HMS Somerset recently headed out to sea for the first time in nearly four years as the frigate emerged from a lengthy refit.
The Royal Navy say here that she has undergone maintenance, received updates and structural improvements to her hull and living spaces, and enhanced sensors and weapon systems led by the latest Sea Ceptor air defence missile system, replacing the obsolete Sea Wolf.
“Additional upgrades to key electronic equipment, including communications, navigation and computer systems have been undertaken, ensuring the ship can operate against the latest threats well into the next decade. Diesel generators have been replaced and the remainder of the propulsion system received an enhanced clean. Other key ancillary systems have been overhauled and updated.
The work allows these workhorses of the Fleet – designed in the 1980s and originally intended to serve for around 18 years – to remain in the vanguard of naval warfare until their successor Type 26 and 31 frigates begin entering service later this decade and into the mid-2030s.”
Commander Dave Mason, HMS Somerset’s Commanding Officer, was quoted as saying:
“This is HMS Somerset’s first time at sea under her own power since a visit to Hamburg back in the spring of 2018. With a full complement of 176 sailors – many of whom are sailing today for the first time in their careers, everyone is looking forward to putting the ship through her paces.
I am very proud of the ship’s company whose professionalism, commitment and hard work have ensured that HMS Somerset is ready to safely proceed to sea. HMS Somerset has a busy programme ahead to fully test the ship and her crew over the coming weeks and months.”
If it took 4 years to do a refit, would we of not been better off just building a new ship ?
LIFEX is better described as ‘reconstruction’ than refit, they had to have their hulls strengthening as well as all of the weapons, power, eletronics and life support upgrades (radar, sonar, CMS, Sea Ceptor etc. as well as those mentioned above). LIFEX had to be done as we failed to order any new ships – hopefully a mistake we will not make again.
“LIFEX had to be done as we failed to order any new ships”
So which prat of an MP is responsible for that ?
Who was responsible? The Cameron-Clegg Coalition plus George Osborne slashed defence – but they were not the first and not the last either.
There are two factors to take into account: the delay in the initial order and the slow build of the first batch. I’ve heard the slow ordering of the first batch of Type 26 blamed on the then Chancellor, George Osborne. I don’t know if it’s true, but it seems credible. The 2010 review said all 13 would be built as soon as possible, but with reduced specifications. The 2015 review also reduced the number and the speed. Save the Royal Navy blamed all MPs for not asking the right questions, instead asking for ships to be named after their… Read more »
All of them!
Is four years a record for length of time to refit a RN vessel?
Got a few years too beat HMS Victory though nice try Somerset GMB mind you Bristol had a refit 84 / 86 then 4 yrs later was stripped out and made Harbour training ship another waste of Taxpayers pennies
HMS Victorius spent almost all of the 1950s in refit, she was almost a new carrier when she came out.
Victorious
Didn’t she have a fire in the LOX compartment which led too a metal deck and bulkhead oxygen cutting inferno that basically cut through the ships steel like a knife through butter after which LOX had too be jettisoned prior to coming alongside Mark
Gordon Brown
Ahh the Genius that sold of all our gold at record low prices. Just before the prices began to skyrocket 🙁
yep cus gold was no longer going to be worth anything… pity no one told the Ruskies or the Chinese that. Bloke was a buffoon- I may be wrong but i think he invested in the euro (currency not the football comp) , my mind plays tricks though).
Still we got two nice shiny carriers out of his loyalty to his constituents.
The carriers are only any good for a falklands situation .
The rest of the world has multiple airports that do not sink can base all types of aircraft not just those of the 23 f35s that are serviceable and does not require the whole RN to protect it against any serious threat.
The fact that the Gold was sold for a low price is not all of the story – Gordon Brown in his infinate wisdom spilled the Beans and told all and sundry that he would be offloading a substantial amount of Gold onto the market -which then gave traders etc a chance to maniplulate the price so it went down – hey presto when it was released and sold it went for peanuts.
t is not really “manipulation” for the prices to drop when you announce you will be selling a lot of it.
All of them! They built the navy for a European naval power now we have to build it for national defence. I can see the navy doubling over 30 years simply because as a trading nation we need to protect ‘our’ sea lanes and not the EU’s
That’s a fair point about the EU.
Seems a long time. Some nations could build a new one in four years.
Yes but we did not order any, so there were none to build. The RN made the best of a bad job by rebuilding those it had.
I doubt all of the four years was spent in LIFEX. Given the black hole until last year, much of that time will have been spent tied up alongside waiting for the budget to become available.
