Britain is boosting its military presence in Eastern Europe amid tensions with Russia.
Britain is moving army battlegroups, Apache attack helicopters, fighter jets and warships to Eastern Europe due to tensions with Russia.
According to a statement:
- The UK is doubling the number of personnel in Estonia and sending additional equipment, including tanks and armoured fighting vehicles. These troops and equipment will begin to move to Estonia today.
- The Royal Welsh battlegroup, which includes armoured vehicles and personnel, will leave Sennelager in Germany and bases in the UK and begin to arrive in Estonia during the coming week.
- Apache helicopters will soon be making their way to conduct exercises with our Allies and partners in Eastern Europe.
- Four additional UK Typhoon jets have also landed in Cyprus and will shortly begin to patrol the skies with NATO Allies in Eastern Europe.
- HMS Trent – a UK Warship – has already begun conducting patrols in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea alongside NATO Allies from Canada, Italy, Spain and Turkey.
- HMS Diamond is preparing to set sail in the coming days for the Eastern Mediterranean and will join up with NATO allies.
The Ministry of Defence say that the majority of the 350 Royal Marines of 45 Commando committed to Poland have already arrived, they added “we have also put 1,000 more British personnel at readiness in the UK to support a humanitarian response, if needed”.
Defence Secretary Ben Wallace was quoted as saying:
“Alongside our NATO Allies, we are deploying troops and assets on land, sea and air to bolster European defences in response to the build-up of Russian military forces on the border of Ukraine. NATO and our allies have been clear that an invasion of Ukraine will be met with severe consequences. De-escalation and diplomacy remain the only path out of this situation.”
According to a press release:
“The UK supplied Ukraine with light, anti-armour, defensive weapon systems as well as an additional defensive package of body armour, helmets and combat boots.
The UK is Europe’s largest contributor to NATO. We have deployed more troops to NATO’s Enhanced Forward Presence than any other Ally, and HMS Prince of Wales leads the Alliance’s Maritime High Readiness Force. The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has advised all British nationals to leave Ukraine immediately.”
Both NATO and OSINT recon showing Russians are still moving closer to the border. The unit of tanks that the Russians have released pictures of being loading onto rails ‘returning to barracks from the border’ have their home barracks is Crimea.
I’d be surprised if Vlad was telling the truth.
What he is saying is for local consumption: “we were winding down the exercise and then the genocide / ethnic cleaning kicked off: we had to respond for moral and ethical reasons.”
I wonder when the western democracies will realise that they have created this playbook?
We, The West:-
Basically we have handed this to the Chinese and Russians on a plate. We can protest about Honkers as much as we like but they just look at us a bit blankly and turn our idiotic broadly created definitions of terrorism etc back on us.
The West have totally lost sight of basic democratic and legal values and to a large extent this is the ultimate reward.The ultimate reward for the war-on-terror a lawyer’s war of sophistry and getting around law and democracy by creating the ‘unnacoutables.’
Of course we have earned and enabled this to happen by ignoring and cutting defence to shreds for 30 years. To a large extent UK forces were the only European forces that Russia was that concerned about as the Germans would never do anything and the French would just argue with everyone else.
They knew post ’82 that UK forces could and would fight and take losses.
Once we said we didn’t need a credible army anymore Vlad would have been very emboldened. In his language he had been sent a postcard saying we were no longer up for a fight.
Vlad would be quite afraid of RM reinforced with Chally and Fires with top cover from Typhoon/F35B/Apache as he would know that a package like that would make a real mess of whatever he sent anywhere. Stir in a good air defence system then area denial is a reality unless he wants massive WWII style losses: he can’t accept that domestically so that is off the table.
Honestly, the best thing we can do right now is more investment in the Royal and expand numbers of functional boots, fund Chally 3 and Fires and area land AAW.
Sadly the army needs to sort out its mess rather than the army mess making a mess of the rest of the other two services. Bits of army need cash quick to fund the projects that are needed.
Putin has played a cunning and long game. Since Yeltsin handed over the reigns of power to him, he has successfully gulled successive Western leaders that the Russian Bear had gone away. It hadn’t. In plain sight, it rearmed and reconfigured its armed forces, conducted cyber operations against Western nations and vulnerable neighbours, pursued, imprisoned or murdered opposition figures, invaded and occupied weaker states, interfered in elections worldwide. Conducts regular hostile air and sea incursions into other nations. At the same time, we disarmed and were distracted by middle Eastern conflicts, much critical mass in naval, air and land power has been lost or gapped and will take years to regain. The mantra of having only to respond to low intensity conflicts in the future is sounding hollow.
I wish all those service people heading eastwards the very best, and that they never need to fire a shot. But this is an indictment of the lack of proper critical thinking and planning in Western capitals for the past 30 years.
Si vis pacem parabellum.
Where I differ is that I don’t think it is particularly cunning.
I just see him using a mirror to some of The West’s sillier tactics.
You are 100% correct and I would go one further by saying Mr Putin has been greasing the palms of our decision makers who have systematically gutted the UK’s armed forces over the past 30 years. It is no coincidence that the West’s defences are at an all time low so now the Bear and the Dragon has decided to push there borders out a little bit more.
I’ve often wondered if some of the more notorious defence equipment fiascos are not a result of malign foreign interference.
There has to be some serious investigations into some of these fiascos as no one can be that inapt, If we look at out academic institutions our Media and our Unions all show signs of the hand of Putin so why not the Civil Service and above all the Political Elite after all Mr Putin’s oligarch’s have their fingers in all of our political parties.
London is flooded with Russian oligarch money. I’m sure a lot of that has been put to use in the ‘grey zone ‘ of political/economic/industrial sabotage. Take Ajax as an example. The UK practically invented armoured vehicles. Put simply, it’s a hull, a turret and gun, an engine and a fire control system. They’ve been made for years upon years and yet somehow an attempt was made to re invent the wheel with Ajax , billions spent, nothing to see.
Ships that are FFBNW benefits only adversary forces, likewise the constant cuts to RAF squadrons, helicopters, transports, ISR, army equipment and enablers etc. It’s almost as if the Siloviki have been in charge the past while.
Meanwhile the politicians retire on well padded pensions , lucrative after dinner speeches and a few consultancies thrown in as well.
I’m sure (fly on the wall) Putin was advised or told to hold back on any military action in Ukraine by the Chinese leader until the Winter Olympics were concluded. It makes eminent sense that China made such a request at the recent meeting between the two. A possible attack date could be next week or, Putin may continue the dialogue with foreign leaders to maintain maximum pressure over the dispute?
What’s the significance in the Winter Olympics in regards to Ukraine, Why would it stop a possible invasion before it ended?
Traditionally theres been whats known as the Olympic Truce, a gentleman’s agreement where countries dont take part in military action while an Olympics is underway (a tradition dating back to the original Greek city states Olympics). Though Russia has twice violated it in the past with the 2014 Crimea and 2008 Georgia invasions happening during an Olympics Every other country has respected the truce however.
Thanks for that, So the hattrick is possible then.
Very significant to China especially if, as rumored, Russia seeks much closer ties? China would take a dim view of any major distraction whilst the games continue.
It would also push China into an awkward situation, the West and world would condemn Russia whilst China would have to neither agree nor disagree with what they have done.
Pressure would also mount on China for not supporting the west in the face of Russian aggression.
James China does not give two over what the west thinks.
Id disagree, relations with the West are already strained with China and they do not want to push that further. They need money and investment so they can then reinvest it worldwide and buy influence from poorer nations. Straining relations will impact this.
I’m not sure James, I think that China has reaches a critical mass of industry, wealth, access to resource and markets that it probably holds the advantage. China putting sanctions on the west would destroy the western economies as all our supply chains for every industry depend on Chinese production.
I would also have markets in China, Russia, South America that could keep them ticking over.
The west is getting to a point in a shift in power with China and I’m not sure if we are beyond the tipping point yet. What China does will depend on if it thinks it’s reach that tipping point.
You have to remember at some point China will turn around and show the west it’s lost a Mercantile war it was either to blind to see or to full of hubris to consider it could loss.
Please don’t be so down beat, the West has been re-shoring.
I would like to be a bit more up beat David, but I’m not sure the west has the Calibre of statesmen anymore. I’m not even sure we really have the will, I think people like their cheap TVs and products made in China and don’t really care to much about the rise of a chinese hegemony and decline of the west. I think we may be seeing the decline in the US lead western hegemony, maybe not immediately but within a decade or two. That is unless we get some serious spine, leaders and China does a bit of imploding. The rise and decline of geopolitical powers is a constant and Western Europe culture has been in the ascendency for a long time ( since the enlightenment to be honest).
China is only one country and one economy which is far too reliant on the west combined to also service its own debts.
