HMS Diamond, an advanced Type 45 Destroyer, has downed an attack drone heading for merchant shipping in the Red Sea.
This comes after British owned vessels were attacked with drones launched by Houthi militants in Yemen.
Recently, shipping firms Hapag-Lloyd and Maersk announced a suspension of all container shipments through the Red Sea until further notice amid Houthi attacks on commercial vessels.
HMS Diamond has shot down a suspected attack drone targeting merchant shipping in the Red Sea – destroying the target with a Sea Viper missile. pic.twitter.com/x68zX4WtWi
— Rt Hon Grant Shapps MP (@grantshapps) December 16, 2023
HMS Diamond is the third of the highly capable Type 45 air defence destroyers and one of the most advanced warships in the world.
When she was deployed earlier in the month, the Ministry of Defence said:
“As a powerful demonstration of the UK’s commitment to regional security, the Type 45 Destroyer will bolster the UK’s naval presence in the Gulf and work to deter escalations from malign and hostile actors who seek to disrupt maritime security.
The Type 45 destroyer will conduct operations to ensure freedom of navigation in the region, reassure merchant vessels and ensure the safe flow of trade. She will join HMS Lancaster, which deployed to the region last year, as well as three mine hunters and a Royal Fleet Auxiliary (RFA) support ship. Her deployment follows increasing concerns over maritime security at narrow sea trade routes worldwide, known as chokepoints. The ship is part of the UK’s commitment to supporting security in the region and the global maritime commons.”
American warship shields British ships during missile attack
Earlier in the month, two UK-owned ships, were attacked in the southern Red Sea, triggering a response from the USS Carney, an Arleigh-Burke Class destroyer of the United States Navy.
The first incident unfolded at approximately 9:15 a.m. Sanaa time when the USS Carney, patrolling the Red Sea, detected an anti-ship ballistic missile launched from Houthi-controlled areas in Yemen.
The missile targeted the MV Unity Explorer, a Bahamas-flagged, UK-owned bulk carrier. The missile impacted near the vessel, which was manned by crews from two nations. Fortunately, there were no casualties. At noon, the situation escalated when the USS Carney engaged and successfully shot down an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) launched from Houthi-controlled regions. The drone’s specific target was unclear, but its trajectory suggested a potential threat to the Carney. This engagement occurred without any damage to the US vessel or injuries to its crew.
A second attack on the MV Unity Explorer occurred at approximately 12:35 p.m., this time resulting in a direct missile hit. In response, the Carney provided assistance and during the operation, detected and destroyed another inbound UAV. The Unity Explorer reported minor damage from this strike, but again, no crew members were harmed. Later in the afternoon, around 3:30 p.m., another UK-associated vessel, the MV Number 9, a Panamanian flagged, Bermuda and UK-owned bulk carrier, was struck by a missile.
You can read more on those attacks here.
Does anyone know if they replace missiles when they have fired them, and if they do how long it takes? I ask this because knowing how cash strapped our armed forces gets, I do worry that if they have to shoot down a lot of these drones, our stockpile will be down for a while.
I’ve just asked on navy lookout would it not be cheaper to use starstreak, the Ukrainians seemed t like it
Issue will probably be range of interception. ASTER can cover many multiple x the area that starstreak can.
What’s Starstreak range about 10 miles is it..? Be very lucky if a target aimed at something else would ever be in range and surely you would need to see it too. Even CAMM might be short legged much of the time. As we saw from the Carney, which has long range missiles it only brought down one target reportedly.
“More than 7 km”
As Starstreak was designed to be fired from land, air or sea, it could in theory be used, but my understanding only the land based launchers were purchased and it has way shorter range than CAMM or Astar.
Park a land ceptor in the hangar
I have only seen 1 land captor unit in operation and it was in Poland. Don’t think we have that many to go around.
They do not. When orders are placed they are announced and contracts published. What will probably happen is they will wait until enough need replacing that a big enough order can be placed to allow price efficiency as buying a single missile would not be price effective.
There will be an attrition usage level that allows for stocks to be rotated and expended in live fire.
This is always baked into the initial or sustainment contract – you get a better price than buy odd small batches here and there.
In theory anyway, as if you leave it too long between orders the expertise or tooling might be lost and even if not you have to pay for the years of maintain them without orders.
