The incident occurred 40km east of Dublin on September 12, 1989 when an Irish trawler, the MV Contestor, snagged the towed array sonar of a Royal Navy submarine.

Irish media recently reported that Britain attempted to claim ‘state immunity’ after the incident to recover the submarine’s valuable towed array sonar, which detached after snagging in the nets of the Irish fishing trawler.

According to Independent.ie, Irish officials raised serious concerns over the incident with the British authorities as it came less than a decade after an Irish trawler sank after an incident with a British submarine.

The trawler’s owner also commenced legal action for salvage under the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894 – with the buoy snagged in its nets (what turned out to be the submarine’s towed array sonar) being retained by the Irish authorities “until payment is made for salvage”.

You can read more on the specifics here.

The timeline of events

  • In 1989, an Irish fishing boat called the MV Contestor snagged on a submerged object in the Irish Sea
  • The object turned out to be a towed sonar array from a Royal Navy attack submarine
  • The fishing boat was subsequently dragged backwards for 1.6km before breaking free
  • The incident occurred less than a decade after another Irish fishing boat sank in an incident involving a British submarine
  • The skipper of the MV Contestor, Sean Daly, began legal action for salvage under the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, and the Irish authorities retained the buoy until payment was made for salvage
  • The following year, the British government attempted to claim state immunity in an attempt to recover the towed sonar array and avoid litigation
  • Irish officials did not offer specific advice on the matter, but suggested that an agreed settlement would be preferable to litigation.

What is state immunity?

State immunity is a principle of international law that protects a sovereign state or its organs (such as government agencies) from being sued in the courts of another state without its consent. It is based on the idea that sovereign states are equal and sovereign, and that one state should not be able to exercise jurisdiction over another state or its organs without the latter’s consent.

The principle of state immunity is reflected in various international conventions, such as the European Convention on State Immunity and the United Nations Convention on Jurisdictional Immunities of States and Their Property.

There are some exceptions to the principle of state immunity. For example, states may waive their immunity and consent to be sued in the courts of another state. In addition, the principle of state immunity does not apply to certain types of cases, such as cases involving commercial transactions or human rights abuses. Finally, the principle of state immunity may not apply to cases involving the property of a state that is used for commercial purposes, rather than for sovereign or public functions.

What is a towed array sonar?

A towed array sonar is a type of underwater acoustic sensor deployed from a ship or submarine and “towed” behind it as it moves through the water.

The purpose of a towed array sonar is to detect and track underwater objects, such as other ships, submarines, and mines. The hydrophones on the array pick up sounds from the surrounding water, and the data is transmitted back to the tow vessel through the cable. The tow vessel can then use this information to detect and classify the objects, and to determine their location and movement.

Towed array sonars are used by navies and other military organisations for a variety of purposes, including submarine warfare, mine countermeasures, and intelligence gathering.

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George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Fen Tiger
Fen Tiger
1 year ago

Why is this being dragged up?

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Fen Tiger

It’s totally not click bate 😀

Con
Con
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Or trawling for likes 😁

Fen Tiger
Fen Tiger
1 year ago
Reply to  Fen Tiger

Congrats. to Sioban’!

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  Fen Tiger

It’s end of the year, that means State Papers are released from previous years.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Fen Tiger

Looks like the media trawling for news at a quiet time 😚😚

PGS
PGS
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Nail on the head. A lot of websites go ‘quiet’ in the Xmas New yr. period we are now exiting (January blues here I come) for the perfectly reasonable reasons that contributor’s to the same want some down time.

Con
Con
1 year ago
Reply to  Fen Tiger

I bet that’s what the skipper of the trawler said 🙂 The answer is it just became public knowledge as a part of the regular and periodic release, or declassification of Irish state files

Mr M Timms
Mr M Timms
1 year ago
Reply to  Fen Tiger

Absolutely, ( it’s a shame but these things happen in land/sea/and Air)( Accidents do happen and they must work together remembering it was not deliberately And no lives were lost on this occasion, remember that this submarine was on secret mission?)( This will be resolved eventually, Just glad it was not a Russian Submarine I know what the Answer would be and the last word finishers with ( OFF)

