Germany is advancing plans to reintroduce national service as part of a broader initiative to enhance both national and NATO defence capabilities to deter Russia.
In an announcement from the German Ministry of Defence, it was revealed that new legislation, recently approved by the Cabinet, will be debated in the Bundesrat and Bundestag early next year.
In a tweet on November 6, the official account for Germany at NATO (@GermanyNATO) outlined the purpose behind this move:
“GERMANY is planning to reintroduce national service to strengthen its national and collective deterrence & defence capabilities and build up a strong reserve. The new legislation was approved by the Cabinet today and will be debated in the Bundesrat and Bundestag early next year.”
Under this proposal, all men will be required to complete a digital questionnaire upon turning 18, while women will be given the option to participate. The Bundeswehr will then select the most qualified and motivated candidates to serve a term of six to 23 months.
Under the new system, men will have to fill out a digital questionnaire when they turn 18, while women will have the option of doing so. The #Bundeswehr will choose the best and most motivated candidates, who will do military service for a period of six to 23 months. 2/2
ā Germany at NATO (@GermanyNATO) November 6, 2024
This system aims to create a more efficient process for identifying suitable candidates, ensuring that Germanyās armed forces remain well-staffed and capable in an era of heightened security concerns.
A follow-up tweet from @GermanyNATO added further details on the new system:
“Under the new system, men will have to fill out a digital questionnaire when they turn 18, while women will have the option of doing so. The #Bundeswehr will choose the best and most motivated candidates, who will do military service for a period of six to 23 months.”
The reintroduction of national service follows years of debate, reignited by the war in Ukraine, over the potential benefits of conscription in bolstering Germanyās military ranks. When conscription was abolished in 2011, Germany also ended the registration of 18-year-olds for military call-ups, resulting in a lack of a structured database of eligible recruits.
The new questionnaire is intended to address this gap, allowing the Bundeswehr to more effectively identify and select individuals who meet the demands of military service.
Given the German Government has also effectively collapsed and will be going for elections in the New Year as well, it will be interesting to see if this gets through before that.
Probably not. German Conscription always was a complicated system with a lot of opt outs for Zivie Dienst (in fact one of the reasons it stayed for as long as it did was so that people would continue to be Zievie’s). It’ll take more than a few months to set up.
Good. Starmer take note.
Nope. Don’t take note. Conscription wasn’t needed during the actual cold war, it would be unwelcome in our armed forces now.
Conscription in the UK is nearer than we might think. A reduced commitment to European defence under a Trump administration would require serious consideration in Westminster. Another reason to consider ‘National Service’ is one way to stem the growing right-wing elements witnessed in the 2024 summer riots.
How do you suppose they stem the left wing elements that led to this situation in the first place? It’s illogical to expect the USA to take European defense more seriously than you do.
Don’t understand your logic…sorry.
“left wing elements that led to this situation in the first place?” yeah you’re gonna have to explain that one to us
It’s no secret that Europe slid to the left after the Cold War. This prioritized the NHS, free schools etc, while defense was eroded into dust. The same elements were sending volunteers to the US election, to assist with the losing campaign. Now European defense is going to be a crisis.
As an example, the Germans don’t even bring actual weapons to training engagements because they have none to spare.
Ummā¦couple of things 1) the NHS was appropriately prioritised..simply because we are getting older and require more healthcareā¦or we could let the old die. Also a healthy national health system is one of the fundamental requirements to fight a modern total war. I can go through the history of our health system if you like but I assure you itās intrinsically linked to the last four major wars this nation had to fight. The creation of the NHS did not happen at the end of WW2 for no reason. 2) free schools is a right wing concept not a leftwing… Read more Ā»
You think that the Conservatives are right wing?
Nonsense, they all came to the center where the votes are. That is why the Liberals are virtually extinct.
The Liberal Democratās are actually doing very very well indeed, infact they are at a high watermark. The reason the Lib Demās suffered was that they signed up with a conservative coalition. And if you think the party that voted in kemi is not right wing, you really have not had much contact with conservatives party members.
In times past but still relatively recent the Liberals were a major party.
Their demise started in the 50s and 60s for the reason I said.
We obviously have a different idea of right wing.
A protest vote.
Regardless of seats Reform actually got far more votes.
What are you talking about? Tories 121 MPs, Lib Dems 74 I think.
It’s the Tories that were nearly obliterated into 3rd place party. Hopefully next election the loons in the Tory party will be booted into 3rd place and Lib Dems will be the opposition party.
