The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that the integration of the MBDA Meteor missile with the F-35B Lightning II has slipped again, with in-service capability now expected in the early 2030s—with 2027 being the previously estimated date.
The confirmation came in response to a written parliamentary question by Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Conservative – Huntingdon), who asked the Defence Secretary to provide the planned in-service date and integration timeline for the ramjet-powered, beyond-visual-range Meteor missile.
In a written reply, Maria Eagle MP, Minister of State for Defence, stated:
“Integration of the MBDA Meteor ramjet-powered air-to-air missile with F-35B is driven by the US-led Lightning II Joint Programme Office; the estimated current timeline for in-service capability is expected to be early 2030s.”
This marks the first time the UK Government has publicly acknowledged that Meteor integration will not occur this decade, effectively abandoning the previously stated target of 2027 as a viable option. This also isn’t the only munition to slip right, with SPEAR 3 also falling to the “early 2030s”.
Previous governments had previously stated that Meteor would be integrated onto the UK’s F-35Bs by the “middle of this decade”. In recent times, that ambition was later refined to 2027, which was always described as the earliest possible date, subject to risk.
In February 2022, we reported:
“British F-35B jets were to be equipped with Meteor missiles by the ‘middle of this decade’ originally. The information came to light in a response to a written question submitted in the House of Commons.”
The 2021 Defence Equipment Plan similarly warned:
“Entry into service is not anticipated to be until 2027 and there is a possibility that integration pressures in the programme may incur further delays because of challenges in the wider F-35 programme.”
This estimate followed the assignment of Meteor to the Follow-On Development Programme (FODP) by the U.S.-led F-35 Joint Programme Office (JPO), and contract awards to Lockheed Martin in early 2021. The UK’s plan was therefore always conditional, with 2027 listed as the earliest achievable date. The new answer provided in June 2025 now makes clear that 2027 is no longer considered realistic, with early 2030s now forming the working estimate.
The integration delay spans multiple UK governments and is not attributable to any one political administration, as the timeline is governed primarily by the U.S.-led Joint Programme Office and the programme’s prime contractor, Lockheed Martin.
Despite the slippage in full operational capability, some progress has been made. On 28 February 2025, the Royal Air Force confirmed that the first test flights of a Meteor missile on an F-35B had been successfully conducted by the United States Marine Corps at Naval Air Station Patuxent River.
The tests involved an inert Meteor missile, flown to collect environmental data and validate aerodynamic behaviour as part of the integration process. The sorties were the result of extensive collaboration between the UK and US governments, Defence Equipment & Support, MBDA, and Lockheed Martin.
Air Commodore Al Roberts, the RAF’s Head of Air-to-Air Missiles, described the milestone as follows:
“This milestone is a testament to the effective collaboration between the multinational governmental and industrial partnerships that we have in place. Inclusion of Meteor onto the Lightning II will bring this formidable air combat capability to the UK and to the burgeoning F-35 community, significantly enhancing security among allies.”
Meteor is a beyond-visual-range missile with a ramjet propulsion system, providing a far larger no-escape zone and longer effective range than AMRAAM. It is already in operational service on the Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale, and Gripen. Until full integration is achieved on F-35B, the UK will continue to rely on the AIM-120D AMRAAM for long-range engagements aboard its carrier-deployed fifth-generation fighters.
Another reason it’s so important for Britain to be building it’s own jets….
Yep. This just reinforces all the previous concerns – we should be buying as few F35s as we can get away with and not one more.
It would be much better to invest money in UCAS and in particular a ‘loyal wingman’ for the existing F35 fleet.
Fair points. It seems likely that this kit will never actually fit on a F35 – we might as well just move on.
UAVs will probably be the most likely vehicle for these types of missiles before too long.
What an absolute waste of time, money, UK-US relationship and the F35B itself. Unbelievable silly buggers. Britain should build its own Sea Harrier 2 if they want vstol.
No point in contemplating what might have been. The only thing we (in the UK) can influence is the future.
Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with the Meteor and the incorrect assumption of… “actually fit”, in fact that has already been proven otherwise by UK-US tests in the USA. The latter proved that (a) a UK weapon can only be tested on a US operated airframe flown by (b) a US pilot and that (c) all weapons trial data is first evaluated by US personnel. Overall, the U.S controlled ‘F-35 Joint Programme Office’ (JPO) prefers to ‘drag its feet’ (to put it mildly) to block UK designed and manufactured weapons. The reason is obvious – commercial. Buying a US F35 airframe (albeit 15% UK in the case of the F35B) means having to abide by US weapons fits. Easy money for them.
