Britain is boosting its military presence in Eastern Europe amid tensions with Russia.

Britain is moving army battlegroups, Apache attack helicopters, fighter jets and warships to Eastern Europe due to tensions with Russia.

According to a statement:

  • The UK is doubling the number of personnel in Estonia and sending additional equipment, including tanks and armoured fighting vehicles. These troops and equipment will begin to move to Estonia today. 
  • The Royal Welsh battlegroup, which includes armoured vehicles and personnel, will leave Sennelager in Germany and bases in the UK and begin to arrive in Estonia during the coming week.
  • Apache helicopters will soon be making their way to conduct exercises with our Allies and partners in Eastern Europe.
  • Four additional UK Typhoon jets have also landed in Cyprus and will shortly begin to patrol the skies with NATO Allies in Eastern Europe.
  • HMS Trent – a UK Warship – has already begun conducting patrols in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea alongside NATO Allies from Canada, Italy, Spain and Turkey.
  • HMS Diamond is preparing to set sail in the coming days for the Eastern Mediterranean and will join up with NATO allies.

The Ministry of Defence say that the majority of the 350 Royal Marines of 45 Commando committed to Poland have already arrived, they added “we have also put 1,000 more British personnel at readiness in the UK to support a humanitarian response, if needed”.

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace was quoted as saying:

“Alongside our NATO Allies, we are deploying troops and assets on land, sea and air to bolster European defences in response to the build-up of Russian military forces on the border of Ukraine. NATO and our allies have been clear that an invasion of Ukraine will be met with severe consequences. De-escalation and diplomacy remain the only path out of this situation.”

According to a press release:

The UK supplied Ukraine with light, anti-armour, defensive weapon systems as well as an additional defensive package of body armour, helmets and combat boots.

The UK is Europe’s largest contributor to NATO. We have deployed more troops to NATO’s Enhanced Forward Presence than any other Ally, and HMS Prince of Wales leads the Alliance’s Maritime High Readiness Force. The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has advised all British nationals to leave Ukraine immediately.”

George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also works for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Watcherzero
Watcherzero
5 months ago

Both NATO and OSINT recon showing Russians are still moving closer to the border. The unit of tanks that the Russians have released pictures of being loading onto rails ‘returning to barracks from the border’ have their home barracks is Crimea.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
5 months ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

I’d be surprised if Vlad was telling the truth. What he is saying is for local consumption: “we were winding down the exercise and then the genocide / ethnic cleaning kicked off: we had to respond for moral and ethical reasons.” I wonder when the western democracies will realise that they have created this playbook? We, The West:- suspend basic democracy, justice & human right for “anti terrorism” and give absurd powers to the police and security services that they have no idea how to use and frequently abuse and get wrong; and broaden the definition of “anti terrorism” to… Read more »

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
5 months ago

Putin has played a cunning and long game. Since Yeltsin handed over the reigns of power to him, he has successfully gulled successive Western leaders that the Russian Bear had gone away. It hadn’t. In plain sight, it rearmed and reconfigured its armed forces, conducted cyber operations against Western nations and vulnerable neighbours, pursued, imprisoned or murdered opposition figures, invaded and occupied weaker states, interfered in elections worldwide. Conducts regular hostile air and sea incursions into other nations. At the same time, we disarmed and were distracted by middle Eastern conflicts, much critical mass in naval, air and land power… Read more »

Last edited 5 months ago by Posse Comitatus
Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
5 months ago

Where I differ is that I don’t think it is particularly cunning.

I just see him using a mirror to some of The West’s sillier tactics.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago

You are 100% correct and I would go one further by saying Mr Putin has been greasing the palms of our decision makers who have systematically gutted the UK’s armed forces over the past 30 years. It is no coincidence that the West’s defences are at an all time low so now the Bear and the Dragon has decided to push there borders out a little bit more.

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
5 months ago

I’ve often wondered if some of the more notorious defence equipment fiascos are not a result of malign foreign interference.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago

There has to be some serious investigations into some of these fiascos as no one can be that inapt, If we look at out academic institutions our Media and our Unions all show signs of the hand of Putin so why not the Civil Service and above all the Political Elite after all Mr Putin’s oligarch’s have their fingers in all of our political parties.

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
5 months ago

London is flooded with Russian oligarch money. I’m sure a lot of that has been put to use in the ‘grey zone ‘ of political/economic/industrial sabotage. Take Ajax as an example. The UK practically invented armoured vehicles. Put simply, it’s a hull, a turret and gun, an engine and a fire control system. They’ve been made for years upon years and yet somehow an attempt was made to re invent the wheel with Ajax , billions spent, nothing to see. Ships that are FFBNW benefits only adversary forces, likewise the constant cuts to RAF squadrons, helicopters, transports, ISR, army equipment… Read more »

maurice10
maurice10
5 months ago

I’m sure (fly on the wall) Putin was advised or told to hold back on any military action in Ukraine by the Chinese leader until the Winter Olympics were concluded. It makes eminent sense that China made such a request at the recent meeting between the two. A possible attack date could be next week or, Putin may continue the dialogue with foreign leaders to maintain maximum pressure over the dispute?

Donaldson
Donaldson
5 months ago
Reply to  maurice10

What’s the significance in the Winter Olympics in regards to Ukraine, Why would it stop a possible invasion before it ended?

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
5 months ago
Reply to  Donaldson

Traditionally theres been whats known as the Olympic Truce, a gentleman’s agreement where countries dont take part in military action while an Olympics is underway (a tradition dating back to the original Greek city states Olympics). Though Russia has twice violated it in the past with the 2014 Crimea and 2008 Georgia invasions happening during an Olympics Every other country has respected the truce however.

Last edited 5 months ago by Watcherzero
Donaldson
Donaldson
5 months ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Thanks for that, So the hattrick is possible then.

maurice10
maurice10
5 months ago
Reply to  Donaldson

Very significant to China especially if, as rumored, Russia seeks much closer ties? China would take a dim view of any major distraction whilst the games continue.

James
James
5 months ago
Reply to  maurice10

It would also push China into an awkward situation, the West and world would condemn Russia whilst China would have to neither agree nor disagree with what they have done.

Pressure would also mount on China for not supporting the west in the face of Russian aggression.

Jonatha
Jonatha
5 months ago
Reply to  James

James China does not give two over what the west thinks.

James
James
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonatha

Id disagree, relations with the West are already strained with China and they do not want to push that further. They need money and investment so they can then reinvest it worldwide and buy influence from poorer nations. Straining relations will impact this.

Jonatha
Jonatha
5 months ago
Reply to  James

I’m not sure James, I think that China has reaches a critical mass of industry, wealth, access to resource and markets that it probably holds the advantage. China putting sanctions on the west would destroy the western economies as all our supply chains for every industry depend on Chinese production. I would also have markets in China, Russia, South America that could keep them ticking over. The west is getting to a point in a shift in power with China and I’m not sure if we are beyond the tipping point yet. What China does will depend on if it… Read more »

David Barry
David Barry
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonatha

Please don’t be so down beat, the West has been re-shoring.

