As Houthi attacks against commercial vessels continue, Royal Navy warship HMS Richmond takes over from HMS Diamond to ensure freedom of navigation in the Red Sea.
HMS Diamond joined Operation Prosperity Guardian, an international task force to protect merchant shipping in the region, in December and has maintained a near constant presence in a ‘high threat area’ of the Red Sea.
“The destroyer came under fire in three separate attacks by Iranian-backed Houthi rebels, successfully destroying nine drones using her world-class Sea Viper missile system and guns.
The UK continues to be at the forefront of the international response to the Houthis’ illegal attacks on commercial shipping – participating in Operation Prosperity Guardian, intercepting weapon-smuggling to Yemen, imposing sanctions to hold members of the Houthis to account and conducting necessary, proportionate and targeted strikes against Houthi military targets in Yemen.”
Defence Secretary Grant Shapps said:
“The UK is committed to protecting freedom of navigation. I visited HMS Diamond in January and thanked the Ship’s Company for their incredible work defending freedom of navigation, saving innocent lives and ensuring merchant shipping is protected from the illegal Houthi attacks. I am confident that HMS Richmond will carry on her impressive work.”
The Ministry of Defence say that HMS Diamond will now undergo a period of maintenance and resupply as HMS Richmond takes over her important mission.
“HMS Richmond, which left Plymouth at the beginning of January, has a crew of 200 sailors and Royal Marines and a Sea Ceptor missile system, capable of protecting shipping spread out across an area the size of Greater Manchester – some 500 square miles of ocean.
HMS Richmond is also armed with a range of medium guns, machine-guns, small arms, torpedoes, a Royal Marines boarding team, and a Wildcat helicopter which can search vast areas on patrols for hostile threats on the water – and destroy them if necessary with Martlet anti-ship missiles.”
HMS Diamond Commander Peter Evans said
“The situation in the region is fraught, and ships in the force are firing on a daily basis – we hand over the baton with our best wishes to the fantastic team in Richmond who we know will do a great job. Having deployed at just five days’ notice we’re used to quickly switching aim, and now our focus is on a short maintenance and ammunition re-supply period before we get back to our mission in the Red Sea.”
HMS Richmodn ehh ? …… 😂 Come on guys….. Edit and make me look silly !!!! But seriously, Diamond needs to come home now, she has done rather well ….
dont think HMS Diamond is coming home yet.
from what i have read elsewhere, it is heading to an unknown port (Djibouti, Cyprus, Bahrein?) for some R&R, reload,etc… then after a short break back on duty in the Red Sea.
Best bet IMHO is Al Duqm in Oman as you don’t need to go too far, avoids transiting suez or straits of Hormuz and it has all the facilities. It’s the U.K. Joint Force Logistics base and they have carried out work on RN ships before (Montrose I think). Take a look on Google Earth it ticks all the boxes. Flight up to Dubai for RnR anyone ?
Yeap, surely Duqm. It’s exactly why the location was chosen.
Diego Garcia is nearby, and has full USN facilities plus belongs to us.
DG is 4 times further away ($000km vs 1000km). Whilst it’s UK territory, it’s a US base we have access rights to, whereas Duqm is our own facilities. DG has nothing to do in terms of shore-leave; any stores and munitions (e.g. Sea Viper missiles) would need to be flown there – and it’s much further from the UK than Duqm.
If Duqm wasn’t used it’d call into question the point of spending money setup up a naval logistics facility there, to be honest.
Can we not speculate on this – otherwise it is inviting retribution to the crew, when on R&R, or the ship like USS Cole?
SB I take your point and like many on here there are lines I don’t cross. I got taught many years ago about not talking too much about certain things and although I’m no longer involved I can’t understand why others who are don’t.
If anyone has let the cat out of the bag and endangered folks it’s Shapps and MOD. It’s a war zone and you do not comment on this sort of stuff. So why say anything at all ? It’s because that’s all he can do and it sounds positive to the gallery.
There was no need to broadcast the swap over, nor highlight the change in operational capability. None !
As for releasing the Captains statement containing “short period for Maintenance and ammunition Re supply” do we no longer have censorship or Brain cells ?
A blind man and his dog could follow those breadcrumbs.
All the info of what we are doing and going to do has been given away and all the info to identify the possible options is freely available (mainly on MOD sites or previous press releases).
