HMS Queen Elizabeth will embark two F-35 Squadrons and a full rotary wing group.

A US Marine Corps F-35B squadron will join a squadron of UK jets on-board.

This is in preparation for next year when HMS Queen Elizabeth will deploy with two frigates, two destroyers, a nuclear submarine and support vessels.

Commodore Michael Utley, Commander United Kingdom Carrier Strike Group, is reported by Save The Royal Navy here as saying that HMS Queen Elizabeth will be escorted by two Type 45 destroyers, two Type 23 frigates, a nuclear submarine, a Tide-class tanker and RFA Fort Victoria.

When asked about whether or not the UK has enough escorts to do this without impacting other commitment, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:

“The size and the scale of the escort depends on the deployments and the task that the carrier is involved in. If it is a NATO tasking in the north Atlantic, for example, you would expect an international contribution to those types of taskings, in the same way as we sometimes escort the French carrier or American carriers to make up that.

It is definitely our intention, though, that the carrier strike group will be able to be a wholly UK sovereign deployable group. Now, it is probably not necessary to do that every single time we do it, depending on the tasking, but we want to do that and test doing it. Once we have done that, depending on the deployment, of course, we will cut our cloth as required.”

Air Marshal Knighton added:

“The escorts that go with the carrier will depend on the circumstances. The work-up for carrier strike group 21 will be with British ships, because we need to demonstrate and prove that we can do that, but we are already engaged with international partners to understand how we will integrate an Arleigh Burke destroyer from the US or a Dutch destroyer into that package.”

The vessel will sail later this month.

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Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
26 days ago

Could be interesting! I wonder how may escorts China will be providing?

China now has world’s largest navy as Beijing advances towards goal of a ‘world-class’ military by 2049, says US DoD

“Published on 1 September the report, often referred to as the ‘China Military Power Report’, states that the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) now has “a battle force of approximately 350 platforms, including major surface combatants, submarines, ocean-going amphibious ships, mine warfare ships, aircraft carriers, and fleet auxiliaries”, compared with the US Navy’s (USN’s) 293 ships using the same measure.”

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/china-now-has-worlds-largest-navy-as-beijing-advances-towards-goal-of-a-world-class-military-by-2049-says-us-dod

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
26 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

We should be doing the same thing as I mentioned many times before, including a land-based option.

Kongsberg NSM fits the bill nicely and it can be launched from land-sea or air.

“WASHINGTON – The stunning growth of the Chinese fleet over the past decade has prompted the U.S. Navy to plan a full-on buying spree of ship-killing missiles over the next five years, according to projections in the sea service’s Fiscal Year 2021 budget documents.”

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/02/11/as-china-continues-rapid-naval-expansion-the-us-navy-begins-stockpiling-ship-killing-missiles/

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
26 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

The F35-B can’t carry NSM internally but could carry them externally, at the expense of stealth of course.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
26 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

“The USMC would not be the first service to deploy a shore-based variant of the NSM. Poland’s military already fields a mobile, ground-based coastal defense version of the missile.”

“A mobile battery of [NSMs] would both help defend those bases from being attacked by an adversary’s warships as well as providing a bubble of sea control that would make an adversary navy’s movement and freedom of action more difficult.”

https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/us-navy-marine-corps-seek-shore-based-naval-strike-missile/

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
26 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

F35B soon will be capable of NSM/JSM internal carriage, though. As will Mk41 vls, evidently.
Regards

Andy
Andy
24 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

I’m pretty sure that modern Chinese escorts can quite easily shoot NSM out of the sky.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
24 days ago
Reply to  Andy

It depends what backs it up.

If EW is deployed to alter reality a bit for the opposition then things might not be so easy for them.

A conflict is not one missile against on ship and it is a mistake to analyse a single element in a reductionism manner.

That was the Falklands where EW and missiles were in their toddler stages compared to now. A lot was learned fast at horrendous cost. There is a lot going on in a state of the art missile other than guidance and targeting.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
26 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Rules of engagement would rule out the use of land based anti ship missiles in all but a WW3 UK invasion scenario. Better things to spend our money on.

