Essentially the Carrier Strike Group consists of the carrier, the escorts, support vessels and, when applicable associated land-based aircraft. In terms of the UK carrier group, the exact configuration will be tailored to the mission.
That said, whenever one of the carriers deploys, it is likely to be escorted by a number of frigates as part of the anti-submarine defence layer, destroyers for defence air and potentially an integrated submarine for longer-range surveillance and protection. There are also a number of other supporting elements that will play a part. Any future Carrier Strike Group could be accompanied by one of the future fleet support ships as well as a Tide-class tanker to replenish stores of food and ammunition as well as fuel, water and anything else required for a long deployment.
An aircraft carrier will take aircraft to where you need them to operate them – with the added benefit that the ship remains UK sovereign territory and that it can carry everything needed to sustain its aircraft for weeks or months on end. The process of preparing for HMS Queen Elizabeth’s first operational deployment in 2021 is progressing across a broad front. Everything from the base, the equipment and the people.
Based at Portsmouth, the Carrier Strike Group staff is taking shape. With a team of about 70 specialists – predominantly officers with a few senior ratings in the mix. Together they cover a broad spectrum of maritime expertise. There are fighter pilots, helicopter aircrew, logisticians, warfare officers, submariners, intelligence and cyber and communications specialists.
The staff is built around three core functions – operations, information warfare and logistics – but what makes the Carrier Strike Group special is the addition of a strike warfare cell with fixed-wing, helicopter and submarine expertise. This cell generates the strike DNA that flows right through the staff, giving it a focus on strike operations.
if we created a proper sovereign strike group – there wont be much of the navy left for anything else
if the u.k was to field a carrier battle group along the lines of a u.s group it would use 13 of the navy’s 19 strong surface fleet, and thats assuming; a tanker/support ship 1 or two t45, 1 or 2 type 26’s, an astute, maybe a couple of t23’s and 31’s in a diamond formation
here’s one for you all, imagine the panic if her maj decided she would like to review the fleet, headless chickens everywhere!!especially when she asks ‘phillip where are all our ships? are we in the wrong place?!
90 F35 missions a day sustained over 5 days was the ambition back in 2004.
Wonder what the ambition is now?
The same, but with USMC F-35s.
And what if the US decides it doesn’t want to support the UK in any proposed military action?
Or are we completely subservient to the US?
Well, not completely. But I struggle to think of a Ist day Iraq style high intensity carrier strike scenario we would do alone.
If we were to undertake a Falklands type operation would be we be able to carry that out without US support? In my opinion probably not.
Which is ok, but people need to understand that is the situation. We no longer have the capability to undertake independent global operations.
one for all, one nato member attacked, all join in
no we are blind poodles who will follow the u.s whenever they want endorsement for their latest conquest.
didn’t see the .s in1982 so much for the ‘all for one’ then? nobody from the grand alliance turned up to support us then did they?
the u.k should swallow its pride and do what the rest of the world does, buy warships from abroad.the u.s has 12 oliver perry guided missile frigates in a reserve inactive naval ship facility in philadelphia, due to the u.s. suffering financial cut backs and fleet reductions, due to these ships being in such good condition, they are being considered for reactivation. the u.k should get a ‘mates rate’ to purchase perhaps 6 of these, as a stopgap whil the t26′ are built.if it was not in need of a near 500 crew then the purchase of a retiring ticondaroga… Read more »
OHPs are 1960 technology and having worked on one recently that was sold by the USA to a friendly nation …they are old, worn out and unreliable in the extreme.
Ticos are 1970s technology and compared to modern warships a liability. They don’t even have an NBCD citadel.
an indoor citadel is easy to make or incorporate into a ship without one best compartment seals, high power air filtration, upper deck wash high pressure ventilation for forcing out existing interior air supply to increase inside pressure when i was in the navy,(unlike many armchair admirals on the site) the task of maintaining the citadel system, was done by a couple of basic grade engineers, as for technology, the ticondarogas were designed for, and used as carrier escorts, a task they have performed well they have the aegis system, tomahawk, which is about the prerequisite needs for the modern… Read more »
if they are so out of date, why are so many still in service around the world?
maybe we should look to get our ex type 22’s still in use in chile, romania and brazil back again upgrade them with current technology and they could be redesignated as.