As and when the Dollar loses control as the world currency then yes I would agree with you, at this stage the Dollar still reigns as the controlling currency which China cant break, yet.
Any such move of China to impose sanctions would also have the exact same impact on itself so its not going to do that. Individual western economies wouldnt cause China too many issues but a collective of them (if they could agree) would cause China a major headache.
Yes the west likes its cheap products however with the sky high shipping prices currently actually sending goods long distance from China to the western countries is not that economical anymore.
Hi James
The big issue is that the west is actually now almost dependent on Chinese manufacturing. Yes you can buy a western built produce, but even that contains key components that are manufactured in China. Currency for China is an issue, but for the west it’s more critical, we have a Dependence on Chinese manufacturing, that we need to deal with.
100% agree, the current semiconductor shortage is a perfect example of China controlling other economies through manufacturing.
Alot of other Asian countries would welcome investment and manufacturing and be able to do it at the same rate of labour as China, options exist.
Russia invaded Georgia on Day 1 of the 2008 Beijing Summer Olympics 😯
Yes indeed, but the political tectonic plates have moved considerably and Russia needs to be in China’s good books. You may be right, and the Olimpic Games are not part of Putin’s plans, but he did attend the opening ceremony and therefore chose not to implicate the games with other business?
…and the Chinese were incensed by that.. Putin knows not to upset China now.
PC/SAR, I’m afraid your highly charged conspiracy theories are sadly nowhere near as exciting as the incompetence of the MOD, service infighting and political ineptitude that some of us have been watching and reading about for years.
Spot on.
I have to wholeheartedly agree with you. From my long career in industry it’s pretty clear that incompetence and fuck-ups happen all the time. Most elaborate and overly-complex conspiracy theories can usually be explained due to someone’s duck-up; with perhaps said person trying to cover-up their failure.
Occam’s Razor.
I would tend to agree with you but you cannot be that inapt and still keep you job unless what you are doing has been signed off from some were up high.
Agreed, a combination of zero accountability / consequences for failure in the civil service and short term vote winning by PMs. Additionally tone from the top, we have policticans that are there for self interest and happily defraud the country (not a new thing it’s always been the case) and that shows people below them that it’s ok not to max return to the public.
We also have a media that is owned by very rich people, generally people that are based overseas or hiding money there for tax purposes, which means they don’t have an interest in pushing/challenging the government. It amazes me that the Torries would still probably win an election if held today, even after the death toll of covid and the mass frauds, simply because most people aren’t aware of it. Not that I think another party would be all roses.
Yes stupid does not mean conspiracies
That’s one of the daftest suggestions I’ve heard in years and I’m surprised it passed scrutiny on this site.
Why,?. we have a bit of a tradition in the UK of our politically elite batting for the opposition. the 60’s politics was awash with political scandal with UK spy’s and politicians defecting to Russia right up to the late 1970 with people like Harold Wilson being suspected by the USA of being a Russian spy that is why the USA stopped sharing intelligence with us while Mr Wilson was our prime minister. Now bring it into the 2000’S London is awash with Russian money all controlled by the main man in Russia are you seriously telling the world that non of that money has found its way into the pockets of people who should know better.
Because, assuming there was any truth in what you say about decision makers it would mean that every politician of every party and senior civil servant in at least the last thirty years would have to have been in on it . Credibility stretched too far .
It dose not mean that at all Geoff, it means that a select few of the decision makers are batting for the opposition and there are many ways to do that from slowing up the decision making process to pushing the wrong decision forward.
Sshh he’s a 🕵
OK David 😉leave it with me.
No Putin hadn’t been greasing the palms of our decision makers, because even if they were the traitors you suggest, they’d also have to be stupid not to realise the risk to themselves.
What Putin has been doing is planting stories in social media and western websites to undermine faith in our political system and democracy….
You mean the same decision makers who have systematically gutted the UK’s armed forces, who are using London as a laundering institution for the money he is extorting out of the Russian people.
We had the opportunity after the last time he invaded the Ukraine and annexed the Crimea to shut down his money trail, we did nothing.
Ignorance is bliss, being naïve is dangerous, I do not think any of our decision makers are ignorant or naïve so that just leaves inapt or corrupt, In my meagre opinion it is a combination of the 2.
Or maybe because London is still the worlds financial centre…
Hope you shined your foil hat this morning. 😆
I had to take it off, as I had to do a roast last week but our bowler hatted brigade working in the worlds financial centre are busy buying up all of the silver so I might find it hard to find any more foil.
Not tin foil. 🕵
You seem to the the spook David, are you one of the dis-information crew!!!
It’s not the world’s financial centre, that would be New York. It’s not even 2nd. It is however the European financial capital.
He’s a 🕵
It’s more than just that. Those planted stones are just the tip of the Kremlin’s spear. There is a book by Luke Harding – ‘Shadow State’ that comprehensively details how Russia has virtually gone to war against the west short of actual armed conflict. Politically, economically, financially , socially, commercially. It’s reach is huge. Cosy bear and fancy bear aren’t children’s toys. To paraphrase that book’s rear cover: No terrorist group has deployed a chemical weapon or a radioactive dirty bomb on UK shores. The Kremlin has done both.
I’d agree, we’re already at war with Russia but in a new theatre below that of traditional kinetic warfare.
Plus they feel sufficiently untouchable to be able to use dirty radioactive weapons and nerve agents in the U.K. because we lack an appropriate response. The U.K. respects the rule of law and always try to minimise collateral losses, which means we cannot be as cavalier and reckless as the Russians.
The late politician Alan Clarke in his diaries commentated that there were people working 24/7 in the Civil Service to undermine the UK.
Hello Albert, he was one of many people’s voices that fall on deaf ears and scoffed at for being a conspiracy theorist. Corruption in all its guises (financial or moral) is the cancer of democracy and it looks like the UK is due for a check-up.
Yep indeedee.
As they say follow the money. I would not be surprised if the likes of the SNP, Momentum, Anti-Vax brigade were not being agitated and funded by some Putinites deep down in the back of the room.
You know that Palace Putin has on the Black sea ? What are the servants quarters like ?
You must work there just in case they run out of toilet roll David
To be honest, it was western leaders deluding themselves with the whole end of history madness the infected the West. Russia has always been Russia and been very clear all along. We in the west have just pissed around the world thinking everyone would just go….ooooohhh liberal democracies your soooo great we love you please rebuild our nation and culture in your image…while not playing a very strait bat….all the while Russia has been getting more pissed off with the west and rearming, while China has been utterly destroying our industrial base with a brilliant Mercantile strategy that has the west taking apart what made it strong while finding china’s economic military and scientific growth.
The West has unfortunately been acting like a child in sweet shop since the fall of the wall.
I agree absolutely. Western leaders have a huge culpability for what is unfolding now. They happily indulged in the ‘New World Order’ mileau of the nineties onwards believing that the cold war had been won, that democracy would spread everywhere. Tianamen Square showed that it wouldn’t. The activities of Russia since at least the mid noughties onwards, maybe before show that it has been actively hostile towards the West. I think a recent chief of defence staff described Russian state activities as being in an actual state of war against Britain.
Supportive bloke, can’t let that go unchallenged! I don’t think that I have ever read a more sensationalist and distorted version of the truth than your post. It is pure conspiracy theory. The West has created this playbook? Nonsense! We have not ‘suspended democracy’ in any way shape or form, we have merely enabled the forces of law and order and the military to tackle a very real and serious threat from extremists, extremists from both right and left, and the religious fanatics. We have handed nothing to the Russians and the Chinese on a plate. Both those nations have their own issues with religious and political fundamentalist terrorism, more cleverly hidden in China than Russia, so we all have the same definition of, and broadly similar reactions to, what you claim to be our ‘idiotic broadly created definition of terrorism.’
I do not see that anyone in the West has lost sight of basic democratic and legal values, with the possible exception of the Republican Party in the US, and they simply do not exist in Russia or China!
EVERY nation has cut defence spending to shreds in the last 30 years (did you miss the end of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact?) with the exception of China, and they were starting from an incredibly low base based on the size of the country.
As to UK forces being the only forces that Russia (I assume you meant the Soviet Union?) was concerned about, as someone who was in Germany in the early 1980’s, and saw the extent of SOXMIS interest in local (German, Belgian and Dutch) forces, I can assure you that was rubbish! Those three nations would have been defending their own homelands, as would the French, so to say that they would have ‘done nothing’ or ‘argued with everyone else’ is unsubstantiated nonsense.
You seem rather RM obsessed, I doubt that ‘Vlad’ is concerned at all at a small number of lightly armed forces with no deep fires or AA ability. Besides, we are not going to be facing off with the Russian Army in Ukraine, our deployed forces are there to bolster and protect NATO nations, and f ‘Vlad” attacks any one of those he will be in a full blown conflict with all 30 NATO nations, and that will only have two outcomes, Russian defeat or global nuclear disaster.