Jonathan
Jonathan
21 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Rules of engagement would pretty much rule out deployment of long range heavy weight ASMs full stop. Anywhere you realistically want to fight, choke points, littoral zones ect are going to either be full of things you don’t want your Heavyweight ASM to hit ( as we don’t live in the first half of the 20 century sinking random cruise ships full of innocents will loss you a war in one shot) or to restrictive/ cluttered. Only dictators or pariah states have tended to throw around heavyweight ASMs. The RN has seen plenty of combat since the inception of ASMs… Read more »

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
21 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Whole heartedly agree mate, shame others don’t understand that common sense approach. 🤙

John Clark
John Clark
26 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Cover the deck with aircraft …. Hmmm, well I know BA is running out of available space for retired 747-400’s, one each on PoW and QE2 would tick the “full deck of aircraft” box and make a bit of extra money……

spyintheskyuk
spyintheskyuk
26 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

The Olympic Stadium would be ideal for storing their aircraft in the gaps, so plenty of competition there.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
26 days ago
Reply to  spyintheskyuk

That would give some relevant to the “Olympic Swimming Pool” metrics that were previously used….

spyintheskyuk
spyintheskyuk
26 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

They are producing 8 ‘stealth’ destroyers of some 10,000 tons to support their carriers of which I think the first has entered service and a second is in trials and a third is being painted ready to start trials. That said because of their apparent radar/sensor and electric generation complexity (to support potential rail guns and lasers) it seems it takes 3 years to get them into service from launch (interference between systems seems to be a problem currently) so it will be about 10 years before all 8 are in service most like though one can see them speeding… Read more »

Paul T
Paul T
25 days ago
Reply to  spyintheskyuk

spyintheskyuk – Those are the Type 055 Destroyers which to all intents and purposes are Cruisers,they certainly seem impressive on paper.Did you know that one of our European Allies is soon to start building a similar class of Ship but in smaller numbers (2) ?.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
25 days ago
Reply to  spyintheskyuk

The entire democratic world should be alarmed by the rise in the PLAN they just took over the US navy in terms of major surface and subsurface warships with 324 now in service, increasing to 352 by this time next year. US navy by comparison has 293 major warcraft. The type 55 is a very heavily armed warship a bit akin to a Vincennes class Aegis cruiser or an Arleigh Burke on steroids. 8 are confirmed but this would seem to be just the start. We can only hope their integration and whole platform performance is not on par to… Read more »

Andy
Andy
24 days ago
Reply to  spyintheskyuk

I don’t think these 8 are not designed for rail guns, China watchers seem to be expecting a second small batch of type 055’s before they move on to Type 055A, which should have rail guns and energy weapons. They are also expecting a lengthy pause in construction, and as of now China is not making any new destroyers or frigates at all. I think it will be a lot sooner than 10 years before all 8 are active, the final ship of the batch was just launched, along with the final Type 052. By the way, these 8 vessels… Read more »

TrevorH
TrevorH
25 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Yawn… China is a big country. It’s entitled to have armed forces. So? Is it going to start a war? Do we have any interest is starting a war? The West is more than capable of finishing any war China wants to start. China’s main interest is to control it’s own people. It remains to see if it can. Likewise Putin is more interesting poisoning it’s own people.

PTattersall
PTattersall
25 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

China is not the world’s largest navy . 2 third of them Chinese boats are nothing more than fishing boats

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
25 days ago
Reply to  PTattersall

Not like our Batch one and Two rivers then, armed to the teeth!

Jonathan
Jonathan
21 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Totally able to out fight a french fishing boat.

Paul T
Paul T
25 days ago
Reply to  PTattersall

PTattersall – Try looking up their ORBAT before spouting complete and utter rubbish !.

dan
dan
25 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Paid for by Western companies that moved all their manufacturing to China years ago and the Western consumers’ unending appetite for cheap goods.

Harry Bulpit
Harry Bulpit
25 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

China navy has a really substantial problem, that being China cost is surrounded by angry neighbor’s. As such their blue water navy would likely be trapped in any major conflict, much like the kregsmarine in ww2. Unlike America, Japan and Britain who are naturally positioned to be naval powers.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
25 days ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

Good point.

You have the East China Sea and the Sea of Okhotsk either side of Japan leading directly out into the North Pacific Ocean.

