustained ATM. Yesterday’s figures put it around 100,000 so far though it’s hard to tell for all we know the Ukrainian heavy lift has all been completely destroyed in the initial invasion, large aircraft are very hard to move around and disperse due to their size compared to fighters.
100,000 casualties (dead, wounded and missing) or 100,000 killed? Either way it is a terrible figure.
Undisclosed at this point until I’d imagine the conflict is finished, but really puts the russian losses into comparison when people make light jokes about it doesn’t it.
Thanks. I personally never make light jokes about any casualty figures whether our own or the enemy’s.
More a dig at media and Twitter types, I’d wager/hope a large part of the regular russian army personnel don’t want to be there at all- especially witnessing all the horrific crimes committed by wagner. Imagine if we had lost 100K that’s the entire British army regular/reserve totally destroyed in a year quite shocking actually and we know the problems in recruitment-time it takes that’s us lost the war.
Of course we wouldn’t be fighting Russia (or any peer/near-peer threat) on our own. But, yes, we could not cope with a very high casualty rate. If we deployed our one and only armoured division, that probably amounts to 20,000 troops.
[First Battle of the Somme in 1916, we had 57,470 British casualties, of which 19,240 men had been killed in action].
One year of high intensity warfare across a nation of 45million with two armies of around 200,000 each. Both Russia and Ukrainian armies are going to have suffered catastrophic levels of casualties..when you add in the general bombardment and fighting over towns and cities as well as loss of basic infrastructure like sanitation, power, healthcare over a hard winter. The number of dead at Putins door will be staggering…if anyone deserves a noose it’s that man.
Millions displaced and interned in Russia, the numbers will be shocking after all is done. The reality is Putin needs to be stopped here in Ukraine otherwise other nations will be at the mercy of his imperial desires.
They have been using the commercial Antonov fleet to fly arms and munitions into Poland, however theyve gradually dwindled as they already didnt have enough working engines to equip the entire fleet of 10 aircraft before the war and the war has obviously curtailed parts production even further and they have been unable to return to the Antonov facility in Kyiv where heavy overhauls are done which at one point was occupied by the Russians and their aviation factories have obviously been high profile air strike targets with the factory in the south that makes aircraft engines bombed on the… Read more »
maybe that’s something that someone need to donate. A bit of medium lift.
Would be interesting to know the scale of NATO’s transport flight operation for Ukraine. Possibly biggest continuous air-lift since the Berlin blockade – or was there bigger during Vietnam? 🤔
Probably find out after the war. Lots of sneaky stuff going on
Probably why the extra A400M are still on the RAF shopping list?
Afghanistan has to be up there for airlift – Bastion was the 5th(?) busiest ‘British’ Airport.
True, but quite a few flights were UAVs and helos.
Also interesting would be to know how many hours the RAF are putting on their planes versus how many per annum they had budgeted for when the planes were delivered. Bearing in mind that we only have 8C17’s and no prospect of getting more, and the A400’s still being delivered. I reckon there could be a big bill for maintenance and refurbishing when this is all over. Maybe buy some more C130’s anyone?
The RAF Transport fleet has always been worked very hard,i think its a given that Airframe hours will be spread accross all Aircraft types,don’t forget they can use Voyager as well as C17,A400 and C130.
Which is another reason why getting rid of a quarter of them with the Hercs going is the usual madness. The Atlas fleet will have to take up the tasks.
The 6 extra suggested by CAS are needed.
The MOD should have been more prudent in getting 2 more C17’s before the production line closed,but obviously more A400 ( and even C130 if there is a major change in policy) can be increased so it’s not all bad news.
There seems to be a lack of logistics. This I believe has come as a shock to the West. Apparently a 105mm howitzer in Ukraine is using more ammo in 1 month than the US produces for a whole year!!! This just proves how reduced is the capacity fir the West to produce even basic things like artillery shells. We have been here before. In WW1 there was a shell shortage such that a massive increase in shell production was required. Even the Russians are running out of mussikes etc. If there has been one lesson from the Ukraine war… Read more »
Or an aggressive (re hostile) China for that matter.
Indeed the West can no longer be complacent regarding war materiel. After all if the West runs out of military stock then all they have is nuclear weapons. The more conventional war materiel there is the longer it will last so as not to reach stock depletion to the point that only nuclear weapons are left. NATO needs to rapidly increase it’s military to combat Russia. The fear that NATO has had of Russian tanks can largely be discounted as the Russian tanks have been pretty useless. What is needed is mass NATO tank formations. To combat all the dud… Read more »
There’s a huge opportunity UK industry to get pumping again with all this! Hope they seize what opportunities they can and be backed by the government and MOD and industry and technology bodies. Probably already doing a lot of it!
Hope the 🇬🇧 forces will benefit big time from all this increased military-economic activity and give the country and economy a good lift up. Hope the same for Europe, US, Australia, NZ, other Allies and free world countries. Got to stand up to those countries who’d want to take our freedoms away as they currently do to their own people.
Military/industrial complexes have long been disparage by the peaceniks. It was the US arsenal that greatly assisted the heroic Soviet people to defeat Germany. Now we need that same arsenal to arm NATO to combat the Russian Genocidal Fascists. This rearmimg of NATO is vital. I read on Quora that Germany had at one time 7000 tanks. They DONT even have half that now. It needs that number again and then some. Will Germany be up for bolstering an expanded NATO!? The big problem is convincing national electorates that defence spending needs to increase. For a start ALL NATO countries… Read more »
Paul, I don’t think the Quora figure of formerly 7,000 tanks in the Bundesweher can be right – I thought it was once a figure a bit over 3,000.
Wikipedia reports the following:
“As of May 2022, the German Army has a total of 312 Leopard 2s with 99 of them being repaired by the armaments industry. Of these Leopard 2s, 53 are the 2A7V version and 19 the A5 version, although the A5 tanks are only used by the German Army to represent enemy tanks in the army’s combat training center and have been retired from combat,”
According to the article in Der Spiegel in January that precipitated the resignation of the Defence Minister, the Germans had 5,000 tanks of all types in 1989.
Number now is 300, but only 130 are actually operational.