David Lloyd
David Lloyd
1 year ago

OT Those interested in military history may enjoy re-considering the Battle of Hastings in 1066. The received wisdom is that the battle was fought on 14th October at the site now occupied by Battle Abbey. Unfortunately, other than tradition, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the battle was fought at the Abbey and when the archaeological TV series Time Team was asked to investigate the site, they found nothing. A new analysis of the contemporary records, the famous Bayeux Tapestry and a close examination of the ground in East Sussex by two military historians shows conclusively that the battle… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Very Interesting, we had friends in Sedlescombe and they maintained the same opinion.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Mate have a look at Nick Austin and the SOTNI YouTube programmes. Excellent research, great investigative work, ground appreciation and common bloody sense if you were moving heavy armoured men and horses on foot. Have a look mate, think you would like the investigation and none conformist thought process. Once I watched them all it’s absolutely in your face obvious about the location of the landings, movement and battle locations!!! Cheers mate.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Well, I’m nights this week so what better time! Youtube here we come.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

It will set you thinking 👍👍 Enjoy!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Mid way through 2nd one as we speak.
I’m sold already.
Crowhurst. The ditch. The hill. The topography. The ruin beneath found on radar, possibly original Abbey.The location of the old London rd. The obvious fallacy of landing at Pevensey when the coast then differed and an army would have to detour round where’s landing in the inlet have them multiple landing locations.

Luckily I’ve never spent good money with English Heritage at the Battle site as seemingly there’s not a shred of evidence it happened there.

I’d not seen these, the research makes sense to me, at least.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago

And to muddy the waters further.

Momentous Britain on Battle of Hastings alternative battlefield candidates

Finds faults with Austin’s theory.
Fascinating stuff.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Need some time to read and digest and look deeper! Great stuff 👍

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Lots of good stuff and very convincing mate, although there will always be other ideas and locations! Even time team did one about the battle location and while Nick Austin disagreed with some of the time team findings, time team at least thought the EH site was wrong, and it was in fact nearby on a mini roundabout though cannot remember the exact location. They even did a topographic recce for the dates and agreed Pevensey may have been wrong also! Cheers

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Do you know of an Austin SOTNI type on YT for B of Watling Street?

That is where my main interest lies regards historical stuff. Paulinus, Agricola, love it.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago

Having looked, there is little on YT, and with the limited historical record of Tacitus and Dio to go on it is a tough nut to crack. This is the best I find.

Stalking Boudicca Part I – Finding the Battle of Watling Street – YouTube

Apologies for OT.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Never OT when it comes to history mate 👍

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Agreed mate, finding that battle site would be top notch. As you mate my main historical interest remains Roman Britain, but the so called dark ages and the Anglo Saxon period is fascinating stuff also.

David Lloyd
David Lloyd
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Having corresponded with one of the authors (Jonathan Starkey) of the Sedlescombe book, I can report that recent archaeological excavations in one of the deep fosses (ditches) in Killingan Wood have been undertaken. Possible Saxon era strap ends, Norman era horseshoes with calkins and a double footplate stirrup were found and are being examined by professional archaeologists.

There is a lot of information in the Momentous Britain Sedlescombe website and it takes a while to go through. But Jonathan Starkey will answer emails and is delighted if anyone shows an interest!

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Had a quick look at momentous Britain, lots of info, time required to read but as always history is sooooo interesting and so full of surprises!!!!!👍

russell s thomas
russell s thomas
1 year ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

This is interesting stuff , last year I was hooked on the very plausible Utube vjds providing evidence for the battle taking place near at Crowhurst . With the Norman’s landing west of Hastings in a now mostly dried up inlet. The terrain matches historical accounts very well it seems . It was all bought up because the council decided to build an A road accross the battlefield 🙂

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Nick Austin and SOTNI? Brilliant mate!

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Agreed, some excellent research by Nick Austin and the SOTNI (secrets of the Northern invasion) in regards to the Norman landing location and battle! All are in the wrong place, most certainly the landings claimed to be at Pevensey! He overlays the coast/landscape at the time and it shows even week one crow 2Lts at Sandhurst would never have even thought of landing at Pevensey bay! Some great YouTube programmes, well researched, thought out and excellent ground appreciation from the air, maps etc of the actual battle! Cheers mate.

russell s thomas
russell s thomas
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Yes the amateur team did an excellent job collecting the information and it certainly trumps English Heritages version though they do briefly mention Crowhurst on their website. I keep meaning to walk the area as there are plenty footpaths from the inlet upto Crowhurst to get a good appreciation of area , cheers 🙂

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

It will never be the official version unless solid archeological evidence appears as EH are on to a good money spinner with the Battle Abbey site! Cheers.