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  David Barry

I would like to be a bit more up beat David, but I’m not sure the west has the Calibre of statesmen anymore. I’m not even sure we really have the will, I think people like their cheap TVs and products made in China and don’t really care to much about the rise of a chinese hegemony and decline of the west. I think we may be seeing the decline in the US lead western hegemony, maybe not immediately but within a decade or two. That is unless we get some serious spine, leaders and China does a bit of… Read more »

James
James
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonatha

China is only one country and one economy which is far too reliant on the west combined to also service its own debts. As and when the Dollar loses control as the world currency then yes I would agree with you, at this stage the Dollar still reigns as the controlling currency which China cant break, yet. Any such move of China to impose sanctions would also have the exact same impact on itself so its not going to do that. Individual western economies wouldnt cause China too many issues but a collective of them (if they could agree) would… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  James

Hi James

The big issue is that the west is actually now almost dependent on Chinese manufacturing. Yes you can buy a western built produce, but even that contains key components that are manufactured in China. Currency for China is an issue, but for the west it’s more critical, we have a Dependence on Chinese manufacturing, that we need to deal with.

James
James
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

100% agree, the current semiconductor shortage is a perfect example of China controlling other economies through manufacturing.

Alot of other Asian countries would welcome investment and manufacturing and be able to do it at the same rate of labour as China, options exist.

Matt
Matt
5 months ago
Reply to  maurice10

Russia invaded Georgia on Day 1 of the 2008 Beijing Summer Olympics 😯

maurice10
maurice10
5 months ago
Reply to  Matt

Yes indeed, but the political tectonic plates have moved considerably and Russia needs to be in China’s good books. You may be right, and the Olimpic Games are not part of Putin’s plans, but he did attend the opening ceremony and therefore chose not to implicate the games with other business?

Graham
Graham
5 months ago
Reply to  Matt

…and the Chinese were incensed by that.. Putin knows not to upset China now.

Geoff Roach
Geoff Roach
5 months ago

PC/SAR, I’m afraid your highly charged conspiracy theories are sadly nowhere near as exciting as the incompetence of the MOD, service infighting and political ineptitude that some of us have been watching and reading about for years.

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Geoff Roach

Spot on.

Sean
Sean
5 months ago
Reply to  Geoff Roach

I have to wholeheartedly agree with you. From my long career in industry it’s pretty clear that incompetence and fuck-ups happen all the time. Most elaborate and overly-complex conspiracy theories can usually be explained due to someone’s duck-up; with perhaps said person trying to cover-up their failure.
Occam’s Razor.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago
Reply to  Geoff Roach

I would tend to agree with you but you cannot be that inapt and still keep you job unless what you are doing has been signed off from some were up high.

Steve
Steve
5 months ago
Reply to  Geoff Roach

Agreed, a combination of zero accountability / consequences for failure in the civil service and short term vote winning by PMs. Additionally tone from the top, we have policticans that are there for self interest and happily defraud the country (not a new thing it’s always been the case) and that shows people below them that it’s ok not to max return to the public. We also have a media that is owned by very rich people, generally people that are based overseas or hiding money there for tax purposes, which means they don’t have an interest in pushing/challenging the… Read more »

Last edited 5 months ago by Steve
Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  Geoff Roach

Yes stupid does not mean conspiracies

Geoff Roach
Geoff Roach
5 months ago

That’s one of the daftest suggestions I’ve heard in years and I’m surprised it passed scrutiny on this site.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago
Reply to  Geoff Roach

Why,?. we have a bit of a tradition in the UK of our politically elite batting for the opposition. the 60’s politics was awash with political scandal with UK spy’s and politicians defecting to Russia right up to the late 1970 with people like Harold Wilson being suspected by the USA of being a Russian spy that is why the USA stopped sharing intelligence with us while Mr Wilson was our prime minister. Now bring it into the 2000’S London is awash with Russian money all controlled by the main man in Russia are you seriously telling the world that… Read more »

Geoff Roach
Geoff Roach
5 months ago

Because, assuming there was any truth in what you say about decision makers it would mean that every politician of every party and senior civil servant in at least the last thirty years would have to have been in on it . Credibility stretched too far .

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago
Reply to  Geoff Roach

It dose not mean that at all Geoff, it means that a select few of the decision makers are batting for the opposition and there are many ways to do that from slowing up the decision making process to pushing the wrong decision forward.

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Geoff Roach

Sshh he’s a 🕵

Geoff Roach
Geoff Roach
5 months ago
Reply to  David Steeper

OK David 😉leave it with me.

Sean
Sean
5 months ago

No Putin hadn’t been greasing the palms of our decision makers, because even if they were the traitors you suggest, they’d also have to be stupid not to realise the risk to themselves.
What Putin has been doing is planting stories in social media and western websites to undermine faith in our political system and democracy….

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago
Reply to  Sean

You mean the same decision makers who have systematically gutted the UK’s armed forces, who are using London as a laundering institution for the money he is extorting out of the Russian people.
We had the opportunity after the last time he invaded the Ukraine and annexed the Crimea to shut down his money trail, we did nothing.
Ignorance is bliss, being naïve is dangerous, I do not think any of our decision makers are ignorant or naïve so that just leaves inapt or corrupt, In my meagre opinion it is a combination of the 2.

Sean
Sean
5 months ago

Or maybe because London is still the worlds financial centre…

Hope you shined your foil hat this morning. 😆

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago
Reply to  Sean

I had to take it off, as I had to do a roast last week but our bowler hatted brigade working in the worlds financial centre are busy buying up all of the silver so I might find it hard to find any more foil.

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Sean

Not tin foil. 🕵

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago
Reply to  David Steeper

You seem to the the spook David, are you one of the dis-information crew!!!

Steve
Steve
5 months ago
Reply to  Sean

It’s not the world’s financial centre, that would be New York. It’s not even 2nd. It is however the European financial capital.

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Sean

He’s a 🕵

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
5 months ago
Reply to  Sean

It’s more than just that. Those planted stones are just the tip of the Kremlin’s spear. There is a book by Luke Harding – ‘Shadow State’ that comprehensively details how Russia has virtually gone to war against the west short of actual armed conflict. Politically, economically, financially , socially, commercially. It’s reach is huge. Cosy bear and fancy bear aren’t children’s toys. To paraphrase that book’s rear cover: No terrorist group has deployed a chemical weapon or a radioactive dirty bomb on UK shores. The Kremlin has done both.

Sean
Sean
5 months ago

I’d agree, we’re already at war with Russia but in a new theatre below that of traditional kinetic warfare.
Plus they feel sufficiently untouchable to be able to use dirty radioactive weapons and nerve agents in the U.K. because we lack an appropriate response. The U.K. respects the rule of law and always try to minimise collateral losses, which means we cannot be as cavalier and reckless as the Russians.

Albert Starburst
Albert Starburst
5 months ago

The late politician Alan Clarke in his diaries commentated that there were people working 24/7 in the Civil Service to undermine the UK.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago

Hello Albert, he was one of many people’s voices that fall on deaf ears and scoffed at for being a conspiracy theorist. Corruption in all its guises (financial or moral) is the cancer of democracy and it looks like the UK is due for a check-up.

Albert Starburst
Albert Starburst
5 months ago

Yep indeedee.