Gents, I think we are far closer to success than many believe. We will be able to pull together an EU/NATO carrier strike group and even a sovereign strike group or two (at a push). The key for me is that the RN needs to re-organise around 6 Groups or Squadrons. 2 Carrier Battle and 4 Battle Groups. As per my posts on the UKDF as a whole – the 2 CBG’s will project our expeditionary capability and we are there or there about on that – it should be 1 on – 1 off. 1 Carrier 1Bay/Albion class 2… Read more »
Should I ever be in the position to do something about all this,I will give you a call.
Wow…. wonder how we are going to get to afford this fleet (and all the personnel)? What with a £2 Trillion debt to pay off, eroding sterling due to brexit jitters and a population that would prefer the money spent on other items (health, social, roads etc.) I would say we have no chance (unless we are going to war). I would like to see such a fleet created, and agree with John that you would be one of the chaps to call… but in the meantime I would prefer that the UK makes extremely large amounts of money in… Read more »
WEll im sure the Admiralty will welcome your input , its a wonderfull pastime playing around with paper fleets.
Further to this as a previous post said what is left of the Navy for other duty,s when the Task group is established, Damn all judging by the fleet size projected.
Doubt the LPD’s will be sold. Who says? The media. Lets believe when we see it.
In 2010 I was thoroughly depressed to read that the entire GR4 force would be cut?
What happened. It wasn’t.
As for Pacman27’s plans, I think he’s put an awful lot of effort in but the numbers at the end of it are indeed fantasy.
Actually this is similar in size to our current main fleet, it does move assets around however. Organisationally it just means we build these ships over the next 30 years of the NSS. Albion, Bulwark, x 3 Bays, Argus are all current ships, Tides are being brought in for QE carriers – so I dont think we are far away – the biggest change is the retirement of the MHVC fleet to be replaced with T31’s that can deploy Mine Countermeasure suite. As I have said – a few simple changes and we can do this, certainly not tomorrow but… Read more »
I’ll have some of what you are taking.
In the meantime I think this fleet is realistically possible given the political will
CVF’s x2
Type 45 x6
Type 26 x8
Type 31 x10
OPV x6
SSN x7
Albion LPD x2
Bay LSD x3
Point RoRo x 3
SSBN x 4
Mars Tankers x 4
Mars FSS x 3
Hunt and Sandown x 12
Archer x15
Echo and Enterprise
Ice patrol
Hospital ship
Forward repair ship
Bang on, pretty much what we have at the moment with double number of T31, an extra OPV, replacing Dilligence and retaining rather than cutting more MCMV.
You can add Wave Knight and Wave Ruler to that list too.
Political will is the key. The UK is a rich nation, spending a fortune on the Oversees development budget and a further fortune on Single Market access when in fact free trade should be just that – free.
4 ssn’s? who’s are we borrowing?
i’d see a tide tanker behind a 26, carrier with a t45 in front of it two t23’s on the wing and a couple of 31’s to fill any gaps. a diamond formation worked for england in 1986 euros (devised by terry venables)!!!
Pretty clear the CSG for some time during preparation would be using just about purely RN assets (and RAF), but I think the whole concept really starts taking shape and going beyond “We don’t have enough escorts” will be when she operates with French, Dutch, Danish, Spanish, Canadian, Norweigan and other surface escorts, and even submarines. Then perhaps some of the criticism will die down. If it was me, I’d make that transition as soon as possible.
Well, after the budget anyway! Maybe next JW.
