Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson has been sacked by the Prime Minister over allegations of leaks.
This comes after alleged leaks from the National Security Council meeting last week. According to those alleged leaks, Prime Minister Theresa May rejected the advice of senior ministers and agreed Huawei’s involvement in the UK’s ‘non-core’ 5G network.
A spokesman said:
“The Prime Minister has this evening asked Gavin Williamson to leave the Government, having lost confidence in his ability to serve in the role of Defence Secretary and as a member of her Cabinet.
The Prime Minister’s decision has been informed by his conduct surrounding an investigation into the circumstances of the unauthorised disclosure of information from a meeting of the National Security Council. The Prime Minister thanks all members of the National Security Council for their full cooperation and candour during the investigation and considers the matter closed.”
More on this as it unfolds.
And it was all going so well… who will be his replacement?
He seemed like someone who was actually making a difference in defence or at least more than his predecessors.
ANYONE IN THE SERVICE OF THE NATION IS PREPARED TO ‘TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM’ BUT HE DOESN’T DESERVE ONE IN THE BACK G.W WAS THE FIRST DEFENSE MINISTER TO BE NOTICED TO BE NOTICED AND HIS EFFORTS SHOULDN’T BE UNDERSTATED. WITH PEOPLE LIKE MAY ET AL, WHO NEEDS ENEMIES?
So that will be him going for a leadership bid.
I hope he dishes the dirt in his fairwell speech regarding May’s disastrous premiership.
It’s Mordaunt
And she is going to continue doing her previous ministerial role as well as Sec Def.
One of the top jobs in government is now not worth a dedicated Minister.
You really couldn’t make this up.
That has happened before in Browns premiership I recall?
Just read on the ITV website that a replacement has been chosen for Mourdaunt’s previous role.
No you just made it all up mate. Rory Stewart has taken over from Mordaunt and it was announced at the same time.
She is apparently staying as equality and minister for women… No complaints about that but Sec of Def should be the only hat you wear. Here other job as international d evelopment has gone to someone else
Been looking Rory up on Wiks – he seems a ‘first class cove’; honourable, very proactive, intelligent, worldwise, trusted be the Yanks – and has evidently achieved the miracle of being well thought of by UK media on both the right and left. Thoroughly committed to public service, evidently.
Are we describing an excellent future PM here, I wonder?
I might have got this wrong, but in the old aristocracy, the order was you put the thickest son in the army, and the brightest in either the Navy or Church? If correct, that is exactly where the government has placed defence; somewhere down the thick end where they play wargames and prance around on horses. This mindset is as true today as then, it’s still perceived as a sandpit.
I am not sure Penny Mordaunt can by any stretch of the imagination or language be called ‘thick’. And Williamson was a very sharp operator (sadly too sharp for his own good). So unless I have misunderstood your analogy I just don’t see it.
Chris H, this is nothing to do with Mordaunt being thick, but the typical government attitude towards the MOD. It simply looks at the department with some disregard, hence the sandpit comment. Only when the country is involved in a conflict does the subject of defence get the attention it deserves, as no doubt Mordaunt will find out?
Thing is, this government – along with most post-war UK governments – have forgotten, or completely disregarded, their first and most important responsibility to the country, which is DEFENCE OF THE REALM. It’s only when they get bitten on the bum (like the Falklands) that they realise… erm… we’d better not sell off that carrier/fleet of tanks/squadron of Typhoons, for razor blades. A curse on all their houses I say, Sir!
THERESA MAY IS ONE HARD FACED BITCH, THIS WILL COME BACK AND BITE.
Great news for the Navy – a real ally of the senior service and a Portsmouth MP. Good vision when it comes to the development budget assisting the defence budget; remember the hospital ship plan?
Sad about Gav – thought he did a good job – but I think we might have an able replacement.
It could be worse than Mordaunt. UK politics gets more interesting every day.
Not sure what to make of this situation. When you scanned the cabinet names looking for a likely suspect, I’m afraid that Williamson’s did spring out, though I have(d) considerable time for him as Defence Secretary. The NSC meetings are sacrosant, but from what was actually released, it’s difficult to see what bona-fide national security issue had been compromised since the concerns and attitudes over this subject had already been aired outside that forum. In essence, the decision was no different to what we had all anticipated.
Additionally, as a supposed means of promoting your PM credentials, it seems pointless: the predicted outcome would damn you in too many eyes, especially if you were not prepared to lay ownership to your beliefs on strongly-held principal; say that May had just been trying to keep an embarrasing issue, rather than strictly top secret, out for the public domain by cloaking it under the NSC umbrella, for instance.
There will be a number of senior military leaders crying into their cocoa tonight. A breath of fresh air is the best way to describe Williamson, and a minister who will stand up for defence. Now we have a ubiquitous minister who will not share the enthusiasm of her predecessor, nor will she fight to defend the MOD budget……………a disaster!
@Maurice – You do of course have proof she will not stand up for the Forces in which she serves (as a Reservist), for the Constituency she serves in Portsmouth and coming from a military family where her Dad was a Para?
If so do please enlighten us.
For too long the Defence minister role has been a step on the ladder to more serious jobs. (as it appears to be)Williamson appeared to relish the job for the right reasons. You are right, I don’t know her background, and if she is as passionate as her predecessor, then I’ll be the first to congratulate her. In truth Chris H, I was venting my spleen and should keep my powered dry. Let us hope she can take over the baton.
He was a light weight and very poor at even that. Sad but there we are. Not much intellectual rigour to him at all. He seemed to drop his foot in it every time and not look like a defence minister at all. All in all of that it seems he was keen to push himself up the greasy pole.
If he is not in Prison by then… This is a very serious crime if there is proper evidence against him.
Sounds to me like he was trying to keep Britain secure while the PM is in the pocket of the Chinese, ignoring her own expert advisors.
That is not how you go about it… I along with everyone else that has or is serving in the armed forces was doing my best to keep Britain secure but I was not blabbing my mouth off about the secrets I knew…
@Steven – You do of course have proof she is indeed ‘in the pocket of the Chinese’ and you are in possession of all the NSC discussions?
No thought not …
Makes me smile when two apparently different profiles peddle the same line about ‘the Chinese’.
