Then Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson told Australian ministers in 2018 that HMS Queen Elizabeth would conduct freedom of navigation patrols in the disputed South China Sea region on her maiden deployment this year.

Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said:

“We spoke about the challenges including in the South China Sea and we had a long discussion about the Pacific and the opportunities for deeper British engagement in our part of the world.”

Johnson (now Prime Minister) said  at the time in response to concerns raised regarding freedom of navigation in the South China Sea:

“One of the first things we will do with the two new colossal aircraft carriers that we have just built is send them on a freedom of navigation operation to this area, to vindicate our belief in the rules-based international system and in the freedom of navigation through those waterways which are absolutely vital for world trade.”

We reported recently that it had emerged that the UK plans to sail HMS Queen Elizabeth to the Pacific in 2021.

Commodore Michael Utley, Commander United Kingdom Carrier Strike Group, is reported by Save The Royal Navy here as saying that HMS Queen Elizabeth will be escorted by two Type 45 destroyers, two Type 23 frigates, a nuclear submarine, a Tide-class tanker and RFA Fort Victoria. The ship will also carry 24 F-35B jets, including US Marine Corps aircraft, in addition to a number of helicopters.

Baroness Goldie Lord in Waiting, Minister of State for the Ministry of Defence, said in November this year:

“The deployment of HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH will demonstrate the UK’s commitment to upholding a rules-based international system and showcase our world-leading carrier capability. The UK has enduring interests in the region and is committed to maintaining regional security, including asserting its rights to freedom of navigation and overflight as laid out in UNCLOS. Wherever the Royal Navy operate, they do so in full compliance with international laws and norms and exercise their rights to freedom of navigation and overflight provided for by UNCLOS.”

What are freedom of navigation operations?

‘Freedom of navigation operations’ are designed to reinforce internationally-recognised rights and freedoms by challenging excessive maritime claims. The particulars of each operation are determined by the excessive maritime claim that is being protested.

What was China’s response?

Chinese defence spokesman Tan Kefei was quoted in the South China Morning Posas saying:

“The Chinese side believes that the South China Sea should not become a sea of great power rivalry dominated by weapons and warships. The real source of militarisation in the South China Sea comes from countries outside this region sending their warships thousands of kilometres from home to flex muscles. The Chinese military will take necessary measures to safeguard its sovereignty, security and development interest as well as peace and stability in the South China Sea.”

What happened last time?

In 2018, assault ship HMS Albion was challenged by a Chinese frigate and two helicopters during freedom of navigation exercise in the South China Sea.

Royal Navy assault ship ignores warnings from Chinese warship in South China Sea

Local media report that both sides remained calm during the encounter and the Royal Navy assault ship continued on course despite protests from China.

 

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Herodotus

Baroness Goldie Lord in Waiting? Someone explain please. I’d be much more interested in a Baroness Goldie Hawn in Waiting! I’m here…I’m here!

Andy P

She’s 75 now mate, I wouldn’t wait too long. 😉

Herodotus

Well, at my age, I wouldn’t climb over her to get to you….as they say in the Andrew!

Andy P

That’s one of us sleeping safely tonight then…..

Daveyb

Does she still have her own teeth?

Andy P

There are advantages to ‘nae gnashers’…. just sayin’….

dan

I’m sure once creepy old Joe takes office the Chicoms will get their wish.

Herodotus

Not to worry Dan….creepy old Don will come back, one day, in your dreams….’Oh my God, another pre-mature organism…..mom, where are the Kleenex’.

dave12

yaaaaawn!!!

Andrew r

With someone like Trump in office right now Biden won’t have to worry about Republicans. The way they treat covid most of the will be dead soon any way.

Tim

Maybe that’s why they test carriers first , so they can iron out problems before making them active I bet you were one of the lot banging on about it not having aircraft before it was even tested at sea

Herodotus

Stop replying to Harold…..just stop it!

Airborne

Its hard not to as his chuff is quite entertaining….

Darren

It’s a troll.

John Hampson

I was off the Malaysian coast in 2013 and 14. When we moved location we were followed by a Chinese Coastguard corvette with a PLAN destroyer. On arrival at a new location, the Chinese would inform us that we were in Chinese waters without permission and we were to depart. On one occasion it took the appearance of Malay Hawks to persuade the Chinese to back off. During this time a Chinese amphibious task force held exercises at James Shoal and the Commander told his Marine force to be prepared to fight to defend China’s territory. ( Text of his… Read more »

Herodotus

I am afraid that you are right on this issue John. The west has to push hard on this, along with our allies in the Far East. If it goes to the wire, then so what….Chinese victory on this issue will be a destabilising force for years to come…..it has to be shoved back in their faces!