I have absolutely NO understanding as to why we are even contemplating buying the F35A for it to carry a US manufactured and CONTROLLED Nuclear B61-12 gravity bomb. The F35A with an American nuclear bomb is just one complete US weapons system albeit with an RAF pilot – and we have to pay for that insult !
The UK Defence Policy (?) is starting to remind of the bad old days of Denis Healey (research and weep).
I think there is much agreement on here that F35 hasn’t been a great success. This is now making the best of a bad job and building something better ourselves ASAP.
Carrier Strike would be a pretty meaningless exercise without the F35B – there aren’t any realistic alternatives available.
Carrier Strike is rapidly heading toward meaningless as it is, what with so few weapons (ironically other than air defence) and even less as effective strike capabilities. Meanwhile China is producing missiles (which as Pakistan proved even in limited export versions) are very effective at long range. At this rate by 2030 our F35s will be closer to being Airshow Ponies than effective strike platforms. Certainly the only effectiveness they will have will be near exclusively what the US provides us. To think we gave up Replica for this state of affairs.
We can bury our heads in the sand but our Carrier Group certainly in the Pacific pretty much has the capability at best to defend itself and little else as things stand and for years to come and only the Stealth of the F-35 will give it any hope of defeating modern Chinese aircraft with AMRAAM, jeez I’m still trying to confirm if the Indian Rafales being shot out of the sky recently by Pakistan’s Chinese missiles were armed with Meteor or merely Micas. If they were then this scenario looks even more bleak for our fighter’s chances.
The whole mindset of British military over the last 40-years seems to be based on providing target practice for every hairy-ar**d fuzzy-wuzzy and jumped up little dictator, rather than having anything actually fightee.
What has Gen 3/4 Indian fighters being shot down by SAMs to do with it?
Depends if the US software will integrate with non US loyal wingmen designs. It’s a stitch up. Delay Meteor until the US AIM 260 in full production and sell it cheaper.
I’m normally not partial to conspiracy theories but this take looks to be painfully on the mark.
The US is seemingly very used to getting its own way and expecting ‘little’ countries like ours to ‘suck it up’.
This is why collaborating with like-minded, similarly-sized countries must be the way forward for us. We get much more say in what happens.
Given how slow Meteor production is and how much it’s needed by Typhoon to stay relevant it is not the end of the world. No one else will be flying a 5th gen aircraft in 2030 with anything better than AMRAAM D
Wish I had your confidence Jim considering how the once under estimated J-10 has been performing of late, be it real time against French Rafales or reported tests against Omani Typhoons. I just hope there are explanations for these concerning reports, especially the latter. As I say elsewhere that Stealth had better be effective against the opposition because its firepower will fall short without Meteor’s exceptional range. Even then its out ranged by the PL-15 which has 200 to 300 Km range not to mention Mach-5 performance. I fear we need to be a little less presumptuous about the technical superiority of our platforms and what the Chinese might have to confront it especially by 2030.
If China didn’t believe in stealth it probably would not be investing so much in at-least 4 new stealth aircraft.
Pakistan makes many bold claims but has presented zero proof.
I have no doubt a J10 firing PL15 could hit a Rafale or a Typhoon.
I have serious doubts it would even know an F35 was there much less be able to fire at it.
Was there ever any validated data on how things went in that air battle. Both sides claimed contradictory things unsurprisingly at the time but by now I would expect some actual details of how many missiles fired Vs how many jets taken down etc or at least number of crashes.
There was plenty, most sources provided it quite quickly too.
The Norwegians have got NSM/JSM on F-35 but then they fronted up the money to do it. Te Isralis fronted up the money to integrate all sorts on their F-35. If we can’t cough up the money to integrate Meteor on F-35 in time what makes you think we can afford to develop a whole jet?
This is absolutely rediculous.
In terms of our carriers, what do they actually have in terms of capabilities with the F-35B. They are just on a cruise, if called to respond to a crisis, could they actually do anything offensively?
They can drop Paveway gravity bombs on ground targets or launch AMRAAMs at air targets, and that’s about it.
What else do you want them to do, it’s a fighter bomber. It can drop the worlds best free fall bomb (Paveway IV) and has access to the second best medium range missile (AMRAAM D) and second best short range missile (ASRAAM) with a radar cross section the size of a golf ball.
At this point in its life it has little need for expensive stand off weapons like Meteor and Storm Shadow that Typhoon desperately needs to stay relevant.
Interested on your view of ASRAAM being a second best short range missile. How so?