As they say follow the money. I would not be surprised if the likes of the SNP, Momentum, Anti-Vax brigade were not being agitated and funded by some Putinites deep down in the back of the room.

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago

You know that Palace Putin has on the Black sea ? What are the servants quarters like ?

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago
Reply to  David Steeper

You must work there just in case they run out of toilet roll David

Jonatha
Jonatha
5 months ago

To be honest, it was western leaders deluding themselves with the whole end of history madness the infected the West. Russia has always been Russia and been very clear all along. We in the west have just pissed around the world thinking everyone would just go….ooooohhh liberal democracies your soooo great we love you please rebuild our nation and culture in your image…while not playing a very strait bat….all the while Russia has been getting more pissed off with the west and rearming, while China has been utterly destroying our industrial base with a brilliant Mercantile strategy that has the… Read more »

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonatha

I agree absolutely. Western leaders have a huge culpability for what is unfolding now. They happily indulged in the ‘New World Order’ mileau of the nineties onwards believing that the cold war had been won, that democracy would spread everywhere. Tianamen Square showed that it wouldn’t. The activities of Russia since at least the mid noughties onwards, maybe before show that it has been actively hostile towards the West. I think a recent chief of defence staff described Russian state activities as being in an actual state of war against Britain.

Enobob
Enobob
5 months ago

Supportive bloke, can’t let that go unchallenged! I don’t think that I have ever read a more sensationalist and distorted version of the truth than your post. It is pure conspiracy theory. The West has created this playbook? Nonsense! We have not ‘suspended democracy’ in any way shape or form, we have merely enabled the forces of law and order and the military to tackle a very real and serious threat from extremists, extremists from both right and left, and the religious fanatics. We have handed nothing to the Russians and the Chinese on a plate. Both those nations have… Read more »

Jonatha
Jonatha
5 months ago

With the army I think it needs to be a case of can it be deployed as part of a meaningful 21c battle group or does it support deployment of said battle group, if not it should be gone and the resource put into the formations that do. After all there is very little in the RN, RM or RAF that is not deployable or supports deployment. It also really shows the need for the amphibious forces as these can really make a difference on the balance around the northern flank. agree with the need for the army to focus… Read more »

Graham
Graham
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonatha

A Battlegroup is really a small tactical unit, based on an infantry battalion or armoured regiment, with Atts and Dets. Might be 600 to 800 strong. We can still deploy a number of BGs.

David Barry
David Barry
5 months ago

So you suggest that the Russians are not concerned by the Rīga based Canadian Battlegroup with Czech, Slovak and Polish troops, none of whom have any love for the Rus and love outdoor winter ‘sports’ as much as anyone – they enjoy killing Bear.

Then the American battlegroup in Poland. 10th Mountain not there, but, they won’t turn tail either.

Mr Bear might be having second thoughts but not because of the British. Indeed, given that our Officers have map reading skills only bettered by Liz Truss, they are probably laughing into their Kapusta soup.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago

I thought Chally 3 was funded? We must have had Contract Award.The bad news is that FOC was originally stated as 2030, but MoD has rowed back on that a bit and shaved a few years off. Thus, barely modified 24-year old CR2s are in Estonia or are bound for Estonia. A pity that WCSP was never funded for production years ago, otherwise we would have some cracking good Warriors. I hope those 50-year old Scimitars will do a good job. A pity too that £5Bn of FRES money was taken away from the army years ago (albeit for a… Read more »

John
John
5 months ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

The Wehrmacht had this off to a tee – pull back the troops before the attack. If Russian fires off the Iskanders and big aerial barrage then their troops are not in the positions the Ukrainians will hit with their artillery response.

dave12
dave12
5 months ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Read that Putin pulled his super yacht out of the German port that was its home afraid of sanctions I should suspect , that’s seems like a clear sign to me.

Donaldson
Donaldson
5 months ago

What’s the usual composition of a armoured battlegroup in terms of vehicles?

As we speak ZZ337 RAF Voyager is doing A2A orbits over Constanta, Romania and did so yesterday flying from Akrotiri.

Louis
Louis
5 months ago
Reply to  Donaldson

I’d assume this one has most likely one challenger squadron but possibly two, two warrior companies, an AS90 battery, and probably a squadron of armoured engineers. Hopefully some air defence assets are going with it, probably not land ceptor but maybe a section of stormer HVM is going.

louis
louis
5 months ago
Reply to  Donaldson

After watching the latest forces news video, another RTR squadron is being deployed, as well as 28/143 battery RA, an AS90 battery, and engineers of 26 regiment and of course armoured infantry of the Royal Welsh.

Donaldson
Donaldson
5 months ago
Reply to  louis

I gathered the RTR was already in Estonia being reinforced by the Royal Welsh from Germany, Didn’t see anything about additional units from UK deploying

louis
louis
5 months ago
Reply to  Donaldson

Yes but according to the british army website the first battlegroup consists of D squadron RTR and C company royal welsh, with additional CS and CSS units as well as HQ RTR.
According to forces news the second battlegroup consists of A squadron RTR and HQ royal welsh plus unknow amount of infantry companies, with CS and CSS elements.

farouk
farouk
5 months ago

Meanwhile in Paris:
comment image
This is interesting as the new leaders in Mali (thanks to a Military Coup) have sided with Moscow and last month kicked out the Danish contingent whilst accepting Russian troops. Would be very interesting to see if Moscow played a part in making life untenable for the French (and supporting troops)

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

As I understand it this is Wagner moving in. Groups of ex SF and pars etc, a similar to an Acadami/Blackwater operation.Putin said last week that this was not a Government to Government deal.

I have read that the reason for the changeover is that the Russians have a ‘tougher’ approach than the French, Danish, etc.that has brought results in other countries in that part of the World.

farouk
farouk
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

JIMK wrote:

As I understand it this is Wagner moving in. Groups of ex SF and pars etc, 

yet in Libya. Wagner was exposed (via a left behind Samsung Tablet) to be an unofficial arm of the Russian military

Last edited 5 months ago by farouk
Barry Larking
Barry Larking
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

John in Magnitogorsk has a wife and children to support farouk …

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

Bloody difficult as well it is. Fortunately I’m not RC.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

Much like the US. Its all about deniability.

dave12
dave12
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

I think downing of MH17 , and Salisbury , state funded cheating in sports have been the most recent obvious denials from Russia
in which the US would not swoop that low Ivan, the US cannot get away with too much nowadays due to freedom of the press something Russia does not have , but keep on lord haw hawing more you comment the more it shows.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  dave12

Thanks for your erudite comment Dave, you are keeping me in credid poits. Just spent some and and now enjoying some yummy Tunnocks Milk Chocolate Teacakes, but I’m not sure how Warburtons teacakes can be called the same.

dave12
dave12
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Thats a shame I was hoping you would indulge me with conspiracy theories explaining all though’s Russian examples of blatant denials I mentioned as you seem to be more in tune being a Autocracy fan ,Salisbury a UK gov plot?
loved to hear you Ideas on MH17, and the state drug cheating or is that pushing even your abilities to explain away from the obvious lol, I guess so.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  dave12

Not rising to the bait this time. I could bash out an A4 page on the alternative propaganda to that which you believe but as you have clearly made up your mind and believe our straight and honest Government it would be a waste of both our times.

dave12
dave12
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

LOL yep I didn’t think so, as for our Gov like any is not perfect but our people have freedom of speech and the freedom to have the option to choose more than one leader not like your poster boy Putin’s Russia , I’m sure you can give me shortened versions of your alternate reality of those Russian denials lol.

