Grant Shapps appointed as new Defence Secretary

100% correct pal ..

I think PR is the only policy they have that makes sense.

I think there is no chance of rejoining the EU without a legitimate referendum. I would expect rejoin to win that.

Well if you want to be like Italy sed to be, a government a year – PR is to go for, we are IMO better of the way we are.

At the moment due to lefty and remain scare politics – I dare say we would vote to rejoin.

That would be the biggest mistake ever – We are outperforming most of the countries in the EU.
“It has outperformed Europe’s three major economies — Germany, France and Italy, as well as Japan — since the pandemic. Who wudda thunk it?!” The new ONS figures suggested that the UK recovered strongly during 2021.”

Lots of lies told about the UK – Boris despite his faults is showing to have been the best leader in Europe.

ONS figures show just how well we really are doing compared to others.

Labour will win next time, mainly on immigration and lies about the economy and Tories having the worst PM communicator ever,

Rejoin the EU and then Rejoin the budget payers to facilitate EU – eurocrats lavish lifestyle.

” could do any worse” sets a terribly low bar Paul😂😂

To be fair, I think my current parish council could probably do a better job of running the country than either mob (and they are crap), I’m voting Reform Party in the next election as I don’t see any other other viable options for me….

Likewise mate.

I really hope others follow your lead, wiping out the Tory’s once and for all and having a proper right of centre, pro business party is what the country needs rather than the Old Etonian boys club we have at present masquerading as people who know what they are doing.

It’s looking that way Jim. I’ll never vote Labour as things stand with them, and respect that you’re of a different view.
So I see nowhere else to go.

Morning Daniele. Rishi is absolutely hopeless in my opinion. The UK needs a leader to get an old fashioned grip!! Boris?? If I was in the UK now I would have to vote Tory as the least bad of a very bad lot!
Cheers from Durbs my friend- a windy and chilly Spring Day- 16 degrees rising to 20 at lunchtime

Morning my friend. That is pretty much what we had to do last time. Both sides are pretty nadir sadly.

If Reform just takes over from the usual extreme right mix of Neo Nazis/Leavers/etc then it will not change anything.

If it manages to convince any normal right of centre voters to swing to the extreme right by pretending to be more moderate then that could destroy the UK just when people were waking up to how Putin played them with Brexit.

Current opinion polls put Tories and assorted more right wing groups at approx 30%. Then you have the Lib Dems as the moderate right. The situation on the left is more confusing with Labour then Greens over much of the Country; SNP, then Labour, then Greens in Scotland.

I suspect we will get a moderate Labour majority on the usual minority of the vote.

If you want to see something odd take a look at the City of Derby. I live in the Reform Fortress where we have 2 100% reform wards (6 councillor’s) in the council and one is now Mayor (Who I did my Apprenticeship with 40+ years ago).

I decided in the last few days that I’ll vote Reform too. The conservatives are just New Labour. High tax, centralising, big state, soft on defence, soft on democracy rudderless and culturally and morally “progressive”. Some of the worst woke idiocy has happened on their watch. Yes Labour will be worse but the end point is the same, they only differ in rate of change. And if Labour wins, so what, at least I haven’t compromised as many of my principles to keep the Conservatives in power. No one party will ever align with anyone’s views perfectly but the Tories are spineless and cannot reasonably be classed as conservative in any sense of the word.

You must have a better Parish Council than most then. 😂 I wouldn’t trust ours to do anything other than reduce the speed limit to 5 MPH. Personally I think that Kier would have been tempted to take legal action against Putin once Ukraine was ethnically cleansed. Not my idea of a Prime Minister. Would military support have been considered until it was too late (if ever)? History may well judge the Boris/Ben team less harshly than the hysteria which ejected him from office. I suspect we are back to the days of voting in the least bad leader. Not sure that the Reform party is going anywhere but I understand you frustration.

There is no left wing to have a coup, Starmer got rid of them all.

But did he? They’re still MPs aren’t they?