If it was 1989 was that the west German supply or were they talking about the total stock post unification including all the East German T numbers.
Purely West Germany’s I believe.
That’s interesting we forget how many tanks everyone had stashed and ready for the Soviet invasion. Even we had 1200MBTs hanging around in 1990.
To be fair if there was a Russian NATO war it would not be a long one at all. All Russia really has against NATO is: 1) the hope of political disunity ( breaking NATO) 2) the nuclear threat. If Russian and NATO went to war, the Russian airforce and Navy would be removed quickly and the Russian army cannot overcome one of the poorest nations in Europe how would it do against NATO divisions with complete dominance of the air. Not saying we should be complacent, we always need to ensure our forces are up to being deployed, but… Read more »
As for (2) the nuclear threat, Russia had a test of a Satan II ICBM to coincide with Putin’s big state of the nation speech. It was a failure 😆
Though NATO seems to have that twig shoved right up Putin’s ass at the moment 😏
With the utter morons we have in Government (and opposition) it’s not bloody likely.
Has anyone reminded Rishi recently that defence is the first duty of Government! It is time to rearm after decades of cuts to manpower and platforms.
I’m sure if you actually asked our policy classes they would say the first duty of a government was to get re-elected.
👍
Russia is a corrupt mafia state which deserves to be consigned to history. Hopefully replaced by a more friendly western orientated state. I can dream i suppose. In meantime the West has to think about the real issue…China. That is formidable…and we need to be ready to confront it in all of it’s (unpleasant) aspects both economically and militarily.
China is also untested. Every power thinks it can win a major war…. Until it is in a war. Logistics is the Achilles heel for modern armies and the West are the best at it. It’s how Russia’s flopped attempt of taking Kyiv the “Western way” failed miserably. They lack logistics and in modern warfare it is more crucial than numbers, superiority etc.
I think our Gvernment can only handle one external threat at a time – and then not very well – or we would have increased defence expenditure and reversed army cuts in the last year.
Or wouldn’t have made them in the first place.
I’m hoping for a collapse into its constituent republics. Individually they won’t be able to maintain the strategic nuclear forces, so in time their threat to the West would disintegrate.
Sure, a Russian civil war would be great for international security. Especially with the nukes scattered around constituent republics. I’m sure when the victor reforms Russia from Moscow or St. Petersburg, it will look on the West as a staunch friend and ally for making them endure that again. 🙄
I didn’t suggest a civil war. I suggested an unravelling, much as the USSR did in 1991.
But I should have guessed someone would step forward to take up the mantle of Corporal Jones 🤦🏻♂️
Or you just another Putin-bot?
t’was a mere 9 months or so ago people everywhere were trumpeting the demise of the tank as a strategic weapon due to the impact NLAW etc was having on Russian tanks- and yet now you are suggesting vaste swathes of them are needed.
Now I never agreed the tank was history but obv. a differnt approach to its use was needed however I would be intereted as to why you feel they are once again the solution, as that seems somewhat premature.
The MBT is still a very effective method of delivering combat power. It is after all very mobile artillery and the Western tanks are relatively resistant to NLAW etc. In open country ranks are still very effective which is what the Ukraine js. Despite effective anti-tank weapons the MBT is still am effective weapon. Thousands of them to combat the Russian ones would be a real deterrent. Due to very effective anti-aircraft systems the supposed mighty RAF has largely been emasculated. For NATO countries tanks are still an effective weapon. This is how Germany succeeded so well in WW2. Tanks… Read more »
Some nations have good tanks and handle them well – we have not lost a tank to enemy fire since the Korean War.
Not done so well though with ‘friendly fire’! But I contend that Western MBT as deployed in Europe have a significant advantage over the current Russian tanks. The only slight oroblem is there are sufficient Western MBT. Not sure if the Russian quantity can beat our star smaller quality. Most of the Russian quantity seems fit for a museum. That is not to denigrate their undoubted capabilities. So it is for NATO to provision the same quantity but of quality tanks. Whether there is the political will to achieve this in I have no idea Western electorates are reluctant for… Read more »
We have lost one CR2 tank to friendly fire – regrettable but not a high number. Quality of Russian tanks is low but they are also handling them very badly. If they deployed them tactically soundly within combined arms groups it might be a different story. With our western tanks being of higher quality and well handled we don’t need as many as Russia – we ((NATO) could not afford a fleet matching Russias in size. Interesting comment about the return of BAOR – our last major contingent only returned to the UK a couple of years ago. Perhaps Poland… Read more »
its interesting that I don’t think the west really absorbed how much better it’s armoured forces were compared tosoviet based forces…the absolute appalling effectiveness of T class tanks in the Iraq wars were sort of explained away with bad use and possibly export models..when it turns out western tanks and tactics are just so much better and soviet based tanks really are very bad. I suppose all that time facing the massed soviet armies and considering the fact that even the mighty BAOR was consider a sacrifice unit….how could we then think the soviet armies were driving around in death… Read more »
Not just the poor quality of T-series tanks. The Russians tactically handled them badly, and both engineering and logistics were second rate.
I found it bizarre that people contemplated the end of the tank due to NLAW – there have been anti-tank weapons since 1916, starting with anti-tank rifles, then bazookas from the early 1940s and ATGW since the late 50s. Throughout this long period the tank evolved and got better armour and tank troops used smarter tactics (some of them anyway). If the best armed, best protected, most mobile, direct fire weapons platform is obsolete due to ‘vulnerability’ then so is everything else that is less well protected – and we are back to the foot soldier alone (except that he… Read more »
I suppose if you look at how badly soviet designed MBTs have performed as well as soviet type tactics you could fall into that trap..but it sort of ignores how effective western combined arms units have been and how utterly effective challenger is in its role.
I hope the fact that Chally2 has not been modernised in 25 years will not count against it.