We are now building and we will be churning out frigate hulls at a rate of almost 2 per year as we go into 2025. The problem is we have not built a frigate for 20 years or a destroyer for and a destroyer for 10. This means we have no hope of filling a decade long hole in escort building. The simple truth is the labour government should have ordered a frigate programme to start construction from around 2012..when the tories got in in 2010 they should have immediate plugged that gap and undertaken a swift procurement process and… Read more »
Standard political practice save as much as you can for at least next 5 years and some over (where possible) covering the next decade in case you get re-elected, but let others worry after that as no individual PM will have to concern him/herself over the problems that creates thereafter. Short termism that has damaged this Country in so many areas for so long.
Yep,spot on pal! Only look as far as the end if their nose!
It isn’t just defence. New Labour were an absolute disaster. Back in ’97 before I went to uni I was reading in the engineering and scientific journals that we needed to start designing and building the next fleet of nuclear power stations then – simply because it takes so long and our existing fleet was going to start going out of service, today. New Labour did nothing for 13 years, no that’s not true. Brown sold our only native, nuclear design authority in 2006 to Toshiba. So, now, as nuclear plants are going out of service we have enormous gaps… Read more »
I completely agree, the Severn barrage in particular could have been a really significant piece of infrastructure work. We have some of the best tidal power opportunities in the world as we have some of the highest tides and great coastline. But we seem to do F all infrastructure work in this country…
I believe (but could be proven wrong) it was Thatcher that fucked our energy pogram over in the 80’s.
We were leaders in clean coal and nuclear tech until she got her mits on it..and her a chem engineer all all that..
Don’t forget, the last two years of a pandemic probably slowed things down. No industry has been unaffected
Good point Robert.
Very good point actually.
Robert Blay,no way pal! The political parties only think 3/4 years ahead,they are totally incapable of planning ahead for future generations!
More than possible it seems.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/naval-weapons/latest/greece-signs-contract-with-naval-group-for-fdi-frigates
A new ASW frigate would cost about £1b , Hopefully a refit costs a lot less. Then where would you build a new ship? The First T26 is part built and will take a few more years until it becomes fully operational. As soon as those 8 are built they are supposedly switching to T4X to replace T45 . The other yards are fully gearing up for Type 31. ( cheap and possibly not as capable as a refitted T23?) A new build would probably take ten years to arrive , if they could find a gap. Like everything else,… Read more »
So what’s to stop Cammell Laird building a couple of Type 31.
Cammell Laird has been picked to waste their time on the national flagship, instead of on something more urgent.
That just sums up how well things are being run in this country atm.
FFS
What could be more urgent that the National Flagship-not now Boris has got his Admirals cap all polished nice & ready…
It would depend if the Type 31 could adequately do the mission of a T23? the 5 without a TAS are still ultra silent vessels with a powerful Hull sonar, we able to hunt subs solo or within a group.
T31 as is would be a more limited vessel and potentially would cost a great deal more to add a higher end sonar etc
T31 is a lower tier ship. If a higher quality one was axed as its life extension took too long, in exchange for less capable ships, then that might not be a positive.
Are the Type 3x not supposed to be modular, so you could maybe give them maybe drones for sonar ?
Also do they not also carry a helicopter for sub hunting ?
Genuine questions as you seem like you know the answers.
Type 31 are a modular design, they will be able to operate drones when we eventually buy some.
They will have a hanger to accommodate helicopters/drones, but by themselves are not really ideal for sub hunting. They really need to operate with other assets that can help with locating any SMs, which will improve its chances of getting a weapon onto the target.
An ASW frigate cost £1bn? – that has shocked me. Why so much?
Also HMS Iron Duke has been in LIFEX for 3 years, still not yet anywhere near ready to go back to sea yet. It could of been replaced with a new T31.
Some of it has been cost cutting, and cost spreading, resulting in many ships being semi-decommissioned and tied up alongside. The years of the budget ‘black hole’ kept half the navy ashore. That seems to have changed now, and we should see this work completed faster.
Shipping has no more budget now than it had in the black hole years.
No really true as the pressure is not on to spread costs to cover the hole – it has been filled. Whatver is allocated is available to spend now. There has been an uptick in availability as a result.
The Navy seems to be having some golden procurement times, unlike the army.