IRIS-T is much newer and more capable than ASRAAM although ASRAAM is still very good.
Given that they’re operating from our carriers and may some day need to perform an anti-ship role, I’d quite like them to be able to deploy stand-off anti-ship missiles. At present they’d have to get within 15 miles max of a targeted enemy ship – at which range their stealth will be a non-factor.
Meteor is superior to AMRAAM, so I’d rather they have Meteor, and if nothing else, it keeps our sovereign capability going and doesn’t leave us dependent on another nation to supply our missiles. Can they even launch ASRAAM at the moment? I thought that would come with Block IV, seeing as it’s a British missile.
I’d much rather even our stealth aircraft be able to operate stand-off weapons. Even if you think Paveways will do the trick, even if they absolutely will, I’d rather we have options.
Why do you think Typhoon is desperate to be relevant? The US still has F-15s and F-16s as the mainstay of their air force, and F/A-18E/F Super Hornets as the mainstay of their Navy. Typhoon is still incredibly relevant; we just need to keep it updated and keep using them, and not dismiss it already for a shiny new replacement that’s 10 years away at best.
We need more Typhoons, really.
ASRAAM has been integrated with F35B for a couple of years now.
LRASM has been tested once this year on F35B so it’s on its way although no UK plans to buy it yet.
ASRAAM came in block III along with Paveway IV.
All 4th generation aircraft now require stand off weapons to stay relevant in a modern battle space. GBAD are lethal for hundreds of miles and the 4th gen aircraft rely in ECM and long range weapons to over come their inherent difficulties. The F35 does not require such weapons yet however as radar improves the F35 will eventually need stand off weapons.
This is why there was no stand off weapons (except JSOW) in Block II and III but almost everything being added in Block IV is stand off.
This will keep the F35 relevant into the 2040’s.
F-35 can carry the Norwegian NSM & JSM. We have bought some NSM for our ships. We should be buying them for the F-35 but we are still waiting on the useless MBDA to do something with FC/ASW after wasting money and effort for decades.
Come on Jim. Really? You’re content with the idea that a £100 miilion stealth jet can drop a bomb?
“It can drop the worlds best free fall bomb (Paveway IV)”
Try that in a good air defence network and see what you get.
One of the missiles that F-35 is missing is an anti radar one, then a long range air launched ballistic missile.
Can you tell me a free fall bomb that’s better than Paveway IV please?
F35 was never intended to operate with beam riding missile initially primarily because beam riding anti radiation missiles were seen as dated and increasingly ineffective.
The F35’s ability to obtain Geo location data for enemy radars and the use of next gen weapons like Storm Breaker and SPEAR 3 is seen as the primary means of SEAD/DEAD.
The late move to integrate AARGM MR on F35 is primarily coming from the US Navy and Foreign buyers of the F35A although USAF seems onboard now.
The Americans are seriously concerned by even the C versions range and survivability against new Chinese missiles, stealth or otherwise. The reports are there if only partly made public by military reports and sources to no doubt pressure the Govt and Congress. They are deeply concerned even about tankers operating as they do now, plus AWACS and even their carriers. I’m sorry but no one thinks that F-35s will in but rare circumstances will be releasing guided bombs against Chinese targets. That’s only going to be a worse scenario by 2030 and beyond. Yes when the F-35 was being developed they may well have anticipated a certain invulnerability at reasonable range but it’s now seen that in current and future scenarios that expectation was not only hopeful (and arguably naive) back then, but certainly for the most part unsustainable now and especially will be by the thirties. It actually means the F-35 design whatever its undoubted merits overall, is already becoming ill suited to its proposed job and new designs very different in nature, in development as a result including a considerable upgrade to stealth to enable better protection from new or combined radar technology and frequencies that allows advanced tracking and targeting capabilities. Stand off weapons are an absolute necessity for an aircraft already struggling to match modern day range and endurance expectations only exacerbated by the fears for refuelling capabilities. Of course the US has stealth unmanned tankers for that to help in that regard. New designs are expected to more than double F-35A range however. Our carrier strike force with shorter range and limited internal capacity F-35s and no refuelling capability presently, is hardly well placed to get near their parameters. So hardly a promising scenario, even if we had those weapons now but I doubt by the early thirties even with them strike potential or long range carrier group defence will comparatively be much, or perhaps any better. Hopefully aim being too pessimistic but sadly I fear not from what I’m reading. I think the question of buying A versions shows the MoD isn’t ignorant of the rock and hard place they find themselves in and are at least trying to make the best of the RAFs capabilities where possible.