But I suppose from the point of view of protection the challenger 2 was better protected than other western MBTs 25 years ago…so from an armour point of view it’s probably not that far of point, If a bit behind..weight is still a good indicator of protection and challenger2 is I believe still the heaviest western tank even after other MBTs armour upgrades. I’m. Assuming they will be sent to Ukraine with either Dorchester 2F or Dorchester2I protection package.. The L30A1 with charm3 which I believe still have an extra 75m/sec muzzle velocity over US Abrahams M8229A1 round (1575m/sec vs… Read more »
I agree with all of that, except for the line that ‘challenger2 was designed to stand and kill as many soviet tanks as it could before getting knocked out’ We haven’t lost a tank to enemy fire since the Korean War, so I don’t think we were pondering on losing too many! Protection will still be ‘up there’. Surprising how many people write down Chally2’s cannon without putting numbers out there – I just think they have a thing against rifled guns – I am sure it would still rip apart a T-series tank. I don’t consider a speed of… Read more »
I do believe they actually did some proper analysis around crew casualties and stuff and realised that things like BV and toilet are actually quite important crew survival aids.
Yes, certainly not luxuries. A study by The War Office of WW2 casualties revealed a lot of casualties caused by troops brewing up on an open fire just by their tank and being engaged by enemy fire . Hence the BV was quickly designed and has been a feature of British tanks since the late 1940s. Also extended to APCs at some time – FV430s have a BV and of course Warriors do.
Toilet for tank crews – same sort of logic.
Other nations have been very slow to copy our practice.
Good points. Worrying that recourse to nuclear weapons could occur because of shortage of conventional munitions – not sure many had thought of that.
If the Russians learn to use their tanks tactically in combined arms units and formations they would pose quite a threat still, even with a quality deficit.
The question is can you really ever have a conscript based army do effective combined arms…I suppose you have Israel and Finland..but they are more nations with a total mobilisation policy than a tradition conscript army.
An interesting point. The Russian Battalion Tactical Group (BTG) is of course a combined arms unit. Perhaps they are poorly trained and led.
As far as I’m aware Russia has still not accepted a professional NCO as leader model…they have now got contracted NCOs but they are focused on being developed as technical experts not leaders..the role of the western NCO is still undertake by junior officers who as far as I’m aware have to do the NCO leadership role and subaltern leadership role….also they have massive confusion around what a soldier is..( they want a conscript army for mass but recognised you need a profession military in a modern conflict…so ended up with a bizarre hybrid) 1) one year conscription solders… 2)… Read more »
I was thinking more of the officer leadership in a BTG. Your observation is a good one. The Russian OR rank structure puzzles me – 10 grades, of which the first 4 are Pte ranks, no LCpl or Cpl, then 4 Sgt ranks and the normal 2 WO ranks. Totally mad.
https://www.militaryfactory.com/ranks/russia/russian-army-ranks.php
The hazing is particularly cruel. Much else wrong with the Russian Army.
I understand hazing became endemic with new conscripts being treated like animals. The officers simply left the bases at night and with no professional NCO they turned into hell holes. it seems it’s junior officer core is very focused on managing the basic training and discipline of each new wave of conscripts or 2 year contact solders and does not have a lot of time to develop skill sets that western officers are trained in. If the junior officers are spending time doing basic troop training and discipline and not learning the next stages in their own craft no wonder… Read more »
I think if we went to war there would be a shell shortage but worse than WW1 – we don’t seem to have any shell producing factories at all!
Graham, BAe make artillery ammunition, 40mm CT ammunition, small arms ammunition etc. etc and other types at sites in Cheshire, Monmouthshire, all over the UK.
Any idea if production has been increased to a worthwhile level yet?
Thanks Ian. Good info. I just knew of the BAE (was ROF) Radway Green facility for SAA.
I would imaging shell manufacture could be upscale quickly the issue would be modern fusing as that’s a complicated bit.
You can’t fight a war without an industrial capacity somewhere along the way. And we have allowed our industrial base to wither away – a big mistake. The Conservative cuts to national defence are starting to add up. (The Argentinians invaded the Falklands because they believed that after Conservative defence cuts back then we couldn’t defend the islands… so nothing new with the Conservatives thinking!) If Putin thinks we are weak he will take advantage.
Infact every major war had been won by manufacturing capacity. What people forget is that t armies and navy’s fight and win battles and campaigns but nations fight wars and that is a mixture of: 1) sovereign wealth 2) industrial capacity 3) willingness to fight. you need all three to win unless there is a specific other element at play such as the tyranny of distance. WW2 was in the end a forgone conclusion do to allied industrial capacity japan, Germany and Italy could not out compete the British empire, the U.S. and Russian…but and other nations France and other… Read more »
We could easily face a co-ordinated invasion by Russia(Baltics, Finland/Northern Norway, Moldova, China on Taiwan, N Korea on S Korea, plus maybe others. We’d be so stretched that millions would suffer before we got anywhere near dealing with the threat. Too many cuts for too long & short sighted muppets ruling us.
Bit OT, but there’s supposedly a major Russian offensive looming. The anniversary of the invasion passed quietly rather than being commemorated with a rain of more Russian missiles & China is offering to broker a deal. Hopefully genuine, but given both Russia & China’s mendacity, could they be luring us into false hopes before hitting Ukraine hard with a new offensive?
If China engages in such games we really need to up our game & show resolve.
Video from a two man trench in the ukraine (around Bahkmut i think) Both Ukrainians survived with the bloke shooting making a video later
Anything for defence? “The UK government recorded a surprise surplus in its finances in January despite “substantial spending” to help households with energy bills and one-off payments to the EU. The government spent less than it received in tax during the month, resulting in a surplus of £5.4bn. Economists had forecast borrowing of £7.8bn, but record self-assessed income tax receipts boosted the UK’s coffers. The figures come as the government is set to deliver its Budget next month. They show that public borrowing in the financial year to date is £30.6bn less than predicted by the Office for Budget Responsibility… Read more »
An interesting day ahead. “Biden and Poland’s president to discuss increasing NATO’s presence Some more information on Joe Biden’s meeting with his Polish counterpart today has been revealed… As we told you earlier, the US president arrived in Warsaw last night after an unexpected trip to Ukraine yesterday. He is due to meet leaders from NATO’s eastern flank to discuss their ongoing support for the war-torn country later. Now, an aide to Poland’s President Andrzej Duda has said one topic of discussion between the two leaders will be increasing NATO’s presence in the country. “(We will discuss) the security of… Read more »
If Poland is invaded by Russia we’ll all be dead as WW3 will occur with nuclear weapons.
