A proposal to create a dedicated Sikh regiment within the British Army has resurfaced in the House of Lords, with Defence Minister Lord Coaker signalling openness to further discussions on the matter.
Raising the issue on Monday, Labour peer Lord Sahota asked whether any progress had been made on long-standing calls for such a regiment, citing the loyalty and contributions of Sikh soldiers in both world wars.
“Given the loyalty of Sikh soldiers in both world wars, there has been talk of having a Sikh regiment in the British Army for a number of years,” he said. “Governments of both parties have talked about it. Is there any progress on that?”
Lord Coaker responded that he was willing to explore the idea further. “I am quite happy to meet him to see what more we can do to recognise the contribution of soldiers such as Sikhs, and those of many other faiths as well,” he said.
He noted the upcoming VJ Day commemorations on 15 August, suggesting it as an appropriate moment to reflect on global wartime sacrifices. “Not least among that were the Sikhs of the world, who played a valiant part,” he added.
While no specific commitment was made regarding the formation of a regiment, the exchange signals renewed interest in formally recognising the historic role of Sikh soldiers in the British Armed Forces.
Background
Sikhs have served in the British Army since the mid-19th century, beginning with their incorporation into the British Indian Army following the annexation of the Sikh Empire in 1849. Recognised for their martial tradition and military discipline, Sikhs were recruited in large numbers, particularly after the Indian Rebellion of 1857, when the British shifted recruitment toward communities deemed loyal to the Crown.
The Punjab region, home to most Sikhs, became a major recruiting ground. By the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Sikhs were overrepresented in the Indian Army relative to their population, forming a key component of regiments such as the Sikh Regiment and the Punjab Regiment.
During the First World War, over 100,000 Sikhs served in various theatres including France, East Africa, Mesopotamia, and Gallipoli. They fought in major engagements such as the Battle of Neuve Chapelle and the Somme, earning numerous gallantry awards, including Victoria Crosses. Sikh soldiers made up roughly 20% of the Indian contingent in the war, despite comprising less than 2% of the population of British India. Their service continued in the Second World War, where more than 300,000 Sikhs took part in campaigns in North Africa, Italy, and Southeast Asia. Again, their contributions were disproportionately high, both in combat roles and in logistical support.
Following Indian independence and the partition of 1947, Sikh recruitment into the British military declined sharply, as the majority of Sikh soldiers became part of the Indian Army. Nonetheless, individual Sikhs continued to serve in the British Armed Forces, and in recent decades, the UK has taken steps to commemorate their historical contribution.
Does anyone know how many Sikhs we have now in the Army?
265 according to Google, I’d assume the vast majority, if not all, are British or are seeking to become British.
Empire is over, before we raise all these regiments of foreign nationals and increase the Gurkhas to a couple of divisions and replace the RFA with Kiwis and the RAF Regiment with Canadian hillbillies, can we not do the hard graft and sort British recruitment out?
I know it’s not proper to say these days, but foreign nationals are not usually as loyal as the local population (in 1947 the majority of Sikhs understandably chose India over the UK), nor would some fight for the same ideals. There are exceptions of course like choosing service as a path to citizenship, but those individuals want to be a part of the UK and its military, not a separate, expendable section of it, one often with a poorer employment deal.
Also, some foreign nationals carry with them very backward-thinking opinions, traditions and social norms that are not acceptable in the UK (and haven’t been for a long time). Unless we want some good old-fashioned segregation in place of cohesion “keep X away from the women”, “keep Y away from the homosexuals”, “keep everyone away from the Welsh” then maybe it’s not a path best traveled.
If the world was all unicorns and rainbows without a hint of “tribalism” there’d be no issue but then we wouldn’t need a military anyway.
I agree, even the Gurkhas (as great as they are) open up far too many legal questions, adding in another foreign mercenary detachment this one segregated on religious lines sounds like a bad idea. If it’s to be used for British Sikhs that’s even worse because it’s basically promoting religious segregation.
The empire is gone and the army is tiny and with a bit of effort we can easily fill it with British recruits.
It’s not so much religious segregation as a modern equivalent of the pals battalions, it could be a great way to encourage recruitment. It will need to be managed correctly, and it needs to be completely optional to join, but it could work well.