DON’T THINK I’M HAVING A CHINKY FOR TEA TONIGHT
THIS WILL COME BACK TO BITE THE GOV I HOPE
He deserves a medal rather than censure and dismissal. I think Theresa May is an agent provocateur. I’m definitely concerned she is an agent for China. It’s best for her to open up her and her husband’s bank account now so we can see that she has not been taking any payments. Day by day she is turning out to be a maniac, a sociopath and a psychopath. I really feel that she is now acting as a de facto dictator in this country….sacking cabinet members without a formal enquiry will backfire; especially if he is proven not to have leaked information (even if he did this is a matter for national security in having Huawei involved in our 5G communications network). Will no one get rid of this mad sociopath as our PM? I greatly fear for the future with this excuse for a lady in charge of the UK. She is worse than Tony Blair and that is saying something!
Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest (PM)
As the quote goes…
I for one can’t wait to see her go. If its very painful all the better.
will they make him a saint? et tu brutus, sounds a bit like constructive dismissal if i were him i’d go after the p.m for it.(or slander)
Conspiracy theories are just that. Theories until proven. Or shall we call them ‘opinions’? And of course when you can’t level valid criticism at someone you have to drag in her husband and make unproven and disgraceful accusations about bank accounts.
Now I am no fan of the PM given her Brexit performance but I find your comments “maniac, a sociopath and a psychopath” pretty childish and VERY insulting.
Having China involved in our 5G. The US and UK security services have both said this was a security risk and a risk to our five eyes network. Again you show the fact you know nothing about defence or security matters.
We all know about that. The issue is about leaking from national security meetings.
the feds are saying there is no evidence of a possible breach of the law or official secrets act, methink there is dirty work afoot
allegedly
@Peter Shaw And once again you rush to make personally abusive comments and fail to add anything factual to the debate. You voice opinions and when challenged get all superior and dismissive of the person and fail to address the points raised.
Now all you or any of us know is there is a discussion at the highest levels of Government and security services about Huawei. Beyond that we all know nothing other than a lot of folks in security places are very concerned. That isn’t the point in question but nice diversion.
The issue is that ALL discussions within the NSC are controlled under the Official Secrets Act. Williamson was found to have leaked information and he has been sacked. And it sounds like he may well be charged and will face prosecution.
End of.
everyone who comes on here generally shows other peoples comments with respect i, for one will not resort to childish stone throwing like we see above ‘SHUT UP AND GROW UP
Thank you UKDJ for re-instating the above comment. I see a certain snowflake is still using the ‘flag’ icon to have people’s comments removed rather then engage in constructive debate while happy to dish out personally dismissive remarks.
@Peter Shaw – Repeating something does not make it a fact so just make your point and go shove your personal crap OK? At least I don’t go bleating to the Mods on here to have posts removed with which I do not agree like you have 6 times.
Now my comment was about your continual and unfounded allegations about the PM and her husband involving financial corruption and mental illness. Now unless you are from the SFO and are a doctor or Consultant dealing with maniacs, sociopaths and psychopaths forgive me for thinking it is YOU who know the square root of sod all about anything. Exaggeration also does not a fact make.
You, contrary to your self opinion, do NOT know what was said or presented at the NSC meeting. It is quite possible that HuaWei was discussed given concerns. But you do not know entirely what was said. That is it. There is no more. And yet you accuse ME of knowing “nothing about defence or security matters”.
As I said to someone else whose self opinion makes him feel the need to put others down maybe leave out the sarcasm? Personally I don’t care because I will happily argue my corner and boorish people like you will not stop me.
insulting to who? i’ve a feeling there is more to this business than we know, i suspect he’s been fitted up.
thats a silly post get over yourself.
Don’t lose your tin foil hat. Sad to see this place peddling such numpty rubbish. It’s on the way down if this is it’s level of comment. I guess this is the way if all flesh for websites.
@Trevor – I very much agree with you. And sadly when people challenge this nonsense it is our posts that are deleted as I have found out. Also of interest is that while after having zero ‘Up Votes’ for some 12+ hours now has 13 in the space of a few hours?
Have you forgotten how she behaved when she became PM ? The warning signs were already there but people praised her for being like Thatcher, SMH.
@Steven – I may only have 2 Brain Cells left but I think I can recall events from 3 years ago. But yes I appear to have forgotten. So how DID she behave that so annoys you?
FFS drop the subject, this forum is not for personal point scoring. lets keep it the way we really want it, with respect and not silly petty rubbish as has been posted above
@Peter Shaw – well I see you are adept at using the little flag option to have other people’s disagreements with your comments removed as mine have been. But I will maintain you are peddling outrageously offensive stories like ‘she is an agent for China’ and ‘a maniac, a sociopath and a psychopath’ with no proof to simply fabricate some rather odd argument. To say she is ‘ a de facto dictator in this country’ when she can’t get her main policy of leaving the EU past the House of Commons defines your view as slightly devoid of reality.
Of course I realise you are vastly superior in all things to the likes of me but when you make allegations and are challenged then you are, like it or not, obliged to justify your argument.
We will see how long this post remains in place shall we?
The flag option returns the post to moderation so I can look at it. If someone is abusing it (and remember Peter, we can see who reports what and why), they’ll be banned. I don’t have the time to look at comments people want removed simply because they disagree. Your comment is republished now Chris.
she is raising some disturbing comments i never expected about her, people entitled to ask, just who is running this government?
Probably so they can replace him with someone who follows the party line and gives the armed force over to the mercy of the treasury.
I hope the American’s withdraw formal security co-operation and military technology sharing in response to Gavin Williamson sacking. It’s absolutely disgraceful he was sacked for doing his patriotic duty to this country.
You really are plumbing the depths today Old Son. Breaking the Official Secrets Act is in no way ‘patriotic’. It is the next thing to treason. The NSC meets on very clear terms and written understandings. He broke those understandings and now the security services will not be sure if they can trust sharing the sort of data that is usually shared at NSC. This man was privy as Sec Def to the most critically secret information even in his daily job. Sadly (as I rated him as SecDef) he became a liability and a dangerous one at that.
I guess your politics blinds you to reality and as we have seen already you are quite prepared to peddle outrageously stupid allegations.
Non sense you talk absolute rubbish. Theresa May was wrong for sacking someone without a formal inquiry. You know nothing about defence matters and security or due process either.