Last edited 5 months ago by dave12
JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  dave12

Gold * for persistence but no.

farouk
farouk
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

JIMK wrote:

 but I’m not sure how Warburtons teacakes can be called the same.

Its a strange world we live in:
In scotland a teacake is marshmellow covered in chocolate
Across most of the Uk, its a bread roll which contains dried fruit
Where I am from, teacake means a huge plain breadroll.

Last edited 5 months ago by farouk
Gunbuster
Gunbuster
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

A huge plain bread roll is a Bap!

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

The power of the English language. Designed to confuse foreigners.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Wagner, serving mil covertly, ex mil and cannon fodder fuckwits who are the “bang my head against the wall the most makes me the hardest”! Nasty tactics to terrorise the locals they come into contact with in order to archive the aim of, a, further Russian influence and b, compromise any current or previous western efforts in whichever field they are operating in. Wagner make Blackwater in Iraq look like the nicest, kindest professionals you could ever meet!!!!

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

I bow to your superior knowledge, but brutality can pay off in some regimes. Just look at our ally, Saudi Arabia sees headchopping as so valid a form of punishment that they keep doing more of it.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Agreed and on occasion it’s use is sanctioned and encouraged by despot regimes! Let’s however not pretend that Wagner is a military contracted private company, it’s not, and its sanctioned to do whatever it wants/needs as directed by the Kremlin head sheds! At least Saudi cuts heads off in the street, saying it’s the law, while Putin and his criminal gang do it out of view and use third parties. Russia, Saudi, cheeks of the same arse when it comes to Human Rights and Government led murder.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

Yup, there are a few ‘thugs on leads’ operating and some very nasty regimes out there. Some however are authorised as they support the ‘word of US’ if they don’t similar regimes become evil and to be destroyed.

Sad about Assange here in the UK tho’.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Not sure I can quite follow your English over the last 3-4 lines? I’m sure however it’s another effort at demonising the US/West. But we are talking about Wagner here aren’t we?

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

No its the way any Empire operates, ours included. As long as smaller countries toe the line and support the ‘Master’ they can run themselves pretty much as they like. But smaller countries that don’t fall into line, even if internally they operate in similar ways to Empire supporters, are liable to be attacked as evil regimes. Yes, Wagner is, as you say, a prime example.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Agreed but there’s not many on here who will try to justify everything an Empire or leader does, aside from maybe yourself John! Anyway, will have to toddle off, bedtime, early start tomorrow. Cheers

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

Night night

farouk
farouk
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

JIMK wrote: Sad about Assange here in the UK tho’. It never fails to amaze me how the left of the political centre champion Assange, as a of paragon of honesty decency who in their eyes can only be a victim. Yet this is the man who: 1)     Relocated to Sweden in which to step up shop for Wiki leaks which wouldn’t extradite him to the US if they tried, 2)     Who then was accused of sexual assault on not one, but 2 different women 3)     Who then buggered off to London in which to escape the long arm of the Swedish law,… Read more »

Sean
Sean
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

Actually he has been accused by more women globally than the 2 in Sweden.
It seems he likes to father children around the globe by have unprotected sex, consensually or not, and then doing a runner to avoid paternity costs.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

So he is banged up in solitary for years for a possible sex crime in Sweden, that the police withdrew charges on.

When the real crime was exposing USG criminal activities in Iraq.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Now we know you like a bit of Russkie action but your now supporting a nonce sex offender! And there, after a long time of being on the edge as a sad Russkie troll, you now lose any credibility you may have had! Sigh, the lengths some go to in efforts to demonise the west!

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

Boom and once again Farouk shoots and scores!

Sean
Sean
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Seriously, you’re supporting Assange. The guy who probably did most to get Trump elected by publishing all the information hacked by the GRU’s Cozr Bears group?
A guy responsible for multiple deaths in Afghanistan because he wouldn’t redact the names of locals that helped coalition forces?
You have a strange choice of heroes.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  Sean

An ex friend of mine supported him too. That, and being a raging anti British Guardian reader who thought Assange and Snowden as hero’s, the Royal Family c****, and GCHQ as the enemy for their surveillance may have had something to do with him ending up as ex! …..we could talk military and other stuff but otherwise, poles apart!

Sean
Sean
5 months ago

I can see why he’s now “ex”

I’ve experienced the same over the last 2 years with anti-mask/ anti-lockdown/ anti-vax friends. When people are too stupid to understand simple facts its best to jettison them, life’s tough enough without being surrounded by stupidity.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Sean

Never said he was a hero, few in England ever suffer the jail conditions that he is under, without a guilty verdict.

Sean
Sean
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

His jail time is down to him fighting extradition, and he spent far longer imprisoning himself in an embassy trying to avoid justice. It’s his own fault he’s there.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

England or Britain? The confusion between the two does on occasion confuse online bots and trolls! The mask many of us suspected is slipping JohninMK! All can now see and confirm many suspicions!

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

OK I got it wrong, should have written England and Wales. Scotland and N Ireland have their own legal systems, or at least did when I stayed in Edinburgh.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Good effort at extraction from self dug hole, although bit of a weak effort and straw clutching going on.

Johninmk
Johninmk
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

No problem here as I don’t regard myself as being in a hole. At least the rain has stopped here and the sun is out. Glorious day apart from the minor issue of a 72mph wind. I suspect the canal boats at the bottom of the garden, we call it the Grand Union but I think it’s actually the Grand zJunction, are in a shower of dead branches.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  Johninmk

Quick response, good monitoring, let down by the standard practice of look where I live, I know locations, and cathedral spires.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

I am really surprised that you seem to think that just because someone has views contrary to yours that they are an element of an enemy. If so it looks like the conditioning really worked, shame really.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Nothing to do with contrary views, as we all know that is essential for debate. And you will see in many of mine, and other contributors posts criticism of various Governments and actions, and indeed the various PMs themselves. This is not seen in ANY of your posts in regard to Russia and Putin. In fact that lack of criticism and your continued negativity about NATO and the West, speaks volumes about your obvious lack of partiality at best, and your cult like worship of Russia at worst. Sad, as your subject matter knowledge is excellent but let down by… Read more »

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Beheading is an execution pure and simple… oh and its quick.
Is a single bullet in the back of the head paid for by the condemeds family any worse? Lethal Injection? Hanging, Firing squad?

Nice attempt at deflection…

Kayaker
Kayaker
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Apparently from what I read, the French invited Danish Special forces in without consulting the new government. Possibly this sort of behaviour had been tolerated by the previous government but didn’t go down too well with the current one.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Kayaker

I read that too. If the Russians can help stem the flow of northbound people some of whom are destined to provide Dover docks with more boats, all power to them. Its an evil trade, drugs and cigarettes one way and slaves the other.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

But that’s not what they are there to do John is it!

