NATO Secretary General in Oslo: “no lasting peace’ if tyranny prevails over freedom”.
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg stressed the importance of supporting Ukraine, including with more weapons, in a speech to the Annual Conference of the Norwegian Confederation of Enterprises in Oslo on Thursday, 5 January 2023.
“Weapons are – in fact – the way to peace”, said Mr. Stoltenberg, adding: “there will be no lasting peace if oppression and tyranny win over freedom and democracy”.
But it is not only this pattern that did not surprise us. At NATO, we also had precise intelligence about the build-up of Russian forces along the border and their concrete plans. We made this information public and warned about a possible invasion for months. We repeatedly made significant political and diplomatic efforts to prevent war. But President Putin still chose to attack.
NATO was prepared.
Since 2014, we have carried out the largest restructuring of the alliance since the end of the Cold War. Deployed more NATO troops in our member countries. Increased the readiness of our forces. Established new defence domains, such as cyber. And not least, NATO Allies have been investing more in defence. In addition, Finland and Sweden are on their way to join NATO.
Hours after the invasion, we activated our defence plans and significantly increased our military presence, from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea. We now have even more soldiers on high alert. This is not to provoke a conflict, but to prevent the war in Ukraine from becoming a full-blown war between NATO and Russia. And to remove any room for misunderstandings and misjudgements in Moscow about our ability and willingness to defend NATO territory. Strong defence secures peace.
NATO and NATO countries also make significant contributions to Ukraine. Norway is one of the countries that contributes. The military support Norway provides makes a difference and is noticed. If Putin wins in Ukraine, it will be a tragedy for the Ukrainians. But it is also dangerous for us. The message to him and other authoritarian leaders will be that if they use military force, they will get what they want. It will make us more vulnerable. There will be no lasting peace if oppression and tyranny win over freedom and democracy.”
Further to the above, Sky News is reporting that Wallace has today offered UKr 10 Challenger II tanks. As if we could spare any….
Hmmm…if true, wonder whether BW could conceivably have formulated a plan to liquidate current inventory, in order to force (participation in?) future MBT development?? 🤔😳 If so, somewhat breathtaking in audacity. Alternatively, could simply be inventory reduction of MBTs not slated for upgrade.
We are only looking to offer up a single squadron – thats not exactly liquidating the entire inventory.
True enough for Round 1. However, if this evolves into a 15 Round title fight… Difficult to prevent Ukrainians, involved in an existential battle for survival, from requesting ever more support.
Easily. With over 200 I believe still around and just 2 Type 56 Regiments planned going forward down from current 3 ( Plus RWY ) there will be surplus.
We bought 386, currently declare only 227 in-service (following several defence cuts) and are only rebuilding 148 to CR3 standard. We have plenty spare!
Interesting commentary last night on radio 4. In that there are no good decisions. The only way out of this mess is a Ukrainian victory. Putin and his orc army cannot be allowed to win. Therefore we have to ramp up our military-industtial base to supply Ukraine with everything it is asking for. Including tanks and advanced air defence systems. 40 Marder, 50 Bradley and an undisclosed number of AMX10RCs are not going to turn the tide of battle. Rest assured Russia’s spring and summer fighting season attacks will involve hundreds of thousands of conscripted troops and thousands of rusty… Read more »
In summary a NATO strategy of massively ramping up our military-industtial base to supply Ukraine and ourselves with replacements is needed now.
We face Russia down now or we face a combined Russia/Chinese axis in the 2030s. We either prepare and reinvigorate our military-industtial base now including increasing our military power, resilience and attritional reserves now or we face conflict with Russia and China in the 2030s without the capability for a drawn out high intensity war.
👍👍
The only CR1 and Chieftain Tanks left in the UK are in Museums and with private collectors, hardly enough to make a useful force I’d imagine.
Bravo, agree completely w/ post. Did not realize UK maintained reserves of C1 and Chieftains; amazing foresight by Army.
I’d be surprised if we did tbh I thought they all went to oman
There were lots of Chieftain Tanks of different marks exported to various countries in the Middle East over the years, still must be plenty of survivors dotted about, but CR1 was only exported (gifted) to Jordan.
There used to be a Chieftain in a pub car park near Chattenden. A team of ex army mechanics kept it in working nick and it was used in films and documetaries. It even had a disabled Gimpy on the turret. There must be others around
Jordan paid for the CR1s (but not a lot!).
Oman bought 38 x CR2s, the only export order. We sold nearly all CR1s to Jordan.
Interesting, wonder whether Oman will choose to upgrade to CR3 ultimately, or alternatively, a different MBT?
I am sure the US will do a good deal when the time comes with selling a late mark Abrams or the slighter lighter and much newer GDLS MFP (Mobile Protected Firepower) system. I can’t see them buying CR3 somehow.