With the army I think it needs to be a case of can it be deployed as part of a meaningful 21c battle group or does it support deployment of said battle group, if not it should be gone and the resource put into the formations that do.
After all there is very little in the RN, RM or RAF that is not deployable or supports deployment.
It also really shows the need for the amphibious forces as these can really make a difference on the balance around the northern flank.
agree with the need for the army to focus on armour and fires, the RM would just be stuck out to dry without that support ( as well as the fast jets and close air).
A Battlegroup is really a small tactical unit, based on an infantry battalion or armoured regiment, with Atts and Dets. Might be 600 to 800 strong. We can still deploy a number of BGs.
So you suggest that the Russians are not concerned by the Rīga based Canadian Battlegroup with Czech, Slovak and Polish troops, none of whom have any love for the Rus and love outdoor winter ‘sports’ as much as anyone – they enjoy killing Bear.
Then the American battlegroup in Poland. 10th Mountain not there, but, they won’t turn tail either.
Mr Bear might be having second thoughts but not because of the British. Indeed, given that our Officers have map reading skills only bettered by Liz Truss, they are probably laughing into their Kapusta soup.
I thought Chally 3 was funded? We must have had Contract Award.The bad news is that FOC was originally stated as 2030, but MoD has rowed back on that a bit and shaved a few years off. Thus, barely modified 24-year old CR2s are in Estonia or are bound for Estonia.
A pity that WCSP was never funded for production years ago, otherwise we would have some cracking good Warriors.
I hope those 50-year old Scimitars will do a good job.
A pity too that £5Bn of FRES money was taken away from the army years ago (albeit for a good project – CV(F).)
I think there is no chance of the ‘army mess’ contaminating naval and air programmes – I don’t see how it would.
The Wehrmacht had this off to a tee – pull back the troops before the attack. If Russian fires off the Iskanders and big aerial barrage then their troops are not in the positions the Ukrainians will hit with their artillery response.
Read that Putin pulled his super yacht out of the German port that was its home afraid of sanctions I should suspect , that’s seems like a clear sign to me.
What’s the usual composition of a armoured battlegroup in terms of vehicles?
As we speak ZZ337 RAF Voyager is doing A2A orbits over Constanta, Romania and did so yesterday flying from Akrotiri.
I’d assume this one has most likely one challenger squadron but possibly two, two warrior companies, an AS90 battery, and probably a squadron of armoured engineers. Hopefully some air defence assets are going with it, probably not land ceptor but maybe a section of stormer HVM is going.
After watching the latest forces news video, another RTR squadron is being deployed, as well as 28/143 battery RA, an AS90 battery, and engineers of 26 regiment and of course armoured infantry of the Royal Welsh.
I gathered the RTR was already in Estonia being reinforced by the Royal Welsh from Germany, Didn’t see anything about additional units from UK deploying
Yes but according to the british army website the first battlegroup consists of D squadron RTR and C company royal welsh, with additional CS and CSS units as well as HQ RTR.
According to forces news the second battlegroup consists of A squadron RTR and HQ royal welsh plus unknow amount of infantry companies, with CS and CSS elements.
Meanwhile in Paris:
https://i.postimg.cc/25WY2Km7/poi.jpg
This is interesting as the new leaders in Mali (thanks to a Military Coup) have sided with Moscow and last month kicked out the Danish contingent whilst accepting Russian troops. Would be very interesting to see if Moscow played a part in making life untenable for the French (and supporting troops)
As I understand it this is Wagner moving in. Groups of ex SF and pars etc, a similar to an Acadami/Blackwater operation.Putin said last week that this was not a Government to Government deal.
I have read that the reason for the changeover is that the Russians have a ‘tougher’ approach than the French, Danish, etc.that has brought results in other countries in that part of the World.
JIMK wrote:
yet in Libya. Wagner was exposed (via a left behind Samsung Tablet) to be an unofficial arm of the Russian military
John in Magnitogorsk has a wife and children to support farouk …
Bloody difficult as well it is. Fortunately I’m not RC.
Much like the US. Its all about deniability.
I think downing of MH17 , and Salisbury , state funded cheating in sports have been the most recent obvious denials from Russia
in which the US would not swoop that low Ivan, the US cannot get away with too much nowadays due to freedom of the press something Russia does not have , but keep on lord haw hawing more you comment the more it shows.
Thanks for your erudite comment Dave, you are keeping me in credid poits. Just spent some and and now enjoying some yummy Tunnocks Milk Chocolate Teacakes, but I’m not sure how Warburtons teacakes can be called the same.
Thats a shame I was hoping you would indulge me with conspiracy theories explaining all though’s Russian examples of blatant denials I mentioned as you seem to be more in tune being a Autocracy fan ,Salisbury a UK gov plot?
loved to hear you Ideas on MH17, and the state drug cheating or is that pushing even your abilities to explain away from the obvious lol, I guess so.
Not rising to the bait this time. I could bash out an A4 page on the alternative propaganda to that which you believe but as you have clearly made up your mind and believe our straight and honest Government it would be a waste of both our times.
LOL yep I didn’t think so, as for our Gov like any is not perfect but our people have freedom of speech and the freedom to have the option to choose more than one leader not like your poster boy Putin’s Russia , I’m sure you can give me shortened versions of your alternate reality of those Russian denials lol.
Gold * for persistence but no.
JIMK wrote:
Its a strange world we live in:
In scotland a teacake is marshmellow covered in chocolate
Across most of the Uk, its a bread roll which contains dried fruit
Where I am from, teacake means a huge plain breadroll.
A huge plain bread roll is a Bap!
The power of the English language. Designed to confuse foreigners.
Wagner, serving mil covertly, ex mil and cannon fodder fuckwits who are the “bang my head against the wall the most makes me the hardest”! Nasty tactics to terrorise the locals they come into contact with in order to archive the aim of, a, further Russian influence and b, compromise any current or previous western efforts in whichever field they are operating in. Wagner make Blackwater in Iraq look like the nicest, kindest professionals you could ever meet!!!!
I bow to your superior knowledge, but brutality can pay off in some regimes. Just look at our ally, Saudi Arabia sees headchopping as so valid a form of punishment that they keep doing more of it.
Agreed and on occasion it’s use is sanctioned and encouraged by despot regimes! Let’s however not pretend that Wagner is a military contracted private company, it’s not, and its sanctioned to do whatever it wants/needs as directed by the Kremlin head sheds! At least Saudi cuts heads off in the street, saying it’s the law, while Putin and his criminal gang do it out of view and use third parties. Russia, Saudi, cheeks of the same arse when it comes to Human Rights and Government led murder.
Yup, there are a few ‘thugs on leads’ operating and some very nasty regimes out there. Some however are authorised as they support the ‘word of US’ if they don’t similar regimes become evil and to be destroyed.
Sad about Assange here in the UK tho’.
Not sure I can quite follow your English over the last 3-4 lines? I’m sure however it’s another effort at demonising the US/West. But we are talking about Wagner here aren’t we?
No its the way any Empire operates, ours included. As long as smaller countries toe the line and support the ‘Master’ they can run themselves pretty much as they like. But smaller countries that don’t fall into line, even if internally they operate in similar ways to Empire supporters, are liable to be attacked as evil regimes. Yes, Wagner is, as you say, a prime example.
Agreed but there’s not many on here who will try to justify everything an Empire or leader does, aside from maybe yourself John! Anyway, will have to toddle off, bedtime, early start tomorrow. Cheers
Night night
JIMK wrote:
It never fails to amaze me how the left of the political centre champion Assange, as a of paragon of honesty decency who in their eyes can only be a victim. Yet this is the man who:
1) Relocated to Sweden in which to step up shop for Wiki leaks which wouldn’t extradite him to the US if they tried,
2) Who then was accused of sexual assault on not one, but 2 different women
3) Who then buggered off to London in which to escape the long arm of the Swedish law, on the understanding that he could drag out the legal stuff in England which is known to drag out legal stuff.
4) In the Uk he was befriended by the usual suspects who put up bail money for their new friend and then lost it when he felt that actually London wasn’t that good an idea and that they would send him back to Sweden
5) So he sought asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy. Whilst there he pissed off:
The Guardian
The Embassy
His so called cat
6) In the end, they sick of him took away his diplomatic immunity and invited the old bill to lift his collar.
7) Since then he has done nothing but play the victim card for being the architect of his own misfortune. The irony being that even if he had been jailed by the swedes (highly unlikely) he would have spent less time (And in better conditions) than his 7 years inside the Ecuadorian embassy.
This is a bloke who couldn’t even look after his cat which he shared a single room with. Sorry I don’t see a victim with Assange, I see a arrogant waste of rations who is willing to crap on anybody and everybody , think I’m kidding his so called supporters lost £250K in £240,000 in surety when he did a runner.
