Typhoon jets shadowed two Tu-160 bombers towards the area near Shetland where HMS Queen Elizabeth and her Carrier Strike Group were exercising as part of NATO Exercise Joint Warrior.
⚠ #QRA Voyager tanker out from Brize Norton on a NATO Air Policing squawk
🇬🇧 Royal Air Force
Voyager ZZ334 TARTN714 pic.twitter.com/0Bu4Oia9ty— CivMilAir ✈🇬🇧🇺🇦 (@CivMilAir) October 14, 2020
The flights had been noticed on multiple Open Source Intelligence Twitter accounts dedicated to tracking movements.
⚠ #QRA Second one of the day…
🇬🇧 Royal Air Force Typhoon out from RAF Coningsby on a NATO Air Policing squawk pic.twitter.com/QEfzn4oip8
— CivMilAir ✈🇬🇧🇺🇦 (@CivMilAir) October 14, 2020
Russian aircraft at no point entered British airspace.
#RAF 🇬🇧 KC3 Tanker #TARTN714 #ZZ334 is still up and squawking #QRA
Note that #BearNet was active @ 1031z [H.T @5472_nde]https://t.co/H2fG0uFwBn pic.twitter.com/X3TT2Ug3T3
— Aleph א (@no_itsmyturn) October 14, 2020
The bombers skirted Norway’s coast and flew south yesterday afternoon. Quick Reaction Alert Typhoons were launched to intercept the aircraft.
Two strategic missile carriers Tu-160 flew over the Barents, Norwegian and North Seas on Wednesday, escorted by aircraft from the Royal Air Force and the Royal Norwegian Air Force, the Russian Defense Ministry reported. The flight's duration was 12 hours #TU160 #Russia pic.twitter.com/R1NbputolL
— Sputnik Insight (@Sputnik_Insight) October 15, 2020
The Russian bombers were reported as a “hazard” to other aircraft as they were not talking to air traffic control or using transponders.
Why does the UK intercept aircraft outside of its own airspace?
Andy Netherwood, a former Royal Air Force pilot, explained why this is done.
“A country’s sovereign airspace extends 12 miles beyond its coastline, sitting above its territorial waters. However, there are 3 main reasons why unknown or potentially hostile aircraft must be intercepted before they reach this point.”
“The first is flight safety. Whilst sovereign airspace only extends 12 miles from the coastline, countries are responsible for ensuring the safety of civil aviation, including the provision of ATC services, within areas known as Flight Information Regions or FIRs. These extend well beyond the 12-mile limit. Russian long range aviation often transits the London and Scottish FIRs without filing a flight plan, talking to ATC or ‘squawking’ (operating their transponders). This makes them effectively invisible to civilian ATC and is very dangerous as airliners are also flying through this airspace. By shadowing Russian aircraft, the intercepting aircraft can show ATC where they are, allowing controllers to move airliners safely out of the way.
The second reason is because of the speed at which aircraft travel. An aircraft flying at 600 knots will travel 12 miles in little over a minute. Waiting until an unknown or hostile aircraft has entered sovereign airspace before intercepting is too late. It leaves insufficient time to safely carry out the intercept, visually identify the aircraft, provide all the required information back to decision-makers, and carry out any necessary action. Russian aircraft will normally be intercepted by the Norwegian Air Force and then handed over to RAF aircraft ensuring they are continually shadowed.”
“The final reason is to demonstrate capability and intent. One of the reasons Russia carries out these exercises is to test NATO and the UK. A failure to intercept would be interpreted as weakness and encourage further probing.”
For more on why the RAF intercept aircraft around the UK, you can read the full piece.
Just a matter of when not if. I know this is routine work for the Typhoon QRA, but on the SE Asia cruise next year, the carrier group may well not have the luxury of ground based QRA/CAP and may have to provide their own. At what point does the Lightning force start training for this – carrier launched QRA?
They already have on previous exercises, but also did a bit of this during Joint Warrior. When on their World cruise, you can guarantee that a pair of F35s will be up flying combat air patrols, hopefully in company with a Crowsnest merlin.