I wonder if this is one of the reasons for conducting joint Russian and Chinese war games?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

That is another problem faced by Russia. Where does their Northern, Black Sea, Baltic, and Pacific Fleets go in a conflict. Geography restricts them.

geoff
geoff
25 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

The term “Largest Navy” as a means of comparing fleets by number of hulls can be vary misleading. A better comparison might be by weight or by capability although the latter might be difficult to quantify objectively. I am sure most would agree that the US Fleet is by far the worlds most powerful

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
25 days ago
Reply to  geoff

“I am sure most would agree that the US Fleet is by far the worlds most powerful”

Currently yes, but as America has already stated, if war broke out on two fronts simultaneously they would concentrate their efforts in the South China sea leaving European countries to defend themselves against Russia.

As they themselves are neighbours and with a common enemy, I wonder what the future holds? 

Andy
Andy
24 days ago
Reply to  geoff

You are right, most of their Navy is made of missile boats (Type 022) and corvettes (Type 056).

They DO have 24 modern destroyers (Type 052), plus these new 8 cruisers (Type 055), and about 30 modern frigates (Type 054A).

There is no currently escort ship production, just a carrier and a LHD. Which is very interesting. I have no idea what it means. It’s probably not good.

Paul T
Paul T
22 days ago
Reply to  Andy

Andy – Your PLAN figures seem a slightly off,putting aside the Type 055’s they have 32 Active Destroyers (All reasonably Modern ) with 10 Type 052D Under Construction/Fitting out,around 46 Modern Frigates and around 57 Corvettes with 14 Type 056A again Under Construction/Fitting out.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
26 days ago

This will be great to see, and fantastic experience for the deck crews, engineers and flight crews, and the whole ship’s company coming together to deliver carrier strike. Carrier operations are extremely complex, and you can never have enough training, and exposure to a busy flight deck, the sights and smells are like nothing else.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
26 days ago

I did not think we had 2 squadrons yet, 809 is not forming for some years yet. So assume these 2 squadrons will be composite, smaller groups.

So the “whole deck” with aircraft comment must be put in context.

As for the rotary group, what do we expect? Maybe 9 Merlin HM2 as ASW squadron, 3 HM2 for simulated ASCS ( as Crowsnest is not available yet ), 3 Merlin HC3’s for JPR?
They could just add Wildcats and Chinooks to that if they wished.

Still, I think this is sensible, SFDO can only simulate so much!

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
26 days ago

Hi, A sqn of USMC F35’s are flying over from the states for this exercise, and will operate alongside 617. I think 9 USMC jets are flying over.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
26 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Ahhh, I assumed the USMC were only joining for the actual deployment.

Thanks Robert.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
26 days ago

Awaits the comments ( moans ) about using USMC to fill the decks….

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
26 days ago

ha 😄 yeah, probably 🤦‍♂️

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
26 days ago

We have had this cooperation with the USMC for a long time now. I was on -board HMS Illustrious back in 2007, we had 14 USMC Harrier AV8B’s on-board for 4 weeks. And a single V22 for a days deck familiarisation. Great Deployment

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
26 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Great, but just wish we could at least try and grab some relic Sea Harriers from the Arizona desert for emergency close-in defence for when the Chinese and Rooskies start buzzing the thing. Maybe borrow some USMC ones and pilots? Painful but the carriers need protection, let alone actual long-range offensive capability to overcome the in-coming hypersonics if it gets nasty.

Daveyb
Daveyb
26 days ago

The old GR7/9s would really be much use as they can only carry Sidewinder, not sure if they were cleared for ASRAAM before they got binned. The certainly wouldn’t be able to self-designate targets for AMRAAM. The aircraft that should not have been binned is the Sea Harrier 2 as it had the Blue Vixen radar and AMRRAM combination. It would still make a potent close in defence aircraft.

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
26 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Yep DaveyB. that’s exactly what i meant for close-in stuff. The long-range comment was just a general whine about the Uk having no 1,ooomile+ combat radius capability stuff.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
26 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Yup, Blue Vixen was a great system. I’m not so sure that the the SHAR2 would be that relevant now unless it was upgraded a lot. And when you start upgrading that to modern standards you get modern upgrade costs and then think of the utility of a mixed fleet…… SHAR 1 & 2 were fantastic aircraft and stretched the available tech to the limits. F35 is at a totally different level and brings so many facets to the party. I may be a bit controversial, and I am in now way doing down the bravery of the SHAR crews,… Read more »

Paul T
Paul T
25 days ago

There was also an SSN parked off the Argentinian Coast under one of the flightpaths to one of the main Airbases giving warning as each wave was en route.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago
Reply to  Paul T

Yes, I’d read of this too Paul.