Bulkhead
Bulkhead
1 year ago

I don’t know the whole story, fishing boats know where all the SM exercise areas are and it’s there choice to fish there. Yes a SM will go where it want’s when patrol, so don’t all go shouting at me😎

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Bulkhead

It happened to several Scottish boats as well, the problem was solved however by the conservative government when it decided to massively reduce the SSN fleet to just 7 and gut the fishing fleet as well. There is now very little chance a British submarine could ever meet a British fishing boat. 😀

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Oh Jim, the one sided old party politics again. Some balance and perspective please.

Quote from Navy Lookout.

The RN has stated it needs at least 8 Astutes but by 2005 it was clear that the government would only fund 7 boats.”

Have a look at the reduction from 12 to just 7 SSN ( Hoon vowed 8 ) firstly 1997 SDSR and then 2004 New Chapter SDSR and see just who presided over that. Clue, it was not the Tories.

With the escalated costs and delays and Successor already coming the force could not be increased short term even if they wanted to.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

The Torys have been in charge of the defence budget for 32 years out of the Last 43 years so any number of SSN’s and fishing boats is almost entirely as a result of their policy. Also it was entirely the Tories who choose to delay SSN successor program in the 90’s and nothing to do with labour, these decisions were all taken years before labour had any power. The contract for Astute was signed 6 weeks before labour took office so can you please explain to me how the delayed it or took decisions to reduce Astute build. It… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

“The Torys have been in charge of the defence budget for 32 years out of the Last 43 years so any number of SSN’s and fishing boats is almost entirely as a result of their policy” Irrelevant as the still large armed forces inherited by Labour in 1997 were reduced by Labour 97 to 2010, a point I keep making in an effort for balance. “The contract for Astute was signed 6 weeks before labour took office so can you please explain to me how the delayed it or took decisions to reduce Astute build.” See my post above “but… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Spot on mate 👍

Matt C
Matt C
1 year ago

You tell him.

Nicholas
Nicholas
1 year ago

A graphical view (unspun)of figures available to the public.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Nicholas

V interesting chart. Some things that jump out at me are first how much it dropped in the late 80s even in Cold War years and second the continued decline till 2004 SDSR New Chapter and then from 2006-7 onwards the gradual rise when Des Brown announced the Carriers and (I recall) a 7 billion boost, despite the ongoing cuts to kit. Same is happening now, budget going up but cuts continue. Unlike many I’m not against the OD budget, it is how it is spent that I believe could be improved. Soft Power is a useful tool and that… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Agreed mate! The OD budget is essentially a tool (or should be) to help those who help us! A few million of soft power can prevent a few Billion of hard power 👍

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Nicholas

Defence spending isn’t a priority. If u spend half as much you get less than half as much kit and manpower as you still have all the general stuff to fund. It will only get worse without a permanent change of direction. The Government need to make a policy for direction. What can the U.K. do on its own in alliance etc. I would take numbers and mission capabilities from SDR 98 as a starting point and have up-to 10 years to reach that. Funding will have to be increased to achieve that. Army may struggle with numbers so use… Read more »

Bulkhead
Bulkhead
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Er,😎
joining the EU took out the british fishing fleet

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Bulkhead

Yes, exactly and the accession treaty was sign by one Ted Heath, so I think it is very fair to say the Tory’s got rid of the fishing boats and the SSN’s

BlueMoonday
BlueMoonday
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

You’re on fire today Jim 😂

Jokes aside, if such a similar incident were to occur today between the same protagonists, would the fallout be any different?

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  BlueMoonday

Probably a more mixed result, things are quite as hostile as back in the 80s.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago

Why the boat got dragged backwards for over a mile without dumping its net? If I was on a fishing boat and I’m getting dragged backwards I’m dumping the net pretty quickly.

James
James
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Exactly its either Jaws direct relative or a Sub, either which way cut and run!!