I DONT think even the most stupid Russian Generals would want that!?
What would be the point!?
Like Ukraine, the Poles fight hard and have the equipment and manpower to defeat them in a conventional war.
NATO is simply making a point to Putin, look no further!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52444399618_9270d44c4a_b.jpg
https://expatguideturkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/poland-1-780×470.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Polish-F-16-for-Icelandic-Air-Policing.jpg
https://www.navyrecognition.com/images/stories/news/2019/december/The_New_Polish_Navy_vessel_ORP_Slazak_ready_for_duty_925_001.jpg
The Army might get another £1bn but I doubt anything more – if that.
Really hope your estimate proves to be too conservative. 🤔🤞
Sunak will point to the extra £16.5bn for Defence over 4 years announced in Nov 2020 by the Boris Johnson government, as a reason to not give too much extra this year.
Let’s hope if the army do get any extra cash they actually use it sensibly.
I have visions of 2 land rovers with VLS launchers on the back and some happy officer saying these are worth the billion as they are force enabling, multiplier, air transportable assets.
LOL 😂
In other news.
“A British Army light mechanised brigade is to provide the framework lead of the NATO Very High Readiness Joint Task Force (Land) (VJTF(L)) in 2024, the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) has told Janes.
VJTF(L) 2024’s UK contingent is to comprise two light mechanised battalions equipped with Foxhound patrol vehicles, a light cavalry regiment with Jackal patrol vehicles, and an artillery regiment equipped with 105 mm towed Light Guns, the ministry told Janes on 17 February.”
LINK
5,000 troops by other accounts. I wonder if it is still an issue that some deem this too high a figure for our small army to bear?!
Hmm…Mad Vlad announced today the suspension of Russian participation in New START treaty…perhaps creating a favorable tailwind for both imminent AUKUS pronouncements and MoD strategy/budget review? 🤔
Cold War 3 has begun, time for politicians to realise that and start putting the UK on a war footing again with the monies to do so.
https://www.history.com/.image/ar_16:9%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cg_faces:center%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_768/MTY3Nzk0OTU2MzQ0MjM5NDg4/berlin-wall-gettyimages-527012806.jpg
Maybe. Spring budget is on 15th March. Not sure when the revised Integrated Review is coming out and any associated Defence Command Paper.
There is almost always a surplus in Jan it’s when a lot of people of have to do tax returns pay the previous years tax. The finances are still in a worse place that the Tory party would want….there is a very big cost of covid still hanging in there. But in reality our debt to GDP is pretty good at %80 of GDP when compared to a lot of liberal democracies…liberal democracies have higher debts so Japan is bonkers knocking on 230% of GDP ( Japan is effectively living on borrowed time and has been a zombie economy for… Read more »
Thank you for the detailed explanation Jonathan, after Putin’s announcement today, we need to start investing heavily in our armed forces, not least some decent protection for the UK mainland itself from potential attacks by air and sea.
Yes I think there needs to be some thought around protecting key infrastructure especially since the Russian navy pretty much decided it’s SSN force cannot compete with western ASW and has been refitting them for a bastion approach…which is essentially sit in a safe northern sea and lob missiles at key NATO infrastructure.
Who is going to attack our homeland from air or sea? Russia?
Correct, or possibly China in the future.
Personally, I’d sooner be prepared for the worst-case scenario than have to suffer the consequences.
Nigel, I’d be very interested in hearing how we intend to defend the homeland from Russian or Chinese attack or invasion – but we will probably never find out. I recall the Military Home Defence (MHD) exercises of the 1980s and being on Ex Brave Defender in 1985. This was a Parliamentary Answer on that exercise, for interest: EXERCISE “BRAVE DEFENDER” HL Deb 21 March 1985 vol 461 c756WA 756WA §The Earl of Lindsey and Abingdon asked Her Majesty’s Government:Whether they will give details of the aims and scope of Exercise “Brave Defender”.§Lord Trefgarne “Brave Defender” is a national military home defence… Read more »
Very wise, we need to wake up to our key vulnerabilities.
Exactly, and after seeing this, if true, you really do start to wonder where we are headed.
LINK
Huzzah! Stats being quoted on the forum that are actually correct.
Thanks Jonathan for setting a good example 👏🏻
(Though I would say that I suspect China’s actual debt is higher due to the huge volume of ‘off-the-book’ debt run-up by provincial government and state institutions.)
Yes you may be right…China is not likely a model of open financial governance ..no office of national statistics washing the governments laundry in public in china.
UK 80% debt to GDP? I thought it had gone to about 100% due to covid etc. If you have any info showing 80% please pass it on. I’d be well pleased if that was the case.
Including Bank of England it is 98 percent, not including Bank of England it is 87 percent as of Jan 2023
Ukraine needs artillery because Ukraine must use static lines a la WW1.
They do not have the equipment for manoeuvre warfare, because we won’t supply them and forget combined arms.
We need to step up and break this war by delivering capability that we deem too complicated for the Ukrainians; we did that to Czechoslovak and Polish pilots in the BoB… and then relented, and look what they did with it!
By all accounts the foreign fighter pilots did not shoot down as many Luftwaffe planes as they stated. Of course they still did very well but other RAF squadrons were a bit p##### off with the foreign squadron claims. As far as the Ukrainian capabilities they are the only country that has faced all out Russian assault and are surviving. Yes there is no doubt that more modern weapons will do the job against what are basically obsolete Russian ones. This war is a testing ground for NATO capability. Doubt very much any NATO soldiers are much more capable than… Read more »
I’ll take issue with the first paragraphs of your post.
When RAF pilots had been shot out of the skies due to poor formation flying Vics versus buddy buddy, who stepped up to the plate on Eagles Day, 15th September? (?)
I agree with your later paragraphs.