the u.k should look to reactivate the tomahawk fitted swiftsure ssn alongside in devonport and rosyth
We are not the USN and should not try to be. Unless the carrier is sailing in to an actual full on war she will not require the entire fleet to support her. 4 ships will do the job nicely. A Type 45 to handle AAW along with the carriers own F-35B. 1 Type 23/26 with a TAS 2087 for ASW as the carrier will have 9 Merlin HM2 aboard as well. A Tide for fuel and a FSS for for everything else. Although I wouldn’t recommend it the carrier can in theory provide her own AAW and ASW from… Read more »
i’d expect a diamond formation for a u.k. group to have a wave class rfa at the back, a t26 in front of it,a carrier or amphibious platform in the centre flanked by 2 type 23’s, a t45 in front of the carrier and an astute at the point, with merlins(always armed) operating in the remaining gaps. a couple of op.v’s fitted to the same specs as asigma corvette a 76mm gun, two quad anti air missile launchers, two triple tube torpedo launchers and 4 exocets/harpoon(13 less crew.), the sizes and specs of the rivers shows what can be done… Read more »
This is now a embarrassing mess that no one has the character to get us out of. There is one man to blame for this and he has gone into hiding since he left Government. We never could afford this, now all the services have to pay for it. Sell them , if any one would buy them but l doubt it. Who would want them, the Americans control the the strike ability not us and probably always will. Some one needs to be honest and brave now before the likes of the next Labour Party wipes it out for… Read more »
That would be silly. The carriers are a great asset that we can afford if we choose to do so. What is embarrassing about having two 70000 tonne vessels capable of operating 50 aircraft? Can’t say I like Tony Blair but the CVF programme is one of the only things he got right.
where they really Blair era? Kinda makes sense, he was all about his own legacy and not that interested in what impact that would have on the country itself.
This is one of the worst paragraphs I have read on here, sorry.
The RN needs to be built around assets such of these.
As for “the US controls the strike ability” whats all that about?
Is the UK not allowed a strike capability?
What assets would you prefer to the 2 carriers? Canoes?
Are you TH is disguise?
no government since the 1970’s has had the fors ight to properly look ahead at the real needs of the nations forces. the type 21’s were sold off, 6 now operate as destroyers in the pakistan navy when, we could still be operating them in the gulf and the med. the type 22’s were removed simply because of their running costs. the type 42, instead of a modern reappraisal of its abilities was retire, we lost three carriers of the invincible class, ark royal 5 years early.we have the entire churchill,swiftsure ssn classes in mothballs in devonport and rosyth.we’ve got… Read more »
for gods sake no politics here please! just don’t say corbyn! instead of building two carriers we would have been far better served by buying the nimitz class super carrier JFK (with catapults) current on hold for donation or as a museum
Nice to see a third of the fleet in one photo.
So much negativity. QE / 2 Type 45 / 2 T23/26 / 1 MARS / 1 Tide / 1 SSN is fine, and more capable than any other nation excluding the usual superpowers which the UK is not. So why all the bitching? The RN is long past having fleets in every sea and ocean, nor does it need to. If there is a major war we have the capability to put a CBG together and the nation should be proud of that. In the interim with no war we will have hopefully a decent number of T31 / River… Read more »
I suggest reading the leaked HMS Sheffield report dated 1982. It quite sobering to read the catalogue of humans errors and technical deficiencies exposed by real war when it happens.
So stop playing fantasy battleships and look at the current problems with our current a new future fleet.
Highlights of Sheffield report Marked “Secret – UK Eyes Bravo”, the full, uncensored report shows: Some members of the crew were “bored and a little frustrated by inactivity” and the ship was “not fully prepared” for an attack. The anti-air warfare officer had left the ship’s operations room and was having a coffee in the wardroom when the Argentinian navy launched the attack, while his assistant had left “to visit the heads” (relieve himself). The radar on board the ship that could have detected incoming Super Étendard fighter aircraft had been blanked out by a transmission being made to another… Read more »
Damning indeed. Is RN training more thorough now than then to counter these mistakes?
One would hope so, but in my experience the hard earned lessons of war are easily forgotten in times of peace.
I also think we constantly underestimate the importance of the human factor in war.
It is difficult to train personnel in peace time conditions to achieve the correct level of competence and intensity required for combat.
In which case that would apply to all nations navies. With the RN’s Thursday war with FOST the RN is surely better than most in that regard.
Is the RN better than most navies regards personnel and training? I would say yes.
Is the RN equipped and prepared to fight a conventional war? I would say no.
Best way preserve the peace is to prepare for war. I think the constant defence cuts out armed forces have had to endure over the past 25 years have reduced their war fighting capability.
Are you suggesting those defence cuts have no impact on that capability?