Have mixed feelings about this as you say the ‘Friends Battalions’ offers a positive side while the appalling segregation in wartime US forces a serious negative nor the sniff of colonialism about it, the Gurkhas have a unique position and history to the reasoning and their role, not sure it sure be reproduced however it will inevitably be problematical that in conflict will only be focused upon. Goes from basics about whether they are getting equal treatment in peacetime to other regiments, properly armed and supported by comparison to whether they are effectively being used as cannon fodder in war, a bit like bare stats are French used to suggest Scottish and Welsh regiments have been. True or otherwise the perception of such will potentially lead to debilitating effects on decision making, effectiveness and interoperability both political and military. And from a practical point of view how many British Sikhs are there to recruit from? Which means surely we will recruit many perhaps most from India which then becomes a question of what’s the recruits’ true motivation. Whatever the history of Sikh heroism it will mean nothing if the regiment is full of soldiers here for anything but actually being involved in serious conflict and indeed potentially devalue that legacy. Then we have the whole question of why Sikhs are being given a privilege that other ‘equally worthy’ groups could argue for. Perhaps smaller units perhaps of a specialist nature, where you may get the best combination of a unity of purpose and effectiveness but within the unsegregated whole might avoid the bigger issues above. But this is not an issue that should be treated lightly or potential long lasting draw backs ignored for the sake of a pr opportunity in the name of imaginary minority support or just to increase numbers for the sake of it.
Agreed if Sikhs love the UK so much why don’t they join the british army through the commonwealth recruitment or being British Citizens . As fantastic and proud a tradition of Sikh soldiers is, the uk desperately needs to recruit British Citizens loyal to Crown and Parliament
The vast majority of Sikhs in U.K are British Citizens and many are 3rd or 4th Generation, a lot came here in the 1970’s when Idi Amin kicked them out of Uganda. Needless to say they were pretty grateful and got on with rebuilding their lives, Sikhs differ from many other minorities they integrate and actively participate in the communities they live in.
Sikhs don’t cluster together in self made Ghettos and just get on with education, careers and businesses, they also have a long tradition of charitable works in the wider society.
In India they are informally known as the Inteligencia of India as Sikhs occupy most of she senior positions in the Indian Armed forces, civil service, large companies etc they tend to be well educated, work hard and are excellent soldiers.
Maybe it’s something worth thinking about, after all can you think of any other minority who are actually asking for this to happen. Most of the old Cap badges were for Regiments that had a local identity and wanting to serve together and the Sikh Gent asking is a member of the House of Lords. Also as about loyalty to the crown and trust the present Chairman of the Parliamentary Select Committee for Defence is also a Sikh, their job is to hold Ministers and MOD to account.
Well I was a supporter of the UK but seeing as I am now a hillbillie you can go fuck yourself asshole! My family has served in the RAF and the Britsih army but I can see that was a waste of time.
The opinion of one individual is no justification for your rude generalisation about the rest of us Zephyr. REgards from Durban
To be fair his comment seemed aimed at that one individual, (‘go fuck yourself asshole’) and probably expressed somewhat understandably in response in momentary anger upon reading it, of the lazy comments of Ged which were unnecessary and sadly deflected from what were otherwise some otherwise valuable points. I suspect some on here would understandably respond in not dissimilar manner had such derisory insulting descriptions of Brits been made on here by a non Brit. Especially in a scenario equivalent to that of Canada where it is suffering endless such language against it from its arrogant southern neighbour and where its very existence is being questioned and its economy being attacked in an attempt to cause discontent break unity and ultimately force it to comply. So, let’s give them a little slack shall we and apply criticism to where it’s truly warranted, ie a nasty jibe not the momentary anger it deliberately in my view intended to draw. Or is that too reasonable a request?
If you are convinced it was a waste of time by one Internet comment, then I guess you weren’t really on side anyway and just looking for an excuse.
Or maybe you should be a little more understanding of a momentary angry response to a disgraceful, disagreeable insult the perpetrator of which seems to have escaped any criticism for it. Easy when it’s not aimed at us of I guess.
Ignore ignorance old chap… Some people don’t use the few cells they have
I am sure it was a joke
I thought the days of regarding the “The Colonials” as subserviant inferiors were long gone but obviously the likes of GED wish to perpertuate the stereotype. Well I hope you don’t need any help, resources or manpower from the hillbillies GED. What a condescending dickhead (that’s hillbillie for prick BTW).
Ignore the halfwit. Commonwealth nationals are not considered ‘foreign’ for these purposes and never have been, which is why they are eligible for service in the first place.
