Irish military concerned UK rescue aircraft could ‘collect intelligence’

I hadn’t heard of this. I found this very interesting article about it.

How Britain eavesdropped on Dublin | The Independent | The Independent

That’s the fella.

Nothing will have changed, it will now take place elsewhere.

One of the UK’s jewels is actually our location concerning worldwide cable traffic.

You’ll note the name Duncan Campbell in that article. A researcher who was a thorn in the governments side for decades, you may recall the ABC trial from the 70s.

One of the upshots of that was that even the Post Office Tower in London was meant to be secret and could not be acknowledged!! ( Same comms traffic as Capenhurst too )

I love history, and have anumber of letters (admittedly earned late in life) on a piece of paper saying so… those naughty Irish Scotti tribe, sailing everywhere….lol

Morning Daniele. this is fun ! 🙂

Morning geoff. It is, but probably the wrong forum?!

The Roman Legions came from all over the Empire. Just as likely to be from North Africa, the Balkans or the Near East. I think that ‘Scots’ is derived from ‘Scotii’. The Picts are still something of a mystery in terms of language etc. Much of Southern Scotland was part of the Angle kingdom of Northumbria….hence the predominantly Anglified place names there. The Scots Gaelic influence predominates in the Highland and Islands. As has been mentioned, these island have been subjected to waves of immigration since the end of the last Ice-Age. It is sobering to think that however ethnic you feel, we are all immigrants! At the last glacial maximum there was nobody here….except Kilroy of course 🙂

True, especially after the Marius reforms and in the classical period of the empire. In the Republic days most Legionaries were still Italians. Later of course very few were actually Italian, but all Roman.

If I’m going to be picky, the Legions were not even engaged at Mons Grapius. The Auxilia were.

Yes, Picts. The painted ones. Agree Scots comes from Scotii, I think who were actually the tribes in Ireland who then raided after the Romans left and settled Scotland.

Talking of Auxilia, Hadrian brought some thousands over and settled them on Hadrians Wall. They may have been the source of the Arthur legends.

Love History, especially Roman.

I am sure that you are right with your encyclopaedic knowledge of army organisation. However, I think that legionnaires were at Mons and that Auxiliary troops at this time were regionally sourced i.e. low countries, Germany….so not Italians per se. Am I being picky or just Picty…sorry about that one.
As for Picts being the painted ones, this appears to be an an Iron-age custom across Britain…what with all that woad. I think that Tacitus remarked upon them engaging in battle with their naked bodies covered in blue dye. Must have been bloody disconcerting that. Fancy being attacked by blue men waving their genitalia at you! I can only assume that the Brits thought that they were better endowed than the opposition. Mind you, what an irresistible target for a gladius/pilum wielding infantry man . 🙂

Sorry H, I didn’t explain myself correctly. You’re not being picky, just not getting my meaning.
Of course Legions were at Mons Grapius, I said they were not engaged, I did not say they were absent. Accounts suggest they were held in reserve and did not get involved in fighting, and the front rank who were Auxilia engaged, and Roman cavalry also.
Of course Auxilia were not Italians, I meant the Legionaries were, in the early empire. By Hadrians time most were not, as you said.
As early as 43 with the Claudian invasion of Britain Auxilia I recall from Belgium and the coastal area of whats now the Netherlands defeated the Brits at Medway, forget the trubes name…? So yes, peoples who the Romans considered Barbarians formed the Auxilia. Sarmations, Thracians, Germans, Illyrians, all sorts. Archers were from the east, slingers from Crete.

As for body paint and covering their hair with Lime, I think Celts and others considered it manly showing scars and their naked bodies with no fear. Maybe they did think they were better endowed!
Idiots! The Romans would make mincemeat of them. God knows what the Legionaries thought seeing such a sight.

I’d also read suggestions the Grampians get their name from the battle, though unsure on the validity of that.

Thoroughly enjoying the UK Roman history forum! Hope this isn’t p***** other’s off.

If you go to Hadrians wall you can be treated to a memorial to a unit of Syrian Archers that was stationed on the wall, and I don’t think there where many Syrian’s locally available in northern Britain.
Some units where locally sourced, some where not, some where initially raised in one place,stationed somewhere else and then slowly changed their make up as the time passed and recruits came from their station, instead of where they where raised.

I’ve visited Housesteads and Vindolanda.
Is the memorial at either? Don’t recall seeing it.

I believe it’s at Vindolanda, but it’s been years since I’ve been so I might be mistaken. I recall a little pillar tucked in a quiet corner of the grounds, thoroughly modern, dedicated to the 1st Cohort of Hamians, a Syrian unit stationed on the wall.
I believe it’s based on evidence from funeral stones and diplomas (discharge papers of Auxilliaries) that mentions the unit serving on the wall after campaigns in Romania, but it’s late at night and my memory is quite foggy, as I said, it’s been years since I’ve been up to Hadrians Wall.
(edit: Plus I never really like the Imperial Roman Army as a subject, I was always more interested in the periods that came before it.)

Me to mate. Have a deep knowledge of Roman warfare and history, and sad as it may seem, when able, I get my camping kit and choose a route, and walk identifiable (and probable) Roman routes and roads, camp at fort/marching camp sites and continue the next day. Even got my missus doing, it, although where she is form its hot and dry and a lot more visible remains to see, so she gets bore much quicker……lol cheers.