@Peter Snow – Well I say. Not a single fact added about the point in question just personally dismissive comments. You do not know me, you know nothing about my background or experiences or basically the square root of sod all about me. So wind your neck in and shove the personal crap OK?
Now:
* It is your opinion that I talk rubbish. I also speak French, German and passable English and those are facts
* There was a formal enquiry by the Cabinet Secretary who also happens to be the National Security Adviser one Mark Sedwill
* I served for 15 years Pal and have maintained contacts and studied defence issues and concerns since I left in 1985. So unless you have served and done the same as well I suspect I know a damn sight more about matters Defence than you do. Difference is I don’t bang on about me I discuss the issues.
* It appears you don’t know a lot about anything Old Son so I wouldn’t gob off too much. You didn’t even know there had been an enquiry, who carried it out and his standing in the matter. But I will concede (apart from leaks in the Telegraph) no I haven’t a clue what goes on in the NSC. But I am sure you know everything. Or then again maybe not …
Take a gentle hint Old Son – Play the ball not the man. Especially when the man concerned may just be a bit like Chopper Harris (Google it)
You know nothing about me either “mate”. Unfortunately I cannot say what I’m involved in but I can say I know a hell of lot more than you do. Most people who actually do real things can’t or won’t share what they do…you might want to do that before flashing off random non-sense about “I’ve been in the military” guff. In terms of a “formal” due process the witch hunt led by Mark Sedwill has shown no evidence of wrong doing by Gavin Williamson other than some vague statement from that sociopath Theresa May. Also you need to be wary of making statements about Gavin Williamson guilt. You may well find (and I suspect this will come out in the wash) that he didn’t leak. At that point that sociopath Theresa May is toast. As regards playing the ball and not the man…you may want to think about that yourself old man….Another arm chair general you are claiming to be something you aren’t….
@peter Shaw. Hmmm so we get the ‘I can’t say what I’m involved in but …’ line that is found more often on YouTube. Doesn’t wash here.
OK I reckon I have read enough and taken enough of your shit. I will let others who know my history on here make their own judgments but I do not need to, or have I, tried justify myself to anyone and just answered your direct challenge that I ‘know nothing’. But all we get from you is opinions dressed up as fact, repeated stupidity like ‘sociopath Theresa May’ and continued superior insults.
So I am out of this.
Good I was getting tired of your non sense too. You did us both a favour.
@Peter Shaw – yes but not so tired you pathetically ‘flagged’ 6 of my comments to try and get them removed. And you failed completely. ALL HAVE BEEN REINSTATED!
So we now know the sort of person you are – when challenged you attack the person and adopt a superior attitude and then try to get them shut down. Well on here Old Son we have to defend our opinions and verify our facts. YOU do not run this website because better people than you do. So bring on your superiority and abuse because I will give it back with facts and without the abuse. Its how I deal with people like you.
There has been an enquiry. It just has not come with the answer you want. Someone leaked. If not him then who. And what a worm if so that he would not own up to it.
You have a very skewed idea if patriotic duty. Breaking the Official Secrets act is very serious. Anyone found to have broken the law in this regard can find themselves in prison and rightly so. It is not to be taken lightly. These people are trusted to keep the things that they are told to themselves as leaks can be detrimental to the security of our country. I certainly took it very seriously when I was in the RAF.
The problem is that no one really knows if it was really Gavin Williamson who did leak the info. We really need a criminal investigation in order to find out the truth, otherwise the person that leaked the info could still well be in those meetings again! If a full investigation finds that Williamson leaked the info then he should go to prison otherwise they need to find the person who did it and send them to prison instead…
All he did was expose the fact that the PM was ignoring her own advisors when allowing the Chinese involvement in our 5G network.
No he broke the official secrets act… That is a serious crime. You can’t simply be in a position of trust and then make that information public. You seem to be totally unaware of how trust works in relation to our countries security.
It’s a criminal offence isn’t it so why has the Met.Police declined to investigate it?once again that treasonous bint known as the PM seems to ride roughshod over the law.
@marc – well don’t let simple facts get in the way of a political rant. And yes lets throw in some abusive language as well? May has many faults caused by many factors but she is neither ‘treasonous’ or is in any way a ‘bint’.
She is also not riding roughshod over the law as no law is involved here other than the OSA which Williamson breached. Having said that he was actually sacked for breaching the Ministerial Code and so lost the confidence of the PM who can fire and hire as she chooses. Its how our Government and unwritten Constitution works.
There is nothing stopping the Metropolitan Police starting an investigation and interviewing whoever they choose. They do not need a referral or any permission from Government.
But then you knew that already didn’t you?
Is the law the same for all of us if not why not as for her being a treasonous bint if it swims like a duck,quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck it is a bloody duck.
@marc – Of course the law is the same for all of us but where precisiely has the PM broken any laws? And you persist in the name calling except you have one small problem. Treason is:
“the crime of betraying one’s country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government”
Now by all means criticise her poor efforts over getting us out of the EU as I do but I am not sure she has a) betrayed her country (some voters maybe), b)attempted to kill or overthrow Her Majesty the Queen or indeed c) overthrow her own Government. Although some might say she has inadvertently damaged her own Party.
Sorry but I never see any merit in name calling and exaggeration. It proves nothing.
how many of his predecessors will be remembered for actually trying ?
I am afraid I disagree fundamentally with Peter Shaw. Whatever the current Prime Ministers limitations, and let’s face it she is grossly over promoted, leaking from the NSC is not tenable. This is the first and only time it’s happened, and you don’t have to read very far to see that it is one ambitious man trying to prove that he is leadership material. He made two mistakes. Firstly, never trust a journalist, they are not on your side and they love dishing the dirt, it makes good copy. Secondly, it is not good practice to try and make out that you are always in the know, it merely confirms that you are a follower and not a leader, and we really need some leadership at the moment.
I suspect that Williamson was trying too hard, and I will be very interested to see what the other members of Five Eyes have to say about it. It could well be that they needed a sacrifice to prove we can still be trusted, and he is it.
Nick,
You’re referring to a split arse who is doing her best to surrender the Uk to the EU , whilst trying her best to ignore the most attended public vote this country has ever seen. if anything she should be taken to the tower , hung,drawn and quartered. I mean she makes Corbyn ,and Abbot look good.
