Type 23 frigate HMS Sutherland has been high and dry for well over 12 months, taken out of the water for her LIFEX (life extension) refit in the hands of Babcock.

Sutherland is the last ship in her class to go through the overhaul, which – as the name suggests – extends the life of the frigates to allow them to continue in service into the mid-2030s.

“While in dry dock in Devonport’s frigate refit complex, Sutherland has undergone a full structural survey and a major upgrade including 700 inserts, 11,500 weld repairs demanding more than five kilometres of welding.

Entire sections of the ship have been deconstructed and then rebuilt to allow engine, generator and machinery control upgrades: forward and aft switchboards, new diesel generator and motor generator sets in the forward and upper auxiliary machinery rooms, as well as the installation of several miles of new pipework and cables.

As a fighting machine, Sutherland has also received an upgraded 2150 Sonar system, requiring the removal of the sonar bow dome – a major lifting operation involving specialist support.

And she’s the very last ship in her class to receive the Sea Ceptor missile system – now proven in action after HMS Richmond downed drones at the weekend.”

Tom has spent the last 13 years working in the defence industry, specifically military and commercial shipbuilding. His work has taken him around Europe and the Far East, he is currently based in Scotland.
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Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_803527)
6 months ago

“ And she’s the very last ship in her class to receive the Sea Ceptor missile system – now proven in action after HMS Richmond downed drones at the weekend.”

Uh?

VLSW was withdrawn some time ago.

Or maybe should read:-

And she’s was the very last ship in her class to receive the Sea Ceptor missile system…….?

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky (@guest_803553)
6 months ago

Read this 5 times what am I missing between the original meaning and your version? The only difference is ‘she’s was the very last…’ which itself doesn’t make grammatical sense whereas ‘she’s the very last…’ of the original actually does to me.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_803556)
6 months ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

The article implies that she only just had Sea Ceptor fitted…..so she could have been capability gapped…..but I don’t think so…..

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus (@guest_803577)
6 months ago

What happens to the old stock of Seawolf ? I expect that Ukraine would have some use for the missiles and would be able to improvise a launching system, though perhaps radar and targeting might be an issue.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_803581)
6 months ago

No idea TBH.

Comms would be an issue as it wasn’t exactly open architecture and used a lot of clever bespoke solutions for the time.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_803619)
6 months ago

The 911 radar directors for sea Wolf were pretty big…it would be a cumbersome old thing..I’m pretty sure you were looking at something like 13 tones for the radar directors fire control and launcher for the older sea Wolf sextuplets launcher….so heath Robinsoning something from the vertical launchers, 911 radar directors and fire controllers would be hard work.

ABCRodney
ABCRodney (@guest_803584)
6 months ago

When she de-stored in 2020 for her Lifex refit she was the last ship with the VLSW, I have no idea if the system was still operational or not.
So she is / was the last T23 to get Sea Ceptor fitted.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_803585)
6 months ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Crikey 2020 -> 2024 for a LIFEX…..

I know it isn’t really but that is a long time out of service.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay (@guest_803599)
6 months ago

COVID will undoubtedly have extended that refit period.

Hugo
Hugo (@guest_803629)
6 months ago

Don’t Forget Covid threw a spanner in the works.

Tom
Tom (@guest_803639)
6 months ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

So the ship has been ‘off the roster’ of active ships, since 2020?

Paul T
Paul T (@guest_803656)
6 months ago
Reply to  Tom

Daring has since 2017 by comparison I believe 🤔

Tom
Tom (@guest_803682)
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Wow that’s mental! let me guess… no enough crew to go around?

Paul T
Paul T (@guest_803885)
6 months ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Strictly speaking HMS Monmouth was the last T23 to still have VLSW before being decommisioned in 2021.

Hugo
Hugo (@guest_803628)
6 months ago

There’s a massive difference in the cost of civilian conversions and rebuilding an ancient frigate, only to get 4-5 more years out of it.

Andrew D
Andrew D (@guest_803795)
6 months ago
Reply to  Hugo

Sad thing is the later Type 23s were sold of to Chili I believe for a cut down price 😞 🇬🇧

Hugo
Hugo (@guest_803810)
6 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Certainly that shouldn’t have been done. Though 2nd hand warships generally don’t retain anywhere close to their original cost to build cause they’re neither optimal for the navy taking them on, and after a few years any ship will need more maintenance

Meirion X
Meirion X (@guest_804168)
5 months ago
Reply to  Hugo

I think at time the UK was holding the former Chilean dictator as a prisoner, for war crimes, abuses etc?

Meirion X
Meirion X (@guest_803722)
6 months ago

“…both Montrose and Monmouth were post refit and were only retired from the age issue they should be dragged into service again.”

No, both Montrose and Monmouth were totally knackered!