“Ignore the halfwit”
Us “halfwit’s” are usually ignored on here, I can vouch for that.
😁
“If the face doesn’t fit”.
Reply aimed at Halfwit, your often tongue-in-cheek or generally light-hearted comments are appreciated by me!
Just to clarify are you Canadian? It’s quite confusing to understand why part of his comments you are upset over?
Maybe have a rest then you could reread the tongue-in- cheek swipe at the RAF Regiments expense in an otherwise serious post against segregation within the British Army. Then reflect on how embarrassing your responses have been.
Or you can stew in whatever ails you so that would cause you to take the mere mention of a small subset of a population as an attack on that entire population. Perhaps its the same thing that has caused you turn on an entire population based on a misunderstood post by a random person on the Internet?
I genuinely wish you good luck and Godspeed on whichever path you choose to take.
I would suggest ‘humour’ of that type is best avoided… name calling even if meant in jest can be easily misinterpreted… suggest an edit to your post and or an apology… I had an uncle, sadly never met him, as he was KIA over Germany in 1944 along with his Canadian aircrew. As you know Canada is a great friend and ally especially in these uncertain times.. we should be uniting not sowing seeds if division. Best wishes to all and especially our friends across the Commonwealth
Why did you feel the need to have a swipe at the RAF Regiment ? It’s a cheap shot . This forum is for those interested in all the units of HM Armed Forces.
My sincere apologies to all, including GED, for an inappropriate response using foul language. Really not warranted, sorry about that! I would seem to have been short of humour, more than a bit thin-skinned and…well a bit of an idiot yesterday.
Well I for one understand your anger, I agree it was ignorant in the extreme and totally pointless in the otherwise greater points he was making too, which suggests as you say there was a particular lazy underlying ignorant stereotyping going on that seems to completely ignore the amazing support over the Centuries Canadians (as others) have provided Britain. But hey I’m sure the old ‘your just woke’ defence will be made at some point or it’s all just ‘banter’. Worse thing is it’s just interrupted an interesting debate, that’s the most annoying aspect.
Hi Spy! Replying to your reply to me, which for some reason I cannot reply below as there is no ‘Reply ” there. I am Mr. Reasonable and I completely understand what you say, but if an angry individual basically writes all of my Kith and Kin for the sins of one person then it is understandable if sometimes, turning the other cheek is not always possible. I am reminded of the old cartoon of two workers on the pavement-Harry and Fred are doing a repair and Fred drops some hot lead on Harry’s foot just as a little old lady is passing. Harry says “Really Fred, you must be more careful in future! ” 🙂
Love and Light from Durban
Your opinions make me Sikh Ged 🙂
Great idea.
Also given the current recruitment issues, has anyone asked the question – can Gurkas sail? Might be an idea to get some for the navy.
NO they are in general not good sailors. Yes some have gone to sea in the past but not as part of the RN, they were service providers! I for one am extremely proud of them and their service to the Crown.
Part of me goes, well, they have the brigade of Gurkhas, but another part of me feels like we’re drifting into segregation territory.
I know there’s more context behind it.
I remember watching TV around 6 years back listening with a lot of interest to a Sikh community leader, he said there would be no problem in raising a regiment of Sikh soldiers within the British Army.. I thought at the time what a great idea. I noticed a Sikh soldier during the recent Trooping the colour, made me think about what the Community leader had said those years back. Hope they look into the idea seriously.
The problem with specific X regiments is that it generates a need to safeguard those pids and places limits on career streams. The RGR already has this problem where Gurkhas can not post outside of Gurkha pids and non Gurkha’s can’t post into their pids, which has corresponding impacts on career progression for Gurkhas often (if there are no Pids available in RGR for example it’s much harder for a Gurkha to transfer to the Rifles than it would be for someone to post into a Fusilier Pid from PWRR), but can also create dramas for other units (A Gurkha signals Squadron can’t take Royal Signals personnel into it’s orbat, even if it’s in a Royal Signals regiment for example, because those pids have to be Gurkha’s). Plus what Coll said about segregation.
Yes if we aren’t careful the Human Resources Dept could become bigger than the fighting forces.
I’m open to that too. Lord knows how many times over they’ve proved themselves
Can we just NOT form a Muslim regiment !
You know it’s coming. And yes, I’m shaking my head.
