British aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales and her jets have been operating in Vest Fjorden in the Arctic Circle.
The image above shows F-35 Lightning jets of 617 Squadron landing back on the carrier at sunset, after a day of sorties, participating in Exercise JOINT WARRIOR.
According to the Ministry of Defence:
“Exercise JOINT WARRIOR is a UK led exercise, which is part of the wider NATO Exercise STEADFAST DEFENDER. Exercise STEADFAST DEFENDER 2024 is the largest NATO exercise in decades. NATO forces will be exercising across multiple regions and in multiple domains (maritime, land, air, space, and cyber).
The vast scale of this exercise will occur over several months and over thousands of kilometres and will involve tens-of-thousands of Allied troops, all showcasing NATO capabilities to deter adversaries and defend allied territory. The fifth-generation F-35B stealth aircraft flew from their home base of RAF Marham, Norfolk, to the North Sea on Monday 19th February 2024.”
The aircraft, capable of fulfilling air-to-air and air-to-ground roles as well as intelligence gathering and electronic warfare, are now under the command of the UK Carrier Strike Group who are also afloat on HMS Prince of Wales.
Good to see but where are the rest? We have thirty available aircraft but only one squadron of eight to be shared between two carriers and the RAF. In war we would be done in a week. Two delivered last year and deliveries overall delayed again so the 2025 target now in doubt..again. Talk now is about havig two squadrons available by 2028 ‘ish. So 16 aircraft in 14 years. No further orders placed so 2035 if they arrive at all? Anybody who is thinking of telling me that there is plenty of time please look around the world first.
Oh no…. You just had to mention that….😂
It’s fine, there is no threat and 8 F35’s are worth thousands of Rusky Migs…. and it was never envisaged having both carriers fully loaded, they just built the two so that one can be used as spares…. It’s true, I read it all on here. 😏
Hi mate. As far as I’m concerned,, they were never going to, beyond an Admirals fantasies and enthusiasts wet dreams, given how HMG treats the military. I recall the initial speculation, plans called for 4 F35 Sqns. Where was the airgroup coming from in 2007 when these started build when we had 2 Sea Harrier Sqns being cut, and 3 Harrier GR9 Sqns about to go the same way being removed by the Brown and Cameron governments? Who forms the airgroup in the interim until F35 existed? It was as unrealistic as 250 Eurofighters for the RAF. I see zero… Read more »
Absolutely Daniele. I’m so fed up with this pretence of a government whether Labour or Conservative that we are safe in their hands. They rely on the good will and professionalism of a magnificent military. If recent events over the last couple of years hasn’t shifted this lackadaisical attitude towards the military, what would? All of them except for a few defend UK military.
Cheers
George
Mate, you know we have had this conversation many times over the years…It’s pretty much the only subject that we disagree about. I’m only being Sarky about it nowadays though as i’m resigned to the fact we will never get to see a full load…. It’s just that whilst I agree with you and understand the historical facts, I can’t help questioning just why they were ever built so big with such a capacity and Two of them ………. It’s a bit like a Buying a Double Decker Bus just to drive to work.. As for Typhoon (and Tornado before… Read more »
Do we disagree though? I’m against cuts as is the next person. I try to see the positives and other factors as to why this particular situation with F35 rate is happening. No, I don’t think 70 Typhoon is enough, for a P5 G7 power like the UK. But clearly neither is the Russian bear enough vs Ukraine, given the planes they’re losing and the lack of professionalism and know how they’re displaying, so. You missed my question on what would you do. Me, I’d do exactly as HMG are doing regards build rate until costs reduce and block 4… Read more »
I didn’t miss it, I just sort of side stepped it and maybe we don’t disagree but we do come from different angles….. I deffo agree we need to focus more on actual potential threats though… as you know, I’m a huge Merlin Fan and i was agog at the axing of Nimrod and the ten year gap…. Bigger concerns are Fleet numbers even given the current build programme…. Merlin will need replacing too at some point, I just fear that the next bunch of Clowns will just be as bad as all the previous ones.