Not many, and the rabid ones are kept on a leash.

Was it Tim Farron – Christian beliefs/no abortion or some b/s, gone.
Tories watching porn in the Commons, gone.
Labour sex pest, gone
And thank fucking finally, Corby, gone.

All the parties have extremist elements – use the Royal Navy to “push back the boats.” Braverman.

I don’t need extremism in the Chamber, I want zeal to create a better Parliament that creates good laws for the benefit of this Country and creates an economic base for a well run, stand fast Army, military.

Well using the RN to push back the boats is extreme, but the notion that immigration is too high, and that many want it reduced, is not.

Neither party are willing to do that, and many who are naturally more right centre, me, believe Labour would be far worse in that regard.

Like your stance on both Tory Labour defence, both are poor. No sign of change.

Unfortunately, if you’ve no extremism in the commons you’ll still have ideology and party first politics. Cannot see that changing. The whole system is dead and corrupt to me until groups of SMEs run the nation.

You are joking I presume. Are you forgetting that Starmer himself supported Corbyn as did his deputy and most of the shadow cabinet. Bolt on left wing councils. the unions and Momentum. There are thousands of left wing activists right through the Labour party.

And Rish! Supported Bluffer.

What’s your point beyond gas bagging?

Gas bagging? Bit unpleasant don’t you think? In any case I was replying to Jim.

It’s the repetitive nature, Starmer supported Corbyn gas bagging.

The military support the CGS until they don’t. Tory MPs supported Bluffer until they didn’t.

Pure hot air.

The problem is that it is me your accusing of gas bagging. If I am then we might as well all give up saying anything as we are all expressing opinions. the worrying part is that if you honestly think Starmer has the extreme left on a leash I would say read more. The Tories may be incompetent but there not fanatics.

I don’t think the left wing needs to have formal power to advance their agenda . They control the media, TV/Cinema , advertising industry, universities, , Sir Humphrey is more like Commissar Humphrey, Royal Foundations and Quangos.
Plus now that they realised that a capitalist multinational can be a force to make us all alike they are also advancing there.

The problem that the Tories ran into is that they adopted an extreme interpretation of Adam Smith – to the extent that they actually believed that you don’t need a government because ( given enlightened self interest) the market would sort out economics, and economics sort out everything else. Privatise everything and regulate unsociable and criminal behaviour ( after people have been exploited). Hence ministers require few skills in real readership and communication; no requirement to inspire confidence – mediocre communication and management skills suffice – they manage to upset just about every other player who have vital roles in the governance of the country – the civil service, the legal profession, the EU, the NHS, the bank of England…in the Tory world, as my grandmother used to jokingly say when she was hinting you should examine yourself “ I’m alright, it’s all the others”. Schapps, Johnson, Truss, Hancock….an endless list of egomaniacs.
Only since Boris and Liz Truss have they realised that governing the country is a covenant between those who govern and those who are governed. King Charles understands this. That’s why the monarchy is so vital and so popular. And also why Ben Wallace was in a leadership class of his own. He had some humility. That he has resigned is significant – he understands the problem – the country has lost confidence in its leaders; those they elected to govern.

Good post Paul. I’ve been out of the UK for nearly 40 years now but still feel that it’s still a great country and has a great people. Just the “mob” in charge…
Ben Wallace for PM anyone?

That’s a good plan but it might take two elections to come close. Meanwhile there will likely be have been a massive population type shift.

The problem that the Tories ran into is that they adopted an extreme interpretation of Adam Smith – to the extent that they actually believed that you don’t need a government because ( given enlightened self interest) the market would sort out economics, and economics sort out everything else. 

maybe then you should explain the outrageous tax levels by Tories…

I dont think that they (as long as there is not a left wing coup after the election) could do any worse right now.

Of course they would be worse, expect even more political commissars in armed forces.
Woke and green political violence will get a huge step up.