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

Yes it is, its too get rid of all the freelancing traders so that the authorised ones can operate. Also there are a lot of minerals in the area that Russia has a big interest in. I don’t know if you know but all the ex-colonies of France are still financial colonies as their central banks have to operate through the Bank of France. We didn’t do that when our colonies got independence, they had a choice. This is one of if not the key reasons that France was so keen to get shot of Ghaddafi, he was going to… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Ok it’s late to debate but we all know the reasons for the deployment of Russian hard and soft power in Africa. But as we are talking about Wagner, they are a group, fully sanctioned to operate deniable ops on behalf of mother Russia, in various locations in Africa. From the mineral mines you mentioned to supporting whatever organisations and forces the West aren’t! It’s been going on for years, it’s picking back up again and to deny it, and to deny Wagner does make your plausibility as an independent observer a little harder to accept! Cheers.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

No debate needed this time. I concur with your comments on Wagner, you describe the situation well. I didn’t mean to imply other than how you have now put it.

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

I’m not so anti the Wagner group. They provide usefull live fire targets for Western Spec Ops. The US really appreciated having them around in Syria ! We should really send a thank you letter to Putin.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Some real Russki boneheads mate 😂👍!

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

👍

Sean
Sean
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Everyone was knows Wagner Group is the ‘plausible deniability’ branch of the Russian Military, run by Yevgeny Prigozhin on behalf of Putin himself 🤷🏻‍♂️

Joe16
Joe16
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

I’m not sure that Wagner faired all that well in Libya, no matter how tough they were trying to be with the opposition…

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  Joe16

Many are half trained jobless civvies who join to get a paid job, facist attitudes and no brains, backed up by ex mil and commanded by serving Russkie mil!

Joe16
Joe16
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

So not quite as impressive as the “Ex-Spetznaz killers” image that they broadcast!
I was a little surprised that they took such a pasting, even if Turkey was supporting the other side with drones, but maybe I shouldn’t have been…

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  Joe16

Not at all mate, as totally expendable muppets operating on behalf of the Kremlin!

Lordtemplar
Lordtemplar
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

The military junta is Mali is not choosing Wagner because they use tougher tactics than French troops. What Wagner results are you referring to? Syria’s territorial integrity is still chaotic, Lybia is still the same mess as a decade ago etc….
The reason is that the military junta does not care about fighting terrorism anymore. Their primiary concern is staying in power and are unwilling to set up free elections as they had agreed to. Wagner are just hired “bodyguards” to protect their choke on power.

Ron
Ron
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

Morning Farouk, any idea what will happen to the RAF Chinook deployment that was supporting the French in Mali? I seem to remember reading somewhere that we have whirlybirds out there.

Joe16
Joe16
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

They’re not going far though- just over the border to Niger and elsewhere. Apparently neighbouring countries are pretty disappointed that the Malians don’t want the French to stay.
I didn’t know about the Russian/Wagner replacement- interesting development. I think that’s likely just as much because the Western contributing nations were demanding that the military junta hand back power to civilians, while I doubt Russia is as fussed about that!

Rob
Rob
5 months ago

Whilst the above is very welcome it does show how hollowed out our forces have become. If 45 Cmdo is in Poland it can’t be in Norway. If another of our six armoured BGs is in Estonia then there are just 4 left (under the new ORBAT) for further reinforcement or rotation. 4 Typhoons to Akrotiri is a penny packet force and a patrol ship in the Med is of no military value at all other than flying the flag. Now I know we are contributing to an alliance and I know we can’t afford massive forces but this should… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

You’re right. 2% just isn’t enough to maintain nuclear and conventional forces, invest for the future, drive a prosperity agenda and treat its soldiers with respect.

David Flandry
David Flandry
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

So much to agree with there Rob. A total of 140,000 for Army, RAF. and RN is just not enough. Even another 0.5 % of GNP would be around 15 billion USD+. Several thousand(20000 +) troops could be had for that.

Rob
Rob
5 months ago
Reply to  David Flandry

Thanks David. See what the politicians don’t understand is that if their 2% doesn’t deter it is actually a huge amount of money wasted. The defence budget has to be equal to the task. We can see from recent events that it is simply not enough. Germany, France, Italy and Spain need to get with the programme too. To deter Russia we are all going to do our bit.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Yep. But they’re not listening I fear. Money’s going up, but the cuts continue.

Rob
Rob
5 months ago

But Daniele, if the balloon does go up in Ukraine (God I hope it doesn’t) they will just chuffing have to listen. I’m not arguing for massive spending; that breaks the economy and gets us into a spiralling arms race, but we MUST spend enough to meaningfully deter or there is no point.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

I’m in agreement Rob. I have so little faith in our politicians I fear even this they won’t change. No votes in it. And I don’t believe the opposition would be any different, worse in fact.

Mark B
Mark B
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

To increase defence spending significantly which might increase taxes or prevent money going elsewhere needs to be sold to the public – and the public do not understand. Funding is being raised slowly but surely but it is being done quietly. We have to base our deterence for Russia & China on the ability for 30+ countries to contain one or two. We have started re-building the RN and I feel that the RAF and the Army will follow – just not fast enough for my liking.

SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Excellent point and well made.

Graham
Graham
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

The movement of some more forces eastward is political signalling. We are not transitioning to War. Politicos don’t want to spend big money on this as Covid measures cost so much.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Paul.P

That was a Bill by an opposition Party. Putin’s Party, United Russia, also put a Bill forward that is now going for comment in Ministries i.e. the long grass. The latter Bill takes priority but in either case Putin has to sign it and he won’t do that whilst he wants Donbas and Luhansk to remain in Ukraine as a balance under Minsk. Only if Minsk absolutely goes down the drain is he expected to sign it.

Paul.P
Paul.P
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Interesting. Thx.

Nicholas
Nicholas
5 months ago

HMS Trent. Talk about underwhelmin.

Donaldson
Donaldson
5 months ago
Reply to  Nicholas

I recall the arguments months ago that river batch 2 would never be sent into a potential conflict zone.. And here we are..

chris
chris
5 months ago
Reply to  Donaldson

So true!

Pete
Pete
5 months ago
Reply to  Donaldson

Spot on …and yet it wouldn’t take much to upgrade a couple of them to being useful gulf escorts freeing off the Type 23 from that role. Add a 40mm and a brimstone launch cannisters or add CAMM container.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
5 months ago
Reply to  Pete

Agreed. Something that would go bang and make a large hole. How difficult can it be?

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago

It will be interesting to see after this is over (if it kicks off or not) to see if the politicians go back to the usual stance of continued indifference to the armed forces or if after the reliance on the armed forces over the Covid period and now with the realization that after years of cutbacks the armed forces are not fit for purpose they will actually start to build on their mistakes, One can only hope.

grizzler
grizzler
5 months ago

I think we all know the answer to that one- I’m hoping they will at least have a choice .

David_s
David_s
5 months ago

I am very proud of the people in the armed forces – but look at these numbers….and in reality look at the entire numbers of our armed forces; if there was an existential threat to the UK we could not justify even 1 soldier, sailor or airmen deployed overseas, we don’t have enough to defend our island, let alone lend help to our neighbours. How have we let this happen? In the 1920 the doctrine was we were 10 years away from a major war, and this idea was renewed and in full force right up until 1938/9. Look at… Read more »

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  David_s

The problem is that our leaders, all across Europe, have a very different view of the risk of Russia attacking us from most here and I have to say that for the last 30 years they have been correct.