John Clark

In a rare moment of agreement, I concur with Herodotus! The growing close links between China and Russia are deeply concerning and we appear to be pivoting into a new cold war, covering an absolutely enormous geographical area. We had best cement our links with countries like Vietnam. Burma, Cambodia and Laos already have increasingly close ties with China and I wouldn’t be surprised if they continue their respective pivots towards China. China is courting Thailand and making progress, it would be disastrous if it fell under China’s spell. Vietnam is feeling exposed and under increased threat from all directions.… Read more »

Pete

You can add Bangladesh to those already under heavy influence. The Indians are paranoid about the Chinese establishing a Naval base with land route rail link on the Andaman Sea. Indonesia and Vietnam will robustly resist…but will welcome strong support on these matters.

Captain P Wash

Look here chaps……. As long as we buy their rubbish, they will continue to build a credible force, capable of undoing all the wrongs dished out to them over the many years…… Why do you think they are building such a huge amount of Ships and Island fortresses ? It ain’t Rocket Science……….

Robert Blay

Doesn’t mean they want to start WW3 with the west though does it. Our economy’s are reliant on each other, they have nothing to gain except global economic ruin. which is as bad for them as it would be for us. Plus, they would loose, badly.

John Clark

I don’t think they do Robert, they are flexing their muscles and asserting there position as one of the planets dominant nations. It’s extremely important we don’t show weakness here and establishing a coalition of nations need to be done. It might well be the position that using NATO as blueprint, we have to establish a similar (attack on one is an attack on all) organisation to replace the somewhat looser ASEAN organisation. It’s possible that NATO itself might ultimately evolve to encompass SE Asian Nations, with a suitable change of name, especially if China and Russia form a new… Read more »

Daveyb

The problem the Ruling Party have is that they need to keep their 1.2-ish billion population fed and watered, or they may face a populace uprising. They have already fished out the Bohai Gulf most of the Yellow Sea near Korea and are being continually arrested by the Japanese Coastguard off the Okinawa island chain. The other issue for China is they are almost totally dependent on imported oil and gas. Just to their North is Siberia, but that’s part of Russia and you don’t want to agitated the Bear. To the South is the South China Sea (SCS). It… Read more »

dave12

Agitate the bear ,the Chinese’s have taken over a lot of the farm’s and farmland in eastern Russia as Russian’s can not afford to keep them and Putin is doing nothing about it maybe because they do good business supplying china with gas and oil.

Paul.P

Good observation. China is large but struggles for cultivating land it seems.
https://www.economywatch.com/agriculture/country-wide/china.html

Pigeon

In all honesty, given the West’s historical and in places continuing approach to annexations of territory, including the areas in question- I don’t think we’ve even a whimper of moral credibility in complaining, and the Chinese, who we treated appallingly, are not wrong to ignore us. They have long memories and view this as all part of the West getting its comeuppance.

Andy P

Is that not a bit of a ‘two wrongs’ approach, I know its kind of how countries roll but using previous grievances as an excuse to do what you want just perpetuates things. You have to hope that we evolve but I accept there’s more hope than expectation in this.

Guess I’ve turned into a Goddamn hippy over the holidays….

Pigeon

I agree, and likewise on the hippy fear! But the reality is there is no arbiter of right or wrong so all that is irrelevent. Especially for the Chinese. The teo wrongs approach does also however cross into us doing things that do atagonise people. What is the genuine view of the locals we claim to be acting on behalf of – are they (all with large Chinese populations) reconciled to this in reality if not right, and do they really want us doing this? Plus why the hell are we spending a fortune doing this post ravaged by Covid?… Read more »

geoff

A wise post Pigeon. I think of poet Rod McKuen-“There is no wrong side nor right side, No side of the Angels and none that Devils can call their very own!”
Sh*t-this Hippy stuff is contagious! 🙂

Captain P Wash

Make love, not War, man.

Meirion X

Was not this trip planned some while before Covid19?

Andy P

Agree with you Pigeon, the ‘two wrongs’ approach is something that pretty much everyone uses to justify their actions, “its not our fault THEY did blah blah blah….”