I’m going to say something and I’m probably going to get hammered left and right over this, but here goes. We built 2 very capable and comparatively cheap Carriers, they are big, adaptable and have 35/40 years left in them. But at present we are struggling to field any worthwhile CAG due to the continuing LM shenanigans over the pond with the F35 and in our case the F35B. IMHO opinion someone should identify which feather headed idiot decided not to just build CATOBAR from the start and behead him/her/they. There is no planned replacement for this in any project… Read more »
Good morning Frank, Damen’s MPSS 7000 design and the larger MPSS 9000 look very interesting, particularly for the launch of drones. It said in a press release that it has specifically developed the 107 m MPSS for the Portuguese Navy’s requirement for a “truly multi-purpose vessel” designed for oceanic research, search-and-rescue, emergency relief, and naval support operations. Most notably, it is specifically designed to operate unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) as well as a helicopter from a 91×11 m flight deck, with two lifts to the UAV hangar deck located at the front of its superstructure and the helicopter hangar at… Read more »
Portuguese Navy signs contract with Damen Shipyards for innovative Multi-Purpose Vessel
Courtesy Of EDR On-Line
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/portuguese-navy-signs-contract-with-damen-shipyards-for-innovative-multi-purpose-vessel
Our other six carriers are stealth carriers, so don’t show up in open sources or photos!
Likewise our main strike wing of 72 F35x are cloaked.😃
The treasury can’t cut them if they can’t find them-cunning plan Baldrick.
The other side to that argument is the more we buy of the current tranche means more planes to spend millions upgrading later to decent spec to use British weapons and have more capabilities
Exactly that. The delay is frustrating, but would be worse in the long run if we had to bring active squadron jets offline for upgrades later on.
It’s a balancing act though – I’d rather have jets which need a software patch than no jets at all. One goes to war with what one has at the time.
True. I guess HMG are privy to a lot more than we are as to whether war really is imminent or many years away, if at all.
They then, on military advice, make that call, while prioritising the NHS, education, benefits, and tax cuts!! 😆
You guess wrong , have you ever met MPs ..I have as part of a previous job . Thick as a brick and clueless the vast majority are ..HMG are not privy to much ..
I don’t guess wrong at all Jason. We are part of the UKUSA agreement and our intelligence community, SS, SIS, GCHQ, DI, co operate hand in glove with the US Intelligence community and also with AUS, CAN, NZ. The product of that goes to the armed forces and to government via the JIC and other channels. Whether MPs are thick or not, ( Diane Abbott ) they are briefed, so can make decisions. So they are privy to information. I’m talking about ministers not just MPs. What they do with that, or not, is for them. Considering the PM is… Read more »
👍
That I certainly agree with. That said, it’s not simply a software patch- it’s quite a significant amount of hardware too- central processor, the DAS system, a bunch of the wiring (I think), and potentially more. We’d have to ship them back to the States for heavy re-work, and would likely take months. As Daniele says below, the MOD will have a better grasp on this, but I don’t see war as imminent; I see our need to prepare for a war as critical, because of the lag between getting industry etc. rolling and it being ready is 2-3 years… Read more »
Agreed..lead times do not allow for enemies and nutters.. Putin..to allow us politely to rearm!…cut the NHS budget which is nearly as high as the Chinese defence budget!..no point in having Education/Health..if you are blown to bits!!!
Absolutely back in the day we use to wait till new platforms were available before retiring the old . Do we have to get Harriers back of the US Marine corps or out of museums to make numbers up 🤗 but really no laughing matter 😞 I don’t know how we’ve got so bad on Defence decisions over the year’s 🙄
Good morning Andrew D, I posted this recently, you might find it interesting. Congressional Budget Office Phillip L. Swagel Director February 2023 At a Glance In April 2022, the Congressional Budget Office published Availability and Use of F-35 Fighter Aircraft. That report used data through September 2021, the last month of fiscal year 2021. This update incorporates data for fiscal year 2022 and employs CBO’s recently developed approach for measuring the effects of ageing on aircraft. Availability and Use in Fiscal Year 2022. In 2022, F-35Cs’ availability and flying hours per aircraft exceeded those of F-35As and F-35Bs. F-35Cs’ availability increased in 2022;… Read more »
Pissing on the F-35 again comrade
Looks to me like Phillip L Swagell Director of the Congressional Budget Office is tbh.
Thanks mate real interesting post 👍 🍺
7 delivered last year. The 2nd frontline sqn has formed and is now working up. There are plans to deploy 24 jets in 2025. Over 500 F35s will be in service across EU air arms by 2030. Not including US aircraft. That is a huge deterrent against Russia or any other threat. We wouldn’t be finished in a week. I don’t know how you think conflicts work. You and many others just focus on the simple numbers in front of you. And forget about NATO or how any other conflicts have been operated over the last 30 years. Its not… Read more »
Good morning Geoff, do we have thirty available UK F-35Bs? It would be very interesting to know what the actual figure is.