😂😂😂😂🤣🤣

I think stramer saying nothing is a deliberate tactic, say nothing and nobody can challenge you on it. Or accuse you of u turning.

Whilst he’s saying nothing the tories are stumbling from one disaster to another, winning the election for him without him needing to play his hand.

👍

I’m sure I could if I could be bothered to look through the limp woke rouges gallery that passes for his ‘team’ Jim….

Their finest hour however, was getting Starmer to ‘ take the knee’ on TV, a toe curling piece of film, with the shadow leader looking deeply uncomfortable … You can see he thinks it’s the wrong thing to do, but his advisers convinced him anyway….

He’s no leader.

Best summed up by Barry above….

‘The trouble with Starmer is her gets up and says nothing, then a week later does a U turn‘ 😂😂

Can’t define what a woman is though – no genius then.

My grandmother used to say there’s no such thing as can’t…there’s only won’t. I think his latest pronouncement on the transgender issue is that a woman is ‘an adult female’. His opinion will magically follow that of the majority of SNP voters 😉

whoever is holding the handbag, is that right?? I struggle to keep up with what ever this weeks Woke mafia dictate is Nathan….

With ovaries ?
What about women who have them removed for medical reasons
I dont follow this culture war stuff, but medically theres something 2% of new borns who have ‘variations’ from the normal gender
Was at car body repair for some re painting 3 months back. Only a few employees , 2 women one of which was in the workshop. never would have that 10 years back. Its just easier for women to take on male characteristics and roles than the other way round. Growing up as a teenager my mother had long time friends from before married , a couple where one was a woman dressed as a man. This was 60s.
Seems like some have just woken up to what was all around but never noticed

The problem is that their case comes from La La land.

If by ‘their’ you mean the SNP I agree that those who subscribe to the view that you, and you alone can decide your gender are on weak ethical, philosophical and biological ground.

I think if someone pulls up their frock and clearly displays “the last chicken in the butchers shop” (with the accompanying bag of giblets) it’s a bloke.

Is that the right answer??

My goodness John. Those views will get you ‘cancelled’. 😂

I can’t keep up with what’s on trend Paul, I hail from a simpler time……

I don’t many of us can, John. In discussion this morning I was told of a speaker opening an event who was reprimanded for her opening remarks…’ladies and gentlemen’. Really it’s time to robustly push back and voice the truth. 1. Your chromosomes are XX or XY. There are only 2 values. 2. Perception is not the same as reality. You can change the former but not the latter. 3. You are not an island, your choices affect other people.

Absolutely spot on Paul, that’s two of us for the Police van then, anyone care to join us, we’ll have a sing along and a game of I spy on our way to the Woke Nuremberg trials….

I’ll be keeping you company then!

It is incorrect to say that there only XX or XY.

Do point me in the right direction and I will read up.

https://thefocusfoundation.org/x-y-chromosomal-variations/#:~:text=The%20X%20%26%20Y%20Variations%20include,XXYY%2C%20and%2049%2C%20XXXXY.

Thx

Also

https://www.health.vic.gov.au/populations/health-of-people-with-intersex-variations

Oh, I’ll bite…..

There is only XX and XY, that is an indispensable biological fact in human beings.

A person can decide to live as the opposite sex, they can take hormones and undergo surgery if they really want push it the whole way.

They are still the sex they were born as, pretending the reality of XX / XY chromosomes isn’t actually fixed biological fact, is simply delusional.

The fact that simple scientific ‘fact’ affronts some people, shows just how far society has followed the mad hatter down the rabbit hole..

It isn’t a fact though.

https://thefocusfoundation.org/x-y-chromosomal-variations/#:~:text=The%20X%20%26%20Y%20Variations%20include,XXYY%2C%20and%2049%2C%20XXXXY.

https://www.health.vic.gov.au/populations/health-of-people-with-intersex-variations

Exactly, Basic A-Level Biology is just that, the basics, once you actually look into it it’s a LOT more complicated than that.