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Hi monkey. The nets are secured to the fishing vessels by very strong steal cables, that even under normal fishing are held under extreme tension, (a parting cable can easily kill you, it’s one of the hazards of fishing). When a 700 tonne fishing vessel is being towed backwards at 10 knots against its engines those cables will be under a stupid level of tension, you just cut it or it parts that energy is going to come right back at you and cut you half, so it’s very very difficult evolution even if your not being dragged by the… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Ahh so no quick release on the nets or able to let it run out. The tension in those cables is frightening.

Darren
Darren
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Have you seen the film ghost ship 🚢

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Darren

I think so a long time ago I remember it was a bit naff.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I do wonder how the sub sonar didn’t notice it, especially as they were caught to the actual sonar.

BlueMoonday
BlueMoonday
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I’m pretty sure if they could of, they would of, as I doubt the trawler was enjoying the whole experience that much!

Lewcee42
Lewcee42
1 year ago

The question still has not been answered – “Why bring this up now?”

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  Lewcee42

It’s end of the year, which means State Papers are being released, hence this story. Why it rated an article is another question.

Chris
Chris
1 year ago
Reply to  Lewcee42

Recently declassified state papers in Ireland showed that the UK government tried to claim ‘Sovereign/State Immunity’ to recover part of a towed array sonar caught in the trawlers net. From the Independent.ie article it was stated that the UK Gov felt it better for ‘all’ if there was a direct agreement between the UK Embassy in Dublin and the trawler captain. For better or worse, this is newsworthy in Ireland.

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris

It’s the end of the year pretty much anything in the State Papers gets coverage, this year there’s this, there’s tensions between the Government and the President, there’s diplomatic gossip from London, there’s Haughey complaining about the condition of two gifted horses that he got.

It’s not anything to be worked up about, it’s just the papers having easy stories during the period when most of their staff are still on holidays.

I’m just surprised that it’s this rather than the attempts to get permission for landing Nimrods that George went with.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago

The reason it is probably coming up is that the papers have been released under the 30 year rule? Under FOI there is a general principle that all government papers are automatically opened unless there is a pressing reason to close them. There are actually quite a few WWII papers that are still closed, however! Some of them under the old 75 year rule from the Lord Chancellor’s department. In all fairness if you ask the National Archive to review the closure they will generally open them. The National Archive don’t have the resources to go through everything themselves and… Read more »

David Lloyd
David Lloyd
1 year ago

Nah its the Irish republicans trying to whip up some antiBritish sentiment after the RAF was defending their airspace against Russian bombers earlier this year. And after the RN was monitoring the Russian fleet on exercises off their coast.
Or it might be that Biden has just appointed one of the dead Kennedy’s as “Speciall Envoy” to the Ulster Protestants

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Or it’s just the annual “State Papers” day where Ireland and the UK release time sealed documents… It’s not a new event or anything special but if you want to take the hump with it fair enough.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago

They like to protect people and their embarrassing mistakes until they’re dead?

Even this does not apply to some of the papers I’ve read of being withheld way after they could have been released!

The FCO has its files at Hanslope Park and they won’t release many of those either.

A veritable treasure trove for the researcher.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago

That is why the old joke is that The Official Secrets Act is to protect the officials and not the secrets.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago

👍

Tomartyr
Tomartyr
1 year ago

Do salvage rights really apply to something attached to someone else’s boat?

I definitely think the fishing vessel should have been compensated for losses and damages but claiming salvage after being dragged by it seems blatantly dishonest.

Ancient history now anyway.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago

1/ Was this in international waters?
2/ Can a submerged SSN even detect it has snagged a net and is dragging a
fishing boat? Relatively light compared to the sub.
3/ Timing? What is the politics behind this. I think we know.
4/ Shit happens, sometimes? If answer to Q1 is that it was in Irish waters then
this obviously does not apply.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago

The rn changed its procedures in 1997 due to the Antares. The process they have now is to reduce that chance of the fishing boat being dragged under. This does make it a bit pointless dragging this specific incident up as it predates the learning from Antares. From the incidents that navy’s have reported on and participated in it’s always clear that the sub knows when it gets tangled as hitting a net makes a lot of hull noise. The big problem is that even western navies tend to be very very poor in complying with and supporting investigations and… Read more »

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Nobody is “dragging it up”, it’s just the end of year “State Papers” release.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark

Ummmm the news agency has published an article on it….so they have “dragged” it up it up and highlighted it for their own ends ( which for a news agency is to increase or titivate their readers interest. if it was just part of the state papers release that’s one thing, but IIN is an independent news agency not a state publication so they were bringing it up.