Feb 2024
“For the 12-month period ending in September 2023, the F-35 fleet managed to achieve only a 51% average monthly availability rate: Only half of the 628 F-35s delivered to the Department of Defense were ready to perform at any given time during fiscal year 2023.27″
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24409147-fy2023-dote-f-35-annual-report#document/p6/a2429919
Morning Geoffrey. Where are the rest? 31 aircraft. 8 deployed. 3 in the OEU in the US. Assume up to 12 in the OCU. might be less. So 8 left, in maintenance, spare, and so on. 809 NAS has just stood up. When any military has x number of asset not all are deployed, that’s not how any military works save war. If QEC sailed to war tomorrow, and not am exercise she would have more and the usual procedure goes to the wall. Examples, Invincible carriers got more Harriers in 82 rather than 6, or 8. As for the… Read more »
Nicely put Daniele.
Hi DM
I do think the sharp end of the RAF has become way to soft though. The retirement of the Typhoon Tranche 1 leaves me uneasy. I believe they airframes haven’t reached 50% of their hours, seems an awful waste of taxpayers cash.
Still I know I’m preaching to the congregation on this ! 😉
I get that they are too expensive to update and it’s uneconomical.
But for God’s sake order another batch to replace them.
Amen to that!
We have 50 Apache and nearly 60 chinooks to operate off the deck not to mention MH2 and mk4, does the lack of Apaches and other helos not come up. It’s not a strike carrier is a floating FOB, it carries the air group it needs for the mission. USN ARG are still operating harrier, most CVN’s can’t operate F35C yet. Why is it just the UK that’s has to magically operate dozens of 5th Gen aircraft on day one to be a “proper” navy. Go count the number rafales on CDG on the occasions she is at see. We… Read more »
Spot on mate 👍
Agree.
“Day one” was 7 years ago…. Here we are some 2555 days later and we have 8…… I got to admire your lack of thinking at times. 🙄
nicely put Jim!
We might have to wait a while Geoff. International F-35 Customers, Your Airplanes Will Be Delayed “Without the additional test assets and with slips in the delivery schedule for Block 4/TR-3 capabilities, Lockheed Martin’s aircraft delivery schedule appears to be impacted. While that has implications for the U.S. military, it remains logically at the head of the line. Lockheed’s latest foreign customers may not be. How much of a delay particular customers may face is unknown, probably by Lockheed itself, but the company did not argue the point that F-35s will not be delivered on time in some cases. I… Read more »
I share your concerns of course but delays and problems with the F35 is a very dangerous thing to say here.😉. Given the problems we are having now and the likelihood that there will be no more money forthcoming we desperately need some joine up thinking. Call me a heretic but I’ve always believed that defence policy should follow foreign policy. In other words we decide what we want to do and then buy the equipment to get the job done. We haven’t done this for decades, but we are going to have to do it very soon.
Agreed!
Chris H would have been all over this….. Wonder where he went ? 🤔
Shows you’re an old timer mate with that name from the past.
Lol…. He was as prolific as Jim !!!! 😄
There is a huge unknown over F35 delivery this year. Lockheed revealed much in their corporate statement. For me left a whole lot out. Ambiguous to so the least. In third quarter they expect to resume delivering. By then they say there could be as many 120 parked up at Fort Worth.Again though they are not saying where the are keeping them. The 21 outstanding from last year will be in that number. They figure at the moment is around high sixties awaiting the upgrade. Lockhead chairman also stated a maximum of 110 will be delivered in 2024. We have… Read more »
7 delivered to the UK last year. As planned.
I think something like 94 delivered world wide in 2023. 7 as you say to UK
Two questions how many are we supposed to get this year.
How many will we get. For my money the answer to the last question is none.
Only five of the seven delivered last year due to the delay of the TR3 upgrade not sorted out on the block 15 onwards. Four more due this year so hopefully it means it will be six to get back on track and then the last seven next year. That will make it to the 48 of the first trench -1 that was lost off QE
I don’t think we will get any this year . No delivery to anybody until Q3 this year. So possibly July onwards. By Lockheeds own forecast. DOD hitting them with 7 million dollar per plane for late delivery. Which explains the 400 million provision in their earnings forecast. Which is why I say we have to hope Lockheed do the decent thing and do delivery fairly. Money and DOD pressure may see US designated air frames prioritised. Our two are part of the 21 at Fort Worth held back from last year. A chance we might see them before Christmas.… Read more »
I’m in a tendency to agree with you. Let’s hope LM get a grip and get things sorted and we might be very lucky and get at least the the over due and maybe by a miracle a second two, after all we are teir 1 partners so should be fist in the quew behind the USMC 🤞
You would like to hope. I guess it’s a case of who sets the priorities. Only two possible inputs from what I can see. LM and DOD. Not sure we will be consulted.