If people don’t want to read, this Video by professional biolgist Forrest Valkai is a decent primer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szf4hzQ5ztg

Forest ang with Professor Dave are amazing science presenters

Yeah. Just finished wading through your conversation with John and his final “I won’t read your links” really sums up the Transphobic position. It just makes me sad and disappointed.

Yep.

Scottish business man in Cuba. At the bar drinking after a day’s work. A bearded revolutionary in military fatigues comes in, orders a drink. When the barman asks for payment the revolutionary taps his nose knowingly and says ‘ Castro’s army mate…its on the house for me’. The barman grovels and says, sure no problem. This happens a couple more times. The business man cottons on and the next time he orders himself a refill single malt he does the same thing, taps his nose and says Castros army. The barman says, come off it, you aren’t in Castros army, you don’t have a beard. So the Scotsman lifts up his kilt and says ‘secret service mate’. 🙂

🙂 🙂

😂🤣 spot on.

.

John ……. 20 police are on their way to your door…. They are just passing a bank robbery…..

Do you allow people to decide their own sexuality?

Yes that’s a behaviour.

Do you think that such behaviour is chosen? Or inherit within a person?

Did you reply and then delete it?

I did reply but it was too long and wandering it was deemed to be spam. So briefly then, I think the susceptibility or tendency to the behaviour is likely inherited but not in the same way phenotype – genotype way as characteristics like eye colour. I think it’s a sort of cultural inheritance – a memory of some severe trauma which affected the sense of self. The trauma may occur in your present life. When you try to counter its effects you suffer in some way, mostly mentally and emotionally. If you give way to it then you don’t suffer and other people carry you. That’s a sort of general rule which applies to all our human vulnerabilities.

So in short, if I may, all non heterosexuals are the result of trauma in childhood?

Do you have any evidence to back this up?

Is it any trauma? Would loss of a parent bring on homosexuality for example?

I’m fairly confident that if you delve into most people’s past that many (probably all) of us will have an ancestor who suffered major trauma in childhood, so I’m surprised that , based on you logic, there are any heterosexuals left.

You are now talking about “giving way”, “countering”, “suffering”. You are basically objectifying any people that you believe vary from your view of genetics, I am not offended by this attitude but I do find it quite frightening as you are basically treating all non heterosexuals as “broken”, and thus, I presume, in need of “treatment”

I have only anecdotal evidence from within my family so no, no scientific or statistical evidence.
I believe that the trauma theory was for time, an accepted view proposed by US psychologists; but it was abandoned; possibly because it became politically incorrect. As you say people have their pride and don’t like to be labelled as ‘broken’,
Nevertheless we know that the mind can be injured. Lots of servicemen suffer from PTSD for example. When you are blindsided in combat and the adrenaline is running high the brain suffers injury – nervous connections are broken which may take years to heal. During this time those affected need care and patience with their difficult behaviour.
Also, ‘trauma’ is a bit of a catch all and ‘childhood’ lasts a lifetime. A bereavement, parents splitting up, a significant humiliation, being cuckolded, an expulsion or forced migration can all leave their mark on the sufferer and very likely on their children since they will probably be born before their parents heal. We are all wounded, its only the depth that varies. And ‘treatment’ takes many forms. Pope Francis tells the truth when he says the Church is a field hospital for wounded. Life is a battle 😉

It was abandoned because it contained no evidence, and was itself ideologically inspired by people who desperately wanted non heater to be in some way suffering from a “disease”, and that this “disease” could be “cured”.

Harking back to ,”research” dating back to the 50s will reveal a lot, mostly nonsense, which reflected that societies desire to “cancel” certain , non mainstream, patterns.

Non heterosexual behaviour has always existed, it wasn’t invented recently, it is part of the norm, you, and Pope Francis might like to wash it away by implying that it is wrong, broken, not right but the evidence across human populations the world over is very much against you. In even the most intolerant societies non heterosexuals still exist, they may be persecuted, arrested, jailed, murdered, or simply beaten but they still exist.