The bad guys know as much as us, and I’m pretty certain ours are properly prepared and waiting regardless of where they go.
Well you’d hope so and it’s not been outsourced to SERCO.
TBH I don’t know actually know where is safe these days. Do you ?
Ships going through Suez will be clocked, and Richmond going one way (possibly followed by Diamond going the other) would soon do the OSINT circuit. So this is not the sort of thing you can keep hidden for long anyway. The public don’t have a right to know operational details, but hiding the unhideable is pointless figleafing.
There is also another consideration. By trumpeting the UK’s involvement we encourage other countries to join and add to our “resolve” score on the deterrence equation. If we didn’t talk about Richmond turning up and Diamond was seen to leave, this could lead to far more damaging speculation, followed by ridiculous assertions that we only tasked Richmond subsequently because of all the bad press. As it stands, the announcement clearly displays a planned relief strategy that shows commitment to the operation.
Indeed. Given General Sanders comments about national service it’s also important for the politicians to highlight our contribution to the tax payers so that the results of their support are apparent.
I took General Sanders comments to be a reality check for said tax payers that not increasing the defence spending to deliver a credible deterrent would have the consequence of war with the aggressors. So call up to staff a national defence would be our only choice for continued freedom.
Point taken, but local intel rather than armchair admirals musing online is much more likely to be used to inform such attacks. They’d unlikely target the Diamond crew in particular but rather British military and wider interests. There are always UK military personal at Duqm from all 3 services, if Diamond docks there, there’d just be more. I’d expect good security processes and safety briefings are in use to minimise risk.
I agree.
Never underestimate the ability of others to add two and two to get twenty two.
People analyse information according to preconceived ideas.
I totally agree that the most likely info flow is via binos and a mobile! But……
Duqm- Isn’t that an engine oil?
Centre for England in 1974, J.P.R. Williams used to run rings around him.
Dave Duckham watched him play for Leicester once, he was good, unfortunately for him the Welsh were better.
Yes, did well when partnered with the Welsh backs as ‘Dai Duckham’ during the Lions tour to NZ, and especially for the Babas in ’73 when then beat the All Blacks at Cardiff Arms Park.
Or Diego Garcia maybe?
Good morning Frank I’ve just spotted this on Breaking Defence.
I wonder if this will impact any of our future international orders.
Fincantieri CEO Pierroberto Folgiero told Breaking Defense the modularity approach shortens production time against a general frigate market trend of 40 months, and he “strongly believes” Saudi Arabia stands as a key “addressable market” to secure a future FCx30 sale.
Fincantieri CEO Pierroberto Folgiero told Breaking Defense the modularity approach shortens production time against a general frigate market trend of 40 months, and he “strongly believes” Saudi Arabia stands as a key “addressable market” to secure a future FCx30 sale.
Fincantieri has committed to build FCx30 multi role frigates in 32 months, an aggressive production time frame that the company said is made possible by the introduction of a modular manufacturing approach involving the use of a digital twin and separating ship and mast building.
Based on Qatar’s Doha/Al Zubarah-class ship design, FCx30 vessels are to be offered to customers, including Saudi Arabia — regarded as a top sales priority — in three configurations: light, anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and full, according to a Fincantieri presentation Monday at the World Defense Show here.
The modularity concept, driven by the FCx digital twin, a computerised version of the ship’s design, would be “fed real data” from the physical ship, once built, so engineers could optimise hardware and software, make use of artificial intelligence or potentially “rethink specs,” said Fincantieri CEO Pierroberto Folgiero.
A plan to build the FCx hull and mast in parallel means that testing of the ship’s combat management system, integrated on the mast, can start much earlier, compared to the more traditional and lengthier manufacturing process of integrating the mast after completion of the hull.
Folgiero told Breaking Defense the modularity approach also shortens production time against a general frigate market trend of 40 months, and he “strongly believes” Saudi Arabia stands as a key “addressable market” to secure a future FCx30 sale.
“It’s not a long shot,” he said of that potential deal, while stressing that the company’s Riyadh office is ready to support a tender phase, should Saudi Arabia decide to call for a competitive frigate acquisition.
He explained that it would be up to Saudi Arabian defense officials to speak about specific interest in a frigate acquisition program but that Riyadh has been open about “increasing naval capacity” generally, together with the 2030 Vision targeting 50 percent localization of defense spending in the Kingdom.