A fascinating part of Corporate.

Ron
Ron
25 days ago

From someone there at the time working in comms, yes the fleet got info but most of the time after the fact. One of the issues with intel is time delivery, by the time it is decoded and then transmitted in a don’t let anyone know I have the info a supersonis jet sqn has got in for the attack. For aircraft you need to know at take of and then heading then you can workout the defence. The ship I was on in 82 had no idea what was coming, we were not prepared for the vectors and in… Read more »

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
25 days ago
Reply to  Ron

Ron. Much respect to you, and we should always remember that loss and the need for quick identification of a threat.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago

Seconded.

Ron
Ron
25 days ago

Thanks but it was my job, it gave me a trade and I saw the world and had some fun, but as I said also the at night the bad times. As for seeing the threat, government does not seem to understand a warship. Everytime she goes to sea she must be ready for war. She is not able to go back to base and get ammo, she might be a thousand miles away.Thats almost two days flat out. A carrier cannot go without aircraft or escorts, we tried that in WW2 and we lost them. What I want to… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
25 days ago
Reply to  Ron

That is very interesting – Sharky Ward made a similar comment in my earshot many moons ago about speed of dissemination of information in the Task Group. I was not there but I did spend some time on Glamorgan post Corporate and just seeing the welded over gash in the side of the mess deck was sobering. You felt you needed to pause for a moment when you walked in there. I have great respect for what was achieved on Corporate with some absolutely awful guided missile systems which even then belonged in a museum. Dart and Wolf were the… Read more »

Paul T
Paul T
24 days ago

Supportive Bloke- The SSN parked off the Argentinian Coast nearly came a cropper without the Argentinians actually looking for it,a Fighter ( not sure which ) had to jettison its Bomb load due to a problem,it just so happened that they fell and exploded pretty much where the SSN was.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
24 days ago
Reply to  Paul T

I’ve not heard of this Paul T. What is your source for that? Anything readable?

Paul T
Paul T
23 days ago

Daniele – From memory it was on one of Mark Feltons youtube videos.

Paul T
Paul T
23 days ago

Apologies Daniele – ive trawled some videos to no avail,but found the Submarine in question was HMS Valiant,i’ll have to look further into this.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
23 days ago
Reply to  Paul T

Understood. Thanks Paul. I also see my comment earlier was removed by the mods so still sensitivity around all this. We’ll leave it for now. 🙂

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
23 days ago
Reply to  Ron

Mine stayed up but had some holes up fwd from cannons.That said in latter years I was on the same class but lengthened and fitted with Outboard amongst other stuff .
With all the sneaky secret squirrel stuff onboard be could here the interplane/control tower radio of jets prior to take off at a substantial distance away. We knew planes where coming before they had even taken off. That info was fed in real time to the other units we where in concert with.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
22 days ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

That is impressive capability for the Batch 2’s.

Shaman on the T45’s now should be magnitudes better.
I believe the SSN fleet also has a similar system.

TrevorH
TrevorH
25 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

The Sea Harrier was scrapped in 2006 by Blair/Brown. A year later they ordered two carriers.

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
25 days ago
Reply to  TrevorH

Madness! …and binning the crews.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
25 days ago

Crews went onto Harrier GR7/9 or US or French exchange posts.

War
War
25 days ago
Reply to  TrevorH

I always thought that the sea harrier was scrapped in the 2010 defence review, by the conservative/ liberal govt.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
25 days ago
Reply to  War

That was the GR7/9 that was the RAF ground attack version that did much the same job as the Apache does now.

Although strangely it did not have an A->A radar.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago
Reply to  War

No. As said JFH lost its Sea Harrier FAS2s earlier.
800, 801, 899 NAS. 2005/6 ish I think?