Indeed scary and even American military sources are deeply concerned about their limitations. Presently I am not sure what they could achieve against a peer to peer opponent in any likely scenario as operational options against Russia will be limited without far better weaponry and China none at all and even with long range weaponry and refuelling pretty risky no doubt.
I wonder if we said we’d stop buying F-35 and stop producing F-35 parts for LM until they integrate Meteor how quickly LM would manage it…
This is where I feel we haven’t been using our Tier 1 partner status as forcefully as we should; Israel has the contractual and technical capability to integrate their own equipment- I have no idea why we couldn’t secure the same.
We should definitely be revisiting that citing delays to the project and increasing costs, and limitations to critical operational capabilities that are needed. Should be plenty of legal justification there, and make it a condition of the purchase of our next tranche of aircraft.
I have never seen an Israeli wapon in an F-35. Maybe they have but i never saw it documented.
Elbit Rampage missile is reported to be available as well as what’s described as a 1 tonne bomb.
It’s a fair point, I did a lazy Google search and it seems that they haven’t integrated any weapons on it yet (not publicly, at least).
But Wikipedia says that they have integrated their own EW pods, and have the right to integrate weapons in future if they want.
I think if we indicated we would order 1500-2000 new aircraft that might do the trick. But will we?
The number of aircraft we have ordered does not match the enthusiam of a tier 1 partner. Also the US Government want everyone buying US kit.
I’m not sure that we would not be better to double down on building new aircraft or even building modernised old aircraft. Let’s face it 20 squadrons of spitfires and hurricanes would help against drone attacks!
I wouldn’t go as far as Spitfires and Hurricanes, but definitely a few dozen more Typhoons and some loyal wingman drones.
That’s actually a fair point. We should just order 2,000 F-35Cs to speed up this whole integration debacle.
And as for deploying the BBMF to Kherson—well, that’s also worth serious consideration…
A Lanc with a Grand Slam dropped alongside Putin bridge would wake up the fishes and do the job properly..
Tier 1 partner wasn’t about the number of aircraft ordered, it was about the amount of resources we put into it’s development.
Not sure the Americans would agree with you there. They are acting like they are pi*sed with us because they probably are.
Tough cookies, that’s what the deal was. Let TACO be pissed, he has never been very keen on the truth anyway.
Mid-2030s way too late. This is what happens when you hand over your Sovereign aircraft industry to others.
Time to buy some more UK produced Typhoons.
On the subject of Spitfires and Hurricanes, rather than re-inventing costly new tech, just re-produce some WWII era Typhoons, Tempests or even better – Mosquitos. Great against drones, more than fast enough, give a boost to recruitment, and the Mosquitos are basically 5th gen stealthy if painted with the right stuff.
Fully agree.
Or maybe we should just do it ourselves. We’ve surely got people capable of doing it.
I would definitely give them a proportional deadline to integrate or we drop both F35 and AIM-120
Too right. The government should tell Lockheed Martin they won’t get another payment until this work is completed. They won’t, of course. I don’t suppose they thought to put penalty clauses in the contracts if weapon integration wasn’t carried out by a certain date?
Sound like a good idea.
This is what happens when you ‘buy American’. Long live Typhoon. The sooner the Pork Barrel that is F35 is sunk the better. if we are not careful the F35B will be orphaned and then what? Meteor was truly World Beating, the problem, it is not American.
Hence the delay, the Yanks have a history of scuppering other nations arms industries or projects when they produce kit that’s better than theirs. I suspect it’s not just that LM can’t be bothered, they’ve been told that so we have to buy the AMRAAM for our F35Bs.
Then why is the American military complaint too? They want new weapons for the F35 which are being held up for the same reason.
No big conspiracy, just incompetence at LM.
Definitely some conspiracy.. what weapons are the Americans wanting?
Don’t know how to edit.. of course its a f***£&g conspiracy.. Meteor beat AIM-120 for Typhoon, LM delays Meteor integration onto F-35 forcing continued use of AIM-120, LM designed AIM-260 replaces AIM-120, US “forces/influences/pick your word” UK to replace Meteor with AIM-260(“has a slight edge” and is nicely integrated onto F-35, by that point).. open yer eyes people
You do realise as the one alleging a conspiracy, the onus is on you to provide evidence to prove it…
Well you could just Google it, but American weapons awaiting Block 4 include;
• AGM-88G AARGM-ER,
• AGM-154 JSOW-C1
• AGM-158C LRASM,
• AGM-158XR combined JASSM-ER and LRASM,
• AIM-260 Joint Advanced Tactical Missile (JATM),
• AIM-9X Block II
• GBU-53 Stormbreaker-II glide bomb,
• GBU-54 Laser-JDAM
• Sidekick weapons rack allowing 6 air-to-air missiles to be carried internally
• B61 Mod 12 nuclear bomb
Enough? Or do you still cling to your evidence-free conspiracy theory?