The Falklands was a step change for the RN with regard to the way we operated and fought. The lessons learnt and resultant changes where extraordinary. The vast changes in Damage Control and Fire Fighting procedures and equipment have been seen on the RN vessels that have had collisions. Southampton, Nottingham , Brazen would have probably been loses had the post Falklands training not been in place. Regarding the other issues SCOT blanking out radars was fixed within weeks of the Sheffield being lost. Other improvments to electronics, EW, Radars etc where al implemented very quickly. In 1983 I was… Read more »
unloaded? no surprise there, when i was on the blake the 6 inch gun was always loaded. no u.s aircraft leaves a carrier without its weapon payload, nor does any helicopter thats a lesson the R.N should have lerned years ago, bombs missiles e.t.c are not ornaments they re serious stuff and should be ready to perform the tasks they are designed for.
Without a doubt the QE class are amazing ships. However they have been built without the full support package needed, although this could potentially be resolved just so long as political will and funds are there. RN needs 3000 more personnel We need the type 45s fitted out with mk41 vl systems we need all 8 type 26s brought into service The RN needs at least 10 (ideally 15) type 31 frigates we have to retain Albion and bulwark and get a replacement for ocean built. If we do all these things and plan for a further batch of 4-5… Read more »
Bang on as usual. The UK has money, spending it on oversees aid, the EU, and Social security seen as more PC.
especially when you look at where that money goes to.shushsssh, don’t tell corbyn.
Mike. No I’m not suggesting that for one moment. I’m clinging to the hope that Fost training makes the mistakes of the Falklands war less likely. Agree with the saying. You want peace, prepare for war, and Speak softly, and carry a big stick. I do however, when people despair at the endless cuts, including myself, like to compare with other nations who are in a worse position than the uk.
I think we agree on the core issues. My stance on defence matters is based on my perceived reality rather an overt negativity or positivity. We need a credible defence plan that clearly determines what our capability is and how that will be funded. The problem at the moment we do not have a credible plan and the funds are inadequate. We pretend we are a global force, when in fact we are not. We need more war fighting equipment and personnel not cuts to maximise the true potential of our armed forces. On the positive side our service personnel… Read more »
I broadly agree but I think one needs to define global force, as we have capabilities like the ssn’s, intelligence gathering, and airborne Istar as but three examples that few nations can match. If you define global force as sheer numbers alone then indeed we are not. But until there is another serious cold wsr that results in the government waking up and increasing numbers that won’t change. I’m trying yo be positive and cling to the positives we have. The UK is a medium ranked power beneath the superpowers usa Russia, China and India. Some people seem to find… Read more »
I would also add that the UK has not had a credible defence plan since sdsr98 and that too was never realized due to spending cuts.
unfortunatly the u.k doesn’t have the ambition to match that of the indians, they have doubled the size of their navy in 15 years, t has the biggest booming economy in asia, yet we still them millions in aid money . all we get from the politicians is the two new carriers type 26’s blah, blah bringing back national service and making all shore establishments finish training on the same day, mass drafts to ships in most need, things could look a lot better.
@IvanOwl I think a budget of £36-40bn p.a. is more than enough for a military the size of the UKs, in fact the USMC, IDF, France and most other nations get by on far less. The issue for me is not the budget but how we spend it and the sums just do not add up. Clearly some decisions need to be made – but really budgets are simple once you have a strategy on how you want to spend your money. Personnel and Welfare – £15bn pa (for 250k personnel – inc. 50k Civilians) Equipment £10bn p.a. Support and… Read more »
the M.O.D has allowed itself to be locked into contracts with the likes of BAE pulling out of these contractscosts more than going ahead with them. before any ship is retired its replacement should be there to take its place no ship should before every chance has been explored to extend its service. ships should be built with the same 50 year expectation being given to the carriers.
The biggest problem we have now is that with Brexit no-one understands how much money we will have to spend. Planning is blighted by Brexit. Hence all the contingency rumours which are probably driven by ‘what if ‘ budget scenarios. Very much a case of ‘don’t panic Mr Mainwaring’ I think.
the M.O.D should be aware, the case for amalgamation of some of services is gathering momentum,(r.a,f with the fleet air arm., paras and marines s.a.s with s.b.s. maybe a u.k defence force may be the way to go, or a u.s.m.c set up, for the rest.