From a hazy memory, I seem to recall these are pre packed and installed as a unit and crained in and out, possibly doable at Sea but I’m really just using an old memory. I’m sure someone will be along shortly to answer definitively.
Not replaceable at sea.
USN gave up on at sea VLS replenishment.
Part of the reason for CAMM is it is a lighter missile that can, in principle, be handled.
Thanks SB, I seem to recall this. It always makes me feel that this is a serious handicap.
The current situation certainly demonstrates the requirement for an expedited CAMM mod to supplement the existing maximum of 48 Aster 15/30 onboard T-45. Could easily envision scenarios wherein onboard inventory is exhausted. Where is the closest secure facility available to load replacements? In addition to the expense, cycle time could become critical. BP announced today that it is joining other organizations in pausing transits through the Red Sea indefinitely (before any ships have been sunk or seriously damaged). This could become a test case of the hypothesis that maritime choke points may determine history. 🤔
The easiest solution would be CAMM PODS containerised CAMM.
This was supposed to be in the works from a while back.
That way you could equally use an RFA to throw an umbrella over a group of ships in transit.
The Hutis etc are the Little Grey Men of this conflict.
Interesting, did not realize a self-sufficient, containerized naval variant of CAMM was under development. Presumably these could outfit not only RFA but also STUFT vessels? If so, convoy system could prove to be viable. 🤔👍
I didn’t realize that they’d actually started on CAMM in a box either, but it’s an overdue capability, so I’m really pleased to hear it.
If you think about the components of Sky Sabre: CAMM effectors, Giraffe radar and the control system, you’ll see it may not be that easy to put CAMM in a POD on a STUFT vessel. Unless a self contained version is created, which I think unlikely, it will probably use the ship’s radar and control systems for targetting. STUFT and even some RFA may struggle.
Understand, thanks. 👍
Aster 15 is going out of RN service within the decade, no reason to replace them. In fact using them is probably more cost effective than decommissioning the whole stock pile and aids in maritime security.
I would imagine they will simply upgrade the aster 15s into 30s as long as there is plenty of life in the missile.. no reason just they will just decommission them. Although an agree there would be little point in purchasing more aster15s.
HMS Diamond probably shot the drone down using an Aster 15 missile, rather than using the longer ranged Aster 30. The Aster 15 is due to be taken out of service, being replaced by updated Aster 30s. 24 Cells for the short ranged CAMM Sea Ceptre missile are due to be fitted between the Aster missiles & the 4.5inch gun, the box structure around the Aster missiles being extended.
On Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, the reloading time of Sea Sparrow anti-ship missile into one cell of an eight-cell launcher approx. 2 minutes. Would expect similar times for ant-air missile.
Perhaps China or Russia might ‘lend’ the houthis a hypersonic missile to prove the conventional defences are futile. What happens then?
A ‘very’ expensive way of killing a probably unsophisticated drone….!
Using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.
Roll on T45 CAMM integration. T31, with its Sea Ceptor, 57mm and duel 40mm mounts will be absolutely perfect for shipping escort missions.
It’s going to have a ferocious bite!
But it’s all about being in the right place, at the right time (range) to use any of these systems effectively. This goes back to the old argument that fewer assets can only be in one place at a time. Luckily there are French and US ships (and more) in this area but you have to question the numbers of sea worthy T45’s in these times. Yemen has been and still is a right pain in the proverbial ! It now appears that Maersk has ceased sailing vessels in the area along with other companies, this gives a massive headache… Read more »
Hmmm…by this time, well over 500K JDAM kits have been produced. Even after provision for other commitments (i.e., Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan, war reserve), there should be a spare 50-100K JDAMs available to send appropriate season’s greetings and salutations to the Houthis. 🤔😉
That’s as maybe but I was referring to the in-range shoot down of these Drones.
A truism in American football is that the best defense is a good offense.
It is an expensive way to take down a Houthi drone. But hey, it proves Diamond’s systems are operational despite breaking down during the CSG21 deployment. Her officers and crew will be chuffed, well done!