We may not no why they exist but they do, they do not need to be tolerated, understood or treated.

We should simply accept people for that they are and not what we want them to be.

Several points there. Firstly it is instructive to parse the word ‘disease’ after the fashion of the holistic medics: dis – ease means literally to be in a state of mental or emotional unease. Secondly, as you say, physical or social rejection or mistreatment is wrong.
Thirdly ( and this applies to everyone) in its teaching and actions the church is seeking to minimise the damage you do to yourself and to others which tend to arise from your wounds. As the saying goes, hurt people hurt. Most often there is no cure for our problems, but you can adopt a lifestyle and join a community which minimises their impact. To quote the gospel, ‘ go and learn what this means, I want mercy not sacrifice’.
Fourthly, its worth researching the concept of epigenetics. I know of a family in the US whose 13 year old daughter started to lapse into trance like states in which she would speak fluent German – there being no possible way she could have learned that skill in her lifetime….but on her mothers side the family were 3rd generation German immigrants. I believe there are mechanisms which transmit memories directly down the generations.
Fifthly, its worth researching the topic of neuroplasticity. The brain can be rewired. Its a vital ability for stroke victims. Sages throughout the ages have known the power of prayer and meditation to restructure the brain…the healing of memories. Sometimes though you do have to open a wound and clean it so that it can heal. But you can do this gently by yourself; you don’t have to define yourself as a reject. In the words of the hymn ‘come as you are’. Research the Ignatian system of Daily Examen, an investment in a daily routine that will pay dividends.
Lastly, my advice is not to take too much notice of the Guardian or you will end petrified that the whole world is against you.
Take care.

Most non heterosexuals are (or would be) mostly perfectly at ease with themselves if it weren’t for statements such as yours and those of the church categorising them as “unwell”.

You are saying that it is a problem to be gay, but it simply isn’t that is you imposing your
Belief onto someone else.

As for religion I won’t be debating that here.

(Not just human populations btw, there’s a lot of Animal Homosexuality out there too.)

Until they choose it we dont know so it’s chosen surely?

Well, I for one do not believe that sexuality is chosen

Okay, if it’s a choice, try choosing to be gay for a week, and come back and tell me how that went. 🙂

Im sure it would be lovely if I was that way inclined.
What I was trying to say is that until you ‘decide’ what you are then surely you can ‘be’ anything…so in fact you have then ‘chosen’.I suppose its semantics.

It kind of is and kind of isnt is but it also important. So first the semantic point:
Let’s put it like this: do you remember when you “chose” to be attracted to women or was it just something that happened (assuming you’re cis-het-amab, apologies if not)?
It kind of sounds ridiculous when you put it that way round doesn’t it?
Now the reason it isn’t semantics: choice implies conscious action as opposed to something that just happens. It opens the door to things like conversion therapy or imprisoning homosexual people because they “chose” to be attracted to the same sex (and that’s the thin end of the wedge, there are Christians out there, especially in America, that believe being same set attracted should be punishable by death).

sexuality and sex are different are they not ?

Irrelevant.

“sexuality and sex are different are they not ?”

Redshift, Irrelevant….

In another time and place you would have done very well in the Spanish inquisition Redshirt…

Got to love the modern mindset of blinkered tunnel vision, it’s like a new religion, blindly follow or be screamed down by the baying mob …..

You are the baying mob old chap, demanding that you are right and others are wrong.

You are saying that sexual variants are chosen and not an inherent part of people’s lives.

You are the one telling people how they should be, based on your view of the world.

Sexuality is not a choice.

Are you gay? Bi? Lesbian?

If you are when did you choose?

Why have you chosen to change my nickname in your response?

If you can’t accept that there are two biological sexes, based on chromosomes, then crack on Redshift, hoist your rainbow flag with the chevron in the corner, representing all creeds, colours and all manner of body modification enthusiasts.