In 2009 Labour announced RAF Cottesemore would close ( now Kendrew Bks ) and cut 3 and 4 squadrons of GR9s. ( while vowing 22 chinooks as recompense, which never occurred)

SDSR 2010 Tories finished the job with the remaining squadrons of Harriers and Ark Royal. ( 1 and 20R )

TrevorH
TrevorH
25 days ago
Reply to  War

No. The incoming govt chose to keep the Tornados as it was deemed better suited to Iraq and Afghanistan. The Invincible class had already lost the Sea Harriers that were air superiority, so what was the point of keeping the GRs ??

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
25 days ago
Reply to  War

Sea Harrier FA2 retired in 2006, Harrier GR9, December 2010.

Daveyb
Daveyb
26 days ago

We should also do an article on Hypersonic weapons as there are too many myths floating around about how invincible these weapons are! The first hurdle someone using an hypersonic anti-ship missile will face, is first finding the target. If you have an aircraft like a Tu95 (Tu142) Bear, It carries a very powerful surface search radar. However, it has two things against it the aircraft being contra-rotating propeller driven has a unique radar signature and is very easy to detect. Secondly its radar will always be detect long before it can actually detect anything. So for a T45 for… Read more »

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
26 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

The last time I was at sea with the RN was back in 2010. HMS Illustrious took part in a joint warrior exercise out of Faslane. The ship remained undetected for 5 whole days. Whilst also deploying our own aircraft against red air. And this was just operating in and around the west coast of Scotland against a threat made up of F15E’s and C’s, Rafales, Hawks and various surveillance ISTAR aircraft. My point being, even a large un-stealthy vessels, can be very difficult to find, when it doesn’t want to be found, even against a very sophisticated simulated enemy.… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Fascinating Robert.

It is real experience like this that I appreciate here.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
25 days ago

Thanks mate, appreciate it. I don’t down play the threats we face, but I do read a lot of fantasy wars on these pages, that are often far removed from reality.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
24 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Thanks for the comment. I have a feeling that we compare the size of carriers against ourselves or at best tied up in port (where they’re bloody massive), as opposed to on the ocean (where they’re bloody miniscule)!

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
24 days ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Exactly mate, ships are big, but the ocean is vast. Have a good one 🤙

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
25 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Fascinating input DaveyB. I suppose my concerns are multiple-warhead in-coming hypersonics, and the general ultra-short reaction times needed to identify and counter or destroy. If a UK task force were facing such a threat it needs some pretty hot bang-bangs/lasers at one end, and/or a long-range (1,000+ miles) detection/destroy capability at the other to stop it in the first place.

Daveyb
Daveyb
25 days ago

The best defence against any type of anti-ship missile is airborne early warning. This is why it is critical that Crowsnest is made to work. Admittedly it won’t have the range of an E2D Hawkeye. By placing the radar high up extends you radar horizon. But it also means that the radar is further away from the fleet, therefore the fleet’s situational awareness is much better. By pushing out Crowsnest its 250km range is still pretty good and gives the fleet options, i.e. time to work out a counter.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
23 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

You also go for the missile shooters and surveillance aircraft/ships . So an F35 with Meteor can keep the shooters at arms length making there job a lot harder and giving them a far larger area to search for a target.

The USN did this to great effect with Tomcats and phoenix missiles. With their current fit of Hornets and AMRAMM they have lost this ability to keep aggressors at arms length.

Its always easier to shoot down a Badger, Bear or Backfire than a swarm of ASMs

Ron
Ron
25 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

DaveyB, very much of what you say is correct, I also think someone should write an article on hypersonic weapon possibilities. Here goes some food for thought, at the moment you get the speed but targeting no, the speed possibly for five minutes. So its a threat but not a weapon. However I was speaking to a friend who is a young woman masters degree in aerodynamics and we spoke about this. She explained to me that there is a few possibilities the first is to pre cool the incoming air. As far as I know we are doing that… Read more »

Daveyb
Daveyb
25 days ago
Reply to  Ron

Yes, I think for practicality and purely on cost grounds a high supersonic speed missile, such Perseus is more than adequate. With hypersonics comes massive costs. It needs more advanced heat resistant materials and novel engines such as scramjets or aerospike, as these are the only ones that can cope with the pressures and temperatures of hypersonic air flow. Unless you have a good method of slowing that air down then cooling it, ala Reaction Engine pre-cooler. I read about using laminar air flows for airframe cooling a while back, the tricky part is the engineering. The major hurdle is… Read more »