Incidentally, its made national news – I’ve just heard it on BBC R4
If the origin of the drone is identified. A retaliation should be made immediately.dont play around the royal navy. It will bite
Yes proving to be a bit of a dilemma isnt it! Using a £1 million + missile to down a <£50k drone! It was probably downed with a Aster 15 missile. The good news is that this is being replaced with CAMMS, so, the stockpile of A15 missiles we already have, have been bought and paid for, cant really be used for anything else, returning them wont raise any funds, so lets use them. As you say, a 57/40mm gun combo would certainly help too, so, perhaps we should replace CIWS/30mm on the T45 with a pair of 40mm guns… Read more »
A15 (most of) can be upgraded to A30.
The front bit is exactly the same.
The middle bit has a few difference.
A30 only has the back bit.
Hello mate, i really do think it all hinges on range though…. the T45’s main gun has proved able at intercepting many different targets over the years, It has the range and accuracy at a fraction of the price to take out these still rather crude Drones…. the 57 and 40 guns depend on being in range and the coast of Yemen is pretty long. Not saying they are not effective, just thinking about their effective range when you consider the position of this solitary T45 in relation to all the Shipping it would be protecting……We are now seeing the… Read more »
Some serious realism there Frank it’s difficult to judge where best to be to protect these merchant vessels, missile or drone fired at the guarding ship is completely different to protecting vessels many miles away and not knowing from exactly where and direction any incoming is coming from. As I said the Carney only intercepted one of I think 4 that were fired which certainly begs some questions in this regard how easy to intercept it is in that environment.
I would agree re T45, unfortunately the midships location of the current Phalanx fit wouldn’t really work for the 40mm mounts.
They need to on high forward / aft locations, with good arcs of fire.
If it was possible, adding T31’s gun fit to the T45, along with the Sea Ceptor and Viper, would make them head and shoulders the most capable air defence ships in the world.
It would be an absolutely ferocious layered air defence system, from 60 plus miles to 100 meters!
Naval WS design not really my area, but, could see 40mm guns in place of the 30mm mounts and probably one on the hanger roof somewhere, obviously some strengthening required. Would just add immensely to it’s all round capabilities like you say.
The 57mm will have a very interesting guided shell option that will effectively sit between your missile and you medium gun rounds. Trouble is with all of the cheap options is range……that’s fine if your defending a specific task group but not likely to be much us in a situation like that faced with the Houthi who can pot shot at anything in the Red Sea/gulf of Aden…not really any other options that using stupid expensive missiles.
Hi mate, yes agree with you on the range issues using guns of differing calibre’s, just gives us more options on said asset. The real issue is at some point we are going to have to take the bull by the horns and tackle this issue at source. More drones/missiles can be fired then any coalition forces have the abilities to defend against. Whether or not they run out while on escort patrol or, deplete stocks over the longer term. There is no easy way to deal with it, but somewhere down the line the gloves are having to come… Read more »
To be honest, the way the world is going with more nations seeming to fall out of the international order and the proliferation of cheap attrition drones that can undertake navel strike cheap as chips means sea lanes are seeming to be getting more and more challenging to manage. I can actually see a possibility where high value shipping actually starts be armed with in build anti drone systems…at least soft kill. after all in the 19 century pretty much every ocean going merchant vessel was armed. The are examples of modern armed merchant vessels..specifically the pacific nuclear transport company… Read more »
I think you’re right Jonathan, that said, Iran sits at the core of all the regional instability, they fund, train and equip any and all terrorist groups, with a razor like focus on causing as much instability and anti Saudi/ Israeli/ Western sentiment as possible.
It’s a vast area, from the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean and they are doubling down on it.
These will come a time that Iran will have to be dealt with.
👍👍
Cannot disagree…unfortunately I think we are looking at more than just dealing with Iran..more and more we are looking at an anti western axis..I suspect that at some point they themselves may act in concert to “deal with the west” and strike first..this will of course be lead by china and its actions.
Thanks for restating the case, probably more clearly and convincingly. Really don’t need to invade Yemen and create a Western democracy, but simply force Houthis to duck and cover and mind their manners and own business. Have a capable bomber fleet in mind to accomplish that task. 🤔😉
🤔👍 Perhaps cutting off the tail may have a salutary effect on the head of the snake? At least some of the ruling Mullahs may not implicitly believe that 72 virgins eagerly await martyrs. 😁
Think not of the cost of downing the drone, think of the cost of the ship it might have hit, and its crew; think too, of the cost to our economies of shipping companies withdrawing their ships from this passage.