Actually he has been accused by more women globally than the 2 in Sweden.
It seems he likes to father children around the globe by have unprotected sex, consensually or not, and then doing a runner to avoid paternity costs.
So he is banged up in solitary for years for a possible sex crime in Sweden, that the police withdrew charges on.
When the real crime was exposing USG criminal activities in Iraq.
Now we know you like a bit of Russkie action but your now supporting a nonce sex offender! And there, after a long time of being on the edge as a sad Russkie troll, you now lose any credibility you may have had! Sigh, the lengths some go to in efforts to demonise the west!
Boom and once again Farouk shoots and scores!
Seriously, you’re supporting Assange. The guy who probably did most to get Trump elected by publishing all the information hacked by the GRU’s Cozr Bears group?
A guy responsible for multiple deaths in Afghanistan because he wouldn’t redact the names of locals that helped coalition forces?
You have a strange choice of heroes.
An ex friend of mine supported him too. That, and being a raging anti British Guardian reader who thought Assange and Snowden as hero’s, the Royal Family c****, and GCHQ as the enemy for their surveillance may have had something to do with him ending up as ex! …..we could talk military and other stuff but otherwise, poles apart!
I can see why he’s now “ex”
I’ve experienced the same over the last 2 years with anti-mask/ anti-lockdown/ anti-vax friends. When people are too stupid to understand simple facts its best to jettison them, life’s tough enough without being surrounded by stupidity.
Never said he was a hero, few in England ever suffer the jail conditions that he is under, without a guilty verdict.
His jail time is down to him fighting extradition, and he spent far longer imprisoning himself in an embassy trying to avoid justice. It’s his own fault he’s there.
England or Britain? The confusion between the two does on occasion confuse online bots and trolls! The mask many of us suspected is slipping JohninMK! All can now see and confirm many suspicions!
OK I got it wrong, should have written England and Wales. Scotland and N Ireland have their own legal systems, or at least did when I stayed in Edinburgh.
Good effort at extraction from self dug hole, although bit of a weak effort and straw clutching going on.
No problem here as I don’t regard myself as being in a hole. At least the rain has stopped here and the sun is out. Glorious day apart from the minor issue of a 72mph wind. I suspect the canal boats at the bottom of the garden, we call it the Grand Union but I think it’s actually the Grand zJunction, are in a shower of dead branches.
Quick response, good monitoring, let down by the standard practice of look where I live, I know locations, and cathedral spires.
I am really surprised that you seem to think that just because someone has views contrary to yours that they are an element of an enemy. If so it looks like the conditioning really worked, shame really.
Nothing to do with contrary views, as we all know that is essential for debate. And you will see in many of mine, and other contributors posts criticism of various Governments and actions, and indeed the various PMs themselves. This is not seen in ANY of your posts in regard to Russia and Putin. In fact that lack of criticism and your continued negativity about NATO and the West, speaks volumes about your obvious lack of partiality at best, and your cult like worship of Russia at worst. Sad, as your subject matter knowledge is excellent but let down by your complete lack of impartiality.
Beheading is an execution pure and simple… oh and its quick.
Is a single bullet in the back of the head paid for by the condemeds family any worse? Lethal Injection? Hanging, Firing squad?
Nice attempt at deflection…
Apparently from what I read, the French invited Danish Special forces in without consulting the new government. Possibly this sort of behaviour had been tolerated by the previous government but didn’t go down too well with the current one.
I read that too. If the Russians can help stem the flow of northbound people some of whom are destined to provide Dover docks with more boats, all power to them. Its an evil trade, drugs and cigarettes one way and slaves the other.
But that’s not what they are there to do John is it!
Yes it is, its too get rid of all the freelancing traders so that the authorised ones can operate. Also there are a lot of minerals in the area that Russia has a big interest in.
I don’t know if you know but all the ex-colonies of France are still financial colonies as their central banks have to operate through the Bank of France. We didn’t do that when our colonies got independence, they had a choice. This is one of if not the key reasons that France was so keen to get shot of Ghaddafi, he was going to fund them instead of France, costing France 1B$ est a year and a lot of power. To misquote Hillary, France came and he died.
Ok it’s late to debate but we all know the reasons for the deployment of Russian hard and soft power in Africa. But as we are talking about Wagner, they are a group, fully sanctioned to operate deniable ops on behalf of mother Russia, in various locations in Africa. From the mineral mines you mentioned to supporting whatever organisations and forces the West aren’t! It’s been going on for years, it’s picking back up again and to deny it, and to deny Wagner does make your plausibility as an independent observer a little harder to accept! Cheers.
No debate needed this time. I concur with your comments on Wagner, you describe the situation well. I didn’t mean to imply other than how you have now put it.
I’m not so anti the Wagner group. They provide usefull live fire targets for Western Spec Ops. The US really appreciated having them around in Syria ! We should really send a thank you letter to Putin.
Some real Russki boneheads mate 😂👍!
👍
Everyone was knows Wagner Group is the ‘plausible deniability’ branch of the Russian Military, run by Yevgeny Prigozhin on behalf of Putin himself 🤷🏻♂️
I’m not sure that Wagner faired all that well in Libya, no matter how tough they were trying to be with the opposition…
Many are half trained jobless civvies who join to get a paid job, facist attitudes and no brains, backed up by ex mil and commanded by serving Russkie mil!
So not quite as impressive as the “Ex-Spetznaz killers” image that they broadcast!
I was a little surprised that they took such a pasting, even if Turkey was supporting the other side with drones, but maybe I shouldn’t have been…
Not at all mate, as totally expendable muppets operating on behalf of the Kremlin!
The military junta is Mali is not choosing Wagner because they use tougher tactics than French troops. What Wagner results are you referring to? Syria’s territorial integrity is still chaotic, Lybia is still the same mess as a decade ago etc….
The reason is that the military junta does not care about fighting terrorism anymore. Their primiary concern is staying in power and are unwilling to set up free elections as they had agreed to. Wagner are just hired “bodyguards” to protect their choke on power.
Morning Farouk, any idea what will happen to the RAF Chinook deployment that was supporting the French in Mali? I seem to remember reading somewhere that we have whirlybirds out there.
They’re not going far though- just over the border to Niger and elsewhere. Apparently neighbouring countries are pretty disappointed that the Malians don’t want the French to stay.
I didn’t know about the Russian/Wagner replacement- interesting development. I think that’s likely just as much because the Western contributing nations were demanding that the military junta hand back power to civilians, while I doubt Russia is as fussed about that!
Whilst the above is very welcome it does show how hollowed out our forces have become. If 45 Cmdo is in Poland it can’t be in Norway. If another of our six armoured BGs is in Estonia then there are just 4 left (under the new ORBAT) for further reinforcement or rotation. 4 Typhoons to Akrotiri is a penny packet force and a patrol ship in the Med is of no military value at all other than flying the flag.
Now I know we are contributing to an alliance and I know we can’t afford massive forces but this should make the politicians understand just how bad things are. Realistically, with the world the way it is, we should be closer to 3% of GDP on defence. The Navy just has to have more frigates and at least another submarine if not two. The Army simply has to sort out it’s obsolete equipment and field an extra armoured brigade group. On top of that we have to sort out our artillery and air defences. The RAF simply has to have at least another 4 Sqns of fast jets if it is to make a meaningful contribution forward (4 Sqns of F35A would do nicely).
You’re right. 2% just isn’t enough to maintain nuclear and conventional forces, invest for the future, drive a prosperity agenda and treat its soldiers with respect.
So much to agree with there Rob. A total of 140,000 for Army, RAF. and RN is just not enough. Even another 0.5 % of GNP would be around 15 billion USD+. Several thousand(20000 +) troops could be had for that.
Thanks David. See what the politicians don’t understand is that if their 2% doesn’t deter it is actually a huge amount of money wasted. The defence budget has to be equal to the task. We can see from recent events that it is simply not enough. Germany, France, Italy and Spain need to get with the programme too. To deter Russia we are all going to do our bit.
Yep. But they’re not listening I fear. Money’s going up, but the cuts continue.
But Daniele, if the balloon does go up in Ukraine (God I hope it doesn’t) they will just chuffing have to listen. I’m not arguing for massive spending; that breaks the economy and gets us into a spiralling arms race, but we MUST spend enough to meaningfully deter or there is no point.
I’m in agreement Rob. I have so little faith in our politicians I fear even this they won’t change. No votes in it. And I don’t believe the opposition would be any different, worse in fact.
To increase defence spending significantly which might increase taxes or prevent money going elsewhere needs to be sold to the public – and the public do not understand. Funding is being raised slowly but surely but it is being done quietly. We have to base our deterence for Russia & China on the ability for 30+ countries to contain one or two. We have started re-building the RN and I feel that the RAF and the Army will follow – just not fast enough for my liking.
