In response to a written question from Ben Obese-Jecty (Conservative – Huntingdon) regarding the procurement of the Aermacchi M-345 fast jet trainer, the Ministry of Defence (MOD) has confirmed that no formal market engagement has taken place concerning the aircraft.
Maria Eagle, Minister of State for Defence, stated that the Royal Air Force (RAF) continuously assesses potential options to maintain its competitive advantage in flying training systems but noted that the M-345 is merely one of several available market options.
“The Royal Air Force continuously researches and assesses options for the sustainment, enhancement and development of hardware and systems to maintain competitive advantage within the flying training system,” she said. “The Aermacchi M-345 fast jet trainer is one of several market options available and no formal market engagement has been conducted.”
Aermacchi M-345
The Aermacchi M-345, manufactured by Leonardo, is a twin-seat advanced jet trainer designed for basic and advanced pilot training. It is marketed as a cost-effective replacement for older jet trainers, such as the Hawk T1 and T-38 Talon, offering lower operating costs while maintaining high-performance capabilities.
Key Features:
- Engine: Williams FJ44-4M turbofan
- Maximum Speed: 795 km/h (494 mph)
- Service Ceiling: 40,000 ft
- Range: 1,410 km (876 miles)
- G-Limit: +7/-3.5g
- Avionics: Glass cockpit with Hands-On Throttle And Stick (HOTAS) controls
The M-345 is positioned as an alternative to the BAE Systems Hawk family, particularly for air forces looking for a modern but economical training solution.
RAF Training Fleet and Future Procurement Considerations
Currently, RAF fast-jet training is conducted using the BAE Systems Hawk T2, which is operated by No. 4 Flying Training School at RAF Valley. The Hawk T1 was recently retired from service as a trainer, with the RAF exploring potential replacements or supplementary aircraft to enhance pilot training capabilities.
The RAF’s training system is undergoing review, with discussions on modernisation and future fleet requirements continuing. The M-345 could remain an option, but as of now, the MOD has not taken any concrete steps towards acquisition.
Did BAE ever resolve the Hawk T2 Adour engine issue? If MoD is looking abroad I guess Hawk is dead
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No. And USN T-45 Goshawk fleet just got grounded due to an accident with RR engine.
Nothing more on the Aeralis either? Wasn’t there a possibility of Anglo-French/Spanish interest in that?
What about the Boeing-SAAB RedHawk?
Not been a totally smooth project from memory.
From what understand, the red hawk has its own issues.
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Aeralis seems to have gone very quiet. Year in, year out, it doesn’t seem to make progress. It’s a shame isn’t it, ironically it is supposed to herald rapid prototyping.
I was hoping it would become part of the GCAP family, but there no way Italy would agree to that I guess.
It seems that they launched a subsidiary in Europe.yes, it is abit quiet. I think you have to just watch their website and aerospace website. Some news just popped from time to time but that ground break that we all want to hear.
Vaporware will always remain Vaporware however much faith you put in them.
One number out. I thought the RAF had the M346 on its wish list, not the M345.
Agreed the M345 is like a baby hawk, but with the main wings set in the mid wing position. The M346 is the newer style of advanced trainer, even though it first flew nearly a year before the M345. The M345 is supposed to be an alternative to a the basic turboprop trainers, whilst the M346 is the lead-in fighter trainer. Italy operates both aircraft for these specific roles. The M346 is the Hawk T2 equivalent.
Do you think a joint programme for a GCAP-ified M346 would make a good replacement?
As in, add in some of the virtual cockpit features and use a similar combat simulation system, so that it is a good lead-in to flying Tempest.
You could probably leave some F35 stuff in as well, it doesn’t have to be a perfect match.
I think there is a case for a lightweight version of GCAP, which could have meet the Swedish requirements. Where it could also in a two seat configuration be used as the advanced lead in trainer. There is no substitute from training with the real kit. As good a simulated kit is, it still does not have the same fidelity as using the real thing, especially when used in conjunction with live weapons.
Be careful what you wish for. A basic M346 is around $25m . Nigeria bought the fighter attack version with radar & weapons plus other bits & that doubled the price to $50m. Six to nine basic M346 would supplement the existing T2 Hawk & get RAF training out of immediate trouble.
Yes, the Leonardo M346 has to be the obvious choice
Yep, its an impressive little aircraft and would easily fulfill the Hawks secondary role as a light attack aircraft.
Hope so, if its good enough for the Poles and Israelis, its good enough for us.
Wherever we go it mustn’t be American.
Not the brightest of comments…lacking in dimension concerning Anglo-American operational inter-operability right across the whole military gambit.
American defence companies will have to make a better offer to Europe. Europe maybe ready to spend more on defence they won’t automatically buy American as previously it was understood you bought their wider support eg Belgium buying American aircraft fighters not a euro offer.