What! Stop listening to government platitudes and look at the money. Army Command was just given an extra £10bn for procurement to get themselves out the mess of their own making. The ten year numbers went from £19bn to £29bn. Navy Command got some extra for helicopter updates and for lightweight torpedo design, but the only thing extra for the surface fleet was the Type 45’s CAMM and Aster 30s. It could have been worse; Air Command was cut by £3.4bn. The army contracted £800m on the Challenger upgrade only last week. They still have a £6.3bn contract going for… Read more »
Jon, I must have missed this story (your second paragraph) and can’t find it on a google search – do you have a reference? I am puzzled though. No such thing as Army Command. Single services do not have their own budgets for equipment procurement – DE&S does procurement for all services.
In what way are the financials going wrong for the frigate procurements?
Iron Duke (and at least one other, maybe this one can’t remember) was in a very poor state, with serious deck rust incursion due to being laid up for so long. I do remember some argument about whether either should have even entered LIFEX due to the restorative effort needed.
I think Lancaster was the other one.
Refits always take several years. Building a new ship would have taken longer and cost more.
So how much did the refit cost then ?
From http://www.navylookout of Nov 4, 2020: “Although the failure to begin constructing their replacements sooner is indefensible, the £600M Type 23 LIFEX programme represents relatively good value”.
Thus refit averages £46.15m per frigate.
https://www.navylookout.com/progress-report-extending-the-life-of-royal-navys-type-23-frigates/
Meanwhile Japan is building two Mogami class frigates per year. Mmmm.
They have the manufacturing base. Years of slimming down mean we don’t. Goodness knows how long it would take to get us up to their speed.
That is absolutely tragic.
Again not entirely pessamistic – the NSS refresh included support for rebuiding capacity and all shipbuilders are investing in new capability now. Export orders are coming at a pace not seen since the 1970s.
From personal experience it takes about 15 years to train an engineer and develop sufficient experience to really make a difference, i.e. get to lead a small team or be sufficiently expert in a particular field to get on with the job. Throw in the need to train the trainers, rebuild the facilities etc. and you are looking at 25 years to rebuild a national capability. Trashing our industrial base in favour of a service based economy was a huge mistake. Fortunately, there is probably just enough of an engineering base left in this country to allow us to rebuild… Read more »
Japan is twitching over China, and has a lot on its plate with N Korea lobbing ICBMs etc.
Plus Japan is a country of 125m , and a bigger economy than ours.
The question has to be asked , even if the UK spent more, would enough young people swap 25k a year in a call centre and weekends out with their mates, to a career in a warship , ditch in Norway or a radar outpost on the Falklands?
With high employment, I don’t see any staffing increases over marginal gains,
I think with a bit more money spent on retention, recruitment and advertising alongside access to schools then we could double the number of sailors in the time it would take to build a larger navy. And war always makes recruitment easier, so right now I expect there is a small surge in applications.
It isn’t as simple as that. We need to keep people in the Navy for the long term. Every warship needs X amount of petty officers and chief petty officers. It can take a rating 15-20 years to become a chief. We can’t just magic up this experience because we want more warships.
I was a Chief by age 25 after 8-9 years in but I was a Tiff and we all fast tracked and it was pretty much guaranteed… I was considered to have loafed as most Tiffs got their buttons at 24.
Nowadays you can still be a young Chief but its an exception.
It did seem to vary depending on the chosen branch. WAFU always seemed slow, cos hardly any bugger left.
Are people rushing to join the RN because they see bloody land battles fought by Russia in Ukraine? Really?
I think most people realise we’re an island nation and will live or die by the sea rather than land. Twice in the last century we were almost starved to submission by naval blockade and we’re still reliant on the sea lanes. Makes me wonder why the government is paying farmers to leave fields empty and not grow food.
Doesn’t make sense to me, but i’m just an armchair observer.
I don’t get it. The navy has only 35,000 people. Forty years ago, it had 75,000. The population has increased from 60 million to 68 million. What is wrong ?
After the disastrous 2010 defence review numbers were reduced dramatically. I know in the army they stepped up drug tests to catch more people to dismiss and not have to pay pensions. I’ve heard that years later, when the army couldn’t reach the 82,000 requirement some of these soldiers were later tried to be recruited by the MOD. Shame that just 10 years ago the army had 103,000 personnel and now has just 73,000.
Edit: the largest cuts probably came after the end of the Cold War but these cuts were more necessary compared to 2010
Yes but the armed forces give you a career path that leads to a very well paid senior post as well a best in class retirement package. one thing I do think the armed forces needs to look at how it retains older individuals…. the more knowledge based your workforce needs to be the more you need to keep them working. When I started nursing the retirement age was 55 now it’s 67. That does not mean we have 67 year old staff nurses breaking their backs on acute busy wards, but we do have ward sister and charges nurses,… Read more »
Japan has realized they must do what is necessary to provide a credible defense for their people. I commend them on that. There is still more they can do but they are headed in the right direction.