As maersk, msc and h-lloyd have apparently done, paused red sea traffic
Quite. Roll on T31 in service. Looks like we might be back in the business of convoy escort.
The T31s in build, may need to be kitted out, like the Iver Huitfeldts? Ceptor + Mk. 41, with another raise platform below front of bridge for silo.
Ben Key was reported in May 2023 Navy Lookout as saying the T31s will be fitted with 32 Mk41 VLS tubes. I believe his thinking was for strike but I think its possible to pack quite a few Ceptors in those. No plans for anything in the Ivor Huitfleldts SM2 class though; either missiles or radar.
Can 3 or 4 be fitted in mk41
I have heard the phrase ‘quad packing’ . Sounds a great idea but I’ve no idea how it would work in practice. Also I believe Lockheed Martin has produced something they call ExLS – some sort of adapter which means you can fit 3 Sea Ceptors in a single Mk41 vls tube. If this works I suppose you could say dedicate 16 of your 32 Mk41 tubes to 48 Sea Ceptors leaving the other 16 for some other missile.
48 Camm, 8 NSM and 16 FC/ASW does not sound to bad. For the smaller end of the large combat ship scale it packs a punch.
They hopefully can have a mix of CAMM /CAMM-MR. Finding room for some additional CAMM on the T45s could be useful. 24 is nice, but why not go to 32-48 CAMM or put in 1-2 MK41s or a mix?
Does sound like the way to – flexible mix. If you are only fitting one type of vls on a ship it has to be Mk41. MBDA is making more of its missiles compatible, Dedicated cheap and easy cold launch tubes were right for T23 as its the only AA missile its carrying. Also the right decision to add Camm cold launch tubes to T45. Waste of an A50 Sylver tube which will end up becoming A70 and used for Aster 30 Block 1. Sylver is to Betamax as Mk41 is to VHS.
DEW will also be useful for shooting down short ranged
objects. That’s why PIP is needed.
Crikey mate…. where have you been? I haven’t seen you here for yonks.
Hi, I had a rest from here, for a few months, doing other things! Now some action has started, now time to prove the point a lot of us have made to have a well equipped RN!
It would be interesting to know at which range the drone was intercepted. The drone itself is probably not very hard to hit once tracked. Some LMM armed Peregrins loitering down threat would perhaps be a possibility? Or as an interim solution, LMM armed Lynx? It seems like a more economical way of destroying simple targets, also at range, is needed.
🤔👍 Unfortunately, future tense.
Well done guys. Nice job. Stay safe and a Merry Christmas.
U2
Yemen is now a threat to global shipping, this should be in front of the security council and we should be conducting commando raids at the very least as well as airstrikes on the rebels.
Maybe we should also consider letting the Saudis finish the job and give them an assist.
Tired of us pussy footing around with these muppets. If Iran wants to kick off then we can start taking them on as well. I doubt the regime will last long.
What’s your plan mate ? How would you suggest “We” should take Iran on ? Naval blockade, Saturation Bombing, Massed armed columns, leaflet drops ? 🙄
No we should take out the Houthi rebels in Yemen. If Iran responds then we can go operation praying mantis two on them. Take out their naval capability with air strikes and keep degrading their forces the longer they keep going. The Iranian people may well rise up if it’s handled right. The regime has been in a terrible state for a while. I don’t think Iran would respond to UN or NATO action against the Huothi Rebels though given the poor state of their domestic politics and economy. The Houthis are effectively attempting to blockade Europe, NATO has every… Read more »
That’s one of the reasons we have a Navy, to prevent blockades further afield to our island. You seem to have replaced Harold, is that true?
No
Mmm do I detect an agenda against Jim here? Further down this thread John has said virtually what Jim has but no condemnation from you!
👍 Certainly!
And just who is “we”?
Another well supported opinion from Mr David Lloyd 😀🤣
An Iranian rising sounds good until you remember what happened to the Syrian rising. Rulers who don’t care how many they kill to hang onto power need very careful handling. It’s not just the horrific death toll, there’s the millions of regugees created.
Oh no, not leaflet drops. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh!!!!!
Agree. Sadly the US elections due next year. And that of course dictates everything…..
War time presidents tend to be popular
The Dems are in a mess with Biden and seem not to know what to do. They are wary of The Orange man. Frankly its a beggars mess and I doubt they want another conflict to deal with.