@Spock.. they’re not waiting for Block 4, they’re all waiting for AIM-260(JATM) as that is the priority above any other weapon on any aircraft.. given the timelines and what was developed by who, JATM is probably a modernised/upgraded AMRAAM-ER with stuff “inspired” by Meteor
America has prioritised their weapon load on F35 , non American is not integrated yet, we have to assume to benefit American weapons sales and squeeze euro aero defence.
You sound like a 5 year old.
“America” is a continent.
Lockheed Martin are doing the work and will no doubt have prioritised the needs of their biggest customer first, the US military, as any business would do in the same position. 🤦🏻♂️
We “have to assume” from your attempt to sow suspicion between Europe and America that you’re one of Putin’s “useful idiots”.
I know this is because of block 4 delay, but is there any reason missile integration has to be tied to block 4 or is it simply that is what LM want and we are going along with it? Cant believe we are putting in more orders for F35s while the jets are half useless. LM laughing all the way to the bank
Apparently, at least for Spear, the Block IV upgrades really are needed for it to work.
But with Meteor -which has been fully integrated onto multiple Gen4 aircraft- I can’t believe that’s the case. There should be no technical reason why Meteor can’t be integrated onto a pre-Block IV iteration.
Unless you want to do it all again when Blk IV materialises…..
I see what you did there…good one 😉
Release a long range missile from f35 . Ok how much software integration required??? The targeting info is that coming from the f35 probably not if it’s 100 ++miles away. Please correct me, I’m civilian. Secondly are we comfortable with LM having responsibility for software, the current president would probably like to control when and where missiles were released. Plus LM gets all data we generated in any conflict???? Please correct me I’m speculating.
Wonder where the AIM-260 is in terms of integration onto F-35…? I know the accusation of preference for US equipment is often levelled- that would be the real test!
Well seeing as aim-260 is replacing aim-120, if they hold up meteor integration then they can pressure UK government into procuring aim-260.. because by then the aim-260 will have some perceived upgrade over meteor so we get that instead of an upgraded “sovereign” capability.. its funny how the wheel keeps returning to the same point
jfc.. duh, aim-260 is developed by LM.. wow
Except AIM-260 also requires Block 4,
so that busts your conspiracy.
Its not block 4 thats the holdup.. AIM-260 is taking precedense over all other missiles which means when AIM-260 is integrated and replaces AIM-120 as the main bvr aam we may as well “replace Meteor with aim-260 as it is an already integrated replacement and will be cheaper”
Block 4 and TR3 are the hold-up.
Obviously once they’re complete they can’t integrate all weapons simultaneously, there’ll be a queue as I mentioned. And given the US military is the biggest purchaser of the F35, the weapons they want will be at the front of the queue.
PS: the world isn’t flat.
AIM-260 integration also requires Block 4…
It’s also only in LRIP at present- I was being half tongue-in-cheek to be honest.
But, I’d still say that’s a test: If Meteor, which has been slated for F-35 integration before AIM-260 was even a programme of record, still gets integrated after AIM-260- you know the conspiracy is real!
It’s going to come down to money, and LM is going to prioritise the US military because they buy the majority of F35s. No doubt LM can be persuaded by to prioritise non-US weapons too. If enough $$$ are thrown at them.
One question though, why doesn’t the US military want Meteor for them selves?
(Before anyone says because it’s not American made, neither are the NSM, JSM, Stryker, etc, etc.)
This makes the decision to look at buying F35As even more ridiculous.
We have to continue buying F35Bs as it’s the only option for the carriers. But we should make it clear we will NOT buy any other Lockheed Martin products until Meteor capability is delivered. HMG should also have its lawyers reviewing our contracts with LM, though I doubt there’s any chance of there being any penalty clauses…
(Ideally we should coordinate with all F35 customers who are awaiting native weapons integration.)
Jesus Sock!
Let’s all take a breath – bringing in the lawyers would only drag this out longer…
At this rate, you’ll be calling the RMPD to arrest LM senior management.