I define a global force is the ability to undertake independent military operations as defined by our responsibilities to our citizens and allies. For example, the Falklands in 1982. Of course the viability of the military opposition plays a part in the that process. For historically reasons the UK has many defence responsibilities across the world, but in all reality we are to weak to undertake those responsibilities. We just need to honest with ourselves about what we can achieve rather jingoistic comments about being in the ‘premier league’ made by the FSL. The truth is our carrier strike when… Read more »
Agree a repeat of the Falklands would be touch and go. The RN is less than half the size it was in 1982 when I think we landed about 4000 troops in the first wave. Doing some rough sums if we sent one CVF, one Albion, 6 frigates, 2 LSD, 3 OPV’s, 2 Type 45’s we might cram in about 3000 troops. Not sure where the second wave of 5000 troops would come from; commandeer a cruise liner or two I suppose and Point class. Also a worry is that the RFA is much depleted. 2 or 3 big new… Read more »
All agreed, but have to factor in the enemy. If we were to engage in full scale conventional warfare we will sustain losses, war is by nature unpredictable things happen which are not planned for. If the RN was expected to go up against a reasonably well equipped third world nation many thousands of miles from the UK we would incur some losses. We were lucky in 1982, Argentina had only 5 exocets and many bombs hitting ships failed to explode. Advances in anti ship missile technology and the way they are employed make warships vulnerable if we have insufficient… Read more »
Yes, we were very lucky. If there is a next time the outer AEW screen of Merlins would might lily pad off the OPV’s and Type 31’s. Crowsnest used that way should give 200-300 miles warning of sea skimmers. Actually, risk wise I think our no 1 priority is an Argentinian special forces / paratroop assault taking the airfield, radar and Flaads sites. If that were to succeed they could re-inforce quickly using civilian transports.
So the wider issue here is that the Foreign Policy of HM government is dictated by Washington. Not London.
And the UK operates in conjunction with NATO or other allies.
one of the carriers will always be in dock on extended readiness
Mike i would hope that any attacker from a peer or near peer state would be thined down by Astute class, Aster 30/15 combo, sea ceptor then Phalanx. This is layered defence. once we have full carrier strike in 2013 the F35bs can go in and take an enemy apart before they even know they are there, obviously supported by waves of tomahawks. Just need to buy more of those excellent cruise missiles. Look what tomahawk did to the Syrian airbase responsible for chemical weapons attack. 30% of the active Syrian fast jets in their air force were destroyed on… Read more »
Honestly I would like to see the assets we have fully equipped, maintained and manned. I’m very worried that the budget settlement we have at present means we do not have a sustainable fleet and we are going to slowly lose assets and levels of readiness. You rob Peter to pay Paul a bit each year and all of a sudden what you have is not sustainable. The UK government ( of all flavours) has been doing this in a number of areas including defence and health decade on decade……. Whoops we have not invested in ship building and now… Read more »
every,ship, aircraft, chopper should be armed and ready to react at all times especially when tasked to escort the carrier
There is some chatter that an Israeli F35 was hit and damaged by a Syrian s200 missile over the weekend.
There was an attack by Israeli air force on a Syrian target during that period. Israel has stated no aircraft were lost in the attack.
Nothing confirmed, maybe complete rubbish
IDF are apparently saying the damage to the F35 was bird strike related.
I have to say I’m taking the report with a fair pinch of salt. 1) it’s a very old bit of tec and 2) I can’t imagine an F35 ( or anything flying) surviving a hit by one ,after all it’s designed to kill strategic bombers.
if it is true then the air marshals,admirals,boing reps e.t.c. have every right to feel the light trickle of failure running down their backs the u.k. has put too many eggs in one basket in the whole f 35/catobar fiasco
only the bootnecks and the admirals will care two ships that size, mainly unarmed are a joke.one of the mistrals bought by egypt from france would be enough to cover the loss of both of them. i’d go for a bay class with the upper superstructure and replaced with a full length deck to operate as the albions and ocean do.
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