Can you do more than just ventilate?
Your alternative thoughts on this developing situation would be welcome.
If Trump gets in he may well “Dictate”! The poor man’s Mussolini.
👍
If you stop running they stop chasing.
The Saudis are totally incapable of taking out the Houthi rebels and are even asking the US to show restraint regarding them. The Saudis could give the French lessons in duplicity.
😂😁
Yemen has already been bombed back to the stone age by the Saudis, so I hope any retaliation would be limited & carefully targeted. Attack Iran & the entire gulf oil trade shipping gets stopped.
What about Dragon Fire? Wouldn’t this be an ideal anti-drone system. Limitless ammunition.
Still in development,not ready for use yet.
Lasers are still sci-fi at the moment (though not for much longer). The rapid fire cannon on the new T31s would make short work of most of these drones at a fraction of the price of a missile though.
The Israeli’s have a working DEW!
Reality check mate….. only if they were within range… Seriously, you need to understand just how small the area a T31 could effectively cover in an area as large as the Red Sea.
A pertinent observation. We would need a fleet of T31 to cover a large area – unless they had a Crows Nest helicopter perhaps
Thanks Frank seem to be banging my head against a wall here as to why people think these drones just fly over your mast while targeting a ship who knows how many miles away. Very rarely will your gun be in range indeed even CAMM might struggle. And equally if the Houthis have been firing missiles at Israel they are probably not quite the fuzzy wuzzys some seem to simply presume.
This is often the case on these sites.
He’s talking about lasers though which are also shortish range because of the inverse square law.
i was referring to your answer and in particular the rapid fire canon part…. It’s ok if in range and if the T31 is in the area.
If they are in range, the Red Sea is not akin to Ally Pally pond.if you had 5+ ships there it might be different on occasion.
Only if in range and in the right place…. Too many people on here just don’t seem to understand this basic fact. You don’t fire an air rifle at a rabbit 100 fields away.
It can’t be much longer before we see some kind of special forces raid or airstrike on the Houthi bases.
It is needed.
Predator and Paveway would be favourite, no?
Now they are attacking international shipping they need to be dealt with.
But, lessons need to be learnt from our recent past, it must be done by the book with a UN mandate for military action with clearly defined mission goals.
That sorted, air strikes and SF raids.
Great care needs to exercised here, or we all get sucked into yet another unwinnable sandbox campaign.
I normally agree with you mostly but I have to question the likely outcome of another attack on yet another rogue state given the debacles in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan not to mention the stalemate in Ukraine at the moment.And lets not forget the orchestrator of all this, Iran.
Encouraged by guess who? The Russians are just loving the opportunity to take the world’s eyes and help away from Ukraine. How much more beneficial as we already see us threatened by Israel’s out of control behaviour in Gaza ( as their own appalling actions in killing of their own hostages spells out starkly ) to see the West killing Yemenis especially we having had issues with Saudi for doing so without due care. Cool heads required only very clinical actions if any should even be considered if we want to remotely keep much of the World onside when they… Read more »
Cool heads, clinical precision strikes, determined unfailing support for UKR & opposition to PRC.
👌
Absolutely Frank, any action needs to be ‘very’ carefully considered and UN approved.
I think however, if your ships are being deliberately targeted, you have every right to retaliate in self defence.
So limited air strikes on known launch locations or surgical SF raids, within the confines of self defence.
As you say, Iran needs to be brought to heal….
Ummm…at this point, uncertain whether there would be consensus in the Security Council that the sun rises in the East. 🤔
China bought the U.N. some years ago.
Well it’s the only way Barry, the UN might well be very far from perfect and certainly requires some sort of reform, but it is what it is and sets the international rule of law in stone. If we all ignore the international rule of war than things will get way worse, very quickly. Clear evidence needs to be put before the Assembly regarding Iran’s nefarious deeds and this is being gathered ( has been for a number of years), not least by UK ‘assets’ recovering all sorts of military equipment from the battlefields of places like Syria. Such equipment… Read more »
Agreed. Islamic terrorist group thinking is always to provoke ‘the great Satan’ US into overreaction; draw then into a conflict then wear them down until losses, US public opinion and financial cost does the job for them. Biden is often characterised as a dopey pacifist but in fact he has learned the lesson of 9/11 and Afghanistan; one carrier group to keep Hezbolla quiet and one to keep Iran quiet – job done mostly. The Houthi drones and AShM are likely supplied by Iran. Maybe its possible to cut the supply line.