Yep totally agree that ineffective RAF tactics resulted in unnecessary losses. The Luftwaffe having the Spanish Civil War experience had devised especially better fighter tactics that were eventually adopted by all Fighters………….namely the ‘finger four’ formation. There is no doubt that the RAF would gave been less effective were it not fir the foreign squadrons who were by dint of where they came from invariably more experienced in combat than most RAF pilots That is not to blame the RAF they just hadn’t the experience. They got knocked about during the Battle of France. They did much better on home… Read more »
You make a really valid contribution. Thankyou. It should be remembered that the Polish and Czechoslovak pilots were not part of our Empire, indeed, we had failed the Czechs in their own defence by reneging on our commitments and allowed German forces to roll into the Czech Republic carte blanched – one might pull similarities out of the Ukraine debacle! However, the Czechs, Slovaks and Poles came to us and delivered our freedom that we would then hand them and their Countries over to Communism. Arm Ukraine now with Tranche 1 tiffies with all the gear. In short order, they’ll… Read more »
Tiffies = RAF slang for Typhoon specifically, or a more general reference to any advanced fighter? 🤔
Tonka: Tornadoes
Tiffies: Typhoons
👍
Yep totally agree with your points. Of course it WASN’T just those of the Empire that assisted Britain. Can’t ignore the Yanks that formed Eagle Squadrons in Fighter Command. Volunteers all of them that came to the aid of Britain. Indeed there was much sacrifice by foreigners who came to assist Britain in her hour of need. I for one bever realised that the ANZACs etc were all volunteers. No conscription!! All truly astounding I guess all these types saw little alternative than to join the fight to defeat the evil that was Hitler. Now we have to defeat the… Read more »
What is Ukraine lacking to enable combined arms manouevre warfare – they have tanks, artillery, mechanised infantry, communicators, attack helicopters.
I’m no military expert; far from it, but I would imagine that Ukraine lacks the numbers to adopt a broad front approach.
I have no idea how Ukrainian forces should be best deployed.
But so far for a relatively small force they aren’t doing that bad in holding back the Russian behemoth
Ukraine is a smaller country with a smaller population (and hence armed forces by manpower and platforms) than her opponent. Ukraine cannot engage in an attritional war and should avoid fighting in built up areas (especially in large towns and cities) if possible. Ukraine has done exceptionally well so far and has been sensible to adopt a broadly defensive posture combined with ambushes and localised counter attacks – and uses technology and intelligence very well. Ukraine’s ability to secure western military, monetary and morale support from the west has been invaluable, but much more is required. Her enemy is across… Read more »
Janes seems to have posted and then deleted/hidden a story over the last 24 hours saying the MoD was awarding BAE a £1.4bn contract for GCAP development (if you search on google you can find the meta data for the page). I cant find anything else on it, possibly an embargoed story?
GCAP?
Global Combat Air Programme, new umbrella name for the manned element of the UK/Italian/Japanese joint development, still likely to be called Tempest in British service.
Thanks, a comm lag has evidently developed on this side of the Pond. 🤔😳😉
Recent development in December, when it was decided to develop a common manned fighter to cover U.K./ Italian/Japanese requirements for a 6th generation fighter rather than sharing and developing common technologies.
👌👍🖖
Yes, I posted it on here the other day.
A very wise investment!
BAE Systems awarded GBP1.4 billion to lead UK GCAP future fighter effort
20 FEBRUARY 2023
“The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) has awarded BAE Systems GBP1.4 billion (USD1.7 billion) to lead the country’s Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) effort.
Announced on 15 February, the award is a continuation of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) research and development work of Team Tempest that comprises the MoD, BAE Systems, Leonardo, MBDA, and Rolls-Royce, and internationalises it under the GCAP programme recently announced with Italy and Japan.”
Yeah story appears to have been pulled, page is 404, no announcements from MoD or BAE. The only MoD press releases on the 15th are Babcock getting the Skynet maintenance contract, medics going to Turkey and the usual routine stuff like Range notices.
Let’s hope there’s a good reason for it!
Always loved this aircraft. 1946 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito B.35 – N35MK “The first example was built by hand in total secrecy with company money on the grounds of Salisbury Hall, a mansion house not far from the de Havilland production facility at Hatfield, Hertfordshire. First flown on November 25, 1940, by chief test pilot Geoffrey de Havilland Jr., the bright yellow machine was sent to Boscombe Down in Wiltshire where it was extensively tested. Initial impressions were entirely favorable; in performance trials the machine exceeded even the manufacturer’s expectations, achieving a level speed of 388 mph at 22,000 feet… Read more »
A Mosquito would be quite effective now in Ukrainian airspace.
It’s stealth for a start.
Back in the day when radar was not so effective yes, but wood has some useful advantages when it comes to stealth! I agree!
I recall that my Grandmother worked at de Havilland, Pompey and had a hand built model Mosquito made there for me in the mid-fifties. I knew it was special and indeed loved it, but was really too young for the responsibility with it ending up broken. Do still regret when reminded, even at 72, as I’m positive my Gran would have been.
Looking back, you must be very proud of your Mother, one of the many unsung heroes of WWll.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/08/03/TELEMMGLPICT000136465004_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq5yhjOBVf9UFzFqlOArF86dEnTvtJ1rwIXwf-f4RdHtI.jpeg
https://www.historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Mossie-build-960_640-1.jpg
We need to keep supplying ukraine for as long as it takes to stop putin ,that man is the problem not the russian people, they don’t want war ,rearming ourselves is a priority ,take leaf out of the chinese book “put the country first not profit “,bottom line stop putin kill the bxxxxxd
But apparently 70% of Russians believe in the genocidal war.
The West can’t kill 70% of Russians so how does the West deal with such warped perspectives on this genocidal illegal war.!?
Turn that around.
The West needs to figure out how to exterminate 70% of the Russian vermin; they are the best of people and the very worst of people; like every other kind of pollution, the world needs rid of.
I have a sort of sympathy for the idiot 70%. They have been effectively brainwashed. It is an indication of how effective the Big Brother State can be. China is an even more extreme example. NAZI Germany was in a similar position. Goebbels was correct….the bigger the lie the more it is believed. That the Ukraine is a NAZI State and has attacked Russia. Such a fantasy could result in the destruction of the world from nuclear weapons. Propaganda could result in the destruction of the world so it is hardly benign!! Somehow the West gas to get the truth… Read more »
You want to exterminate 100 million people for the crime of not agreeing with you? Ok buddy, take your meds.