You have no evidence (and neither does May) to demonstrate that Gavin Williamson leaked information. For Theresa May to sack someone without a formal inquiry is actually highly dangerous and a tactical mistake. If he is proven innocent (which I suspect he will) this will end her being PM. Act in haste and repent in leisure. She also ignored her own security advice about Huawei from the US, Australia and Canad. I’m afraid this will be end our links with the five eyes security network. Theresa May is a dangerous security and defence risk as well as being the worst PM in living memory. Thank god someone revealed the threat posed by allowing Huawei access to our network without due proces or a public enquiry into risks. You also need to avoid stating in your post that Gavin Williamson is guilty – he could sue you…
I certainly don’t disagree with you about May, it takes a peculiar kind of genius to cock things up quite as comprehensively as she has. Her place in history is assured, and it’s not going to be anything other than damning, and I suspect that the overriding of advice about Huawei is only the latest stupidity.
However, Williamson has admitted that he did have a conversation with the journalist from the Telegraph, but that he did not leak the information. Regrettably that sounds at best disengenuous, and I refer you back to my original post, never trust a journalist. Also May, for all her incompetence still has the levers of power to pull, and a lot of people in Whitehall, and our allies in Five Eyes, are rightly very concerned, don’t forget this is the first time it has happened, so a head or heads had to roll. We also don’t know the detail, did he make the call on an ordinary mobile, in which case it’s easy for lots of people to listen, see the News of the World and others.
I also agree with you that I hope he may be vindicated, but I suspect that is a long shot. He has been a good Sec Def, and i hope it doesn’t completely scupper his political career, although all bets are off as to whether the Conservatives survive at all.
Also I didn’t say he was guilty, what I did say is that he is over ambitious, and like Icarus he has flown too close to the sun. I suspect that there are plenty of journalists writing in today’s papers, I haven’t read mine yet, who he could sue before he gets to a lowly blogger.
The problem is that “Sounding disingenuous” and actually doing something are two different things. We really need to find out for sure so that we make sure the right person is punished. Otherwise the rogue minister the leaked the info will be in a position to do it again.
@Peter Shaw – To use an infamous expression ‘I agree with Nick’ in all his points. If he is proven innocent then it is the Cabinet Secretary (who is also the National Security Adviser) that will go. A PM can hire and fire who he / she chooses at will.
If she was misled by the Cabinet Secretary she cannot be blamed. Except in the myopic view of those who think she is in the pocket of the Chinese, tell us she is funnelling said money into her husband’s bank account and of course is a sociopath etc …
Best defense sec for donkeys and the traitor in chief has him sacked over her plans to sell off the UK to the EU, China and of course the R.O.P. Can’t wait till I hear the news she’s been taken out
Utterly disgraceful comment and you should be bloody ashamed! How dare you infer that she be killed simply because you dislike her politics. Or whatever. In this case it is not the PM that is the traitor it is Williamson.
Jesus H Christ with a hat on what has this Journal become?
Actually I have only ever voted tory and I will be voting for the Tories tomorrow. However this PM is a disgrace, as I have mentioned, she makes Corbyn and Abbott look good. On her watch she has ruined the Uk with her PC polices. Be it handing finding new ways to tax the plebs whilst refusing to listen to them, be it crime, Brexit , selling the UK over to the Chinese,
or handing over billions to people who hate us. (Handed over 97 Million to Gaza yesterday) shes nothing but a traitor to the British people and the sooner she is gone the better.
As for Jesus Christ under her watch white straight Christians have become second class citizens .
Now by all means criticise her but you inferred you wanted her killed with your “Can’t wait till I hear the news she’s been taken out”. Sorry no place for comments like that anywhere.
Well I have voted Conservative since 1970 but I will NOT be voting for anyone tomorrow. I will write ‘WHAT IS THE POINT’ on the ballot paper. But come May23rd I will be putting a big fat X next to the Brexit Party.
And as I am a White Christian (of no fixed religion) I do not feel like a 2nd rate citizen in any way. But thanks for projecting that falsehood. However as a Brexiteer I very much do given how our Establishment, Political Class and especially our Remain Parliament and Remainers generally have behaved. As an old person (72) I am abused simply for being an OAP because of course ‘they all know’ every OAP voted Leave. Which they didn’t as there were some 11.5 Mn (best guess) non OAPs who voted Leave as well. This is where our politics are now thanks to the aggression and superior attitudes of Remainers who have had free rein for 3 years. Well we, the quiet majority, are fighting back as we now have a voice and a platform. As I said many months ago on here “We will not go quietly into some wilderness ….”
If the PM has made mistakes then it was to try and appease all the factions inside the House – Remainers, 2nd voters, ERG, the Labour Party playing politics with the ONE non political issue and of course the EU. In trying to please everyone she pleases none. That does not make her any traitor. She was handed a poisoned chalice and has had her hands tied by those in power who would defy the biggest electoral event since WWII.
As Anne Widdecombe answered in Newport this week how she thought Maggie Thatcher would have behaved after the 2016 vote? She said we would have been out by the end of 2017!
” I will be putting a big fat X next to the Brexit Party”
Well done Chris. I hope the UKIP vote comes over too, along with disillusioned Tory and Labour voters.
No one could ever make Corbin or Abbot look good. For that matter, same applies to Bercow and, I’m afraid, Johnson.
Oh S**t!
Gutted at this news.
Would May really ignore the advice of not only ministers, but the security services, assuming that they must have had input. ( CESG or whatever it is called this week )
Mourdaunt was RNR I believe? As long as she can stand up to the treasury.
We join much of western Europe in having a female DS. Seems to be a trend.
I wonder who will give May a VERY well paid job when she finally leaves Number 10, Hmmmm.
Quite frankly, the militaries of western Europe don’t fill me with confidence.
Could we see a young, ambitious Gavin Williamson become PM, be pro forces, and sack Philip Hammond?
Hammond is one of the few realistic cabinet members left! Bad luck for Williamson…..good SoSD….and paid the price for being so.
I agree actually Herodotus. Been in his role long enough and has experience of other ministerial posts, love or hate spread sheet Phil.