Dern makes valid points and I think you might need to go back to old style RAEC and get language proficiency into the Gurkhas by perhaps using some of that FCDO cash to deliver English lessons into all Nepal schools, thereby giving them fluency and the ability to move around the plot.
Heavens, if out of 36 former senior Slovak officers, I got 30, reluctantly, through the STANAG exam, starting off with children has to be a winner.
Just pointing out that it’s not an English fluency thing that prevents Gurkhas from moving around. They already have to pass an English Language assesment before joining. It’s a legal and international agreement issue around their citizenship and the guaranteeing of their pids for Nepali citizens.
Thank you Dern.
Np!
“ Can we just NOT form a Muslim regiment !”
I can’t see how that statement isn’t racist.
Because Islam is a religion.
I guess because a religion isn’t a race would be why it’s not ?
That’s a common misconception, racism is about ethnic groups not “race” per say, and one of the things that can characterize an ethnic group is religion.
seems outdated. India is no longer a colony.
instead just create a British Foreign Legion, which can have Sikhs and others. it’s also a good and legal pathway for citizenship
hang on, wont many of the sikh soldiers be UK born and bred?
no idea, but why does it matter? just limiting to Sikhs seems a bit racist and a niche selection. why not include people from Hong Kong, or wherever … seems like a bigger pool to recruit from while allowing stricter selection criteria than just to fill some arbitrary profile numbers.
FYI there have been plenty of french citizens who have joined the French Foreign Legion. it was a way to get a new start for some who wanted to clear their criminal record (not for serious crimes) or for others the opportunity to join a prestigious unit who wanted to see action in deployments (since Foreign Legion is deployed more often than other regular army units)
That’s what I was thinking, comments on here as though these would be foreigners looking for citizenship. This is for British Sikhs and this would not be like the Gurkhas, these are Brits.
i seriously doubt you would fill a regiment with UK born Sikhs
there are just over 500k Sikhs in the UK, of which only 300k are UK born (57%)
the UK aged 18 to 30 population is 20% of UK population (ie 12 milliom / 68 million)
the UK armed forces are about 140k personnel, or 0.02% of the population and the UK is having recruitment problems
apply these figures to Sikh UK born population
-> 60k UK born Sikhs aged 18 to 30 (ie 300k x 20%)
-> then apply 0.2% armed forces as part of overall UK population and you get 120 UK born Sikh recruits (ie 60k x 0.2%)
seem highly unrealistic that UK born Sikhs would be enough to form a regiment, unless there is conscription
my 2 cents
oops got my maths wrong ie 300k UK born Sikhs × 0.2% = 600 recruits
double oops 0.2% is for all UK armed forces incl RN and RAF. but Army is just half that total number.
so in fact 600 needs to be divided by 2 = 300, since Sikh regiment would be an infantry unitand not have an RAF or RN role.
If they are UK citizens there literally is no point raising a “Sikh” regiment. They can already apply through the normal channels just as easily as any other UK citizen, and zero point creating a specific Sikh regiment.
Admin wise, it would be a nightmare. Contrary to popular belief, Regiments aren’t insular, and there is considerable movement of personnel between them. Suddenly you have a single Battalion regiment that can’t post people out, and can only recruit from a relatively small pool of UK recruits? Or are postings open to other people from whatever Division the Sikh Regiment ends up in, in which case why bother having it be a Sikh Regiment?
I’m was 50/50 on the idea but reading your points I agree it would end up being unsustainable. If we were at war and the army was 5 times bigger, then it might work.
The army is already fully open to British Citizens. What’s the advantage of segregating based on ethnic and/or religious grounds? Just numbers? We could probably get a few more Glaswegians signed up if we promised them Catholic and Protestant only units, would it be a good idea? Would they be the types you’d want? What about whites’ only units, or take even further with a US term WASPs? There’s a segment that would be all over those, definitely not a good idea.
Nothing in the article suggests it’s for British Sikhs only. Maybe it was touted in the past (exactly where the idea of segregated units should stay) as British Sikhs only?
Also this. Even the existing regiments that have regional or ethnicity based names, like the Royal Irish, Royal Welsh, RRoS, and various Guards, are not in fact limited to those groups in their recruitment. The R. Irish is open to anyone to join, they just happen to concentrate their recruitment efforts on Northern Ireland and the ROI. Hell the RRoS is sometimes jokingly referred to as the Royal Fijian Regiment, due to the number of Commonwealth Recruits that serve in it.