While I wish as a planet we could get past it, its not going to be in my life time. While our big brains have invented clever ways to kill each other, we’re still like monkeys in other ways. The human condition I suppose.

DaveyB

Should we let Covid rule how we do business in the future? No, the sailing has been planned for at least 2 to 3 years now. Is it really willy waving. No, it is a sound political move, but is also good for UK business. There are a number of guaranteed stops like Singapore, Australia, Hawaii, Canada and the US. It is possible that South Korea and Japan are also on the cards. How about a stop in Hong Kong for old times sake. Guess that wouldn’t go down to well with the Party faithful.

geoff

Morning Andy. The Two Wrongs strategy is what guides the South African government in virtually every aspect of it’s domestic policy. Apartheid and the remaining White minority are responsible for all and every ill in the country now and going forward-in effect a licence to do whatever they want and blame the consequences on others. Sadly the Chinese justifications for their actions are in the same category and the hope that we will all evolve is but a dream. Sooner or later all this strutting will lead to a conflict that will in all probability spiral out of control. Seriously… Read more »

SD67

What on earth are you on about. The only country the Chinese have some justification in feeling a grievance towards is Japan. “we treated appallingly”. How, exactly? Opening a couple of trading outposts and facilitating their exports? We’re it not for Hong Kong, China would be decades behind where it is today

Pigeon

Ignorance is never a good look. Their behaviour in the SCS is a mere drop in the Ocean (hah!) of what the West has and continues to via direct and indirect control of “foreign and overseas”. The challenge to the West is self inflicted – greed and hubris as to how we behave economically and politically. Addressing the elephant in our rooms (for which there are massive fing footprints of evidence!) is far better than poncing around near China. Even by your own standards, we dont have a leg to stand on if China were to acquire by force, say… Read more »

Frank62

Ah, we didn’t peacefully negotiate a coupl;e of treaty ports back in the C19th, we decided first that paying so much bullion for all that tea & ceramics(china) was too costly so instead grew loads of cheap opium in India & paid with that instead. China protested strongly that so much of its population had become unproductive addicts, so we used gunboat “diplomacy” & beat them up until they had to surredner to our demands, which were these “treaty” ports, including Hong Kong, came from. Sadly we don’t teach that commonly in our schools, so we assume HK etc were… Read more »

4th watch

I dont think we left China out in the cold at the reckoning time of December 1941 did we? China was part of the Allies. If they were isolated post war, it was more or less their choice. The situation in the SCS is more clear cut. It looks increasingly like Sudetenland territory. Since 1945 the RN has regularly sent a task group through the SCS without a peep, because it is what it says on the packet. Freedom of navigation. China sent a task group through the channel, into the Baltic in 2017 and good luck to them. The… Read more »

Andy ardron

Sorry but those are silly statements, the west generally have developed hugely and are force for good. I refuse to feel guilty for something done by ancestors dead 100+ years. U can only judge on their and our actions today. West has faults but I dread to live in world policed by communist china

Pigeon

You need to get out and see the world. I have and do. Nobody is asking you to “feel guilty”. That is a strawman you invented. What I am saying is that we have no moral or practical credibility (especially after Iraq and Afghan fiascos – all very recent!), and that our actions expose us as hypocrites as we simultaneously suck up all the stuff China can produce and bend over backwards to attract their investment. They see us behaving like this and rightly despise us for it. Willy waving a carrier is being done for our ego – not… Read more »

TrevorH

You are talking gibberish. Who attacked Kuwait? Duh…Iraq. Who bombed the twin towers? Duh … Afghanistan terrorists.

Your myopia is showing. The Chinese statement above is purely self serving hypocrisy. If they believe in sweetness and light let them agree the existence of Taiwan. Let them agree truth honesty and justice in Hong Kong… And stop themselves from attacking their own minorities.

But they don’t. They are proven liars.

Andy ardron

Are yes because we are big bad bogey man, come on when do we put millions in concentration camps, imprison newspaper and tv channel owner this week alone and chase all Niehbours out of international seas. It’s been many years. We’ve changed and any one willing to take a stand against China has my support. And for the record I’ve travelled all round the world. There is a reason people flock to live here and it ain’t economic.

Pigeon

None so blind as those that cannot see.