Chris. Can I pick at some of these points? Devil is always in the detail and very few things are absolute. There is a difference between the need for some more health services and “spaffing” ever more uncontrolled sums of money into the highly dysfunctional and inefficient public health service. That would be dumb enough but the over-politicisation of the NHS into an unofficial state religion by politicians risk criticism and calls for reform being labelled blasphemy. Education is great. However the expansion of University education from covering 19% of 18 year olds in 1990 to 36% in 2023 is… Read more Ā»
Hi Cog the problem is there has never ever been buckets of money spaffed at the NHS, thatās a literal difunctional message that generations of politicians of all sides have fed the British pubic because no one is interested in the simple truth that a good western health system costs far far more that the British public have ver been willing to pay. Our big problem is that the treasury decide how much the NHS gets paid for the treatment it provides and that has little or nothing to do with the amount of healthcare required or the actual cost… Read more Ā»
Jonathan I’m happy with my use of the word “Spaff”. Whilst it’s true expensive thngs are expensive it’s also true that money misdirected to wasteful things is a waste.I’ve worked in both the private and public sector and trust me there is no comparison in terms of operational efficiency. Primary healthcare is a dysfunctional mess which seems to be run for benefit of GPs not the public. Money devoted towards Primary healthcare should go towards servicing the public not golfing holidays. Also do you think 212 Health Trusts is enough? Maybe there’s a few administrators looking for some work somewhere… Read more Ā»
A few things. Re health trustsā¦the number of these has very little to do with the NHS and a lot to do with central government politics..you have to understand why NHS foundation trusts were created. It was a way to break up the state owned element of the NHS into small chunks that could then bid for contracts and when the time was right moved to become private or third sector organisations. āAndrew Lansleyās White Paper, Liberating the NHS, promised again to release NHS providers from central government micro-management and to increase foundation trustsā freedoms to create the largest social enterprise… Read more Ā»
Jonathan thanks for your comprehensive reply. I appreciate the time you’ve taken to reply and the detail.I don’t work in the health centre and I have only a tangential understanding of it based upon colleagues who do or my own experience of using it. Your reply helps explain a lot of the dysfunction. I think my autistic layman’s view of this is that the NHS seems to be configured less than optimally and its run by clowns who want us to treat it as some sort of religion. Crticism is treated as blasphemy and holding leaders to account is met… Read more Ā»
Indeed I donāt disagree, but the really important thing to remember is that the present insanity is not because NHS senior managers want it that way itās that politicians forced it to be that way..if I had my way the structure would be completely reformed and it would be removed from political control. The fragmentation is entirely central government driven. It would really suprise you how much central control and interference in the NHS there is. NHS senior managers will not ever admit it because itās not their job to undermine those they report to ( the Secretary of State… Read more Ā»
few things. Re health trustsā¦the number of these has very little to do with the NHS and a lot to do with central government politics..you have to understand why NHS foundation trusts were created. It was a way to break up the state owned element of the NHS into small chunks that could then bid for contracts and when the time was right moved to become private or third sector organisations. in essence foundation trusts were created to allow the creation of a marketplace that could then replace the state owned part of the NHS. The problem is that unfortunately… Read more Ā»
It’s called Labour. A cabinet made up of largely left wing trade union members who are hell bent on levelling society…downwards.
Yep, that’s about the size of it…
I’ve had a good few discussions regarding inheritance tax of late, there are two intractable positions…
The wrong one:
“They have assets and should pay”
The right one:
“It’s government sanctioned grave robbing on property and goods that have already been paid for and taxed too”
My position on this grossly unfair socialist tax is abolish it, or do the people ‘socialist’ thing and apply it to everyone.
God knows we have had some wet blankets over the last 25 years John but for pure arroagance and smug faces this lot take the biscuit….actually along with a lot of our money!
It would also not be popular on the right, which is massively anti anything state controlled and that involves putting restrictions on what people can do.
Not to mention it would be a complete waste of money. It’s not free and way better to spend that money on a regular army that is fully trained and willing to fight.
Plus our economy is massively short on low skilled and semi skilled workers, not sure taking out young people from the working population is going to be help with that.
The thing is putting conscription into your army is a massive structural dead weight. Suddenly a significant portion of your armed forces are committed to constantly training large new intakes, as after 18months you have a nearly 100% outflow and the inflow has to match. The professional force largely becomes geared towards maintaining that. You have a corresponding loss of esprit de corps, and moral, as people really are marking time until they can go into civie street again. Work with professional troops who are doing that and you the difference between them and ones who are in the job… Read more Ā»
Europe may not take its defence as serious as it should. But Article 5 has only ever been triggered by 1 country. And almost a thousand Europeans died answering that call. let alone the Billions that was spent on it.
The UK needs National Service like it needs a hole in the head, it will cost a substantial amount of money which isn’t there.
I don’t think you understand just how serious the situation could become if there is a drawdown of US military commitment regarding Europe. National Service may be the only way to increase our land forces so more menial tasks can be cascaded to NS personnel, thus releasing trained professionals for the frontline. As for costs, this new government has got a shock coming in terms of defence spending along with all major European countries.