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
23 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

The Pershing 2 missile used control surfaces along with radar matching to make it highly accurate. Pershing 2 , not Tomahawk, was the system that had the Soviets worrried in the 80s. It was fast and could hit anything it was aimed at.
A similar system could be in use on DF21s but how good it would be against a carrier doing 30+ knots balls out and manoeuvring hard a port and stbd, chucking out chaff and decoys all over as well as having the escorts putting a lot of metal into the air is debatable.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
23 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

All of the above and a lot more I have tried to highlight previously. From my time on a T42 I knew the detection envelop for 966/1022 and the missiles that the Red Banner Fleet would launch at us, Kitchen and AS6 Kingfish. Kingfish being a top diver would be open for a Sea Dart intercept for literally only a few seconds. Latterly time on T22s and T23s and the odd LPD made me a lot happier with the threat response from systems other than Sea Cat, Slug and Dart! But as you say finding the target is the issue.… Read more »

Paul T
Paul T
25 days ago

If push came to shove there is no need to go to the Arizona Desert for the SHAR 2’s,they are still at RNAS Culdrose or Yeovil.

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
25 days ago
Reply to  Paul T

Oooooowh! Did not realise that. Thought that they were all sold off to stateside. Well, if the B-52s can still serve….

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago
Reply to  Paul T

I thought just 8 of them, mind?

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
25 days ago

…better than nowt Danielle. We are desperate.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago

The GR9s were sold, not the Sea Harriers. A handful remain with School of Flightdeck Operations. ( SFDO )

Paul T
Paul T
25 days ago

Daniele -Just had a browse,there are many SHAR’s scattered around the country as Museum exhibits,plus one still flying in the US,enough to fill the QE’s deck id say haha.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago
Reply to  Paul T

I imagine if one scoured all museums and privately owned warbird groups we could scrape together quite a few squadrons!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago

Though if I had to choose SHAR or Buccanear, I take the Bucc!

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
25 days ago

Daniele and Rob, I was in some blokes barn several years ago who had a personal SHAR.
Don’t get me going on why the carriers need Buccanears (or similar) now and their long range radars…

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
25 days ago

The ultimate man cave. Wow.

Steve
Steve
26 days ago

It’s going to be interesting to see what they mean by whole deck. When a US carrier wants to show its strength it has something like 60 jets on the deck (no idea the actual number, but a lot).

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
26 days ago
Reply to  Steve

We shouldn’t compare ourselves to the Americans. This exercise could see up to 25 aircraft on-board the QE, maybe more. This is by know means an easy task. That very few countries can achieve. And 24 F35’s is a very serious capability to take around the world at our choosing. You would have to go all the way back to OpTelic 2003, when we last deployed a greater number then 24 of a single type of fast jet (32 Tornado GR4’s) 👍

Ron
Ron
26 days ago
Reply to  Steve

Steve, from my understanding the USN and RN carrier battlegroups are diffrent. The RN is more like fleet/area defence with strike capability whilst the USN is strike with a defence capability. The RN carriers would work well in a Falklands situation to defend the fleet and get air superiority over a limited area. The US carriers are more multi purpose, I’m not sure but I would use the abreviation CVB (large aircraft carrier) or a new one CVF (fleet carrier fighter) In real thinking the US Carriers and RN carriers could work as a pair really well with the RN… Read more »

Ron5
Ron5
25 days ago
Reply to  Ron

That makes very little sense.

Ron
Ron
25 days ago
Reply to  Ron5

Ron5, where does it not make sense and I will try to explain it in more detail.

Jason Holmes
Jason Holmes
25 days ago

I just feel for Marham village crawling with marines! great bunch of people, not sure the camp bars will cope!

David
David
26 days ago

Oddly, I was more fascinated by the 90,000 spuds

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
26 days ago
RobW
RobW
26 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

That is very good news and perhaps unexpected in its timing ahead of the review.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
26 days ago
Reply to  RobW

Yes, i wasn’t expecting a Typhoon radar announcement anytime soon. Great news.