If you cannot put yourself in others shoes as see us as they do – see our behaviour over Iraq, Afghan, Libya, Syria (which wherever you sit on them has to be questionable at best – and I’ve been to most of them and seen it for myself) – then you’ll live in a cosy bubble of self generated righteousness without ever understanding anything.

Andy ardron

I understand completely, however I judge China by its actions and what ever mistakes Uk has made in my life time they are incomparable to the total evil China perpetrates my starving millions of there own people, concentration camps, torturing own people, harvesting organs. It goes on and if you want to let them police the world you show your stupidity. It’s funny that the people like you that criticise the Uk most and love other countries still live in west while criticising them. If you think China is innocent victim you are obviously simple or a internet troll.

Pigeon

Ah. So bereft of any decent or logical argument you resort to creating strawman ones by claiming I think China is innocent (any evidence for that?) and then insults through calling me simple/a troll, implying stupidity because I want China to police the world (evidence?) and stating that I “love other countries”. You seem incapable of understanding the concept of “loyal challenge” let alone anything more complex such as realpolitik, influence and SMART aims, so its worthless debating further. Some free advice – get an education or some life/military experience (I have decades of both), but above all, stop showing… Read more »

Andy ardron

Your arrogance is vast. What education I have is non of your business and I fail to see the need to wave my 9 years of further education in front of you. Also probably unlike many I have visited China and seen the ignorance and evil they perpetrate first hand. I also fail to see the relevance of your service. It doesn’t make your comments any more valid. It also shows much about your ego that you bring it up.

SD67

Absolutely right and frankly the main reason the carriers exist, not to mention the Hunter program, Japan and possibly South Korea acquiring F35b. There is an existential challenge to Western civilization which is not going to stop at the first island chain

ChariotRider

Hi John, I did a study into the condition of Chinas ecological situation a few years ago and the situation would be considered catastrophic in the West. The situation was summed up by reports that in some areas farmers had to wear wellies in the paddy fields for the first time in history because the water was so polluted it stripped the skin from their legs! The rice went into the food chain… The developing relationship between Russia and China is one sided in China’s favour, given the balance of military and economis power. The only reason Russia is currently… Read more »

Frank62

My fear is for the PRC to look at Australia & New Zealand as large lightly populated areas for “living room” & resources. Much closer to them than Europe. They’d necessarily have grabbed the Phillipines & East Indies before that & Taiwan to start with. Their naval plans & strategic lines seem to suggest it’s a possibility. However there’s local strength with the S Korean & Japanese navies growing to check PLAN strength, the RAN expanding & upgrading, India being an implaccable PRC opponent with a sizable navy & the US & other Western interests in the area. Being so… Read more »

ChariotRider

Hi Frank, Your alternative scenario is definately the one most seem to be looking at and considering the most likely, but as you say there are a lot of powerful allies lined up against such a move. My suggestion is that China first secures her eastern flank by taking and fortifying the SCS. The move west would either be made with support from Russia. This would enable the Chinese to move west without resistance. I would be suprised if Russia would allow huge numbers of PLA into their country, but a reasonable sized force of the PLA would change the… Read more »

Frank62

Yes you’re right. The Chinese are a dangerous neo-colonial oppressive state. Trying to bully, bribe & blackmail neighbours & the international community to aquiesce to its will. Cultrural genocide for the Uighurs, totalitarian crackdown in Hong Kong. The huge folly of exporting so much of the West’s manufacturing to China gives them much leverage over us & the revenue funds the expansion of their armed forces, not least building a global fleet to challenge the USA & its allies This is why our few ships should be fully & credibly fitted with the best weapons & systems we can get.… Read more »

Steve R

Like your wee sister, I bet you spring a leak every time Wee Jimmy Krankie bleats about Scotland rejoining the EU.

Herodotus

Stop replying to Harold…..just stop it!

Meirion X

You are right! He will die without the Oxygen of attention.

Airborne

Alba……not great products, quite cheap and not reliable, but ok as a budget electrical choice.

Gavin Gordon

What a humourous guy

is that Tan Kefei

Rob

Some people are saying we are getting in over our heads with this deployment; I’d disagree. Look we aren’t just going as a sovereign task group. I’d be very surprised if Malaysia, Singapore, Australia don’t contribute escorts, maybe Japan & S Korea too. On top of that the Carrier Group will be supported by US overwatch in AEW, electronic warfare and maybe even a couple of subs. It is precisely this form of international action that deters the CCP, after all we aren’t the ones building island airbases and claiming sovereignty over thousands of miles of ocean.