I used the word “dragged” specificity as a double entendre….it’s called being funny.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathan
Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The Irish media cover pretty much everything that’s released in the State Papers, from this to the UK asking for access to landing rights, to Haughey complaining about the quality of a couple of gifted horses that he got…

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Thanks J, Antares, I was not aware of this.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago

Hi Daniele, link to the official report on the sinking and learning.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/54c1127c40f0b6158d00001b/MAIBReport_AntaresHMSTrenchant-1992.pdf

it was interesting as it happened during a perisher.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Thanks, ohh during a Perisher too! Crikey.

R Smith
R Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The Antares was Nov 90. Trust me on that.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  R Smith

Hi R, I was talking about the publication year of the full report and learning, that was published in 1997.

Deep32
Deep32
1 year ago

Much of this used to occur when SMs are in transit, often to or from Faslane. Sometimes via the Irish Sea, sometimes West of Ireland, depending on destination. It’s also the reason SMs stopped participating in the Thursday war off Portland in the late 80s, to many close calls for comfort. They were then pushed out into the SFXAs, well past Lands end. Although EX JW is held in the Minch but is a declared exercise area, you still get FV trying their luck!l UK SMs do stay out of a countries 12 mile limit when transiting dived, so are… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Deep32

Ah, just the man. Thanks Deep. Exactly, to my mind the way this is reported sometimes it’s as if the real beef is that the sub is even there, and it has every right to be. Accidents happen. The issue also seems to be officialdoms initial response to deflect and deny.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Deep32

Mate the earlier (?) one where some fishermen drowned, strangely enough the captain at the time (Macdonald) was my young best mates older brother! The facts have gone grey in the drift of time, was it a perisher course, not sure, but after the enquiry he was posted to a desk job in Gib! I know you can’t say much mate but have I misremembered this or was he bluffing! Not sure but I remember the incident even as a young (ish) whipper snapper! But like I’ve always said, very strange job you boys have down there, probably one of… Read more »

Deep32
Deep32
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Hi mate, not sure about that one, if it was early 80’s as suggested, had only just joined the RN and was busy doing all sorts in N & S Atlantic at the time. Certainly doesn’t ring any bells with me, although a lot of said incidents were never really reported in those days, denial was the word of the day, especially if the nets came loose and nothing more serious happened!! Reading some of the comments, there is a lot of misconception about how and why this can happen. A lot depends on the type of trawl being used,… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Deep32

Superb info deep, many thanks.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 year ago
Reply to  Deep32

Dont trawlers now have pingers on the nets now? I vaguely remember some agreement between the RN and trawler operators to fit them so the subs could identify where they are and avoid them. Obviously an issue for non-RN Boats and foreign trawlers but you choose your branch you take your chance.

Deep32
Deep32
1 year ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Yes mate, post Antares they are required to have them fitted to all UK registered FVs. Unfortunately there are/where a lot of non UK vessels fishing in UK waters. Believe that Post Brexit there still are, but not as many as pre Brexit, so the opportunity for this to occur is still reasonably high.

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 year ago

As its so long ago, how was it resolved or are we still waiting to get the sonar back?

Mark
Mark
1 year ago

I’m surprised George went with this one and not the UK trying to get landing rights for patrols at the same time…

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark

Patrols Mark? Please enlighten me?

Mark
Mark
1 year ago

During the period it seems the U.K. was asking for permission to base an aircraft for “spotting” patrols for drug smuggling along with permission for British ships to operate out of Cobh for the same duties. There was an offer to allow Irish officers to ride along but it was Completely tone deaf given the security issues and was refused.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark

Oh, fascinating I was unaware of that.

Thank you.

Mark
Mark
1 year ago

One of the many bits released by the archives, not really sure why it was being pushed, it would have been a major target whether it was in Cork or Shannon.