Yup – twas ever thus. The joke was that it was 4 SCOTS – the rest are Fijian.
The real requirement for Scots Regt’s is good calf muscles anyway, chicken legs look terrible under a Kilt!
just a question.
who will they be loyal to, if ever the need arose ,[Britain.][India ]
a fair question.
depends whether they are british sikhs or indian sikhs
I would trust a Brit Sikh anytime over the semi Iranians we’ve had in the army who were found to be spying, or any of the home grown morons who sabotage RAF aircraft.
If it came right down to a choice I would suspect India.
They’ve got them on RAF fast jet squadrons already. They specialise on maintaining the gas turban engines.
Drum roll please🤣🤣😂
I had to read that twice, D’oh!. It made it even funnier 🙂
Too few to form a Regiment I’d think.
And why the segregation? If they’re British, they can join any Regiment.
We have had Gurkhas in the SAS and the SBS, no need for a separate unit.
The Gurkhas are a different situation.
I think Sikh people like any other UK citizen should be able to join any part of the armed forces, but if a battalion of Sikh soldiers was formed – I really don’t see a problem with that. But it would be up to that particular individual, so nobody would be forced, it’s a choice decision.
Absolutely. I am totally against any segregation in the British Army.
Seems like every option should be explored.
I would welcome a Sikh/Punjab regiment, based on what I know of the history, but what’s more important is what the Sikh population in the UK feels about it. Do we know if there is a desire for it within the Sikh community? I wouldn’t want Sikhs to feel segregated in any way, although I would believe the nepalese community in he UK are rightly proud of their unique regimental status with the Gurkas.
Colin’s islamiphobia clearly shows he is ignorant of the muslim contribution to the world wars.
Well said..
Just to clarify: The Nepali community in the UK is proud of the Gurkhas for sure, but if they join the army they join regular British units. Gurkha’s recruit only directly from Nepal.
I think Christan probably knows that mate.
Im sure if they do they can say it for themselves.
😁🌞
“Colin’s islamiphobia clearly shows he is ignorant of the muslim contribution to the world wars.”…I assume you didn’t mean that to sound as ironic as it did- Which makes it quiet funny.
The army size needs to be much larger so if it means more troops make it happen , its criminal
that are MPs are doing nothing about it.
Not that easy Dave, the infrastructure isn’t there to dramatically expand the Army, we have progressively sold off barracks etc, etc over the last 30 years as ‘ obviously ‘ tbe cd was was over and Russia was no longer a threat🤣🤣😂.
That worked out well..
We could probably expand the regular Army back to around 100,000 without too much trouble, but more than that and we would be building new infrastructure at enormous cost.
A sensible number is probably 100,000 ish regulars with an effective and deployable 40,000 AR, we will see where we are in a few years time…
That again would entail a serious infrastructure and equipped investment across all areas.
The inital issue is trying to stop the number continuing to drop from its pitifully low authorised establishment.
We can only hope the signs that things are turning around continue.
True but ye 100,000 troops was the number I was thinking of but the clock is ticking.
Any regiments along sectarian, ethnic/religious lines make me really uneasy.
Perhaps better to say all regiments are for anyone that wants to serve and encourage them to foster camaraderie with others of different backgrounds.
Totally this. It’s the thin end of the wedge, a slippery slope and Pandora’s box rolled into one, lots of issues would be created for little gain.
Can target Sikh recruitment by other means.
The most loyal of people are the British Sikhs..a British Army Brigade of Sikhs is an idea that had been floated before, but alas the concept of a Sikh Regiment was thwarted by the DEI brigade. What an asset a Brigade of Sikhs would be to our fighting ability.
I am very much in favour of raising a Sikh ‘regiment’. The Sikh community has been a great servant of Britain for 150+ years and they are a renowned martial class. Those living in the UK are the proud legacy of that tradition, with many of the original Sikh immigrants ex-service personnel.
I would arrange that ‘regiment’ differently. The infantry is set at 25% of army strength. So form a Sikh training battalion of 500 recruits, of which 100+ form a Sikh infantry company and the rest jo8n the other 10 army corps as signalmen, drivers, gunners, etc.
Attach the infantry company to one of the line regiments, as we will need to increase the number of line battalions in line with the increase to 3.5% of GDP. So 2 Lancs, 2 Mercian or whichever future unit gets a formed and valuable Sikh company, that will be an asset rather than a problem.