Fincantieri is working on an agreement with Sofon, Saudi Arabia’s new national shipbuilding authority. Sofon agreements are essential for international shipbuilders to be eligible for new naval contracts. Breaking Defense was unable to reach Sofon for comment for this report.
“[Sofon] will be the champion for the navy, and marine industry in Saudi Arabia. They have a huge shipbuilding [facility] in the east coast,” explained Ahmad Abdulaziz Al-Ohali, governor of the General Authority for Military Industries (GAMI). “We are working very closely with them, guiding them … [supporting their work with] international companies. Reputable international companies in the navy sector.”
Looking closer at the three modular design configurations of the FCx, the light version will cover search and rescue, constabulary, strike, counter-piracy, peacekeeping and maritime interception operations.
An ASW configuration would encompass not only the anti-sub role, but also Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear, and high yield Explosives and surveillance co-ordination. The full version of the frigate would address maritime strike coordination and reconnaissance and air interdiction of maritime targets.
Fincantieri has still to receive a firm FCx order, but the ship is also under consideration by Greece for the Hellenic Navy’s €1.5 billion ($1.58 billion) corvette program.
“Fincantieri remains interested in Greece,” said a company spokesperson in a Tuesday statement. “We have presented the best corvette available on the market, a well-proven and cutting-edge model. […] We are waiting with great interest for further developments from the Greek government.”
Breaking Defense’
https://
breakingdefense.com/2024/02/fincantieri-launches-modular-fcx30-frigate-concept-targets-saudi-arabia-order/utm_medium=email&_hsmi=293086258&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_mUZitqfoi-tF_Ur97lo8YkCRPtybO0xDUHYYBUciagamEeTZwNixnfSbt9WKUxJBTqljqLUqP-c_setd5l0D1oRWXRQ&utm_content=293086258&utm_source=hs_email
These are mighty powerful Corvettes with great specs…. Not sure if the UK is offering anything that might be compete though, T31 is twice the Tonnage, River B’2’s are lacking in every way, T26 way too expensive…. I’d swap the River 1’s for a few Doha’s though.
Yes, I just had a look. Very impressive as you say, well spected with room built in for future upgrades. 👌
“The weapons will include VL CAMM-ER SAM, Exocet SSM, RAM CIWS, full EWS suite (including R-ECM as a plug-and-play option), OTO 76/62 with STRALES and DART ammunition (and Leonardo RCWS). Regarding the SAM and SSM, we are able to integrate any kind of missiles and to re-configure the sensor equipment of the ship accordingly. Everything on board will be fully integrated with the CMS (ATHENA).”
The ship will have powerful electronic equipment consisting of KRONOS HP-MFR, of the same family of the one fitted on FREMM frigates. The EW suite will be full and advanced, and it will come from our partner ELT Roma.
The DLS will be one from Leonardo assuring both AAW and ASW capabilities.“Regarding the DLS, Naval News assumes that the configuration of DLS might be similarly to Al Zubarah-class with four Sylena Mk1 DLS and separate launchers for Leonardo C310 anti-torpedo decoys.
These decoys are the same as the ones of the C303/S system (48+14 MTE 103B and 72+21JAM 102) that will equip the Type 214 and Type 209/1500 submarines of the Hellenic Navy (agreement signed between Leonardo and Greek GDDIA on April 207, 2022).
Deste described also the future capabilities of FCX30. He said that “There are important margins in the design. You can replace the engines with more powerful ones, you can install more weapons or heavier ones, and you can install new generation weapons such as high energy laser (HEL) or high-power microwave (HPM) systems. It will be a very powerful ship capable to operate in high-threat environments!“
Regarding its performance, Deste said that “it will exceed the 26kts with an excellent endurance. The ship will be able to accommodate an up to 12-tons helicopter (MH-60R in Greek case) with a separate hangar for an UAS.
There will be also space to carry a special-forces team which can operate with the helicopter or the RHIB carried on the ship.“
From a little bit of research, it looks like @ 500,000,000 Euros a piece….. But that spec is pretty impressive.
informative post (as always), thank you Nigel
Always welcome klonkie!
Time for SeaCeptor to show its mettle!