Just send vodka. Free of charge. They’ll do the rest.
I wouldn’t put much faith in popularity figures coming out of Russia. Like Russian elections they’re unlikely to bare any relation to reality…
Yes there is a large stupid proportion of the population in Russia, and xenophobic and racist too. But we have those and anti-vax conspiracy nutters here too.
Russia doesn’t have a monopoly on idiots… 🤷🏻♂️
The difference is, the media has been Putin controlled there for over 20 years. That’s a huge amount of brainwashing to overcome.
I DONT believe that Western MSM or Social media has woken up to the very real threat that Russian propaganda is It is a war by other means. The West must combat this threat. I believe it is so important that the technology companies should unite to be an effective combat arm of NATO. The FSB has utilised as tools of theirs these Western technology companies. Russia has played a blinder but I DONT believe the West knows what is really going on. The general sophistication that Russia shows in manipulation beggars belief. The West must combat this pernicious propaganda… Read more »
Outside Russia it’s mainly the SVR and GRU, along with the IRA (which you could describe as the cyber-arm of Wagner), that have been spreading disinformation and discord. Unfortunately it’s the price of a free and open society that that leaves the West vulnerable to these activities. We don’t oppress/execute our malcontents the way Russia does. The West does know what is going. The big alarm bells rang after it became apparent that the IRA was attempting to influence the US presidential election against Clinton by leaking to Assange confidential information obtained by SVR hacking the DNC in Washington. After… Read more »
Climate change denial is perfectly correct. Or rather man-made climate change is ridiculous. The climate always changes. It has nothing to do with man. There is nothing that man can do to influence the climate. Man just has to adapt. Those who promote man-made climate change are promoting a false ideology and should be stopped. The whole green agenda is a false premise ad is the stupid net zero. Such ideology js causing massive economic harm. As such the green agenda must be abandoned and a return to using cheap fossil fuels is required. Of course nothing wrong in using… Read more »
See, even you’ve been fooled by the anti-science stupidity of climate-change denial pushed by Putin’s useful idiots. 🤷🏻♂️
And there you go fooled by an autistic twit dear Greta. There is no conclusive evidence of man-made climate change. Indeed the evidence js that there is no such thing as man-made climate change and there is certainly nothing man can do to influence the climate. Putin has no influence over the climate and it matters not whatever he states. I’m afraid man-made climate change is a fantasy and always will be. The only reason it may make sense to invest in green programmes is to cover for fossil fuel shortages though I DONT believe there is a fossil fuel… Read more »
Putin’s propaganda apparatus, the IRA/ GRU/ SVR, depend on reactionary types in the west to believe their lies and run with it in order to undermine belief in western science, politics, authority, etc. You’ve demonstrated like all reactionaries that you jump to conclusions. I cannot stand Greta Thunberg because; * she pontificates on a subject she has no academic or scientific credentials for * she makes excessive claims that go beyond what the science says, which undermines the climate-change case * I dislike stroppy, tantrum prone, kids. And like most reactionaries, you like to RANT. There’s is overwhelming conclusive proof… Read more »
The reality is that here is no such thing as nan-made climate change.
On that simple premise everything should be based.
If the world economy in totality stopped there would be absolutely no effect on the climate forever.
The green agenda is so much bunk.
I for one will never support the doing away with fossil fuels on a green agenda basis.
If fossil fuels are abandoned for economic/pollution reasons have no problem with that.
The reality is you reduce to accept that man-made climate change exists. Your beliefs don’t change the facts, the science, that it exists.
You trust science to provide new weapons to defeat Putin, you trust science to provide vaccines to stop pandemics, but you don’t believe science when it has evidence of man-made climate change. The technical term is cognitive dissonance.
The science does not validate man-made climate change.
The green propaganda does.
Peer reviewed items also discuss the concept of man-made climate change as a fantasy.
A fantasy it remains.
Weird because the vast majority of scientists believe the overwhelming body evidence as published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Do you think they’re all part of some great evil conspiracy? Spectre or the Illuminati perhaps?
No peer-reviewed articles in any scientific journal would ever use the word “fantasy”, so you’ve just blatantly lied about that.
Well said
Had some good comments going in this thread and then just completely fucked it with this one. What a moronic comment.
Indeed to advocate that man-made climate change is a reality is indeed moronic!
No it’s the going in on a young girl who believes passionately in a cause whether you agree or not and wishing people dead that’s the moronic part bud.
Troll.
Agreed 😕
Gosh just watched daily politics, one of the commentators ( a very left wing one) actually said that the UK providing equipment was prolonging the war and increasing the suffering of civilians and conscript soldiers and that it was possibly policy to make the war last longer to topple Putin…and that both Labour and conservative politicians were pandering to effectively populist public views. Effectively what was said was it was better for everyone, including Ukraine that there was peace at any cost and any action on a western nation that prevented that was immoral….The level of geopolitical naivety in what… Read more »
Sounds great, peace. Why didn’t anyone think of that already.
Oh yeah because to have peace both sides have to be willing to achieve it.
These idiots saying weapons increase suffering just don’t think any further of the consequences of not helping.
The millions of Ukrainians that will suffer horribly living under Russian rule.
Some folks think the way we live in the west is how everyone lives and that they all enjoy our freedoms and Values.
Yes it was bizzare.
Unfortunately the peaceninks DONT understand the very simple solution for peace
Speak softly but carry a big stick!!
Indeed and give very clear red lines that everyone knows there will be consequences to if crossed. The worst thing you can do is talk then walk when pushed as Putin will just keep pushing until he crosses line of no return for anyone.
Like when he annexed Crimea and we did nothing.
Unfortunately these Labour Communist apologists for Russia will be the UK Govt in 2024……..bloody frightening!!!
Also the idiot was talking about RUSSIAN conscript lives!!
No mention of the Ukrainian soldiers as victims of a genocidal oppressor.
Labour the threat within!!
Lucky for our democracy the Labour Party is removing these Individuals to the sidelines and returning to a more social democrat workers party and not a communist revisionist party that Corbin was trying to make it.