We have Scots, Welsh, Irish and Ghurka battalions, don’t see a
problem with a Sikh company joining the parade of loyal Brit units.
Would be equally happy to see a similar British Bengal Rifles unit – Muslims Nigel, but loyal Brit ones! – formed, or a British Jat one, great soldiers and would encourage these minority communities in the UK to play their part in national defence, which outmoded racist views have long hindered.
This structure would cause SO many issues.
The idea that giving an infantry Battalion a single Sikh company would be an asset, not a problem, is just not true (believe me I see this first hand). Everything I said above about Battalions? Now multiply it.
Imagine your Battalion has the following:
Z (HQ) Coy
A Coy
B Coy
S (Sikh) Coy
X (Support Coy)
A Coy is going to deploy to Cabrit as part of the Battlegroup, and is short a Platoon Sgt. Cpl Singh in S Coy has just completed SCBC and is due to promote but there are no spaces for a Platoon Sgt in S coy. But he can’t now not post into A Coy because he’s a Sikh, so the Pid goes unfilled, the operational effectiveness of the unit is decreased and Cpl Singh doesn’t get a promotion. Meanwhile LCpl Kapoor has shown an aptitude for Recce, he asks his chain of command to go on Recce commanders so that he can go down that pipeline. Sorry LCpl Kapoor, but Recce Platoon is part of X (Support) Coy, and therefore a standard British Army pid, not a Sikh Pid. That’s the day to day reality of what you are suggesting.
Scots, Welsh, Irish are a different kettle of fish, as noted above, as membership to those units is not actually based on any ethnic requirements. There is nothing stopping an Englishman joining the Royal Regiment of Scotland (in fact because SCOTS, R. Welsh and R. Irish all sit under the Union Divison (along with the R. Yorks) there is a considerable amount of moving back and forth between those Battalions once you get beyond Sgt). If you are English and walk into a recruiting office and say “I want to join the Royal Welsh” nothing is stopping you.
Seems reasonable to me. Just as we have Ghurkas, why not another ethnic group that served so well during the days of the Empire? If a Sikh Regiment can fit in, great. Same with some other ethnic groups – the British army was multinational, and if doing this helps to make some of our ethnic minorities feel more comfortable joining the army it would not only help with recruitment but help those ethnic groups feel that their cultures and traditions had a place in British society.
A Sikh Regiment isn’t going to happen and for good reason.
The Army has spent years building a culture of inclusion, diversity, and integration. So Creating a regiment based on religion would directly undermine these core values. You’d also have legal issues, particularly around equality, discrimination, and military policy.
A religiously exclusive unit would also set a precedent, leading to calls for similar units such as a Muslim regiment or a Hindu regiment further complicating the Army’s structure and fostering greater segregation.
The Gurkhas — obviously not a religiously based unit, remain in the British Army due to the Tripartite Agreement signed in 1947, a product of very different times. This would also be a non-starter today but fortunately for us, they continue to serve.
This is nonsense. You set yourselves up for having a Muslim regiment or even a Lesbian regiment.
Why are commentators on this matter of a Sikh regiment worried about nationality legal issues?
According to the UK 2021 census there were roughly 530,000 UK Sikh citizens of whom roughly 18% were males aged between 18-30. That roughly is just under 100,000 eligible UK citizens of Sikh ethnicity. Why can’t the British army recruit at the minimum 500 or so to form a battalion, do the same with other communities such as the West Africa and East African communities. Similarly the Arab communities, the Bengalis, southern African Communities, the West Indian communities etc. The army can then mix these ethnic battalions into regiments. I mean the army currently has ethnic focused formations in the form of Irish, Scottish and Welsh regiments and I don’t see issues being raised about that long standing practice.
I have written a number of times on this matter of looking to the demographics in the UK that has a large pool of young people suitable for military service, and that currently is the immigrant population from the “coloured” Commonwealth. Start the recruitment exercise with the immigrant population before looking to recruiting overseas from the Commonwealth nations.
Maybe try actually reading the comments if you’re going to complain about them?
The only unit composed along Ethnic lines in the British Army are the Gurkhas, so the comparison is being drawn to them and the policies that apply to them. As I have stated several times in other comments: The R. Irish, R. Welsh and R. Regt of Scotland are not ethnic units, and are open to anyone from anywhere in the UK or Commonwealth.
Your opinions make me Sikh Ged 🙂
I am all for honouring service from different demographics, faiths and communities.