No. He didn’t pay any price for being a good SecDef (which he was) he paid the price for breaking the Official Secrets Act. Particularly stupid thing to do as SecDef for obvious reasons.
Chris, lets see when the dust settles, he says that he did not leak the info, that is why he refused to resign, as that would have been seen as accepting that he had done it. I think that there will have to be a more formal inquiry. At that point if said enquiry exonerates Williamson. Where would that leave TM and her cabinet secretary?
@Paul Bestwick – The next ‘formal enquiry’ will be a Police investigation. Now the problem is the full story cannot be told (publicly) because it is within the context of the NSC and OSA although senior Met Police are authorised under the OSA to share certain information. However if he proves it was someone else (for example) then the Cabinet Secretary, who is also the National Security Adviser, will have to resign. Given the Prime Minister takes advice from, and therefore relies on, her Civil Servants I don’t think she would have to resign having been misled. She did not sack Williamson knowing he was innocent.
And there is another aspect to this. She can hire and fire anyone she chooses whenever she chooses and doesn’t have to give any reasons. Its a brutal old game.
Sad day, but it probably means he’s in with a chance to run for leader in the future! He swears on his children life he didn’t make the leak, who knows, if he did it was for good reasons. Lets hopes he’s PM soon.
I thought he has been the best defence secretary this nation has had in a while despite his cavalier attitude.
His replacement, Penny Mordaunt seems to be a great replacement, but time will tell. Especially for the Navy, she’s a Portsmouth MP and is part of the RNR. She’s named after HMS Penelope I believe.
Lets just hope she doesn’t move the entire fleet to Portsmouth and scrap Devonport!
Of all the choices she seems like a good one. Wasn’t she the one who proposed the hospital ships a few months ago??
Cannot see that happening myself.
Does HMNB Portsmouth even have the facilities, infrastructure, and people, to host 2 Carriers, 6 Destroyers, and 12 Frigates, as well as the Fishery Protection Squadron, Amphibs, and Hydrographic Squadron?
And reversing the decision to home port the 26’s at Devonport?
I said it in jest, I know she won’t do that! It was completely a joke. But I think there was an article about such a scenario on save the royal navy.
An occasional poster on here is convinced they have it in for Devonport.
One way the MoD close places by stealth is a steady stream of cuts, mergers, and unit moves, until the facility is not cost effective or value for money keeping open due to lack of assets in it.
As long as the T26’s are confirmed to be there it should be fine, and is being made a “Amphibious centre of excellence ” according to the MoD ( even though it already was )
It has the survey vessels and other satellite installations around it too.
ConservativeHome seem to have an extremely negative view of him. Not sure what to make of that, them being so pro-defence and all…
He was once Chief Whip and one of May’s close allies too.
She is trying to make herself look strong.
Strong and stable leadership…
If he really felt that strongly he should have resigned and embarrassed the PM saying SHE is the security risk, allowing Huawei access to our non core networks despite other 5 eyes nations resisting it.
I agree with that viewpoint, if he really reckoned that the PM was railroading the decision on Huawei then resign and stick in the knife. That would do his ambitions no end of good, but he is now tarred with the brush of “untrustworthy “ and that will be very difficult to remove. Let’s not lose sight of the problem here, we all tend to agree that T M is a rotten PM and has done the country no end of harm, but it is very unlikely that the security guys and girls have called this one wrong. And Williamson is on his way back to being a fireplace salesman, which is probably not how he saw his career planning out!
More going on than meets the eye perhaps? Gavin was a hard Brexiteer and May is closing in on a Brexit agreement with Labour. The hardline position of our closest ally on Huwawei is public knowledge. Maybe Gavin was the nominated hard Brexit team Kamikazi intended to sink May.
In the photo in the DT he is wearing a cheeky guilty look.
Interestingly Mordaunt is also a hard Brexiteer, so no change there at the top. And Williamson’s default expression is a bit cheeky/ guilty so no change there. Have a read of the exchange of letters between the PM and Sec Def, no love lost there, and she is pretty direct that he was at best being evasive. Interesting times.
Interesting times indeed. Agree about Gavins default expression 🙂
It’s also possible he was just trying it on.
Best defence secretary for decades. Hopefully he’ll be exonerated & this will be just another blunder of many. Huawei are too controversial to be employed but stupid decisions are what we’ve come to expect of this HMG.
One of the few defence secretaries that was actually willing to battle with the Treasury to prevent cuts and to fight for additional funding. I like Penny’s background, but she is definitely a May insider and I suspect a lot less willing to rock the boat by battling with the Treasury. I would not be surprised to see another raid on the MOD budget to fund social programs….
I cant see whers you get that from. He looks lightweight to me. All he has been doing is to talk a good game but not much more. He was pushing himself politically. It does not add up to suggesting May was very astute either… and there is plenty evidence for that as well!
It is amazing that this happened on the day before the local elections, where the Tories were already predicted to lose 800 seats. Any other PM would have waited til Friday, but T May seems so punch drunk, she has lost the plot. My guess is that her time as PM is coming to an end, perhaps as soon as this weekend, or by the end of this month, though she will probably be carried out of Downing Street, Julian Assange style.
Agreed. I wasn’t going to bother with the local council elections, this story has changed that.
That’s just great!! Gav wasnt that bad!!
Another reason to hate Mrs May! I hope it works out…
Perhaps he should go away and shut up
Something stinks about this witch hunt, he was the best defence secretary we have had in many years.
First time I can recall a politician who appeared to passionately defend his department and not be a self serving so and so.
I personally think this back stabbing is more down to his personal fight with Hammond and May fighting the MOD’s corner.
He should join the BREXIT Party, they need a Defence spokesman moving forward.
agreed. Also the number of random people commenting on this article and giving upvotes to anti gavin Williamson comments is rather interesting. I for one know that a fair few people who regularly use this website are pro GW, so I cannot explain all of the negative comments or votes.
@John – I have both praised GW as SecDef and agreed with his dismissal. The two are not in any way linked so there is no ‘conspiracy’ or hypocrisy. He had his faults but he did seem to fight the Defence corner well.
He broke the Ministerial Code, apparently the OSA, broke the terms of his attendance at the NSC. Given the tools available through our security people I have total faith that they unearthed the ‘compelling evidence’ that ended his career.