Jim
Jim (@guest_803545)
6 months ago

It’s amazing how cutting edge these ships still are after so many years of service.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky (@guest_803558)
6 months ago
Reply to  Jim

Good ships indeed and still effective, just wonder if the cost of extending their lives was better than building their replacements earlier as originally planned which itself delayed the Bae Frigate shed. But hey ho it is what it is and at least they seem competitive now, wish we hadn’t lost a couple through dilapidated old age and was that due to them being flogged in expectation of them never being expected to need LIFEX, or alternatively should have happened earlier before so much rot had set in. Errors in decision making somewhere in the last decade just a matter… Read more »

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon (@guest_803631)
6 months ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

The ‘positive’ of an anticipated war is that it tends to a) focus the mind & b) reduce investment gapping. No-one now talking about the peace dividend other than in a disapproving manner. Now – money where mouths are……..

Frank
Frank (@guest_803559)
6 months ago
Reply to  Jim

Just like Triggers Broom….😎

Dave Wolfy
Dave Wolfy (@guest_803705)
6 months ago
Reply to  Frank

Ship of Theseus

Bringer of facts
Bringer of facts (@guest_803548)
6 months ago

“Sea Ceptor missile system – now proven in action”

I would expect Sea Ceptor to be technically an overmatch for drones, but can they take out the Houth’is Anti-ship cruise missile and Anti-ship ballistic missiles ? the latter probably being very hard to intercept

Last edited 6 months ago by Bringer of facts
Bringer of facts
Bringer of facts (@guest_803552)
6 months ago

“Sea Ceptor missile system – now proven in action”

OK but,Sea Ceptor should be technically an over-match for drones,
The biggest damage is being caused by anti-ship ballistic missiles.

Right now the Houthis have concentrated their attacks on non-military vessels.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_803554)
6 months ago

Sutherland and Richmond are both ASW frigates I believe, so their recent return is very welcome. T23 is still a top drawer ASW frigate.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF (@guest_803657)
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Believe article describes PGMU mod w/out explicitly stating that. Correct in inferring RN thus has some level of confidence in durability of HMS Sutherland? 🤔

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_803659)
6 months ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

I’ve not taken notice of which frigates are getting the PGMU upgrade. But I’m sure the MOD won’t be paying for it if the ship can last until its banned OSD without it. So yes, Sunderland should be around a while. 🙂

Bringer of facts
Bringer of facts (@guest_803561)
6 months ago

Any progress/timetable for the NSM fit-outs on the T23s? I know HMS Somerset has them fitted.

Paul T
Paul T (@guest_803608)
6 months ago

Portand next for NSM.

Paul T
Paul T (@guest_803680)
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Hms Portland even 🙄

Mark P
Mark P (@guest_803562)
6 months ago

The RN published this article last week and then I was wondering where main bulk of her new crew are going to come from to join her skeleton crew? Will they cross deck HMS Northumberland’s crew as she is due to come into dry dock for maintenance this month? If that is the case, could they possibly cross deck HMS Kent’s crew to HMS Argill when she is dry docked in June? Maybe not relisic but just my thoughts

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_803572)
6 months ago
Reply to  Mark P

All depends on what Draftie see fit personnel due Seatine and Personnel due shore time

DH
DH (@guest_803579)
6 months ago
Reply to  Tommo

Yo Tommo, is Centurion still in the same place?? Did a stint in FAA drafty. Early baldness resulted. 👌😶🕳️

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_803607)
6 months ago
Reply to  DH

I do believe Centurion down by the old Rowner estate has gone as with everything bar Sultan and Colin wood on the Gosport side has gone my pension is run by EQ of Crawley West Sussex

Stu
Stu (@guest_803681)
6 months ago
Reply to  Mark P

Yes in short, large %anyway

Meirion X
Meirion X (@guest_803726)
6 months ago
Reply to  Mark P

It is unlikely that Sunderland will return to sea soon. Most likely later in the year or even next year?
St. Albans was in the pond for most of last year, and only recently returned to sea!

Last edited 6 months ago by Meirion X
Frank
Frank (@guest_803760)
6 months ago
Reply to  Meirion X

Absolutely, Montrose and Monmouth are awaiting Scrapping, Westminster soon to join them in the Hardway and at least one other soon. That leaves just the 9 and I’ll bet another 2 go cold before Glasgow is commissioned….. leaving just 7 of the 16 built…. that’s some Gap.

Mark P
Mark P (@guest_804130)
5 months ago
Reply to  Frank

Not all the T23’s were ever at sea at the same time, only normal half of them at the very most. So as long as there at least seven in sea worthiness when the T26’s and T31’s start to arrive. I wouldn’t be surprised to see HMS Lancaster axed when she returns home from the Gulf at the end of next year?

Mark P
Mark P (@guest_804116)
5 months ago
Reply to  Meirion X

Oh yeah I appreciate that she’ll be quiet a while before she is ready to go to sea but at least it’s a step in the right direction. Hopefully they can find a crew for Argill too.

Karl
Karl (@guest_803720)
6 months ago

An amazing ship glad I got to serve on her 🙂