And whatever the US buys it must not be British. Can’t wait to see all of those contracts the German and French defense companies will give to British companies. Try living in the real world.
Hawk T1 retired from service.
No, cut
To be fair the last T1s were problematic and once it was found there was no off the shelf reasonable priced collision warning system that could be fitted they were doomed as they needed one and there was no way anyone would fund development of a bespoke collision warning system for an aircraft near the end of their lives… the big issue is that instead of replacing them they don’t seem to have bothered.. the plan was always to replace them in the early 2030s with a new aircraft…when they got rid of them in the early 2020s they should have ordered replacements.. infact they could have easily ordered more T2s and kept the line running…but all in all they really need about 70-80 basic jet trainers.
Could the retired trainers be given to Ukraine as a possible light hit and run /tank buster ,I know they can be made to a point for combat but I’m not clued up on this matter,any help from fellow contributors, thanks 😉 😀 👍
would need so much defensive aids kits and modern avionics to be viable. drones can do alot of that now anyway, why waste precious aircrew
To be honest, seeing as they already have F-16 and Mirage (do they have this yet?), I think a 3rd aircraft type would be too much a strain on them. Better to just provide more F-16s and Mirages.
I believe there’s some Hawk 200s on the market they tent to pack a punch .
Please UK Gov re-kindle the British defence industry. Spend the money in the UK and retain IP and profits. How low have we sunk that we cannot even produce a basic training aircraft. As per the Defence Select Cttee last week, can we please at least kick start Aeralis.
Our “leader” Keir I see is too busy cosying up to the EU/Franco/German/Italian industry to fight for UK industry.
I’m all for that, however what are the options available, ideally yesterday? We have the skills but the final numbers aren’t worth it to the companies who can actually produce.
BAE are done with Hawk, and should, unless we completely screw up, have Typhoon, Tempest and F-35 orders for decades.
AERALIS is PowerPoint-ware.
The Italians have a trainer (M346) that will support Typhoon, Tempest and F-35. It has a hot production line, has been in service for a few years and is built by a company with a decent UK presence. Order 48, become the largest operator and see what Leonardo is willing to build and assemble in the UK.
By the time we pay to come up with an alternative or fund AERALIS enough we could have a dozen M346 in service.
OK I have said this more than once..
Sadly the Hawk T2 has had its day with Maintenance issues and lack of airframe to train our pilots we need to buy an aircraft now.
SOUTH KOREAN TA50
is the way to go.
62 aircraft TA50
20 aircraft FA50
have 2 training bases RAF Brawdy and RAF valley.
Do up Brawdy first and have the first 22 TA50 and 10 FA50s going there with a simulator.
Then do up Raf Valley .. again 22 and 20
+ 12 red arrows based at Valley
I’m sure the government could do a great deal with the South Koreans.
These aircraft could also have a secondary duty’s as ground attack or close air support.
So each base has 2 reserve squadrons doing basic fast jet training and then tactical weapons training.. so the step to front line typhoons or F35s is easier.
The Bae Hawk T.2 is a good aircraft
Sounds good
I agree with you 100% The Korean T-50B that the Golden Eagles display team would be the best choice. Especially it’s speed and other attributes.
Agree. Lots in use already so we can see their effectiveness.. Indonesia, Thailand, Poland, Iraq, now Philippines (just lost one in combat) and Malaysia.
But would it seem like too “down-market” by the Brits? 🤔😄
Whatever is bought, in this new world of drone and cruise munitions, is there a role for trainers to operate as sort of second tier air defence aircraft – being cued onto drones and being able to shoot them down if/when they get past the primary Typhoon/ F35 defences?
Given the UK are partnering with the Italians on GCAP/Tempest, it might be worthwhile going with the Aermacchi M-345. Reason being, any fast jet trainer may have to align with preparing pilots for the Tempest (and maybe the F-35 if we can still trust the Americans to reliably supply parts and upgrades!). As good as the KAI T-50 is, it might not make strategic sense for the UK to go with a manufacturer that is based in the Asia-Pacific region (i.e. China’s back yard), a European ally closer to home who is partnering on other projects may be a safer bet for reliable supply of parts and upgrades.
You can make a good argument for either aircraft. The Italian M-345/6 family ties in with supporting a Tempest partner and has a European radar, but has American engines. The T-50 or any derivative have improved performance but has American radar and engines. The EJ200 was considered in the original design so is a possibility, if the tranche 1 Typhoons are being cannibalised could the radar be recycled ? If you have more faith in the US long term as a partner then the M-345/6, if not then a longer term program for a modified T-50, South Korea also seem more flexible as far as IP is concerned from the Polish experience. On the other hand, if you want to add an incentive for Turkey to buy into Typhoon, why not a EJ200 derived Hürjet, but licensed/kit production.