So a reasonably good SecDef has gone due to his failure to keep secrets. There is some irony there…
I honestly do not understand why so many of you seem to think it is OK to leak from the NSC. If he did this, and yes that is an IF, he deserves to be sacked and prosecuted. There is no excuse, no matter how much many might dislike the incumbent of number 10.
As for his record as Def Sec, even if a fraction of what is reported about him is true then blimey he really is a Private Pike, apparently his nickname at the MOD. Allegedly, his knowledge of defence issues is alarmingly basic and has a tendency to act childlike when we need a statesman/person.
Personally I am looking forward to seeing what Penny Mordaunt does given her forces background.
Surely the threat to national security comes from senior ministers in the pockets of the Chinese, rather than from the Patriots trying to stop them.
@JohnHartley – I don’t know if this the third of Peter Shaw’s profiles but can you (whoever you are) please identify:
a) who these ministers are
b) how they have been recruited by the Chinese
c) which bank accounts (apart from the PM’s husbands apparently) are now receiving Chinese funds?
d) why a traitor breaching the Official Secrets Act now becomes a ‘patriot’ because it suits your politics?
It is really quite interesting how some supposedly different profiles are peddling verbatim the same ‘Its the Chinese’ messages …
If T May was still in charge, none of this cabinet backstabbing would spill out in public.
I suspect this goes back to Williamson offering to Send HMS Queen Elizabeth to the Far East. That mucked up Phil Hammond’s jolly to Beijing. I would not be surprised if someone in his camp stitched up Williamson.
I dread to think what will happen to Tory unity when the local election results are announced. I don’t think you can take any story on cabinet ministers as true, while there are all these plots & counter plots going on. It will only end when T May goes.
Rob I see your point, but lets go by tangible results, rather than listen to the play ground bullies, who probably had a hand in his demise.
He fought his corner in the last spending round and saved us from further crippling cuts, he even got a small increase.
That’s more than Hammond or any of the previous ‘professional’ politicians in his chair did.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was back stabbed purley because he wasn’t your typical yes man lap dog, like so many of the self serving idiots that run our lives appear to be..
Today he’s said, “put up or shut up” to May, show your evidence.
A very risky, indeed foolish strategy if he was a guilty man….
The whole thing stinks if you ask me.
@John Clark – I will bypass the conspiracy theory if I may but as to your last point he knows the PM cannot ‘put up’ anything publicly given it relates to the NSC and the Official Secrets Act. So its nothing more than bravado and an empty threat. And the PM has no need to ‘put up’ anything. She can hire and fire (as all PMs can) as she chooses at any time of her choosing. And she chose to fire him. End of discussion.
I agree it stinks but not for the reasons I assume you do. Williamson was a bit too sharp for his own good and was caught out. If the National Security Adviser tells the PM there is adequate proof that “no other credible version of events to explain this leak has been identified” it would be dangerous to assume he hasn’t used all and every means at his disposal. And remember who the people are and with whom he has access to their capabilities: GCHQ to name one.
Chris, I appreciate your good points, but I still think he’s a scapegoat and been stabbed in the back.
I will watch with great interest to see how this develops and see if Gavin quietly goes away, or puts the boot in, I hope it’s the latter and helps get rid of May, sooner than later.
The Tories need to get it together soon, or their party is toast.
Just my jaundiced view on the situation….
@John Clark – This may surprise you but I have been a Tory voter all my life and first voted in 1970. But I cannot in any way support this Government and Cabinet of treacherous creeps who cannot be trusted and I am now for the first time in my life a paid up member of a political party. I won’t say which for now …
John Major had the same problem over europe and 18 years in power, Labour came a cropper over debt and 13 years in power and now the Tories after 9 years. And Europe – AGAIN!
Now this may also be a surprise but I actually believe Theresa May has made ONE mistake and that was to try and please all the warring factions in our Remain Parliament and pleased none. When you look at how Remainers are warring with ERG who are warring with Change 2nd voters who are warring with the DUP and the lot are warring with the Labour Party playing politics is it any wonder she came back with a clusterf**k of a deal. And of course we must remember the EU have been doing all they can to defeat the UK, interfere in our internal affairs and make us change our minds. She was handed a poisoned chalice and there was only ONE way to deal with it – Tell the EU we want an all round deal agreed before the end of March 2019 or Leave immediately on WTO Article 24 terms for 12 months and let the EU come to us. But she tried the Chamberlain approach and ended up with the same result. I admire her intention (which was to actually leave the EU) and tenacity and her ability to keep going but she made the wrong choice and is now putty in Corbyn’s hands. We need a General Election
Chris, I absolutely agree, 100%. I would relish a general election!
I have always voted conservative, but when the Parliamentarians (of both colours) made the desisive decision to reject the democrat vote, I have shifted my colours, I voted for indipendents and will vote for the BREXIT Party when possible from here on in.
The government as it stands, needs to go in my opinion, I relish a general election!
You just named the party I just paid £25 to join …. Brexit Party. We the Quiet Majority, the ones who were never asked by pollsters and forgotten by the MSM before the vote, have been abused and talked down to by the noisy Remainers aided by the MSM, BBC, SKY etc for 3 years and denied our decision by some 350 MPs. 178 of whom are Labour MPs in Leave seats. People like Pixie Balls-Cooper.
But we now have a new platform and a voice and we will NOT go quietly and be rolled over like we do not matter. WE are the Quiet Majority who will now have our voices heard. We will win the Euro elections and then the Peterborough by-election.
Morning Chris. You’ve finally come over, great news. If the establishment thought the egg on their faces in 2016 was bad they have seen nothing compared to what is coming.
Hi again Daniele – Oh yes a few broken eggshells! Well I guess I saw the truth when Major conned us over Maastricht and was against the whole EU experiment. Blair just made me actively fight back and so I talked the talk. In 2016 I got off my arse and was an Area organiser for Vote Leave, walked the long walks and delivered a 60% Leave vote.
As a lifelong Tory it was hard yesterday to vote for anyone else so I registered my disgust by writing ‘NOTA – WHAT’S THE POINT?’
But for May 23rd I will be campaigning again and this time we will get a 70% Leave vote
That’s what I meant by “coming over”
I remembered you’d detailed your activities while still a Tory years back on here. Campaigning to leave where’s I’d long before defected to UKIP.