Yes indeed. It’s our second air defence missile so needs to prove its worth. Can’t hurt exports if it does the business.
I know there is a published range for the missile and this is likely to be Conservative, I wonder if we will get to see its actual range, or will these figures be censured for security reasons?
AA
I doubt we will get precision detail of any engagements and rightly so. Yes, many dont realise the full potential of SC – especially its range – its more a Sea Dart replacement as much as it is a Sea Wolf one. Its abilities to take on multiple simultaneous targets and be ready to re-engage rapidly may well be tested too – lets hope it delivers as the trials and specification indicated. Given it will be the standardised short to medium range SAM for all our surface combatants including the T45 after refits soon, then any successes will be of great value to the RN in terms of also helping decide if CIWS and its replacement is needed and on what.
That is the joy of soft launch.
You don’t have to wait for efflux gases to clear. So launch rates can be very high.
Likely beneficial for ‘old fashioned’ night vision too, judging from recent video of HMS Diamond launching Sea Viper. Still likely a place for that in confined waters and manned close in gunnery.
But only 32 shots. You wouldn’t want to use all those in one day! It’s a lighter missile (100kg+/-) so wonder if this can be manually re-loaded at sea? Maybe they could rig a small crane up to facilitate this? With the clear space atop the long hangar I wonder if they would ever add a 40mm, Phalanx or Dragonfire on the T23s?
It cannot be reloaded at sea. I’m not aware of any systems that can.
Sea Ceptor could be man handled horizontally, placed in an openable erector tube with a pivot point at the base.
The tube then hauled up vertically, secured and the reload lowered in.
No way you can do that with a strike length tube and missile. The combo of the outer tube and the missile is incredibly heavy.
This can be done for the RN sift launch tubes I doubt it can be for the quad packed variants in Mk41.
I think the plans for the T23s is just to keep them running to OOS dates now, any investment wouldn’t be worth it except Phalanx as an urgent operational requirement for Red Sea/Gulf missions – much like Argus received for LRG(S).
Already exporting rather well TBH.
But live proving trials are always proof of the pudding.
SeaCeptor without any form of CIWS, risky move considering the US ship needed phallanx.
Though note ex Commander Tom Sharpe states 30mm ASCG likely tested against slow drones by HMS Diamond. T23s have the DS30M mkII.
Good point
Different missile systems. Sea Ceptor has a very short min engagement range that puts it in the CIWS bracket
The only thing I will say is that T23 does not have any close in weapon systems..it’s 4.5inch gun is not able to engage air targets…I pray for the crew these weaknesses do not cause loss of life.
CAMM is clearly a very good missile system…but the ABs are a profoundly better AAW platform than a T23 and even one of those ended up engaging an anti ship missile with a CIWS at less than a mile.
we really really need to be retiring the 4.5inch…a medium navel gun that cannot engage air targets is useless and put a 57mm or 5inch on each escort as a main gun, with supporting 40mm MK 4 and or Phalanx (which has proven itself as effective).
The T23 is a great ship but it was not designed to be dumped into enclosed waters and then be bombarded with constant multiple air threats.
With SeaCeptor and its fast response, reengagement and multi-shot capabilities, its arguable that this provides a fine CIWS capability too – assuming of course ant attacker has already got through its intial responses at longer range anyway.
The problem is min engagement range….which is someplace around 1km….so it’s not a CIWS.
we must assume they can, as they did achieve this against an AB.
You assume Phalanx is really effective at 1Km? It has a min engagement range too of course – especially as its radar guided.
its more about having multiple types of systems, so if one fails for whatever reason there is a fallback.
Well yes and has been said already the T23 does have DS30 – which although not optimised for all types of air attack does have capability. I note that the new 40mm guns coming with the T31s are arguably better than Phalanx in taking out a lot of the air threat too – as a back up if not primary especially with the right ammo. Times are moving on.
The t32 is limited arc of fire and so assuming any smart attacker would come up from its blackspot. Ds30 is potentially fine but it requires someone to man them constantly and not as accurate as not radar guided or I don’t believe it is. Does it have air burst ammo as its fire rate is a lot lower also?
I think Northrop Grumman were developing an airburst round for the Bushmaster 30mm.
Electro- optical
The DS30 is fully automated and linked to the CMS. So it is fully radar/opto guided.