Jon

I’ve seen that reference to 24 F-35Bs here more than once in the last year with the same attribution of SaveTheRoyalNavy, August 2019 quoting Mike Utley. But the STRN journal quoted the same man in December 2019 saying it would be two squadrons of 8. So why are we still getting links to the August edition alongside the number 24 for the 2021 deployment? If a subsequent correction was made taking it back to the original figure of 12+12, shouldn’t the correction be referenced instead, when it’s clear that the numbers were announced as downsized 6 months after the piece… Read more »

Last edited 2 months ago by Jon
Citizen

The interesting part is that HMS QE will have mostly American F35s on board during this trip. What will be their rules of engagement? I don’t imagine a decision of getting the U.S. into a war with China will be left up to British officers.

Sean

I would imagine that the Royal Navy and USMC has already considered and gamed the possibility of, for example, the Chinese attacking the RN escorts but not the carrier with the American F35’s aboard. You can bet money the USMC F35s would fight.

TrevorH

Why would the Chinese attack RN escorts? Are we in free international waters or not?
Well…?
Pro Chinese shrills please answer??

Robert Blay

And what makes you think a war is going to start just because we are sending a warship east of Suez ? HMS Albion was sent to that part of the world and came back in one piece after a very successful deployment.

Adrian

The real source of militarisation in the South China Sea comes from countries outside this region sending their warships”

So says China – parking Artillery on every bare patch of land they can find in the South China Sea.

Lordtemplar

Yeah i cringed when i read that statement. Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind!

Frank62

And creatiung land where there isn’t any to do so.

Adrian

Please just fit the last CIWS weapons first!!
And maybe some more EW/countermeasures whilst you’re at it.

ETH

HMS Queen Elizabeth has received her 3rd Phalanx.

Frank62

Yes. That’s a relief, but still QE is under armed c.f. most other CVAs. All we have is last ditch AShm defence Phalanxes when USN CVAs & LPHs have Phalanx + RAM + ESSM so can engange aircraft, drones & AShMs many miles further out than we can even when they have a huge pool of escorts to call upon than compared with us.
Plus Phananx is of questionable value.

ETH

The Aster 30 missile significantly out ranges ESSM, if that’s what you’re implying. Whilst I completely agree that a few cells of Sea Ceptor would not go amiss on the carriers, the money would be much better spent on enhancing the Type 45s with ballistic missile defence (SM3s) or extra CAMMs themselves.

4th watch

We should use the T45 Gym for its proper purpose.

John Clark

As many of us have suggested in the past, I think we should land the ASTOR 15’s and replace them with quad mounted CAAM.

Perhaps complete CAAM ER development and use those…

We could increase the missile load to 90 plus (relatively cheaply) and add much more bang for our buck with our primary Carrier escorts.

The the QE class, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Sea Ceptor and Lazer point defence weapons added in future refits.

Paul.P

Policing international rules by force is what we do in the short term. The longterm solution is conversion of Chinese hearts and minds to respect western culture. This will take a while and depends on the cumulative effects of individual humanity.

https://www.dw.com/en/uk-diplomat-saves-chinese-woman-from-drowning/a-55638514

TrevorH

It’s called deterrence.

Paul.P

Are you expecting an announcement from China that they are dropping their claim of sovereignty over the SCS? Good luck. My betting is that they will make clear they never had any intention of impeding freedom of navigation through the SCS and when the carrier task force has left their strategy of making their neighbours generous offers they can’t refuse will carry on as before. I don’t see Biden being confrontational in the Trump mould. Trump was the tough cop and Biden will be the nice cop.

We need a strategy to undermine the Chinese Communist Party.

TrevorH

We should stop buying their tat which is made via forced labour.
China can claim away, but we should continue to sail in international waters.

Paul.P

Agree on both counts.
I’m just saying there’s more to do to counter Chinese influence… lending cheap money for infrastructure in Africa, encroachment of Philippines and Galapagos fishing waters, human rights abuses, Iran….
We have at least stopped them building our nuclear power stations and telecoms infrastructure.

I’m sure HMG is on the case but we are behind the curve. Any QE task force needs to be multinational and not a one off. I’ll be interested to see the Australia contribution given their economic links with China.

David

How many Chinese ships pass through the channel?