Excellent point and well made.
The movement of some more forces eastward is political signalling. We are not transitioning to War. Politicos don’t want to spend big money on this as Covid measures cost so much.
Geronimo?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-parliament-asks-putin-recognise-breakaway-east-ukrainian-regions-2022-02-15/
That was a Bill by an opposition Party. Putin’s Party, United Russia, also put a Bill forward that is now going for comment in Ministries i.e. the long grass. The latter Bill takes priority but in either case Putin has to sign it and he won’t do that whilst he wants Donbas and Luhansk to remain in Ukraine as a balance under Minsk. Only if Minsk absolutely goes down the drain is he expected to sign it.
Interesting. Thx.
HMS Trent. Talk about underwhelmin.
I recall the arguments months ago that river batch 2 would never be sent into a potential conflict zone.. And here we are..
So true!
Spot on …and yet it wouldn’t take much to upgrade a couple of them to being useful gulf escorts freeing off the Type 23 from that role. Add a 40mm and a brimstone launch cannisters or add CAMM container.
Agreed. Something that would go bang and make a large hole. How difficult can it be?
Well comrade IF the Russians did a bit less of actually threatening their neighbours they wouldn’t all want to join NATO for their own peace of mind would they?
As for the Ukraine WHAT exactly is it going to prove if they do invade? A vast amount of money spent and who knows how many lives are going to be lost all for Putins ego!
It will be interesting to see after this is over (if it kicks off or not) to see if the politicians go back to the usual stance of continued indifference to the armed forces or if after the reliance on the armed forces over the Covid period and now with the realization that after years of cutbacks the armed forces are not fit for purpose they will actually start to build on their mistakes, One can only hope.
I think we all know the answer to that one- I’m hoping they will at least have a choice .
The UK will become more technically capable, it has to as the other advance economies are not standing still. The Chinese are the biggest potential problem given the vast numbers of STEM graduates they are churning out which, combined with their current manufacturing capabilities and loads of money will probably put them in pole position within 10 years.
Whilst the Ukraine diversion has been underway, on the 4th Feb Russia and China signed what is probably the most important strategic agreement signed for decades. The multi polar world is heading rapidly towards us.
Once again you talk of a war with NATO! The only way this would happen is if the Russians attack a NATO country. NATO is a purely defensive alliance and has not threatened anyone.
As for nuclear weapons being used that would open Pandora’s box if they were stupid enough to use them!
You are right to a point but once the shooting starts the first casualty is technology and it soon comes down to the guy on the ground and if we have not got them it’s game over.
Who’s we ?
What’s our interest in Ukraine? The same as our interest in Poland and Czechoslovakia in 1939, we see a country with a hostile neighbour ruled by a lunatic despot, which does not want to fall under it’s control.
Oh, and I am so so sorry, I know you Russians get mightily offended with comparisons to the Nazis – because you ‘suffered’ so much at their hands; but the truth of it is the Soviet Union was EVERY BIT as bad as Nazi Germany, however modern Germany have regret and have corrected themselves, you (the Russian people) still celebrate your mass murderers every year….and that’s precisely why you have the leaders that you do, and the opprobrium from the rest of the world.
Sorry Ivan, as stated the Ukrainians in WWII had the choice between one VILE, EVIL empire, and another – some chose Germany, murderer of 6-10 million people. Whose to say they weren’t right? On the other side they’d have helped the murder of upwards of 80 million.
You’re not taught it in your indictrination centres, but let me state it again: the Soviet Union was no different (or probably worse) than the Nazis.
War does bring out terrible things, war is a terrible thing that itself is ‘brought out’ by terrible people like Putin, Stalin and Hitler – look at those names, three peas in a pod. “Goebels” I hear you say? Yeah, his modern equivalent is people like you sat in St Petersburg typing out feeble apologies for evil on the internet.
Well David_s you just shot down that Ivan’s BS , I’m sure the Ukraine people joining the Nazi’s side had Stalin’s forced starvation of the Ukraine people in the 1930’s in the back of the mind.
👍
Superb David.
Jay wrote:
Yes they did, during a war they didn’t start, but which Japan dragged them into in Dec 1941. But here’s the catch Japan had been at war since 1931 when it started building an Empire next door in main land China. This was the result of how nationalists took control of the government Here is an official account of what took place in Japan during that period:(Apologies for the length)
That war footing heralded in the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937 where in Aug the Japanese attacked the city of Shanghi killing 187000 chinese, when they finished in Nov, they set upon Nanking killing 300000 chinese in the infamouse event known as the Nanking masacre. Two cities almost half a million dead killed by the use of the bullet and the sword.Yet nobody mentions them which were just 2 of many, but stopping the war dead by nuking 2 japanese cities, why its a human rights war crime
You want to see Human rights war crimes follow the link and then come back to the table:
Japanese Massacres and Atrocities of World War II
As usual a factual and well presented post, therefore some will ignore it and continue in their echo chambers mate!
Thanks, it really gets my goat when on this day in 1942 this happened: But what makes it worse is the nurses were the surviours of a ship which had left Singapore on the 12th and was sunk by the Japanese. First they took the soldiers around the corner and murdered them, then they forced the nurses back into the sea and then shot them 1 nurse surived and gave evidence in 1945
The Japs really got away with so much after the war considering what happened to the Nazis at Nuremberg mate!
Agreed 👍
Holodomor. If you dont know what it is Google it.
And with those 2 atomic bombs the US probably saved millions of Allied servicemen and far more Japanese civilians from the bloodshed of having to invade mainland Japan and fight their way across country for every single square metre of soil.
As far as I am aware Ukraine is not part of N.A.T.O. However, if I want to join a political party or support any cause I wish, why should my neighbour have a say in my choice? Others here and elsewhere are commenting as if this crisis is a self contained event. It isn’t. It is part of a pattern that as too few have pointed out, includes assassinations and poisonings of political opponents, journalists inside the Russian Federation and elsewhere; Putin’s regime is shakey domestically. He was a former intelligence operative who has no political.
Putin resorted to menaces before making his demands, aclear sign of weakness. One has to see this tactic from the wider perspective of the Baltic States and Poland going back to the time of the Tsars. Sweden, never in the U.S.A.’s camp geopolitically, is currently on heightened alert – when did that happen before now? Countries throughout Central Europe fear Russia on well founded historic grounds. No one is threatening Russia. Russia is threatening everyone of its neighbours explicitly in the case of Ukraine, implicitly in the case of Norway, Finland, Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and others. If one wishes to view this from a Russian perspective – perfectly valid – then why on earth would you proceed to a posture that has galvanized N.A.T.O. as nothing else has in fifty years?
I am very proud of the people in the armed forces – but look at these numbers….and in reality look at the entire numbers of our armed forces; if there was an existential threat to the UK we could not justify even 1 soldier, sailor or airmen deployed overseas, we don’t have enough to defend our island, let alone lend help to our neighbours. How have we let this happen?
In the 1920 the doctrine was we were 10 years away from a major war, and this idea was renewed and in full force right up until 1938/9. Look at our current armed forces, both numbers and the HUGE gaps in capability, you’d have to imagine that the idea has been that we are 25 years away from a major conflict and yet here we see ourselves maybe 25 DAYS away from one.
Our politicians have been the champions of ‘creatively’ achieving the 2% target. NATO needed to put a budget target combined with an actual boots on the ground target; A country with our population should be able to deploy at least 100,000 infantry…and yet we are sending (with a straight face) a couple of companies to face down corps of paratroops, and divisions of tanks and rocket artillery.
The problem is that our leaders, all across Europe, have a very different view of the risk of Russia attacking us from most here and I have to say that for the last 30 years they have been correct.
That does raise an interesting point – I’ve been saying for a few years now the China went a little bit early with their overtly bellicose behaviour, if they’d kept their powder dry for a few years, even the US would have been making cut backs and they would have been unstoppable. China is a big challenge, but at least we have become aware of it before it is too late.
Russia on the other hand, may have timed this just right, although not playing nice, they have picked away and seen the defence cuts still being made and feeble sanctions*; so now they can be pretty sure, they can take Ukraine, and probably have a good think about supporting ‘rebels’ (parachuted in from Omsk yesterday, but honest guv, ‘Rebels’) in the Baltic sates, certainly a land bridge between Belarus and Kaliningrad.
*Diplomats expelled after the Russian state committed murder on British soil in Salisbury? All back, in fact there are more here now then before that.
My memory might be failing but I thought it was Trump that went for China with his package of measures intended to encourage more manufacturers back to the US. It is also US activity (particularly in semiconductors and Huawai) that is stirring up the Taiwan situation. The Chinese regard it as part of China and have been in no hurry to reestablish control as they plan in decades as opposed to the next election.