I’m afraid I lack your faith in a revisionist LABOUR Party Labour intend to attack property rights and tax wealth. That is Communism. 2nd homeowners of all types are selling up. They can see the Labour train coming to run them over. It makes no sense remaining assets that will be taxed till the proverbial pips squeak.. There is a mass sell off of 2nd hones of all types. 2nd properties will be sold off and the cash hidden from prying eyes like HMRC. The proverbial mattress will be a place of safety to hide cash from HMRC Labour will… Read more »
Troll
Who is this troll. CERTAINLY not me.
I am a former LL and fnow retired fireman.My opinions are as valid as others .
That doesn’t make my comments any less valid than others.
Disagreeing with the opinions I espouse doesn’t make my comments any less valid if others disagree with them.
Trolling is espousing incorrect opinions.
Mine aren’t.
Your opinions are incorrect. You have provided no evidence that a Labour government under Labour’s current leadership wouldn’t support Ukraine.
Starmer was just last week in Kyiv visiting Zelensky.
LL?
Landlord
Troll
Oh, knock it off!
Labour have are fully on board with supporting Ukraine. Any members who come the election run opposed to that will find themselves outside the party.
We don’t need to put up with get another inept Conservative government to support Ukraine and remain strong against Russian aggression.
Either you know all that and are being obtuse, or you really are stupid.
A Labour Govt would be far more inept than the Tories.
I understand that Labour do support the Ukdaine but that is only since they got rid of mad Corbyn!
I DONT believe that there is any public understanding that Labour opposes assisting the Ukraine.
I’m not surprised, the far-left (eg Piers Corbyn) and the far-right (eg David Kurten) have been pushing out this same narrative that providing assistance to Ukraine is prolonging the war and suffering.
It’s the exact same message that the Kremlin puts out and, what Yevgeny Prigozhin‘s Internet Research Agency is pushing out on social media.
I’ve found this analysis of the Leopard situation, some interesting points in it. NOT MY WORDS! Situation with the Leopard tanks is problematic on the supply of Leopard-2 tanks to Ukraine. The German leadership faced two key problems in the issue of supplying Leopard-2 tanks to Ukraine, a tank coalition and maintenance. The creation of a tank coalition is lagging far behind plan. In January, Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced the “rapid” formation of two tank battalions equipped with Leopards modification 2A6 and 2A4, together with the allied countries. Berlin coordinates the battalion on 2A6, but only 17 of the 31… Read more »
You just couldn’t be any more obvious.
JIMK wrote: “”In particular, the Mars MLRS and PzH-2000 self-propelled howitzers were stuck on the Slovak-Ukrainian border due to the customs policy of Bratislava. I had to send them through Poland to Germany with a hook of 2500 kilometers for repairs, and then back along the same route.”” The problem with the above statement, is that in June 2022 Germany opened a repair facility for the PzH-2000 in Lithuania> I quote: The Ministry of National Defence of the Republic of Lithuania Lietuvos Respublikos Krašto Apsaugos Minister) will be repairing Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled howitzers for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The howitzers… Read more »
JIMK wrote: “”The leadership of Slovakia takes the position that Ukraine should pay import duties, since the country is not a member of the EU. In turn, the timing of the opening of the center in Poland is not yet clear.”” Not exactly true, here is a press statement from the Slovak minister of defence Jaroslav Naď as reported by Teraz.sk last week: Naď rejects problems with us in connection with German repairs in Slovakia Bratislava, February 16 (TASR) – Acting Minister of Defense Jaroslav Naď (OĽANO) rejects problems on the Slovak side in connection with the German repair center… Read more »
Can you provide links and verification for what you have posted?
Knowing some, very, senior Slovak military and the national mood, I have some reason to doubt the veracity of the contents of your post.
What you meant to write was…..” My FSB handler has given me a load of misinformation and bullshit to spread around on various sites as part of my service to my fascist Russian state. I just hope I’ve done enough to avoid being conscripted….”
No one here believes your crap.
How are things at the Russian Internet Research Agency JohninRussia based in St. Petersburg? It looks quite cold at the moment.
Lots of new kit arriving in Ukraine at the moment, so don’t forget to tell your comrades what’s coming their way next!
Hope this helps the Russian war effort!
LINK
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/PXASSGCBH4I6TE3BGAP7WW6V4Y.jpg
How are things at the Russian Internet Research Agency JohninRussia based in St. Petersburg? It looks quite cold there.
Lots of new kit arriving in Ukraine at the moment, so don’t forget to tell your comrades what’s coming their way next!
Hope this helps the Russian war effort!
LINK
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/PXASSGCBH4I6TE3BGAP7WW6V4Y.jpg
You will be telling us next that the west started this illegal war won’t you? Have you noticed NATO units rampaging towards Moscow like Pootin has!
NATO units do seem to have moved considerably closer to Moscow since 1990 than Russian units have gone West tbf.
Well thank feck for that because the Latvians have freedom to foxtrot uniform on their turf, and when they did, were held to account by the EU.
Yes, democracy as part of a wider democracy.
Strange concept for you?
Well who’s fault is that? If these countries feel threatened by the Orcs it’s no wonder they have turned towards NATO is it?
Absolutely Russia’s fault, yes. Perhaps not the best answer though. A well (western) armed and trained Visigrad group that was not part of NATO would have been less provocative.
Where has NATO actually stated any intention to set one foot into Russia? Even now there would not be any preemptive attack! NATO will only react to Russians attacking a member country.
And? The former Eastern Block oppressed nations have every right to join any organisation they feel that would be best for their country, don’t you agree? Putin has used this as an excuse for years, the NATO moving Eastwards, more so now the Nazi Russians are looking to try to justify, and make excuses for this biggest cluster of a bad and misjudged choice to invade Ukraine since Larry the Lamb went to the abattoir for a job interview.
They have the right to apply. Personally I would have rejected it. In fact I feel we should have a referendum before HMGOV gives any new applicants the nod.
Why reject any application from Eastern European countries? Referendum why? What gives “Western” nations the right?
Why reject any application from Eastern European countries? Referendum why? What gives “Western” nations the right? Not a great answer Luke, no justification or admission the problem lies with Putin.