I still remember getting pulled over on the COB for speeding. I told the young corporal to “wind his neck in,” and he saw red. He barked, “Don’t confuse your rank with my authority!” Absolutely terrifying. I was too shaken to drive for the rest of the tour…
I take it you didn’t like the government setting the lawyers upon General Dynamics over the Ajax fiasco either… You shouldn’t let your ownership of shares in defence companies influence you.
Hello 0
“I’d like to report shots fired”
At this rate we’ll be deploying Meteor armed drones on the carriers long before we see F35s armed with them. 🤦🏻♂️
That might be a really good option, have drones that can carry half a dozen meteors, 4 drones per F-35, 2 flying then rotate as missile expended in fight F-35 has some AIM120 for self defence just sits lobbing Meteors from off axis at targets, they can see/shoot launch platforms but not the control.
Except UK drone development seems just as glacial…
It’s starting to seem that this is going to be the only option. That’s 2030s deadline will slip to 2035, then before we know it late 2030s.
Our F35s need longer range weapons now. Not in a decade or more. Stealth is no magic answer, it decreases the range an aircraft is detected, it doesn’t make it invisible or immune from being targeted.
People are kidding themselves if they think the current weapon load is adequate for use against a peer enemy.
…and new radar technologies are making the F-35 level of stealth less effective by the thirties. It’s all brave face as things stand, this project is not going to be looked back upon well. I don’t think it’s deliberate as such but you can be certain especially under Trump that priorities will be with American weaponry and considerations. So depends how you define it I guess.
It’s a poacher v gamekeeper thing.
F35s are going to get new stealthier coatings too.
If the UK had continued it’s Tier 1 payments we would have the access necessary to integrate the missile ourselves, as the Israelis do.
Rubbish.
We got Tier 1 status by paying a flat fee of $2billion for the R&D.
I’m suspicious that this is deliberate.
I’d bet money that Lockheed Martin could integrate Meteor and SPEAR onto the F-35 by Christmas this year if they really wanted to. I think this is very deliberate from either LM or the US Government, to slow down integration and force us to buy more American weapons.
I wish I could say that I was surprised…
I agree… it is deliberate. However we do have access to the F35 source code, so we could do it ourselves if we really wanted to. Bypass LM and do it ourselves.
You probably think the moon landings were faked too… 🤦🏻♂️
No, no I don’t.
I’m normally the one to mock conspiracy theorists, flat-Earthers, anti-vaxxers etc.
I’m just not sure why it will take them so long for Block IV – it could be done much faster if they really wanted to.
I read somewhere that the Block 1V problems were in part down to the heat dissipation needs of the more powerful processors at the core of the upgrade and the apparently limited from day 1 cooling capacity in the aircraft. Pretty sure that came a few years back from one of the US Government departments that analyze and usually criticize the F-35.
Cooling of the L3Harris’s processors has certainly been an issue in the past. But as processors use increasingly smaller dies, with 3nm being used by Apple, you should see both increased processing power and more efficiency (and thus less cooling requirements).
American weapons that are also stalled until Block 4…
• AGM-88G AARGM-ER,
• AGM-154 JSOW-C1
• AGM-158C LRASM,
• AGM-158XR combined JASSM-ER and LRASM,
• AIM-260 Joint Advanced Tactical Missile (JATM),
• AIM-9X Block II
• GBU-53 Stormbreaker-II glide bomb,
• GBU-54 Laser-JDAM
• Sidekick weapons rack allowing 6 air-to-air missiles to be carried internally
• B61 Mod 12 nuclear bomb
I believe there’s something like 70 weapons for all customers that are stalled until it’s finished.
The question I have is, what is the priority and schedule for weapons integration once TR3 and Block 4 are all delivered? Is it fixed or can countries pay extra to have their weapons moved up the queue? If so, UK penny-pinching may also be to blame? 🤷🏻♂️
See my other reply.. DoD says JATM before all others
Did the Clangers get there before or after Neil Armstrong?
I have a reply somewhere up there ^^.. its definitely deliberate when ya look at it.. LM’s AIM-260 is replacing AIM-120.. they’ll delay Meteor integration then US can pressure UK into replacing Meteor with AIM-260.. which could lead to us not iterating on Meteor.. its the same rickety wheel
Bollocks.
AIM-260 is also delayed for the same reason as Meteor…
Thats just an unfortunate incident for LM.. thinking about it, LM taking time to sort out TR3/Block 4 could well be delaying tactics while they build up stocks of AIM-260
Imagine if the US DoD authorised LM to continue with Meteor integration alongside AIM-260 as long as we bought a batch of F35..-A
🤣😂🤣😂
Sure, LM are going to risk future purchases of the F35, their flagship military warplane, just to build up stocks of a missile they can’t yet use on it…
Stop digging, you’re embarrassing yourself.