David_s
David_s
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

That does raise an interesting point – I’ve been saying for a few years now the China went a little bit early with their overtly bellicose behaviour, if they’d kept their powder dry for a few years, even the US would have been making cut backs and they would have been unstoppable. China is a big challenge, but at least we have become aware of it before it is too late. Russia on the other hand, may have timed this just right, although not playing nice, they have picked away and seen the defence cuts still being made and feeble… Read more »

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  David_s

My memory might be failing but I thought it was Trump that went for China with his package of measures intended to encourage more manufacturers back to the US. It is also US activity (particularly in semiconductors and Huawai) that is stirring up the Taiwan situation. The Chinese regard it as part of China and have been in no hurry to reestablish control as they plan in decades as opposed to the next election. As you say, Russia isn’t playing nice but it does have a strategic objective behind all this and that is to feel secure on its western… Read more »

farouk
farouk
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

JIMK wrote: It is also US activity (particularly in semiconductors and Huawai) that is stirring up the Taiwan situation. Actually it isn’t Taiwan has been an ongoing bunfight since Dec 1949 when Chiang Kai-shek backed into a corner by the CCP crossed over to the Island of Taiwan with 2 million soldiers. The CCP then launched the battle of Battle of Kinmen Island just off the coast of China but held by the nationalists . the CCOP failed to take it losing 4000 men, in the process, which resulted in halting any move towards Taiwan. Since 1949 there have been… Read more »

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

Thanks but that was 60 years ago. I stand by the US stiring it up and China having a long term view, unless someone does something stupid and forces them to act.

farouk
farouk
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Whilst it was 60 years ago, Taiwan is still unfinished business, and to the oriental mind, loss of face is everything. Also in the greater scheme of things taking Taiwan would allow China to claim disputed areas and grab more of the surrounding area, The reason why China has been kicking off of late is due to how until recently Taiwan held the technical edge regards weaponry, it is only of late, that the mainland has fielded aircraft such as the J10, J22 and such its modern day navy is also relatively new , meaning that not only have they… Read more »

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

Thank you for going to the effort, fascinating. China is not an area I know much about, I just pick up bits in passing.

Meirion X
Meirion X
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

“…The Chinese regard it(Taiwan)
as part of China…”
It is absurd that a island(Taiwan) 96 miles offshore of China should be considered to belong to China.
If you believe that is so, do you also believe that the island of Britain should be part of France, of only being 22 miles across the Channel?

Last edited 5 months ago by Meirion X
JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Meirion X

It may be absurd but prior to Japan and WW2 there was one China, but since 1955 there are two. Taiwan is not a recognised country in the UN and does not have currently, as I understand it, diplomatic relations with the UN, US, UK, UK etc. Since 1949 China has claimed it as a province but has no administrative control over it. How it pans out over time goodness knows.

Distance is no problem for sovereignty, ask the French, they have regions not just in France but all round the World.

Tams
Tams
5 months ago
Reply to  David_s

China are facing massive domestic issues. Most of all, they can’t (and haven’t) maintain such large economic growth. So Xi and Co. likely felt that they had to act when they did to keep the patriotism strong. And they need a lot of that as bellies can only go hungry for so long.

And for Xi himself, he had to act within two terms or very likely face getting replaced like his predecessors were.

Pete
Pete
5 months ago
Reply to  Tams

There has also been some maritime law academic papers published recently looking at the validity of china’s claim to the south China Sea. There is a strong argument presented that China may indeed have historic title to the SCS reinforced by allied decisions at the end of WWII. The papers also argue however that it is the government in Taiwan that may have the stronger claim given they are the successors of the regime in power when the allies reaffirmed Chinese administration after WWII. The increased tempo of PRC pressure on Taiwan might be about forcing a unification before Taiwan… Read more »

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

The Salisbury and Litvinenko poisonings suggest otherwise.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  David_s

I agree with your sentiment. But you do realise an army of 100,000 infantry would give us an army of over 1 million? Infantry only ever make up a small part of an army, supporting CS and CSS the rest.

David_s
David_s
5 months ago

I acknowledge the sentiment of that I was probably using the figures and nomenclature a little more broadly – so if you look at the current army is is somewhere less that 80,000 with 1/4 of them being ‘infantry’; the thrust of my point is to send fully functioning and at least to an extent self sufficient units (divisions and corps rather than companies). The 350 quoted currently, I have no doubt there is support on top of that…or if not it makes our numbers even worse, we send troops that take up the logistics that are already there, couple… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  David_s

Understood.

Divisions and Corps! Long, long gone David.
I’d be happy if we had 4 fully equipped deployable brigades. ( we don’t )

Esteban
Esteban
5 months ago

It is a sad state of affairs indeed.

louis
louis
5 months ago

Even in the eighties there was only one Corps, as there is now, only the current one has no frontline units assigned to it. The ARRC would be in a good place, with the DRSBCT, signal, logistics, medical and engineer units, if only proper combat units could be assigned. Also in future soldier 4 brigades should be fully equipped and deployable, hopefully in the future 4th LBCT can be made into a fully regular unit brigade. Quick question, will SFAB battalions still be the same size as other light infantry battalions or will they be decreased in size. Normally I… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  louis

Morning Louis. Yes, ARRC is more of a skeleton formation, with allied combat units assigned in war. It already has a Signal Brigade ( 1 Signal Bde, but without many of its components ) and Logistics provided by Yes, Future Soldier 12,20,7,16 BCT have most of their component CS/CSS. Agreed, 4 BCT is a mess, purely for PR reasons is it a “BCT” SFAB battalions I believe reduce in the same way that their predecessor battalions in the SIG “Specialist Infantry Group” reduced. SIG carried out the same role even though that formations units now go on into the S… Read more »

Louis
Louis
5 months ago

So effectively the Irish guards cannot do public duties on its own. It’s a shame given the fact public duties battalions have been reduced to one at a time, but I guess when the Irish guards do public duties, if they do it, another battalion will be needed. With regards to 4th brigade, it is really not that hard to get the CS/CSS required for it. Reactivate 3 medical regiment, stop 3 logistics reg disbanding and a new REME battalion. If 39 reg was reactivated, 3 reg could go back to 4LBCT. Effectively this calls to stop two regiments disbanding,… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  Louis

So, you too have noticed 3 CS Reg RLC vanishes from the ORBAT! It should be retained and either put in 4 as you suggest or used as dedicated RLC regiment for DRSBCT. Who exactly provides the GMLRS regiments with their pallets?
Yes, if 4 BCT is mainly a light infantry formation the REME support will be reduced so a battalion may not be required.

Good to see someone else on the forum knows their ORBAT. 👍

Louis
Louis
5 months ago

I guess the integral supply platoons support the GMLRS regiments with 101 OSB supporting second and third line logistics.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  Louis

Yes I guess so.