I’d like to think the UK F35s started taking responsibility earlier. But with only 5 on board, it wasn’t likely and would interrupt training.
i think if the carrier group were still in the area the 2 type 45,s would have picked these aircraft up long before land based did,and would have been great to see F35 sent up along with the typhoons…
Andy, agreed but dont forget the Arliegh Burke or the Duth Frigate that is a part of the group. At the moment the QE has so much anti air protection they could destroy a complete nations airforce. It would have been good if the F35Bs did the intercept, but training is training whilst at the same time it shows the QE can do one thing whilst the RAF does something else. As for all these comments on an independent Scotland, this is a defence web site (and a good one) national policitcs have nothing to do here. I’m a 50-50… Read more »
Awa n shite ? polls mean Didley squat until their is an actual day and a vote it’s all just ?. The same polls that didn’t predict Brexit the same ones that had Hilary Clinton as president ? polls aye ……???????????
Oh and what the Russian forgot to mention or more likely didn’t know about that ONE poll was those figures are AFTER undecided respondents were removed . Spin spin spin all smoke and mirrors …??
Well said Artist.Anyone who would talk of “The English Military Machine” being expelled from Scotland is difficult to take seriously. Also that Poll was commisioned by a group that supports Independence from a sample of about 2000 people so not credible.
Regards
I Totally agree with you, LPC. But Troll H is just a modern day Lord Haw,Haw!
Clearly Ivan has just given us a heads up as to their ability to attack our CBG. Firstly maritime reconnaissance get a fix then Blackjack bombers launch a stand off attack at range using skimming anti-ship missiles probably in conjunction with surface and / or sub surface attack. Consequently we need to be capable of taking out those Blackjacks at greater range. Problem is the F35B has limited range…
This Excersise has been pretty well reported, I don’t think anyone would have to try too hard to work out the Location of the Carrier Group.
Agree totally Rob, and exactly me point I have made ad nauseum on various old posts, but no words of wisdom on this point to date from the various sages on this excellent forum… maybe the answer is just a GULP! We really need a longer reach around any maritime assets deployed. We can’t just deploy to the Pacific without some form of back up too: remember the Prince of Wales in WWII etc.. Don’t misinterpret what I am saying here, as I am all for having our 2 carrier groups (!) which I think are fantastic, and protecting UK… Read more »
…and that reminds me, there is a whole air force going begging of ex-BA 747s being broken up as we speak at Kemble and elsewhere. Surely that could be a cheap stop-gap? Paint ’em grey and fit out with radar and shed loads of missiles. Sort of a long-range missile warehouse for shoot and scoot?
The Norwegian Airforce would be asleep then would they?
I doubt the group was silent and using a single picket to transmit the picture over link or using an orbiting Awacs to provide the task group picture . The Gold Picture that vessels receive is a Composite link picture from all sorts of Int sources. SIGINT, ELINT, radar and national sources. They probabley knew the exact minute when the things took off from mother Russia. On some previous vessels I was on we used to listen in to interplane radio talking to the tower prior to take off. We knew the aircraft where inbound before they even left the… Read more »
Excellent post Gunbuster .
In any possible conflict with Russia , Russia wouldn’t get anywhere near Scotland with its navy or airforce Russia’s trump card is it’s army that would be stopped round about Poland to then be pushed back by a mobilised NATO
I apologise now if I get this wrong, but the other day I half-caught an episode of “Fish Town” in which a skipper had a couple of Rooskie warships on his Radar (and visual) and I thought he said: “un-escorted 11-miles off Aberdeen?” If that was the case then I’m sure there was some UK asset at least tracking them… I hope.
Yep, a super secret spy trawler.
I think you need to wake up mate. The Russian Army would be on the Elbe in short order and maybe the Rhine too. Submarines & aircraft would seek to isolate Europe from CONUS. I’m not a Russkie bot but we need to understand the challenge and prepare for it. The four NATO forward Bde groups wouldn’t stand a chance against a million Ivans coming over the hill. So the MOST important thing is to secure our lines of reinforcement and that means the Atlantic &, de facto, the Royal Navy.
The Russian couldn’t build up a force without nato knowing nato would place assets to counter them and NATO air and sea assets are far more powerful than Russia’s u can move air assets in a matter of hours sea within days land is a bit different due to logistics
At first glance, TU-160 “Blackjack” is an impressive looking aircraft – just not sure I’d like to go to war in one! lol
Thank god for you on this site mate ???
You do realise F35 has greater range then a Typhoon? F18 has far worse endurance then F35, didn’t put the USN off, and yes USN carrier’s have air air refuelling capability, but that only tops up the tanks after take-off, as the refuelling aircraft is also limited by it’s own endurance and range it can go from the carrier. And they have to return with considerable ‘bring back fuel for potential missed bolters, and a few laps of the carrier incase a pilot is having a bad night.