Looks like they are going to open the discussion of nuclear weapons also!
Indeed just look at their location, nth Korea, China and Russia all on their doorstep with large areas of sea in three directions to protect. I would want 4 times the number of ships we have to feel safe-ish the next decade.
We built two 70k tonne aircraft carriers. Japan didn’t. Keep things in perspective.
Another good point Robert.
Thanks 👍
Isn’t there some legal reason preventing Japan from building anything bigger than the helicopter ship? Also having 2 carriers is nice but you still need the aircraft to make them useful.
Japan is in the process of converting two of its helicopter carriers into aircraft carriers and has ordered 42 F-35Bs to operate from them. The USMC recently successfully operated a couple of F-35Bs off of the lead ship.
Exactly, Japan does have aircraft carriers, they are just not called a/c carriers.
There is and that’s why they call them anything but Aircraft carriers as things stand but that is changing and their equivalent to our sloth like build ability is their sloth like political and cultural change they can see the need to change a lot quicker than they can present those changes to the public. I think they will be building bigger and bigger carriers even if they call them defence destroyers or whatever.
They changed the law not too long ago, but they still don’t call then carriers.
We do have aircraft and we are getting more aircraft. France only has 42 Rafale M’s. I don’t see many people criticising French maritime aviation. Our F35B force will offer another league of capability. Add in loyal wingman providing strike, AEW, A2A refuelling capability, with Merlin, Wildcat, Chinook Apache capability. And we will have an extremely capable carrier strike force. I know much of the capability is a good few years away. But compared to Invincible class with the Harrier, we are already light-years away, even with only 27 F35s and Merlin, Wildcat.
Yes. And both are at sea with no airpower embarked…
T26 batch 2 should have the programme sped up, after all, none ordered so no build programme. Their build rate so far has been lamentable.
We don’t need a full airwing for a visit to Liverpool do we. POW is taking part in an amphibious exercise with NATO allies. She is acting as the command centre for the exercise and has Merlins on-board. Not every exercise requires a flight deck full of F35’s. 48 are on order, 27 have Been delivered, more orders to follow. British F35’s are involved in the exercise along with Norwegian F35A’s. Our F35B’s are also flying daily over Eastern Europe along with Typhoon. It might sound bizarre, but it’s very common for most nations aircraft carriers to spend considerable time… Read more »
Absolutely! I mean it’s not as if a US President might suggest regime change in Russia or even moot the possibility of American troops being nearer the FEBA in the not too distant future.
Heavens, the RN let a logistics ship sail to a Baltic State surrounded by 2*23s and allies.
I mean, there is no concern at all in the world at the moment that things might kick off. You’re right.
Could you pass as Easter Egg please?
What do you want to happen David? we just magic up another 50 F35s out of thin air? We are part of NATO. And WW3 isn’t going to kick off because Joe slipped up. Plus after Russia’s performance in Ukraine, they don’t have the capability.
That warship set sail at near the beginning of the conflict, before we knew the capabilities of Russia; isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing?
What we should do is implore our Government to uplift defence spending and bring capabilities upto scratch.
First you need the people before buying the new shiny kit. And let’s remember Russia has zero aircraft carriers, and a lot of old unreliable warships. And as the war in Ukraine has proven, lots of BS talk about hypersonic missiles and 5th gen fighters. All missing I’m action when it to the real thing.
Glad you’re in attendance with this one, the dark side of the force is growing again.
Time to shine some light 👍
Very true, we shouldn’t underestimate our achievements.
We haven’t got that many to understimate …
Well said! We could go on and on on the mistakes made but I like to look forward and fingers crossed that the Type 26, 31 and 32 come online and on schedule.
Germany needs to start pulling their own weight and soon. If Putin’s invasion of Ukraine doesn’t wake them up then nothing will. All they’ve done since the invasion is order a few F-35s. They need to drastically increase the size of their Army, Navy and AF. The German young people need to start taking pride in their arm forces and enlist. Stop looking backwards to the 1930s and 40s and look forward. Stand up and do what is necessary to defend your country and homes and stop depending on others to do that.
Impact of Ukraine war on defence has chance of going two ways. Either policticans see Russia made a mess of the war and consider Russia no longer a threat and use it to justify cutting defence spending or they see a weakened Russia but have concerns it will learn from its mistakes and come out of the war stronger and much more of a threat. Only time will tell, which happens. UK seems to be going with no action so far.