ChariotRider

Hi David, Not that often to be honest. The last report of a Chinese warship in the English Channel was August 2019. She was sailing south through the Dover Strait having spent 3 weeks in St Petersburg. The Chinese Navy are still developing their global reach, so big deployments to the Atlantic are rare (in fact I’m not aware of a particular large deployment by the Chinese Navy to the Atlantic, perhaps someone else is?). https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3021340/uk-royal-navy-shadows-chinese-destroyer-xian-through-english The Royal Navy has been doing global stuff non stop for over 400 years. The Chinese took quite a holiday from that type of… Read more »

Tim

As many that wish to as long as it’s in international waters there free to do so the problem is China is claiming to own international waters

SwindonSteve

Not many Chinese Navy ships. But under the Freedom of Navigation laws, they could if they wanted to.

They’ll be watched closely of course, but they have the right.

What point are you trying to make?

Robert Blay

Not many, because they are not a blue water Navy.

Meirion X

Other nations and allied warships can be provided support by the Blue water navies.

Frank62

The PLAN is a huge navy & has been Blue water for years with a staggering & sobering expansion plan well in action.

Robert Blay

The PLAN is a limited blue water navy at best, having lot’s of ships doesn’t make a blue water navy, the ability to send ships around the world and support them for many month’s is what makes the difference.

Frank62

That doesn’t stand up. They have 16 large replenishment ships, 2 carriers similar size to our QEs plus another larger one building due 2022, 35 DDGs+16 fitting out & 32 FFGs of c4,000 tons+, & 11+ large LPH/LPD. They’re on course to eclipse the USN but even now can operate worldwide. Hardly the coastal force of the 1970s or 80s. Plus they have many allies across the globe. For coastal areas at least they have 76 light FFGs & modern corvettes. I’ve seen small S Korean light frigates/corvettes in Portsmouth, so it seems to me the PLAN really does have… Read more »

Robert Blay

And yet we see very few PLAN vessels West of Suez. They might have replenishment vessels, but who replenishs those vessels? do they have friendly ports world wide that are part of the PLAN forward supply chain, can they forward deploy warships for 3 years or more that can undertake maintenance thousands of miles from China, and crew change the personal like we do. I’m not so sure they can. And Chinese aircraft carrier’s are very limited in capability. No 5th gen stealth fighters for them at sea.

David Barry

Sometimes, some people only respect power and the sure knowledge that there is the will to use it. Whatever the past transgressions we have moved away from a victorian system of Government and are part of a rules based world order.

China needs to understand sgmhe has broken the rules and needs not only to stop, but, to retreat.

David Flandry

There you have it. The South China Sea is a Chinese sea. No other nation treats oceans like the PRC.

Meirion X

It’s like the Irish Sea is owned by the Irish, which is isn’t!

Frank62

Oh dear, I’m on the East coast & the North sea used to be the German sea. So I may get diplomatic protests from Angela next time I let the dog swin in it!

All those lovely Chinese take aways could be annexed by the PRC too!

Daniele Mandelli

Send the QEC Group, with allied contributions.

One cannot back down to bullies, it just emboldens them.

Frank62

Quite so. Not the time for appeasement or surrender or we’ll all be under PRC diktat & oppression.

John Hampson

It is not just the overt annexation of the SCS by military means, the Silk Road Belt being built is intended to place China at the focal point of economic activity across the Asian-European landmass for the coming century(ies).

David Barry

Your timeline is out of sync – it is placing China at the centre but we can be thankful to people like the Mayor of Prague who gave the Chinese a massive foxtrot oscar when they tried it on last year – much to the dislike of the Czech Govt who have been feeling rather comfortable with their bona fide investors…

Jonathan

I know there is now a bit of a craze around recreating family photos after Many years. Maybe HMG and the RN should ask the Chinese government if they could do a set of 50 years on from eagles pictures

Darren

China is an evil regime. Not the people but the regime. We, or rather our vested and paracytical interests enriched it. I hate china and we should not entertain the thing.

Davewithabeard

In what way evil? Do you mean defending its people? It is only regarded as evil by those who have no knowledge of Chinese politics

Darren

This chinese regime has helped in creating a virus to spread around the World, it does not defend it’s own people, but kills it’s own people. It is by far the most vile regime, therefore country on Earth today. We should not entertain it. And to top it, it make totally crap products that we have the stupidity to import (because we think they are cheaper, in the short term) and enriches them.