Lordtemplar
Lordtemplar
25 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Interesting, thx for the info 👍.
According the article, Leonardo is the prime contractor and doing most of the work, so I imagine this will be very similar to Gripen E Raven ES 05 AESA radar, but mounted on a swashplate.
Very surpised by the timing of this announcement since defence review is posponed, but gov.uk source is as good as it gets.
It will be interesting to compare with what Hensoldt/Indra will be doing on german and spanish typhoons
About time Typhoon got some love.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
25 days ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/e-scan-takes-eurofighter-typhoon-to-new-horizons

This is the best i can find that describes the new ECRS MK2 radar for RAF Typhoons. Which i understand is completely different from the Gripen radar, though I’m sure Sombody will correct me if that’s wrong. Still lot’s of upgrades coming the Typhoons way. Striker 2 HMS isn’t to far off either. And lot’s more to boot. Coningsby is night flying this week and next if you hear some distant rumbles in the night sky. 👍 Fantastic aircraft.

Daveyb
Daveyb
25 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

What it doesn’t state, is that there has been the usual battle over the Typhoons direction, between mostly Germany and the UK/Italy. Spain has basically gone with the Germans, so they can get in on the FCAS program. There has always been a battle, predominantly between the UK and Germany regarding Typhoon. We wanted a bigger aircraft whilst Germany wanted something smaller. There was also the thorny issue of which radar was going to be fitted in the beginning of the program. We wanted one that was based on a development of the Sea Harrier’s Blue Vixen, whilst Germany favoured… Read more »

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
25 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Cracking explanation mate. Mk2 is going to be a very impressive bit it of kit. RAF Typhoon/F35 is going to be a deadly fighter combination.

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
25 days ago
Reply to  Daveyb

Great explanation DaveyB

Paul T
Paul T
25 days ago

Regarding next years First Operational Deployment of HMS QE’s Group,might the Royal Navy struggle to get Two Type 45’s available for it.Has Dauntless gone under the Knife yet,will she be ready in time ?.The T23’s obviously wont be a problem,how long will the Engine swap take ?.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
23 days ago
Reply to  Paul T

The RN has been planning this deployment for years. I knew which units where probably going 2 years ago. I also know which units will probably be accompanying POW (75% likely) on her deployment. The RN has been managing refits and maintenance periods to ensure that the right assets are in place from day 1 and ready to go.

Basra
Basra
25 days ago

multinational contributions of escorts and even fighters is what makes the entire UK carrier proposition so appealing. Countries from Japan, Singapore, Italy and the USA can embark squadrons on CVF while other countries can provide escorts. No one else in the world can offer such a multinational and flexible approach to carrier strike. As long as the UK can have enough escorts and aircraft during a full war time surge there is no issue. Better to use global peace time deployments to train with others and perfect F35B cross decking. The prospect of facing off against two fully loaded Queen… Read more »

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
25 days ago
Reply to  Basra

True. However, for fixed-wing the UK carriers have ski-ramps and no arrestor gear so that precludes all but F35B at the moment – unless you add AV8B from the yankeedoodles or SHARs from the museums, or quickly knock up a new vectored thrust super long-range Buccaneer II 🙂

Paul T
Paul T
25 days ago

All the Countries that Basra mention either have the F35b or have ordered it.

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
24 days ago
Reply to  Paul T

Hi PaulT,
I did acknowledge that at the start as I said “True.” My point was that it was really limited to the F35B unless the UK pulls something out of the hat.

James
James
24 days ago

Two squadrons of F-35s? So somewhere between 36 and 48 of them?
Or are we arbitrarily changing what words mean again?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
24 days ago
Reply to  James

At the most I have always taken a traditional RAF squadron to be 12 / 13 aircraft. With the F35 build up ongoing I would say 9. So as RB suggests further up, 18 jets.

In future and all British air group should have around 24 jets, plus helicopters.

AlbertStarburst
AlbertStarburst
24 days ago
Reply to  James

Historically it is 12 aircraft per squadron operational, but during WWII for example with the heavy bomber force (Lancs ect.) it could go up into the 20s per squadron as not all aircraft (or crews) would reliable be in a fit state to go again after a raid and if trying to do a max effort.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
20 days ago
Reply to  James

Who in the world operates squadrons of between 18 and 24 fighters?

Nick Tutill
Nick Tutill
23 days ago

Will have to give an aircraft carrier and it’s escort to Scotland when it gets its independence