Still has manual mode just in case someone needs to go deaf quickly.
I understood the Canadians selected CAMM specifically for CIWS. Is that not so? I wonder if the <1km min is like the >25km max, and should be read as <<1km.
They did. While SC has in theory a min engagement of 1 Km – reality says intial engagement of the tracker radar has to be much more so once its airborne and tracking its target thats what counts.. Phalanx once tracking should in theory go down to 1knm but it too still needs to acquire the target further out to maximise a kill probability.
I know this sounds like a dumb question, but does CAMM need to use its active radar seeker in the terminal phase? Can it contnue to use the datalink to the ship’s Artisan radar instead, eliminating the need for a self-contained lock?
CAMM is Not CIWS. CAMM is >1km.
The RCN will use CAAM as a PDMS not a CIWS.
The difference between the two roles is marginal at best when there’s no layer behind it. The Canadians refer to CAMM as a Close in Defence System (CIDS) rather than CIWS, but by any name it’s still their last line of defence.
For comparison RAM (RIM-116) is often descibed as CIWS; its short range shots are 1200 – 2500m, a range nominally covered by CAMM.
Again, wonder if this was deliberate action by USS Gravely against slow drone i.e. along lines of Cdr Tom Sharpe claim above.
It was an anti ship missile not a drone…there is no way on earth a war ship would have purposely waited to engage an anti ship missile….we know the USN have been quite clear in what was a missile attack and what was a drone attack.
Indeed, appears so …mm
Its less than 1km
They do have 2 30mm cannons.
which are designed to engage small surface targets…not a missile travelling at 600mph+ they are essentially useless in that function…although they do have functionality against slow moving air targets such as drones or rotors.
I have tracked aircraft with EO doing = 400knts …on a T23 I was even pressing the Buttons!
Target from the command system and locked up the aircraft. Various algorithms such as edge tracking allow accurate target follow.
But would you honestly want to be shooting down an 550knt anti ship missile with a 35cm cross section in the 4-5 seconds of that close engagement before it hits the ship with, a DS30B mount ? Or would you also like to have a radar guided CIWS ?
They are of questionable value against air target, not designed as AAA but as anti armoured vehicle chain guns of fairly low rate of fire. For fast moving jets or missiles you need nigh rates of fire. Against slow drones or helicopters maybe effective.
That depends on how well the shots are placed.
In the WW2 approach you created a box of shrapnel and hoped a plane few through it. Or alternatively you tried to walk the fire onto the plane using tracer. Which unless the pilot was very cooperative was hopeless. You might get lucky.
Now the radar locates very, very precisely and CMS calculated the optimal place to send shells. Totally different approach. So the shrapnel field is created in a highly specific location.
Firing rates are less important than range and accuracy.
Phalanx is a different approach as it is a precisely steered wall of sabots to shred incoming objects.
All that said I’d prefer to see two 40mm cannons as standard fit. Simply a bigger shrapnel field with greater range and 3P a possibility. In the great scheme of things peanuts money.
I too think 40mm would be best.
Mmm “doesn’t have any” what do you think the 30mm Bushmasters are ?
Completely useless against against a small possibility manoeuvring target travel at 600mph……let’s not even pretend a DS30M mk2 mount is a CIWS…its a locally or remotely operated system designed to engage small surface targets…in a pinch it can engage slow moving airborne targets such as drones or rotors.
That isn’t the really case anymore TBH.
This was the case before the 30mm were fully integrated into CMS. They are now.
The 30mm will be more than good against the Iranian drones.
The semi ballistics – it will depend on where they are in the engagement envelope. Really that is a Sea Ceptor job. The initial engagement would be far enough out to allow for a second backup shot – it is all automated. Phalanx would if it existed, for that instance, be deployed to break up any coming debris.
The issue is more the skimmers given the lower ARTISAN height and power. T45 was always going to win that argument as it was very well designed to defend fleets against such attacks.
Yeah they took the Aimer out with their MK 1 eyeball Im slightly deaf in my left ear even with internal and external Ear defenders from the 30mm both single and twin they would be OK against slow moving Drones in AA mode or boat Bourne skiffs in SU mode different rates of fire as we used in the Aimers position. So long as the barrels fully in and locked the Navy doesn’t want anymore egg on their face after the Chid and the QE debacle
Ha you got there first….