Russia will be an inqualified threat for the foreseeable future even when Putin is no longer in power. Who will replace him? Russia holds the biggest arsenal of nuclear warheads, that is what worries the west because if Russia depends into chaos who has thier finger on the button. China is a threat to us, North Korea and Iran,
So if the UK government and Europe choose to ignore the threats of the future we have a problem.
Amazing that the Germany army is barely 62,000 – smaller than ours – and all of their armed forces have equipment availibility issues.
Regarding the Mogami Class Frigates there are two different Shipyards building them, that’s a luxury we’ve not had since the Type 23’s were constructed.
Indeed! Nice looking ships and well-armed too. “Armament on the frigates is expected to include the navalized version of the Type-03 (also known as the Chu-SAM Kai) medium-range, surface-to-air missile, a 5-inch (127 mm)/62-calibre gun, canister-launched anti-ship missiles, and a SeaRAM close-in weapon system that is expected to use upgraded RIM-116C Rolling Airframe Missiles. The ships, each of which will be capable of embarking one helicopter as well as an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV), will also be equipped with a vertical launch system (VLS) and an unmanned surface vehicle (USV), both of which will see the first instalment on any… Read more »
The question is what does this refit come in at in cold hard cash ?
Not that bad. About £600m. It’s okay value for an extra 4 or 5 years for 12 ships. (It should have been 13 ships for 8 years, but the Lifex itself has taken them out of commission for 3 or 4 years, and one wasn’t worth it.)
Not outrageous then…..
I take it that’s total for the the 12. So 50m each. That’s is a good price. I had thought it would be a bit more. They a really stripping them bare
That cost works out at 50m a ship. That will cover dockyard manpower and some materials. Other equipment will be GFE (Govt Furnished Equipment) such as the Radar, EW, Ceptor, Engines etc. All that will be from a different budget stream having already been paid for by the Equipment Desks in (Sh)Abbey Wood.
True. The £600m estimate doesn’t include the fitting of the new engines either. According Navy Lookout’s Twitter Somerset is still awaiting that.
But I’m pretty sure it’s expected to at some point.
Just in time to scrap in the next defence white paper!!
Do you think that the next white paper is going to cut defence expenditure?
There will probably be the usual paradox of more money for defence but further cutting of army manpower & platforms and of RAF aircraft. That just keeps on happening. The army is heading for a mere 73,000 troops and 148 tanks, whilst soldiering on with 30+ year old rifles and artillery and 50 year old recce vehicles – and the RAF has only 7 (is it?) fighter squadrons. The Navy seems to get meaningful incremental improvements.
Sort of form we’ve been handed so often over recent decades. But if things continue or deteriorate regarding Russia/PRC/NK/Iran, we could at least have the option of retaining them a while longer to increase numbers & the RNs options instead of retiring them as planned before Ukraine was invaded, again.
Interestingly enough I think the ship still has kept its Harpoon launchers. I wonder if the internal hardware and software has also been updated to allow for the current or a later model of Harpoon or other AShM if needed in these times?
Its a bad angle but I cant directly see the Harpoon launchers in the new photo, they should be quite visible to the right of the gun, infact the whole deck structure behind the gun appears to have been removed as theres now nothing obstructing the superstructure below the bridge. Ive been closely examining the masts for any other visible differences and the only one I can see is a small cluster of satellite dishes mounted above the bridge has been removed.
Its not a clear picture but… Aft of the gun is the ceptor silo which is the same s the sea wolf silo no outward change there. Aft of that are the harpoon missile frames. You fix 4 x harpoon missile canisters into the frames. 911 Trackers are removed and replaced by a dome that is the Ceptor data link. New/refurb Nav Radar on the bridge roof. New/refurb nav and main radar on the fore mast . I suspect that Mode 5 IFF is fitted. New EW fit on the foremast. New commercial Satcom dome. Lot of new Aerials for… Read more »
Ahh yes, in the video they also released you can see the empty harpoon racks.
With keeping the Harpoon racks I wonder if they’ve extended the Harpoons OOS date a wee bit too? Does anyone here know?
Good news; and in better than new condition, a top drawer ASW asset with 32 Sea Ceptors. What’s not to like?
True. Let’s smile at this for a while rather than fret at what might have been. 😀
Absolutely agree Paul.
👍
To be fair the 4 year refit is not accurate. First off she was in a state of reduced readiness, Then she was handed over to the yard for the refit proper to start. Time in yard hands was probably 18-24 months which will be about right for the amount of work undertaken.
And I can also say…
“Old Ships!”
Now I just wait to see this ship sold or scrapped within the next 5 years, as has happened many times before to a ship after an expensive refit.