National Service ended here 1960 – 1963,unlike some of our Continental cousins where it stopped relatively recently we have completely lost the culture and any enthusiasm for it. However it is dressed up I can’t see it getting any traction. In an extreme National Emergency obviously it will be all hands to the Pump but that is not likely as far as I can see. BTW the so called Right Wing ‘ elements theory has pretty much been debunked, it was just an excuse used by incompetent Politicians.
We really donāt need national service..we need an appropriately funded professional army like the one that faced off the Soviets in the 70s and 80s. No a load of potato peelers that take up the time of the professional soldiers to look after. what would be better is making it easier to join op for a short service stint as well as better retention, including bonuses for retention etc. what we do need is some very serious effort around civil defence as we need a proper civil defence service if we were in a major war. That is where we… Read more Ā»
A drawdown, is that the same as a reduction?
As Paul said, National Service ended long before the Cold War did. But I want to touch on your idea that “Trained Professionals” should be released to the front line… I’m sorry what?
Some of the most highly trained people in the military are rear echelon, signalers, medics, engineers, gunners, int, etc. Being competent in storming a trench, or calling in fires is far from the only skillset the military needs competency in.
It should be a contingency for if the worst happens. But I think what we really need is to refund & expand all the forces on a professional basis so we have credible conventional forces, properly equipped to defend Europe & deter our enemies. Trump must not be allowed to sell out free, independant, democratic UKR, or any ex-soviet nations Putin may try at next. Apeasment is terrible, but downright treachery, betraying allies is a crime on a whole new level.
If the USA won’t defend Europe, then we absolutely have to do it ourselves.
I agree we need a suitable well equipped Force level but successive Governments aren’t prepared to fund it. I’m still baffled by the belief that another Trump term poses a danger to NATO unity – all he wanted was for the shirkers to pull their weight and spend the appropriate amount of GDP on Defence. I would have paid serious money to have seen the look on Angela Merkel’s face when he handed her a 200 billion Dollar bill š²š.
It would be a start if we approached reserve training like the Swedes do.
It is an expected part of the social contract. A lot of people enjoy it.
here in NZ, the Defence Force is looking to offer youngsters a “gap year” in the military. Kind of of a try before you buy experience. I think the idea has merit.
Just building on your comment SB, I generally enjoyed attending annual call up camps post my national service stint. In fact, I volunteered to go during my Uni breaks, students always need money! Good to catch with my Air force mates too.
Appreciate this is a sample of one and 35-40 years ago!
My point is that it is optional – you opt for that track so it doesnāt undermine the professional ethos of UK armed forces.
If I was 20 years younger Iād be quite happy to spend a month every year on a training rotation on a ship etc.
Sadly the way reserves are used in UK is as boring as it could possibly be so it is not seen as a viable part of the social contract.
That is why I see merit in the Swedish and Finish method of National Service.
… but presumably (by your logic at least) there’s no need to apply it to the well funded and organised left-wing elements that have been prevalent on our streets every weekend for the last 13 months attached to Palestinian protests?
No thank you, I’m skeptical on their usefulness and the costs required, like Sunak’s proposal pre election gimick.
However, can we look again at the Regular Reserve and make efforts to resource it? If that is even possible I am not sure what resource would be required?
Create “Shadow Regiments” along County lines paired with a Regular formation, each County Regiment having sub units of specialists depending on what they did in their time of regular service – Logistics, Medical, Infantry, and so on??
Why waste skills and experience that so much money and treasure has been expended to create?
Hiya D. An interesting idea taking shape here in NZ… The defence force is planning to offer young folk a “gap year” in the military. Sign up for one year, if you like it, stay. If not- all good, thanks for your service, feel free to join the reserve.
I’m liking the idea and hope it progresses.
Evening mate. Has it resulted in many takers?
We have non commitment voluntary units here for university students.
The UOTC, URNU, and UAS units for the Army, RN, and RAF.
I don’t know how successful they are in getting members to go on to a military career though.
still in the pipeline Bud -will let you know if it goes ahead in 2025.
So a poor kid is going to potentially defend a city full of non native speakers of hatred from other cultures, not on my nelly
Too many foreigners here for that I think. Good luck convincing young men of foreign descent to fight for or serve a country they at best are ambivalent towards, and at worse despise
I completely acknowledge they are different countries, with different attitudes towards immigration historically, but the US military manage it fairly well. Minorites are overrepresented in the US military and the social mobility for second and third generation migrants (stable government job, healthcare, respect of society etc) is credible. But I agree that there is a growing ambivalence towards our society. Perhaps a step in the right direction would be providing citizenship for those who serve from the Commonwealth, which we don’t presently.