Now UKIP has been tainted by the far right most of its decent law abiding patriotic supporters need to move over to the Brexit Party.
And let’s see how things unfold over the next decade….
Daniele and Chris, we represent many, many, angry voices …..
The Conservatives have lost my vote in every capacity, from local to national elections, until there is a decisive change in their direction.
Alas, there are those in the party who think that the ‘message’ they were sent by the public in the local elections, is to deliver BREXIT soon, but they think that means agreeing to a permanent Customs Union with Labour is what’s required……!!
Quite astonishing, it shows the distance that’s opening up between the Tories (and large parts of the Labour party) and their respective voters.
So incredibly out of touch…..
I’ve come to the decision that the current Conservative government is utterly fractured and beyond saving.
I hope the encouraging start to our BREXIT party, continues to flourish and mature into a proper party of government that ultimately throws the Tories over onto the opposition benches along with Labour.
Interesting times gents….
@John Clark – So very much my thoughts as well. And as you say the Remain thought process immediately kicks in amongst those in power and seeking power. We should remember that to the EU ‘Reform’ means ‘More of the same’. So May & Corbyn will now fabricate ‘More of the same’ and it will fail the country. Compromises always do and why (for the best of intentions) May sought compromise and pleased no one. And before a certain someone piles in with comments about her ‘Red Lines’ lets remember at least HER ‘Red Lines’ reflected the decision of the electorate (even if she came up with totally the wrong solution over NI) while Corbyn also has ‘Red Lines’ (like the CU) that can mean all things to all people. Chameleon politics at its worst.
How could the Tory party that was renowned for its firmness of hand on the tiller of the good ship Government descend into such chaos?
For me the doubts crept in when Cameron decided to support one side of the Brexit debate against the other having been forced by the UKIP surge to call that referendum. He immediately sowed the seeds of division and wrote his own resignation letter with that stupid taxpayer funded £9 Mn Leaflet. He thought he was being safe and clever and was neither. He made promises he had no intention of keeping, made the fatal mistake of backing a losing side while insulting half the electorate so he had to go. He should have remained (excuse the pun) neutral as Prime Minister and kept the Government neutral and let the battles be fought with free rein to all. He could then have said ‘OK I hear what you say’ and then negotiated from a position of strength of a majority in Parliament and in the country.
Sadly we are where we are and all our troubles stem from that (IMHO) fateful set of decisions. As for the Brexit Party I grow more impressed the more I see the calibre of the candidates. Let the Remainer and Momentum / Lammy Trolls call THIS party ‘racists and Nazis’ when there are people of all religions, backgrounds, races and political persuasions all dedicated to one cause – Democracy and obeying the will of the electorate. I was at Clacton and the energy was palpable and you could see it replicated in Newport, Newton Abbott, Fylde (where they filled a football grandstand!) and elsewhere on YouTube. I hope they develop a Centrist domestic policy in due course but first we MUST destroy those who would deny us on May 23rd.
Beautifully put Chris, I wholeheartedly agree with every point you made.
It does feel different this time dosent it.
I know they have the European elections firmly in their sights, but they must see the huge groundswell of opinion that’s right behind them.
The team Nigel is building is very impressive, I would like to see some moderate ex Labour people joining the top team too, as we need this to be an unashamed pro British party of the centre and not purley right wing in its views.
We must also take moderate labour support with us to have an ultimate shot at Downing Street.
Anything is possible these days guys and it’s all to play for.
Let’s sweep this broken two party system into the gutter, where it belongs and deserves to be.
@John Clark – You mentioned a need for people from the Left? Sadly I am old enough to recall many Eurosceptic speeches from Tony Wedgewood-Benn when he laid out clearly every fault and reason to NOT be in the then EEC let alone the EU and he was pretty much a ‘Leftie’. I will dig out one of his best speeches …
I watched Claire Fox (via YouTube) at Fylde in the North West and she gave both barrels. Here is an interview for the (Remain biased) Times and Sunday Times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayw9Xxdk-a0
Found it. And just note what he says is the most important thing? Democracy!
https://youtu.be/dQY2CHx4d3U
Tony will be spinning in his grave at the antics of his son…
With you all the way Chris.
Can I, courtesy of the BBC, try and put some reality into what has happened. Some people seem to think its ‘OK’ to just breach the Official Secrets Act and those who do are some sort of hero if it suits their political outlook. These are the same folks who thing WikiLeaks was a great idea of course ….
So I will quote verbatim with due credit to BBC security correspondent Gordon Corera
“Sources maintain damage has been done by the leak.
It was not of the most sensitive possible information. That would be details of intelligence sources and methods.
A leak in Washington a few years ago pointed to the fact that there was an agent inside a group planning attacks on the West from Yemen. That put the agent’s life at risk and compromised a valuable stream of intelligence.
The Huawei leak related to a policy decision. But the damage lies in relations with allies.
The US has been campaigning hard for Huawei to be excluded from new 5G networks.
The leak may not have fully captured the restrictions to be placed on the company even though its role was approved. And because the decision was leaked within hours of the meeting ending, there was no chance to explain the decision to Washington.
The day the leak appeared, a senior official from America’s National Security Agency spy agency spoke to me to reiterate Washington’s concerns and days later a State Department official told me that the US would have to re-evaluate information sharing with allies that used Huawei.
That official also came to London to continue the push. And so the frustration from UK officials is that their ability to explain the policy to the public and to allies was compromised by the speed and substance of what was revealed”
As Harold Wilson once observed “Its the consequences dear boy – the consequences”. So as is noted its not just the fact the OSA was breached (bad enough) but HOW it was done so preemptive advice to allies could not be given in time. It also damages our national reputation (hard earned) for being one of the best intelligence and security minded countries. One on which others can rely.
“These are the same folks who thing WikiLeaks was a great idea of course..”
Wikileaks was a public service, a brave fantastic one at that. Too long governments have covered things up and treated us like fools. More of that I say.
@SoleSurvivor – Well once again we disagree my friend. We have secrets and intelligence and security services for very good reasons the main one being our National Security. No one, not even Julian Assange who clearly feels he is above the law and Gods Gift to humanity, has the right to unilaterally jeopardise this country or its allies and the millions of people dependent on those secrets remaining secret.