Now aimed by EO and CMS potentially radar too.
At least only the loader may loose their hearing now
Deaf…Been there …am that!
Get your claim in. Class action is ongoing against MOD for a system with a 182 Db noise output per single bullet and ear protection rated at…130db…and they are still contesting it!
I’ll look into that GB internal ,external and as Aimer Comms headset ATLJ Helmet, Class action who’s the Solicitors handling the Claim ?
Mk 8 4.5inch is an AA and Su medium defence weapons shells fused high for AA 20 rounds a minute of 56lb of fragmenting Steel and RDX messes up your day Johnathan
Hi Tommo the 4.5 does not do AA anymore..they removed the software support for engaging air airborne targets and the AA fusing options…it’s literally only able to engage surface or land based targets…they did not want to do the upgrade work so just removed the capability a few years ago.
Cheers bet they feel silly now did the job well when in use when fused low for Surface engagements we used it as an Antiship missile ( exocet ) wall of shrapnel defence hope they still have the ability too do that as 23s don’t have Phalanx if a sea skimmer gets through
Indeed, my worry is that the T23 does have that CIWS sized hole in its capabilities..just keep our fingers crossed it’s not needed.
Good old foreword thinking by the MOD enough said on that matter Johnathan
There is a reason the 23’s were supposed to have been replaced already. In the horrible event of any casualties, they will sit squarely in the laps of the people that made the decision to delay that.
Software can be updated. It wouldn’t be crazy hard to do as a UOR project.
The shells could well be in storage. As the last hydraulic 4.5” only went out of service 5/6 years ago?
In the late 80’s there were mountains of air burst. The quantities were unbelievable. AAW was seen as a major role for anything that went bang.
It would be very useful for knocking out the drones from a serious distance.
If that could be done it really should be…
The Tanked rds for the mk8 where starshell and HE the HE had in its nose 3 fuses High,Low,Proximity the Ops room would select Air Surface ,Proximity, as the round went up the hoist to the Gun it would pass 2 blades (knives) which would set which fuse and disable the others
Oh forgot ReI and ReJ rds Chaff
The question is did the round get simplified to reduce costs?
The rounds I was thinking of were specifically made as airburst and marked as such. But were a much older vintage….
The old mk 6 turret those Rds were seperate from the Cordite the Automatic Mk 8 the Rd and Cordite was joined into 1 and were just HE apart from Chaff and starshell probably a cost and manpower saving 6 personnel too a mk 6 turret and 6 in the gunbay Mk 8 none in the turret except when conducting SOCS that was 2 that read offGPIs training and elevation
indicators they would be from the gunbay whose crew was 3 to 4 and 2 in the turret control rm
So cost and manpower was certainly a benefit too the MOD sb
Fuse wiping gear is the WE term…
Thanks GB so long ago
This really doesn’t seem like something that should be posted publicly.
Well it’s public information……
The info is already out there for the whole world to see!
Wonder whether it would not be rational to dispatch HMS Dauntless to the Red Sea. PIP mod completed, tested, no concerns re partial/complete propulsion failure. Granted, six mo. shakedown cruise ended in Dec., and probably in maintenance, cycle, but still remains at X hours notice to sail. Crew may be somewhat disbursed, but could be recalled and supplemented as necessary. The Red Sea/Gulf of Aden is now essentially a warzone, no longer an area of grey zone conflict. Eventually Daring and Dragon should become available for substitution. HMS Defender would be the ideal candidate, after completion of PIP and CAMM mods, but not certain whether schedule could be accelerated from the projected 2026 completion. No disrespect intended toward HMS Richmond, but not certain that it is the most rational plan to risk one of the few updated and functional T-23s (per PGMU installation) w/ a non battle tested weapon system, against potential salvos of missles and drones. Alternatively, there is surely some safe NATO exercise in which HMS Richmond could productively participate.
Completely agree…it’s unfortunately not the correct conflict to be sending a blue water ASW frigate..I think the problem is the RN has been reduced down to a size to allow standing tasks only….fighting a war even a limited one means sacrifices around standing tasks and planned major set piece exercises.as well as regenerating capabilities that were lost….which are designed as major bits in the deterrent against china or Russia thinking it can kick off…..
so HMG seems to struggling with the send what is needed to the Red Sea conflict and scupper or limit the planned deterrent exercises and capability regeneration or don’t send what is needed to the Red Sea and all the risk that entails…The US is going to have the Same issue soon around carrier availability…will it pull a carrier from the pacific….which sends a whole deadly message to china…or keep pounding the crew of the Eisenhower after they should have gone home..