I think you’ll find that there were only five (ZM165 – ZM169) block 13’s & 14’s. The other two block 15’s have the TR3 upgrade and they are still unavailable to anyone until at least May/June
They will be worth the wait. 👍
Devils advocate here ( again ) I went on Northern Merger a few times. Dispersed Harriers all over the shop. Now is there a lesson to be learned? I openly admit these carriers, to me and others, are an expensive hobby. And, unreliable so far. Surely for our theatre of operations, with the kit we have ( not dream about ) dispersal of these, erm, “advanced” jets is just as effective as having a fat target at sea in what are really Nato waters. I think it rolls into the arguments raging about being realistic about our role in the… Read more »
Lot of truth in there John, even if I don’t agree with all of it. They were built as power projection assets for expeditionary ops beyond Europe that we so often get involved with which other European nations rarely do. The Pacific thing is primarily about trade, AUKUS, GCAP, and so on. There is no “tilt” as BJ said militarily as beyond 2 more OPV we have the same assets out there as we have had for decades. Other European powers within NATO have carriers too. France, Italy for example. It is not the carrier at fault but how you… Read more »
Appreciate your views Daniele, you always make me think. I see the point in Spain and Italy going for a smaller vessel. It suits their needs. Maybe that is what is behind my thinking, something Invincible size would seem to suit us better now imo. I am not a fan of Doris or any politician to be honest. They have screwed around with our capabilities for decades and left some appalling capability gaps. One sad but beneficial result of Ukraine is that it has focussed European thinking again. In reality The Bear never went away, it was in slumber. At… Read more »
Neither am I! From 97 to now our forces have been decimated. No question that we lack capability, a logistic tail, professionalism, or ability. We lack mass, and as you say some gapped capabilities. Until the general public take defence more seriously, which I doubt they will, or the military get defeated somewhere, then the politicians won’t change. And look at the populace. Those who lived through wars are passing on. My generation who lived through the Cold War are aware. Younger generations who did not see these things I doubt have such awareness. And why should they if the… Read more »
Truth in every word there. I fear also for the strong probability of serious civil unrest here. The population is becoming polarised more every year. As for the “imports”? It is happening Europe wide and Putin will facilitate that and weaponize it. NI showed us that when brought in as a policing method, troops soon become a symbol of hate for the very people they were brought in to protect. I would hate to see British soldiers ever put in that position again. There are some really good “aware” younger people. Sadly as you point out, there is a majority… Read more »
Hell Danielle- Happy Friday mate. I think your analysis is very much on point. I probably sound like an old F**t, but being now 60 I feel reasonably well experienced to express my concerns. It seems the selfless sacrifice of the older generation in WW2 is relegated to the dusty pages oh history. Most (but not all) of the younger generation seem self obsessed, fixated on gratification. They attempt to offset with some sense of “social justice” and gabbling on about the climate crisis. All of this hypocrisy amidst their consumption of resources ( consumer crap) than we ever did… Read more »
Hi Chris mate.
I agree. My father was a migrant too. Difference is he could not come here unless he had a job already offered.
Most are economic migrants but the left scream race at any peep of objection at the number.
So people keep quiet, and the resentment grows.
cheers Bud have a good weekend!👌
However sound minded the decision seems on the surface, waiting for Tranche 4 updates is a convenient excuse for the Treasury. This government simply refuses to allocate sufficient budgets for the tasks it asks the three branches to carry out. Strategic decision making in Whitehall when it comes to defence is f*cking atrocious. It does not exist. Every defence review carried out since 2010 has been a ‘what do we need to cut to get within this budget’ fiasco, as opposed to ‘what do we want our armed forces to be capable of’. Then allocating sufficient funding and strategic procurement… Read more »
Good idea – me too!
Good rant Weston, succinctly covering most issues affecting Defense. The mentality of “Defense doesn’t win votes” has to stop. Defense really needs ring-fencing but whether this means managed by a cross-party committee, I’m not sure that would work but, whoever manages defense matters needs to have your comment “what do we want our armed forces to be capable of” as the overall objective that needs meeting.
Excellent rant mate.