I believe the latest version of the flag incorporates a red umbrella too, representing sex workers … So make sure you’re up date with that one, don’t go missing anyone out now…😵‍💫😵‍💫🤯

Is there a colour, or shape on that strange flag for middle age white heterosexuals too, or are we discriminated against in this ‘brave new world’ ??

Enjoy, god speed and fair well.

https://thefocusfoundation.org/x-y-chromosomal-variations/#:~:text=The%20X%20%26%20Y%20Variations%20include,XXYY%2C%20and%2049%2C%20XXXXY

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex#:~:text=Intersex%20is%20a%20general%20term,male%E2%80%9D%20or%20%E2%80%9Cfemale%E2%80%9D.

I tried reading the links Redshift, unfortunately I lack the interest to trawl though it all…

Try re-educating the impressionable, easily influenced and gullible, it doesn’t work with me, never has…

Good day to you and have a lovely weekend.

The links simply show that their are far more variants than XX YY.

John, if you’re not willing to read and inform yourself then frankly, you’re the gullible.

Ill say the same to you Dern, have a lovely weekend 👍

Kind of hard to when it starts with something as depressing as having to read your position and lack of intrest in broadening your horizons, but I’ll try.

I won’t be biting today Dern, you take it easy mate…

It’s not an attempt at making you bite, it’s a genuine expression of sadness at a position that has directly resulted in assault on friends and family of mine and an unwillingness to engage with the actual science that characterizes that position.

Ohhh, its just occurred to me, you wouldn’t happen to hail from a certain troll farm on the outskirts of St Petersburg would you Redshift?

Is the MSB trying a new approach I wonder ?😉

I wish, I would love to be payed in a currency that is trying hard to find the wreck of the Moskva (sp.)!

In all seriousness though I only started off trying to point out that chromosomes are considerably more complex than they appear and really aren’t as binary as we are taught in school

Lets park this one up then Redshift, have a lovely weekend👍

I’m happy to do that, have a good one yourself 👍👍

Hi Redshift.

I’m a typical, middle aged heterosexual male. I know nothing on this subject, and only know a few gay guys in my job, and none are close friends.

Your comments and links on chromosomes are an eye opener to me, thank you.

And now it’s my turn to thank you Daniele, that at least cheered me up a bit.

👍 no worries.

And thank you, I remember becoming aware of the complexity of the issue from a TV series called the XYY man, from the seventies I think!

err no its not – surely that goes to very crux of the discussion?

Daniele, we’re going to fall out! I’ve never supported the Labour defence team!

David? I was not referring to you as it happens.

Daniele, two words…

Chill
Pill

🙂

Mate, I’m not stressed so on this occasion I don’t need to take one!
What did you mean by your town councillor post elsewhere. I’m confused?

You spoke of anyone on the Labour benches who had defence experience…

I sit on a Labour bench but only as a Town Councillor

(Failed attempt at humour).
.

Ahhh, sorry. If you’d mentioned that it has escaped me over the years.

In a serious post, I’m not sure a Guards Captain is really up there with ‘experience.’

He also misled Parliament with his address to Parliament on frigate numbers and Army numbers amongst other things.

West had experience but the years had shaped his view and I’m not sure he is/was balanced in his judgement.

Give me https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Collins_(British_Army_officer)

For any Party, and he would get my vote.

I know of whom you speak, and I agree.

On BW, maybe not. I think one must also take into account other roles. I believe he had “security” roles in HMG prioe6, which no doubt involved the intelligence services.

“Defence” as we know is more than RN, Army, RAF.

Did he? I missed that.

“Defence” as we know is more than RN, Army, RAF.

And Collins was actively in role across the spectrum… and only 63.

Is he? I know him for his famous speech while in the army and for his outspoken media comments regards defence.

But not in politics.

He was badged.

I think he went from a badged Major over to L/Col of the Royal Irish; others will know better.

I only met a badged Ranger who came over as CSM – and found out quickly I was on the wrong side of him… He corrected my mistake.