Nobby
Nobby
1 year ago

I am a bit confused about a bouy on a towed a-ray. As they don’t have a bouy on the end. On the end of a drog yes but not a a-ray. .

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago
Reply to  Nobby

Perhaps it is a recover buoy..?

Sometime ago I had an interesting exchange with SB as a result of an article where one of our boats was pictured alongside in Gib. They were apparently fitting the array…

Submarine towed arrays are ‘attached’ to the sub prior to sailing and then ‘dropped’ by the sub as it approaches harbour. The latter evolution requires some means of identifying where the array is on the sea bed, so I guess a buoy is part of the recovery system.

Cheers CR

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
1 year ago

The trawler that sank a decade earlier had traces of titanium on its hauling wires. Which country uses titanium on the hulls of its submarines? Why do British submarines hunt the Irish Sea? In the Irish Republic there is always one, and only one, villain.

Last edited 1 year ago by Barry Larking
Laurence 'GreenReaper' Parry
Laurence 'GreenReaper' Parry
1 year ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

Pretty sure Russia isn’t afraid to drop by. Of course they were threatening to nuke the UK from the other side, so Ireland is more collateral damage.

Jack The Lad
Jack The Lad
1 year ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

The Irish Sea doesn’t wholly belong to the ROI.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
1 year ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

I think you are referring to the FV Gaul a Hull based vessel which was pulled astern at 10+ knots until the engine rooms flooded then she was pull underwater with the loss of all hands it was thourght at the time that it was a Russian sub which was responcible for the incident but of cause the Russians much like today denied any involvement.

Andrew Munro
Andrew Munro
1 year ago

How much did trawler owners get?

Mark
Mark
1 year ago

In other submarine related news from the archives, looks like the Dutch considered trying to use Ireland to build subs for Taiwan in the 90s as well after China reacted to them supplying a couple in the 80s. Never went anywhere due to Foreign policy issues but would have been a hell of a sight when I was growing up to see Cobh building subs.

Mickey
Mickey
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark

The Dutch want the new Irish MRV to be built by them based on recent articles. The design based on the HNMLS Karel Doorman

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  Mickey

The idea of using Cobh for assembling subs for Taiwan long predates that but there’s always been a bit of interest from Dutch companies, Damen have sniffed around in the past at the site as well. As for the MRV, while yes the Dutch aren’t even being subtle about wanting the contract (that’s two years running the Doorman has made port visits), it’s not likely to be anything based on that design, even without being more ship than the Navy needs it would need huge investment to sustain it, or using a non state dockyard for her. What I’ve heard… Read more »

Mickey
Mickey
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark

Very interesting.

Is there a link anywhere about this ‘crossover’?

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  Mickey

Here’s the product range: https://www.damen.com/vessels/defence-and-security/crossovers?view=models
Either the logistics variant or the amphib one would likely be the option for the MRV, though if they were very ambitious they might be hoping for more than one order as the P50 hulls are aging out faster than planned.

The other main contender seems to be the Vard 7 313 design from what has been talked about:
https://vardmarine.com/gallery/vard-7-313/
Though who would build it is another question.

Mickey
Mickey
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark

Looks like your links came through after all.😀

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  Mickey

I had posted links to it but seems they were deleted by the mods, you can just search for the “Damen Crossover” and you should see the specs of the range, same for the other likely option the Vard 7 313.

Mickey
Mickey
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark

Thanks for the info i have done so.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark

Just had a quick look at the Crossover options.

Interesting concept, but at 4500tons for the smallest version that is a lot bigger than the existing vessels, largest of which are the Samuel Beckett class at 2,256tons. It would be good to see Eire acquire such a capable ship, although I think they would have to work hard to solve their manning issues as well…

Cheers CR

Mark
Mark
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

It depends, I mean the Becketts are themselves over twice the tonnage of the P20 class they replaced. When the MRV project started so long ago it was the Absalon class that was envisioned for example. The major restrain is the width which is limited by the existing dock infrastructure. Put another way the Navy has finally got funding to start a 120m berth at the base. Given he midlife refit of the P50s has discovered they are wearing out quicker than planned, if I had my way I’d go with 3 of the Crossovers but that isn’t likely sadly.… Read more »