Government responds to concerns over future of Hawk

That would be the sensible, forward thinking solution, beneficial to our industrial base, which is why they won’t adopt it.

Vaporware 🙄.

To be fair to BAE, they did have an advanced Hawk demonstrator in 2017 with more agile wing & F-35 similar cockpit. HMG should have bought some as the T3. They did not. So now we are where we are.

BAE developed a next genAdvanced Hawk in tandem with HAL in India,absolutely no takers though,even the RAF weren’t interested in it.

Interesting use of the term ‘circus act’ in my world that is usually if not used literally, used as an insult, ie cheap, disorganised, off the cuff and amateur et al. I assume that’s not your intent so what qualities do you associate it with and are applying by its use here?

It’s 1940 and the East End of London holds its breath as a circus act of Spitfires led by Squadron Leader Coco the Clown takes off to defend our skies against the evil Luftwaffe. Yep I’m scared.

The story of Britain, the more successful a product the less likely we are to build something to replace it (certainly soon enough) and foreign businesses who pick up the flow of replacement sooner use it as an opportunity to produce the next generation.

You’re blaming BAE? Why should they wait around for Britain to spend some money

Production of Hawk ended at Brough when the Qatar order was completed,is the Line still intact probably not.Production might be possible to transfer to Warton but that is a wild guess.

Yes, major engine issues on Hawk T2

Viable? Maybe. But not competitive with M346 and T-50 which are more modern designs.

Hmm well in the long term, the Bae Hawk does need replacement

To answer your question on the Hawk. The Hawk is a brilliant trainer aircraft. It’s aerobatic performance has only now be surpassed by the likes of the Leonardo M346 and KA-50. Although the original Adour engine is adequate, it was never outstanding, giving the aircraft an average thrust to weight ratio. However, due to aerodynamic “cleanliness” the aircraft retains a lot of energy especially doing high g turns. It could easily keep up with the initial F16A in turns for example. However, one area it suffers in is the high alpha and nose pointability, that aircraft such as the Typhoon and F35 can achieve. Which is where the M346 and KA50 excel.

All three aircraft are designed as lead-in trainers. This is supposed to introduce a relatively inexperienced pilot into using the aircraft as a weapons platform and introduce tactics on the employment of the weapons. But also to introduce a more complex cockpit environment to increase the understanding of mission management. The Hawk T2 has been introduced with a new wing and an uprated Adour, but also improved avionics. The idea is that the aircraft can now simulate other forms of avionics such as a radar, then show that simulated data on a widescreen display. This was done to lesson the technology change from the basic Hawk T1 to the F35.

However, this data is simulated. Whereas the KA50 and depending on the variant the M346 has radar, FLIR and feeds from designator pods, to give live feeds. Thereby giving the trainee pilot a much more realistic feel of what’s being displayed and how they respond to it. We now have the F35, whose avionic and sensor fusion is a step above Typhoon’s. Soon we will start getting an idea of what the cockpit environment of Tempest will be. Which is likely to be an evolution of the F35s, but also including a lot more interaction with drones.

This is the area that the Hawk struggles with. There’s only so much you can do with simulated data. Whereas with the other two aircraft there are significantly more options of what can be delivered to a trainee pilot via live feeds from avionics. Additionally these aircraft can carry a much more varied weapon load configuration, that matches the primary fighter aircraft. The Hawk could have been further developed with a newer high alpha capable wing and higher thrust engine. But its the avionic upgrades that should have been the primary focus. As it stands the T2 can’t compete with the M346 or the KA50.

I still feel the Aeralis advanced trainer, is trying too hard to be all things to all people. The idea of the aircraft being modular where you can just remove the basic trainer wings to the swept wing advanced trainer, is a commendable ask. But in reality is highly complex to achieve due to the differences between the centre of gravity and the centre of pressure that each wing type generates. How the flight control system then is programmed to control the aircraft depending on the wing set etc. Secondly what avionics fit are they going to have. Will the basic trainer version have the same as the advanced. Would the advance cockpit be too complex for a newbie pilot straight off Grobs?

Yes they can build and upgrade them.

Italian Industry has a good spread of Military Capabilities to market, I’d trust them.

Youi know they got Westland, Ferranti etc… ?

Blaming BAE is stupid

Maybe – lots of talk about mutual Trade Deals tied into the GCAP arrangement,Italy is looking at the P1 for MPA,it might be the case that Japan chooses the M-346 to replace it’s Fuji F4’s in return.A GCAP specific Trainer Aircraft is a possibility but very far into the future,it might even be done using Simulator’s like the F35.