What a disaster of a programme for everyone except LM. Even the US government has been shafted by LM insisting the F35 software, paid for by USA and other customers is proprietary, thus preventing anyone else having effective access to deliver enhancements.
F35 in all forms is primarily a strike aircraft. F35B is limited to dropping Paveway 4. Sea Harrier carried Sea Eagle and WE177 nuclear bombs.
We have spent £ billions to get less capability than we had 20+ years ago.
The carrier plus F35 cost has all but destroyed the surface fleet to give UK a token CSG it can’t even escort on its own.
It’s time to stop any more funding for F35 in any variant. If we can develop a UCAV for strike operations, we only need F35B for CAP. 48 is enough.
Sue them for breach of contract. Talk to American Lockheed Martin in a language they understand.
We had the option to integrate our own weapons as the Israelis do.
This is the American disease when it comes to Defence and procurement from private sector companies. Fleece the public out of as much money as it can! I would go no where near F-35A and look to buy a further 12 – 14 F-35Bs for the carriers.
And people are saying we should buy F35A’s for its Nuclear capability…
I suspect it’s more than for its nuclear ability but for its ability at all over Northern Europe taking Ukranian lessons into account. I fear the B will be of little to no use in the present realities with its present load out and 30s may be too late to improve matters much.
This is pathetic how can it take this long to stick a missile on a plane – we have the source code for F35 we should just get on with it. If this was Ukraine it would be done in a month. It sounds like the US is just dragging its feet. Perhaps deliberately so they can sell their stuff. We should integrate this stuff in the UK and forget the US bottleneck.
What is the point of the F35B if it can’t carry our preferred weapons?
May as well equip our carriers with Fairy Swordfish.
Any news on gcap as I keep seeing headlines articles saying its stalled, Japan’s worried and is torn between gcap and the US. Any of this true or just headline journalism?
The only such comments I’m seeing are from suspect channels, about delays one very much from a Chinese source. Not seen any reputable reports as yet but time will tell. Considering Japanese fractious relations with Trump it seems very unlikely to me, but one should never underestimate Trump’s efforts to cajole, blackmail and coerce others but Japan is being very resistant to such efforts presently and for good reason. I note that F-47 has an in service date later than Tempest as it stands and any delays would only be exacerbated for Japan if it changed partners for its own project and IP exchange would clearly be far less anyway down the US route which is why they broke off cooperation before with them, so while I do think Japan and Italy are putting pressure on for greater exchange of IP from UK obviously reports of this nature may also be part of that game as well as mischievousness from opposing factions attempting to disrupt it for their own nefarious motives.
I note the Japanese Defence Minister last week has denied any claims of delayed in Service date or plans to buy more F-35s to fill any gap, let alone any prospect of quitting the program. There was a report that the Japanese felt the British and Italians were not as urgent as they wanted and 3 way discussions had created a delay (also denied) but I would be surprised if Bae weren’t going as fast as possible to keep the project on track and get the test aircraft into the air as close to planned and development engines have already been running at RR.
The articles where from very sus sources like the euroasaintimes, I didn’t open them as I don’t want google’s algorithm to start flooding my news page. As you’ve said I’ve not seen any reputable sources but I thought I would check on here.
I can’t see anyone wanting the F-35 apart from some middle east dictators.
A typical act of sabotage by the US: deliberately impeding the operation of superior kit (Meteor and Spear) in order to promote sales of its own inferior weapons. We’ve seen the long history of the US undermining the aerospace of other nations. Amongst the worst were the US lying about the price, performance and schedule of the Grumman F111 in order to get the UK to cancel the TSR2 and the bribery scheme(s) of Lockheed in getting European nations to adopt the widow maker F104.
The paranoia 🤦🏻♂️
Just because you are paranoid doesn’t meant they aint out to getcha.
True, but that’s confusing causation with correlation 😉
Always paranoia until whats happened before happens again and then everyone acts shocked 🤷
Clearly you never studied scientific methodology. Reoccurance is not proof.
I blow on my hand, before I throw a 6 on a dice. Several throws later, I repeat the blow and throw another 6. You honestly think blowing on my hand ‘for luck’ influences the result of the dice throw??? 🤦🏻♂️
Im talking about history repeating (proven and recorded), you are talking about superstition.
Humans have a survival mechanism that allows them to recognise patterns.. those that are creating patterns tend to distract and decry said pattern recognition as paranoia.