The right is ours, not theirs. It imposes obligations up to and including nuclear annihilation so the people who would face the consequences of such an alliance should have a say in who is in it. It’s called democracy no matter how much you may hate the outcome.
Democracy is for everyone and they should be given the option. No one would/is forcing NATO to accept applications, it would be assessed as if it’s best for all. Why would I hate the outcome? That’s presumptive and quite immature comment to say so. I’m fact do you hate Eastern Europeans? Are they not allowed to apply for the strongest defensive organisation on the planet? Why?
“Presumptive and immature”.
“Why do you hate Eastern Europeans?”
Yeah, we’re done here you clown.
Clown! I see you are limited in your ability to debate and think clearly! And try not to be so scared for your future that you lose the ability to show a little courage. Tissues and blue roll end row, Tescos.
Good lad, your reply verifies my previous response to you. But as you appear not to like having your opinion challenged it’s fine by me, there are physical and moral cowards in every walk of life, it’s fine, cheers.
“NOT MY WORDS”
Gosh the most honest thing you’ve ever posted. We know already that your posts are never your words, they are whatever you’re fed by the Kremlin to say.
Ok I will keep this brief, yaaaaaaaawn, more chuff.
Not your words? I actually believe you, there.
I don’t think you’ve ever stated your own words, only what Lord Putin wants you to say!
Lots of AAA activilty across Russian occupied Ukraine, duty rumour has it, that Ukraine is using a new weapon, some are suggesting the SDB has arrived.
That should liven things up a bit!
“GLSDB builds upon the proven and successful Small Diameter Bomb Increment (SDB I) and Multiple Launch Rocket System rockets. SDB is a 250-pound class weapon with an Advanced Anti-Jam GPS System-aided Inertial Navigation System, combined with a multipurpose, penetrating blast-and-fragmentation warhead and programmable electronic fuze.”
LINK
I thought it was predicted to take up to 9 months before GLSDB would be available as the US didn’t hold any stocks and would need assembling. Also it’s incompatible with the HIMARS and M270 systems in the Ukraine and retrofits would be required.
Wasn’t the SDB just mated to an old M30 rocket? obviously have no idea how complicated that would be but I read LM had some ready to go
Boeing sorry not LM
Yes it’s an adapter casing to mate a M26 rocket to a SDB. But Boeing / Saab who developed it hadn’t received any actual orders for the thing.
They’ll need to create a production line to create the adapters, verify the quality of existing stocks of M26 and SDB, then a production line to mate all 3 together.
Boeing estimated 9 months, though maybe they’ve been able to accelerate 🤷🏻♂️
In other news. The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) is seeking government approvals necessary to proceed with the New Medium Helicopter (NMH) tender to replace the Westland-Aerospatiale SA 330E Puma HC2 and three other rotorcraft types in UK military service. Speaking at the IQPC International Military Helicopter (IMH) 2023 conference held in London from 21 to 23 February, Head of Combat Aviation Programmes at British Army Headquarters Commodore Jol Woodard said that with four companies having been recently passed the pre-qualification questionnaire (PQQ) stage of the NMH requirement to replace the Puma, Bell 212, Bell 412, and Airbus Dauphin, work… Read more »
And in addition to this.
The United Kingdom looks set to join the European Union’s (EU’s) European Next Generation Rotorcraft Technologies (ENGRT) programme to develop the technologies for vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) aircraft for the post-2035 timeframe.
Speaking at the IQPC International Military Helicopter (IMH) conference being held in London from 21 to 23 February, Steve Allen, vice-president of Strategic Development at Leonardo Helicopters, said, with ENGRT having been formally launched in late 2022, the UK could join the programme in later phases alongside the current participants of France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain, and Sweden.
NATO has outlined the concept study for its Next Generation Rotorcraft Capability (NGRC) programme, which will run across five phases that were commenced in 2022.
Speaking at the IQPC International Military Helicopter (IMH) 2023 conference being held in London from 21 to 23 February, NGRC programme manager, NATO Support and Procurement Agency (NSPA), Cyril Heckel, provided an overview of the concept phase for the NGRC programme that comprises the European NATO allies of France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, and the UK. Canada is set to join in the near future.
https://www.ainonline.com/sites/ainonline.com/files/styles/ain30_fullwidth_large_2x/public/uploads/2021/03/racer-cleansky2-pressrelease-200617-06.jpeg
The Bells have already been cut I believe. Puma has taken over in Brunei and has now been seen in Cyprus for 84 Sqn RAF.
So the usual, same or more, with less.
👍Just posted this in another thread.
“An official rendering shown for the first time at an event on 21 February depicts a Boeing MQ-28 Ghost Bat ‘loyal wingman’ landing aboard a UK Royal Navy (RN) Queen Elizabeth (QE)-class aircraft carrier.
Revealed by an official who was presenting under the Chatham House Rule, the computer-generated image shows the unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) being recovered by means of an arrester hook, and gear not currently fitted to the carrier.
While Boeing confirmed to Janes that the image is official, it declined to release a high-resolution version of it.”
https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/BDA_LW_Woomera_031822_hires.jpg
And what of this project KINDRED. Would be interesting to know more.
£2.3 billion would go a long way to address our own military shortages and shortcomings. We could buy 204 current M109A7 155mm SPGs and M993A3 support vehicles with spares from BAE, for $1.5 billion. The remainder going on ammunition and incidentals. Comfy seat cushions, tea and biscuits for the gunners.
On the subject Of weapon delivery Ukraine gets modern kit the Orcs get these FFS!
https://defence-blog.com/russia-to-deploy-vintage-btr-50-tracked-carriers-to-ukraine/
Positive feedback so far. And I’ve highlighted the most important part of the Challenger 2’s winning formula to help win the war! Britain was the first country to pledge modern western battle tanks to Ukraine. Now, Kyiv’s soldiers are in the UK learning how to operate them. “Some, like Sasha, are battle-hardened. He’s been fighting in eastern Ukraine. But he is swapping his old Russian T-80 tank for the British Army’s Challenger 2. His friend, Grisha, was just driving tractors until a few months ago. Now they’re both learning to drive a 60-tonne tank – much heavier and more sophisticated… Read more »