I’m not aware that we do. If so, I’d like to know where they’ve been stashed all these years.
We have reserve CHII MBT at Ashchurch which are not in the forward fleet with the 3 Armoured Regiments, at Armour Centre, ATDU, and no doubt a scattering of older Tanks as gate guardians and as targets on ranges.
Foresight from the Army? You joking!
I’m not even sure if the LTF or the RWY has any either or uses those from the frontline regiments.
HOw many CH2 have Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land got? How far on are they with the upgrade?
I’ve no idea, just recall the upgrade is painfully slow.
Daniele, we don’t keep obsolete kit. There would be no advantage and it would cost too much as well as using up what little AFV storage we have, particularly since AVSD Ludgershall closed all those years ago.
CH (which is the official army abbreviation for Chieftain of course, not Challenger) was largely disposed of in 2 tranches – in the mid 80s (when CR1 came in) and mid 90s (when CR2 came in).
CR1 largely disposed of by sale to Jordan in the early 2000s – a few around (non-active list) as recovery hulks, gate guardians, targets (as you say).
Thanks Graham, as I suspected.
I’ve heard rumours via my research over the years, some 1st hand, of various “Strategic Reserves” of older stuff but I’ve not put much stock into any of it.
One source even told me of stored V bombers! 😆
Occasionally stuff slips through the net but not complete equipments. It was always said that, years ago, Donnington had a shed (very big shed) and no-one knew where the keys were.
Finally in the mid-80s (I think) someone forced open the main door to satisfy curiosity and found a number of grease-filled barrels with Brown Bess muskets inside – could be an urban myth though!
Funnily enough, I’ve heard of this shed at Donnington. Parts hace been redeveloped now into the DFC.
Stafford is another one.
We don’t keep obsolete equipment. It would give us no advantage and would cost a fortune to maintain large old fleets.
Half the Chieftains (ISD 1967) were scrapped in the early 80s (from 1983) when CR1 came in – and we operated a mixed CH/CR1 fleet. The other half of the CH fleet were scrapped in the mid 90s when CR2 came in.
CR1 fleet disposed of, largely to Jordan, in the early 2000s.
Actually, rather thought that to be the case, hence, the implicit note of surprise in my answer. Good to have the definitive answer. 👍
In general we do not keep old kit – we certainly do not keep kit that has been declared ‘Obsolete’. I was Equipment Support Manager for all tanks (less CR2) and tank variants – around 20 years ago – During that time I disposed of the last few Chieftains (about 3 gun tanks in R&D roles and the CHAVRE and CHAVLB as they were being replaced by Titan/Trojan) and all the CR1s. The talk today is of gifting one squadron of CR2s (that is 14 tanks). No-one is talking of gifting 80 CR2s. Even if we did, we would not… Read more »
You are perhaps in a singularly well situated position, due to previous experience, to answer the following hypothetical:
How long would you predict a force of 148 CR3s would be able to remain a credible force, if currently substituted for UKR MBTs, all other conditions being equal? Care to speculate re identical force of Abrams? LeClercs? 🤔 (The time estimate may well not vary substantially, regardless of design.)
I was the MoD’s Equipment Support Manager for Tank Derivatives and also the recently retired CR1 in 2002-3. An ESM manages the fleet, arranges modifications, controls the spares supply chain, sources Special Tools & Test Equipment and plans and executes Base Overhauls etc. Not sure that totally qualifies me to answer the question but I’ll have a go. Duty rumour is that Sunak and the MoD is considering gifting 10 CR2s to the UA. A strange number as a (British tank) squadron is 14 tanks and you would need a few additional tanks too. We are not of course looking… Read more »
Thank you for the detailed answer; attempted to frame the hypothetical to answer two questions 1.) To assess possible UK performance, after CR2 retrofit, against Russian tank forces in a future scenario similar to current UKR conflict, and 2.) To assess possible UKR performance, utilizing CR3 and UKR crews and tactics against Russian formations. Your answer has provided some useful guidance. Believe implicitly that there will be continuing UKR requests for armo(u)r from any/all NATO sources. The original request may be kept to squadron level, but, inevitably, it will not end there. Would anticipate that all surplus UK tanks and… Read more »
Many thanks. I gave as good an answer as I could but would be interested to know what hobby wargamers could come up with- they apparently have quite good algorithms and look-up tables. I think it a fair posssibility that UK would withdraw from contemplating offering UKR a squadron of CR2 if the Leo2 user community step up to the plate – on the grounds that ammn is easier to source for Leo2 and there is a perception that Leo2 is the most relaible western tank and to minimise a wide variety of tank types. Conversely it would be a… Read more »
Potentially, RUSi simulations/analyses? 🤔
Always thought realistic wargaming scenarios would be a slam dunk success in the gaming market, and perhaps training for the next generation of tacticians. 😳
RUSI