As you say, Russia isn’t playing nice but it does have a strategic objective behind all this and that is to feel secure on its western border whilst it shifts its attention to its south and east. The last thing they want is any kind of responsibility for Ukraine. Some say they lost an opportunity by not going for it in 2013/4 but there is a view that it was an intentional walk away. They got what they needed, Crimea, plus the dispute in Donbas which kept NATO away. Then added benefits of huge financial savings and the bonus of the best part of 2M added to their population, unlike the immigrants Europe has to make do with, these were Russian speaking, educates, mainly skilled and the same culture.
I agree that they got their timing and strategy pretty much spot on.
JIMK wrote:
Actually it isn’t Taiwan has been an ongoing bunfight since Dec 1949 when Chiang Kai-shek backed into a corner by the CCP crossed over to the Island of Taiwan with 2 million soldiers. The CCP then launched the battle of Battle of Kinmen Island just off the coast of China but held by the nationalists . the CCOP failed to take it losing 4000 men, in the process, which resulted in halting any move towards Taiwan. Since 1949 there have been many attempts by China to take Kinmen in 1950,1954 to 1955, 1958. Hainan Island (where Chinas bases it nuclear submarine fleet, was another Island the nationalist retreated to, however in 1950 the PLA launched an attack and took it by force. For China, Taiwan is unfinished business and it has nothing to do with semiconductors and Huawai.
CNN knocked out an article last year on Kinmen Island and I was really surprised by how close it is to mainland China.
Thanks but that was 60 years ago. I stand by the US stiring it up and China having a long term view, unless someone does something stupid and forces them to act.
Whilst it was 60 years ago, Taiwan is still unfinished business, and to the oriental mind, loss of face is everything. Also in the greater scheme of things taking Taiwan would allow China to claim disputed areas and grab more of the surrounding area,
The reason why China has been kicking off of late is due to how until recently Taiwan held the technical edge regards weaponry, it is only of late, that the mainland has fielded aircraft such as the J10, J22 and such its modern day navy is also relatively new , meaning that not only have they caught up with Taiwan regards technology in respect to their militaries they have surpassed them . In turn Taiwan has spent money in which to try and offset that growing gap, prime example upgrading all their F16s to the Viper standard, its purchase of Patriot missiles, Stinger, Javelin, over 400 Harpoon missiles, Harm, SLAM-ER, Lots of torpedoes including Mk 54 Lightweight Torpedo and Mk-48 Mod6 AT heavyweight torpedoes M1 Tanks, AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon, M142 HIMARS and recently M109A6 “Paladin”
Oh and just for the record, in recent history Clinton and not Trump is the president who has sold most weapons to Taiwan (not listed anything of what he sold) which also coincided with the Missile tests China carried off the coast of Taiwan between 1995 to 1996 which saw Clinton send in July 1995, the USS Belleau Wood transit the Taiwan Strait, followed by the USS O’Brien and USS McClusky on December 11-12, 1995. Finally on December 19, 1995, the USS Nimitz and her Battlegroup passed through the straits.
Clinton ordered additional ships into the region in March 1996. Two aircraft carrier battle groups, Carrier Group Five centred on USS Independence and Carrier Group Seven centred on Nimitz, were present in the region as well as the amphibious assault ship Belleau Wood.The Nimitz and her battle group and the Belleau Wood sailed through the Taiwan Strait, The crisis forced the Chinese leadership in 1996 to acknowledge its inability to stop U.S. forces from coming to Taiwan’s assistance.
Thank you for going to the effort, fascinating. China is not an area I know much about, I just pick up bits in passing.
“…The Chinese regard it(Taiwan)
as part of China…”
It is absurd that a island(Taiwan) 96 miles offshore of China should be considered to belong to China.
If you believe that is so, do you also believe that the island of Britain should be part of France, of only being 22 miles across the Channel?
It may be absurd but prior to Japan and WW2 there was one China, but since 1955 there are two. Taiwan is not a recognised country in the UN and does not have currently, as I understand it, diplomatic relations with the UN, US, UK, UK etc. Since 1949 China has claimed it as a province but has no administrative control over it. How it pans out over time goodness knows.
Distance is no problem for sovereignty, ask the French, they have regions not just in France but all round the World.
China are facing massive domestic issues. Most of all, they can’t (and haven’t) maintain such large economic growth. So Xi and Co. likely felt that they had to act when they did to keep the patriotism strong. And they need a lot of that as bellies can only go hungry for so long.
And for Xi himself, he had to act within two terms or very likely face getting replaced like his predecessors were.
There has also been some maritime law academic papers published recently looking at the validity of china’s claim to the south China Sea. There is a strong argument presented that China may indeed have historic title to the SCS reinforced by allied decisions at the end of WWII. The papers also argue however that it is the government in Taiwan that may have the stronger claim given they are the successors of the regime in power when the allies reaffirmed Chinese administration after WWII. The increased tempo of PRC pressure on Taiwan might be about forcing a unification before Taiwan takes its claims to court and possibly wins.
https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/JIPA/Display/Article/2528218/historically-mine-the-potentially-legal-basis-for-chinas-sovereignty-claims-to/
The Salisbury and Litvinenko poisonings suggest otherwise.
I agree with your sentiment. But you do realise an army of 100,000 infantry would give us an army of over 1 million? Infantry only ever make up a small part of an army, supporting CS and CSS the rest.
I acknowledge the sentiment of that I was probably using the figures and nomenclature a little more broadly – so if you look at the current army is is somewhere less that 80,000 with 1/4 of them being ‘infantry’; the thrust of my point is to send fully functioning and at least to an extent self sufficient units (divisions and corps rather than companies).
The 350 quoted currently, I have no doubt there is support on top of that…or if not it makes our numbers even worse, we send troops that take up the logistics that are already there, couple that with integration, chain of command, more broadly communications and then 350 (700, 1500 etc) maybe more of a hindrance than a help; we need to be able to deploy complete functioning units.
I hate to sound very cynical, but these numbers are almost like a bluff….”They won’t have to fight, the Russians won’t harm a British solider, will they? We can send 350 and the fear of repercussions will stop them.” Well no, they murdered people on the streets of Salisbury and the ‘repercussions’ were 23 of their diplomats got six months holiday at home before returning straight back to London.
Understood.
Divisions and Corps! Long, long gone David.
I’d be happy if we had 4 fully equipped deployable brigades. ( we don’t )
It is a sad state of affairs indeed.
Even in the eighties there was only one Corps, as there is now, only the current one has no frontline units assigned to it. The ARRC would be in a good place, with the DRSBCT, signal, logistics, medical and engineer units, if only proper combat units could be assigned. Also in future soldier 4 brigades should be fully equipped and deployable, hopefully in the future 4th LBCT can be made into a fully regular unit brigade.
Quick question, will SFAB battalions still be the same size as other light infantry battalions or will they be decreased in size. Normally I would’ve thought that they would be decreased, but a guards battalion is in it.
Morning Louis. Yes, ARRC is more of a skeleton formation, with allied combat units assigned in war.
It already has a Signal Brigade ( 1 Signal Bde, but without many of its components ) and Logistics provided by
Yes, Future Soldier 12,20,7,16 BCT have most of their component CS/CSS.
Agreed, 4 BCT is a mess, purely for PR reasons is it a “BCT”
SFAB battalions I believe reduce in the same way that their predecessor battalions in the SIG “Specialist Infantry Group” reduced. SIG carried out the same role even though that formations units now go on into the S Ops Bde and Rangers.
So 8 of our infantry battalions are, in effect, Company Groups. Not great is it!
Irish Guards is an interesting one, as they also lack an incremental company at Wellington, unlike the GG, CG, and SG.
My opinion with the lack of enablers in that the army should have either S Ops Bde or SFAB, but not both. Disband the SFAB and use its headcount for more CS/CSS to enable what full strength BCT remain.
So effectively the Irish guards cannot do public duties on its own. It’s a shame given the fact public duties battalions have been reduced to one at a time, but I guess when the Irish guards do public duties, if they do it, another battalion will be needed.
With regards to 4th brigade, it is really not that hard to get the CS/CSS required for it. Reactivate 3 medical regiment, stop 3 logistics reg disbanding and a new REME battalion. If 39 reg was reactivated, 3 reg could go back to 4LBCT.
Effectively this calls to stop two regiments disbanding, and the reactivation of a unit(I don’t think it is necessary to have an active component REME battalion but it would certainly help).
So, you too have noticed 3 CS Reg RLC vanishes from the ORBAT! It should be retained and either put in 4 as you suggest or used as dedicated RLC regiment for DRSBCT. Who exactly provides the GMLRS regiments with their pallets?
Yes, if 4 BCT is mainly a light infantry formation the REME support will be reduced so a battalion may not be required.