Louis
Louis
5 months ago

Of course it’s less good than a specific regiments, I believe 8 regiment RLC was disbanded only ten years ago.
Army 2010 most effected CS/CSS, before that there were 7 brigades plus the commandos each with REME, RLC, engineers, artillery and medical regiments integral with the logistics brigades having a further three regiments each.
The irony is we are moving into BCT operations, however messed up it is, whilst the US is moving out of them and into divisional and Corps level formations to fight a peer enemy.

Louis
Louis
5 months ago

On a side note, I think that the creation of the DRSBCT is actually a good thing and is innovative. It has the ability to support a Corps sized formation and the only things that I would do to change it would be to add an infantry and a logistics battalion and take away the close support artillery regiments.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  Louis

As long as it is deployable! I don’t personally think it is that innovative, as it is basically a DAG, such existed in BAOR and in the first gulf war. To me it exists out of desperation, as when we were having 2 Armoured and 2 Strike Brigades it was just 1 Artillery Bde, and administrative formation. Where else do they put 2 Ajax regiments orphaned by cuts. However, it intrigues me to see how it works for real, and getting Ajax and its ISTARs suite going is essential. Agree re supports, I saw none in the FS ORBAT for… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago

I must have got distracted, noticed I did not finish my sentence!? 😮
It already has a Signal Brigade ( 1 Signal Bde, but without many of its components ) and Logistics provided by the ARRC Logistics Battalion. ( Gurkhas )”

Louis
Louis
5 months ago

I believe 104 TSB is assigned to it anyway. The new 9 REME battalion is interesting and it is good to know that there is at least one third line logistics regiment. The reductions to the Mercians are ghastly. It was only a few years ago when there were 3 active battalions.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  Louis

Morning.

Yes, 104 is assigned to the ARRC. But a recent change.
I found moving 104 to the ARRC curious myself, as it has out of area expeditionary elements like 17 PMR and 29 PCMR, while to me the ARRC is NATO / eastern Europe centric.

I knew of a 9 REME but had to check my research, as could not remember anything else on it without checking.
From my understanding it will be a Theatre Support Battalion forming in Aldershot in 25, and part of 104.
No idea of its component companies.

Graham
Graham
5 months ago
Reply to  Louis

A REME battalion is not a logistics regiment as that is an RLC unit.

Louis
Louis
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham

I understand that, I was referring to a the new 9 REME battalion, after which I referred to 9 regiment RLC.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago
Reply to  Louis

Thanks Louis. I mis-read your post.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  David_s

I don’t think many people have been murdered on the streets of Salisbury as you put it. One woman died, possibly from contacting the poison at home, not many and not on a street. There is still no inquest on the subject to test the validity of the claims. That the UK let all those Russians back in after such a short time might speak volumes as to what actually happened, deep in both Governments they know the truth, they just don’t want to tell the plebs.

David_s
David_s
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Oh OK Ivan we’ll play Sophistry with the definition of words. In most countries if you cause someone’s death in the commission of a crime that is murder, but whether it be murder or manslaughter (do you see the portmanteau there ‘man’ and ‘SLAUGHTER’? “But but but the person was a woman! Aha I vin for the greater glory of all the Soviet people!”) And ‘died at home’ not in the street, just read that back. You’re the type of barrackroom lawyer who contests a speeding ticket with nonsense like “Your honour, the word ‘speed’ is derived from the Old… Read more »

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  David_s

I was countering what you wrote which was wrong. So rather than say you were wrong you attack me. Was anything I actually wrote incorrect? Apart from Dawn Sturgess who died in hospital not at home?

Sean
Sean
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

While your pro-Putin conspire theories are usually most amusing for the degree of imagination required in your part… your dismissiveness over the killing of an innocent women by incompetent Russian agents and their irresponsible use of nerve agents is a deplorable low, even for a Putin supporter to stoop to.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Sean

OK so you believe the word of our Government. Good for you. I’d rather see the case examined openly in a Coroner’s court but for an unknown reason that is not being allowed. Some might accept that but to me it is suspicious if there is nothing to hide.

Sean
Sean
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Not necessarily, but I don’t invent conspiracy theories to use the deaths of innocents to push my politics.
The international OPCW identified the poison as Novichok, which has only ever been manufactured in one place, Russia. The coroner delayed at the request of the CPS because of the ongoing police investigation against the 2 Russian agents responsible.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

We see similar in anti terrorist cases though, John.

Sources and methods of the security service and the SIS, where intelligence came from, how it was obtained, and so forth, is often withheld.

Potential enemies, be they state actors or terrorists, must not work out methods.

Which is why that Snowden is a traitorous b******.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago

Not sure why it should apply to Dawn Sturgess.

Meirion X
Meirion X
5 months ago

I agree Daniele.

Tams
Tams
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

You watched that video and believed they really did go to see the 123m spire, didn’t you?

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Tams

I don’t have a clue why they were there and the reason is classified. All else is conjecture.

Pete
Pete
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

If they went to see a cathedral the reason wouldn’t be ‘classified’.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Oh dear it’s getting a little obvious John, methinks a change of avatar, writing style and subjects matter specialisation, it’s what most trolls do when caught out.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

I’ll stay as I am thanks.

Cripes
Cripes
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Your consistent championing of Putin and Russian actions is becoming rather tedious Johninmk. You come across as a better-educated poster, with better English language training, than the horde of GRU shrills who daily wage a web war on the West in the ghastly Sputnik and similar cyber war tools. But your arguments are essentially the same, they reflect what puppet master Lavrov said last. No objection to you putting the enemy’s viewpoint, but it becomes tiring reading this constant stream of Russian propaganda from you. A little goes a long way, you are overdoing it, take some time off and… Read more »

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
5 months ago
Reply to  Cripes

👍

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  Cripes

Agreed and spot on! Contrary to what they think, over a sustained period of time even subtle trolls and bots get clocked. It’s easy if you know what to look for.

JohninMK
JohninMK
5 months ago
Reply to  Cripes

Sorry, don’t play golf but i do work on my Vauxhall Cavaliers tho’.

SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve
5 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

In response to this comment I would like use quote from Game of Thrones;

‘There’s no cure for being a c**t’ – Bronn

Cripes
Cripes
5 months ago

True, the infantry is generally about 25% of the trained army.

Martin
Martin
5 months ago

Sending Trent into a potentially hot war zone is exactly what OPV’s are not designed for. What use could Trent possibly be. More of a liability than anything else. It’s like the fleet of bullet catchers sent to the Falklands. Does the RN ever match threat with capability or just send what ever it has available.

farouk
farouk
5 months ago
Reply to  Martin

Martin wrote: Sending Trent into a potentially hot war zone is exactly what OPV’s are not designed for. What use could Trent possibly be. I think its all to do with the Montreux Convention a 1936 agreement that gives Turkey control over the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime, and restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. Which are: Non-Black-Sea powers willing to send a vessel must notify Turkey 15 days prior of their sought passing, while Black Sea… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

Well expressed

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
5 months ago
Reply to  Martin

The RN Fleet Headquarters knows what every units Operational Capability is down to individual systems . That includes defects on systems and if those defects affect overall OC. It sends units to do jobs where their OC matches what is needed. A UK RN Warship sailing in International waters in the Eastern med is not going to be attacked by Russia, if it was it would be an instant gloves off Article 5. For all we know it could be fitted with a load of CT kit, is hoovering up emissions and uploading them directly via satcom to the UK… Read more »

Armchair Admiral
Armchair Admiral
5 months ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Ah, GB. Every post a gem and rooted in fact. Such good stuff to be reading for a mere amateur like myself…and a few others…
AA

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

👋👋

Cripes
Cripes
5 months ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Of course, it’s equally possible that it doesn’t have any such sigint or sneaky-beak kit fitted – when was there time to install that? – and has been sent into harm’s way because we had nothing else immediately available!