Having secrets does not infer we are fools or anyone thinks like that. We stay safe by keeping one or as many as possible steps ahead of those that would threaten our way of life. When some self indulgent egotist like Assange decides to corrupt people and then decide what is and is not important he gets people killed. He threatens the people taking daily risks to keep us safe who live under cover and are ‘behind enemy lines’. His actions jeopardise us the people. We never gave him that right.
So would you have supported Assange if in WWII he had listed every SOE operative in Europe (as he did with other operatives on WikiLeaks) because he believed Churchill was ‘treating us like fools’?
I am sorry to disagree again but we HAVE to trust those in power to keep us safe. We have to trust the security services to act in our best interests. And we have mechanisms in Parliament that scrutinise their behaviour as well the NSC being just one. All underwritten by democratic legitimacy as dictated by the electorate. (Although I will agree that democracy right now is being traduced in other areas).
And I do actually agree with you about Williamson, He should of been sacked and I am behind Mays decisions as well as the new appointment, I think Williamson had more of an eye on No 10 than what’s best for public knowledge.
I just took a tiny issue with the wikileaks reference.
Hopefully you read my reply before it was removed, for what I have no idea, this site is getting a bit pathetic now.
@Solesurvivor – No worries my friend there is a reply still there and I am pleased we agree more than I realised. And yes I have also had posts removed. I suspect some fragile people have found the ‘flag’ icon top right …
@SoleSurvivor – Just a bit more on missing posts. I have just had 6 posts re-instated as ‘approved’. Its only a suspicion but I think the new system allows people to use the ‘flag’ icon and report a post they dislike (rather than just down vote it), it is removed, assessed and then if approved re-instated. All mine were addressed to one individual so for me its pretty obvious what went on.
Its a pathetic way to act to engage in a public forum and then when challenged try to get people removed and shut down. Speaks volumes about those sort of people. You and I strenuously disagree about stuff but we keep it civil. Long may it continue.
I quite agree. I posted this morning about the US UK relationship and mentioned Obama. That’s missing too.
But that is not in any way a complaint about the system here, just the way it is until it is reviewed.
The flag should be for trolls or abusive behaviour.
Not for opinions that one disagrees with and wants hidden. Echoes of PC, which tries to close down viewpoints of the right which the liberal elite find non palatable to their world view…See ongoing clamp downs on social media.
It’s back. I can’t say who reported it but someone flagged it as personal abuse. I don’t think people realise it’s humans that need to review the comments.
What about mine from yesterday on this thread George? It went missing after five minutes.
@George Allison – My comment was not in any way a criticism of the reaction by yourselves that has to happen but the sad snowflakes who abuse the system for their own ends. The fact you re-instated all my ‘flagged’ comments says more about the individual playing games than yourselves or indeed me.
I understand completely why the ‘flag’ is there and it should remain but of course only you see who the main complainants are and the remedy is therefore in your hands. Thanks for all you guys do by the way.
Thanks for that mate maybe mine will come back on some time today. And yeah I agree its silly, think that’s the third time this hasn’t happened to me now, I wouldn’t mind but I was in work when I was replying, you know as well as I do that writing a long post in a debate can take a bit of time, when cross referencing facts etc etc, then to have it removed after 10 mins haha. It’s just made me think why bother.
And of course Chris, when you’ve debated as long and hard as we have on here, that still hasn’t been matched in length and passion, there comes a level of respect and understanding, you’re an intelligent man with bags of knowledge that I’ve taken many bits of information from, it’s good to have you back commenting.
@SoleSurvivor – The cheque is in the post mate …
?
“that the US would have to re-evaluate information sharing with allies that used Huawei.”
Don’t get why, and seems like an empty threat, as I believe the agencies involved in UKUSA have their own Intranet and communication networks separate from the public network. They are hand in glove ( NSA / GCHQ especially ) you cannot exclude one without damage to the other.
This 5G Mobile network with proposed involvement by Huawei should not be a part of any of that.
@Daniele Mandeli – Well don’t forget we are dealing with the USA where the slightest irritation is converted into a major crisis so they can apply maximum leverage to bend others to their will. Witness the recent visit by House Speaker Pelosi where she was throwing threats about ‘No FTA’ and instructing how the UK should manage its internal affairs over the GFA and Brexit. I wouldn’t mind but most Yanks don’t have a clue about these issues and forget they helped fund 30 years of IRA terrorism.
I likewise cannot see what the real security issue is here given no state security data would ever be put out on a public Internet anyway. Well not deliberately so. But if there is a sniff of risk about Huawei then we should just find someone else or better yet build our own. I fear the world is getting far too reliant on products made by the Communist Chinese state and its suppliers.
I believe BT provide much of the GTN Government Telecommunications Network ( not sure if that is its current name ) and have just read elsewhere they themselves have decided not to use Huawei products, unlike other providers who are already.
This business with Gavin Williamson is really distracting from the main issue – why are HMG still proposing to allow Huawei access when there is any doubt?
Which British company makes these products, I have no idea?
I know what you mean about the Americans. We have to be careful though, for right or wrong our Intelligence alliance relies on them, and them on us.
So one of the better MoDs is being sacked for what venial sin, exactly?
Breach of the Ministerial Code and Breach of the Official Secrets Act? Not that any ‘sin’ needs to have been committed. The PM can hire and fire as she / he pleases.
If it turns out to be true, that Huawei is indeed hiding back doors in its equipment to enable Chinese Intelligence to spy on Britain’s network, what to make of May if she has indeed ignored advice from ministers or even from her own security services and 5 eyes allies?
Considering just a few weeks back she was labelling Corbyn a security threat in Parliament then it’s all a bit rich isn’t it?
Sounds like a job for Captain Blackadder, Operation Winkle, to winkle out the spies!
First of all, could the DT be asked to deny that it was GW that blabbed. if they dont come out with a denial then we must assume it WAS him.
Second, with the Foreign Secretary on his way to China for trade talks the UK could not tell them that Huewei were to be blocked from bidding.
Third, it was only proposed to allow them to bid for hardware such as aerials etc, not the servers and the software.
Fourth, the UK sold off all home build capability to Sweden and Italy we couldnt build 5G ourselves.