The fact western politicians played with the peace dividend way after it became evident we had a lot of enemies gunning for us is starting to become a problem.
To put it bluntly, wrong ship for the task! T23 is not an area defence asset whilst it’s got CAMM, it is lacking in a T45 s capabilities.
Let’s be honest, the only reason Richmond is in situ, is because we currently don’t have a T45 available to relieve Diamond. The two that are in maintenance could probably sail, but, we don’t know the downstream impacts that might have on future programming, hence while one probably hasn’t been dispatched to fill the void.
It’s all about risk, and sending a T23 into this role is arguably a large one. Hopefully Diamond will be back on station sooner rather than later. I suspect that if this goes on for a while longer, then one of the T45s in maintenance will be tasked to relieve her.
I agree..unfortunately we are now in a place where the RN needs to fight a conflict, regenerate lost capabilities, do standing tasks and undertake major set piece deterrent exercises against two belligerent peers..all the while only really having the forces to generate standing tasks….all due to our political classes refusing to let go of the peace dividend and end of history rubbish when it was clear it all going wrong a decade ago…
Remember, Diamond shot a drone down with her guns, which I assume were her 30 mm, and T23 carries them too. They may be considering them a CIWS for this job?
Hi joe, it’s no so much the drones, as the 30mm can manage low speed air threats…it’s the fact it does not have a CIWS for missile defence.
HMS Richmond is not a AAD/AAW specialist vessel.
So can she provide wide area protection with CAMM and some limited CIWS?
Course not.
I hope the shadow SoS for defence keeps quiet on that one seeming as they cut T45 from 12 to 8 to 6.
Indeed..would have been nice to have 2 more of those now…..although I would be just as happy if Richmond had a CIWS and and medium gun that could engage airborne targets….
Jonathan
Would have been better if T26 had been ordered in 2010… they would have been in play now.
Just saying Daniele.
Yes the delay on the order in 2010 was the kicker the contract had been signed for 7000 ton vessel in early 2010 and then the Cameron government changed the spec late in 2010…the brown government should have actually had the thing ordered and the keel laid by 2010….idiots all.
100%
💯
Indeed, J has covered that several times and that is squarely at the Tories door. No new frigate for 2 decades is beyond belief.
T45s 7 and 8 were sacrificed to accelerate GCS too.
💯
We could have started the T31 2 years earlier too … MOD procrastination !!
A CIWS should surely be standard for every escort, Amphib, and RFA. The RN introduced them after our ships were found wanting in 82, to the T42s. The T22s only had Goalkeeper on the B3s.
I assume the T23 didn’t get them due to a mix of VL Seawolf and penny pinching.
After 82 we went into dry Dock removed our workboat, whaler,and Capt huntress Deck the areas out installed 2x30mm twin and 2x20mm plus ourc2x20mm 7alphas all for a perceived AA threat in future Conflicts if there had been room I’m sure a Phalanx would have been fitted it was all about AA protection Sending an ill equipped T23 into a risky area will be headline grabbing news if anything amiss happens
They have 2 x 30mm DS30M with FCEO/Sea Eagle E/O trackers, which have an air defence capability (Diamond already used hers to shoot down a drone).
If the Mk 8 is still using the HE Tanked rds then the shell should still contain 3 fuses high low proximity hopefully rejigging and updating could be possible too enable the turret to do the job it was intended too do
👍
Pretty much what T42 could do range wise only more accurately and reliably.
Richmond is 10 years older and much less equipped. Could be a siting duck while Diamond is being serviced
Good luck to her and her crew. She will do her duty in the finest traditions of the RN. 🇬🇧
You know it!
The Red sea Houthi threat to merchant shipping needs another T45 air defence ship replacing Diamond, not a much shorter reach T23. Though I’m sure Richmond will give their sall within the capabiities she does have.
100%
On appearance alone, there is room on top of the T-23 Hangar for a Phalanx. I don’t see why one couldn’t be installed? They can operate autonomously of the CMS.