Sorry but I’m not going to reply to all individually, mainly because I can sum up with most saying as expected ” No,rush, plenty for an exercise, we don’t want to spend money updating, and so on”. I do get angry with this I’m afraid. It’s a bit like John Wayne saying “I’ve got one bullet in my gun to stop this gang of baddies but that’s okay. I don’t suppose I’ll need two”🙃
That is an extremely simplified view of a very technical subject Geoff. We are not the US Navy. And you are massively underestimating the capability of F35 and the carrier as a whole. We are not going to put 36 jets on the carrier everytime it leaves the wall just to keep people like you happy. Did you moan when we only put 8 sea Harriers to sea for an exercise? or because social media wasn’t around then, you didn’t know about it. More F35s are coming. You know full well the reasons why the slow delivery rate. This is… Read more »
I’m sorry Robert but I am not going to stop “ranting” as you put it because if I do stop demanding the best for our services I might as well not comment at all. I respect your right to reply, of course but you are giving me the same excuses as you were giving me four years ago and I have stated my argument against them ad nauseum. Meanwhile we move forward at a snail’s pace.
And I get the same narrow-minded reply, Geoff. You, like some others, are just obsessed with numbers. And don’t take account of capability gains. We have the world’s most advanced and capable 5th gen fast jet on the planet operating from our Carrier’s. The numbers are increasing. We operate a tailored air group. We will not deploy 24 or 36 F35s every time the carrier deploys, even if we had 150 F35B’s in service today. Those 8 F35B’s will generate a very impressive sortie rate. And provide 5th gen capability across the full spectrum of capabilities. I will repeat. Its… Read more »
Oh Robert. why is it that you can’t have an exchange of words without reverting to abuse One minute I’m “ranting”, now I’m “narrow minded”, soon apparently I will be “moaning” . Through all this you have but one argument and that is “everything is fine” Well, I’m afraid things are not alright, otherwise we wouldn’t be constantly reading articles like the ones in UKDJ today saying they are not.
I am very aware that not everything is fine, Geoff, especially with recruitment and retention. But you will find exactly the same problems facing Armed Force’s across the EU and the US. So it isn’t just a British problem like you like to make out. The days of having 20 + fast jet sqns are over. There is a huge amount of good news in defence. But bad news sells, I’m afraid and creates comments. If you could spend just one afternoon watching operations on that flight deck of POW, you would come away with a far greater understanding of… Read more »
“Reading UKDJ articles, you would think this was a new thing. The reality is that we have been doing this for years”, eh?
Because its clear some haven’t been following defence news outside of your website for many years. Many of the things that get criticism today. Have been going on for years, mainly because social media wasn’t reporting every move our Armed Force’s make. Like the cries of national outrage and general doom when a technical fault hits one of the carrier’s. The Invincible class had many many breakdowns, late departures, and had to return home early for deployments ect. Same with Nimitz class, same with the french CDG. But people didn’t hear about it then. Now it’s makes headline news like… Read more »
I’m sorry Robert. Although I read your post but all thoughts of discussion vanished when I read the phrase “same problems facing armed forces across the EU and US”. How many times do I have to explain to you that I am not interested, nor am I able, to comment on whether of not Greece has trouble with a tank. I am intested in ensuring as best I can in the armed forces of MY country and it’s personnel getting the best equipment as quickly as possible. As I have said to you often if we cannot comment on these… Read more »
Sorry…rushing to type. Her Majesty’s Royal Navy.🙄
It does matter. Because it gives context that it isn’t just a British problem. Because people are never happier when they are doing us down.
“people are never happier when they are doing us down” You actually believe that? Why?
Because it’s a British disease Geoff. Look at the articles. A bad news story. 100+ comments. Good news story. 10 or less comments. I apologise for my manner at times Geoff. I know you do mean well.
There is a lot of rubbish in the papers I agree. I’m amazed at the lack of even basic knowleldge, especially in papers like the Telegraph. Very often wall to wall nonsense.. I appreciate your comment Robert. I don’t believe I have ever consciuosly attacked our armed forces and certainly not the personnel who literally put their life on the line on our behalf. I hope that you will take that into account. Hypocricy and stupidity, particularly from the likes of Politicians and civil servants does wind me.
John Wayne was an actor, the men and women out on the Prince of Wales are professional military personnel, trained to be the best and sadly in worst case scenario don’t get a 2nd chance restarting from a mistake. We have too few but we need to cheer on the few that we have rather than criticise their capabilty shortcomings, royal navy, royal air force and British army still among the best.
I thought JW was real. Was he in films then?
Hadn’t finished. Tell me where in the last four years of my posts I have in any way ctiticized our service personnel. It’s because I ceare that all this complaceny gives me the hump.🐫
Think most brits would love to see our Armed Forces be strengthened but the cowards in government sooner spend the cash on chasing dreams, we shudda kept the harriers running till F35 were at full strength, how long that’s gonna take is anybodies guess, pretty sad really hang your head in shame prime minister 😢