Pattern recognition simply recognises repetition (sometimes). It doesn’t explain or understand what the meaning is (if any) of that repetition (if the repetition is correct). Which is why current LLM AI models produce such howlers such at using glue on pizzas. They misrecognise a pattern and produce a conclusion based on it.
Congratulations, you’ve proven yourself to be no more intelligent than current AI models 😂
LM’s revenues are roughly on par with the UK’s defence budget, highlighting the sheer scale of the company. It also suggests that threats or pressure from the UK may carry less weight than some (most in here) assume. Europe as a whole accounts for less than 10% of LM’s revenues.
“Haters gonna hate”
My initial response to that would be ‘OK, we’ll suspend all orders until able to use British weapons with an option to reduce our final order to reflect the shortened time they will be in service’. There is no excuse for this.
Is it possible to bring the 3 ‘orange wired ‘ aircraft back to the UK and carry out Meteor/Spear 3 integration here?
Am I right on thinking this is deliberately done by a US company so these weapons are not options for other buyers, compelling a US alternative?
Is is that just my suspicious nature?
See my reply elsewhere ^^
No I’m 100% with you on that. LM and other US defence contractors have had a serious knock to their stock prices while Rheinnmetall etc all have shot up in the last 6 months, and then suspiciously LM can’t integrate European weapons?
Its ok, LM stock prices will go up when they sell everyone a batch of AIM-260 as an interim measure while they slowly integrate the rest of the weapons that are waiting.. hopefully some of those will abandon theyr integrations in favour of AIM-260
I imagine the Tempest v F47 scenario could make the US a bit bitchy too.
Want Sidewinders on a Nimrod? We’ll do that in a few weeks. Want Meteor on an actual fighter aircraft? A decade.
Time for emals on the carriers and a naval Typhoon or upgraded Anglo Rafale anyone?
The USA is never going to integrate the Meteor on the F35B, they will tell customers of the B to buy the AIM260 which is being developed and integrated with all F35 variants. This is one of the many reasons I believe the B variant is going to become a bespoke orphan model, especially with Lockheed now working on a revised 5.5 gen derivative of the F35 which I think will focus on the A and C variant leaving the B as is and available to the few allied nation that have acquired them for the STOVL carriers like the UK, Italy and Japan.
If my views are correct, then my suggestion is the UK curtail their fleet size of the F35B at 60 airframes (with replenishment orders as and when need through to the 2050s), and convert one of the carriers into a CATOBAR carrier.
The F35B is stuck with USA kit, though I think the A and C variants are going to be a little more non-USA kit friendly, but not by much. All operators of the F35 are going to be help “captive” by Lockheed for the entirety of the F35 program, and that suits the USA MIC and USA political leaders in their rearguard action of trying preserve USA global hegemony.
I would also suggest the RAF not buy the A variant and rather spend their money on Typhoons adapted to carry the B61 nuclear weapon, and if the USA won’t agree with this then the UK should purchase the French ASMPA standoff missile and arm it with UK a warhead.
Just because you are paranoid doesn’t meant they aint out to getcha.
Utterly indefensable. Such betrayal of an urgent capability we need asap. You’d almost think HMG/LM/USA want us to be ill prepared for when Russia/China kick off.
It’s an interesting thought. Would the UK be worse off with China dictating world politics? The USA has already conquered our culture. Now our politics are becoming divisive and toxic like theirs, and our society which was previously tolerant is now utterly bogged down and poisoned by weird fringe groups, again just like America. Maybe our powers that be want a change of ownership?
We have a lot of problems today, but going for CCP repression & control would be far worse.
Absolute piss take. I was at MBDA over 20 years ago, and the integration of Meteor with clipped wings was being looked at back then.
On the one hand, many sources are warning we will likely be at war by 2027. On the other hand, it appears we won’t be ready for war until 2030 to 2035. There seems to be something wrong with the maths here.
It’s legitimate for LM to do this. Unfortunately for them it’s also legitimate for the UK and other European countries to learn from this expereince and never engage with them on any other military project again. I would suggest for their sake try harder and take a short term financial hit over a long term and far more expensive one.
There’s a lot of tin foil hat comspiracy theory nonsnse on this topic. The Norwegians have got NSM/JSM on F-35 but then they fronted up the money to do it. The Israelis fronted up the money to integrate all sorts on their F-35 and Lo! it happened. It isn’t rocket science. We even have clueless clowns claiming this is a reason to build our own jets (clue 15% of EVERY F-35 is ours anyway).