As usual, facts from the expert. I wish people would take note rather than repeating the same old panic calls.
The Bear would also be signing its own death warrant as soon as went active with its radar.
It doesn’t work like that Rob, only in movies.
Robert it precisely works like that. This is a high consequence equation that needs to be built on data and not false national pride. Successful deterrence works when we can do more to them than they do to us. We need to make sure that is the case.
You are under playing our capabilities and experience Rob. We know when Russian aircraft are leaving the tarmac, to the minute. We have been playing this game of cat and mouse for a very long time.
Not that limited. F35B combat radius is 450 miles. Meteor range is 60ish miles. Round it down to 50, say. That’s 500 miles, from an enemy shore.
Every mile inland the bomber base is, is yet more distance they have to fly – longer we have to see them and react. And they would have to know where our fleet is; this exercise has been well advertised so hardly a secret.
Are there any air launched anti ship missiles with that range?
450 nautical miles, so ~830km. And that’s a lower end estimate, most project the range to top out at 505-550 nautical miles on internal fuel as the engines become more efficient in later blocks.
The Russian Kinzhal air launched ballistic missile can (if it works like advertised) reach out to such ranges but it will be extremely difficult (nigh impossible) to get an accurate enough track from outside of the F35B’s combat radius in order to guide such a missile.
Not to mention that if it’s only carrying air to air missiles they are going to be a lot lighter than air to groundd ordnance, might extend the range a little more compared to the same F35B on a strike mission.
“Independence from England”, “English military machine”, “expelled”, “Russians will bother flying close any further”. This is a flashing beacon indicating you are not even involved. Either you are a Russian Putin bot or you simply have no interest in the subject matter.
Most English and Scottish people have a common cause with no animosity at all. If the Scotts decide for independence, I will wish them well for the future.
Hilarious, sad, old and toothless, but hilarious.
Well said David. The UK is not some tacky military dictatorship that occupies the territory of some of its citizens and imprisons dissenters without trial, however there is a battle looming and for those of us who cherish this nation, we need to prepare to win the argument with heart and head and not get sucked in to the nastiness spewed by the likes of Harold. Even Alex Salmond emphasised the retention of a Social Union and said that England and Scotland should remain the best of friends
Really, that is very short sighted! Here’s a thought. If there is an independent Scotland, does that mean everyone who was born in Scotland and living in the rest of the UK require a new passport and a work visa and vice versa? I’ll think you’ll find there’s a greater proportion of Scottish people living and working in the rest of the UK than there is in Scotland. So what happens if the visas are not approved? There will literally be millions of people unemployed moving back to Scotland. Good luck explaining to them, why they would be better off… Read more »
I suspect that people living in Scotland and those living in rUK will be given the option of choosing to be:
1) Citizen of Scotland
2) citizen of rUK
3) dual nationality
I suspect a lot of rUK would try to get dual nationality in the same way people tried to get dual U.K./Eire post brexit vote, as it might give them and their children more Options down the road.
English military machine – what horseshit you write today. Many a proud Scot, Welshman, Ulsterman and Commonwealth citizen in the UK armed forces. Many serving in famous and traditional units named after/influenced by their home countries. You really need to get a grip
He is a sad lonely toothless troll, but alas I do find him amusing, sad, pathetic but amusing and I cannot resist replying to him. I think he wants to be liked, he has no friends or hobbies.
Here here, well said Mr Reid.
Plus that poll was only 58% if you took out don’t knows
Bloody hell always trolling with the same boring record! Your quite sad attempts at trolling do show you must be quite lonely, very insecure and hating the fact we all think your a lonely old bell-end. I do notice Iqbal has never raised his troll head since we picked you up for it….. very very sad life you lead.
The QE arrived back in Portsmouth this afternoon, so the headline is a little misleading.
They won’t need to Harold, as Blackjacks will be based at Lossie, welcomed in by the People’s Banana Republic of Scotland….
Joking aside, this really isn’t news, the Russians annoy us, we annoy them..
It’s been the same since the cold war was reignited.
The only real difference is the Russians don’t behave in a safe manner, turning off transponders etc.
All so little man Putin can try and prove his country still has some relevance, as it continues to slide backwards into dictatorship and bankruptcy….
Sad really….