Iran is neither Iraq nor Afghanistan. Both were Neo Conservative ‘experiments’ at nation building (and massive pocket lining). Forget that. Put Iran back in its box.
I agree. But as broad a political coalition as possible before taking action. This waterway impacts on world trade, directly but also indirectly as it progresses from nuisance to threat level; that is why Iran wishes to disrupt it. Mad, obviously but someone or group has to take control rapidly.
Sure, and I understand the concerns around escalation, but I think it’s getting close to the threshold where European and western lives and commerce are actively being attacked. We allowed ISIS to get too big and entrenched in the Levant and beyond. It would be a mistake to allow something similar.
Would be good if our EU partners shared some more of the load.
We never had E.U. partners and now it’s official. The E.U. relies on the U.S. taxpayer as always.
Go after the launch sites, and or other Houthi (Iranian) structures. The prohibitive expense will drive the inevitable. Do this sooner than later.
The Saudis spent years doing just that and achieved nothing. Eventually the IRGC told them to attack their oil installations and the Saudis gave up
Military action against the Houthis may be necessary, but not under a Biden presidency, he’s a pacifist – especially with the election next year. There have been over 80 separate attacks on US installations in Iraq and Syria recently – and only 2 or 3 American retaliations. This is seen as weakness by the Ayatollahs and everybody else in the middle east.
Yes, but we may be back in 28! 😁 2024 is a foreordained write-off.
The attack on 7th October and now these attacks on international shipping transitting a sea lane vital for world trade are being orchestrated by Iran. Therefore sooner (hopefully) than later, the Iranians must paya price. Go after the organ grinder not the monkey.
Iran is a country that is miltarily very strong and while I sympathise with your views, it’s not our neck of the woods anymore. Taking on Iran is a decision for the Americans and the Israelis.
Trump crapped out when the IRGC shot down a $200m Global Hawk drone over the Gulf in 2019. The USAF was bombed up and on its way to the Iran launch site when he had them called them back
Surely most if not all launch sites are not static. We have been trying to stop Sudanese pirates taking ships ( surely far easier) yet even today a Bulk carrier is seen sailing to port shadowed by an Indian warship.
See reply above. Doing nothing is possibly on the cards with the current western leadership, but that doesn’t make it either sound policy or a fait compli.
You are talking individual civilian trucks parked on the beach launching these things. Almost impossible to track/attack. This is like another Taliban problem, except they have coastline in some of the world’s busiest sea lanes, and the other side is plagued with pirates.
I am talking about no such thing. I am suggesting allowing Iran to squeeze the Near and Middle East without penalty is not exactly wise and certainly not brave.
Isn’t there a type 23 out in the Gulf too? Might be an idea to get another type 23 out there to assist.
This kind of incident re-enforces ty need for a permanent naval flotilla based in Gibraltar to be available one ship operating alone is not the best place to be a few forward. Based flotillas in and around hotspots would raise the nations image and status id Also like to see the royal navy ships at sea flying a big white ensign like the Americans do.
I don’t think anything based at Gib would be much use. Bahrain and Al Duqm are probably more useful. I would actually like to see us return to having a permanent Eastern Fleet Command in the region with a permanent basing of 1 destroyer, 2 Frigates, 3 MCM, 1 littoral strike group in the gulf and 2 SSN’s in Perth. That’s a bit of a stretch now but it’s worth noting that many US numbered fleets routinely operate with fewer permanent ships. So we would essentially have two fleets one with Euro Atlantic area west of Suez and one for… Read more »
What a load of complete nonsense. Which world are you living on?
Probable that deployment of two RN SSNs to Perth, absent actual conflict in the SCS, would not be feasible until SSN AUKUS is widely available.
We
Hit it. The Americans would have missed it
Hi George just wondering why my comments on ‘Tom Dunlop’ articles are deleted?
It’s no big deal George but every time I post on one of his articles my comments get deleted. It’s certainly not my problem but you’ll lose my contributions to the site going forward which I have lost a taste for honestly given some of the commentary since early October.