Farouk’s good exposition of the Montreux Convention may well explain why we are sending a minor warship, but we have to hope that it is not there with its one deck gun simply to show the flag.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
5 months ago
Reply to  Cripes

That’s true it may not have any sneeky stuff fitted but most RN units have the ubiquitous FFBNW. For a lot of CT stuff it uses the existing aerial fits. The good stuff is below decks and is connected into existing cable and aerial runs when needed.

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

And again the invaluable contribution goes to GB! However my thoughts along similar lines..,

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago

In Dollar terms we have the 3rd largest defence budget in the world. Only the US and China spend more on defence than we do. When you look at what each of the Services brings to the table do you think they are doing a good or bad job.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
5 months ago
Reply to  David Steeper

You have to factor in purchasing power as well. While you can compare potential for foreign purchases of equipment and munitions quite easily Its bad to think just in dollar terms as wages for servicemen and the cost of feeding, housing and otherwise looking after them differ hugely between countries.

chris
chris
5 months ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

You must also consider the world record RN quagmire, the type 45 program. A fleet which has known faults for 12 years, and still isn’t fixed. They must hold the record for days tied up.

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  chris

Yes and the Army and the RAF. When you compare with other comparable countries that spend far less are you impressed with what we get for ourmoney ?

David Lloyd
David Lloyd
5 months ago
Reply to  chris

The MoD is paying off another two frigates this year, the money “saved” will undoubtedly be used to help fix the T45’s propulsion issue. They were not designed to be disassembled to the extent necessary to effect repairs and the yard at Birkenhead is relatively inexperienced with work of this nature.

Undoubtedly, the 12 year delay in fixing this particluar cock-up has much to do with allowing the people involved in design decisions taken 15 years ago to finish their careers and retire. Without suffering any consequences.

Rock on Geoff Hoon

Matt
Matt
5 months ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Ah my former MP.

Geoff “the complete” Hoon.

I love that hoon is Australian for goon.

Meirion X
Meirion X
5 months ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

“The MoD is paying off another two frigates this year…”
One, HMS Argyll has had her life
extended for a further two years. HMS Montrose is due back from the Gulf later this year and most likely be retired. Argyll and Lancaster have both LIFEX in the past 5 years.

Last edited 5 months ago by Meirion X
David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Yeah PPP affects about 50% of the UK budget but not the other 50%.In comparison with much poorer countries it underestimates there spending but in comparison with countries like US and Geramny it overestimatrs it. Our budget is still huge and my point about what we get for our money is still important.4-

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Yeah pay, pensions and housing account for about half our budget. The rest is equipment which PPP has no effect on. I say again when you look at what each of the services provides for the money spent I can’t believe anyone would not have serious questions to ask them.-

David Lloyd
David Lloyd
5 months ago

The UK is doubling the number of personnel in Estonia and sending additional equipment, including tanks and armoured fighting vehicles”

Which tanks (Challenger II?) and which AFVs (Warrior?) are we asking our lads to go into harms way with? Has the ammunition issue for the new Challenger 3 smoothbore 120mm gun been resolved?

David Steeper
David Steeper
5 months ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Yep. Challenger 2 and Warrior.

Steve
Steve
5 months ago

What we are deploying is a token force at best. What interests me, and we will have to wait 40 years to find out, is how the conversation went with Boris and co. Did they ask for more to he deployed and did the army say this is all they could deploy in a hurry. The army needs significant investment to help it deal with its equipment upgrades without having to constantly cut numbers. The government needs to find a way to provide some short term top up funds, since long term increases in % is polictcially unviable. Also the… Read more »

Last edited 5 months ago by Steve
Graham
Graham
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve

We are not going to war as Ukraine is non- NATO. These forces are being moved eastwards as political signalling.

Steve
Steve
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham

For sure we are not going to war over Ukraine, but not significantly strengthening the NATO border following the invasion, would be admitting the treaty has no value, and would permanently destroy any economic value NATO countries get out of being in it

Cymbeline
Cymbeline
5 months ago
Tom Keane
Tom Keane
5 months ago

British military reinforcing Eastern Europe amid Russian tensions… To be totally honest here, why is the UK even bothering with token gestures, especially feeble ones likes these?

Graham
Graham
5 months ago
Reply to  Tom Keane

That is the nature of politics and diplomacy. We are not transitioning to War.

Tom Keane
Tom Keane
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham

No??

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago
Reply to  Tom Keane

Ukraine is non-NATO. Even if Russia did a full-on invasion then NATO has no remit to go to aid Ukraine ie to join the war. The West responds with sanctions, which get progressively tougher. Some more NATO troops are sent to Poland and the Baltics for gesture signalling and to reassure those host countries that they will not also suffer Russian invasion. Do you think differently? If we were transitioning to major war, I would be recalled to the Colours, the Reserve Army would be mobilised, the Jubilee would be cancelled, service leave would be cancelled, tens of thousands of… Read more »

Tom Keane
Tom Keane
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Anyway… Britain should have kept its nose out from the very start.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago
Reply to  Tom Keane

Tom, Perhaps the obvious sometimes needs to be pointed out as some think we (UK/NATO) are going to war against Russia.

We have a history of aiding the underdog (Belgium in WW1, Poland in WW2, South Korea in 1950, Kuwait in Gulf War 1). It is our sense of right and wrong. Would you rather we had not sent 2,000 NLAWs and a training team to Ukraine – and imposed economic sanctions against Russia?

Tom Keane
Tom Keane
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

All useless token gestures! Putin will now do whatever he wants with Ukraine. NATO and the rest of the world baulked at doing anything meaningful. They mouthed off, but achieved nothing. Now the Ukrainian people will once again, suffer the effect of autocratic power, being inflicted upon them, while the west stood by and did nothing! NATO has finally lost whatever credibility it had left. Russia is in charge in Europe now, and that will never change, unless there is all out war in Europe. After seeing how weak the west is, give it a year or so, and China… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago
Reply to  Tom Keane

How has NATO lost credibility? Article 5 did not apply as Ukraine is non-NATO, so NATO had no Charter remit to go to war against Russia. NATO has reinforced its eFP forces in Poland and the 3 Baltic states, and many NATO memebrs sent military equipment and trainers to Ukraine in thelast few months. NATO has done all it can.

Tom Keane
Tom Keane
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Tell that to the dead! Putin Has been planning this for more than 8 years now.

The Oligarchs and banks have had 8+ years to prepare for this.

And Nato cites article 5, to keep Russia from turning on them as well.

As I said at the start… the world has known, NATO has also known that this was coming for 8 years. It has done nothing to prevent death and human suffering.