Repurposed from the stock used on the Tide’s
The MOD would probably say they’ve looked into that but there’s too many Blind arcs you can’t get a full 180 sweep down each side Any excuse too under arm a frontline asset
The fact they have never done it speaks volumes really. The 23 was designed as an ASW Frigate not a GP.
For ASW a lot of the weight TAS, Bow Sonar, Electric motors, Magazines, missiles etc etc are low down in the ship. And that for the stability of a ship is a very good thing.
But the T23 had a party trick to go for maximum quietness, is fitted with 4 very highly shrouded DG sets for slow and silent running on Electric only.
Unusually 2 of those are mounted high up forward of the funnel so are remote from the sea and ultra quiet.
Given that and 30 odd years of natural weight growth and a CIWS is over 6 Tonnes I’d guess fitting one would have a very negative effect.
Topweight !
Margin…
There isn’t any left so it wont get a CIWS…and it doesn’t need one.
500 square miles means a maxium firing range of about 13 miles, which is rather pitiful compared to the firing range of 75-100 miles of hms diamond
Says it all. No T45 like-for-like replacement. Sea Ceptor much shorter range. Richmond more endangered.
Diamond has done a great job, but I suspect she is bang out of missiles. I doubt her silos were full to start with.
It might be helpful if Martlet Missile pods were added to 30mm bushmaster cannons.
See article below at Navy Lookout
https://www.navylookout.com/royal-navy-test-fires-ship-mounted-martlet-lightweight-multi-role-missile/
This will be an interesting test of CAMM- although I doubt we’ll see the true range figures of any potential engagement if it’s outside of the publicly stated figures.
Am I right in thinking this has the potential to be CAMM’s first shots in anger?
While it doesn’t have the range of Aster, it’s probably worth noting that it can still manage quite a reasonable area of ground- especially if HMS Richmond is sailing in between the Yemeni coast and the shipping lane (which I presume she will). The biggest problem is that it may force transport ships to bunch up a bit more to benefit from being in the AAD bubble.
A question to more knowledgeable types . Does Richmond , a frigate, have the same air defence capability as Diamond . Aren’t the 2 ships designed for different roles , one for air defence the other a sub hunter ?
No in a word. One has a massive powerfully radar and long range missiles on it, plus a high end long range volume search radar, the other has a small radar and (,relatively) short range missiles.
The T45 exists to defend an area around several ships, the frigate…an area around the ship itself, in a nutshell.
AA
Thanks
👍Exactly!
It has a radar that can track targets at over 100miles along with the same EW fit and data link capabilities as a T45. Yes Ceptor is shorter ranged but it also has an anti surface capability and a shorter min engagement range. It also has some other interesting features not available to aster.
Thanks GB I was simplifying things somewhat to illustrate the main differences but as you say, Artisan is capable, with Ceptor, of providing area coverage to a reasonable distance.
The interesting features sound…interesting. For me, the soft launch (although it can hardly be that soft lofting a missile in the air) is the standout feature of the system saving the mod hundreds of pounds in paint every time you launch one….
AA
Let’s be honest the RN should have a dozen AAW destroyers and the same number of ASW frigates as the core of it’s escort fleet. That is 4 of each routinely available (using the rule of 3) more if you need to surge the deployment. In addition it should have at least half a dozen patrol/presence ships. With regard to the current situation I would be far more relaxed about a T-31 pulling duty in the Red Sea than as present a T-23.
The RN only needed 11 ASW T23s, out of the 16 total, ordered at time of the Cold War. The ruZZian sub threat is only a fraction of what is was then! They also had the T22s at the time.
So if we are sticking with the rule of 3, would you prefer 9 or 12 ?
9 T26’s I would choose for a RoT. I would preferably build one more as a spare. The advantage of a spare is
the whole crew of a broken down vessel move over to the spare. The RAF rotate their spare airframes, to spread out airframe hours of flight.
The RN could of asked for 7 T45s.
Diamond arrived in Gibraltar on Sat 10 Feb to resupply and get some R&R. Good to see Gib getting more heavily used.
At least Richmond has had the PGMU engine upgrade. I am concerned the Diamond remains on the to do list for her PIP improvements. I thought that Dauntless (Type 45) is currently available and has had the PIP ??
Dauntless had been deployed in the Windies since summer, and came home for Xmas.