Good to see someone else on the forum knows their ORBAT. 👍
I guess the integral supply platoons support the GMLRS regiments with 101 OSB supporting second and third line logistics.
Yes I guess so.
Of course it’s less good than a specific regiments, I believe 8 regiment RLC was disbanded only ten years ago.
Army 2010 most effected CS/CSS, before that there were 7 brigades plus the commandos each with REME, RLC, engineers, artillery and medical regiments integral with the logistics brigades having a further three regiments each.
The irony is we are moving into BCT operations, however messed up it is, whilst the US is moving out of them and into divisional and Corps level formations to fight a peer enemy.
On a side note, I think that the creation of the DRSBCT is actually a good thing and is innovative. It has the ability to support a Corps sized formation and the only things that I would do to change it would be to add an infantry and a logistics battalion and take away the close support artillery regiments.
As long as it is deployable!
I don’t personally think it is that innovative, as it is basically a DAG, such existed in BAOR and in the first gulf war.
To me it exists out of desperation, as when we were having 2 Armoured and 2 Strike Brigades it was just 1 Artillery Bde, and administrative formation. Where else do they put 2 Ajax regiments orphaned by cuts.
However, it intrigues me to see how it works for real, and getting Ajax and its ISTARs suite going is essential.
Agree re supports, I saw none in the FS ORBAT for it. Agree to an Infantry component and what the hell the CS AS90 regiments are doing with it I’ve no idea. They should be with their brigades, the whole point of BCT. They were with their brigades up to the 2010 cuts when for reasons only the army knows they were removed and put into their own Group.
The cynical part of me thinks they just created the groups to make more assets on paper to the uninformed public. Still, they’re history now.
FS will be more than just spin and twaddle for me once new RA regiments of precision missiles are created and placed with in DRSBCT. And I don’t mean GMLRS.
I’m not holding my breath!
I must have got distracted, noticed I did not finish my sentence!? 😮
“It already has a Signal Brigade ( 1 Signal Bde, but without many of its components ) and Logistics provided by the ARRC Logistics Battalion. ( Gurkhas )”
I believe 104 TSB is assigned to it anyway. The new 9 REME battalion is interesting and it is good to know that there is at least one third line logistics regiment. The reductions to the Mercians are ghastly. It was only a few years ago when there were 3 active battalions.
Morning.
Yes, 104 is assigned to the ARRC. But a recent change.
I found moving 104 to the ARRC curious myself, as it has out of area expeditionary elements like 17 PMR and 29 PCMR, while to me the ARRC is NATO / eastern Europe centric.
I knew of a 9 REME but had to check my research, as could not remember anything else on it without checking.
From my understanding it will be a Theatre Support Battalion forming in Aldershot in 25, and part of 104.
No idea of its component companies.
A REME battalion is not a logistics regiment as that is an RLC unit.
I understand that, I was referring to a the new 9 REME battalion, after which I referred to 9 regiment RLC.
Thanks Louis. I mis-read your post.
I don’t think many people have been murdered on the streets of Salisbury as you put it. One woman died, possibly from contacting the poison at home, not many and not on a street. There is still no inquest on the subject to test the validity of the claims. That the UK let all those Russians back in after such a short time might speak volumes as to what actually happened, deep in both Governments they know the truth, they just don’t want to tell the plebs.
Oh OK Ivan we’ll play Sophistry with the definition of words.
In most countries if you cause someone’s death in the commission of a crime that is murder, but whether it be murder or manslaughter (do you see the portmanteau there ‘man’ and ‘SLAUGHTER’? “But but but the person was a woman! Aha I vin for the greater glory of all the Soviet people!”)
And ‘died at home’ not in the street, just read that back. You’re the type of barrackroom lawyer who contests a speeding ticket with nonsense like “Your honour, the word ‘speed’ is derived from the Old English ‘spowan’ which originally meant ‘to prosper’ – surely no British court would convict someone of trying to prosper?”
No test on the validity of the claims? Yeah she died from a nerve agent identical to that which has only one source, that being the laboratories of the Soviet Chemical weaopns laboratory that someone accidentally made from cheese strings and scotch tape….that old story, it’s as old as time. I don’t know about you, I overcooked my eggs benedict on Sunday, and what do you know, VX nerve agent….accidents like that need to be more well documented.
Go back to watching RT, looking at the dregs they’re down to these days, you could get a job there.
I was countering what you wrote which was wrong. So rather than say you were wrong you attack me. Was anything I actually wrote incorrect? Apart from Dawn Sturgess who died in hospital not at home?
While your pro-Putin conspire theories are usually most amusing for the degree of imagination required in your part… your dismissiveness over the killing of an innocent women by incompetent Russian agents and their irresponsible use of nerve agents is a deplorable low, even for a Putin supporter to stoop to.
OK so you believe the word of our Government. Good for you. I’d rather see the case examined openly in a Coroner’s court but for an unknown reason that is not being allowed. Some might accept that but to me it is suspicious if there is nothing to hide.
Not necessarily, but I don’t invent conspiracy theories to use the deaths of innocents to push my politics.
The international OPCW identified the poison as Novichok, which has only ever been manufactured in one place, Russia. The coroner delayed at the request of the CPS because of the ongoing police investigation against the 2 Russian agents responsible.
We see similar in anti terrorist cases though, John.
Sources and methods of the security service and the SIS, where intelligence came from, how it was obtained, and so forth, is often withheld.
Potential enemies, be they state actors or terrorists, must not work out methods.
Which is why that Snowden is a traitorous b******.
Not sure why it should apply to Dawn Sturgess.
I agree Daniele.
You watched that video and believed they really did go to see the 123m spire, didn’t you?
I don’t have a clue why they were there and the reason is classified. All else is conjecture.
If they went to see a cathedral the reason wouldn’t be ‘classified’.
Oh dear it’s getting a little obvious John, methinks a change of avatar, writing style and subjects matter specialisation, it’s what most trolls do when caught out.
I’ll stay as I am thanks.
Your consistent championing of Putin and Russian actions is becoming rather tedious Johninmk. You come across as a better-educated poster, with better English language training, than the horde of GRU shrills who daily wage a web war on the West in the ghastly Sputnik and similar cyber war tools.
But your arguments are essentially the same, they reflect what puppet master Lavrov said last. No objection to you putting the enemy’s viewpoint, but it becomes tiring reading this constant stream of Russian propaganda from you.
A little goes a long way, you are overdoing it, take some time off and play some golf or something.
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Agreed and spot on! Contrary to what they think, over a sustained period of time even subtle trolls and bots get clocked. It’s easy if you know what to look for.
Sorry, don’t play golf but i do work on my Vauxhall Cavaliers tho’.
In response to this comment I would like use quote from Game of Thrones;
‘There’s no cure for being a c**t’ – Bronn
True, the infantry is generally about 25% of the trained army.
The Eastern European countries joined NATO of their own free democratic choice!
A dictator called Putin has created the present Russian monster!
It is in the interests of US and UK for Ukraine to be part of the free democratic West. Not the in the darkness of Russia!
Since when was an anti Capitalist state was a success?
Well said.
I agree as well that Ukraine should be part of the free democratic West (not sure how democratic Canada is atm). But that does not also necessarily have to include NATO membership. Finland, Sweden, Austria etc seem to cope OK. The basic problem is Ukraine is bankrupt, insanely corrupt and neither the EU or Russia want to take over funding it.
Incidentally, Ukraine is a very long way from our definition of democratic.
And yet you so often apologise or excuse Putin’s actions on this site.
So well briefed I suspect a team effort. Notice how slippery ‘John’ is. When cornered he backs away and pretends sympathies he previously did not express and then returns to sniping at only the west, its allies or the Ukraine. It is utterly dishonest argumentation with a obvious slant towards not Russia, full of its own dissidents, but the Kremlin.
I count 4 maybe 5 out today. They’re not hard to spot.
I called him out if you look at my post above some where and he was typically stuck when trying avoid Russia’s wrongs , a very strange man lol.
JMK does know what he wants apart from kissing Putins ass lol.
Jay wrote:
When the Soviet Union broke up, the Ukraine found itself saddled with 1700 nuclear warheads. So a deal was hashed out between the Ukraine /Russia/US and the Uk where if they destroyed their nukes, the other three would guarantee its safety This was signed in ink Dec 1994 and is known as the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. There lies the reason why the US and Uk are helping the Ukraine
Sending Trent into a potentially hot war zone is exactly what OPV’s are not designed for. What use could Trent possibly be. More of a liability than anything else. It’s like the fleet of bullet catchers sent to the Falklands. Does the RN ever match threat with capability or just send what ever it has available.