Yes, I’d heard he was with “them”

Lack of military experience needn’t be a problem, if the people with that experience are listened to. Now that if is traditionally a very big if…

South Africa but I am biased,

Might be our cuzzies in NZ!

Not if they play like they did last Friday, lol,

Ahh yes…..lol 😁

Made me feel very proud, particularly as an expat living in NZ! Go Boks !

No no . bokke all the way!

Agree SA just bet the Kiwis by the largest margin ever 7-39 I think it was.

7-35 I was at the game, nearly full house and Great atmosphere everyone having banter and a laugh.

You lucky sod Mick, I am hugely envious! Good coverage on the telly though .

And interesting that the Boks had no penalty goal points – all points scored off try’s and conversions. A remarkable performance by any measure.

The AB’s can blame themselves for being iIl disciplined, down to 14 men for pretty much the entire match.

Last G.E. was Dec 2019, so next one should be Dec 2024, although some are saying Jan 2025.

Thx for that dispiriting thought 😉

This country needs it much more quickly than that.

Mordant was on a Question Time? Politics Live? And really didn’t come across.

Not as much of a failure as Mercer, who was dire, but she was terrible.

Then again Tobias Ellwood and Tom Tugenhart really fail to project as well; for all they ‘served’ it doesn’t translate into public speaking and communicating with the populace.

… at times…

Mr Schapps is an object lesson in how to blagg your way to the top. At some point he will be found out. Let’s hope its not while he is secretary for defence.

A vote for Reform is a vote for Labour. Reform is centre right and is only going to take votes from on party.👉

Evening Quentin, The German Puma is £14.7m each. The price of complex AFVs is now huge – ‘Defence inflation’ is far higher than ordinary inflation.

We used to use wheeled APCs (with a MG) to accompany tanks (Saracen – 1952-1962), then adopted MG-equipped tracked APCs (FV432 – 1963-1987), then replaced that with the tracked IFV with a 30mm cannon (Warrior -1987 onwards).

If Boxer is issued to our armoured infantry in the armoured BCTs with just a MG, it will be just a wheeled APC – and many would think we have gone full circle and regressed.

I maintain that a modernised/new replacement tracked IFV for the Infantry is required to give the best mobility and firepower available. Cost issues should be second order, however it would have been far cheaper to upgrade Warrior than to buy Boxer for the AI.

Just a quick reply before work. Even as a total outsider, majority of Boxers as GPMG armed APCs sounds like a mad and wasteful decision, and a potentially deadly one. Hope for the Army that those in the know get listened to and a more balanced fleet mix happens. I wonder if they are rueing not doing the Warrior upgrade? Who knows. The Australian Army here has recently chosen the Redback IFV, in a smaller number (147 I think) that looks useful. The Ukrainian conflict is showing us all what works and what doesn’t daily.
We’re not getting that much coverage of this in the day to day news here. You hear bits and pieces. Must be bloody awful. Success to Ukraine. They know what they are fighting for.

Reported back on 5th April, there is an army committee looking into the Boxer lethality issue!

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2021/04/06/british-army-wants-more-punch-in-its-boxer-vehicle-fleet/

Not heard the outcome yet, some 5 months on.

We will probably be the only significant nation (apart from the French) who won’t have a tracked, cannon-equipped IFV for armoured infantry to mutually support tanks.

Evening Graham, yes remember that we had a thread on all this before. Sorry to bring it up again. I do know nothing, but seriously, all Boxers for IFVs, it looks bloody crazy, even deadly stupid. Whoever makes the final decision on all the Boxers, Mr Shapps?(?), with input Nicholas Hammond others, they really need to think about all the lads in those things going out into any conflict. Are we following the French on this for the same treason? Maybe i/we’re missing something. May a very sensible decision be made. As you and many others say, at least arm the Boxers with something more than a gpmg and some searchlights!

Going way back Boxers were meant to replace Saxons and the residual FV430s (that had not been replaced by Warrior). That was a fairly good idea.