I have a couple of problems here:
1. If we get everyone from a particular demographic into one regiment and something bad happens in battle, there is a risk that the entire group are wiped out.
I seem to remember reading that in WW1 some regiments were made up of soldiers from just one town or village. When they were lost the devastation on the wider community who would have lost a whole generation was devastating.
2. Having diversity across the regiments means that we have regiments with different ways of thinking, skills and aptitudes in them. By focussing a group into a single demographic it means the rest are less diverse.
I know that diversity is a trigger-word these days, but a good example of where lack of diversity failed was the CIA before 9/11. There has been a lot written about how a largely white, Protestant workforce were unable to see the threats until it was too late.
Why’s the regular army not good enough for them? Or is this just a backdoor to get more Indians into the country?
My sincere apologies to all, including GED, for an inappropriate response using foul language. Really not warranted, sorry about that! I would seem to have been short of humour and a bit thin-skinned yesterday.
‘The “yes, but” is a good case study in how people and organizations don’t always resist change (they agree that a future desired state may be better); they resist transitions (come up with a reason not to move to the desired state).’
The Regimental system has been a significant part of the Army’s success throughout its long history. It gives individual units a strong sense of identity that differentiates them. It creates family ties that see successive generations serve within the same units. Regimental values instil a sense of self-belief and teamwork that enables a unit to perform better in combat.
‘Sikhs are generally considered an ethnoreligious group, meaning they are both a religious and ethnic community. This is because Sikhism, the religion, originated within a specific cultural and geographical context (the Punjab region) and is intertwined with Punjabi culture and identity. Many Sikhs, particularly those in India, identify with both the religion of Sikhism and the ethnic group of Punjabi people.’
That suggests that a Sikh Regiment could be a very successful infantry fighting formation and fighting the King’s enemies is the fundamental purpose of the British Army.
Irish regiments / recruits do well, no?
Very well.
There are no ethnically Irish Regiments in the British Army.
Well, after checking chatgpt I have to say that I am rather confused as to its definitions of an ethnic group and a people. I would day say the Irish are a people with of mixed ethnicities ( genetic and geographical provenances). But the received wisdom it seems is that a ,’people’ is ant convenient group of ethnic group. More study required. So that would mean that the Welsh and Scots are ethnicities within the British people
My own view is that the Welsh and Scots are peoples within the United Kingdom, the nation state which is the civil authority. I think the anthropologist need to recognise the nation state as something different to a people (culturally based) and ethnic group( subset of a people sharing limited gene pool). Anyway, enough science…
An ethnic group is baisically any group that has a distinct culture and identity. Welsh, Scots and Irish are ethinc groups within the British Isles, but that’s not what I was getting at.
(Sorry if this is a bit terse but I’ve explained this like three times on this thread):
British Regiments are Regional, not Ethnic (minus RGR).
The Royal Welsh recruits from Wales, but it is not an ethnically Welsh formation. If you are English and want to serve in the Royal Welsh nothing will stop you. If you are Fijian and want to serve in the Royal Regiment of Scotland there is absolutely nothing stopping you. If you are Irish and want to serve in PWRR instead of the R. Irish, you can. You just walk into the recruitment centre and say “I really want to be in PWRR.”
If you walk into a recruitment office in the Midlands and say “I want to join the Infantry” you’ll probably end up in the Mercians even though you might be from Surrey. Same thing if you walk into a recruitment centre in Ulster, even if you’re from England, if you just say “I want to be in the infantry” you’ll probably end up in the R. Irish.
Thx. Got it! Place based.
Definitely worth considering. Sikh and ye shall find.
Very good. A Sikh Regiment would no different to a County Regiment. ‘Baluch’ battalions with soldiers recruited from Baluchistan served in the Dhofar war with distinction, only the occasional mutiny…..
What the Minister actually said:
‘I am quite happy to meet him to see what more we can do to recognise the contribution of soldiers such as Sikhs, and those of many other faiths as well.’
Sikhism is an ethnoreligious grouping.
Many in Yorkshire would see that county as an ethnoreligious grouping, Cornwall similarly.
The British Army already has suitably named and storied Regiments within its Regimental system. The legendary Hindoostan Regiment, 76th Regiment of Foot, now part of 1st Battalion, The Royal Yorkshire Regiment, could, one might think, be reconstituted as a Battalion in its own right as a focal point for the recruitment of particular ethnoreligious groupings.