Spot on mate in the Republic the Army was a temporary organisation, and raised for a specific time, for a specific campaign, from those Latins who had a vested interest in fighting, such as the land owners and others with the property which qualified them. The later Army, once as you say, Marius got hold of it, changed considerably, certainly after the critieria changed for joining, which eventualy led to the professional Legions owing loyalty to a decent commander than to the encumbent emperor. Sorry mate I could waffle about this all night but, this isn’t the site…..lol

Waffle away.

I’m impressed about your road marching. Found the Battle of Watling St location yet?

Lol wouldn’t that be something. There’s a number of locations along the A5 but the description given is a little vague. Seutonius would have chose the best position to prevent flanking movement, ie in the valley with the heavy forest to the rear. Maximising his position and ensuring the Britons heavier numbers didn’t come into play. I have to say I do map studies, 1:25000 are better, then choose known or likely (where their should a fort or marching camp) routes, then take the time to plot and plan a route and go for it. South and mid Wales is good, as is East Anglia and Lancashire. Always fun and always find google maps, in aerial picture overview an excellent help. Also have a few sites I go on which are using LIDAR, and these show unknown or suspected roads and route, marching camps etc like never before. It’s a hobby, one as I haven’t had much time for over the last few years.

Fan bloody tastic mate.

Yes, that is as far as we know regards location. A tiny clue. Must be along that route as direct from Anglesey and the Druids!

All fine except that although Gaelic predominated in the western isles, this is emphatically not the case in Orkney or Shetland, where the language was Norn (old norse). There is no gaelic tradition in Shetland, although the SNP government don’t seem to be aware of this, so for instance we have bilingual signage on police cars etc.

An interesting error by the Scottish government! And, don’t these islands traditionally return Liberal MPs not SNP secessionists?

Yes we do, and because of this we are treated more harshly than other areas when it comes to central government support for local authority and local transport. Last time round the SNP tried really really hard to win, and Shetland was plastered from end to end with SNP election posters, visits by grandees etc, to the point where it was subsequently proven that they had exceeded the legal maximum election expenses limit. They still lost.

The Gaelic guff boils my piss. Train station signs and as you say the police and ambulances… A lot of romanticised keech. Another small thing to make us ‘different’ from those evil English. Its been a loooooooong time since anyone outside of the He-brides spoke Gaelic, certainly not in the Central belt where the vast majority of us live. Some weirdo’s even send their kids to schools to learn it, I’d be more keen for kids to learn Spanish or whatever than some near dead language.

Sorry for the rant, I just find the whole Gaelic thing futile, fair enough if you grew up with it and I’ve no problem keeping the language alive, its the insistence that its some kind of national language.

Totally agree. And if the decisions were related to real world utility, it would be more relevant in Shetland if the second language in bilingual signs here was Polish, Hungarian or Latvian…

Can’t argue with you Trevor, said the same thing about Polish being more useful.

We don’t have the same drive to revive Doric etc, its nothing but a cheap ploy to ‘unite’ us and make us different to the Morris Dancers. It must cost a small fortune to come up with the signage too.

The Picts and Caledonians where the inhabitants of Scotland during the Roman Empire Daniele, however the Scots themselves where a Tribe that lived in Ireland and migrated to Scotland in the 400’s and founded the Kingdom of Dal Riada.

Yep, pretty much what I’d said.

Had not heard of Dal Riada mind.

We are all a heady mix of ancient Briton, Anglo Saxon , jutes Danes and Norse,, and throw in a few Irish and there we go, a real mix, and one I have researched and proud of. Ànd the amusing thing is we are all started in Europe. Cheers mate.

We’re all out of Africa if we go back far enough.

I had my DNA analysed as a birthday gift from the wife…! Male and Female lines.
The results were the two largest parts of my make up are from northern Italy and Austria for my father’s side, obviously. For my mother, my British side, there is a very strong strain of Sami, indigenous Reindeer herders from northern Finland and Russia!

No wonder I rarely feel the cold!

I’m curious enough to try this stuff but my missus (who works in cancer research with genetics) is very sceptical. She knows a guy who’s set up one of the companies doing it. Her main ‘concern’ is the companies can sell on this info apparently, you pay them to do it too so they make money at both ends of it.

I doubt I’m very ‘exotic’ but you never know, my money is on basic Jock/Boggy.

I think that there is a strong element of guff with these commercial services as well. More like fortune telling than science. I think that it is easier if you are descended from recent immigrants, but more problematic over many generations. DNA doesn’t lie, but the interpretation of it can be subjective!

I think its got better Herodotus, at least so I’ve been told but that might vary from company to company.

Asked the missus about it after posting the above and she reckons we’ll be able to get it done on the NHS at some point.

Hopefully, the NHS will charge for it and provide a valuable source of income for them. I would certainly buy a DNA test from them rather than Mystic Meg Genetics!

Me to again mate, I’m a heady mix of Northern European, and ancient Briton….with small percentage of Norse. As has been said, how accurate these tests are can be debated but still interesting to look into.

Garvie Island a better location I suggest, when range firing is on….

Or maybe Gruinard!!!! LOL!

Morning Mark. Enjoying the Craic 🙂 Regards