Did this come along with a huge order of broom sticks?
Given that the weapons recapitalisation is funded how are they going to manage a large upswing in people without the funds for barracks kits and synergic training aids?
Square bashing wonāt help anyone.
Probably will be a return to the conscription of the 2000’s rather than the Cold War model.
I’m guessing men don’t have the option of not doing national service? haha.
They could probably deliberately muck up the questionnaire so there is no way of ever getting selected but yes, that gender distinction is a bit odd.
Equality when it suits them. All I can say is there will be women getting pregnant all of a sudden and a mass exodus of young non-Germans. I am curious about who isn’t eligible under the questionnaire criteria.
When conscription was a thing in Germany, everyone had the choice between military service and Zivildienst, either on medical or conscientious grounds, and residents of Berlin where always exempt from Conscription.
Since the German government retained the Civilian Conscription service as a Volunteer organisation, I see no reason why it wouldn’t still be an option for anyone who didn’t wish to be conscripted into the military.
Actually, in Germany, men have had the option of not doing national service.
can’t say i agree with it being optional based on gender
Well you have men saying Women don’t belong in the military at all, so the fact they can choose to be included in conscription is a step in the right direction.
I wonder if this proposal breaches German gender equality laws. We might see widespread transitioningš
A daft idea that won’t happen.
For the UK, increasing the volunteer reserve is a much better option to increase capability.
Except that large swathes of the Reserve is undeployable without both extensive and intensive training in the event of major international tension….and time for this won’t be available. Reserve training needs to be properly done at the outset: the US Army Reserve and NG do 10 wks Basic and 12 wks Special To Arm. Which is why they can field actual units. But there is zero chance of that happening here. The Reserve needs splitting: people like professional medics in the RAMS; 21/23SAS; 4 PARA, RLC who are actually truck drivers, FLT drivers, warehousemen in civilian life etc etc….everyone else… Read more Ā»
I have long been advocate for the draft, but six months? That is barely enough time to complete basic and in processing . Much less any kind of mos school or train for maneuvers as part of any kind of unit. Also how do they determine which number in the 6 to 23 month timeframe?
six months is woefully inadequate.
It might be enough to give someone a “taste”, someone who might not have considered it before.
Of course, the fundamental problem is recruitment, pay them more.
Look at the dire rates that British squaddies get.
I can just imagine vast UK hordes of vaping, texting, social.media obsessed youths dressed in gold chains and track suis being forced into the army, having extensive military training, based on being able to look further ahead than an arms lengt, being sent to some notional front line. I bet the Russian / North Koreans would be terrified!!
Have you seen the quality of Russian soldiers? Nobody is scared of a bunch of malnourished conscripts with ancient equipment.
The UK doesn’t need any sort of national service to improve numbers, it just needs to fix the piss poor recruitment death spiral we have been in for years. There’s enough applicants being rejected on trivial reasons or giving up after waiting for months on end to show that there are plenty of willing people who would serve. National service is also political suicide for any party, especially Labour with their generally younger voting pool. It would be ruinously expensive and the costs for training tend of thousands of teenagers would be better spent on getting better equipment for professional… Read more Ā»
How much can the poor recruitment be laid at Capita’s door? Seems they did a pretty good job of jerking applicants around…are they still “handling” recruitment?
Crapita has a lot to answer for, as far as I know they only handle recruitment for the army but also provide various other services to the MoD, including firefighting at HMNB Clyde and RNAD Coulport where they tried to cut personnel numbers (try not to panic too much). Fortunately their contract for army recruitment runs out this year.
Capita’s contract was renewed a few years ago, despite awful performance metrics. Will they be re-engaged as they were last time?
Given how many foreigners now live in Germany (and here), it’ll be fascinating to see how many are willing to serve their adoptive nation
They will either get an exemption or there will be mass exodus.
The reality is we need a well equipped professional army not a load of national service potato peels as the Russian army has. What would be good is more focus on reserve forces. What we could really do with is a good civil defence force. The reality of a modern war is mass civilian casualties and massive damage to core infrastructure. To keep ticking when the missiles fall on cities and infrastructure we will need a massive civil defence force..training people to support fire fighting, security, first responders and supporting for civil engineering etc is something that will help a… Read more Ā»
We would spend more time chasing the young “men” who didn’t respond than the use that could be made of them. We also have ten million immigrants of which roughly half are Muslim. Individually they do join the forces but as religious groups.? It would be a shambles.
Surprised they can get away with such blatantly sexist legislation. We’re all the same now apparently (and of course you can pick which gender you want to be).
Maybe about time. Can’t expect the Poles to shoulder the entire burden. Though if this goes forward it’ll be interesting to see if it’s matched with increased equipment levels.