Martin wrote:
I think its all to do with the Montreux Convention a 1936 agreement that gives Turkey control over the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime, and restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. Which are:
Non-Black-Sea powers willing to send a vessel must notify Turkey 15 days prior of their sought passing, while Black Sea states must notify within 8 days of passage. Also, no more than nine foreign warships, with a total aggregate tonnage of 15,000 tons, may pass at any one time. Furthermore, no single ship heavier than 10,000 tonnes can pass. An aggregate tonnage of all non-Black Sea warships in the Black Sea must be no more than 45,000 tons (with no one nation exceeding 30,000 tons at any given time), and they are permitted to stay in the Black Sea for no longer than twenty-one days.
HMS Trent has met up with:
Italian frigate Carlo Margottini which displaces 6,700 tons
Spanish frigate Blas de Lezo which displaces between 5,800–6,391 tonne
Trent comes in at 2000 tonnes
Which means the 3 ships could come in under the 15000 tonne limitation
Well expressed
The RN Fleet Headquarters knows what every units Operational Capability is down to individual systems . That includes defects on systems and if those defects affect overall OC. It sends units to do jobs where their OC matches what is needed.
A UK RN Warship sailing in International waters in the Eastern med is not going to be attacked by Russia, if it was it would be an instant gloves off Article 5.
For all we know it could be fitted with a load of CT kit, is hoovering up emissions and uploading them directly via satcom to the UK for analysis. Determining ORBAT and getting SIGINT is a huge and important task.
Just because it doesn’t have 16inch guns, 21 Inch Torpedoes and 124 ASM/AAW missiles fitted does not mean it’s not doing “stuff” .
Ah, GB. Every post a gem and rooted in fact. Such good stuff to be reading for a mere amateur like myself…and a few others…
AA
👋👋
Of course, it’s equally possible that it doesn’t have any such sigint or sneaky-beak kit fitted – when was there time to install that? – and has been sent into harm’s way because we had nothing else immediately available!
Farouk’s good exposition of the Montreux Convention may well explain why we are sending a minor warship, but we have to hope that it is not there with its one deck gun simply to show the flag.
That’s true it may not have any sneeky stuff fitted but most RN units have the ubiquitous FFBNW. For a lot of CT stuff it uses the existing aerial fits. The good stuff is below decks and is connected into existing cable and aerial runs when needed.
And again the invaluable contribution goes to GB! However my thoughts along similar lines..,
In Dollar terms we have the 3rd largest defence budget in the world. Only the US and China spend more on defence than we do. When you look at what each of the Services brings to the table do you think they are doing a good or bad job.
You have to factor in purchasing power as well. While you can compare potential for foreign purchases of equipment and munitions quite easily Its bad to think just in dollar terms as wages for servicemen and the cost of feeding, housing and otherwise looking after them differ hugely between countries.
You must also consider the world record RN quagmire, the type 45 program. A fleet which has known faults for 12 years, and still isn’t fixed. They must hold the record for days tied up.
Yes and the Army and the RAF. When you compare with other comparable countries that spend far less are you impressed with what we get for ourmoney ?
The MoD is paying off another two frigates this year, the money “saved” will undoubtedly be used to help fix the T45’s propulsion issue. They were not designed to be disassembled to the extent necessary to effect repairs and the yard at Birkenhead is relatively inexperienced with work of this nature.
Undoubtedly, the 12 year delay in fixing this particluar cock-up has much to do with allowing the people involved in design decisions taken 15 years ago to finish their careers and retire. Without suffering any consequences.
Rock on Geoff Hoon
Ah my former MP.
Geoff “the complete” Hoon.
I love that hoon is Australian for goon.
“The MoD is paying off another two frigates this year…”
One, HMS Argyll has had her life
extended for a further two years. HMS Montrose is due back from the Gulf later this year and most likely be retired. Argyll and Lancaster have both LIFEX in the past 5 years.
Yeah PPP affects about 50% of the UK budget but not the other 50%.In comparison with much poorer countries it underestimates there spending but in comparison with countries like US and Geramny it overestimatrs it. Our budget is still huge and my point about what we get for our money is still important.4-
Yeah pay, pensions and housing account for about half our budget. The rest is equipment which PPP has no effect on. I say again when you look at what each of the services provides for the money spent I can’t believe anyone would not have serious questions to ask them.-
Ivan the BBC , Sky , CNN still have freedom to hold its Government to account which it does daily , RT and any other Russian state media cannot do the same holding the kremlin to account which you very well know ,I’ve seen Russian state news its comical and so is Putins question time on state TV very vetted questions is putting it mildly lol.
Exactly. Read up about journalists in Putin’s Russia who have been silenced, some ‘with extreme prejudice’. Before ‘Jay’ or ‘John’ point out western journalists aren’t free from lawfare or worse, here we have the right to examine this and object even to the highest courts.
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Yes I see your point, the West has deployed hordes of BBC and CNN journalists to Ukraine. This forced Outin to deploy 130,000 troops to defend the ethnic Russians from being terrorised by this Western media invasion….
“The UK is doubling the number of personnel in Estonia and sending additional equipment, including tanks and armoured fighting vehicles”
Which tanks (Challenger II?) and which AFVs (Warrior?) are we asking our lads to go into harms way with? Has the ammunition issue for the new Challenger 3 smoothbore 120mm gun been resolved?
Yep. Challenger 2 and Warrior.
What we are deploying is a token force at best. What interests me, and we will have to wait 40 years to find out, is how the conversation went with Boris and co. Did they ask for more to he deployed and did the army say this is all they could deploy in a hurry.
The army needs significant investment to help it deal with its equipment upgrades without having to constantly cut numbers. The government needs to find a way to provide some short term top up funds, since long term increases in % is polictcially unviable.
Also the odd thing is sending 4 typhoons, that isn’t even a full squadron.
We are not going to war as Ukraine is non- NATO. These forces are being moved eastwards as political signalling.
For sure we are not going to war over Ukraine, but not significantly strengthening the NATO border following the invasion, would be admitting the treaty has no value, and would permanently destroy any economic value NATO countries get out of being in it
The Russian monster we now see was in fact created by the revolution back in 1917-1923
https://www.rt.com/russia/549901-donetsk-explosion-ukraine/
So is this the start of false flag ops?
Or could a simp,er explanation be that despite 20 years in power, Putin has been unable to improve the lives of Russian households and the economy? Blaming the Western boogeyman and stiring nationalism with a made up crisis is a convenient way to change the subject and make Putin look indispensible to the Russian people for at least another decade in power.
British military reinforcing Eastern Europe amid Russian tensions… To be totally honest here, why is the UK even bothering with token gestures, especially feeble ones likes these?
That is the nature of politics and diplomacy. We are not transitioning to War.
No??
Ukraine is non-NATO. Even if Russia did a full-on invasion then NATO has no remit to go to aid Ukraine ie to join the war.
The West responds with sanctions, which get progressively tougher. Some more NATO troops are sent to Poland and the Baltics for gesture signalling and to reassure those host countries that they will not also suffer Russian invasion.
Do you think differently?
If we were transitioning to major war, I would be recalled to the Colours, the Reserve Army would be mobilised, the Jubilee would be cancelled, service leave would be cancelled, tens of thousands of troops would go to the East as would half the RAF and half the navy, emergency orders for munitions would be made etc etc. None of that is happening.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Anyway… Britain should have kept its nose out from the very start.
Tom, Perhaps the obvious sometimes needs to be pointed out as some think we (UK/NATO) are going to war against Russia.
We have a history of aiding the underdog (Belgium in WW1, Poland in WW2, South Korea in 1950, Kuwait in Gulf War 1). It is our sense of right and wrong. Would you rather we had not sent 2,000 NLAWs and a training team to Ukraine – and imposed economic sanctions against Russia?
All useless token gestures! Putin will now do whatever he wants with Ukraine. NATO and the rest of the world baulked at doing anything meaningful. They mouthed off, but achieved nothing.
Now the Ukrainian people will once again, suffer the effect of autocratic power, being inflicted upon them, while the west stood by and did nothing!
NATO has finally lost whatever credibility it had left. Russia is in charge in Europe now, and that will never change, unless there is all out war in Europe.
After seeing how weak the west is, give it a year or so, and China will move on Taiwan.
How has NATO lost credibility? Article 5 did not apply as Ukraine is non-NATO, so NATO had no Charter remit to go to war against Russia. NATO has reinforced its eFP forces in Poland and the 3 Baltic states, and many NATO memebrs sent military equipment and trainers to Ukraine in thelast few months. NATO has done all it can.
Tell that to the dead! Putin Has been planning this for more than 8 years now.
The Oligarchs and banks have had 8+ years to prepare for this.
And Nato cites article 5, to keep Russia from turning on them as well.
As I said at the start… the world has known, NATO has also known that this was coming for 8 years. It has done nothing to prevent death and human suffering.